volatility, we didn't talk about it, it spiked back up. and surprises how much was in the market place. just under 14% and now popped over 16%. look for pot ash, i think it is. >> thanks for watching. "mad money" is up next. to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere. my job is to help you find it. "mad money" starts now. hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money." welcome to cramerica. other people want to make friends. i'm just trying to save you money. my job isn't just to entertain but to educate and teach you. call me at 1-800-743-cnbc. or tweet me @jimcramer. now you see why a fed rate hike. stocks in a ton of industries go down even as a few go higher.

being against a rate hike and accepting it's not inevitability are two very different things. we need to understand the difference. while you may not like it, you need to start accepting it. first, he get that we can't have ultralow rates forever, even if they're good for the stock market for the duration. eventually too much money chases too few goods and we get inflation. inflation is pernicious. there are reasons we've never had ultralow rates forever. it has to do with the inevitable debasement of our money and dramatic decline in our purchasing power. the fed has two mandates, promote an environment for an flourishing economy, and the second to avoid inflation so people can't keep up with the rising price of goods. i certainly am not in favor of turbo charged inflation. however i am concerned that the first mandate might be upended by higher rates.

right now, after that barn burner of an employment number last friday, it's difficult to fret over job losses. i've been worried about the precariousness of our trading partners like china. but china is back in bull market mode, even if the strength is in consumers and not industrial-related. the data out of europe is pretty strong, that i follow. we know a lot of the strength comes from weaker euro. companies that sell in europe rows are taking share from american competitors. that's decidedly bad. but to worry about china or europe, that seems wrong. there will be negative reverberations in emerging markets. that's a given. there's always people caught up in that old trade. that's one reason i'm not crazy about a rate hike. but these ramifications are inevitable and you'll hear about

them every day for weeks on end. most important, i believe the dollar will soar on a rate hike, causing the exports of our companies to decline dramatically versus overseas competitors. we'll have playoffs as manufacturers can't keep up, as we open borders versus every other country. they seem to be offset right now by additions throughout the rest of the economy. why, with all this gloom, do i believe that a rate hike has to happen? because neither the stock market nor earnings matter when it comes to these things. sooner or later it has to happen. the goal in this show is to help you find a bull market somewhere, anywhere, even when the environment gets more difficult and it will get more difficult when the fed starts raising. when the fed is lowering rates, there are so many great groups to own that the only real issue is to figure out their relative valuation and which will go up faster. some groups move too far ahead, others play catch-up, back and

forth. when rates go higher, lots of sectors go down. don't listen to what people tell you, they're just too young. initially, until the economy can handle the hike, you're going to get a lot of losers. beware of stocks around 3%. that 3% yield will be pitted not against the first rate hike, which will be minuscule, but the second or third or fourth. they will be immediately talked about in addition to the second one, the moment the fed hikes. it won't really matter that the fed says they're one and done or one and wait. in january we'll get another rate hike. that's just how it goes. again, i'm older, and i've seen it. the same people clamoring for rate hikes will be more imboldened, not less. i care about stocks, i'll tell you it's bad for stocks, but it's going to happen. if you're buying a stock with a 3% yield thinking it will

protect you, others disagree, mainly the big hoarders who will sell those stocks and wait for higher rates for long term treasuries. the older stocks say they're peeking. they don't go up with terrific sales numbers anymore because the big money is betting they've peaked already. housing is booming in a lot of people as people realize it's better to buy than rent. but credit is still hard to get. unless you don't need it, i think owning stocks in autos and housing will be a mistake. third, healthcare stocks usually do well when the economy is slowing. remember, the big money is taking its cue from the fed, which is saying things are accelerating, or of course they wouldn't tighten at all. portfolio managers will listen.

retail and restaurants will fare okay because of higher wage growth and retail warm weather. the public has more money to spend because of higher wages. however, because of higher wage costs that precipitated the fed rate hike to begin with, it will take a long time for the positive of to take home. what can we buy when the hikes start? we saw certain stocks, mainly financials, not go down that much, because institutions want to own them so badly that they don't come in. my trust was itching to buy some of those stocks. the banks will make more money off your deposits when rates go up. circle back to the highest growth stocks because so much money is dedicated to finding high growth names that can maintain strength despite a rate hike. when their stocks come down on days like today, they want to buy them. think f.a.n.g. then one last group to think

about, the most important of all, even as i haven't talked about it in relation to rate hike. these companies will feel the heat from activists. that's where the real value will be felt. m&a won't be squelched by this. there will be a lot of potential takeover. big companies know the cheap money days are about to end. they have to take advantage of them. the same way you have to borrow money to buy a house before the fed starts tightening. weyerhaeuser's transaction was announced this very morning. it's important to beat the fed to the punch. i like weyerhaeuser here. canadian pacific, rumors it might try to take over forred for southern. or how about all those things about apache that might be acquired. bottom of those fit this bill that i'm describing. here's my bottom line.

