welcome back i asked my father, apparently if you're rehabbing a house you can apparently take a loan out of your 401(k) for more than five years. >> you're paying yourself back >> michael, thank you. that does it for "closing bell" today. "fast money" begins right now. "fast money" starts right now. live from the nasdaq market site, i'm melissa lee. tonight on fast, high hopes for tax reform treasury secretary steven mnuchin spoke to our own steve leesman. >> we expect the house and senate will get this to the senate to sign this year we couldn't be more excited about the progress we've made. >> jim said not so fast. he'll be here to explain why he says there's no chance of a tax plan for this year

plus, infamous short seller andrew has a new target. why he thinks the bitcoin is one of the most dangerous trades in the market apple making it official sending out invites for the big iphone 8 unveiling with the stock up 10% just in the last month, will it be a news event we start off with drugs and money. health care, the best forming record, now the second biggest sector of the s&p 500. big pharma, and big biotech, check out moves in the names like pfizer, bristol-myers, eli lily, plus gilead continue their run. so is health care where you want to be right now? which is the better bet? big pharma or big biotech? >> i got myself in trouble last time -- >> no, no, i permit you to answer the question open >> it's a -- >> is it a plug? >> yes

i think we sell. biotech over regular tech. it's proven to be right at least for 24 hours but we've got to whittle it down i'll play the whittle it down game with you. at this point in the cycle, i would go big cap pharma. not to suggest that biotech is done by any stretch. i still think there's a lot of runway left. however, look at some of these big cap pharma names that are just starting to move. you mentioned pfizer pfizer 13 times forward earnings is really interesting in an environment we find ourselves in tim mentioned johnson & johnson for a long time. if you like procter & gamble at 10 times forward earnings, in my opinion you've got to love j & j at 17. it's a consumer products company. those two stocks have gone up real well. >> they also have nice dividends. >> they do the last strength that we've seen in the ibb is obviously through the m & a activity

i wouldn't be jumping on this bandwagon now. although it's extremely volatile you have tremendous upside you run the risk of having tremendous downside as well. i would be in pharma. >> two pharmas on this end, karen, what do you say >> i don't have much exposure in this space the whole environment is better, however. to the extent they want to sell assets to pay down debt, that's clearly better for them. i'm always afraid of having a stock and waking up with some sale drug. for me, if you want to play it, you have to go in the etf, the xpi is far more biotechie's fault, much more weighted. if you want to get a mix of the -- go the ibp. >> to me, if you think about biotech and think about the cycle that this entire sector has been on for the last three years, for the last couple, especially some of the bigger cap names, but not all of them have traded, i think, with at least some overhang which is not only drugpricing but also in

the case of gilead and what's going to be the good m & a does j & j have to run hard into immunotherapy, and could it create a bidding war and something that might actually be viewed as negative by investors? i think right now there's still interesting valuations in big cap biotech. i don't think they have the same target on their back that some people think they do gilead is a name that after 35% move in 51 days, i mean, it's had an extraordinary run but again, the valuation to me is still very defendable. >> we talked about biotech being in the scope or target zone for d.c. it is a bipartisan concern but they're so distracted right now. you might get a little more longevity to that ibb trade. but if you want a more muted approach, xlv has both biotech and pharma, up 60% year-to-date. that might be a riskier way to play it, an unriskier way to

play it. >> safer way to play it? >> terrible way to put it. i guess if you want to say that. >> you know, when you take a look at the big biotech, you can look at gilead announcing that it -- really, sort of off to the races, here we go. gilead right now, they've added more in market cap than they paid for, for pharma maybe gilead will do some more maybe there's more m & a for the rest of the group. >> i agree, listen, the lantern -- the spotlight is now on biotech in a meaningful way given the gilead deal. you're a hundred percent right but when the ibb was trading 260 or so, i remember we had many conversations on this desk, the ibb has held 250 all through 2016 as long as it holds these levels, it should be fine, through 300. it's a breakout. quite frankly, that's pretty

much exactly what's happened this rally has been going on for the last six or seven months i do think biotech still has some upside. gilead is completely overpaid for kip. but i think what the market is saying, you finally put your balance sheet to work. you're taking a shot with something that can have a tremendous upside and we'll give you the benefit of the doubt which i think puts everything else in play look what blue bird has done >> but i don't think you buy individual names the blue bird is an immunotherapy target juneo, those type of things. when you look at the ibb, it's up year-to-date. >> your point in terms of the xpi, the fundamental difference between ibb and xpi, it leans much more heavily towards the larger players like amgen -- >> exactly >> is that good or bad >> it depends.

