of those coming out on halloween, people, don't dress up as a creepy clown. >> besides it's a cliche now already. >> mikel santoli. "fast money" begins right now. "fast money" starts right now. and we have some breaking news we want to go straight to dom chu. breaking news on wells fargo. >> just in the last couple moments here. this is dow jones citing sources saying that wells fargo president and ceo, tim sloan, will take over as the ceo of wsk and that ceo john stumpf, embattled because of the fake account scandal will retire as ceo. this is source reporting from the dow jones side of thing. wells fargo also going that the board of directors, elizabeth duke, becomes vice chairman of

the board. all these headlines coming out fairly fast and furious over the course of the last three or four minutes or so. that's why wells fargo shares, you can see here -- it's not a massive spike, but still a huge move. 2% higher. you can see by the chart there, a straight line up for wells fargo. again, on these wells fargo headlines from dow jones, again saying that elizabeth duke will become vice chairman. tim sloan will take over as ceo, john stumpf will retire. all source reporting effective immediately. so that's why those shares are on the move. we'll continue to monitor these headlines. melissa, guys. for right now, that's the reason why you're seeing wells fargo react the way it is in the after market session, guys. back over to you. >> thanks so much, dom chu. a stunning development in the wells fargo story after the company was essentially called to testify on capitol hill two times in as many weeks. here we have ceo john stumpf out. and this, of course, after a foregoing pay for this year. does this resolve any issues? >> no. they're putting in place a guy who was the president and the

coo under stumpf. to me if you're looking for blood, you got blood, but i don't think it changes anything as far as the sea level sweep is concerned. in some ways, you're having a little relief rally. i don't think this does a whole heck of a lot. >> i think it takes pressure off. as you said, they want blood and they're going to get blood. and so if you look at the bank, at the end of the day, we've all said for weeks now, we don't think there is an issue with the balance sheet, we don't think there is an issue with the business. we'll hear on friday their third quarter numbers and their wealth management division will be down. on some level, this gets a lot of stuff out of the way for the bank. so does it warrant a 2% move with questions to be answereded? this does seem to remove some pressure from the bank, but that is the sort of unqualifiable liabilities they might face. this does not provide any clarity on that or what the future costs will be for recruiting for retaining talent. all these things that are still out there. >> no, all good points. but i can i think the reality is, we went through this banking

crisis and people didn't feel there was enough heads that rolled. and now all of a sudden you get something years later and they want heads to roll. you go to the very top. i understand what dan is talking about now. they're just looking for something. they need change. and people were very, very angry, you could tell by the reaction throughout the last couple weeks. and what's been going on there. they were looking for anything and anybody of position to be removed, because that was one of the biggest complaints. they didn't feel like high enough folks up there on the ladder were being taken down. they just went to the top. the top man is now beggone. >> but the optics, he's retiring. >> call it what you want. i mean, it's fine. >> not fired. >> uh -- >> whatever. >> no, i get it -- but in terms of the optics. if you want heads to roll, you fire the guy. i'm not saying that you know, he's out -- he's out. >> he's out, he's out. okay. that's fine. i don't know what happened. retired, whatever it is. but i think it's one -- listen, this is one step closer to being

able to be long wells fargo. to your point, listen, is there litigation risk down the road? i'm sure -- i'm certain there is. is this quarter going to be sort of the kitchen sink quarter? i think it's on friday, right? probably. but, you know, now you have to say to yourself, has enough bad news been priced in the stock where if you can get through this quarter at 11 times or so forward earnings, wells fargo is interesting. to me, this is an important -- i think it's a pretty important first step. so i'm more inclined to be long the stock today after this news than yesterday. >> in terms of valuation, you make the point repeatedly wells fargo still trades at a premium and a one-priced book. >> the irony, this makes jpmorgan look fantastic. as pete said, they want to go after people and somebody somewhere, maybe everybody everywhere, wants culprits and scapegoats for everything that happened after 2008. there has been rough patches for jpmorgan, but here's a guy who continues to show up every day,

talk to regulators, the bank second quarter, their loan growth is there, a diversified model. it puts more of a premium on a difficult environment, both regulatory and market wise, i think jpmorgan gets a benefit from this. >> jpmorgan trading roughly at 1.1 price to book versus 1.3 for wells fargo versus .86 or .68, excuse me, for bank of america. >> and the other thing you've got to remember, going back and i know we have talked at the breakfast many times. but the idea that jamie decides to go in and suddenly it's the jamie bottom. he put a commitment down we didn't see out of a lot of the other bankers. i think that was very critical, as well. >> we've got some more developments. let's go back to dom chu in the news room. >> so melissa, guys, we now have confirmation from wells fargo in a press release, wells fargo goes through the headlines that we just brought you. the fact that chairman and ceo, john stumpf, has informed the board of directors he's retiring from the company effective immediately. the board has elected tim sloan, the company's president and coo to succeed him.

