out in one second. obviously that's bots, okay? and check this out. >> not really. hung ary people. >> they're already on ebay for $400 to $500 to $999 that's capitalism, michelle. >> what do i get if i buy that pass unlimited pasta. unlimited pasta. thanks for watching "power lunch. ." "closing bell" starts now. i can always eat unlimited pasta. welcome to "the closing bell," sarah eisen for kelly evansst >> i'm bill griffeth >> ceo says subscriber losses are actually a good thing for his business he says he is not afraid of cord cutting. we'll find out why coming up. and one of the most buzzed about ipos this year, company going public today that has no assets could that be a sign of frothd in the market? we'll discuss what it means. >> up 3.5%

on its first day. and biotech company holozyme therapeutics surging today 18% now on new partnerships. the ceo of the company will join us exculusively to discuss whether more deals could be in the offing as well. let's begin, though, with the day in washington. ylon has more on today's senate finance committee hearings on tax reform eamon javers has the latest on president trump's talks with democrats on daca and what exactly they talked about. ylon, let's start with you, though >> bill, the chairman of the senate finance committee, orrin hatch, made absolutely clear today that the negotiations over tax reform are only just beginning. part of the big six, gop leadership, as well as members of the trump administration who have been working together on a framework for tax reform but hatch said today anything they agree to is just a guideline, not a guarantee.

>> anyone with any experience with the senate finance committee knows we're not anyone's rubber stamp. for a bill particularly on something as consequential as tax reform is going to pass in this committee, the members of the committee will have to be involved in putting it together. >> reporter: we've seen president trump reach out to democrats to try to win their support on this issue recently, and the senate finance committee is known as a cordial and bipartisan place, so i asked the ranking democrat on the committee, senator ron wyden, whether he thinks the president's recent rhetoric will translate into reality >> my concern is that there's a big gap between the words and the deeds. the president said just yesterday, for example, that he doesn't want to have tax breaks go to the very wealthy, but, yet, if you look at their outline, which is valid as of today, they create a brand new, enormous loophole for the wealthy. >> reporter: now, wyden was referring to trucmp's proposal o

lower the rate for passthrough businesses which some say wealthy households could take add vannage advantage of the possibility of doubling the standard deduction i will be interviewing senator orrin hatch tomorrow here on cnbc so hopefully we can get some more details from him then back over to you guys. >> yeah. just what those comments mean. about the big six not necessarily dictating everything for republicans. ylan, thank you. president trump meeting with democrats to discuss potentially making a deal that would protect thousands of young undocumented immigrants from deportation, talking daca eamon javers has been following that story all day long. eamon, what can you tell us? >> reporter: so much of the political fury in washington today been about the distinction of whether or not democrats and the president made a deal last night or just an agreement last night. coming out of it, the democrats said there was an agreement reached in which they would pare

up more funding for border security but not the wall along with a deal on daca. this morning the president saying, no, no deal was made half night on daca massive border security would have to be agreed to in exchange for consent, would be subject to a vote the democrats came back and said, well, sure, that's right the president trump's tweetss a are not inconsistent with the agreement we reached last night. as we said last night, there was no final deal. so that could clear it up. no deal but an agreement between the two parties. well, not if you ask the speaker of the house who had this to say. >> it's no agreement the president and the chief of staff called me from air force one today to discuss what was discussed, and it was a discussion, not an agreement or a negotiation. >> reporter: so the democrats say there was an agreement, the president says there was no deal the speaker says there was not even an agreement. and that's where we are this afternoon here in washington trying to figure out sort of what the political ramifications

are from this bipartisan push that we're now seeing from the trump administration something new, guys, and it reminds me a lot of the "t" word which is triangulation which we saw from the clinton administration back in the '90s working against their own party on capitol hill, going around them in dealing with the opposition that's something that we haven't really seen much of in washington since the clinton administration, but it looks like president trump is trying a little triangulation here as well >> that's it eamon javers herding cats in washington today. lucky you. see you later. i'm sure we'll hear from you a little later get to the "closing bell" ek chan exchange, the dow is higher, keeps it in record territory the other major averages are down but not by much michael zin from ubs at post 9 today. ian shepardson jonathan from her rmeridian equ partners at post 9 rick santelli, we're missing you

here, rick, he's there at the cme in chicago john, we had a mothot inflation number which didn't seem to spook the markets at all and we follow on these rallies that have put most of the major averages into record territory this week what's going on here in your perspective? >> right i would have figured today would have been a perfect opportunity to take risk off the table right? i mean, we've seen the market hit these highs and we can debate back and forth if there's real muscle behind it. as we get higher and higher, you see these opportunities. start managing your position, your portfolio a little better i think not a ton of economic data we have left coming this week next week virpeveryone's going e focusing on fmoc comments. at this point, i'm surprised we did not see more of a selloff today. any keend of pullback i think would be a good opportunity for investors who missed this market to get back in at this time right now, it just seems like we're in this stable tomorrow. >> we to have retail sales. >> yes >> ian, not to question, was it

a hot inflation norm a lot came in shelter, we saw hotel rises, rent rises. are there any flashing signs here for the fed that they are going to speed up and even hike interest rates again this year >> yeah. i think that's the 51/49 for december not saying it's a done deal by any means. the mark took it as a stronger hichbt th hint they would go in december when we get one number that looks like we're going back to something normal, it matters and makes a difference it's only one. two or three, people will rreal starting to change their view and bring you to the risk-off story for equities the five week ones were the misleading ones and actually the trend is picking back up again but too early to know about judgment at this point. >> you can explain away the hot inflation we got this morning. rick, what does the market say about that i mean, i haven't looked the fed funds futures. i know at least one house on wall street raise th

expectorations as a result of this morning what's the market saying here? >> reporter: about a 50/50 for december that shouldn't be surprising to anybody, especially when you consider what's going on in the uk you know, these things are starting to bubble up. and the real issue is, i think they're looking at their own metric i think the way they dialed in what they consider the important inflation gauge is probably a lot more dim than many others' inflation gauges with regard to intensity and i'm not so sure their policy twhal actually addresses what they're trying to hold out to wait and see and trigger their next response. suffice it so say that the low yields with we had on sunday night before we came into this week around 201 in the ten year. we're up 19 basis points from there. theoretically, bill, the market didn't move all that much on the 410's headline which was the second highest of the year there are not many numbers above 310s going back for self-yevera

years. granted we gave it back. what you're supposed to walk away with this week in treasury is the sub 2% trade was never meant to be. the market drifted down there for a variety of factors not the least of which is nobody wanted to own short with various issues like north korea which, by the way, hasn't diminished the fact we snapped back from the well-worn range, 17, 18, 19, 20, thinks we're going to continue idle rates here, maybe one week from yesterday when we get the fed two-day meeting, learn more about the balance sheet. i think you'll get a lot more action in the treasury -- >> everybody's talking about the relationship here, michael, between bonds and stocks still rick said, 219, we're pretty low yield even if the fed does hike in december are we still in this mentally for stocks that that is what is the primary driver of the market reaching new highs hitting records again this week? it's the super low sort of easy yield story with the goldilocks economy? >> yeah. low-rate environment definitely helps. the noteworthy thing about this

new high is we have the laggards get us across the finish line. seeing energy strength today saw that actually after the november election as well. health care had been the laggard and took the reins of the market if that stuff really gets going, you can continue to do it and the truth is a rate hike in december doesn't necessarily upset the licyclical value trade i'm not sure fed hike in december means game over the markets. certainly argue those value propositions, financials, energy, retail, don't have huge upside more of a value selective play that may add extra legs to the market. >> ian, while we have you here, rick alluded to quhastz goiwhat in the uk. brexit negotiations are lurching along. how do you think they're going what impact are you seeing so far for your markets and economy there? >> businesses are uncertain now. shouting about the uncertainty, shouting about hiring people

