significantly on a percentage basis. celg down 5%. amgen down better than 3%. biogen's off better than 10%. dow off 19. nasdaq taking it on the chin because of those biotechs. >> marks seem to be stable at a lower level than will do it for this edition of "power lunch" >> here comes "street signs" right now. welcome to "street signs," everybody. it is 2:00 p.m. on wall street, 11:00 a.m. on the west coast. the nasdaq having its worst day in two months. >> stocks which led the tech rally like netflix, tesla, priceline getting whacked. high flyers getting grounded. nasdaq, sheila dharmarajan. >> guys, the good news we are seeing a little bit of buying happening. bouncing off session lows. nonetheless, the nasdaq still getting hit very hard today.

down nearly 1.5%. more than 90% of the nasdaq 100 early in the red. we breached the 50-day moving average. that's an important technical level. on pace for the worst day since february 3rd. you guys talked about the big theme that we are seeing today, leaders to laggards. traders telling me, buying for the high flying momentum names is drying up. tesla, priceline, netflix, all in the red. also speaking of high flyers, have to talk about the bioteches. getting hit hard for a second session in a row. biotech index, in fact, down nearly 7% since friday. i do want to point out mixed market action, though, when it comes to large cap tech names. google is down, leading the index down the most. facebook, amazon in the red. nice support from apple and microsoft, both names are hanging on to gains. so what does this mean? how do you put this into perspective? when i talked to traders, there's concern about today's action. they say it's never a good sign when you see names that lead the

index stall, sputter out. but, look, it's important to keep all of this in perspective. remember biotech up 65% last year. we're still talking about double digit gains for this year. and as far tesla, despite the weakness today, this stock is still up over 40% this year. >> very good points there. sha thank you. david nelson. you know, as we've been seeing here, high flyers are the higher valuation names, aren't there? bioteches including, talk more about those in a second, down big. but also seeing gains in through the defensive stocks, like p&g, at&t, ibm. do you think this is the start of a whole sale rotation within stocks? >> it started friday with the news out of gilead when the committee sent a letter to the ceo of gilead. seeing it across the board in high flyers. i think this is a gut check for investors.

you have to ask yourself a question, did i buy this stock because the fundamentals demanded it, or was i just involved because of the price action because some of these are expensive stocks. you mentioned facebook, probably 67 times forward earnings, amazon, i can't count that high. tesla, probably not much of any earnings for a while in that company. so i think it is a gut check. i don't know if it's going extrapolate into more weakness. i think the broad market is going to be okay here. >> all right. well, david, you know, listen, if we continue to see this rotation, what do you think's going to happen? where would you want to be positioned? >> two names, apple and even microsoft. microsoft is a surprise to me. i bought it, usually after i buy a stock it goes down. apple is a low multiple name. i think investors woke up today, saw what happened to biotech and said to themselves, you know what? my gosh, how much am i paying

for growth? if it happened to bios, why couldn't it happen to my high flyers. they hit the sell butten. how do you want to follow the herd here. >> there's a valuation for everything. you're just seeing profit taking. growth hasn't stopped in biotech but the names are expensive. i think the more serious issue for biotech is not just valuation. just the fact the house subcommittee sent a letter to the ceo, even if it means nothing, and all they do is brow-beat the ceo into maybe making some sort of concession, that's bad news for biotech. i think some of the selling is deserved. >> all right. david nelson, a real pleasure. as mentioned, biotech stocks see serious weakness. the biotech index, down 7% of the past two trading sessions. according to our screen, 16 bioteches down more than 10% just this month. is it a sign the biotech boom is starting to roll over?

want to bring in contributor barbara ryan, and matt melei. highlighting the story with us for a while. barbara, if you like bioteches, you can't lump them taking, they're all very, very different, but if you like the group as a whole, are you happen were about the declines in. >> obviously not. certainly the pricing of biologics has long been debated, and i think this public shaming of gilead over their hepatitis c drug $84,000 price tag, obviously is at the heart of this particular sell-off. but as was mentioned earlier, these have been massive stocks. and i might say they've been underpinned by real innovation and strong fundamentals. >> but, barbara, to brian's point if froth is coming out of what was a red-hot sector, maybe there are buying opportunities, particular stocks, that you could maybe name with good fundamentals that are now out there for people to get in at a better price. >> yeah, absolutely.

