"fast money" starts right now live from the nasdaq market site overlooking new york's times square. i'm scott wapner in for melissa lee. tonight, is the world's biggest bull about to wave the white flag? tom lee is here and says he knows the one thing the bears are missing about stocks. he'll explain. >> plus starbucks falling on weak guidance despite an earnings beat. we'll hear from ceo howard schultz and his take on the expansion plans in china. >> deutsche bank hitting a new all-time low. what's behind that turmoil and

what it could mean for the broader rallies, as well. we start with the markets. stocks ending the day higher, closing well off the best levels of the day. oil staging a furious rebound. in the past two days, the doi rallied nearly 440 points off of its lowest levels. the s&p rallying 3% from yesterday's lows. is this a sustainable bounce or the kind of rally that needs to be sold? grasso, i go to you first. you are on the 50-yard line on the floor. >> oil, you said in the opening. oil had a constructive day. the market needed a constructive day. we've been taking the lead from crude. we got a constructive day out of crude. it inspired people to start covering their positions. the market was led today by energy. every other time we've seen this, it's been a sell the energy pop. we need to see energy hold and crude hold. i didn't like the way crude closed below that $30 mark.

the down slide is not over yet. we shall see. the s&p can rally a bit. >> does if feel like a real term real tradeable bottom? >> what was most disappointing about the 3% move off the s&p low yesterday is that it didn't really get a lot of follow through today. if we had that close above august 24 close, that was constructive yesterday. they could get nothing going today. there were sectors that looked strong today. it felt like a much more than a 50 basis point up move in the s&p today. the fact it was only up 50 basis points on a day crude reversed. >> crude was up 5% today. that's nothing to sneeze at. >> it's not it. doesn't speak to the fact there is a whole lot of stability now. >> short covering rally. rally has to start somewhere. >> yes. it's a buy. i don't know.

it seems so oversold to me when you have things indiscriminately getting sold. i would love to see a day where the market doesn't follow energy every tick. it could happen. >> it will, it will. >> it aerolike to see that. there are indices fine out there and very challenged like energy. we saw another bank announcing increasing provisions. >> we are having this conversation about energy and oil couldn't hold its best levels. schlumberger comes out saying we are buying back $10 billion worth of stock, maintaining our dividend. stephanie link had an interesting take saying this is more of a best in breed company doing what it can and what it should than a statement about where maybe the overall industry is. do you buy that? >> they are best in breed but in a very challenged environment. i think, yes, schlumberger is best in breed.

we talked about $60 being the level to trade against it in terms of long side. i think it traded close to it today. this news will help clearly. i don't think it gives the all-clear sign for the industry. what dan didn't bring up was the weakness in the banks. you mentioned deutsche bank. goldman sachs today closed basically on its 52 week low despite the fact the broader market did well. tradeable bounce? yes. we held where we should have yesterday in the s&p. what was support becomes resistance. it gets to 1920. >> if they do close the cameron merger, they are going to issue $8 billion worth of stock. >> they are getting rid of 10,000 workers, too. >> if you are a worker, it doesn't feel great to be traded for shares. >> i do not know how you could expect a tradeable bounce, something up to that 1950, 2,000 level. citigroup broke multiple-year support. it's down 33% from its 52-week

highs. losses are double that of the s&p. they are telling you something here. i'm not exactly sure what it is. when you see best in breed, jpmorgan down, morgan stanley, we hear exposure to oil. >> it's tradeable bounce. >> what i don't understand, the market still ended up. you may not have closed up 270 on the dow. the banks closed negative. they can't get anything going. >> when rallies start they start with a short covering. they start with that dash or trash. they start with the junk. you have to see if there is any follow through where those quality names have to be bought. the quality names have already been bought. the breadth of the market has been terrible. we have to see if the short covering still lives. watch that 1880 mark. >> today's rally must have put a smile on our next guest's face.