outside the uk now really nervous the political momentum is pushing way from the cliff edge, we're going to walk away and do our deal thing lot more momentum of staying in with a long transition, do something that keeps uk in the single market. that's why sterling has rallied. sterling/dollar at 133. >> a year high. >> that's because markets are now thinking, hey, we're not going to drop off a cliff here which nobody wants that anymore. people who have been shouting the loudest want that. i think the majority voices are beginning to push through now. and of course on top of that we got the bank of england now squawking about maybe raising races. that's another element in the -- >> tell them to get in line. everybody else is talking about that, too. >> rick, this has been your big theme, right, watch what's happening globally with central banks. yes, the federal reserve has been easing but the punchbowl is going to start to slowly come away when you're talking about europe and the uk today. maybe even japan i don't know if we can go there yet. >> reporter: well, if any of it's going to stick, if there's actually ever going to be a degree of religion brought back

into central banking it's not going to happen if you have big central banks going in opposite directions i'm not sure if we've actually reached the point where it's the folkram, everybody is going to be moving in the same direction. there's no normally without it we'll seek thede m demom denominator. whoever's adding stimulus into the system will be felt au all around the globe. >> gentlemen, appreciate it, thanks for stopping by. >> thanks. >> appreciate your thoughts. ian, thanks for coming in from england. see you later. 48 minutes to go before the closing bell the dow remains the only major average higher new, up 43 points s&p down a tenth of a percent. nasdaq pulling back .4 the story is stocks holding near record highs all three closing at record levels this week. up next we hear from cbs chairman les munves and verizon ceo mcadams about the changing

media landscape and why moonves says he's not afraid of cord cutting. >> tell that to people who sold cbs today, down 4%. social capital trading for the first time ipovestors are getting in despit the fact the company has no assets yes, it's one of those we'll discuss if this is a sign of frothiness in the market coming up. as always, we love to hear from you reach out to the show on twitter, facebook or send us an e-mail you're watching cnbc, first in business worldwide dynamic performance, track tuned handling, and aggressive styling. the bold lexus is. lease the 2017 is turbo for $299 a month for 36 months.

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shares of ryder systems up 1 1. 1.25% after receiving an upgrade from firm bank the firm citing strong rental activity for that move the stock is up a buck earlier today, our david faber sat down with two media heavyweights at goldma man saum' conference >> common themes convergence, media and telecom one of the things we did speak

to lowell mcadam who runs verizon about. namely his views of content, whether or not it's a threat in part to his business as other carriers link their wireless offerings with content offerings. something else, though, that has also come up frequently for verizon is whether, in fact, it will do a large transaction to buy a distributor of video programming, a la, a cable company, the most likely name, of course, has been charter. and at the beginning of ourer be vi interview mcadam made it clear anybody expecting a deal of any kind may be waiting a very long time. >> i think a week didn't go by that we weren't mentioned, you're going to buy disney or cbs or charter or comcast or whoever. look, cooler heads are, you know, running these businesses so, you know, i think charter's got a great company, great business model we are very focused on deploying fiber and 5g that's where we need to put our capital dollars and buying a cable company then having to

reconfigure their network didn't make sense for us. >> i think we can at least do away with that, perhaps today, maybe tomorrow before the rumors start again. not that charter doesn't have the focusof other potential suitors. as for cbs, itself, even though the stock is down today, leslie moonves trying to deal with the overavrn overarching question if the media business, as the bundles start to come apart, what happens to the companies that typically relied on the bundle to garner most of their revenues for his part he says people are getting it wrong, cbs a beneficiary of cord cutting. >> when people with cord cutting or leaving cable, they're going somewhere. they're not going to the thin air. is they're buying other services if you leave one service for another, we are still there and we're getting paid more for it >> they are still there with their own direct to consumer offerings. cbs all access, as well as a

point mr. moonves likes to make many times, their presence on most if not almost all of those new over the top offerings the conconglomerations, 30, 40 channels being offered to consumers. i did ask moonves as well about something that is shaking up the bundle more, namely disney's decision to start its own direct to consumer offering here's what he had to say about disney's efforts >> as you look into the universe, disney said, okay, they didn't want to be part of the netflix yufuniverse, they wanted to do it themselves it's something we decided we would ago we went into this in 2015 and once again, it's offering congress te co content in different ways. people are tired of paying for things they don't watch. >> marleparticularly, bill, spo >> so i hear it's amazing when you can

consider, cbs not too long ago was a broadcast television network. verizon was just a telephone company. what i call business model creep hasexponentially >> we always talked about convergence for so long. i can remember doing it 20 years. cbs has taken advertising, to your point, down to less than half of its joeoverall revenues making money from retransmission from local affiliates, signal, making money from selling its content to cable content companies, making money from selling it to netflix. >> right. >> not to mention all access or show time. and as for verizon, we didn't even get into their content attem attempts aol and yahoo! now called oath they're certainly going to be trying to compete with the likes of at&t which is about to close its keel to acquire time warner. talk about a merging of content

distribution >> did you see the hulu news this afternoon $2.5 billion is what hulu is going to spend on content in 2017. >> seven new shows. >> sounds like a lot, actually a fraction of what netflix is spending. >> netflix is number one by far. amazon not too distant cbs up there with fox, $3 billion, $4 billion. that does put it in some perspective. >> netflix, hulu, want to get into content, you're talking to les moonves, talking about disney wanting to get into streaming distribution of business interesting to see the winners and the losers a lot of players. >> it will be, particularly as some of them move away from netflix, in particular, disney we'll see. cbs all access is rolling out "star trek" hoping that will attract even more people to their offering of course, disney has got the other star, "star wars." >> amazon, jeff bezos told his team to find their own "game of thrones. so they can have their own must-watch tv show. >> that's going to be tough.

>> we'll see. >> i'm watching "ozark" now on netfl netflix. >> so am i. >> so food. >> we finished the third episode. rough stuff. >> it gets better. >> talk amongst yourself going to talk tv shows. >> so funny, i didn't know we haven't compared notes. >> thank you very much, david. >> always a pleasure >> have a lovely rest of the day. >> thank you. 39 minutes left in the trading session here the dow the lone gainer among the major averages now keeping it in record territory the grocery wars speaking of business model creep. grocery wars are heating up. kroger announces a new venture what it's doing, how it may help the supermarket compete with rivals like whole foods. that's coming up. later, shares of biotech company halozym erk the therapes spiking today. we'll talk to the ceo. shares up 18%. we'll be right back. >> cnbc sector sort sponsored by sector etfs.

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we have some breaking news on president trump eamon javers back again. what's going on? >> reporter: yeah, hi, bill. president trump has landed at joint base andrews where he's getting on marine one right now. he was flying back from florida where he was touring some of the hard hit hurricane areas while he was on air force one, the president walked back into the press cabin, talking to reporters on the record.

we have some excerpts here of what he had to say including some things that will be of interest to wall street. the president saying he very much has the back of stephen mnuchin, the treasury secretary, who's been in controversy here over this issue of taking a government jet on a personal trip or requesting to take a government jet on a personal trip the president saying he has confidence in mnuchin, also saying he has has confidence in gary cohn, reportedly on the outs with the president. the president also saying on keeping janet yellen at the fed, he said i like her and i respect but i haven't made the decision yet, the country is doing very well so no sort of tip of the hand there on the fate of janet yellen, what he's going to do in terms of the fed the president also talked about his meeting yesterday in political terms with senator tim scott. an african-american republican senator who came to the white house yesterday to talk to the president about race relations the two men meeting in the oval office the president said that he

wanted to bring up antifa, the anti-fascist organization. he said you got some very bad people on the other side also, which is true, referring to the antifa group so the president making comments on a number of different summit calling the iran deal one of the worst deals i've ever seen, something he said time and time again. also interestingly on the day in which the president is reaching out to democrats, possibly making a deal, he said i'm a republican through and through he said my relationship with republicans are excellent, but things have to get passed. he says if he can't get thinged passed, we have to go a different route. this is a president clearly frustrated with the log jam in washington, looking to shake things up, do things in different ways and the deal-making mood we've seen the president in in terms of ta talkitalkin democrats, guys.