i think in you look -- gilead will probably be in the crosshairs of this news flow. so that probably, you know, will be challenged at best. but i think companies like celg, very strong fundamentals, regeneron, and i add lower risk, lower multiple pharmaceutical companies like pfizer, like a merck, and some of distributors look a cardinal health or express scripts. >> are there any sectors of biotech -- you named companies, we appreciate that -- that you feel are particularly at risk here? given the waxman letter about gilead? >> absolutely. this is just punctuates the point that investors always have about the sustainability of pricing. and i think at the end of the day, it's still going to be a free market. and the best way to price is to innovate. and we are seeing a lot of innovation. i think this scare, if you will

just puts some balance in the equation. we've seen multiples come down. and that correction is probably healthy and should happen. but i think the tone going forward will still be driven by strong fundamentals. >> what dow you in will happen to the biotech sector from here, matt. >> well, it could see a little bit more weakness. even before gilead got the letter from the congressman on friday, the group was already starting to roll over a little bit. not bad but it was underperforming the market. down 4%, 5%. so, i don't know if it that has to do with the ipo thing that jim cramer talked about this morning but people starting to pull out of the group and putting it into the apples and microsofts of the worlded. new new news, the group that has rallied as massively as it has, it's up 100% since december 2012, 200% since the lows in 2011, when you get much of a rally with a small pullback,

that gives people to add leverage to positions and gets other people not to short it. shorts would provide buying power on the way down. >> matt, matt, let me jump in for a second, more than 15 years of doing this, i can't remember a time when bioteches led the market. i find it hard to believe that bioteches would drag the market down. are they just being used as a scapegoat? >> i definitely agree, because, again, that issue i talked about with people -- adding leverage to high flying positions moves it to some other stocks. if the market is going to have a major correction of any kind, i think would happen because of credit issues out of china and europe because of russia, not because of the biotech group. this biotech group could go lower, it could go down 20 ps%, 25%, i'm not calling that, but it could cause a major correction in the broader stock

market. >> thank you. herb greenberg back here at mother ship here with us on set. two big stories here. stories you've watched for a long time. we do listen to you and your thoughts. herbalife and nu skin. carl icahn, something that he said got your wheels turning. take a listen first. >> there are people that feel that, you know that promises are made in marketing but that's not herbalife's marketing. that's the marketing of distributors and distributors get paid to bring in other distributors. but i think that all -- that has been cleaned up dramatically in the last few years. >> right then and there, when carl said distributors get paid to bring in other distributors, that's one point and then he said ushg think that's been cleaned up. you first have to ask, what has been cleaned up why did something have to be cleaned up how do we know it's been fully cleaned up? more importantly, look at what the ftc is looking at here,

looking exactly what the carl said, distributors getting paid to bring in other distributors than in and of itself is okay. the question is, how much is selling product, distributors paid to bring in other distributo distributors. they say, a pyramid scheme, when distributors promise consumer large profits based primarily on the recruiting of others. key word, primarily. so as we get into this entire investigation, there's so much more here than what carl seems to think is just not a big deal. what is a retail sale? what is internal consumption? these are the kind of things the ftc will be looking at when they really try to figure out whether this is not a ponzi scheme but a pyramid scheme. >> you feel like icahn stepped on his foot? >> for -- for -- for a large -- very large shareholder, five

members of the board he should know everything about this company. i would think he would have been very careful how he worded it. >> do you think icahn's careful about how he words anything. >> no. >> no. shooting from the hip. >> include what he would be saying about me. >> bottom line for you, nothing changes for the better or necessarily for the worst even, it's almost like status quo, ftc investigation conditions. >> why did the three directors leave the company? he named three of his people went on the board. why isn't bill steerups on the board? what's going on here? he keeps talking about reputation, reputation. yes, nothing has changed. >> i mean he could have meant if i sign you up and you sell stuff, i'll get a piece of it. >> sure. >> not that i'm going to get paid directly for bringing you in. and the legal difference between those two comments is so gigantic, one's okay, one's not. >> right. that's in what the economic analysis will either show or not show. >> talking of investigations,

let's talk about nu skin as well. nu skin is soaring because china fined nu skin for illegal product sales. why is the stock higher? the fine is not as bad as some were expecting. however, what's the however? >> the but here is that -- look, the company -- in their 10k, they released last week, they said, we're look likely to get fined. analysts said it's a slap on the wrist. that was expected. what we don't know, what i think people are misinterpreting here we don't know how this company's business will be impacted by other changes. but they're telling you, they're changing the way they do business. they're having to pay close or attention to as anyone else doing business. >> china will increase regulation over the sales sector. they'll be much more under scrutiny. >> let's see how the business is grow, let's see if they have o promotional meetings, see if they did all of the things this get the new dealers and the new