steven sanger, its lead director, will serve as the board's nonexecutive chairman and independent elector liz breathe duke, vice chair. just some quotes with regard to john stumpf. stumpf saying he was grateful for the opportunity to have led wells fargo and also very optimistic about its future because of the talented and caring team members and the stagecoach with tense of millions of customers. they have been committed and is focused on managing the company. i have decided it's in the best interest of the company i step aside. i know no better individual to lead this company forward than tim sloan. also going on to say some more words about the history of his time there. the immediate and highest priority is to restore its trust in wells fargo. a tremendous responsibility, one which i look forward to taking on, said tim sloan, the new coo elect here. will work tirelessly to build a stronger and better wells fargo for generations to come. so, again, those shares, they have held fairly steady. you can see the spike there, 2%. but now it's on the record.

wells fargo saying that john stumpf has decided to retire and will be succeeded by tim sloan as the ceo. steven sanger becomes the nonexecutive chairperson there, and director elizabeth duke the vice chair. she is one of the lead independent directors, and independent director now elizabeth duke, vice chair. so a lot of developments, a lot of people moving around here. but still, perhaps not a surprise to some, melissa, about john stumpf. but still, this news is sending those shares higher. we should note that the shares were down about 14% during this kind of melee during the congressional hearings and what not. they have started to move a little higher in just the last couple days. >> we should also -- you've got to wonder, dom, in terms of the wording of him stepping down, him retiring versus him being released, or him being fired, could very well be an effort to preserve some sort of golden parachute or separation agreement so he will walk away with some sort of severance. >> that remains to be seen what the operation package will end up being. we know they have already -- a group of people have forfeited

some portions of their bonuses or salaries or unvested stock options in the company or restricted stock in the company. still, this is a situation where it appears as though john stumpf is being given the opportunity to leave on his own terms, taking this type of retirement route as opposed to being ousted by the board of directors. but effectively, what's happened here -- and said it in the release, it's party for him to kind of move on and for tim sloan to take over the reigns and restore what's going to happen to wells fargo's reputation. >> last trade, $46.30, $3 off the 52-week low. >> this is a $230 billion market company, with 270,000 employees, less the 5,300 they fired last month. i have to think the coo, president, who is now the ceo, was more involved with whatever the practices were going on. so to me, i find this to be like a half measure. >> to be fair, does it -- he became president and coo in

november of 2015. so was in place when the -- when the practices were going on. but not for the entire time when the "l.a. times" first unsurfaced these allegations. >> a bunch of senior positions, for 29 years. and two days ago made a bunch of management changes that paved the way for this. two days ago, big articles, we solidified the foundation under tim sloan. it all comes at a time when there is a pretty interesting change going on in wealth management and asset management, period. a lot of controversy whether people -- accounts should be charged on ithe waysis basis o their assets, fees. morgan stanley disputed that, wells fargo. so there is a lot of -- at a time when people are in uproar over this situation because it's going on all over the industry, i think the whole industry is going to be under fire. >> oh, definitely. let's get to cnbc's, will ford frost on the fast line, following this story from the very beginning. what can you tell us? >> hey, melissa.

i just wanted to add some more context to this. as you guys have already discussed very much this being framed as a retirement, not being fired. steven sanger, nonexecutive board saying in a statement which you guys have already covered that he, john stumpf, felt it was time to move on, and he also said that mr. stumpf had dedicated his professional life to banking, leading wells fargo through the crisis. mr. stumpf in a statement saying i'm grateful for the opportunity and optimistic about the future of the bank. very much framed as a retirement. in times -- in terms of the timing of this, is it still is a surprise. yes, we had the announcement earlier this week solidifying tim sloan's role as coo and directly reporting to mr. stumpf. he has been in that role, as up since december of 2015, also head of banking until this week. so that removal perhaps paved