i'm not saying i'm sanguine about a right hike. far from it. however, it is inevitable for december. i know what happens when the first set of rate hikes begin and it's not good for the vast majority of stocks despite what people tell you. they're people who tend to be younger and have not lived through it. that's what you saw today. all i want is for you to know we've been through this cycle many times before and you better get used to it. rocky in north dakota. >> caller: yeah, hello, mr. c. first of all, i want to thank you and stephanie who i see as the prince and princess grace when it comes to taking care of us little ones. t corp. when it comes to that merger with niagara bank. buy more on the dip, sell, or hold? >> i miss stephanie. jack moore is now my co--portfolio manager on action alerts. i've worked for years with steph

even. i talked to her all the time. i like key. i like key because i think beth moody is doing a good job. when beth made that acquisition, and you know beth moody's been on our show a lot, people hated it. i think it's an opportunity to get into the bank cheaper than you would if she hadn't made that acquisition. how about mike in my home state of new jersey. mike, mike, mike. >> caller: booyah, a three-ring bar number and bailey booyah. >> that was a high spirited booyah. that was an eagles win over cowboys into i can' s booyah. >> i saw a nice bump in dupont. i want this for five years plus in my retirement account. i would like to add more. would now be a good time? >> no. i think you can wait. i don't particularly like this market after this big, big, big

employment number, we're probably in for a couple of days of rough stuff. why don't you wait. dupont is up in a straight line. 63, 64 is fine. mike in new york. >> caller: booyah, jim, thanks for all your hard work, an honor and a pleasure to speak with you. >> thank you. >> caller: i've been watching bb&t stock in a while as a play on rising interest rates with the fed. it's been up quite a bit over the last a couple of weeks. do you think there's still some upside here? >> when i was frantically trying to find bank stocks to buy, for my travel trust, this is a great opportunity to buy bb&t. i did just what you did, it was up so much. i've got to wait for a pullback. that pullback may never come. all right. it's time to accept that a rate hike is happening. you can't fight the inevitable. now that you know what it can do to the stock market, you have to get used to it. it's just going to happen, everybody.

on "mad money" tonight, one of the hottest cybersecurity names in the game, but is it getting dragged down by competitors? i have the ceo. i know many of you like the stock. i'm revealing what's killing companies ahead of the holiday season. plus the name behind many of those prepaid gift and debit cards that you saw near the cash register. but can black hawk network hang in in the digital age? i've got the exclusive. stick with cramer. >> announcer: don't miss a second of "mad money." follow @jimcramer on twitter. have a question? tweet cramer, #madtweets. send jim an e-mail to madmoney@cnbc.com or give us a call at 1-800-743-cnbc. miss something? head to madmoney.cnbc.com.

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whenever we get a nasty market pullback like we did today, i think about coming back to companies riding powerful secular trends to see if they're worth picking up in the weakness. take blackhawk, the leading global distributor of prepaid

cards and gift cards, serving hundreds of brands and running incentive and loyalty programs for business partners. the retail space may be a tad soft right now, more on that later, but the gift card industry has been growing by leaps and bounds. you better believe gift cards will be the number one present going into the holidays. they create gift card to let you buy actual publicly traded stocks including household name companies. how about blackhawk itself? the stock has been roaring higher to the point where it's almost double. when they last reported in mid-october, even though the company blew away their earnings estimates, the guidance for the next quarter was more conservative than expected. the stock got slammed, falling 10% in a single session. since then blackhawk has coming roaring back to the point where it's an only a couple of bucks below its all time highs. will it keep climbing or should

we be worried about the weakness in retail in general? let's go to bill tauscher, with just to "mad money." >> good to see you. >> ever since you were spun off from safeway a couple of years ago, every time you report, there's this bizarre drop and then you come right back. is it because you're so transparent you actually say things like, we weren't happy with this, this was a little short? because i have to tell you, overall the totality of the call was very good. but i was shocked it went down 10%. >> jeez, i hoped you were going to explain it to me. i was shocked. we were pleased with where we are with our secular results and business forces. it was a bit of a shock. i can't quite decide whether i should just quit giving earnings calls. maybe that's the thing. >> in the call, something you mentioned might happen, i want