business people in the system there. >> couldn't have said it better. >> thank you so much, herb greenberg. breaking out the crystal ball to see how we will buy and sell houses 25 yeared from now. will everything be done online? will bidding war be history? bold predictions, next. later on, do you think you're old? you may not believe what age is considered now over the hill in silicon valley. whatever happened to valuing experience?

process of selling and buying a home can be one of life's most stressful events. diana olick breaking out the crystal ball to see what the process might look like 25 years from now. robots? rosy the robot showing you the house? >> maybe. despite what happened during the housing crash, americans continue to buy and sell homes but how they do that has already changed dramatically in just the last decade with technology and the internet. as we look ahead, 25 years, we wonder, what's next? what will get us to that happy world "sold." almost as fast as the internet itself, real estate websites flooded the marketplace. showcasing brokering, auctioning, and upgrading your home. it almost seems as if there's not enough space in the space for all of these companies, so we brought together ceos of some of the biggest in a battle for

the future. zillow markets listings for agents, auction.com is an online auction site, and realigy owns some of the biggest bricks and plort mortar brokerages. >> it's an infrequent transaction, expensivexpensive, emotional, complex. parts of the transaction will be automated. >> people are looking for a better way to buy and sell. transparent process. think about everybody gets the last look in a bidding competition. so, through the internet is very good at putting buyers and sellers together. and so everybody really gets to compete if a transparent manner and gets the last chance to click the mouse to be the winning bidder. >> we see more predictive modelinging, an index determines when ready to buy, long before you've announced your intention. we see homes doing the same thing. a home will sort of fit the mold before it's actually known to

the market that it's for sale. the agent's job is to partner those two. >> reporter: while the three disagree on the best way to sell a home, all say agents will still be part of the deal. technology from websites to apps and drones flying over our neighborhoods will assist the buyer, but that buyer will also always want to walk through a house before they buy it, and will usually want someone else to negotiate the sale. one thing that will shape future buyers is already speeding up movement in the housing mark is information. the housing crash created a cottage information of information, prices, sales, that's just the beginning. 25 years from now, buyers will have an easier time of finding what they want with all of this information literally at their fingertips. i can't tell you how many reportize get on a daily basis, every type of data. more than i want. >> stick around. let's see what a panel of

realtors thinks about this. joining us from coast to coast, greg lynn, san francisco-based realtor with sotheby's international, david condaman. and brian lewis. greg, i want to start with you this is in your best interest to be around in 25 years' time. >> i hope so. >> we don't want to take your career away from you. why do you believe realtors will not go the same way as travel agents? >> as some speakers said, it's emotional and complex transaction. people need to understand why prices move the way they do. five years ago technology companies tried, put the buy it now button on zillow and nobody pushed the button. there's more consulttation necessary. and people that practice deep down to understand the values are the ones who have the most value in the transaction. and we realtors have always provided that service. >> greg, i mean, it's

interesting when you look at real estate industry, it one of the few that has not really changed its cost or pricing structure. stock brokers are gone, it was $100 to trade stocks 20 years ago, now $8.99 online. how has the real estate model withstood change? >> it's about who's advising you. so much information out there, as you said. it's global, local, mobile. so much information. but what do buyers do upon that? when you're making a real is state investment you're perhaps making the greatest investment of your life or for the next couple of years and consumers need to know that they're buying low, selling high. you can't get that from a website. >> i think having a button that says buy it now might be oversimplifying it. >> right. >> brian, why can't there be a site that matches the buyers with the sellers, you get an attorney to do all of the fine print and use all of this data that diana was telling us about to get information you need in

this world? we've become as a consumer aused to analyzing that data. we're not stupid. >> here's why, this is a human endeavor. there's psychology involved. there are emotions involved. you've got to get to that altar with the right person if you will, the right home. and it's important to make sure you're going down the aisle with the right one. it's emotionals, guys. about you need a great ambassador at het the helm who has great service. in 25 years, my robot and your robot will meet with a drone. >> already there are drones that can go into houses. >> we have them in my company and use them but we're on it. we're not ludites. you have got to have the right ambassador, right person giving you the right service, because that is irreplaceable. >> but david, how that is going to differentiate?

