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tv   Fast Money  CNBC  October 21, 2016 5:00pm-5:31pm EDT

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i don't know what happens, but -- >> but what does that have to do with the euro being 108 versus the dollar? >> they can't control the markets any more. none of the central banks. the dollar and the euro are going to go where they're going to go. >> watching that one closely for signs of ripples. thanks for joining us. have a great weekend. that does it for us. "fast money" begins now. "fast money" starts right now. live from the nasdaq market site overlooking new york city's times square, i'm melissa lee. your traders on the desk, dan nathan, karen finerman, tim seymour and guy adami. at&t in talks to buy time warner. the man all over this developing story, cnbc's andrew roth sorkin. >> we have a deal that could be imminent perhaps before the opening bell on monday. the companies, both sides, working feverishly to try to complete a deal so they can announce something monday over the weekend. they have been working with
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their advisers and my understanding is the boards are expected to meet this weekend, assuming that they get -- they get to some final numbers. one of the big issues, by the way, that's been on the table, and i know a lot of investors are going to be looking at is the breakup fee in a transaction like this. given the regulatory pressures that have been on so many of these mega mergers. historically, there have been big breakup fees involved. the time warner cable transaction, of course, fell apart with comcast. there was no breakup fee in that transaction. so this is going to be a big question. not necessarily a sticking point, but something that has been discussed at great length. the other thing that everybody is talking about as a result of this, if -- assuming it happens, is who else is in play and what happens next. i reported earlier today, but this puts enormous pressure and you're already feeling it internally at cbs and vio come to make that deal. that is potentially on course. you watch the stocks and so many other media companies today
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really rocket on this news on the idea that there could be just a bevy of transactions that come after this, all of which, of course, we will watch very, very closely. >> andrew, with the breakup fee include a scenario in which the fcc or doj rejects the deal? >> and that is the question. of course. and, yes, that is what's on the table here, which is how much -- how much will at&t ultimately have to pay. remember, by the way, at&t has done deals before that have been rejected. so at&t went after t-mobile, if you remember, and the government blocked that deal. and they paid a breakup fee for that. so there's going to be -- that's going to be the big question, where the regularities are on monday. whether companies like netflix and others come out against a transaction like this or not. which is what happened in the case of when comcast and time warner cable came together. a lot of interesting bedfellows
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in this, and we will watch it as you would imagine, very, very closely. >> andrew, it's karen. there's talk about them wanting to push this deal through, or sign up the deal very quickly. but as a prevention from others jumping in, there is no hurdle to others jumping in, right? >> well, the other piece of it, and we don't know this, whether there is going to ultimately be something called a go shop in this transaction. which would potentially allow other bidders to emerge afterwards. the folks that i talk to this afternoon clearly, at&t does not want to go shop. i don't know the state of where that provision is or is not at this very moment. there have been some reports that apple had raised this issue about potentially acquiring time warner in the past several months. google, apparently, not interested in adeal. unclear where the interest would come from at this moment. but yes, it is possible you could see a deal on a monday morning and potentially others come in afterward. but we don't know that yet.
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so we should be very, very careful and cautious there. >> and in terms of the price, andrew, your reporting indicates somewhere north of 90. >> they are seeking more than 90. clearly more than 90. i don't have a final number. i've been trying. let me tell you. i've been trying. to know avail. just to contextlize this now. i have heard from several sources. the previous deal, which they rejected from 21st century fox, which is important, was at $85 a share. and they wanted something north of $100 a share at that time. so just to give you a little bit of perspective of where the numbers could ultimately come, and at least what they're asking for. >> sure. andrew, thank you so much. andrew roth sorkin with the latest on this. we should note it could be somewhere up to $110 a share. here we have the stock trading in the after hours session north of 90. so with this said, guy, i didn't get your take yesterday. >> because i wasn't here! you couldn't get my take,
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because i wasn't here. >> i could have asked you -- >> very difficult for you. >> what do you think? >> well, what do i think about this space now? >> this deal, and the implications for this space. >> the implications for this deal means that disney should have rallied more than it did. so it concerns me that disney on a day where the entire space is higher. >> it shouldn't be a takeout target, should it? >> no, but just with -- rising tides lift all boats. look at the entire space above 2.5%, disney up 2%. that kerngs me going in earnings. what does that say? we're going to find out. flex is up 30 up give or take this week and we have been talking about this for a while. but does this now -- the bull's eye that was on netflix prior to, does this really home in a bulls-eye on netflix. a netflix deal would be ridiculous ridiculously expensive on any number of metrics. but i still say netflix is really hard, as many people want to say there's competition out there, it's really hard to replicate what they have built. so maybe somebody out there will take a flier on netflix and the
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stock actions suggest that's the case. >> what's interesting, we learned that apple had been interested in one point in time warner, to the contrary at this point. that indicates that perhaps apple is in the market. or actually large content sort of deal. >> no, they can could absolutely. it makes sense, logically. i just don't know they take that stand yet. this telephone deal, though, it's ridiculous. it doesn't make sense from my perspective to pay a boatload of money for this company where you could license this content. i think, in general, it really puts the shareholders that own at&t in a very difficult position. the shareholders of at&t look at this -- as at&t going outside their comfort zone. from the core shareholders of at&t in the scenario. >> i would just say the likelihood of this deal getting done is not particularly great. so i think that some of the stuff i read today is about a 50/50. back in 2011, they had to pay t-mobile $6 million. and that was considered a huge sum at the time.
