good morning. it is 11:00 p.m. here and 11:00 a.m. on wall street and this is squawk box live.

♪ >> welcome to squawk allealley. join us with henry. it's great to see you this morning. >> great to be here. >> john ford is here. we will talk apple. that is apple the online demand for iphone 6s plus has been exceptionally strong. we are working to catch up as quickly as we can. no hard numbers here on. >> i would say this is bad for anybody who thought apple can't grow iphone at the end of the year. last year we did have the hard number of 4 million units. maybe apple didn't put that out this time because they have got this iphone upgrade plan now. i got online at 3:00 a.m.

eastern and reserved a slot to go in and get the phones. but i don't know if they technically dount that as a pre-order. what's not clear is how much stronger this is versus last year considering you have got all of china in the pre-order period as well. you have got this two week lag between the start of the pre-order and actual delivery so apple has more time to figure out what to deliver where. that should be good. >> agreed. apple is gradually turning the iphone into an annuity where you sign up every year this move where you can buy it directly from them and you can buy a new one from them. that's something that most hardware buyers never would have

thought of. the more they can do that, the better shape they're in long term and the big thing that has changed for apple over the last several years which is hugely positive for them is that android has run into all sorts of trouble. it will be tough for people to switch. >> you are talking about they have compressed the upgrade cycle. if thaw cey can get you buying phone from them as opposed to a carrier. i go to apple for the big ticket and it almost turns it into a subscription. we are very early days and it's very expensive so i don't think there's going to be a big rush to that but they are clearly moving to that. >> two big questions. one the wall street journal had this piece that said four or five year ace go people upgraded

their phones every 18 months. i think the reason why people upgraded 18 months back four or five years ago is the carriers let you do it, early upgrades because they were trying to incentivize people. now apple is adding this upgrade program to try to combat that. we will see if that works. it has turned into the edge versus 3d touch. which innovation will be more significant. apple is arguele 3d touch is going be more significant. >> what's the bull argument on the edge? aside from getting -- >> a beautiful phone. it's about more than the hardware. it would take a lot for me to switch off of this because it would be such a pain. >> disruptive to your life. >> i have got all of these services that i'm used to. i tried to switch once.

it's very frustrating to learn how to use a well designed phone. it's going the take a lot more than curved beautiful edges. >> both things are about doing things faster. the argument from samsung is you will be able to get to your aps and contacts faster because they're on the edge. >> do you think that after microsoft, after ibm, even now android making moves to make it easier to work on apple's' co-system that all the rivals are saying the party's at apple's house and we know it? >> microsoft has office on android. it's not that clear to me. samsung still doing quite well. they're losing this current cycle. they have an opportunity to make up ground. >> why it could fall 50% further. the decent probably isn't over.

shares could fall much further the company's culture draw scrutiny. a point by point rebuttal ending with this. integrity, professionalism and more. we urge you to issue a correction. hi has been at barron's for as long as i can remember. >> it's not their numbers in china are crazy high. it's not possible. we're supposed to think oh, now we have got to worry about the numbers. effectively it could be a co-las

sal fraud. i don't think that it was made particularly strongly. >> we're in the range of look, are things getting better or worse? anybody can make that argument. but the accounting piece? that's a big swing. >> it is kind of a lose lose situation from where i sit. i mean, they made what looked to me some good points. we're below the ipo price. the authors are arguing it could go lower and the company is saying you have got factual issues.

a lot of people could argue that it's overvalued anyway. >> i know you played that. >> we have this sound. in the end it really does come down to whether or not you trust them. >> strus. and transparency. we are working with my company and the team. you have a 30,000 smart people. if you work with the smart people, you have got to be transparent. you have got to make sure they trust you and you trust them. and making sure that everybody have the same vision and value. i don't care if you trust me or don't trust me but i care my team trust me. and my customers trust us. if you can do that, whether shareholder trust me or not, not important. they trust the good result. >> there is the issue of trust but then there is complexity.