any real estate agent will say they're hands on. if you have every possible piece of information -- we have seen the self seller out there more since the crash -- how are you going to differentiate yourself and be the standout from the next guy? >> no question that real estate is getting small somewhere micromarkets are hard to discern as far as where prices are going. and so, an example i can give you, i sold a house last week, two competing offers $400,000 difference in price. and knowing the market as well as i did, allowed me to hold on and wait for a significantly better offer. so the fact that we know the market better is going to be more important to people in the future. we're seeing so many people make decisions that are based on information from the internet that's not complete. you know, as much as i love zillow and triala, their data is not up to date as the information that i have. and i think people are going to want realtors to discern that

information and take it so they can make an informed decision. >> absolutely. >> that's the same in 25 years as it is today. >> absolutely. i'd like to add that this is not a normal real estate market, at least where i practice in san francisco. >> absolutely. >> inventory is at dramatically low, historically low levels. >> greg, greg, 40%, according to trulia of your listing, not you personally, but the san francisco area, above $1 million. my question is, who are buying all of these homes? i know this, 40% of the population are not internet millionaires. >> right. >> there's no question that you're seeing a lot of people set on the sidelines 2007, '8, '9, '10, waited to see signs the market was better, the stock market was better and money became available again. new titaned regulations on financing have changed, and they're starting to loosen finally. so more money is out there. people are deciding that interest rates are never 4% again in our lifetime and this is our one chance.

>> right. >> that's where those people are coming in the market. >> money is cheap, inventory is supertight. technology will put you on third base but it takes an agent to see you home. >> maybe your costs have to come down. let's say you and your guys, your know-how, context and everything, greg, is needed but maybe what needs to justify the high commission that you charge. >> i don't think that our clients charge a high commission. i wanted to talk about the inventory, which i know is at very low levels in new york and san francisco. but our model may be changing a bit here. we may be on a trend where the old school way of thinking is buyers, agents, sellers, agent. we have nothing to sell. inventory, there's 20 buyers for every listing available. so there's caliber of agents becoming matchmakers. kind of throwing out the old model and finding properties for our own clients that are not available. so it's a very different level of -- very different level of advice and skill.

i spend 30% of my day trying to find properties not on the market. >> i've gotten mailings in the mail, please sell your house. i get a couple every week. >> it works, too. 3 of my last 4 sales why that way. without the house being on the multiple listing service. >> fascinating and great discussion. thank you. still ahead, scary situation in chicago. train jumps a track at o'hare. three weeks later, malaysia says the missing plane is gone. will they ever find the wreckage? apple's plan to take on netflix.

i'm scott cohn in the cnbc newsroom. word from federal court in new york the jury in the criminal trial of five former madoff employee has reached a verdict. that verdict is about to be read in federal court. we'll bring it to you. a stunningly quick verdict, considering the complexity of the case. it's been going on since october, five-month trial in the case of daniel, madoff's assistant and training supervisor, also an account

supervisor, and computer programmers. all charged with falsifying records that allowed the massive scheme to continue there are a total of 33 counts here, not all 5 defendants charged in each count. this is a complicated verdict, working through it. we'll get it to you as soon as we can. a verdict reached in the trial of five former madoff employees. >> thank you very much, scott cohn. the malaysian government says the missing plane is most likely in the indian ocean. moments ago a pinger locator from the u.s. navy took off from jfk airport here in new york on its way to australia. phil lebeau, what is the likelihood they will find the wreckage? >> i think there's a pretty good likelihood they'll find some wreckage. whether or not they'll find the data recorder, that's up in the air. the wreckage, likely hundreds of miles, maybe thousands of miles, from where the plane touched down.