to talk about it for our viewers. gift cards to give people stuff and etfs. how will that work? >> we created a prepaid card, goes on a specialty rack for gift cards. we've got it testing now in 1500 stores. we did a lot of consumer research. you go to a rack, buy the card, give the money at point of sale like you do for a gift card. that card is now loaded. it directs you to a website, a stockpile website, ingenious website, it allows you to register in a matter of a couple of minutes. that $50 worth of stock you get to buy. if you think about stocks, a lot of them are high priced, a lot of people don't know how to buy stocks or buying $800 stocks doesn't work. buying partial allows us to use a prepaid card. the research told us two things.

but 30, 40% of the people are really uncomfortable with trading the stock market, don't know how to do it, can't figure it out. there is a big self-use component here. we think a whole bunch of people will get comfortable with stocks because of what we're providing. and then the second one is, gifts for kids or family members, younger people, to teach them about stock. >> this is what i'm thinking about. >> i'm going to give my kid a gift of apple stock. i feel a lot better that i gave him stock and taught him a lesson. >> that's what i was thinking. for thanksgiving i like to send my kids cards, itunes or whatever. i was thinking, i should put in one of yours, but i'm a not where the test is. >> no, it's only 1500 stores. and that's just a test. we'll get it going sometime this year into next year. >> this is your big season. >> it is. >> is it also the big season in

places like germany? >> oh, yeah. just about everywhere except for the far east. >> because i know you're starting to move big into china. >> yeah. >> why are your ebitda, your numbers, so much -- why do you make so much less in europe than here? >> part of it is because around the world, we're behind the curve than we are in the u.s. we're just not asth mature. we went for a long time investing, and in any business, you go over the curve in profitability and the marginal profitability is much greater. i think internationally we'll see profitability gains outpainfou outpacing the u.s.? >> how is the loyalty thing going? >> we made this big move to go by companies basically based on a trend, just like gift cards are a bigger portion of gifting, gift cards are now becoming a bigger portion of incentives. >> right.

>> a perfect example of that is these loyalty programs for points, credit cards, airlines. you can name all the places, even your own company, where did you get points. and those points you go somewhere to get rewards. it used to be merchandise or travel. every year gift cards become a bigger portion of what people choose. it was a natural place for us. we're the biggest in gift cards. we have all these scale in economies. if we went and got really quality companies, we could build synergies that are natural with our gift card production and see growth, because it is a growing industry. and it's working wonderfully. >> is the irs going to shut it down? i know right now they're okay. is there a certain level where the irs will get involved? >> no, all the gift cards given for employee incentive programs, it's all tax-compliant. our systems do all of that. >> who is powering the technology? samsung? >> if you're talking about the

incentive programs, that's all our platforms. if you're talking about the technology to pay for things, apple pay, samsung pay, android pay, we're basically putting ourselves inside those payment vehicles, so you can store cards and pay with them. >> this is how you'll stay one step ahead of the posse. >> that's right. >> visa, mastercard will tell you it's going to take time to get out of plastic. >> it will. >> i sure hope the test succeeds and i can give my kids some apple so they can hold it rather than some itunes so they can spend it. thank you so much, bill, good to see you. blackhawk holding. h.a.w.k. stay with cramer. coming up, much of the biotech cohort in the crossfire, including horizon pharma. after giving wall street a peek

at its revenue, is it time for a second opinion? cramer has the exclusive with its ceo.

all right, wait. now, suddenly people get their retails weak and costs are heading higher. now we realize it's bad for business when it's so warm outside in november. now we understand that a higher

minimum wage hurts the bottom line of retailers and restaurants, especially since their earnings have been inflated by lower labor costs. now we get our heads around the idea that healthcare costs have gone up enormously since the affordable care act kicked in and premiums are beginning to soar throughout the country. now we know that virtually all retail is being hurt by amazon. okay. now we get that when a company like whole foods disappoints, it won't be able to perform like we want it too. it's not like any of this stuff was hard to see coming. you need to go to the store to see what was going on. when i walked into costco, i saw fall jackets. i was wearing t-shirts and jeans. the wife said buy it. i watched every patron come through. they didn't even look at the humongous display of warmer goods because it was too darn