>> eamon, thanks see you later zblchl. shares of tenet health care soaring after news yesterday that the company was hiring advisers to explore a potential sale sources say those discussions are in their early stages but the stock continues to trade higher, up another 6% in today's mark. united natural goods is hfos higher after reporting an interest beat. the primary distributor for whole foods, also gave an upbeat forecast for the current fiscal year citing a favorable impact of acquisitions. that stock up 8.25% today, sarah. speaking of the food business, kroger looking to expand beyond grocery stores the companye iing earlier today it's opening a restaurant, kitchen 883, in union, kentucky, focused on comfort food and made from scratch items kroger's shares have been low lower all year long.

down 2.25% down nearly 40% year to date bill interesting move, always, for groceries, but i think it speaks overall to the changing landscape in retail and just how retailers are trying to figure out what's next. kroger, too, is trying to figure out what consumers want. this sort of goes along with they're trying to get into the meal kit delivery kind of service. >> yes, right, right i guess nobody told them that we're in a restaurant recession right now. it's been very, very tough on the restaurant industry. just as it has been on the retail business. and the niche that they want to pursue here, i got two words for you, cracker barrel, they're already there. >> with that kind of food. >> bob evans. >> they're not expanding into a major chain. >> clearly they're going to test to see how it does in this one town but opening a restaurant that's ha high-risk business all by itself. it's got its own issues. >> absolutely. the bearish sentiment you're seeing reflected in the stock

move this year for kroger really has to do with not just the amazon/whole foods deal, the fact that these european grocers have moved so aggressively into the u.s. market, there is big-time pricing competition, not to mention the fact that walmart is also taking costs aggressively lower when it comes to pricing to compete in groceries. it's an industry that is changing. >> absolutely. >> consumers are changing. they think this move shows they're trying to keep up -- >> i get all that,i'm not sure opening a restaurant is the answer to any of that. >> yeah. >> i don't know. we will see. we could be wrong. i often am as she tells me. >> by the way, they're all trading lower today. kroger down the most time for krns krcnbc news ue with sue herera. >> hi, sarah, hi, bill, here's what's happening at this hour. president trump along with first lady melania and vice president pence greeting hurricane irma survivors and surveying the damage at a naples, florida, mobile home park he praised florida for its recovery efforts >> we love the people of florida

and they went through something the likes of which we can say nobody's seen before, they've never seen a category like this come in, because it came in really at a 5. all you have to do is look at what happened in the keys. secretary of defense jim mattis visiting nebraska for classified briefings it was his first visit since his appointment. olive garden's $100 never ending pasta pass offer returns today with a new bonus consumers who claim one of the 22,000 pasta passes will enjoy eight weeks of access to unlimited pasta. 50 customers will have a chance to buy a pasta passport to italy for $200 that will get them an all inclusive eight-day trip for two. unfortunately, for all of us, it's already sold out. it sold out in, like -- >> they're on ebay, i saw. >> two seconds i'm sure the secondary market is big. >> they're on ebay. >> beware, they ask for i.d.

so if your passport is issued under a certain name, -- >> details, details. >> i know. >> the last thing i need, a pasta pass it >> it's the last thing any of us need. >> thank you, sue. >> you got it. >> see you later so we got about 30 minutes left in the trading session here the dow little bit higher. up 52 points right now other major averages are lower. elon musk announcing the next frontier in electric vehicles that would be semitrucks but will truckers want to go electric the former vice chair of general motors will weigh in on that coming up. but first a hot new tech ip ipo. social capital going public today up 3.6%. the company has no underlyg in assets we're going to explain what it's all about. details next on "closing bell.

there's one company where i invested tleer ye eed three yeao analyt analytics, provides consumer analytics to cnbc and what ifs. >> we mention them every now and

then. >> the real beauty, many of the other finance technology a.i. companies i invest in is when they marry not only all the amount of public data that we're all creating every day, but proprietary data, if it's a private equity firm that has 100 portfolio companies, if that private equity firm can marry the data of what it's learning from the private companies and the portfolio and public, with public data and analyze that in a predictive way, these are potential game-changing investment areas >> clearly that was jim breyer of breyer capital at the delivering alpha conference earlier this week on tuesday giving a shout-out to one of his investments and a part of hours, kensho analytics, big data version of historical analysis used by many hedge funds to make investment decisions. so today's the first day of trading for social capital the company's getting a lot of attention. >> a lot. >> for a few interesting

reasons. bob pisani has been following this for us. what it says about the ipo market. >> yeah. >> the market in general. >> the reason this is so interesting is the company has no assets. at least not yet it's a special purpose acquisition company. wow. or spac for short. a company being set up to invest in technology companies that are not yet public they went public today and raised $600 million, a nice ipo. spacs are based ed on a simple premise. it could be energy, technology, who will then have up to two years to go out and buy one more more assets. the investors then have the option of remaining in the investment or getting out and receiving their money back now in this case, the management team is led by one of the original members of the facebook management team, palihapitiya. big question, what is he going to buy the street is buzzing, mr. palihapitiya in an interview on

our air said he was looking for one company to buy, not multiple companies. there's some speculation what company might be in his cross hairs. he did give us a clue, said he may look for companies in the $3 million to $3 trillion in the voluation range. a lot of tech unicorns who fall into that. dropbox, spotify, lynt, hulu there are others around, there's slack, credit karma, surveymonkey guys, we have no idea. at least he gave us some kind of range. so the clock is ticking right now. he has up to two years to make a decision so a lot can happen in the next two years but considerable speculation going on >> i mean, they've been using this structure for a long time the spac and to say that they have no assets, i would argue with that, he's the asset. >> that's right. >> you're betting the jockey you're handing this smart person some money, now go out and invest in something and make us some money. >> that's right.

a lot depends on their perception of him, does he have the ability to, number one, identify a target, and i think the most important thing is down the road, in will be a tougher test which is when he announces what he's going to buy, can he buy it at a price that is attractive to his investors? you're right right now, they're buying him, buying that follow, mr. palihapitiya in a year, two years, he's going to announce a company then the investors will have a choice of saying, oh, yes, i like what he's buying and like the price he's buying at or to say, no thank you, we're out of here that's when the true test will come >> well, so far, so good >> it's a great day. >> very interesting way to do this i wish there were more direct ipos given the log jam, at least maybe this will get some speculation going. >> journal said this is a pretty hot space, too, this whole blank check business. >> this is the most spacs since 2007 they tend to correlate with m&a activity we're hitting a peak this year like we did in 2007.

so i think that's the relationship. >> interesting thanks, bob. >> okay. >> see you on the close. meantime, shares of biotech firm halozyme soaring today after announcing two key partnerships the ceo will join us to talk about whether more deem deals d be on horizon coming up. what started as a passion to make something original...