on your perception. >> you know, the long long the sort of texas hedge. that was the good way to go. it did seem to start, the bell rang and everybody felt like, all right, they're doing it, we've got to do it it's going to be -- everybody's looking for deals. it's time to jump in while we can. >> right >> sometimes the animal spirit of ceos decide, we've got to go now. >> if you get a tiny bit of tax reform, where companies can bring money back, think of how much money in this particular sector could come back that's dying to come back >> and i think it would also reignite some of the animal spirits in terms of these guys going out to do what they do that's why you need to take taxes company. you need to let companiesbe rewarded for doing enormous things that's what's going on in the immunotherapy. as we just said, the good news is that those are great balance sheets you're not overpaying. there's decent dividend yields i think that's why you should stay near the top end of that

bracket. >> the hospitals have really lagged it's not a great scenario out there either way for them. that part, i wouldn't be in there. >> stay away, all right. >> to throw a quick monkey wrench -- >> oh, yes, we like wrenches. >> you have to sort of mix it up >> bad time, buddy, bring it. >> ken frazier from merck was the first person to step down from president trump's, whatever, advisory board of ceos and the president went after him pretty vociferously on twitter, either that day or the next day. that thing has been said since, but i've got to believe president trump -- >> are you talking about he'll have more time bringing down drug prices at merck. >> very long memory. my concern would be if the president were to get him through some of the things he's working on now, does he circle back at some point. >> and have it be his headlines, novartis, at $475,000. >> just throwing it out there. >> yeah, i get it.

>> throwing it out there >> a wrench that should be out there. thanks for putting it out there. coming up, the trump administration said tax reforms and tax cuts are just around the corner but jim vandehei says not so fast andrew said this trade is about to come crashing down. he's here to explain why. the moment of truth for apple. unveiling the highly anticipated iphone 8 all the details on much more "fast money" ahead ♪ ♪ keep your insights from prying eyes, so they won't be used by anyone but you. the ibm cloud. the cloud for enterprise. yours.

your bbut as you get older,ing. it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember.

the trump agenda so far, steven mnuchin is confident when it comes to tax reform. steve leesman spoke to him today and he joins us now. hi, steve. >> hey, melissa. the tax plan cometh says steve mnuchin the treasury secretary in the exclusive interview with cnbc, he said despite the criticism that president trump went out touting a plan that

said that withoutdetail of the tax plan, he says would have a plan there are details coming in a few weeks. >> originally our goal had been august unfortunately things got delayed a bit. but we're on a track to get this done by the end of the year. so you're going to see the details come out later this month. it's going to go through a committee process. and we expect the house and the senate will get this to the president to sign this year. and we couldn't be more excited about the progress we've made. >> now, investors have been skeptical about the possibility of tax reform and tax cuts this year, and they've actually awaited details of that plan the biggest one of all the corporate tax rate which president trump wants to set at 15%. i asked the treasury secretary of reports if the real rate under discussion was more like 20% to 25% here's what he said. >> the president made very clear that that was our goal during the campaign when we came out with a plan earlier in the administration, we said that and our objective is to get down to 15%

wherever we end up, the objective is to get a competitive business rate. >> a few other highlights of the interview, he said that debt ceiling will be hit september 29th, but aid for hurricane harvey could have an impact when they hit that ceiling and he's working with the federal reserve on financialregulatory reform, and not decided on the harriet tubman being on the $20 bill they were going to take andrew jackson, put him on the back and him on one side. mnuchin just had breakfast with janet yellen and downplayed the difference over the fed and the treasury. >> secretary mnuchin about the weak u.s. dollar, what exactly -- it's always been a stance of the treasury secretary to say a strong u.s. dollar is great for america, et cetera here we are, and the dollar is extremely weak. >> i kind of thought his answer was very interesting rather than say that in a strong dollar makes the economy strong,

he said the strong dollar reflects a strong economy, or investor sentiment about a strong economy and i'm not going to argue with the guy. he's spent a long time on wall street -- >> so the dollar that we have that is weak, a dollar index we have that is, what -- >> now, don't jump to conclusions. the treasury secretary said over the long term. >> oh, okay. >> you go through these ups and downs. we know currency traders are among the more excitable on the trading desks out there. we'll not make short-term economic conclusions to what's happening now. the treasury secretary over the long term, said it reflects investor sentiment about the underlying economics of a country. >> are you surprised this administration likes to talk about the dollar, and bottom line, if the dollar sold off today, when we got detail, it wasn't so detailed >> so, i'm -- i don't know if i'm proud to say this, but secretary mnuchin is the tenth treasury secretary that i have interviewed. going way back to -- >> very proud.