warm to contemplate it. then i went by these beautiful heavy cotton calvin klein sweaters, something i might wear to an eagles game with a jersey on top of it, maybe a demarco murray. then i said, what was i doing buying two pieces of warm apparel given that it feels like the fall hasn't even started and it's 72 degrees and i was running the air conditioner all night? sure, there's going to be a winter. but not until you see the whites of this winter's eyes do you feel like shelling out for warm clothes. they've got terrific goods for when it's snowing, but you want a warm northface coat right now that makes you look like the mish he lynn man? i don't think so. when you see these minimum wages go up, who do you think they apply to? they apply to restaurants like

mine, along with some retailers like the other ones you go to that i mentioned. and fast food companies, the competitive institutions offering benefits seem to be dying on the vine. the heck with that. i can only imagine everyone getting these bills at once and getting crushed by higher fees. we'll ultimate get it ratcheted down so when stocks don't react to downgrades, like j.p. morgan taking down price targets for macy's, dillard's, and other good stores. you might have thought macys peaked, couldn't possibly get down below 50 bucks. where it tried to stabilize hard last week. here it is down another 6%, yielding 3.1%. two years ago macy's had more than 4 million shares

outstanding. now it has 3.1. we don't get a bottom until people feel like their disposable income has risen compared to the past. right now the headwinds are brutal and there is no sign of a respite on the horizon. sam in illinois. sam. >> caller: booyah, jim. >> caller: that's my son. how are you doing? will a strong dollar hurt them? >> yes, the strong dollar will hurt monster beverage. only if it hurts them. coca-cola will buy the rest. this distribution deal they made with coca-cola is much bigger than people realize. you will feel very, very pro that company. how about we go to matt in north

carolina. >> caller: ba-ba-ba-booyah. i would like to get your long term opinion on panera bread. >> it's been sucking wind. my travel trust knows that. all the restaurants are going down. i think panera 2.0, the revolutionary new way they're going to be doing the stores will help them. i see 5 down, maybe 20 up. w.b. in iowa. >> caller: this is w.b. from des moines. i am a devoted follower and a repeat caller. >> excellent. when we were out there, we did the university of florida. >> caller: we can play some football now. >> unbelievable. >> caller: with the delayed but impending merger decision, what

are your buy, sell, or hold thoughts on staples or office depot? >> no, i don't want to be in any one of these. costco and amazon can run over any of these companies. they closed the staples across the street from me. i feel these are uninvestable right now. there are too many headwinds that just don't want to quit. at one point these names will be too cheap to ignore but we're just not there yet. horizon pharma has gotten crushed thanks to valiant comparisons. wow. but after its latest earnings, does it market have it all wrong? i have the ceo. after today's decline, is it possible the party is over for cybersecurity? and a brand-new rendition of the lightning round. stick with cramer.

we final acknowledge that not every aquiz iive drug company is a valiant. consider horizon pharma, the much smaller $3.5 billion drug company. it's gotten most of its growth by making a series of acquisitions. it's been trading like a mini version of valiant. last thursday it was down 56% from its highs in july. more than cut in half. and horizon reported on friday, the company, with just seven drugs on the market targeting unmet needs in pain, rheumatology, and/ orphan

diseases. it had substantially higher than expected revenues. plus management gave some truly spectacular guidance. the stock shot up on friday. horizon is generating these numbers not through ridiculous price hikes or channel stuffing, especially pharmas that it may control or may not. the main driver here is that doctors are writing more prescriptions for the drugs. horizon's growth is organic and seemingly sustainable. don't take it from me. tim walbert is the chairman and ceo of horizon. mr. walbert, welcome back to "mad money." >> appreciate you having me. >> i spent a lot of time on your conference call. the reason why you're not valiant, and i know you've got a big meeting, and one of the things i wanted to talk to you about is you use specialty

pharma distributors but in a very different way than what valiant does. >> it's a great question. we've been asked, as you may expect, many times. ours is simple. the pharmacies we work with, duane reade, pharmacies that you walk into, they have one key goal. doctor writes a prescription for our medicine because it has a clinical benefit and the pharmacy ensures they get it. they cut out the middle men who have financial incentive to do so. our role is to ensure that the patient gets what the doctor intended. >> you have no ownership position. >> no ownership whatever. >> with any of these specialty -- although they do do 60%. >> we help with the co-pay to make sure the patient gets it