tom lee of fund straight advisors is one of the biggest bull on the street. >> thanks for having me, guys. >> you're known to be bullish. where are you today in. >> we are a bruised bullish, right? it's been an extremely tough environment for someone who is trying to focus either on corporate fundamentals, long constructive views. you can't ignore the technicals. really, not emotion but investor preference to not be exposed to risk asset. it's been very tough. >> you've been concerned about high yield, concerned about the banks a bit. let's listen to what you had to say about those very issues recently. >> if you think high yield is going to take down the tape, why are the banks holding up pretty well? >> why aren't the banks

performing better is a more relevant question for today's conversation. >> yeah. it's a really good point. like you said, there was prebroad-based rally today. financials weren't participating. not because earnings haven't been good. banks reported good results. i think there is a possibility what the banks are reflecting today is the potential for the fed to maybe delay some of its hikes. as you know, you need a steepening curve and you need the idea that or confidence that the fed is going to do successive hikes to improve the bank's profit model. i do think part of the weakness in the banks today could be realization that in conjunction with what the ecb said, maybe the fed is going to pause and push this out. it wouldn't be good for banks. >> i'm not going to ask you to comment about deutsche bank the stock or the company. i will ask you to comment about the company with potentially the

biggest derivative book on the planet making an all-time low today. could that potentially be this year's, i don't want to say bear stearns, but for lack of a better one, this year's bear stearns? >> or an enron or something, right? >> no. i don't want to -- i would be remiss to call it enron. better suited -- >> bear stearns? >> there is no fraud. i'm not alleging any fraud here. >> yeah. exactly. i think what which all have to be confident of oil at $20 is going to put stress in high-yield markets and in leveraged loans and so people are going to be concerned -- because i've been at a lot of us

talk about the infection creates additional stress points. a bank big in structured product and derivatives, it makes sense that that's the thing you want to be the least attracted to and you want to be more attracted to like a more financial institution. i don't think that the weakness surprises me because of the stress we are seeing. i'm not implying there is going to be some calamity happening to deutsche bank specifically or any large european bank with a big derivatives book. >> let me ask you a question. brian belski was on the air earlier today. he thought it is reprehensible for people to draw comparisons to what has gone on in 2008. you probably have a constructive view on the u.s. economy.

is there anything in your mind right now, in your world view that you can see as a comparison to 2008? one of the things we are talking about deutsche bank is act the like one of the banks in 2008. are there any comparisons you can make that make sense that aren't reprehensible? >> i'm not following your question. are you saying am i seeing any ripple effects that are echos? >> i think the spirit is some people are criticizing what they perceive to be fear mongering by those raising questions about the healthiness of the banks. deutsche bank may be the poster child in that conversation. is there anything you see out there that draws any sort of correlation to 2008 as it relates to the banks?

>> okay. i'm glad to answer that. especially in '08 i was working at a large bank. i think ultimately what ended up being multiple break points was you lost a bar of last result. we saw that with the failure of big institutions. the only maybe analogy you would make today is the structure of the markets has changed. the constraints are placed on banks today so if you are a hedge fund or a traditional buyer of somewhat illiquid assets you have a feeling you don't have a buyer of last resorts. the death spiral that comes from that is the only sort of analogy. the difference is in '08, this engulfed the entire mortgage

market, affected the home buyer market. the buyer of a house asset was the buyer who was actually being engulfed in a credit, lack of credit access. i think the difference today is if the fracture point is in the energy sector and it's going to affect either u.s. energy companies or emerging market producers, the good news is that the buyers of the assets produced by these businesses is probably gaining from this. you still have potential for this domino effect for a credit event, but it's not like housing. >> tom, thanks for calling in. appreciate it very much. >> great. >> this ends up being more of a conversation we were having about the banks.

>> there is clearly something going on. look at the move in bank of america. the stock was a 17 handle five or six trading sessions ago. made a 52-week low today. clearly something is remiss, especially on a day where we bounced as well as we did the last two days and you have these things making 52-week lows. >> what doesn't make sense is how can you have a 10-year at 2% or slightly below that and think the net interest margin situation is going to perform -- >> that's what the banks are pricing in. that's the problem with the marketplace. we are pricing in that curve you are talking about. if the long dips below, we are going to invert the yield curve and the fed was in danger of thatting do. now i think the banks are worried about no growth global. >> the thing to be the most bullish about coming into this year with the banks or towards the end was net interest margin going up because the interest rates were going to increase based on the fed's path.

up you've taken that out of the equation entirely. 10-year at 1.98. give me another reason to buy the bank. >> today trading down would be a declared dividend today. people would be disappointed it wasn't bigger. i wasn't expecting to see any bump until after the next stress test. to me that wasn't disappointing. it trades terribly. no other way to put it. up next, lots of after-hours news. starbucks down on weak guidance. >> american express lower on earnings. >> boeing shares falling. they will reduce the number of 747s.