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the directv deal they closed i think a little more than a year ago, it actually did not have a breakup fee, if the regulators struck it down. which is pretty interesting when you think about it. so i assume that it's going to be something in between that. but the likelihood of this thing is happening is not great. and then you have to look at the other stuff. what are the other deals that happened? we know that, you know, at&t already went after directv. now they want content. is there any other play hookup in the space? maybe charter goes after tell co. >> how do you feel about this deal, karen? >> for cotent, makes it more valuable. is there somewhere else to go besides netflix being up huge and before this week started, expensive now. i wonder if a lions gate -- your friend michael burns finds himself, you know -- everyone wanting to talk to him. so content is king. there -- that's an interesting little niche. >> we saw the likes of a lions
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gate on discovery, all popping up on today's news. let's bring in top media analyst, struggling to see thelagic behind a deal, craig moffitt. why are you so skrept skeptical? >> it's easy to imagine why there is sort of lodgic in medi. the problem is laws prohibit you from doing anything interesting. so you have program access rules that say you can't keep any content proprietary. so you have to make your time warner content available to your competitors on an equal basis. so you can't put it over directv exclusively, can't put it over at&t wireless exclusively. at the same time you have the net neutrality rules that say you can't zero rate and count outside your data caps for at&t wireless. so you end up with this kind of very flimsy logic. what you end up with is i own some stuff over here and over there, and they run alongside each other. >> let me ask this, though.
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in a world where all of these services -- there is so much pricing pressure on all of them. and a lot have become utilities. is it just the cross-selling opportunities? is it just take all these massive different businesses, cable, tellco, content and provide -- >> you could go -- what you mean is reduce the price of selling it to the consumer. >> prices are going down, no matter what. what i'm saying is reduce the costs of actually -- >> how do you reduce cost? it reduces price. but it doesn't reduce the cost. it reduces the price. so you can get some churn benefit, because you lowered the price. but you can get some churn benefit without buying the company and just lower the price. so a lot of the logic of this stuff doesn't hold up when you really poke at it, right? >> okay. so at&t is a widely held stock. held now -- probably a big reason is the dividend. it's got, what, $7 billion of cash on hand. it's a very levered company. >> yeah. >> going to pay for in cash in stock, potentially. >> i would suspect it's not very
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much cash. because at&t looks like it's levered at about 2.3 times. got about $120 billion of debt on the balance sheet. there's another $80 billion of debt not on the balance sheet. so count all of the operating leases for salio towers, s&p and moody's have already started doing that. count the unfunded pension obligations. count the time and health care benefits and you're up to $200 billion and you're levered at three-and-a-half times. >> is there any risk to the dividend? >> no, i don't think so. and that's why, frankly, i don't think that investors, truth be told, are going to care that much one way or another. they're going to look at the dividend and say it's about the same as it was before, what do i care? but the strategic logic of this is tough to find. >> isn't there a stock issue -- more expensive for them? >> there is, because the data. our guess is you probably can't lever the acquired ebitda.
