the idea that the internet makes everyone an equal publisher. and some are better than others. and some are kinder than others. and some people use it for good means and some people don't. >> it's not the platform, it's the people >> it's the people >> deeply philosophical. >> get rid of the people, the internet would be great. >> thanks for watching "closing bell" starts now. hi, everybody. welcome to "the closing bell." i'm kelly evans. >> and i'm wilfred frost in for bill griffith. >> welcome >> thank you very much >> a rare interview today with stan druckenmiller we're going to get his take on bitcoin and his favorite stocks right now. a large order for tesla. pepsi making a big bet we'll tell you what's behind that move. and health care. one of the best performing sectors today as talk of consolidation permeates the space. we'll debate whether these are a

good buy into early end and maybe beyond. >> but let's start with today's rally. joining our exchange today is jim kahn, sarge gilfoy, and rick santelli at the cme. rick, i'm going to start with you if i may ahead of the fed meeting tomorrow we've got a bit of a stealth rally in the pound -- the pound. the dollar over the last week or so including a little bit today how many rate hikes over the next 13 months are priced in >> you know, i don't know that much of the dollar activity that we're seeing today is necessarily predicated on what investors think about 2018 whether it's two, three, some are saying four. i really think it's more of a function of the u.s. market kind of bucking the trends of europe, the spreads of our treasuries especially the long end is distancing itself from the yields of the long end of

europe and as that occurs, if you were to put that on a chart, the differential at 210 basis points seems to be one of the factors that could be dragging the dollar up a bit. more in a year-end event and remember, there's a lot of dynamics of europe in particular and central banking in general that would be changing a good deal in 2018 especially the balance sheets of europe i think the dollar is tuned into that a bit just being the counter putter of the euro trade >> sarge, when you look at the markets, the dow is up right now. the ppi was hotter than expected, what do you think is moving us around here today? >> it's not the ppi. we'll wait on the cpi before we do anything based on that. you've got a bit of a chase for performance here you've seen a little bit of a rotation we saw last week. >> out of tech meaning >> right to answer that, the only stocks we bought were tech stocks i think basically right now with

the stock market, you're setting up 2018 like rick said i think it'll be a good year i think you'll see earnings expansion. i think you need to plow into this by the end of the year but you're going to see this little swoon here things have to get right i'm not as hot on health care as the rest is. i'm still hot on energy. i think i'm going to go there and i like techno matter what people do with it. >> i'm going to disagree with him on the ppi number. i thought that was pretty important. we've been talking about inflation for the last ten years and we haven't seen it finally we're starting to see some of all that money that got printed move its way from the banks into the real economy. when that happens, we'll see a shakeup of who's leading in the market and who's lagging in the market >> so ppi the headline was up 3% on the year. >> 3.1%. >> thank you, rick tomorrow the cpi either will confirm that or it won't

and if it does, then we can talk about inflation. but what if it doesn't >> even if it doesn't, the cost of making goods and services is rising it leads to price increases for consumers which we think will come so we'll see cpi move up even if it's not tomorrow, we'll see it move up later in the year or 2018. we'll see margins compress either way we'll see impacts on global equities. >> you won't be able to see unless inflation is 4% to the downside and participation pressure to the upside >> yeah. guys, stay right there earlier today i did speak with stan druckenmiller who is fired up ahead of the fed and tomorrow's decision. take a listen. >> i think the 2% inflation target needs to go if i was running the fed, thank god to the world i'm not running the fed. it would probably not be in my top ten criteria the 2% inflation target has sort

of become a religion initiated by the professors and it's this target an interesting story on the front page of "the wall street journal" today how amazon is making the fed's job more complicated. this belief that 2% is appropriate for all seasons at all times to me is pretty absurd you take the last great innovation period which is the late 1800s, we he diad deflatior 10 or 15 years in the '50s, it was lower for that part of the decade. fed funds were 4%. we had rapid growth. >> that should be considered normal and fine and they could have interest rates up at 4% >> what i'm really saying, i'm not a fan of rigidity given our

economic circumstances would be 4% we're at 1%. in europe, it would be 2%. they're at minus 40% that doesn't even count the bond buying we're talking but this is all in the name of th this. >> if they're keeping rates barely above zero in some countries, in others under, what are the consequences of that >> the consequences are huge we're causing all sorts of what i would call misallocation of resources. >> like bitcoin? or is is that unrelated? >> no, it's not unrelated at all. bitcoin, art, wine, equities, credit, you name it. everything is one way up and there are huge distortions taking place and it's all in the name of this 2% inflation target. when you get a misallocation of

resources, it really hinders growth over the longer term. let me give you an example last week there was a company called steinhoff >> that's the parent company of mattress firm in the u.s. now. >> this is a south african firm. i was lucky enough to be to short the stock because someone explained to me that these guys might be crooks. there was fraud at best when you look another what was going on and they buy this mattress company in the u.s. for 100% over where it was trading. they're borrowing money, big rollout, big credit. and guess why they're able to issue all this debt. because the ecb is buying it when the street knew it was a fraud and going brupt. we lost 160 million on these bonds. it comes out in the wash the point isn't whether the ecb