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welcome back to "fast money." take a look at shares of boeing which are under pressure after hours after the company announced that it is cutting its production of the 747-8 cutting

it in 12 a year down to 6 a year. that production cut will start in september. resulting in a $569 million after-tax charge for boeing. the 747-8 is the largest airplane that boeing builds. they built a passenger version and freighter version. it's the weakness in the air cargo market on the trader side. that is causing this production cut. boeing says the global air freight volumes were down 1.2% in late 2015. announcing the cut, the ceo of boeing says global air passenger traffic growth and airplane demand remains strong. that's not the issue. the problem is the air cargo market recovery that began in late 2013 stalled in recent months and slowed demand of the 747-8 freighter. shares of boeing have been under pressure since the company announced this production cut. keep in mind boeing has just 20 orders than its books for 747-8.

by cutting production down to six per year instead of 12, they extended out how long that production line will be going and will book more orders in the future. this is another indication when you look at the global economy, the fact that the international freight shippers or all freight shippers are seeing weakness and weakness is correlated with the demand falling for the 747-8 freighter version. >> back in october when delta warned of what it called a bubble in wide body planes and boeing sold off as a result of that, i can only guess they were speaking directly to passenger planes and not cargo planes. we've passed the point of peak airplane, if you will. now it seems like we are in a downward slide for boast passenger jets and cargo planes. is that right? >> the newest of the planes have all been announced this latest round.

if you conclude the 747 going back to the dreamliner, we've been in i would say a seven 0 eight year period where new models were announced and the biggest of the orders were booked. most of that happened both for boeing and airbus. we will probably see more order growth as we see derivatives come out or be announced within the next couple of years. to your point regarding the glut in wide body aircraft and what delta said, at that time nobody was asking whether or not that would have an impact on the cargo market. most people were working on the assumption what richard anderson was talking about was relative to the passenger market. when you consider that in the context of the freighter market, we've talked for some time that the global freighter demand has been under pressure. hasn't had robust growth for some time. the fact they noticed it slowing down since late 2013, it was not surprising to most people who

followed boeing they were going to announce some production cut with the 747-8. they were emphatic saying it's the freighter side. >> last i saw shares were down 1% or so. it doesn't appear the market is too surprised or all up in arms about what it's hearing today. >> right. neither surprise nor up in arms because this is relative to the whole portfolio of airplanes boeing builds and what contributes to the bottom line. this is a relatively small piece of the portfolio. >> dreamliner. we'll talk to you soon. >> all right. >> what's the read here? >> small piece of that portfolio, yes. it speaks to a global slowdown we've been talking about. it talks to why the baltic dry index is where it is. why the transports are trading the way they've traded the last 18 months. boeing had to get traded.

120 held on the nose all 2014. i don't think it's expensive. you trade it on the long side against 120. >> i've got to go to karen. 13 times pays 3.5% dividend yield. earnings estimates for 2016 are too high. obviously maybe this is a soft guide down here. it feels to me like a value trap. when you look at the valuation, you look at the capital return, but it seems right smack dab in the middle of everything wrong with the global economy. >> if you think it's cyclical which the industry tends to be cyclical, 13 times peak ain't so cheap. it always works out you get a peak multiple at peak earnings, trough multiple at trough earnings. >> i would guarantee you people of our age collectively on this desk watching the show owe

boeing. i've owned boeing forever. it's a long-term holding for me. they'll continue to own it. for me, global slowdown, not going to perform well. if you still look at that chart, it's always lower left to upper right. >> there is an air pocket down to $100. >> longer term means bring it out. >> feels like this will be a data point that is more of a macro anecdote in the conversation about recession or no recession. >> recession you don't buy anything. check out shares of american express trading lower on earnings. starbucks down nearly 5%. both calls well under way. the headlines. >> i can't take it!