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in case you hadn't heard, martin shkreli was ordered to jail late yesterday while he awaits sentencing for securities fraud. the judge on the case ruled shkreli is a danger to the public after he wrote his facebook post earlier this month offi inering a $5,000 bounty fo strand of hk hillary clinton's hair remember that? he was dubbed the pharma bro of increasing the price of the life-saving dog by 5,000%. >> knew the social media habits would get him in trouble they have been this whole time. >> yes, they have. meantime we're watching shares of halozyme therapeutics, today up 18%. the company anounouncing it wil license its drug technology to bristol-myers squibb. >> they're going to make a lot of money right away on this.

meg fer rell gtirrell got the e interview with ceo helen torley. >> thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> so let's talk about these deals that you've done today both with bristol-myers and with roa roche. around a drug delivery technology it sounds like it might make it easier for patients to take medicines, maybe not have an onerous process. could you explain what your technology does? >> yes, the enhanced technology when combined with drugs that today have to be given into the vein changes them and allows them to be give b n in a simple shorter injection underneath the skin if you can imagine if for patients instead of having to have a multi-hour intravenous injection they can now have a shorter injection under the skin freeing them up to be able to get back to work or spending time with family >> all right talking about the burden these patients have to face, citi has

a note out saying for bristol-myers, ketruda, a 60 minute injection every two weeks versus mercks' drug given 30 minutes every 2 weeks. could this give bristol-myers a benefit over merck's in terms of convenience? >> obviously the clinical studies haven't started yet. i think that's exactly the hope that several companies have in using our technology to be more competitive offering let me give you an example we already have jansin today studying one that needs to be given in a four to six hour intravenous injection and they're now studying a five-minute injection using our technology i certainly think that is the hope for the checkpoint inhibiters, too. bristol-mye bristol-myers squibb getting it to a shorter injection for patients. >> dr. torley, i get the need to be more friendly to the patient

and everything, but does it make the treatment that much more effective? what i'm hearing, just purely from a business standpoint, is a competition thing going on here. if the drug that bristol-myers squibb or roche has to offer can be administered in a more patient-friendly way, maybe the doctors would go with them than they would another competitive treatment that has to go the old iv way is that what this is all about >> if certaint certainly is come i wouldn't downplay how important this is for patients if you are, for example, a cancer patient and needing a spend half a day to a day in the infusion center receiving your quarterback, what i know they're thinking about is the patient experience and what they're trying to do with our technology is improve the patients' experience recognizing with our great therapies today, many patients live for many years but attending the infusion center

can hold them back i think the prime driver is the patient experience that will translate into potential competitive benefits for the companies. >> so how big is the opportunity here for you what other types of drugs could be administered through your technology versus iv and who does that open -- who does that open that up to for more potential clients >> we, with bristol-myers squibb which is our largest deal to date, that takes us to collaboration agreements our technology can work with many, many therapies that have to be given into the veins this can cover patients receiving cancer therapy, ms therapy. we believe there are many opportunities and, indeed, we continue in discussions with a number of companies and i think these two deals really have established that we're the go-to technology so i do expect that we are going to be able to sign more deals and potentially bring benefits

to more patients >> all right meanwhile, halozyme has an ongoing trial in pancreatic answer we'd love to have you on to talk about that as well thank fyou for being here. >> thank you, doctor. >> really appreciate it. thanks very much. >> really appreciate it. a warning sign for investors. some bank executives sound the alarm on trading revenue we've got the deba on ettewhher financials are a good buy here next (baby crying)

(slow jazz music) ♪ fly me to the moon ♪ and let me play (bell ring)

art cashin just stopped by a moment ago and told sarah the market on close orders show an imbalance to the buy side of $400 million i think we had an imbalance to the buy side every day this week and last week. >> has been a strong week for stocks. >> so, yeah, the demand is still there and the dow is still in record territory up 50 points right now with 9 minutes to go. banks like goldman sachs and jp morgan hit by declining trade revenue. jamie dimon addressed this issue at our delivering alpha conference earlier this week listen. >> i said the analysts are down about 20%, something like that, quarter over quarter again, i think that's completely missing the point, okay? it's not that you try to hide behind what it is, yes, it's low

volatility and it is what it is. we do $2 trillion a day of securities, buying, selling. i think it's going to be a great business over time a good return on it. yes, quarter by quarter goes up or down. we're thinking about not telling anyone anymore, like, because it just gets too much unnecessaryjt jim senegal from morningstar gentlemen, welcome to both of you. jeff, you got a buy rating on bank of america, goldman sachs and citigroup. we've heard dollar warnings from citigroup and goldman sachs on trading revenues is dimon right it's getting too much negative attention? >> when it comes to trading i think he's right on. trading revenues over the last number of take kadecades have b volatile from quarter to quarter. the important thing is overall trend line and trading revenue has grown with how slow it's been lately at a premium to gdps i think trading is good business but focusing on it from quarter to quarter can kind of miss the

point. when i look at underlying drivers of the businesses for these banks, not just trading but for a lot of them a lot comes down to the macroeconomy i think things are heading the right way. i think this is still a time to be bullish on banks. >> jim, you on the other hand are bearish on most of the major banks. wells fargo the lone exception we'll talk about that in a moment why don't you -- is it in part because of the trading revenue they're missing out on these days >> no, i actually agree you can't look too much at the volatility quarter to quarter in trading. the big issue for us is valuation. very good year for the markets banks have had a great run since the election investors are optimistic things are going to get better on the regulatory front, but all those things move very slowly. we've seen the problems getting health care reform through, hear the banks' ceos over the past few days talk about how slow deregulation is going to happen. a turn in some areas, trading revenue down, credit losses are

starting to tick up. at these high valuations, there's motnot much to -- >> i'm curious, what you think about goldman sachs' move announced this week to offset what's going on with trading and grow its lending business. sort of a jp morgan-ization of goldman sachs. is that a good bet >> i think it's what they have to do, go back to the financial crisis when goldman became a bank holding company, all of a sudden they were subject to the regulations. they had the deposits. you need to do something to generate returns on deposits and can't use them in the trading businesses think some of the lending and financing stuff does make sense. specifically when it comes to some financing of corporate transactions and corporate clients, one of the reasons goldm goldmans' trading moves have been lagging to the extent they start lending and providing more financing, that should give them the opportunity to not only make money there but to win back some market share in the trading business

>> okay. hang on. jim, your call on wells fargo, you're bullish is that purely a valuation call or something else going on >> it's two factors. one is obviously valuation wells fargo is very attractive especially from a dividends standpoint yielding about 3%. second, wells fargo is one of the few banks with something to fix. >> okay. i'm sorry. i misread a signal they just gave me. we got to go i hate to interrupt. i apologize. we have breaking news right now. president trump making some comments on daca just a moment ago. let's listen in. >> and if the democrats aren't going to approve it, then we're not going to do what they want i think it will work out >> you think you have a deal with democrats today >> we're working on a deal for daca, but a lot has to do with the amount of security we want very heavy security at the border we want surveillance we want a lot of things at the boarder. a border

ultimately we don't want them -- just so you understand we're renovating massive sections of wall right now and essentially will be brand new. we'll be able to use that. >> daca now and the wall late sfer. >> daca now and the wall very soon the wall will happen thank you. [ inaudible question ] >> say what? [ inaudible question ] did you what >> did you ask -- [ inaudible question ] >> no. >> mr. president, do you believe daca citizens should have a path to citizenship >> we're not talking about that, not talking about amnesty at all. we have not talked about amnesty. there will be no amnesty we're not talking about that as part of the -- thank you. >> all right the president trying to clarify even more where they stand on the issue of daca after the dinner last night with nancy

pelosi and chuck schumer we'll come back with the closing countdown after this stay tuned

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(slow jazz music) ♪ fly me to the moon ♪ and let me play (bell ring) okay 30 seconds left or thereabouts with the dow up 55 points. the only one of the major averages in record territory for this day by the way, we have oracle's earnings coming momentarily. >> thank a little bit of an

energy rally for what little boost we had, some of the things like marathon moving up today. oil close to 50. >> all right so the other major averages negative into the close here, but the dow yet another record high stay tuned for that and those oracle earnings coming up on the second hour of "the closing bell." and welcome to "the closing bell," i'm sarah ivan for kelly evans. bill will be rejoining us in just a moment. here's how we're finishing up the day on wall street another record for the dow jones industrial average that was the one that stayed positive all day long closing out with a gain united technologies was the biggest winner of the day there. s&p 500 paused, stepping back just behind that 2,500 level

not too far from its own record high nasdaq composite, back .50%. russell 2000 closing fractionally lower materials did well telecom, consumer discretionary, and financials were the laggards ore g oracle set to report earnings after the bell we'll bring you those as soon as they're out any minute now. shares of tesla climbing higher today after elon musk tweeted the company's new truck would revealed in late october former gm vice chair bob lutz will be joining us with his take on the trucking industry impac electric vehicles later. joining the panel, mike santoli, danny hughes, ceo of divine asset management stephanie link with us, managing director and equity portfolio manager of tiaa investments. welcome, everybody, to post 9. >> thank you. >> mike, what stood out? we got the tension release as you said. >> we did. is that what that was? >> first two days of this week, and it's kind of -- i wouldn't say it's gotten tensed up again