>> very long time. and i have never been impressed with the comments on the dollar. i think the dollar is an important thing to talk about. it has something to do with people's lives and how they live i welcome a little bit the secretary's different take on it i'm not sure it's the right take, but i think it's okay to talk about the dollar because it affects companies, it affects consumers. it has overall macro economic effects. and you ask the fed about the dollar, and of course, they have an impact on it. they say, ask the treasury secretary. and the treasury secretary would say nothing. so i'm all for people talking about stuff that matters and i never really was a big fan of the ruben rule on that. >> he seemed to hedge a tiny bit on the 15%. >> yeah, you picked up on it. >> what? >> you picked up on it. >> do you think this administration is so desperate for a win, that they will -- they'll get anything done, kind of no matter how watered-down it is just to say we've passed something in 2017, and then second, would that be

retroactive to january 1 >> i would say that's a little pessimistic how you put that, or a little cynical here's what i think. 15 is a goal that the president would like it makes the united states very competitive. i think the president will take almost anything. we actually have had debates about this some people would say the president, he said 15, he wants 15 but you're right i would point out the president on thursday are said, ideally it should be 15 indicating that maybe he's got a little play with this. but i also know from talking to treasury secretaries and presidents, you can't negotiate ahead of time. you can't negotiate in the press. you go into the fight with 15. if you end up with 20 to 25, that's still an improvement. even 28 which was the democrats' proposal in the last congress, in the last administration, that would be improvement get a piece of it, come back another time and get a piece of it not crazy. i think the bigger question here is not the rate. the bigger question that i know

it's hard for everybody to handicap is the process. do they have a process that can lead them to bring the house, the congress, and the senate, the administration together to make a deal. >> all right steve, great interview thank you. >> thanks. >> when it comes to tax reform by the end of the year, the next guest says not so fast jim vandehei joins us with a wakeup call for the white house. all right. so what was your take? and do you think that they're, as karen put it, desperate to get something done to get some of the major things they were going after, like a 15% corporate tax rate >> no doubt they're desperate to get something done they're not going to get 15% i don't know anybody involved in the process can do it with anything they can pretend to be deficit neutral, and get it that low. that's what they said their stated goal on that. talk to people involved in the process, they think they'll end up somewhere in the 20s if they end up getting a deal.

on the time line, it's increasingly difficult to get done this year they'll not be able to do anything in september. september will be eaten up dealing with the debt limit, and deal with taking some of the funding and getting it to the folks that have been hit by disaster in texas in particular. that pushes you a month beyond once the plan comes out, not having details right now, is hurting them there's conservatives in the house who you think are just going to vote for this, who are livid. they feel like they've been shut out of the process they feel like they're going to see a plan that's too weak, that's too much of a compromise. they're not just going to say, yes, sir, we love your plan, we love any type of tax cut there is a specific tax cut they would like to see. this is much more complex than people think a lot of people involved in the process think that, yes, something gets done. it's not going to be as ambitious and big as people would hope and doesn't get done until q1 of next year, when you

factor in all the things the congress has to do and factor in president trump has a way of taking something clean and easy and make it more complicated that becomes a distraction for capitol hill. >> what about mid-term elections? i don't think this gets done, period you have a fractured republican party. doesn't want to do anything ahead of those elections so it's more divisive than it ever was before. it's more fractured than it ever was before we have a white house talking us and them and they own it. i don't think it ever gets done. so is there a possibility we just start to see things chasing their tail here? because mr. mnuchin is talking about how proud he is. and they've made progress. but he's not talking about congress. >> no doubt that it's a possibility. the reason i disagree with you that it doesn't get done, i wouldn't say -- i would bet that it does get done in some shape or form. think about the raw politics of it you're basically giving something here not like health care where you're taking something away

you're probably giving the corporations a tax cut and probably see a reduction in some of the brackets. especially for middle income and low income earners so politically, that's easier to do and it's also harder to resist we assume democrats won't vote for anything i don't know if i want to be a democrat sitting in the senate up for reelection in a state that donald trump won by double digits and say, you know what, i oppose a tax cut so if this thing is what i think it will ultimately be, which is less ambitious than everyone anticipated or what trump had outlined as a candidate, it's possible that you do get some democrats in the senate behind it so i think that they have to get this done. if you think about the stakes for donald trump, if he goes through the end of this year, and into next year, and has nothing, no health care reform, no infrastructure, no tax cuts, it would be an embarrassment for the republican party for crying out loud, they have full party control so yes, they might have some division but if the republican party with full party control can't get a tax cut through?