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you've got 6 to $10 million of additional borrowing capacity on the new cash flows. you're talking about doing $70 billion of this or something in equity. and when you do that, you're issuing another $3.5 billion of dividend obligation. so -- so your dividend payout ratio is probably not going to change one scintilla. it's going to be exactly where it was before and you're going to have more stuff. if you want to diversify away from wireless, because you don't like the wireless business, and let's be honest, the wireless business is shrinking 3 to 4% right now for at&t and verizon. there is some logic for saying i want to go somewhere else. but it's not industrial logic that says if i own this and i own this, 1 plus 1 equals 3. it's 1 plus 1 equals 2 and it's good or bad. >> across the media sector, do you buy the idea some of them are targets? >> no, not really. you know, i think you have to think case by case. i understand the logic of the
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viacom assets coming together with cbs. that is a different case. but when you start saying there's going to be some setting off this events in media acquisition, i don't see it. >> so this deal -- if this deal got done, that could be it in the space. it's not a wave -- >> doesn't say there is no other media consolidation. just this deal isn't logically a catalyst for other media consolidation. there's lots of other follow-on things, though. if at&t buys this, they probably can't bid for spectrum from dish. and then if verizon ever does want dish and spectrum, there is nobody to bid against. that's bad news for dish. it's -- if comcast decides to counter bid, comcast is never going to go for t-mobile. so that's bad news for t-mobile. so you're seeing all of those kinds of -- chess pieces moving around as people think about what happens here. >> craig, thanks a lot for joining us. appreciate it. craig moffitt. moffitt nathanson. ripple effect.
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>> if it happens, i think ciena is the name you want to own. distributor for telephone. i don't think -- i agree with you. i don't think it's going to happen. it doesn't make sense logically. license the content, don't go out and buy that content. and think about growth somewhere else. this is a no-growth company. >> and the regulatory risk is -- >> regulatory risks are there. but i wouldn't step in here at all in at&t. >> if i were a shareholder of at&t should i be worried? >> i believe you should be worried because it's going to be a lot of it done with stock, to your point. i think the stock has gotten ahead of itself in the first place, because people were pouring into the high dividend paying out names. at&t being one of them. i do think their business is probably in decline. so if the deal gets done, yeah, i think you could see it continue to move lower in the shares. >> okay. tonight on "fast," shirs of twitter suddenly spiking today. is there a buyer who wants to take the risk? we have details. plus, moments of truth. apple, amazon, alphabet, are
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traders betting on ahead of the reports. and shares of tesla pennies away from doing something very scary. what it is and how you can profit. much more "fast money," straight ahead. beeping] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ look out honey... the highly advanced audi a4. ♪ ♪ ain't got time to make no apologies... ♪
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welcome to "fast money." twitter shares sushlging into the close today. our own julia boorstin sat down with marc benioff who had interesting things to say about the company. julia. >> melissa, twitter's wild ride, the volatile stock rising 7%. last month, it was benioff's salesforce that was floated as a potential buyer. so i asked salesforce ceo, marc benio benioff, why he decided not to pursue a buyout of the struggling social media company. >> our stockholders heard that we were involved in a process, and they made it very clear that they did not want us to buy that company. and to -- so very specifically, we had to walk away. that's all. i love the ceo. i love the company. i love the brand. i love everything about twitter. but our stockholders don't. and i listen to them.
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they're an important part of our family and how we do business at salesforce. >> now, benioff isn't the only billionaire who weighed in on twitter takeover speculation today. former microsoft ceo, steve bomber, here's what he said earlier on "squawk box" when asked if he was ever interested in acquiring twitter. >> i have never, ever, ever wanted to buy twitter myself. i mean, come on. i've got a good life right now. i don't need to do that. >> even with today's jump into the close, twitter stockstill down more than 20%. twitter reports earnings next thursday and ceo jack dorsey will surely face questions from analysts whether the company is for sale. find more from my interview with marc benioff on cnbc.com. melissa? >> thank you very much, julia boorstin. he's going to face questions from analysts. he's already facing ire from investors. >> let me tell you something. that says more about marc
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benioff than it does about twitter. i'll tell you why. mark zuckerberg, larry page, they would have done -- they wouldn't have listened to a topple top holders. it says more -- >> so if he thought that was the best thing for the company -- >> the guy already bought $5 billion worth of overpriced assets. i'm sure he can afford another one. don't forget that microsoft -- a money-losing company for seven-time sales and everyone is talking about how expensive twitter is that trades a little below -- >> the biggest acquisition it would do -- isn't that a little different? >> why would they consider a higher bid, outbidding mirkt microsoft for linked in it says more about benioff. >> i think you're dead wrong on that. i'll tell you why. that linked in deal made sense. when they made that bid, what happened to the stock? the stock got smacked. every shareholder says it's the purest play out there and we like it for what they're doing.