but really kind of sitting there. i do think you have to mention how extraordinary it is that the market is able to just kind of hover for a while. the s&p 500, the one-day range today was seven points that's less than a quarter of one point. that's half the average daily range of this year which is by far a record for narrow -- so basically this market manages to kind of sit here at all-time highs which is not a negative thing i would also point out normally in other markets in other times, even this year, perhaps, facebook and google down 1% each the overall market would have taken a hit today. the industrials in the dow jones industrial average kind of held that one up. i think it's kind of more of the same on that it's finding a way to stay supportive for now >> stephanie, what stood out to you? you've noted the rotation among various industry groups that's helped lead this market to new heights. >> yeah, to mike's point i mean, if we had had facebook and google down at 1% a year ago, we probably would have had a struggle in the overall broader averages so this rotation has been the theme all year long. the last week you have seen kind

of a rotation to the reversion mean trades. energy, financials even staples they're the three worst groups in the s&p energy at this point is only 6% weighting in the s&p 500 that's very low by historical standards. there is reason as to why these sectors are doing well because there are tidbits of information that are improving on the margin and people are trying to find value there. i mean, with energy, you have the weak dollar but also have better inventories with financials you certainly had better inflation data and also had a bounce off the very lows of the ten year i can see why the sectors are doing a little better. we'll spr to see if it has longevity. we've sign fits a s we've sign fits aeen fits and s before or do we go back to technology and call it a day? >> i would say the dollar is a big overwhelming or underlying foundation, the dollar being down about 10% this year, i think, has helped a lot of different asset classes. it's helped stocks, it's helped

oil, it's helped gold in some cases as well. i think that overwhelmingly when we see the dollar continue to get hammered, we're going to see people still start to throw money into assets that have been inflated because don't forget, we are all still bowing at the altar at the central banks and we will continue to do that i think until something happens in that regard. >> oil, by the way, did go back above 50 for wti today but closed just below it. >> as promised we have oracle's earnings josh lipton, how did larry ellison's company do >> reporter: bill, oracle reporting eps of 62 cents versus expectations of 6 0 cents. revenue $9.2 billion the street models $9.03 billion. looking through the divisions here here, bill, total clad revenue up to $1.5 billion software licenses $966 million the biggest part of the software business, software license updates and product support,

$4.95 billion. in a statement, ceo mark herd saying with software service revenue up 62%, our cloud applications business continues to grow more than twice as fast as sales force i'm going to be speaking to ceo mark herd in just a bit here to get his response to these results and i'll bring you that reaction first thing tomorrow morning. guys, back to you. >> josh, thank you. >> stephanie, was that a wow i heard from you >> cloud are real goly good. a bit distorted from accusations. the organic numbers. clearly that's going to have implications on the marmggins sd for the time being i was chuckling, they go after salesforce, salesforce goes after them the point, this is a growth business kploud is here to stay cloud is growing their transition, this particular company is doing a very good job transitioning away from legacy into the higher growth businesses and starting

to see the results that's now three quarters in a row of a beat. we'll see what they do on the guidance in templs terms of raise. up 37% year to date. trading at 16 times calendar 1818s is number, attractive. i own it i like it. >> i would agree wholeheartedly. growth, it's massive last quarter, cloud growth 58% they were talking around 50% estimating between 48% and 5 % that's massive growth. that will continue across the board. look at amazon, look at crm, i mean, we're going to see big numbers from all of those guys they think i agree with you, i own oracle, i've owned it for a long time as well we did take profits at 50, thoug though it looks like the stock is up on this pretty nicely. >> up almost 2%. >> the street has kind of bought into this story we're hearing right here on the desk which

makes all kinds of sense, right? it's only a high single digit grower iningaggregate next year. the chart did nothing. into the middle of last year the stock looks like microsoft did at an earlier stage sat down then it took into this new range. oracle somewhere in between what you'd consider the toold dead tech, ibm, cisco, much cheaper than the other cloud play. i think there's a lot to draw more investors into the idea. >> i'm glad you brought up the valuation. stephanie you, said 17 times next year -- >> calendar. >> which -- where should we be looking? that's a long way away from crm. sal salesforce's valuation >> if you're looking at microsoft at 23 times, these guys about 16 1/2, 17 times, calendar next year numbers, next year numbers actually going higher here's the thing, guys we've been waiting for this transition for years. >> yes. >> for years it's now just starting

three quarters in a row is really great trend let's see if it keeps continue think about microsoft when it started to move, when it started to work. i think the next one to go will be cisco a year ahead of cisco to see that transition work these companies are trying, these legacy companies are trying their best to find the growth and think it's very encouraging that when they're going after cloud, this is the growth vehicle and kind of all the parties can win. >> yeah. that was going to be my question to you, is oracle a special situation that you like over the others or can you buy any of these guys that discovered the cloud suddenly and are making hay? >> they didn't just discover it. i think the growth will continue over time. i think the story i like also with oracle, $12 billion run rate within 2 years is pretty amazing. you knows, another story is they said they were going to hire 5,000 people over the course of this year. i think they've already hired about two-thirds of that that's a great story for america in general. >> i don't know, am i overdoing

it when i say this reminds me of the '90s when anything that had a dotcom attached did well and -- >> there's something to that, everybody wants to invoke the buzzword and say, look, that's us, too, but i do think when it comes to oracle, look, you're looking at the buildings, the top-line grow a little bit quicker than a couple years ago. shows you there's a little more to it than somebody saying we're going to reka tcategorize the business we had as cloud you might be able to charge with other enterprise technology companies with doing. >> you're talking about operating leverage, a really powerful thing. >> okay. energy and now cloud what else do we like here? what do you like >> i don't like financials right here for a lot of different reasons i think that, you know, trading -- trading is getting hit all over i think that's been happening for many years now, though that's a story that's been going on since 2009 and that's continuing to hurt the big banks. i do like energy but i like also alternative energy as well. one great story is pattern energy pegi we own it. we've owned it for a long time

gives a nice dividend. it's wind farms. not just in the united states. we're not worried about, you know, any kind of legislation saying that that doesn't matter anymore, let's just go to coal it's also in chile and japan and a number of other countries. >> i am betting that you're going to take the other side of the financials. >> i will. certainly need rates to go higher absolutely do. >> they're creeping. >> they are. >> back up, what, the 201, 202. >> right the valuations are good. the deregulation is good for them all of that is good. even the guidance, conferences this week, on fik, everyone is obsessed with. down 15%, 20%. we know activity stinks at this point. what's hitting -- caterpillar -- >> utilities. >> cummins. >> the weak dollar plays they also have really good stories. i still like the industrial trend. >> did you see "the new york times" had a whole column on vix today? >> i did

what is that -- what are we seeing here? >> it's interesting. people are focused on why the market has been so common. dissidence between people seeing headlines that seem very kind of disruptive and the vix is being what i would argue the vix at 10 1/2 is overstating how volatile the market has been. the vix looks rich relative to how the market has behaved. >> that was the point of the column. >> that was the point. so i think the more people come on to that idea, look, i think you could also make the case a lot of people have become too comfortable betting against volty vol volatility exchange traded instruments that benefit from volatility staying low. i don't think we've swung all the way on the pendulum yet. >> we got to go. thank yaou, dani, good to see you. stephanie, still celebrating rafa's win at the u.s. open. >> private joke. >> private joke. see you later. elon musk announcing tesla will unveil its semitruck late next month

how could this impact the entire trucking industry. robot workers are often seen as a cheaper alternative to human labor, but that could soon be changing in san francisco whether the city will adopt a tax idea from bill gates is coming up. and of course, we always love to hear from you. you can contact the show here on twitter, on facebook, you can u' wchs. yoreating cnbc, first in business worldwide not reacting to market downturns. focused on what you love, not how your money will last through retirement. let us help you with those decisions, and get on with your life. we make it easier to plan for retirement with day one target date funds from prudential. look forward to your 401k plan.