they should get out of the political business >> jim, one of the linchpins of this tax reform is somebody that's been in the news a lot, gary cohen, going to be interviewed tomorrow on cnbc what are you hearing about what's going on there? >> yeah, you guys are nailing it, by the way getting these very important interviews at the right time gary spoke his mind, no doubt the president was hacked off that he would say something publicly that undermined the president. at the same time, like you saw the marks move, for crying out loud, that people thought gary cohn might leave that's very rare for somebody that's not the principal, not the president to move a market so it shows how important he is internally so his standing is fine. and he's definitely the driver on this tax plan and he has himself fully invested in this remember, he's at war with his family, with his friends, sticking it out, saying i'm there because i'm going to get tax reform so he is the person to keep an eye on, him and mnuchin obviously from the white house perspective. that is the game those are the players.

but remember, they have to be able to work with paul ryan in particular, and mitch mcconnell. there is a frayed relationship between trump and mcconnell. at the end of the day, those four have to come together on a plan that does reduce rates. it doesn't have to be all the way down to 15%. it has to reduce rates it probably has to cut away at least some loophole so you can save or pay for parts of the tax plan they have to hope they get the economic boost from it if they do that, that puts republicans in a heck of a lot better position than they are today, which is they've got nothing to show for all republican rule. >> jim, thank you. always great to get your take. >> take care. >> what do you think >> well, this feels a little bit different, and a little bit more organized and a slightly different approach two committees working together. the ways and means committee is very important at least get something that's more tolerable dynamic scoring is not going to work, though it has to show more revenue

neutrality you can't say we're going to deliver this growth down the road so it will equal this amount of taxes we wouldn't have had. i think the easiest thing to do is some corporate tax cut as we've said on the show that's not 15, but somewhere -- also to get the offshore money back onshore, that to me is almost found money. >> let's say it's 20 it's probably not going to be 15, not many people think it's going to be 15 is that still good for the market >> i think so. because i don't think the market has -- i mean, a little bit of enthusiasm, but we're far from the finish line here so i think that that would be good for the market. i think that they will get something done they absolutely have to. it almost doesn't matter what it is and he'll declare victory, whether it's a victory or not, it doesn't matter, you have to get something done. >> i think jim put it very well, he said if the republicans can't get something passed, get out of the political business >> get out of the political business oh, i see.

hyperbole. >> exactly. >> talking about health care much more difficult than giving tax cuts >> here you're giving something theoretically. coming up, it was a call heard all around wall street steve grasso said one stock is about to double. but the other traders, they aren't having it we'll tell you the name later this hour. you're watching "fast money. in the meantime, here's what else is coming up on fast. it's coming. the new iphone and we'll tell you what it could mean for shares of apple plus -- andrew left said gray scale's bitcoin trust is the most dangerous product in the market he'll explain why when "fast money" returns minutes. that guests would compliment our wifi. that we could video conference... and do it like that. (snaps)

if you'd have told me that i could afford... a gig-speed. a gig-speed network. it's like 20 times faster than what most people have. i'd of said... i'd of said you're dreaming. dreaming! definitely dreaming. then again, dreaming is how i got this far. now more businesses in more places can afford to dream gig. comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. now more businesses in more places can afford to dream gig. and the wolf huffed like you do sometimes, grandpa? well, when you have copd, it can be hard to breathe.

it can be hard to get air out, which can make it hard to get air in. so i talked to my doctor. she said... symbicort could help you breathe better, starting within 5 minutes. symbicort doesn't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms. symbicort helps provide significant improvement of your lung function. symbicort is for copd, including chronic bronchitis and emphysema. it should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol increase the risk of death from asthma problems. symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. you should tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. symbicort could mean a day with better breathing. watch out, piggies! (child giggles) symbicort. breathe better starting within 5 minutes. get symbicort free for up to one year. visit saveonsymbicort.com today to learn more.