is making money. the point is whether they are keeping crooks and zombie companies alive. this is exactly what japan did for 20 years it hinders long-term growth. companies like this should not be walking around borrowing money. that's kind of where we are today. you see what's going on in bitcoin. >> do you own any cryptocurrencies >> i don't own any obviously as a trader i should have but i only trade what i know what i do know is it takes the same amount of energy to do one bitcoin transaction that it takes to power nine homes in the u.s. by 2019 it'll take up half the energy in the united states to run the bitcoin network. >> sounds like the utility companies are going to buy >> i found it interest most people in bitcoin are climate people they're west coast people. i don't quite get the connection we've got this rogue currency that we're all going to support that is destroying the climate in some extent, but whatever

>> so you're not going to take a position on whether bitcoin is going to go up to $100,000 or a million or whatever -- if we're talking about bubbles it must look like some of the greatest we've experienced. >> i don't know whether it's the greatest we've ever experienced. look bitcoin is like anything else. it's worth what people are willing to pay for it. and right now people are willing to pay -- i haven't looked in the last five minutes so it could have varied. but let's say they're willing to pay $17,000. that's what it's worth gold is what it's worth. but what i do know about bitcoin is the concept that it could ever be a medium of exchange has been eliminated because you can't do transactions, particularly retail transactions with something with this kind of volatility but if people think bitcoin is worth $17,000, that's what it's worth today. >> last thing on this before you move on. there are people that want to hold bitcoin because they're as critical as the fed and central

banks as you are if you think they're screwing this up, what is a better way to express that than holding bitcoin? >> that's an excellent question. i think at some point figure out when this is going to end. and then get out or go short by the way, when this ends and it will, i'm talking about this monetary radicalism we're in bitcoin will probably go down with the rest of the stuff >> how has the year been for you? >> i would have to say it's probably the worst year i've had relative to the set of opportunities out there. i can never recall i mean, for me, 1997 was close >> but that was an asian financial crisis >> that was pretty good opportunity. i have done very well in stocks. i've really, really mistraded macro. it's going to be -- if it was up to macro, i'd have my first down year but stocks have bailed me out. so barring a miracle, that's not

going to happen. >> but you're not up 30% >> i'm not up anywhere near 30%. i'm not up double digits you know, i'm having, again, relative the opportunity a terrible year, barring a miracle it's going to be my first down year in currencies ever. >> i pointed out repeatedly the fact the u.s. dollar is so weak. would that be one example or other things >> me just overtrading and being cold at the wrong time and since it's been my bread and butter for years, i tell you overallocating exposure there relative to equities somebody on your network said a week ago all you had to do this year was roll out of bed and you're going to be up 20% or 30%. apparently i got out of the wrong side of the bed. >> wow a big admission from him there on the performance front >> self-deprecating. always a pleasure to hear from mr. druckenmiller. of course to get his view on these things >> amazing stuff and we've got more of that to come over the next couple of hours.

let's delve into that particular part rick, i want to start with something we heard at the top of that we heard it's absurd that the 2% target is appropriate for all seasons at all times in terms of inflation targets. what's your view on that >> well, i think a-plus or in lou of olympics, a ten i couldn't agree more. i've been saying the same things for years, as has ira harrison and many of my sources it makes no sense. the world isn't calibrated the same between europe, japan, the u.s. to think there are such high correlations as to what central banks bogey is for inflation it's so arbitrary. and when you listen to janet yellen talk about verizon or as he brought up which i used in my exchange today, the article about amazon and people shopping, listen, milton freeman would be rolling in iz had grave. listen those aren't monetary phenomenons. what central banks are doing with this arbitrary 2% i think is horrible. i think we should get that pillar and destroy it completely

and the notion of lower prices, view it like peter boockvar does these are cost of living adjustments. maybe we should think of a bigger swath of the public with regard to pricing versus the fat cats ahead of all these buildings and big assets where the deflationary asset hits hardest. >> what's interesting as well is he didn't have a great year trading the macro. so this trade has been going against him, so to speak he was quite candid about that whether it's that or bitcoin, timing is everything, right? what choices do investors have if it comes down to kind of, okay, either i'm going to justify the stock market valuations differently or where do i go? >> well, you mentioned stock market valuations. i believe that we will be enjoying liquidity from the marketplace going forward. the fed rolloff of the balance sheet will probably be negative