the a way a little bit. kmebtsz reported by the "wall street journal" earlier this week had him saying he was looking forward to the earnings call, which is this friday. and setting out the plan for the company moving forward. so it does come as a surprise, and, of course, just two weeks ago at the senate hearing, mr. stumpf committed, he being the person that wanted to lead this forward. clearly, the pressure has got too much. framed as a retirement. but no doubt the pressure internally and external also forcing the hand in terms of the decision to move on. guys? >> will, thank you so much. wilfred frost joining us. and shares now up by 1.5%. first analyst to slap a sell rating on the stock, dick, great to have you with us. does its removal make you inclined to rethink your sell rating? >> no, a sell is a sell and a sell is based upon the fact the

fundamentals of this company do not merit the premium it sells relative to book value. if you take a look at the pretax, pre -- you know, provision earnings of this company, from 2009 to the present, they have not gone up you. 100% of the increase in earnings at wells fargo has come from the reducing the reserve. zero percent of the increase in the pretax earnings have come from an increase in their operating business. the company not only has not shown any improvement in its profits, as i would tell about them -- pretax, preprovision. but it put all the extreme sales effort, because it needed to to build the business, which wasn't growing. the fact that jpmorgan has shown continuous growth in earnings through this period, and wells fargo has shown no growth in earnings would tell you that this company does not deserve the premium, jpmorgan does. if you don't want to give the premium to jpmorgan, then you've

got to take this company down to where jpmorgan is selling, which is somewhere around 110% of book. in terms of the future, this company is facing some major, major changes. the first one would say indicated a couple days ago when they suggested that they were going to move from de centralized operation to a centralized operation. that is enormously expensive. it will add to the cost of running this business. they put 2,000 people in place who are going to be going out to these branches, looking over the shoulders of managers, telling them not to do bad things, whatever bad things might be. >> so dick -- >> that is going to slow down the revenues of the company and further increase the cost of running the business. stock is a sell. >> so you don't like the company's restructuring, you don't like the fundamentals of the business. you doubt the earnings quality of the company -- if we can just isolate for this particular development in the story, isolate the headline risk to the

bank from congress. does this ameliorate the rage of the senators and the american people? >> it certainly reduces the factual get from people like senator warren. the fact of the matter is, the big issue the congress is going to be dealing with is not, you know, what happened to the customers who paid 25 bucks there was an account that was open. but what happened to the employees? in other words, if you take a look at some of the stories coming in to me, and i would assume everybody else, giving an example -- there was this woman who worked for wells fargo for five years. she was told if she didn't meet these sales goals, you know, she would be fired and wells fargo would make sure that she was never hired again in banking. she ultimately was fired, they put something on her u-5, which is like the u-4 in our business, and she, in fact, was indicated she was fired for cause, and she

was never -- she never got another job in banking. it's the treatment of those people which is going to be a source of -- if you will, congressional inquiry. >> are we going to get a next leg of scrutiny on wells fargo? i mean, are we going to hear that john stumpf has quote, unquote, retired so therefore he walks away with a pay package, you know, x number of dollars big? i mean, what do you know about stumpf and the sorts of agreements he might have to preserve some sort of severance? >> my feeling is that the -- you know, if you will, concentration on john stumpf is totally misplaced. you know, he may walk away with a nice package. in my view, he did a lot of very good things when he was at wells fargo. the acquisition of wachovia was a big success. the ability to move the company into the capital markets area was a big success. the ability to control expenses was a big success.

so john stumpf was not a bad guy. he did a lot of good things for this company. and the fact he may walk away with a nice pay package is irrelevant. what is relevant, if i'm buying the stock, is not how much money john stumpf is getting. it's how much money do i make if i own the stock? and it's got nothing to do with john stumpf on his walk-away package. everything to do with whether this company can show increased earnings over the next few years and i don't think it can. >> okay. dick, thank you so much for phoning in. dick bove. i bring up the pay package only because if this move was in part to sort of move the scrutiny away from wells fargo from a regulatory standpoint, a giant severance package is not -- completely get what he's saying about the fundamentals of the company. but if you have the bucket of the fundamentals of the company and the bucket of the optics on the company, these are two things that need to sort of -- >> the optics aren't great, but i like what dick was saying.

he is saying what other people have also said about the company, the earnings haven't been that great. they don't deserve the premium they had. that's double pressure, especially at a time when, as you said, the optics aren't so good. >> so now i think warren buffett has been quiet, except he hasn't said anything. you wonder tomorrow or later this afternoon, does he makes comments about what he feels about his investment going forward based on the news we heard. he has been surprisingly quiet. one has to wonder, does he have the capacity to increase? in other words, i'm not sure what his restrictions are. but if so, does this open up his wallet to buy more wells fargo stock? >> all right. we've got to take a break here. let's take a check on shares of wells fargo. we had seen it move as high as -- more than 2% in the after hours session, now up by 1.5%. in case you're just joining us, the breaking news that happened in the past 17 minutes, john stumpf announcing his retirement, effective immediately. it is the story of the hour. it will be the story tomorrow,

as well. we'll bring you more breaking coverage as it develops. meantime, coming up, shares of apple on their best winning streak in almost two years. why is one technician telling clients to sell now? he'll be here to explain. stay tuned.