this is kool and the gang. >> it's neither koolo -- it's a gang >> yh.ea fresh, exciting. connell on >> 30 years ago? oh, that's really attached. that's why i rent from national. where i get the control to choose any car in the aisle i want, not some car they choose for me. which makes me one smooth operator. ah! still a little tender. (vo) go national. go like a pro. ♪ ♪ let your data live wherever it needs to, but see it all in one view.

the ibm cloud. the cloud for enterprise. yours. ( ♪ ) (music stops) (bell rings)

i am a first responder tor and i'emergencies 24 hours a day, everyday of the year. my children and my family are on my mind when i'm working all the time. my neighbors are here, my friends and family live here, so it's important for me to respond as quickly as possible and get the power back on. it's an amazing feeling turning those lights back on. be informed about outages in your area. sign up for outage alerts at pge.com/outagealerts. together, we're building a better california.

welcome back to "fast money. live at the nad dak market site. stocks closing out august with a rally. major indices positive for the month. nasdaq closing at a record high. here's what's coming up in the rest of the show the tech stock, this tech stock is up 30% in the last year traders are betting it's about to erase almost all of those gains. we'll tell you the name. the auto stock revving up. it may have had investors in a frenzy today we start off with bitcoin, up another 10% this week. that's giving rise to a number of bitcoin related products. one of the products has become very popular. >> the rise of bitcoin has given birth to not only new

currencies, but investment vehicles and platforms that offer investors different ways to get exposure to the crypto currency without owning it this includes gray scale bitcoin investment trust which trades on the otc market it's up 300% over the past six months, the trust has gained well over 700% they also look at net asset value taking the number of bitcoin to fund hold divided by the number of shares outstanding which currently equals 423 but as you can see in this chart, the bitcoin investment trust is trading over $1,000 to date traders say this means there's more demand for the product than there are shares available keep in mind the bitcoin investment trust is working with the ftc to get listed on the new york stock exchange in the fall. if approved, that could potentially create more shares back to you, melissa. >> seema, thank you very much. karen, you have noticed this diversion. >> yes this isn't right this really isn't a bitcoin

story. this security is terrible to express the bitcoin debt it almost doesn't matter what bitcoin does, up, down, flat over time, this will collapse. i don't know when, it could double, the premium could double before it collapses. there's just no reason that this should exist in this premium it's ridiculous. >> not everyone is on board with the bitcoin trust. andrew left is actually shorting this trust he joins us now from los angeles to explain why he thinks that it's, quote unquote, the most dangerous way to own bitcoin andrew, welcome to you >> hi. >> we saw very clearly in the chart that the discrepancy between the underlying and what the trust is trading at right now. how do you think this comes crashing down? how does it unwind >> well, there's two parts to it i'm not going to right now discuss how the net asset value is twice the amount of the underlying bitcoin that's already been discussed.

that alone is completely ridiculous but on top of that, just go read the fcc filings and you'll see, they do not even have insurance for the bitcoin that they are custodians of. actually, i'll quote to you. we've been advised our custodian did not renew its insurance coverage that also makes it bad on top of that, what makes it even worse is, you're not even guaranteed to get the distribution of bitcoin cash and it also says that in the filing so this is bad and worse all rolled up into one. >> let's be clear, you're short this trust that's not an easy thing to do. can you give us a sense of the size of your position and when do you put this on >> i put it on recently. very fortunate about that. i could have been short from a while ago, because the same premise did occur a week ago, two weeks ago. even though right now the difference between the net asset value and the price is at its largest it's ever been but i am short recently.

i don't discuss my size. >> let me ask you a couple of things the points you made are great. those are really important on the bigger picture, is this a hedge trade for you, long bitcoin and do you want to make an embedded bet there on bitcoin going down. >> >> that's a good question the answer is, i'm half hedged, half unhedged. i actually think -- and this is no statement, i'm not here to opine on the future of bitcoin or crypto currencies, but simply as someone who has been trading markets in general for close to 30 years, you have a certain level of understanding and that would be the higher things go, the more thin the air becomes, and most importantly, it's interesting to note, you can't short bitcoin. or if you do, you do it in small doses. if bitcoin does come down, and when it comes down eventually at some level, you don't have shorts to hold it up because of that, and because of the rise, i'm short bitcoin