here's what the malaysian prime minister said today that touched off a swirl of new questions where flight 370 went down. >> it is therefore, with deep sadness and regret, that i must inform you that according to this new data, life in mh 370 ended in the southern indian ocean. >> that new data comes from the british firm inmar set, where they've been tracking satellite data, using their latest calculations and analysis points to the locate being in the south indian ocean and they've relaid that data to the malaysian government. the latest convinces the government to make that decision. when you look at what's going on now in the searches that are taking place, southwest of perth, 1500 miles southwest of

perth, they have found potential debris, including over the last couple of days, even the last 24 hours, potential debris but not positively identified any of the debris as coming from flight 370. meanwhile, the u.s. navy's pinger locator is on its way to perth from jfk. the pinger locator is a companied by ten private contractors, two navy personnel as well. they will go to assist in putting that locator closer to where they might be able to find the flight data recorder. keep in mind, guys, the ping that comes from the flight data recorder, only goes for 35 days. you've got maybe 15, 20 days at the outside left where it's going to be emitting some type of signal that might be picked up. it may be that we don't see the flight data recorder anytime soon. remember, guys, with air france, took a couple of years to find the flight data recorder. but this is the news today, that malaysia says that's the area based on the latest date from from inmar sit. >> still ahead, what is too old

for silicon valley? numbers are scary. >> and unbelievable secret e-mails that show how steve jobs and google's eric schmidt may have rigged the hiring game in silicon valley, ahead as well.

happy monday, everybody. straight to street talk. all of the news and views you can use. first up, we'll start with national general holdings corps. a mouthful of a name but seeing a nice upswing of 3% after the initiated to outperform at fbr capital. >> added to top picks list. target is 21 bucks. so that's about a 50% jump, folks, from where the stock is now. insurance company headquarters here in new york. listed on the nasdaq february 20th. some of the first analyst' comment tear that we're getting on the name. >> take a look at boston scientific. shares upgraded to outperform from market perform at bernstein. >> not helping but overall market's down today. bernstein raised target from 15 bucks to 12. they see upside of 17%. well-known medical device company. launch of a new drug designed to treat heart diseases should help

the stock. >> tech company upgraded to buy from neutral, but stock also not moving. >> the whole market's down right now. staern raised their target to 30% to $126. current stock price, 109. upside seen there. they think above-average net income growth. net income up 62% in the same quarter one year ago. >> first interstate bank system. both shares on the rise as after upgra upgrade. >> not sure we talked about montana-based company. target up 16% to the current of 31.50. dividend yelled, 2.4%. stock up 50% over the past 12 months. >> under the radar name, star surgical, shares climbing after upgrade at william blair. >> another 4%. a name we talked about two weeks ago. >> it is. >> the company designs and manufactur

manufacturers, eye lenses. $20.75, stock at 17.34. your focus today is on coca-cola on the technicals. j.c. o'hara, pat dorsi. all right, pat, winter green, winter green investment, saying compensation at coke too high. a, do you agree? b, do you care when it comes to the stock? >> it's high, but so is every ceo's pay in america. so, what's new? it's kind of hard to pillarry them for that. we know the coke brand well, obviously but coke's secret sauce, the direct store distribution system. bottlers replace the bottles on the shelves unlike using third parties which gets them in touch with the store, enables better placement. 16 times earnings over 3% yield, emerging market consumption running at one-tenth the levels of u.s., plenty of upside.

>> for charts, upside also seen in the charts for coca-cola? >> j.c.? okay. we seem to have a problem. >> i think the charts left him speechless. that's clear. j.c., your mike is not working. we'll get you back on, talk about coca-cola soon. now you're there, apparently. >> can you hear me now? >> you were playing a mime earlier. >> jump right into the charts. the chart is very intimidating. if you take a step back, look at two-year picture, we see a giant head and shoulders pattern forming. right there, that's going to invite mini bears into the name. two shoulders around 41, head at 43, neck line at 37. stock is trading right above the neck line, down 7% this year. so you are going to attract value guys into this name. i warn you, if you break down, i'd be cautious on the name. take a look at pepsi, february 19th, pepsi had a false breakdown, value guys jumped

back in. very bearish pattern but be careful to short this name. >> watch out for the bearish head and shoulders. maybe he's just messing with us. thank you very much for talking on coca-cola. >> check out the online edition of talking numbers. apple's plan to take on netflix. plus, what age do you considered washed up in silicon valley? outrageous answer next. first, kelly and bill what are you looking at. >> looking at a lot of things. all over the market downturn and comeback. should you be worried about the biotech stocks selling off again today? we'll look at whether this is a major red flag for the market or whether it's a group that's rallied too far, too fast. >> sanctions against russia from the u.s. and its allies hurting russian president putin? and are they enough to prevent him from escalating the crisis in ukraine.

coming up on "closing bell."