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welcome back to "fast money." let's get to our top trade. check out shares of cisco systems sinking. that is one of its biggest partners. ericson, the swedish equipment maker fell to 20% today. pete, you were into cisco, are this was your big pitch. of. >> yep. it got up to 33, and recently started its pullback in the last couple weeks, started to fall and today pulled back, obviously, by erickson. numbers i think sometimes a misread. overread. and when i look at what cisco is doing in the transitional process, all the things we talked about on the pitch not too many weeks ago. this name going higher. i like the yield and the cash on the balance sheet and moving in the right direction in the cloud. still ahead, wells fargo ceo john stumpf out. shares moving slightly higher. we'll have continuing coverage of the breaking news just moments ago right after this break. i'm melissa lee, you're watching "fast money" first in business worldwide.

here's what else is coming up on "fast." >> here's what shares of apple have been doing. so why is one technician saying now is the time to sell? he'll be here to explain. plus, tim is bringing the heat. serving up his pitch for what he says could be the hottest stock for your portfolio. he'll reveal when "fast money" returns. important than your health. or the freedom to choose what doctor you want to see. so if you have medicare parts a and b, consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan,

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what's team spirit worth? (cheers) what's it worth to talk to your mom? what's the value of a walk in the woods? the value of capital is to create, not just wealth, but things that matter. morgan stanley welcome back to "fast money." let's check on shares of wells fargo. they are still higher in the after hours session, although off the highs, up by 1.6% right now on news that john stumpf is retiring from the company, effective immediately. we'll have much more on that story a little bit later on. first let's hit apple, on the longest winning streak since

february of last year and our next guest says sell. why? todd gordon of trading analysis.com is at the smart board to break it down. why sell now, todd? >> i don't say sell yet. before we get into the trade, can we first take a look at the nasdaq, get the index behind us and then move into apple coming into earnings next week. if we take a look at the nasdaq, we're looking at a weekly chart here. this is a pattern technicians refer to as a measured move. a weekly chart of the nasdaq. what's happened is we have seen a 17% rally here in early 2016. we set back and right now happen to be in another 17% rally. and that 17% level is acting as resistance up top. so as we go to the next chart, zoom in, still on a weekly chart here, that's 17%. just kind of capping the last couple weeks. what you'll notice right here, this is this week's weekly candle right here, engulfing the prior two weeks. this is a reversal signal happening right now.

we're a little more than halfway through the week, and if we can get a close in the nasdaq, below 4786, we will have engulfed three weeks. it's like the triple lindy from rodney dangerfield and "back to school," this is a reversal pattern. so the nasdaq, we're on notice for reversal. as we go into apple, i'm concerned about the underperformance of apple relative to the nasdaq. this is the 2015 high. apple never attacked it where the nasdaq clearly has. as we move into apple now, going into earnings, we have a key level. this is a three quarters replacement, us technicians like to look at the three quarter pullback here. this also corresponds to the old high at about 123. the way i like to trade this into earnings, if we get any kind of push into 123.5, i would like to sell it for a short-term trade against the resistance. >> all right. who agrees with todd gordon? >> it's interesting. it was a 52-week high and

probably around the same time last year as we are this year. i think it rallies -- october 25th they reported, 24th? >> 25th. >> i think rally up to 124 and earnings and see what happened. percentage-wise, still rather significant, i think. >> thank you. >> october 25th. nice job on that. >> i said -- i didn't speak -- >> you said october 20-something. >> it is the 25th. let's move on here. >> anyway, not important. my bad. >> go ahead, dan. >> i think his charting makes sense and the stock is getting $100 billion from market cap since early september. they're going to pick up something. i don't know if it's going to be enough to blow out the quarter or the guidance going forward. but, you know, that seems like a good range. i would be very surprised to see it above there. >> the thing about this, the best season ever. through january, you have plenty to reason to see the valuation and growth and iphone 7 refresher, things working for them. i don't even believe that samsung's issues are as big a

deal for pefl apple. so, again, investor versus trader. i don't think you need -- i don't think you need to make this move. >> the samsung news does affect more google than apple. i think apple does get something out of that. when you look, what's really been performing in this market or outperforming? ecosystems, whether talking about amazon, apple, baba, facebook, those would have a huge ecosystem and winning. i do think apple goes higher. >> our thanks to todd gordon at the smartboard. take a look at the shares of wells fargo, still higher. again, off the after market session. highs up 1.6% right now on the bombshell that dropped in the after hours session that is ceo john stumpf is retiring, effective immediately. much more on the fallout for the sector, straight ahead. and what happens if hillary clinton wins the election, and the democrats gain the house and the senate. the details of how likely it is