straight outright and hedged partially through this instrument. >> can you make an argument that gld is the same to this instrument >> not even close. >> not even close? >> not even close. >> gld and gold, they work in tandem >> yeah. and gld is a wonderful alternative. instead of owning physical gold, no doubt by the way, right now in the workings, the ftc has many etfs in the next six months that will track bitcoin a lot closer, if not definitively closer. if anything, this should be trading at a discount to bitc n bitcoin. but there will be -- i think if you look at any terminal or look at the news between the cboe and s.e.c., there will probably be six to seven approved products in the next six months that are synthetic or etfs where people can trade crypto currencies. >> and that will change the

dynamic. you have been so outraged by the whole situation, you've actually reached out to the fcc have you gotten any response from them? >> no. i wish i could call them up, hello, s.e.c., no problem, mr. left, we'll take care of that right away it's not like that i think the s.e.c. should put a warning out there for investors. they put a warning out about icos last week this is dangerous. there are a lot of people possibly who i don't want to open a coin based account who are afraid to open a crypto wallet, maybe it's a great default, and then they wake up down 40% on their investment without even bitcoin moving. they need to put a skull and crossbones, or when you buy, you have to sign some sort of agreement that you understand what you're doing with it, because of what the instrument is >> all right andrew, thanks so much for your time appreciate it. andrew left of citron research i'm sure a lot of people are looking at what they hold and how they hold it right now

we reached out to gray scale about left's warning they declined. because they currently have a registration statement on file with the fcc, security laws prevents them from commenting. so what do you make of the future of andrew's predictions on this particular trust >> first of all, i think andrew said, i'm not going to get out there and make a statement on bitcoin. i think this is way overpriced we've seen this many times where you traded a mass premium. this traded one-fifth the value. in other words, it was 80% too cheap to the underlying bitcoin amount so i think this goes on in markets all the time i think investors have to know what they're doing i think it's going to happen again. >> karen >> i think this is risk/reward, my favorite trade that he's ever brought up for me, i do believe in bitcoin and crypto currency. it's so volatile i know it's a risky trade, i get that but just this instrument, if you can stay short, probably most people can't, but if one could

-- and i tried to find out -- >> it's an arm. >> if you can stay short the arbb, you will make money. a lot of money potentially. >> for most people who cannot be in this trade at all, but who are in this trust for whatever reason -- >> open a bitcoin account. >> do you know this goes -- i was not aware of this. overstock, right, accepts bitcoin. it was 10% now it's 50% have you looked at the chart it's up 25% year-to-date it tracked bitcoin in lock step. >> really? >> unbelievable. where everyone wrote off overstock, going out of business, they get a bitcoin angle to them and they shoot straight up the month of august. but for the etfs, that's a high bar to hurdle. when you apply to the ftc. don't think there's going to be a dozen etfs just yet, because the s.e.c. probably doesn't understand bitcoin either. >> i don't think most people

can't do what andrew does, to karen's point. my takeaway, it's not an indictment on bitcoin, i think that has to be clear to people he's not saying they're not viable it's this instrument i think if there's one takeaway, it's that. >> absolutely. shares of apple at an all-time high today with the stock up more than 10% in the past month. ahead of its big iphone event. traders weigh in it was the call that divided the desk after the break, steve grasso stll talk about the mo controversial call he's ever made on this show. that's after the break oh, not so fast, carl. ♪ oh no. schwab, again? index investing for that low? that's three times less than fidelity... ...and four times less than vanguard. what's next, no minimums? ...no minimums. schwab has lowered the cost of investing again. introducing the lowest cost index funds in the industry with no minimums. i bet they're calling about the schwab news. schwab. a modern approach to wealth management.

you're in the match app. now tap on the new missed connections feature. it says i've crossed paths with kate six times this week. that is a lot of times. she's cute too! yea! how did i miss her? you didn't. match picked it up for you. check out new missed connections on match. start for free today!

welcome back to "fast money. check out the move in the auto stocks today, ford and general motors revving up. it might be because of the comments from morgan stanley's adam jonas right here on "fast money" last night. >> this is like mother nature's cash for clunkers. people are going to get checks this is a wealth transfer from the insurance company to car dealers, to ought a companies. half a million cars, just os sensibly, at $35,000 a car, the average transaction price year-to-date, almost $18 billion worth of cars. >> sounds good, but does it pull forward demand >> it may. i think if you look at the autos

as the trade, we wrestle with what's going on with auto demand for a long time. and how profitable he mentioned how the ford pickup is the most profitable car that ford sells probably that's the one that will have the most demand going forward. gm is a name i'm long. i actually love the valuation. and i like the dividend. i'm comfortable with the news priced into the stock. >> what did you make of what a.j. said last night >> big fan of a.j. >> i know. the top three at the desk. >> he said that to 15 people. >> i know. he's got a list of 12 people -- >> he's in my head everybody's in my head this week you know what else was in my head as mr. jonas was leaving, i said, did you see what happened with auto nation yesterday i said to you. >> and today wow. >> they issued a -- >> the buyback, yeah >> i said, wow, good job by you. stock up 4.5% today. point being, where there's smoke, there's fire.