markets right now, the nasdaq underperformer, not down

as much as it had been. down 1.91%. netflix, keurig, worst performern performerners. one of last performers last week, sim man tick, one of the best today. >> apple in talks with nbc's parent company, comcast to create a streaming tv service. that story in the "wall street journal" today. it would use an apple set top box with comcast's broadband. let's bring in dan ernst on this one. why do you feel that with regards to this idea it's hard to see it as being disruptive or transformative for apple? >> yeah, i have a lot of doubts about this service. first talk about apple for a second. wherever the new category is, that apple has coming out this year, a lot of analysts come on and say it's going to be a tv, a watch, a square watch, round watch, a bigger screen phone, i have high conviction that apple

will expand the portfolio this year, cook has beened aamant about that. if not this year, it's an issue. i have high conviction they will have a new product category, expanded portfolio this year. 12 times earnings and 2.5% dividend yield, you're not paying a premium, in fact a discount for the opportunity that they do surprise again. >> right now, netflix is on apple tv, i've got to assume that netflix pays something to be there. is your read that apple may try to, you know, go after netflix or just increase their direct access, technology like the deal netflix made with comcast? >> yeah, i don't think it's any of those things. i think that what the journal laid out today is a little bit pie in the sky. i think a lot of people would like to do a encompassing full tv service using the internet. apple as a prime candidate to do that.

i don't think it happens in the way they laid out. but you hit the nail on the head. should apple launch a tv service with their little box one of the first downloaded apps besides the tv service will be netflix. even on amazon's kindle, where you get free prime streaming number one app that's not a video game is netflix. so this would have nominal or zero impact, maybe even help netflix in the long run. so, probably this will dip here and from the scare of last week on bandwith costs there's an opportunity. the stock's not exactly cheap but the number one drive of netflix stock is subscriber growth. the number one driver of subgrowth in netflix is content and seasonal alty. they have that in spades in the march quarter. even as this is happening looking at a company in front of a very strong seasonal quarter and a lot of new content. so, i'm not too worried about netflix here. we have a hold on the stock.

but today's dip looks overdone. >> got to leave it there, dan, thank you very much for joining us. he's got a hold on netflix and buy on apple. washed up at 35. the story behind a botox boom in silicon valley. >> one thing american are eating less of.

as you can see, the s&p is more red than green at this stage. we've got up there the top gainer, semantic, management change there's. it's up by 4%. the real story today is the nasdaq, the big underperformer with the momentum stocks, you know, like netflix, tesla, gmc, priceline, all moving to the downside sharply. >> 32 people hurt when a subway train in chicago's o'hare crashed past the end of the line. ended actually up the escalators. it happened before 3:00 a.m. when the transfer area was nearly deserted. ever been to o'hare and taken the blue line downtown, the area's packed during the day. the motor man is being interviewed, ntsb investigating. imagine a star chamber, cable of sorts, where the

biggest plays in silicon valley like steve jobs and eric schmidt agreed not steal each other's high-tech workers. no need to imagine. it actually happened. josh lipton breaking news. >> started with steve schmidt entering into an alleged secret agreement promising not to poach each other's employees. now we have obtained court documents showing that the alleged tech wage conspiracy could actually expand to include microsoft, oracle, ibm, and comcast, the parent company of cnbc. now one prominent silicon valley executive is disassociating herself from this controversy. cnbc has learned facebook's sheryl sandberg filed a declaration with the court on friday of last week that pins the scheme specifically on two google executives. sandberg saying she was contacted by the executives who expressed concern about what was described as a perceived rate at which facebook could hire employees from going.

. sandberg refused to cooperate. now, tech companies deny any kind of conspiracy. apple points out between 2005 and 2009 it's hiring of tech workers jumped 50% and wages rose. so where is the conspiracy they ask? guys, back to you. >> these days most of us don't consider 40 to be old hopefully. your next guest says the next guest has 40 isn't just old, it's over the hill. he wrote about this called "the brutal ageism of tech: years of experience, plenty of talent, completely obsolete." excellent article. it's a sad state of affairs when i understand that, you know, guys are coding at 11 years old and by 20 they have nine years experience but where is the value of leadership, the lessons of failure?