>> if that's how you feel about the market, in your trouble. stocks could fall another 30%. why is this man smiling? maybe because he bought a big junk of disney stock.

welcome back to "fast money." american express holding its conference call after the fourth quarter numbers beat forecast. big news is what the company plans to do and what it called an increasingly competitive environment. over the next two years it plans to cut $1 billion in costs in order to streamline its operations and what the company said would be driving efficiency. on the call, ceo saying the performance that the company is discussing today is not what he or investors expected. the company is taking actions to

address the difficulties going forward. wall street was expecting some reset from amex. the firm's failed to meet its long-term goals of earnings growth 12% to 15%. given the loss of key businesses, it is forced to respond by trimming expenses continuously and continuing to invest in what it calls new growth initiatives. providing earnings guidance and expects results of $5.40 to $5.70 a share. those numbers will include a gain on the expected sale of its costco loan portfolio where amex is guesting a gain of $20 billion. fourth quarter earnings lower than last year but ahead of analyst estimates. 5% increase in customer spend adjusted for those adjusted numbers. stock lower in the after-hours

session. >> thanks, mary thompson. >> we were just talking. this stock has not been the same since the moment that costco announcement dropped. >> right. not that it was ever a high flier, but seemed the mojo was gone. it's a great brand. >> i don't know what the stock is down since that day. >> i think it was $80 maybe. >> it has not been the same since that moment. >> the stock was north of $90. stock has nod traded well since the middle of 2014. people have been trying to buy it on value. the play continues to be mastercard/visa over american express. >> paypal. american express has a $60 billion market value. paypal has about 30. it's about a quarter of the sales. what is american express tell you? they have a lot of costs.

they need to think about peer to peer, other payment processing seems. paypal is probably a better bet at the lows since it was spun out of ebay in the summer. >> it's got a long way to fall. i don't like buying these laggards and losers. maybe a leg into it a little bit here. it's got to hold that $58 range. i do like visa and mastercard. ultimately in american express you have more up side if they can gain momentum. >> sounds like the company is trying to make up for that lost business. that's why maybe their guidance continues to look weaker. >> a couple of good headlines with efficiency. some of wall street's heaviest hitters out with encouraging comments about the economy today.

widely followed market pundit david stockman says they are missing a major warning sign in the economy. he'll tell us what that is. has the recent biotech route made several well-known stocks at the lowest valuations in years?

welcome back. here what's coming up, the billionaire bankers are sounding bullish at this year's world economic forum in davos. could their positive words be a warning sign? bob iger betting big on disney. despite the recent rout in the stock. starbucks falling in the after-hours on earnings. the conference call about halfway finished. jane wells live in l.a. with the headlines. they haven't gotten to the question part yet, but they've been talking about mobile ordering, mobile order in pay growing, more than 6 million transactions. some places more than 10% morning sales. as guidance for the current

quarter was light, the top line light, howard schultz talked about what a stellar and record-breaking quarter it was. operating income topped $1 billion the first time. total revenue $5.4 billion, a record. a couple of things to highlight. china and k-cups. china, the company plans to open 500 stores a year in each the next five years. schultz was there at an opening there joined by jack ma. you can send friends digital starbucks cards. schultz believes the chinese government's plan to double per capita income from 2010 to '21 and create a chinese middle class twice the size of the united states is sustainable. listen. >> let me say that china is here to say. the buffeting the chinese economy is taking during today's period of transition is

necessary for it to move on its next stage of development. >> the second issue, the k-cup. starbucks now has the lead in k-cups. with the sale of keurig, they are in the k-cup business to stay. the question is whether that will be in could be junction with keurig or starbucks might do it on its own. >> thanks. is this because the china comps? investors shrugged off the slight miss. we heard the same thing about china from netflix. a stock trading 30 times earnings could see a slowdown. the stock has been in a massive down trend. it was up 4%, down 5%.

that is awash. >> i talk about this. the overall market, 70% will trade with the market. starbucks around 200 day moving average $56.25. it's going to test it tomorrow. if it holds that level, i would be a bifrmt. >> the other thing they said 500 stores in china. that's great but there are 23,000 stores. 500 stores is a nice number of stores, but as a percentage, it's not so high. >> a latte stores. >> was that a joke? >> i even missed that.