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shares of wells fargo in the after hours session holding on to gains, up by 1.5% right now on the story of the hour, bombshell development in the wells fargo story. ceo john stumpf announcing his retireme retirement, effective immediately. cnbc's dom chu in the news room with more developments. >> what we have right now, the next stage, we have a statement from one of the spokespersons over at wells fargo saying that, quote, there is no severance payment or agreement related to his departure, john stumpf's departure. there are some retirement benefits detailed in our proxy statement. they are not accessible for the next six months. that's a normal lag time. we asked about what his total takehome would be in retirement and in response, wells fargo said all of our specifics regarding his retirement are spelled out in the proxy statement. i'm just trying to go through some of the proxy statement resources right now, and in the executive compensation side of their most recent 2015

compensation proxy statement, they do go through what some of the benefit plans are with regard to the retirement side of things. they detail out executive compensation that has access to a company 401(k) plan, company cash balance plan, health insurance, life insurance and certain severance plans, employees pay certain cost for health insurance. no employment agreement, severance agreements or golden parachute agreements are part of this as per their proxy. we'll try to go into more detail about this. that's what wells fargo's position is right now with regard to whether or not he will get a golden parachute. they say no, but we'll bring in more details as things develop on our side of things, melissa. back over to you guys at the nasdaq. >> thank you so much, dom chu. so here are the highlights. no golden parachute here. pete, you're making the point he's not the only ceo who made some well-timed transactions surrounding his own stock. >> in the last few months, we have seen some pretty big transactions from mr. stumpf and some. insiders --

>> it could be a planned sale. >> could be and exercising options. but well-timed, given where they were selling at in terms of the price of the stock. and where the stock is now, and obviously the circumstances they face now. >> all right. you may remember out there we interviewed jamie dimon on "power lunch" and he addressed what was going on with wells fargo and specifically mr. stumpf. take a listen. >> john stumpf is a quality human being and a friend of mine. and i hope wells get this problem -- obviously, these problems happen. every bank is questioned about their practice and every bank is going to cooperate. which they should. and in due course, people just -- disclose the positive procedures. i think cool heads should prevail sometimes. >> whatever head prevailed here, again, john stumpf retiring, effective immediately. in terms of the fallout for the entire sector, jamie dimon referenced scrutiny. and you have to wonder in terms of regulations, particularly

during an election season where there is talk about strengthening dodd/frank, whether or not there would be some additional requirements put on bankers for products that should be bought and not sold. if there could be a fiduciary requirement placed on retail bankers, which would completely change the training process, the recruitment process, the pay for these workers. >> who looks like a rabid dog when stumpf was on the hill, elizabeth warren. if democrats take the senate which it looks like they are, is she going to be the chairperson of the banking committee and is this a headwind going forward for the banking sector. to me -- i think that was not something people were considering just a month ago. >> the fact that this is affecting retail customers directly as opposed to an investment banking element i think is going to make this a lot worse. these guys have been bullying people for a long time and they'll get what they have coming to them. earnings season is right back upon us. the equity capital markets business and some of the

underwriting on the debt side has been very, very good. i think there will be a surprise. remember the second quarter. >> it will be interesting to see if anybody comments on what their -- they're going to get the question on the conference call about increased regulation. >> no doubt about it. and the political season, dan points out. that really is a game-changer and could change opinions, i think, as we get into november in terms of my own positions in something like a bank of america or whatever. but you look at what jpmorgan when they report, i think they'll report some pretty interesting numbers, in particular stronger numbers than what we're looking at now just based upon how low the bar is set. >> october 14th, as well? so if karen were here, she would say, and i'm giving props. if they have every reason to kitchen sink -- to extent they can -- no idea if they can or not. to the extent they can, this would be a great quarter to kitchen sink. >> what does it mean for the trade? >> you have to see how the stock reacts if they do that kitchen sink. if it's not a disaster in terms