for under $10. 96% of our patients are paying under $10. if it's rejected by the managed care plan, we do the right thing for the patient, we give them the medicine for free. >> that's important. when you take certain drugs, nsaids, they cause stomach lining damage. >> correct. >> you have a drug, a generic, that combines the two. it works to combat the stomach lining problems. how is that selling? >> when you look at duexis, they did $56 million in the 30 quarter. it's on a run rate of $2 million. important, you can't get the same benefits from two generics separately. that's based on how physicians treat their patients. less than 25% of the time, you go into an office, is a doctor going to give you a gi pro tech

ti ive agent people are not thinking about the downstream harm that can come from taking a pain reliever. doctors think about it. in the rare situation where a doctor says, okay, i'm going to give you a gi protective agent, many don't take it. less than 10% of patients are protected. that leads to over 100,000 hospitalizations and 17,000 deaths each year in the united states. >> why can't another pharmaceutical company knock that off? >> because we did two significant trials with 1500 patients. we've got eight patents for each of these medicine. they're novel therapies that we took the time and spent $800 million for each in buying them or developing them. >> valiant buys companies, they slash r&d. you must clearly recognize while

there's good things you can buy, you also have to develop some great orphan drugs. >> absolutely. our focus and strategy changed in september of 2014. we spent a little over $5 million to buy one of our products. our whole orphan disease business is focused on developing these products. our medicine for ataxia, these young kids die in their 30s for cardiovascular reasons. we have a treatment that's being studied, we'll have data late next year. if that data is good, we'll be able to benefit these patients. that's a $5 billion opportunity for the company. >> there's an ongoing acquisition you're trying to get done. >> correct. >> i know you can't talk about that. it's no different from when we had allergan on, they can't talk

about it. >> right. >> you also said in your conference call and your notes that you aren't done, you'll buy other companies. >> absolutely. >> this is not precluding you from doing that. >> when it comes to depomed, it depends on the shareholders. from the standpoint of where our additional business development efforts are, we have $7 billion on our balance sheet. we've got an ability to add over $1 billion in leverage. we've got the capacity to finance the transaction. we're going to announce at least one to two incremental transactions this year, and two to five a year for the next five years based on our long term plan. >> i feel bad we had to spend half the interview to say you're not valiant, but i know people are confused. tim walbert, there's a ton of

work on this one, it's an incredibly transparent company. "mad money" is back after the breaks.

>> announcer: lightning round is sponsored by td ameritrade.

[ bell ringing ] >> it is time. it is time for the lightning round. you say the name of the stock. i don't know the calls or the name of the stock ahead of time. i tell you whether to buy or sell. when you hear this sound -- [ buzzer ] -- then the lightning round is over. are you ready, skee-daddy? time for the lightning round. cramer's "mad money." i want to start with mark in vermont. >> caller: hey, cramer, this is mark fitzgerald in burlington, vermont. thank you so much for all that you do. i'm a cancer researcher. i'm very excited about a cancer immunotherapy company showing great results in clinical trials. the company has had to debt. they have an exclusive contract with mih. i want to take a long position because it's lion biotechnologies. what are your thoughts? >> you've awfully done a lot more work than i have. i'm going to hold off commenting and do more work.

let me come back to it, sir. obviously you've done the work. i've got to get up to speed because you clearly are up to speed. mark in connecticut. >> caller: booyah, jim. what do you think of american airlines? >> i like delta and then i like southwest air and then i like american. that's my order. darren in washington. >> caller: booyah, mr. cramer. this is darren, home of the 12th man. >> where was the quarterback? >> congratulations on the win yesterday. >> thank you very much. that was very meaningful. >> caller: special shout out, still mourning the loss of my uncle to cancer. i appreciate it. teekay offshore. >> nordic american tanker, i like that yield. garner in tennessee.

>> caller: smith & wesson. >> this is a stock too controversial for me to opine on. i need more information. dorie in new jersey. >> caller: booyah, jim. what kind of party do you think party city will be having? >> it may be a party to celebrate all the inventory they have. they should come on the show and explain why we should ever want to own party city because i don't want to party at party city. madon in jersey city. >> caller: long time listeners, first time caller. >> excellent. >> caller: chesapeake energy. >> too risky, don't like the balance sheet. plenty with good balance sheets, don't need to go down to the

others. >> caller: you're sour on bye technologies. i'm way underwater on celgene. >> boy, it's getting tempting. perhaps at below 110. i think will really reap the benefits, it's just not happened yet. allen in virginia. >> caller: time to buy carters? >> i think apparel is way too hard for this guy. i do not want to be in apparel. i think there's too much of it in the stores. mj in texas. >> caller: booyah, jim. i want to know your advice on