does experience matter anymore? >> it's really depressing. part of this is just the economics of the venture capital industry where these guys, even the best of them fail eight, nine times out of ten and they realize they have to have these enormous returns to sustain their funds over time. where are they going to go look for the 1,000x returns? it has to be a black swan. it gets knew the story about youth. what are the chances the 35-year-old, 40-year-old guy working at google for ten years is the black swan? probably very low. you project your ambitions and dreams onto this 22-year-old who has never done anything. you can manage these pockets whereas you have trouble doing it with a 40-year-old. >> i'm going to flip this over and ask the question from the point of view of the older person, the post-35-year-old here. to what degree do they maybe not want to work in that kind of environment because there are all these 20 somethings with never guns and ping-pong tables

and lying around on bean bags and that kind of thing? >> look, clearly the environment can be a little alienating. i'm 37. i hung out with a lot of these guys on multiple trips to silicon valley. i don't know that i would want to spend all day every day with them. the fact is if you're a 40-year-old programmer, you know, you need to work and there are only so many very large companies that are more staid and more established -- >> sit tight for a second. we have breaking news. more on madoff. scott cohen. >> we are now hearing reports from the courthouse that the five form he madoff employees have been found guilty of at least one count of conspiracy. it's a lengthy verdict but the conspiracy count is really that from which everything else flows. they were accused of conspireing to falsify the books and records. allowing the ponzi scheme to go on. these employees had all said they didn't know what was going on. they essentially testified they were dupes of bernie madoff, but

the joury has found otherwise i convicting these five employees. all found guilty of conspiracy. again, as we said at the outset, this is a lengthy verdict. there's really 31 counts to be decided here, not all the defendants are accused in every count, but the key count of conspiracy the reports are saying now, all five are convicted. >> thank you very much for the breaking news there, scott cohen. back to our discussion about the youth obsessed silicon valley. herb, you're the grown-up at this table. >> allegedly. >> allegedly. >> i think it's ridiculous to think that people who have perspective and experience shouldn't be in that pool, and when people are starting to talk about 40-year-olds, my goodness. the less experience you are, the

less likely you are to be hamstrung by things you already know which might pull you back from taking the kind of risk that some people will be willing to take. >> it's not just what you know. you have a mortgage, kids that may be going to college soon. my dad lost his job at 44. it sucked. it was terrible. it's hard to find a new job. sorry, dad, if you watch the show. >> which is unfortunate because for those of us of a certain age who might want to be in the entrepreneurial world, you have to unless you're independently wealthy, you can't do it because as my friends say, unless you want to eat ramen noodles, you won't get paid until you potentially have the big payoff. >> it's manifesting in all kind of unfortunate by-products. all these, i don't know, 40 somethings who are going to get things like botox and wrinkle lifts and neck lifts and stuff like that to try to look younger. >> correct. i talked to a doctor, a cosmetic surgeon in san francisco.

he's the world's second leading dispenser of botox. he said over the last 20 years his clientele has become progressively younger. he routinely sees 30 and 40-year-old getting botox around the mouth, between the eyes. >> does it make a difference? >> they feel like they have to stand up in a room full of 25-year-olds and made all the worse by the attire is very casual. so your neck is very exposed and not be seen as the old guy. >> you have a wonderful neck, herb. nothing to worry about. >> jan koom of what's app is 38 disprove our entire thesis. jon fortt just obliterated your entire piece. >> exactly, exactly. clearly, there are exceptions but if you look at the overall numbers the skew is decidedly youthful. >> thank you. more breaking news on the other side of this break.

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i'm scott cohen in the cnbc newsroom. five former employees, five former top lieutenants of bernie madoff convicted of conspiracy in the massive ponzi scheme. a conspiracy so commit security fraud. the verdicts continue to pour out from federal court in manhattan, but again the first criminal trial from the massive ponzi scream ending in a guilty verdict. >> scott cohen with that breaking news on madoff. that's big news. thank you very much. >> indeed it is. that is it for "street signs." we're going to continue this breaking news on "the closing

bell." we're also watching the markets here. the dow is only down by just a little smidge here, but, of course, the underperformer we've been watching is the nasdaq. not down by as much as it was earlier on in the day. >> and obviously the sector to watch is biotech. that is your sector to watch. and welcome to "the closing bell" on this monday as we look to finish out the first quarter. i'm kelly evans at the new york stock exchange. >> we are coming back here. i'm bill griffeth. the real carnage is at the nasdaq as brian was just saying. momentum stocks like netflix getting hammered today. biotech is another problem right now. that high-flying sector. ever since the government is going after gilead sciences last week, questioning the pricing of one of their hepatitis drugs, that seemed to take the airut