of stock performance, then maybe we can sit here and say, listen, we know all of the head winds there -- >> this gets you back to a company that maybe didn't deserve to trade at those multiples ever. and, again, this is one of the things we just talked about, dick bove brought it up. you can go back five earnings on the earnings and say this is about loan/loss provisions. we know the deposit base isn't the same. bh maybe not robust after this, as well. >> right. >> i'll just say this. 40% of the xlf is reporting, friday morning. so the way i see it, the xlf is a different percent -- it has lagged the s&p and you may get good results out of jpmorgan and it's also up from the 52-week lows. what if we just get one rate increase in december like last year, and it just doesn't set up great for the banks. maybe jpmorgan makes a new high. wells fargo was the only bank, the only mega cap bank that made a new high following the

financial crisis and look where it is now. so i don't think the banks are that compelling. >> in terms of the scandal specifically for wells fargo, how much does john stumpf's resignation, retirement, whatever you want to call it, how much does that put it in the rear-view mirror? has much changed? >> i think it has changed. i think -- tim points out the retail customers. i think the retail customers -- dan is talking about this gentlemen -- and by the way, he's been there 9 years. so it's not like he's brand new to wells fargo. >> don't you maybe want somebody brand-new? >> maybe. but optically they want to see somebody get taken down that and will be decent. >> so for you, the scandal has receded. >> very much. >> are you left with taking a look at the company whose fundamentals are in question, whose price to book may be too high? >> yes. i agree with all of that. but if they can come out of this thing over the next couple of quarters, that would be very, very impressive. and i think that's something that a lot of people would be willing to bet on, given where

they are. and it's not fundamentally broken. it's just maybe ahead of itself. >> one thing about all of these regulatory investigations and what's going on here -- i'm not going to say this is what's awaiti awaiting mr. stumpf. criminal charges is exactly what they want to see in washington, main street, and let's face it, we got out of the 2008 crisis. who is who of big name ceos were replaced. this is part deax. >> how is sloan not on that menu? i disagree with you. >> optically, it would have been better. but from an investor standpoi standpoint -- >> just bring in all new? and what type of transition/ -- >> you and i will be buddies -- if you gave the over/under in two years -- >> stumpf -- >> much better chance of us not being buddies.

>> focus, people! focus! >> the focus is this. the stock not trading well since the middle of last year. this was a $58 stock in the middle of 2015. which on a decent tape, sideways tape, has been slowly bleeding to the down side. i understand valuations are stretched, maybe still. but if they come out kitchen sink this quarter on friday and the stock doesn't perform terribly, maybe that's a sell you've been looking for. >> to dan who we might not become friends after this -- i don't care what you're saying. the -- who cares off the 52-week low. getting pushed around for oil credit concerns, pushed around for things that really were i think both erroneous and ultimately at a place they made very good money in the second quarter. the valuations as cheap as they have ever been relative to the earnings power. sorry. >> all right. if you are just joining us, here is the bombshell that happened just about 40 minutes ago. ceo john stumpf of wells fargo retiring immediately, will not receive any severance or retirement package, according to

the bank. the stock is higher in the after hours session, although off the highs. still up 1.6%. much more coverage of this story right after this. [pony neighing] what? hey gary. oh. what's with the dog-sized horse? i'm crazy stressed trying to figure out this complex trade so i brought in my comfort pony, warren, to help me deal. isn't that right warren? well, you could get support from thinkorswim's in-app chat. it lets you chat and share your screen directly with a live person right from the app, so you don't need a comfort pony. oh, so what about my motivational meerkat? in-app chat on thinkorswim. only at td ameritrade.

didn't the buck stop with you on this? >> well, of course. it stops with all of us, and especially me. no, i know. i get it. i said right off the bat, i -- when we don't meet our goals of 100% right, i am accountable. and i am leading this company. and leading it forward through this. >> that was former wells fargo ceo, john stumpf, talking to cnbc's jim cramer on "mad money" last month. stumpf announcing his retirement effective immediately, the announcement coming out in the past 45 minutes or so. shares are moving higher in the after market session. we are up here above $46, and it is worth noting that wells fargo shares have not traded above $46 in about three weeks since september 22nd. should we be seeing a bigger reaction in the stock, do you think? i mean, pete, it seems like you think that -- >> i tend to be more bullish than the rest of the desk. i don't know. i think it's from the optic