it was too quick for me. it's close for example to 28 times. >> their operating margins continue to be strong. better than people were expecting. valuation has become a concern. holds 56.25 which is a bit of a support line. >> all the stores in china, that's where future growth will come from. this company has high single digit comps last year. >> buy the stock here. >> guys have to be in the space. >> why do you have to be in the

coffee space? >> you're a quick fast options trader. if you're managing $100 million and the people manage from $1 billion to $100 billion, you have to be in the space and own something. you are not going to own dunkin brands. >> dan thinks it's headed back to $50. i think it holds $56.25. that's where it closed same day august 24th. is today's rally a fakeout? we hear from a wall street insider who says a thunderous market collapse is coming. disney in a steep decline. bob iger swooped in to buy the stock. is he trying to catch a falling knife? details ahead.

welcome back to "fast money." executives from some of the biggest banks are sounding bullish at the world economic forum in davos today. listen to morgan stanley ceo james goreman and goldman sachs' president and coo. >> there is not a perfect

picture. there are excessive valuations in the market. no question. is this the cause of the countercorrection we've seen in my screen at my desk, there are about 70 stocks i follow from energy, financials, consumer, housing media every single one of them is down, precipitously. what happened? you can imagine a correction off the highs. >> what i think the confusing part of the oil market is, everyone's relating the sell-off in oil to be an economic slowdown. i don't believe the sell-off in oil is reflective of an economic slowdown. if you look at the fourth quarter year over year demand for oil, it was up 1.1%. we are not seeing a demand slowdown in oil. we are seeing a massive oversupply of oil. >> are the big bank ceos too optimistic?

after leaving the white house, mr. stockman had a long career on wall street. good to see you. are goreman and cohen missing something? >> they are talking their book, selling stock. would you expect them to be optimistic. i think we have a dead cat bounce in no man's land around 1870 on the s&p. we've been there now for 700 days, if you can believe that. first crossed in february 2014. by my count we had something like 35 attempts at rally. all of them failed for what i call the four and o, there is no earnings growth, they are going down, honest earnings on a gaap basis. no dry powder left in the central banks of the world. we've been through 20 years. i think they are done from china to here. there is no reflation because there won't be credit growth in the world and we are going into

a much different deflationary era. forget about jobs. it's a lagging indicator. anybody that can fog a mirror is having a job. business sales are the heart of the matter. they are down 4%. capex orders are down 6% from the peak a year ago. freight volume is down 7%. exports are down 12%. inventories to sales are adding october -- >> are you suggesting we are going to, for the first time in history, import a recession? >> i don't know. imported, we are in a flat global commitment everything is interrelated. we are now in a huge deflation as a result of this massive credit bubble we had. let me give two numbers i think are really important. central banks had $2 trillion on balance sheets about two decades ago. it's $21 trillion now.

not chump change. this caused an enormous expansion of credit and financial valuation bubble. secondly, that resulted in debt in the world going from $40 trillion mid '90s to $225 trillion today. we are at peak debt. there is no more credit that can be shoved into the system. there has been massive overshechlt in everything, mining, energy, heavy industry, transportation. you name it. ship building. >> how long have you been negative? what's the point of reference? can the equity markets, because we've known a lot of these things in the past, can the equity markets grind high other stabilize with smoke and mirrors to your point? how long have you been negative while the s&p has run up? >> i've been negative ever since they started the money printing screen i described because it wasn't sustainable.

with credit growth you can get china in this massive expansion, but now they are drowning in excess capacity of everything. they created a billion tons of steel. they don't have demand for half of it. they doubled the size of auto industry. demand is not growing that rapidly. if we look around the world, everything now for the first time in 20 years is beginning to shrink. the central banks can't do anything. the bank of china is facing a trillion of capital flight this year. when december numbers are in, it will be a trillion of capital flight. they can't run their printing press or they will cause total panic. bank of japan is crazy. they are buying anything in the fixed market that moves. they are done. europe, draghi is emitting world clouds. there is nowhere to go except

negative interest rates which will cause a political explosion in this country. honest earnings were $106 a share. s&p gaap, ltm september 2014. they came in 91 and ltm ended in the third quarter. that is down 14%. i don't see why it's going up. therefore, i think we are now getting to the point where the chickens are coming home to roost. you are not going to be able to fake your way any further. there is no hope from the central banks. that's why these rallies are getting weaker and weaker and shorter and shorter. >> we'll leave it there. it's a point of view. there are many on the other side. >> sure. >> david, thank you. >> great. it's a point of view i share. he said it more intelligently than i tried to say the last six months. why do you have an s&p valuation 16, 17 times in this environment begin what he is talking about should be closer to 3.