>> the chinese accounting for subsidiaries, it is tremendously complex. that is a part that he has raised. that is nothing new. we have been watching that for 15 years. you do have to look at the company. jack ma has tremendous integrity from what anybody has seen. any company you have to trust their accounting. for barron's to be right, you're talking about a colossal fraud from the ground up and i think that's highly unlikely. not impossible but highly unlikely and the market's not that bothered by it. everyone thought they are overstating revenues by 50%. >> yahoo! by the way, hasn't had a two handle absent that flash crash in over two years. we will see what happens with

yahoo!. google stepping up its game in driverless cars. phil lebeau joins us with more. hey phil. >> this is a big deal with what google is doing. the new head of the google car program will be john craft check. he joins google after previously being one of the top executives at true car. but where many people are familiar with john is from his term as the head of hyundai north america from 2006 to 2013 time frame and during his tenure, they had fantastic growth in the united states. prior to that he worked as one of the product chiefs at ford. so he is steeped in knowledge in the auto industry and the importance of this move for google is two-fold. one they bring a true car guy into the program. and that's not a knock against chris who is in charge of google's auto program. chris is a technical person.

he approaches things in terms of where the future is. john comes into this as an auto industry veteran and more importantly he is a believer in the disruptive power of automous drive vehicles. it's unclear if google wants to license technology, licensing thenology or get into the licensing of automobiles but john krafcik is a very important part of the map and strategy. >> fill lebeau on a really interesting wrinkle. we have heard from google. they didn't seem interested in going very vertical on this thing. >> yeah. i'm not sure what to make of this announcement. it would be different to me if tesla had brought john in. he's a guy i associate with

executing very well and getting things done. it's not exactly clear what they will execute on. great for him to be in the stable. i wonder how long he lasts there and does it depend on how quickly they are able to pull the trigger? >> i thought phil nailed it at the end. are they going to license technology and build these cars that will run the neighborhood? are the bubble cars going to grow into real cars on the highways? what does that mean? we're talking decade long full-time tram time frames here. we're looking so far out and speculative at this point that it's almost not worthying about. >> i'm thinking about the goldman, $800 target. there is some big options in those calls right? >> absolutely. and full credit to google for doing what so many american

corporations are afraid to do which is take in cash flow and investing in cool new stuff. we celebrate amazon for that. google gets full points for doing it. that doesn't mean they work out and it certainly doesn't mean they work out at any near term time frame that most shareholders will be focused on. it will be years. it's the same with apple. we're looking at five, ten, 15 years down the road. >> the fact that we have this alphabet situation that allows them to bring in c suite quality people but they could sit them on the shelf. sometimes those people just cycle out without anything happening. sometimes they actually get things done. >> great to be here. >> business insider checking in on the markets today. we will be in this range for a

little bit. dow is only down 50 points. when we come back, apple's statement. what can we learn from customers and how they're trading in their old phone? a top iphone reseller will join us plus the risk of connected cars. what we can do to make cars unhackable and what can drones do? jane wells has the defense industry's next steps for unmanned flight. squawk alley will be right back. mornings. wonderful, crazy mornings.

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to breaking news with symphony. >> a number of people see it as arriving. keeping all e-mail exchanges between all banks. and banks have to hand over duplicate encryption keys to multiple partners. so it reaches packed with bags. >> as car makers are quickly learning, just about any new car can be hacked.

jeep recalled more than a million after a jeep cherokee was hacked and driven into a ditch. as the industry moves towards more connected cars and self-driving cars, is enough being done in terms of cyber security? which today announced is forming a new cyber security making recommendation about how to keep things secure. is it as basic as making sure that there's no inbound communication. what really these be done here? seems like we're having trouble here with the audio to chris young right now. so not sure if we will be able to fix that. >> it's obviously a real concern. we had the mobile eye on the

set. >> and intel says the more complicated and more capable your technology system is inside the car, the more vulnerable it is. a lot of these car makers are selling on that particular point. chris, can you hear us? >> i can. >> great. and i can hear you as well. thanks so much for joining us. back to that initial question. what is the basic approach that automakers need to take to keep these levels secure? it's one thing if your computer crashes and another if your car crashes and you're inside it. >> absolutely right. a car is like driving around with a bunch of different smart phones or computers all put together in one system.

that's what we saw with some of the recent security reports is that we need to think about the car as a system and we need to be able to protect the entire system of components. >> how many things might be electronically controlled or able to be influenced by data from the internet? what's neat eneeded here? to say this car has passed an inspection and is hack proof enough? how is a consumer going be able to know and choose a secure car? >> it's going to be a collective effort. we do believe that standards will be required here. driving around is different than having a pc or a smart phone but we do expect that ultimately the companies that come together to deliver the car are the same

ones that will deliver you a safe driving experience. >> when you go to a mechanic, mechanics have capabilities to read what's going on inside your car software-wise. a lot of car makers have built in the ability to accept software updates. those are potential points of weakness. what do we do about that? >> they can be points of weakness but they are also points of strength. the ability to update a car and for example, gives you the same ability to patch software vulnerability. you do want to be able to upgrade a car on the fly or overnight. you do want the car to be able to be serviced remotely. that's one way in which the car manufacturer is going to be able to keep people safe as new components come online. we do need to be able to communicate with the vehicle so to speak while they're sleeping in the evening or while they're