perspective of people looking for a head to roll that's at the very top. and not the lower end and -- now they actually finally get that and because of that, yes. >> i just think, you know, timing this as a trade versus being an investor y do you need to do anything with this stock before earnings? and ultimately, when the stockstill has a fair amount of issues hanging over it and some questions whether the numbers were going to be as good as they were if they weren't as aggressive as they were with people. i wouldn't do anything. >> yeah. what if we do see a downdraft? let's say it is a kitchen sink quarter? why wouldn't a new ceo do that? they should throw everything out there. >> that's a different story. a couple things. i got an e-mail from doug. i mentioned warren buffett about him potentially commenting. doug just said that buffett wouldn't comment on wells fargo until after the election. does this change? i have no idea. number two, if they kitchen sink it and if the stock doesn't trade terribly, it's all about

tell. maybe that's the tell you've been looking for for wells fargo. i pointed out, the stock has been going other for the last year. >> there is no kitchen sink, it's not happening friday morning. >> why? >> listen, they need to show confidence in their franchise, in their business. so they're not going to just do this optically to say -- it's not a bloodletting, and, again, i'm going to say it. sloan is not enough. he's not the right choice here. so to me if they chose a guy who has been working at the bank three decades -- >> the conspiracy theory would be he resigned effective -- ahead of earnings. >> as a trader, if you sold every conspiracy theory you ever heard, you would make money. i'm just telling you, don't wait for it. >> they have already had an internal call with the top 500 managers and already indicated they expect -- >> banks only trade where they do because of confidence, right? and if they're going to just go out and have some erratic sort of situation here -- we already know what their settlement was. they're not just going to blow up their business just so this guy beat quarters going forward.

>> i don't know what you're saying. you're saying they are trading on confidence but there is not enough confidence until this guy goes? >> what i'm saying is, they're not going to kitchen sink the quarter on friday and we can talk about it friday night. >> you might be spot-on. >> all of you guys, except for me -- pete too. all of you guys are saying don't buy the stock right now anyway. >> bathroom sink, it doesn't matter. there is nothing great to say on friday. there is still a lot of uncertainty. they don't know how it's going to affect their business. >> you guys actually agree on the trade, which is no trade on wells fargo of right now. >> okay. >> is that right? >> except that you disagree on what is going to happen in the next few days. >> ben is certain about what's going to happen on friday's earnings call. >> i don't think he's speaking with certainty. what he's saying is, given -- he thinks it would be really terrible -- there is no way they would kitchen sink this. and there is a very good chance he's right. i brought it up, because i thought it was worth bringing up, that there is a chance -- and all be it a small one.

>> and i thought it was worth rebutting it. >> and that's what we do. >> yes, we do that. >> when you surround the trade. >> you've got to surround the trade. >> still ahead, are wells fargo shares hanging on to the gains, above 46 bucks a share for the first time in about three weeks after ceo john stumpf announcing his retirement a few moments ago. much more coverage on this developing story right after the break.

take a look at shares of wells fargo, holding on to gains up by 1.6% right now on news that broke in just the past 51 minutes that john stuffmpstumpff wells fargo, retiring effective immediately. the bank saying that stumpf will not receive any sort of golden parachute as part of his termination. let's go straight to wilfred foreca frost, who has got an exclusive. will, take it away. >>tician thank you, very much. mr. sloan, thank you very much for your time this evening. i wanted to ask, if i may, to start, if i may, by asking

whether you feel mr. stumpf's departure from wells fargo is a necessary condition for the company to be able to move forward? >> thanks for the question, wilfred. john certainly did. i think john's decision to retire is one that, you know, is clearly sad for all of us at wells fargo, because we think so highly of john and his leadership in the company over the last decade. and longer. but he concluded that this was the right thing to do for the company to allow it to move forward, because he felt that the focus on him was becoming a distraction and hindrance to the operations of the business. >> do you feel sorry for him? has he been made a scapegoat, even though he made this decision himself? >> wilfred john is a friend of mine, and i have been privileged to work with him and for him for a good portion of my career. so there is no question that i

feel sorry for him. and -- but having said that, he wouldn't want any of us to feel sorry for him, because his first -- you know, his focus here was to do the right thing for wells fargo, and that's why he decided to retire. >> so you said he felt it a necessary condition. is it a sufficient condition, in your eyes, of the company to move forward? or is there more to be done? >> oh, there is a lot to be done. wells fargo is a company that's made up of 268,000 team members, all across the country and all across the world. and no one individual is necessarily going to make the difference. we all have to work together to restore the reputation of the company, to continue to focus on moving the company forward. so one person, whether it's john stumpf or candidly, me, is not going to make the difference. >> with that in mind, what are