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shares of tesla traded higher today after elon musk tweeted that the company would be unveiling its semitruck next month. phil lebeau has the details from what we can expect here. phil >> reporter: sarah, really it's more speculation than anything at this point because all we have is the tweet and silhouette image of the tesla semitruck this has been out there for some time this is not a new image. this has been out there several weeks at least and elon musk tweeting last night, "tesla semitruck unveil and test drive tentatively scheduled for october 26th in hawthorne. that's southern california "worth seeing this beast in person it's unreal. it brings up the question, just how big is the semitruck market in the united states yes, there's about 2.7 million semis out on the road in the united states, but annual sales are relatively small compared to

commercial -- or to retail cars you and i would drive. 166,000 sold in 2016 the price range depends if it's got a sleeper cab or not it's somewhere between $95,000 and $120,000 that's the list price. cummins engine we should point out unveiled its own electric semi within the last month and cummins engines and other major players, navastar, volvo, they're moving toward electric trucks as well the question, guys, whether or not tesla because of its background and because of the buzz surrounding the vehicles that they make already, will, you know, turn the heads of trucking companies at this point, that remains to be seen. clearly, fuel is the biggest expense outside of labor that the trucking companies face. so if there's the chance that they could use an electric truck and right now you're taking a look at the cummins one, if there's a chance they could save money with an electric truck, they certainly would be interested

remember, this is a relatively small market compared to the vehicles you and i buy and the general public buys. >> all right, phil, stay there let's talk about this. the question being can tesla be competitive in this growing electric trucking space? joining us, krcnbc contributor, former gm vice chair, mr. car, himself, bob lutz. welcome back, bob. >> good to be here. >> we know you're not a than of tesla to begin with, you don't think they can make cars properly, electric cars. what about commercial trucks, is this a viable idea for them? >> no, i don't think so. it's just like everything that tesla promises it looks good on paper it sounds good it greatly helps the stock valuation and it prepares the ground for the next capital raise which you and i both know is coming at the rate that they're burning through cash so this is more show business. it will undoubtedly work but the real question is, can he meet everybody else's pricing as phil said, $90,000 to

$120,000, that's about where tesla sells their big sedans and there's far more batteries the biggest cost item, of course, in a semi or any electric vehicle is the batteries and those semis have huge amounts of batteries. at the price range of $90,000 to $120,000, i would guarantee you that he will not make money. and it will be just like all electric vehicles up to now, they're offered, some people buy them, but nobody has made a dime on building and selling an electric vehicle to this date. >> bob reminds us of when you told us tesla supporters are like members of a religious cult. >> yep exactly. >> phil, what's the bull case for the feasibility of this? >> the bull case is -- let me answer this quick, bob, then i'd love to get your thoughts. >> yeah. >> the bull case, sarah, is? you are a trucking firm, and you have a designated route,

wherever it might be, and you know that your trucks are generally going to be making runs on that particular route every single day, if you can bring the cost down because you know that you have the battery power that you can handle the load, then it makes sense. but the argument against that, and bob can talk about this, is if you're a long-haul trucker and making a run, let's say, from, i don't know, chicago down to new orleans, do you have the battery power so that -- >> a lot of electricity -- >> so the trucks can be efficient. where are you going to recharge it these are all the questions along with the infrastructure that would need to be answered. >> yeah. >> bob >> that's a big part of the problem is even cramming the thing full of batteries, you're still going to have limited range. and unlike a truck with diesel fuel, as the diesel fuel burns, the truck gets lighter and lighter and it ge gets more and more efficient as it goes. you drain the electricity out of the battery, you still have those thousands of pounds of

lithium ion just sitting there so phil's right on predictable routes, by the same thing goes for buses, urban buses on known city routes. sure, they can be made efficient, but the point is, folks, the trucking industry is not going to buy these things unless they save money doing so. this isn't -- these aren't people who are captivated by a vision or want to save the planet these are people who operate by spreadsheets and if you show them lower operateing costs ten they'll be interested but they got to be interested with without all the state and federal subsidies. the minute you start pouring all those subsidies at it, you're looking at a fake world where the government is supporting something inefficient. >> all right mike >> phil, presumably the long-term strategy for tesla, as with, perhaps, all of its vehicles, is looking toward an a autonomous driving future so would that not further kind of work into the equation for a

commercial trucking firm to figure out the total cost of ownership down the road? >> sure. well -- as bob points out, it's all about the dollars and cents. and whether or not if it's autonomously driven and let's say you can work in a platoon method, which is one of the ideas that is out there that eventually you have two or three trailers that are playing off of the lead vehicle and then they're splitting off at some point and making a delivery somewhere. absolutely it could make sense financially. you got to run the numbers -- >> yeah. >> -- and that's not going to happen initially. >> no. >> that's down the road. >> and tesla has no lead in autonomous vehicles. other people are just as far along. cadillac with supercruise now launching is cig csignificantlya of tesla capable in terms of safe vehicle autonomy. my main -- i love elon musk, i love the vehicles, i think they

drive great. the reason i'm down on tesla is everybody thinks there's some sort of magic sauce out there, that he's got a battery that nobody else has. no he uses the same lithium ion technology as everybody else it's lithium ion with a little bit of cobalt added. and everybody and his brother is coming into that space phil mentioned the truck producers but in cars, it's porsche, audi, volkswagon, mercedes-benz, presumably all the japanese and most of the american brands. they're all going to get the same range and they're all driven by federal fuel economy regulations which is the reason people are building a lot of electric vehicles in the first place, even though there's a notable, notable lack of people lining up to buy them. >> i'm assuming you're not going out to the parking lot now to get in your leaf right now >> no. >> good to see -- good to see you, bob we got to go thanks for joining us today.

phil, always good to see you we'll wait to see what happens october 26th when they make that unveiling. >> tesla shares have been flat over the last few months over the last 12 months up 92%. >> they keep going. the ceo of equifax being called to testify now in front of congress after that data breach exposed the data of more than 140 million u.s. consumers. coming up, we've got someone who says equifax will not be able to weather this storm he will make his case. and yet another blow for bitcoin on the heels of jamie dimon calling the crypto currency a fraud on tuesday. we have details mi ucongp.

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time thousand fnow for fast. we begin with bitcoin, the crypto currency plunging today, down 12.3% on news one of the biggest exchanges in china will shut down its operation at the end of the month mike, china's been cracking down hard on bitcoin. plenty of other places where this is trading, but that was -- >> there is, but this is one of those moves that is a little bit of a test of exactly how much bitcoin demand, perhaps, was about, you know, ways of getting capital out of china that's been the story for a long time stories about north korea utilizing bitcoin. i do think it's a reminder that it operates kind of at the whim or with the tolerance of governments and, yes, you can tell me that the overall technology makes sense and you

really need bitcoin to be worth a lot to get the technology developed. that's kind of the way it works. but if you can't exchange in and out of other currencies using the banking system, it's going to be difficult. >> impossible to tell -- >> to get going. >> -- what it's worth as an asset. >> there's no way. what's fascinating when you have something hike this happen and pulls back hugely in price, part of the bitcoin bull case, nobody else gets it the official authorities don't understand it. that's why it's worth something. they don't want us to have a great thing that's who a lot of money. same with the gold case. >> i'm with julian robertson, if you can explain it to me -- >> the underlying technology, something very different than the -- >> yeah. >> even jamie dimon who called it a fraud, said he'd fire anybody that trades it, it's tulip mania. >> bitcoin. >> jp morgan has been testing this theorem-like quorum -- >> no one is going to get excited over the way of documenting transactions invisibly, not something the average investor is going to much care about.