being plugged in at night. where do cars fit? are tli any challenges to someone that has that kind of engineering background. they have points of access and weakness just as you said a few minutes ago. if you think about comparing the carver sus a bank, they are very different. what we do know is we can protect. with ecan put together a system that allows us to stop or protect bad things from happening. we can make sure we have good detection mechanisms and we do need ways to fix the problems after the fact. it's a simple frame work that auto manufacturers and all the different companies like intel come together to provide components of the car need to

make sure we're working tot to deliver a good safe security system. it's kind of what we laid out. >> a couple questions quickly to close. how far are we from a time when enough times on the road are vulnerable enough for this to be a real problem and on the other side of that, how close are we to this standard of being able to feel secure about which cars are actually okay? >> i think right now you have a lot of work happening in bodies and security organizations. a lot of work happening already and part of what you're seeing is starting to public the capabilities to the marketplace. so that's already happening. i expect that over the next several quarters and certainly over the next several years you will see a lot happening and a

lot more published about how we're securing cars that are ultimately connected to the internet. >> i take it there are enough connected cars already for us to worry. thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> and from unmanned cars to unmanned planes. the multiple way that drones are expanding. up next with our own. plus we're counting down to the close of trading in europe. stocks in the red but off their lows of the morning. we will be right back. opportunities aren't always obvious. sometimes they just drop in. cme group can help you navigate risks and capture opportunities. we enable you to reach global markets and drive forward with broader possibilities. cme group: how the world advances.

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nothing is changing warfare in the 21st century more than unmanned aircraft. what to do about drones? jane wells is in la. jane? >> hey john. there is a political dog fight to be the eyes in the skies for the military between lockheed martin and northard.

fought to keep it alive. it is manned. it's got a pilot in there. recon figuring the global hawk. his name is i kid you not, mick jaggers claims it will make it better able to evolve with new technology. >> it's going to make it a plug and talk. you will have an intelligence community that has a requirement. you will be able to plug in a sensor and have it talk back to the needs of the intelligence community. >> global hawk is way too complex to deliver packages for amazon.

>> to requirement so to have a right seat. to make the long hauls. so we could replace the first officer with the competing. >> okay. so you still have two pilots but one would be on the ground. who knows. later on power lunch, what's taking so long to have one operator operate multiple drones? how many stories have you two mick jaggers in them? >> i literally laughed outloud. but i wouldn't want to be on the marketing team that has to sell that one pilot plane. >> maybe for cargo. >> thanks so much jane. >> you know, the european

continues coming through better than people are expecting today. top gainers are the main commercial broadcaster within france with news that the french government is not going to reinstate the demand. as we move into the evening period, the main focus becomes what is happening in greece. 2:00 this afternoon new york time there's a big tv debate between those that would be the next prime minister and this guy is beginning to breakthrough. the evangelist who was dismissed as the -- as an outside caretaker of the new democracy conservative opposition. but he now appears to be

breaking through. >> as he said earlier this morning. when we come back measuring i known demand by how many apple products are being traded in. we will talk to the top apple reseller in a moment. there's a difference when you trade with fidelity. one you won't find anywhere else. one-second trade execution. guaranteed. did you see it? in one second, he made a trade, we looked for the best price, and the trade went through. do the other guys guarantee that? didn't think so.

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donald trump continues to rise in the poles. he is in a statistical dead heat in a match up with hillary clinton. clinton beating trump by just three points, 46 to 43%. a same sex couple has received a marriage license in kentucky, the first to be issued since clerk kim davis returned to work. this over davis's objection. she has questioned whether any licenses issued are valid without her authorization.