and i still think there's room. >> could this be good for the auto anchors you're in now? >> i am in gm. i do think it's good for the automakers, even if it is just pulling forward. there was also coincidentally yesterday, talking about demand for cadillac in china, that's a big high margin item for them. and also the valuation i think is ridiculously low here but it has been that way for quite some time. >> and in better times, too. >> in better times but their story was always, we're going to see sales start to decline i actually thought, well, we see them decline and they still have good earnings, maybe the multiple will readjust the stock is right where i've owned it for a while, so that hasn't happened. but i think this could be an impetus. >> last night during that auto segment, steve grasso made a very bold and controversial call about avis >> i'm holding on to it, because what you just asked, where is it going, how about this.

it's a double from here. >> a double from here? all right. we'll mark your words. >> first of all -- >> i should never say, how about this, how about this so aggressive. >> you're being very aggressive and very impassioned. >> i might be too conservative when this all plays out. >> wow doubling down on this. doubling down on the controversial call >> it's about making calls i'm not embarrassed. i don't fear making calls. you can never say that, right? this is a good call. it's bounced aggressively. i think this is just the beginning of the runway. >> it could be more than a double >> let's just stick with the double for now >> fair enough. >> that would be the worst case scenario for me if i have to sit here and say it's going up higher. >> karen sold the stock. >> you know, i'm concerned about the much bigger macro issue of -- well, we had the prices in used cars going down but the uber element to me is pretty real.

i don't know if texas is enough to sort of throw a wrench in the business model >> absolutely not. we all know what the pressures are with rental car companies. when you say this is going to double or plus, first of all, you double this car, it puts it at 7 billion valuation, which it's never traded at, or back where the all-time highs were, four years ago before you go into the down swing. >> if you look at the chart, it's been under a lot of pressure because of what karen said, used car prices. coming in at 20% to 50%. during the great recession they came in 10%. do you think they'll come in more than the great recession? the recession before that they came in 5% and those were short-lived events so if you believe that used car prices are coming in 20% to 50%, you should not own avis. the problem is, everyone's doing bad math because all the other recessions we saw, they never came in 20% to 50% if they don't come in 20% to

50%, avis is a screaming buy. >> that's right. if gm earnings six bucks a share next year, this stock is -- >> but this is not -- i'm not talking about -- >> but it's going to >> i'm not talking about unicorns used car pricing has stabilized. this is not a unicorn skipping up to the desk right now. >> the unicorn that takes a ride share -- >> did you know they own zip car? >> karen, get in here. >> hang on one second. did you think it was not a buy at 20? >> second quarter numbers came in better is the reason why the stock's up. >> it's already above the sell-off that it had after the earnings miss. >> the stock's going to have a higher valuation in multiples than it ever sglas this stock was oversold it ran 70%. >> 40% short >> 45% short interest and it will run even higher. >> i hear you on the used car thing. although they might have more cars now, and less room for contraction. i don't know but to the uber issue --

>> nobody knows -- that is something that's out there nobody knows what the uber issue is going to do to any one of these automobile companies but once you get into autonomous, they're going to be the guys managing the fleets it's going to be hertz, it's going to be avis -- >> why wouldn't uber manage its own fleet? >> they don't know how to manage the fords and gms thought they knew how to manage it. tesla could be one of the companies that manages is. but ford and gm thought they could manage it. you know what they did they wound up -- >> i want to get guy in here >> these stocks -- hertz and avis, they were in a bit of a death spiral into the summer june 26th, what was the headline that came out? apple was going to lease six cars from hertz. i'm not even kidding around. >> so how much in market cap

each >> that's an important point there's a short interest that's explosive in both of these names. not a lot of positive news has to come out to spark the buy on both these names. >> all right last word. >> from an autonomous perspective, there will be so many new cars dropped on the used car market, unrelated to what's going on right now -- >> you're saying that's not retroactive. there might be technology you could overlay on a used car. >> there will be more used cars. >> okay. okay >> i'm sticking with it. >> double. maybe more says steve grasso coming up, the new iphone launch the rumors are swirling. we'll break down fact and fiction right after this break traders are betting the run is about to come to a screeching lt we've got the details. much more fast right after this. whoooo.