you planning to do, personally? because clearly, in the eyes of the press and lawmakers, particularly, not enough had been done so far. there was still a lot of pressure on you as a company. what more do you plan to do that mr. stumpf hasn't yet? >> well, john set in motion a significant number of changes, some of which we have announced, specific, for example, in our retail banking business, we have made some changes in terms of our management there. mary mack, who reports to me is head of the community banking business. we have made changes in terms of our incentive system. we have reached out to our customers to make sure they know if they have any concerns how they can contact us. we have remediated and corrected any errors that we have made for any of our customers that we're aware of, and we're going to continue to focus on our

customers as we have for 164 years to bring them the best products and service and convenience that we can. >> we expect, of course, both the senate and the house to still push for more answers. their investigations are not over yet. are you expecting to have to go in front of congress in place of mr. stumpf, who was going to be called back? >> i don't know the answer to that, wilfred. but you are correct. there have been some additional requests for information by both the house and the senate. and we are continuing to comply with providing them answers to whatever questions they have. >> do you feel the lawmakers -- at times have been a bit over the top, particularly that second hearing at times were -- were things were shouted at mr.

stum stumpf, statements made, rather than questions asked? >> i think we were disappointed that the hearings turned into a situation in which there were more speeches given than questions asked. because we felt like there was more answers that we could have provided. but, you know, those hearings are over with, and we're moving on. >> may i just ask, when did you personally find out about this scandal, clearing as your role, head of banking. did you find out at the same time mr. stumpf in 2013? >> you know, wilfred, there is an independent investigation going on on behalf of the board. and i think -- and i want to be very deferential to their process. >> sure. >> i think the important thing is that john has made a very important decision for the company to retire. and i'm in a new role, and we're going to move forward. >> mr. sloan, my colleague, melissa, in the studio, has a question for you before -- a

couple closing questions. >> sure, that's fine. >> tim, just to follow up on wilfred's point, did the former head of retail banking, carrie tolstedt, did she ever report directly to you? >> she did. i was named president and chief operating officer in november of last year, and at that point, carrie reported directly to me. >> i presume you did read "the los angeles times" back in 2013, so you were aware of what was going on allegedly at the bank. >> correct. i recall that story. that's correct. >> did you think that it was something that -- i mean, you're a 29-year veteran at wells fargo, and i ask this question, mainly because investors are wondering if your appointment as ceo does turn the painful page on the scandal, tim. >> i think the answer to that is we're going to determine in a few months and a few years from now. i don't think one day or an hour after this was announced that is going to answer that question.

so we'll see. >> mr. sloan, if i jump back in again, i suppose i wanted to ask whether you're hopeful that the earnings that you'll be releasing on friday will help you to draw a line under the share price pressure you've felt. because clearly, this has been a massive pr issue for you, so far. but do you hope that friday will prove this isn't a numbers and earnings issue for you. of. >> well, i do. but i need to be very careful, because we're two days before we announce our earnings, and anyin tonation in my voice or excitement or disappointment may lead anybody to conclude something inappropriate. you will find out friday morning. we look forward to talking to our investors, just like we do every quarter. >> and one -- two more final questions. if there are further investigations, particularly into mr. stumpf, possibly

criminal, as has been called for by mr. senators, does the bank's opted departure cause you to stand closely by him, or is he on his own? >> i think that is a topic to -- for the board to review. i'm not aware of any criminal investigations that are going on right now. to mr. stumpf. >> my final question for you, mr. sloan. you said in a press release it was, quote, a privilege to have the opportunity to lead one of america's most storied companies. is this a proud moment for you or a sad moment for you? >> it's a sad -- that's a very fair question. it's a sad moment, because john stumpf is retiring in a situation that i think he would have never imagined. and he has done such a great job in managing this company, notwithstanding some of things that i think he wished he would have done differently. that's what makes it sad.

having said that, i feel a great responsibility, and i'm looking forward to being ceo of this company. we have an amazing -- 164-year history. and we are not going to to allow the last five weeks to define the success -- the future success of a very well regarded and well known 164-year-old company. >> mr. sloan, thank you very much for your time. we really appreciate the call. congratulations on the appointment albeit in those sad circumstances you mentioned. mr. sloan, ceo of wells fargo joining us. melissa, i'll send it back to you. >> thank you. >> tim sloan, the new ceo of wells fargo and of course our own wilfred frost for bringing that exclusive to "fast money." what do we make of mr. sloan's performance here? >> i thought he was very diplomatic, and i thought he did a nice job, frankly, of not selling people down the river. i think it's a very difficult ti