that's in the guts of the financial system. next, activist investor nelson peltz yacktman plans on voting in favor at the next meeting. nelson peltz wants a seat on the board. shares of p&g today i think were trading higher yes. up -- >> three months. >> the three-month chart -- >> very good for the stock. >> this is very interesting. don yacktman is not one to rattle cages. >> says in the release since their founding in the early t ' they've not been outspoken but felt they were compelled to do so that's how strong their conviction was in peltz joining this board like the fact he has a heavy stake. peltz, that is they like his ideas for his company. >> yeah. it's certainly interesting because the question has been when you have an activist in

there, you're going to have traditional long-only fund managers tipically they'll say if i don't like what's going on, i'm going to sell the stock. these folks like the business. i mean, they don't own enough of it really to sway the vote. >> $1.3 million. >> if you have a flock of other investors -- the point is, put him on the board, perfectly valuable as a voice on the board. i don't know if it's an endor endorsement of breaking up p&g it's saying why not have him on there? >> the knock is they're a closed community, not open to new ideas which nelson peltz feels he has. >> he's not talking about breaking it up. >> not initially, sure. >> he would be 1 of 12 board directors. >> exact hi. >> that's the other -- finally, the gig economy is driving new york taxi medallion owners into debt uber are and other ride-hailings have become fierce competition we know that for what was once considered a sound investment. new york city has the largest taxi fleet in the country. 2014, medallion was worth $1.3

million but some recently sold at auction for as little as $150,000 this has been an ongoing story. >> the numbers are very -- another number, you know, new york city caps the number of medallions at just over 13,000 there's the supply right there there are more than 60,000 cars involved in the ride-sharing business that is major competition. >> in new york. >> for those guys. >> in york. >> exactly. >> tremendous market share loss just on that basis, exactly. no, look, the companies that finance the medallion purchases have been destroyed in the stock market a company called medallion financial. by the way, over the years a lot of comparisons were made between taxi medallions and seats on the new york stock exchange. they were limited in number and allowed you to do business of course, the exchange was sold at a time that basically cast the seat members out they had a long similar decline because of technology as well. and, i mean, it's not going to

reverse clearly. it's unclear that sort of the regulatory defense is probably not there. >> i wonder how many taxi drivers have become uber drivers. >> i was just going to say, i've heard those anecdotal stories, for sure. all right. time for cnbc news update with sue herera, hi, again, sue. >> hello, again, guys. here's what's happening at this hour tropical storm max strengthening into a category 1 hurricane off mexico's southern pacific coast. and is forecast to make landfall later today. the region includes the resort city of acapulco. floodwaters continue to rise in parts of florida. in pasco county, triver crested along its banks. the river is expected to flood more over the weekend. a robert e. lee statue was defated in roanoke the words "rest in peace heather heyer" were painted on the structure. heather died last month after a car plowed into a group of people at a charlottesville unite the right rally.

police looking for vandals who dumped blue paint over the iconic charging bull on wall street they said the paint was noticed on the bull's head around 7:30 a.m. this morning then a sash was draped over the neighboring fearless girl statue as well it read, "draw the blue line." which new york city police call an apparent reference to the paris climate accord you're up to date. that's the news update this hour bill, sarah, down to you. >> all right, sue, thank you very much. >> you can protest but leave that standing girl alone. >> leave the bull alone for pete's sake. >> true. equifax losing nearly a third of its value since it announced the data breach. shares tumbling further today after the ftc said it was investigating. up next, the debate on whether the company can soon become a takeover target for other credit reporting agencies. and president trump visiting hurricane irma victims in naples, florida, earlier today coming up, we'll get a check on the rebuilding process and the cost

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let's take a look at how we finished the day on wall street. the dow was the real outperformer closed higher by 45 points

small gains but enough to put it at a new record high the s&p 500 pausing. it was higher earler in the session. actually reached an intraday record high. it closed marginally lower the nasdaq pulled back a half a percent. the russell 200 0 down a little more than a tenth. phil, the dow on track to have its best week still since back in april. >> yep. will equifax shares -- closed down again today. now down more than 30% since announcing last week the 143 million accounts that were potentially breached and today the federal trade commission said that it will also investigate that data breach along with many states and congress, in fact, ceo rick smith, will testify on capitol hill on october 3rd can equifax survive this situation? >> we got a pair of lawyers joining us now mark grossman, technology lawyer in private practice. mark, founding partner welcome to both of you marks mark gross marngs i'man, i'll sh

you. you have a a dire -- that ex- x equifax, excuse me, will not survive this you're looking at losses pile up this was their business. they were supposed to be in. >> absolutely. we've seen a $6 billion loss in market cap estimated losses from these breaches in excess of $20 billion. when i was on this air a few days ago, one class action today, 23 and growing. congress is just getting rolling. the insurance companies have yet to file sub ligation actions banks have yet to file lawsuits. this is ugly the facts are still unfolding. it's going to get worse. i'd rather invest in a company selling nuclear technology to north korea, this is nuclear and equifax is growing this is bad. >> mark, you're taking the other side of the trade? >> to the extent possible, certainly doesn't look good for the company i'm struggling with, we're going to have a situation where the shareholders are going

to be the ones that take most of the pain given the alleged extent of the breach, 143 million i think affected, a lot of those shareholders are also people whose personal information was hacked i'm going to be curious to see, mark, how some of the damages theories play out in some of these class actions. certainly not good that my social security number is now in the hands of somebody that, you know, wants to do harm right? but how am i damaged and exactly what measure of financial harm did i suffer in those cases? so it's going to be very interesting to see how that plays out. >> absolutely. i feel sorry for the shareholders it is unfortunate. that doesn't impact the tact that consumers are hurt and doesn't impact the level of damages right now. the $20 billion number i talked about comes from gardner group based on an ibm methodology. it's an ugly number and while shareholders may be hurt, it's not a pretty picture >> i mean, $20 million billion, potential liability, the company's market capitalization

is only worth $11 billion. >> thus where we're pointing to, pointing to a bankruptcy, pointing to a takeover, pointing to nothing pretty. >> you raised this first thing -- >> yeah, obviously seems like simply -- yeah, the bonds are selling off, too obviously, the market is sniffing out the possibility that, in fact, solve venn solveg to be threatened down the road i'm wondering, what's the significance of the ftc getting involved in this stage it's been posed out there it's not really the norm. what does that suggest for how this might proceed >> to me, it suggests reading the tea leafs perhaps more aggressive, proactive stance on the part of the ftc in these cases which i think is appropriate. obviously the new people in charge at the ftc under the trump administration are trying to maybe flex some muscle and protect consumers here but it raises a really good question to me, it's one of the things at the heart of this story, how do you change the consumer behavior in this country?

every time we use a web app to order food or order a ride share car or go on insta gram, facebook, i'm not singling out those companies, we are agreeing to the terms of use that nobody reads to share massive amounts of our private information every single day how are we going to change those behaviors, can you change those behaviors so that our personal information is really protected? >> mark grossman, with congress getting involved with their investigations, rick smith going there to testify, could this potentially lead, as it often does, to a new law in this particular case, on cyber security >> i think it's almost inevitable i see this as the straw that broke the camel's back join think about it and compare our privacy protections s to w they have in the eu, it's a joke in this country. we have protections on videotape -- >> what should that law look like what would it say? >> it would legislate for proper protection it would require people to -- for example, in europe, you have a right to be forgotten.

so if you have data online, and you want google to lose it and take it offline, you have the right to do that you have the right to control the use of your data you don't have to give up the e qu equivalent of your social security number in europe. these are the kinds of things that go on in this country we only protect medical data, protect financial data it's a patchwork it's time we had something more comprehensive m comprehensive much like what they have in europe. >> the company should have been able to police themselves especially if they were selling themselves to protect your identity. >> that's the amazing part they should have this is like the firehouse burning down in the middle of a forest fire. i mean, we have all these cyber security breaches, sony, target. this is the repository of aefb's data and they couldn't protect it you know what, the federal government had its breaches by foreign powers it's going to continue to happen >> it's over. >> it's over for privacy. >> we have to go at this point good conversation, though, guys. thank you both for joining us. >> thank you, always a pleasure.