eros. >> bolly wood movies. i have enough trouble watching how lions gate is going down after the close. i'm not going to add that to the list of companies to worry it. that, ladies and gentlemen, is the conclusion of the lightning round. [ buzzer ] >> announcer: the lightning round is sponsored by td ameritrade. i'm here a at the td ameritrade trader offices. ahh... steve, other than making me move stuff, what are you working on? let me show you. okay. our thinkorswim trading platform aggregates all the options data you need in one place that lets you visualize that information for any options series. okay, cool. hang on a second. you can even see the anticipated range of a stock expecting earnings. impressive... what's up, tim? for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this. well, right now you can get 15 gigs for the price of 10. that's 5 extra gigs for the same price. so five more gigs for the same price?

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with the feds likely to raise interest rates last month, you might want to start circling the wagons around high quality secular growth stories. with brings me to cyberark. the one red-hot israeli cybersecurity stock is still hot. it's now down 41% from its june highs. cyberark started getting bashed again last week when fire eye, another company in the same cohort, talked about how the overall level of cybersecurity spending is leveling off. we know that cyberark, which has built a juicy niche for itself by helping companies protect what are called administrator accounts, which have become juicy targets for hackers because they control virtual keys to the technology kingdom,

is doing incredibly well. after fire eye's disappointing quarter, cyberark raised its guidance for the next quarter. it's a profitable company. it was a classic beat and raise quarter. yet the stock is now down nearly 5 bucks since then. i think cyberark is being held down by the etf that's got the ability to crash the sector. let's check in with udi mokady, the founder and ceo of cyberark software. welcome back to "mad money." >> great to be back. >> good to see you, sir. first, i was on your call, unlike the fire eye call, it was congratulations on your great efforts. you've got a 43% increase in revenue. you have tremendous new customers. a huge number of the four tune 500 use you. where are you on spending on

cybersecurity? >> it was a great quarter for us. cyberark is all about proactive security. >> that's important because fire eye did say that, look, the high profile hacks were in the same so you didn't get the caller, but there is the systemic spend in information technology cyberwar fare, and you were getting a fair share of that. >> we stand out because there's move from securing the perimeter to securing the inside of the organization. and cyberark is poised to get benefit from that. >> you've entered the federal market. i kept waiting for someone to be good enough to be there. how is that going? >> that's great. we've been investing in that for a while. we had common criteria certification. we have ten new customers across legislative and executive branches. grand names. it's a good beginning for us. >> i need you to talk about what exactly -- it's kind of

difficult for some of our viewers to really understand. like for instance, steel. some of the companies that you got in that don't sound like companies we should worry about. >> i think that's the beauty of the sector. it used to be only financial services had information security and protecting digital assets. now it's cross-vertical. we doubled in healthcare and doubled in manufacturing. >> what is manufacturing worried about? >> they're worried about their intellectual property, about being in the news if they're hacked, and any information, their customers, their employees. >> the security deal we reached with china has cut the number of hacks. it doesn't sound like the chinese are going away. >> the hacking is not going away. there are many hackers happy to do that. there are for-profit hackers, as we've discussed in the past. that's not declining. in our sales model we're not

depending on hacking happening. it's a proti tivactive measure. >> you have a partnership with mandiant. >> we have a great partnership with mandiant and we take care of our customers together. >> ibm is saying, listen, we're really making inroads in cybersecurity. do you see an ibm? >> he did not see an ibm. >> wait a second. you do not see ibm in this space? >> in our space, no. first -- >> but that's where they should be. >> well, they have elbows in some pieces of the security sector. but in our space you have to be an expert. it's a layer that has to be talking to mission critical systems on the inside. we have a leadership role in there. we worked hard to get there.

>> that's important. you talk about you need to invest to drive growth. that's going to continue, right? >> yes. we see it as a greenfield opportunity. the example is the steel company, just to show every company in the world needs this. >> you talk about how few companies are actually spending. >> yes. it's a greenfield. we have 2,000 customers. we're happy about that. but for us it's just the beginning. we have to get it to 10,000 customers. >> once you get in, you have a huge percent to take care of. >> yes. we showed this quarter, more than 25% of our customers bought three or more products. that's the tip of the iceberg. any new customer we land, and then we expand across the solution base. >> right now obviously the high growth stocks are in a bit of a bear market and people are taking their cue from the worst, not the best. when the smoke clears, you guys are clearly the high profit winner. that's udi mokady, president and ceo of cyberark software.

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