one protester is seen wear inin mask of the hundred garn prime minister over a barbed wire fence. that's our news update. now back to squawk alley. and presidential candidates. hello again, aman. >> a little about that national poll, now more bad news in this monoyumtd university poll among republican presidential voters. in new hampshire, this one bad news for establishment political candidates all together. the headline, jeb bush has dropped down to a tie for fifth

place. donald trump maintaining a healthy lead in the new hampshire republican presidential primary race at 28%. dr. ben carson jumping to 17% for second place and rounding out the field, john kasich at 11%, ted cruz at 8%, and jeb bush not on the top group. jeb is tied with carly. establishment candidates again having trouble in this race carl? >> you could almost flip this upside down and a few months ago you would have thought that's how the standings would have read. >> nobody saw this coming. we had the summer of trump. you start to get the feeling that republican primary voters might be looking for an alternative to trump. they like the fact that he's not a politician. they like the fact that he's an outsider and that he tells it

like it is but they maybe don't like trump personally. >> thank you for that fascinating numbers. they will be for a while, i imagine. as we have been mentioning. first weekend record when the new iphones go on sale september 25. they also introduced an upgrade program to compete with carriers and resellers. chris sullivan is the ceo of ga zel. good morning to you. >> good morning. >> you have pretty good very recent data in terms of trade-ins. you're looking at spikes that are noticeable right? >> yeah. and this is sour krour christma holiday season. we see a tremendous spike in activity for trade-ins and this year is no different. this year we're seeing really strong performance in sub categories as well.

the iphone is up nearly 10 x our normal volumes but more interesting to us is the apple tv, which they made some substantial changes in the offering there. our apple tv trade-ins are 24 times what a normal week is. so clearly the customers out there are seeing some interest in the apple tv as well. >> im wondering how much we can read into your trade-in numbers. how do they tend to compare a spike in trade-ins. does that tend to translate into stronger sales for apple? is it a sale of intent? does that mean i'm looking to upgrade? >> it absolutely is. i assume that a lot of the folks, carriers are seeing an increase in trade-in as well. it should correlate very tightly. more than 50% of people trade in phones at the time we buy a new

one. when we started, less than 5%, about 1% traded their phones. it is now part and parcel of the process. >> can you over time, what are you seeing in terms of the trade in value as people get rid of those old phones the carriers are no longer offering subsidies so the transparnency of the vale of the phone is higher than ever. they understand that people are pag 700, $800 for their phones. they are offering monthly installment plans but they are still paying the full value so we have to pay a competitive price to get the last generation phone from your hands into our hands. it's attractive. for a six plus we're paying up

to $385 and nearly $200 for a 5s for instance. so, the value is pretty strong. >> when you see trade ins up, that's an indication that we are seeing more people trading up from a samsung to an apple iphone. we saw that last year and we are seeing that again this year. it's a little early to quantify. clearly there continues to be a trend from samsung to iphone in the average smart phone user's thinking. there is obviously a very strong dedicated brand folks who

appreciate the sam sung. we are seeing this year and last year a trend towards iphone for samsung. >> it will help rejuvenate that category. do people trade them in with as much frequency. >> they do trade them in. it has a longer use cycle. so phones tend to be trading in the 18 to 24 months on average. that's where the median trade-in window is. for tablets we see that closer 24 to 30 months. trade in for tablets were about three to four times so we still see the activity level there not

quite as i said at apple tv and iphone levels. at what point might they start to depress people's willingness to buy new ones? >> we see with the subsidies going away. >> it's a meaningful number. historically when we purchased these phones we sold them overseas. but in 2014, november of 2014, gazelle launched a certified pre-owned ecommerce offering. over 30% of our revenue. there's clearly an appetite in

the u.s. to buy used phones and i think it's largely because of the cost of ownership of a smart phone with the sub dis gone away. we will still sell the rest of the phones to overseas and emerging markets. >> you guys were in a good place at least for a while here. it's going to be there. >> and a russian internet search provider, think of it as the google of russia. this after multiple reports that russia's anti-competition watch dog is found google in violation of competition law in that country. those shares up by about 6 to 7% because of that particular

story. google is possible in violation. multiple violations. back over to you. >> we will watch that. when we come back, alphabet or google chairman delivering tough love in a surprising way. we will fill in you. but first, what are you watching? >> rain options are functioning. the new bits are up and running. what may not be up and running is the notion of the third rail. i think raising rates is the feds' third rail. coming back after the break. at mfs investment management, we believe active management can protect capital long term. active management can tap global insights. active management can take calculated risks. active management can seek to outperform. because active investment management isn't reactive.