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what is that signalling about growth. >> that started the whole spur. twitter, i mean, come on. if they want twitter's data, they could buy it, just like at&t could buy time warner's. >> i've got to disagree totally. when you look at zuckerberg and page, they own huge chunks of stock. huge. they're in a control position. they can do that. i think benioff showed some good discipline. i think he should be -- i think he should be applauded for that. you just heard -- >> guy, do you guess agree also? >> jumping on -- >> no, i'm in your grill. everybody makes an excellent point about the subject. >> who's point is the most excellent? >> they're all slept points. there is no most. >> come on. >> i understand what dan is saying. i think the fact he took shareholder -- i think it was more an ego thing. he saw his stock, which is, by the way -- has had a pretty difficult year. remember the move earlier in the year down to 60 bucks, subsequent rally. this moved down to 68.
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and i think, yes, he heard shareholders' concerns. but just on an ego thing, this is the first time his stock has sort of wavered now since inception. >> when facebook had half the market cap it did, two years ago, they paid $22 billion for what's app, a company with a couple dozen employees and no sales and never looked back. >> the company has no growth here. you have to cut costs and dump a boatload of money into twitter. >> i don't think salesforce would have been the right buyer, anyway. so i'm just telling you that. but -- >> are you saying he's a bad ceo because he listened to shareholders? >> i'm telling you and i've been saying for a couple months. something is going on at salesforce. why do they need to do that, why do they need to bid -- outbid microsoft, why do they need to look at twitter. why does the stock keep going down. >> that's right. next week is the busiest week of the earnings season with the biggest names in tech from alphabet to apple reporting. which name traders see having the biggest move. i'm melissa lee, you're watching
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"fast money" on cnbc, first in business worldwide.. here's what else is coming up on "fast." if you thought this was bad for tesla shares, wait until you see what some traders expect ahead of earnings next week. we'll explain. plus, high-tech fashion. there's some very odd happens in the world of fashion. and a handful of stocks are ready to cash in on the trend. the names, when "fast money" returns. sing girl, come on. ♪[ singing ]♪ sorry, ariana you gotta go. seriously? verizon limits me and i gotta get home. you're gonna choose navigation over me? maps get up here. umm... that way. girl! you better get on t-mobile! why pay more for data limits? introducing t-mobile one, unlimited data for everyone. get four lines just $35 a month.
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welcome back to "fast money." silicon valley getting a makeover. the area known for technology is looking to make its mark on fashion. aditi roy has the details and joins us now from san francisco. aditi. >> that's right, melissa.
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silicon valley isn't exactly known for their setting style trends but in keeping with its reputation for innovation, the fashion show kicked off in cutting-edge style. take a look. ♪ >> yes, that was a drone coming down the cat walk last night. tech and fashion converged at the second annual event. l.e.d. lights woven into clothes and headpieces and even purses. also transformed ordinary t-shirts into electrifying art pieces. at times, the show resembled a cirque du soleil show with acrobatics. one of the presentations was a man dressed as a human claw. and human unicorns paid homage to their counterparts as 500 onlook leers gaukd and snapped with their smartphones, no doubt tweeting, posting and instagramming. beta brand relies on crowd funding to decide whether it makes its way into production. the majority of pieces were just
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for show, but silicon valley designers sold to lady gaga, missy elliot and ma dana, all fashion-forward ladies. >> too fashion forward for me, at least. aditi, thank you. we want to stay on this fashion runway theme here. these are names ahead of the trends and worth the buy now. we're going to the chicest of them all, dan nathan. >> yeah, right. you know who they say in the valley is chic, jack dorsey. they say how he dresses and ceo of square. the mobile payments company and i think there will be a long runway for hardway. >> karen. >> chic for kids. well-priced for the kids, parents and the stock. children's place. >> look at you on "vogue." >> i like the adidas trend, slept company, taking north american share. adidas is a buy. >> that's really unbelievable. cover of "vogue."
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guy. >> you can't spell chic without children's place somewhere. >> interesting. >> and you can't spell chico's without chic. see what i did? >> time warner up 5%. stay tuned. "options action"s starts right after this break. your insurance company won't replace the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says you picked the wrong insurance plan. no, i picked the wrong insurance company. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, you won't have to worry about replacing your car
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hey, live at the nasdaq market site this friday. here's what's coming up on the show. shares of biotech stocks have been doing something very funky ahead of next week's earnings. we'll tell you what that is. and how you can profit. plus -- here's what some traders have betting could happen to tesla shares next week. and if they're right, we have a way to triple your money. and -- ♪ fire >> one dow stock has been on fire. but there's something in the charts that suggests a run might be done. we'll tell you what that

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