looking for a hotel that fits... ...your budget? tripadvisor now searches over... ...200 sites to find you the... ...hotel you want at the lowest price. grazi, gino!

find a price that fits. tripadvisor.

track your pack. set a curfew, or two. make dinner-time device free. [ music stops ] [ music plays again ] a smarter way to wifi is awesome. introducing xfinity xfi. amazing speed, coverage and control. change the way you wifi. xfinity. the future of awesome. welcome back to "fast money. apple setting a date for the highly anticipated iphone launch let's get to josh lipton in san francisco with more. >> melissa, mark your calendars. apple's big event will take place on september 12th, starting at 10:00 a.m. pacific the invite reads, let's meet at

our place. please join us for the first ever event at the steve jobs here in cupertino. that day apple is expected to unveil three new iphones, successors to the 7 and 7-plus and a new premium model. apple, of course, is tight-lipped about what features that phone is going to boast rbc expects the following. wireless charging, upgraded processors with greater ar and br capabilities, and facial recognition among other features the cost, a rumored $1,000 if that's true, would probably just be the starting price with higher memory models demanding more investors are betting that the new phones are going to excite a lot of consumers, encourage them to upgrade to these new devices. that's why apple stock is surging more than 40% this year. not just phones, apple also anticipates to introduce a new watch, as well as upgraded apple tv be there on september 12th bringing you all the headlines as they come. >> thank you very much, josh lipton

so apple trading at all-time highs. time to buy or sell on the in us at some point, i think most believe that the stock runs up into a big launch. at some point you have to decide what that moment will be when do you think that moment will be? >> some people would say, why do you have to decide >> all right. >> i think if pete were here, he would say, why would you have to make a decision. this is a stock trending with a few exceptions along the way warren buffett said to becky quick the other day, never sold a single share of apple. he would say, why do i have to make that decision i think the traders in all of us will say, there's going to be an opportunity to probably get out of parsed down some of the long positions into the launch. i know i am enthusiastically awaiting that date >> you're really right there it's in your calendar. >> in my google dock. >> do you say at what point do you decide to sell it.

it depends if this thing really exceeds expectations, there's another leg higher we're not talking about a hardware company split adjusted price, over $1,100 now i still think it goes higher. >> apple or avis no, just kidding going to give apple one of the top buyers traders are betting the run to becoming an end. hey, mike. >> yeah, unusual semiconductors agreed to be acquired by qualcomm obviously doing well, trading above the 110 cash price, four times the daily average put column today somebody paid a little over 50 cents for 10,000 of those. people wondering if they'll get deal approval by the end of the year the stock was trading about 82 bucks before that deal was announced. somebody might be betting it falls through. >> thanks for that, mike full show is tomorrow 5:30 stn me. up next u "final trade." stay tuned i'm here at the td ameritrade trader offices.

steve, other than making me move stuff, what are you working on? let me show you. okay. our thinkorswim trading platform aggregates all the options data you need in one place and lets you visualize that information for any options series. okay, cool. hang on a second. you can even see the anticipated range of a stock expecting earnings. impressive... what's up, tim. see options data like never before. with thinkorswim only at td ameritrade. it's time for the biggest sale of the year with the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your every move and automatically adjusts on both sides to keep you effortlessly comfortable. and snoring.... does your bed do that? the new 360 smart bed is part of our biggest sale of the year where all beds are on sale. and right now save 50% on the labor day limited edition bed, plus 36 month financing. ends monday!

you myour joints...thing for your heart... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. avis after hours, up more than 2% right now. remember, this is a stock that steve grasso says could double, or even more we're tracking it. "final trade." >> i'm getting on my unicorn. >> yesterday, earnings in line as expected. >> weird way to play bitcoin

overstock.com. >> buncho tonight. preseason football night >> absolutely. >> i'll be locked in check out gardner denver gdi >> ooh >> all right i'm melissa lee. thanks for watching. see you back here at 5:00. "mad money" starts right now my mission is simple to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere, and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money. welcome to cramerica most people want to make friends, i'm just trying to make you some money my job is not just to entertain, but to educate you call me, or tweet me @jim cramer i've never hidden my love for reality football many people call i