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imagine loving your numbers. there's only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. >> the battle over alibaba is big. and we're going to talk to the fund manager who went short china earlier this year. you won't be surprised to hear that he's up 11% year to date. and then trading the fed. we will break down the areas and the stocks to avoid. a decade ago to launch digital music service you probably would have enlisted a handful of elite

taste makers. today you're much better off building a smart system that can learn from the real world. what actual listeners will like next and help you predict who and where the next adele might be. as a bonus it's much less elitist. much more democratic, allowing everyone to discover the next big star and now through the individual preferences of a select few. he sounds like a musical expert. >> i think it's a great quote. imagine all that has gone on between artists and djs trying to get on the air. that's gone. >> why is he writing it? he should build it. >> let's get to the cme group. >> good morning, carl. before we start on anything, we all know that it's fed thursday, whether they normalize or not, topic of discussion everywhere. not only here at the exchange, here in the u.s., but the globe. everybody's talking about it.

but in the end i only see two issues that are truly worth talking about. janet yellen, what will they pick for a birthday cake. in a room filled with mostly academics, bankers that really aren't necessarily the type of history that is shown that they understand entrepreneurialism are all the dynamics. there needs to be rules. if this then this. second point, if a quarter to a half point increase in rates low rate zero interest policy.

there are a lot of issues. the reason there are subsidies because when you give something to an entity, taking it away is very difficult. mr. greenspan was on squawkbox still fiddling on the roof when it comes to entitlements. it's the third rail of politics, nobody wants to touch it but then again it's all third rail, okay. instead of mortgages, anybody out there tried to get a mortgage recently? here's the issue. the mortgage business is pretty much now a government business so when you go in you might go to your bank but the bank is basically an agent of the government. do you think that's going back any time soon? i don't think so. basically it's a government subsidy, and i don't see us going back to the old days. student loans, all the issues you heard. think we're going back to every student worrying about financing whether it's parents, going back any time soon? no. you think the low-skilled jobs of the past which really were a great thing when we didn't have all the global labor contributing to lower labor costs, well, what happens? those jobs aren't coming back with respect to being able to be

in the middle class. first time home buyers, i don't see them coming back and entitlements we discussed so in the end what we're looking atted is the third rail of the fed is raising rates because raising rates is going to hurt a bit. it's going to hurt growth. does that mean you shouldn't do it? no, but in the end this normalization is taking money out of pockets, out of pockets of those who own financial assets. carl, back to you. >> all right. thank you very much, rick santelli. dreaming of a luxury cruise that doubles as one of the largest tech conferences of the year? salesforce has you covered when we come back. [ male announcer ] whether it takes 200,000 parts, ♪ 800,000 hours of supercomputing time, 3 million lines of code, 40,000 sets of eyes, or a million sleepless nights. whether it's building the world's most advanced satellite, the space station, or the next leap in unmanned systems.

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the rates for hotel rooms have jumped more than 90% versus the prior week according to hotel tonight. that's just because dreamforce is the biggest tech conference of the year in san francisco with attendance. it's going to hill a record 150,000 this year. that could be bad news for traffic but sales force telling me they are working closely with the city to minimize disruption to the residents as much as possible. so what is though the point of this big party? sales force wants to promote its platform and bring together customers, partners, developers. the ceo mark benioff wants to be the fastest enterprise software company to hit 10 billion in sales. events like this could help the company reach that goal. now, this year's lineup of tech notables, you're going to see mt. 's satya nadell and among others and dreamforce is not about the text force but music acts. foo fighters will be playing this year as well. carl, back to you. >> we just played "ever long"

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alley. "i'm courtney reagan at the nasdaq. we've got the composite down about half a percent today. apple is moving higher, and we know is has an outside influence on a lot of the indices but it's not enough to move the composite or nasdaq 100 higher, at least not at this point in the session. we are back to a market seeing stocks move on news and other fundamentals rather than just everything rising or everything falling. check out shares of yahoo! biggest loser in the nasdaq 100, falling after the barron's article, the negative article on alibaba and remember yahoo! does have a big stake there. that's why we're seeing a big drop there. if you move on and look at shares of baidu, of course, the chinese internet company, and as we hear more and more headlines out of china, we are seeing continued weakness in these shares today, down 32% in just the last three months. chips are a little bit split here. we're seeing downward movement in marvel after the company said that it's investigating into

the -- the audit committee is investigating its accounting practice and other chip-makers are doing very well and leading the nasdaq 100. >> nbc has just said that schwarzenegger is the new host of "the apprentice" on nbc. twitter is already going crazy. jane wells has to say hastra la vista, baby. >> the new you're fired. >> so much to learn from him, how to stop an apocalypse and win as a republican running for office, so many things. >> let's get over to mcc and "the half." >> brilliant even though they are my bosses. i think schwarzenegger will be great. welcome to "the halftime report" and i'm michelle caruso-cabrera in for scott wapner. we have stefly link, downtown josh brown and pete najarian and joining us on set is andrew rk