the taxman cometh for robots working in san francisco we have that story coming up. but first, hurricane irma damaging 90% of homes in the florida keys as fema makes its way down there to assess the damage president trump traveling to ft. 'lgethlaidnaples, flora. wel t e test for you on that recovery process next you're watching cnbc first in business worldwide. ♪

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florida today to assess damages from hurricane irma as fema continues its work throughout that state contessa brewer still in miami with a look at the recovery process there. contessa >> reporter: bill, the first lady was showing off the video she was seeing on the aerial tour before they landed and president trump upon leaving said that the damage was horrific, but that florida's spirit was great certainly their strength is because rebuilding is going to take a herculean effort. president trump, in fact, praised the federal, state, the local response when he toured ft. myers and naples today >> almost all of the roads are now open and the ports are just about open what we had to do to get some of those ports open people wouldn't even believe that we did it so quickly, so we're very proud of the job that everybody around has done >> reporter: he also praised the historic utility repair team assembled from all over the country. florida power and light promises east coast customers will have

power by sunday. and the west coast by a week from tomorrow. but for the 1.4 million customers who still don't have electricity, boy, it's a hang time to go without air-conditioning down here cell service is also problematic throughout the florida keys, naples, ft. myers and other areas. at&t dispatched a fleet of drones to diagnose damage. verizon's hauled in a tower on a tractor trailer to replace in the keys one that toppled. boats are setting up portable cell sites and generators and charging stations throughout the affected areas it's easier to get gasoline though it's still scarce in the hard-hit areas american society of civil engineers gives florida a "c" for its quality of infrastructure they say ports, bridges, airports, get high marks sanitation not doing so well and the real question here is, is florida, is d.c., willing to spend the money to build up hurricane protection ahead of the next big one bill, sarah?

>> contessa, we've been talking about how miami, in particular, is such a financial hub. are businesses back at work? are people back at work? is there power in the greater miami metropolitan area? >> reporter: yeah, the power is back on. the stop lights that you can see at the traffic stops are now working. the airport is back open for business the fancy hotels here in the brick l avenue neighborhood, wall street south, are open for business diners are packing them. yeah, i'm looking around here and still see hurricane debris, lines of yachts coming out from their protective spaces from the hurricane yet things seem normal here in miami. >> now, we heard from agricultural officials this morning that at least they're in south florida, 50% to 70% of the citrus crops and some of the winter vegetables have been devastated to this point that's not good news that was some of their worst fears. >> reporter: you know, i got to tell you, i was in homestead, a

big agricultural community you're driving through and i saw an entire grove of avocado trees all on their sides palm tree gardens completely uprooted it's just one after the other after the other. i think that you're going to see the prices trickling down at the grocery store if they've lost so much produce florida, of course, is responsible for so much of our winter produce. >> yep and i heard -- this is heartbreaking. one farmer with an orange groves said this was going to be a bumper crop. he said this was going to be the year they finally made it into the black after a number of years of losses and now this happens and his entire crop is gone. >> wiped out. >> it's very, very tough for a lot of the folks down there in that area. contessa, thanks, as always. >> they'd have to go to the caribbean next where some of the images are still unbelievable. >> president said he's going to the virgin islands and elsewhere next week. this next story is not man versus machine but rather the

taxman versus machine maker. that's in san francisco. details on a possible robot tax in that city and then coming up in the next hour or "fast money "", bitcoin having its worth day since january. tom lee will make his caseor f why you should keep buying the crypto currency. (baby crying) (slow jazz music) ♪ fly me to the moon ♪ and let me play (bell ring) marcopolo! marco...! polo! marco...! polo! marco...! polo! marco...! sì? polo! marco...! polo! scusa? ma io sono marco polo, ma... marco...! playing "marco polo"

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robots working in san francisco could soon become taxpayers. our aditi roy is here to explain. ade aditi? >> reporter: this is butler that you see, it's a hotel robot

butler he's actually manned by andy at the front desk he says it helps him run the hotel more efficiently but critics say robots hurt the u.s. economy by displacing human workers. city supervisor jane kim is exploring the idea of putting forth a ballot measure that includes a robot tax she was inspired by bill gates' comments on the issue in support of a robot tax earlier this year basically it would work the same way taxes on humans do they would be taxed on income and things like social security. critics of that say that you know what, that wouldn't work, it would kill innovation, that robots like butler there could focus on menial tasks, like delivering water, while humans like andy over there can focus on greeting customers and more

higher level and higher paying jobs back to you guys >> the whole idea is they are replacing human beings who would otherwise be taxpayers so the city would be losing tax revenue. this is a way to recoup some of that revenue, is that the idea >> reporter: and it's way to remedy all those workers who might lose their jobs. she points out in san francisco, a lot of people work there who are drivers. and once that automated car technology comes into place, they might lose their jobs they are an important tax base she hopes that the money raised from a tax like that could go towards retraining workers and giving them education so that could help them get back on their feet and eventually into higher paying jobs >> this is going to screw up the whole economics, with tax reform on the front burner, it

subsidizes capital over labor. >> robots can't vote, it's taxation without representation. >> that's true >> are robots tax deductible as a business expense why not take that away >> that's my point, to write off capital on investment. >> aditi, final word >> reporter: it's interesting -- are you guys there >> we're there, go ahead >> reporter: oh, yes it is interesting how much interest this has all generated throughout the city, someone like bill gates would come in and support such a thing we talked to a lot of people in the tech community, for instance the owner of butler who is very much opposed to it and is worried that it's something that would kill innovation. this is an age-old debate for these ages and for these times it will certainly continue >> no doubt, robot unions are still to come here we'll see what happens

thanks, aditi, see you later oracle's earnings call against deway jt unr inusa few minutes. key factors to listen for, when we come back people don't invest in stocks and bonds. they don't invest in alternatives or municipal strategies. what people really invest in is what they hope to get out of life. but helping them get there means you can't approach investing from just one point of view. because it's only when you collaborate and cross-pollinate many points of view that something wonderful can happen. those people might just get

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involving google josh lipton, what's the story? >> reporter: bill, a class action suit has been filed against google here in san francisco over gender pay discrimination we did reach out to the company. here is their statement to cnbc. "we work really hard to create a great workplace for everyone and to give everyone the chance to thrive here. in relation to this particular lawsuit, we'll review it in detail but we disagree with the central allegations. guys, back to you. >> josh, thank you for that update this is only likely to add fuel to the fire that was already started at google and other silicon valley firms about gender equality. apparently this lawsuit claims these women were given lower job levels than their similarly qualified males, and not promotions when they were asked. >> it seems to follow along with what the labor department has been looking at this issue with

google, so it's not brand-new. you're right, you don't want to necessarily bundle all of these kind of attacks on big tech into one thing. it definitely seems cultural, pay, and really just the power these companies have, you know, in putting their work forces together and how they use them, is under assault right now i think on those bigger picture concerns about potential government regulation and everything else, google's stock was down today >> don't expect google to argue biological differences she was exactly. >> oracle's stock, they beat on the top and bottom line. metrics on the cloud were strong the conference call gets started at the top of the hour >> the stock is up 37% year to date this has beenpattern, the street was expecting good numbers. >> we always do a little trash talking when it comes to the

oracle conference. it's been a pretty strong performer. >> it's a great performing stock. we'll see if there's anything that can be a catalyst from here on out >> we're having such a good time, we'll do this again tomorrow thank you for joining us that's "closing bell." "fast money" starts right now. see you tomorrow "fast money" starts right now. live from the nasdaq market overlooking new york city's times square tonight on "fast," energy is surging as oil pushes close to the key level. we'll tell you how to play it. plus items crypto disaster, bitcoin getting crushed, down more than 10% today alone. now officially in a bear market. tom lee says it's still the best investment you can make this year he'll be here to explain why he's