talk about s&p earnings. let's say gets you to $100. you can do the math the way the s&p should be trading. talking about mean reversion after six or seven years of total excess. central banks are outle bullets. >> when you look at the three that last year, what were the three best performing stock markets? it was japan, china and europe. they are down the most this year. those are the three countries or regions that are still in the qe game. if you think the fed is going to come to the rescue with the next level qe, you're mistaken. what is happening so far in 2016 is central banks are pushing on a string. >> you are telling me 1300 on the s&p is fair value? >> i will say this, you can make a cogent argument given the environment globally, the real multiple should be closer to 13 than where it is now. you could absolutely figure it

out that it should be there. >> 13 times. >> that's where all the money printing started. you have to look back to that point in history. >> coming up, biotech stocks are taking a beating this year. one of the biggest names in the group has a multiple lower than apple's. the name when we come become.

welcome back to "fast money." the biotech etf, the ibb falling more than 2%. cnbc's biotech reporter meg tirrell is here. you are looking at some of the biggest names in the index tonight. >> we took a look at the three biggest names in the ibb and checked out what's going on with our multiples. they are down about 18%. you look at gilead, amgen and celgene. gilead trading 7 times earnings down from 40 times beginning of 2014. it came down because that's around the time the drug pricing pressure started to ratchet up. we talked about drug pricing when there were real companies

like gilead. it started to come down. gilead is trading at this level because people don't know what is going to happen after they cure everybody of hepatitis-c. folks are asking who are they going to buy. they think it should be trading higher. >> how does amgen compare? >> a higher multiple trading 20 times earnings compared with gilead's seven times. sorry. trading 15 times down from a high of 20 times. all these biotechs are down right now. celgene is the same. people say these are really great looking stocks. they've got a lot of earnings visibility. if you look at the top six pi techs in the ibb, they are trading 18 times 2016 earnings compared to 14, 15 for the s&p 500. they've got earnings expectations for 11% this year. that's why analysts are arguing these big biotechs are cheap

right now. >> celgene and amgen. celgene has one of the best balance sheets in the industry. i give them the benefit of the doubt. dan nathan has been spot on, but i will make for them to report and see what happens. >> disney shares popping after an s.e.c. filing revealed bob iger bought 125,000 shares of the company. a move setting off bullish activity in the options pit. that is where dan nathan is looking at the smart board. >> the largest trade of the day in disney was a sale of 2500 of the january 29th next week 94 puts at $2.25. they were to close, i suspect that was present the ex-for a long holder or somebody who made a prior bearish bet. i want to show why you were closing out a bearish bet. look at that.

$90, august 24th. looks like good support. they don't report until february 9th. look at the long term uptrend. it is below that. if they have a miss, this will have an eight handle and bottoms out at $80. >> thank you. check out the full show tomorrow at 5:30 p.m. eastern. dan and i and the gang will be here. >> right on. >> see that big smile on dan's face when i said that? up next, the traders tell us what they are watching. here at td ameritrade, they work hard. wow, that was random. random? no. it's all about understanding patterns. like the mail guy at 3:12pm every day or jerry getting dumped every third tuesday. jerry: every third tuesday. we have pattern recognition technology on any chart plus over 300 customizable studies to help you anticipate potential price movement.

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it's time for the final trade around the horn. >> i'm going to take the other side of guy for star buck. sell any rally for starbucks. >> i was breaking my major rule of three day rule to buy it. it's up 14% for the s&p down over the same duration. aeo a buy. >> i like whole foods. staged a rally, gave it back, but i like it at this level. >> you haven't been here in a while. and you're here tomorrow for "o.a." that's "options action." >> that is a heady show. >> pass the tissues. >> halliburton traded well today.

up 3%. had levels we last saw 2012. i think rallies into earnings. >> good stuff. hope you had fun. i did. see you tomorrow. catch "fast money" tomorrow at 5:30 p.m. "mad money" with jim cramer begins right now. my mission is simple -- to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere. i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now. hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money." welcome to cramerica. other people want to make friends. i'm just trying to make you some money. my job is to teach and entertain. call me at 1-800-743-cnbc. or tweet me @jimcramer. i got a glimpse in the market's mind today. i was able to do a genuine