some time around april the ecb and the boj are finally going to have to move toward a tightening stance. the fed to go against rick and mr. druckenmiller, didn't really respect that 2% target they've been moving the fed funds rate higher now for two years. i hate to defend the fed because i'm not usually their ally, but they have realized that 2% wasn't really the target it's only a target in, hey, we're going to go 16-0 this year if you're bill belichick it's not a realistic target and they reacted accordingingly i don't think that's really something to trade off and i think valuations for stocks will probably move from 19.5% down to 16% or 17% >> is that because earnings expand, they pass tax reform >> we're looking at 11% earnings growth next year without tax reform you give me tax reform and the same conditions, we would have an explosive number which they probably don't want to allow >> do you think one of the reasons bitcoin has been going up is qe and when rates go up is that genuinely a big risk, 13

something that does have structural factors going on too? >> with qe we printed all this money. we stimulate the real economy, all we've done is stimulated assets saying all these assets have become expensive but wages haven't gone up. the costs of, you know, goods and services you get from walmart and amazon haven't gone up so we're not actually seeing that money make it into the real economy. i think that what we're starting to see -- you'll see a decline in our prices, equity prices, and bitcoin. but i think ultimately what happens is through the wealth effect, through that money getting into the economy, we're going to see that wage push inflation and see prices go up at walmart, at the supermarkets. that's what's going to bring this party to an end >> just quick on european credit because there's an interesting comment in there we have the german 10-year back

president spread is incredibly tight between government bonds and credit in europe >> it looks like a great way to carry trade in the u.s if i'm a european investor, i think going stronger over the next 12 to 24 months based on the way the economy is growing and based on they're going to have that in what people don't see coming so i think it probably is a bubble in that sense you'll see pressure on the euro and some pressure on european assets generally. i don't think that the rate divergence between the u.s. and europe is going to be allowed to last much longer >> all right, guys thank you. appreciate all your time this afternoon. jim, sarge, and rick coming up, we have more from stan druckenmiller and a few other stocks he's betting on. still ahead, we'll head to alabama where the outcome of today's special senate election could have major implications for the future of the gop

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zblmp welcome back shares of tesla up today as they get their biggest order yet for semitrucks >> this is a sizable preorder from pepsico it has ordered 100 tesla electric semis and pepsi joins a growing list of corporations that have said, look, we'll take a as few as a hundred of the tesla semis those are more of the notable orders out there when you look at the tesla electric semi, keep in mind that the company's not saying how much it received for the reservations nor is pepsi saying how much it paid for those reservations the list price according to tesla is $20,000 for a reservation per truck. but i should tell you that i've talked to the people in the trucking industry and everybody says the same thing. we never get money for reservations so i'm skeptical that tesla's

getting $20,000 per reservation. there are almost 10,000 trucks in the pepsi fleet this order from 100 when ultimately delivered whether it's 2020, 2021, it's only going to be a small part of the pepsi fleet. if you look at shares, this wasn't doing much two, three, four weeks ago but it has risen since it unveiled the tesla semi in mid-november and really the last week and a half is when we've seen an axcceleration in these shares up more than 3% today. the bottom line is this. you will see more investments like this from other companies at least saying we're interested in the truck doesn't mean they're going to take delivery in 2020 or 2021. but there is also a halo effect here a company can say, yeah, we believe in electric trucks in the future that's why they will announce that they have reserved or preordered a tesla electric semi >> phil, does this -- whether they get a big amount of money or not, does this just increase

pressure once again on tesla's ability to meet orders and deliver on time? and is that still the big outstanding question for this stock price? >> yes yes. 100% now, in the near term, the question is what happens with model 3 production whether it ramps up as the company promises in the first quarter. we know that the fourth quarter, they're still trying to get things straightened out. they should be up to, they say, about a thousand model 3s per week by the end of december. we'll see if that's the case when they report numbers in january. but near term, wolf, you're l k looking at getting into 2021, yes it comes down to whether or not they can "a" deliver the truck on time and meet the demand that might be out there for it >> i think tesla is glad for the capital however they can get it. thank you very much. with just 38 minutes to go before the bell, we've got the dow up around 150 points

it's near the highs of the day again having pulled back in the middle of the day. the s&p up a third of 1% and nasdaq is laggard down 0.1%. up next, republican candidate roy moore arriving on horseback today to cast his ballot in alabama's controversial senate race. the question now is whether his supporters will turn out in force as well. what it could mean for the gop agenda plus more from my interview with stanley dckmierruenll

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welcome back to "the closing bell." verizon upgraded to buy. saying the tax reform should boost its earnings the whole sector is really outperforming today. comcast up on news it's out of the bidding for fox assets and telco is leading the charge today. let's get over to sue herrera. >> here's what's happening at this hour, everyone. president trump repeating his call to overhaul the nation's immigration system in the aftermath of the subway attack in new york city his comments coming during a signing ceremony for national defense authorization act for fiscal year 2018 >> there have now been two terrorist attacks in new york city in recent weeks the first attacker came through the visa lottery and the second

through chain igration we're going to end both of them. congress must get involved immediately. the nfl network has suspended three on-air analysts. mahrshall faulk, heath evans, ad ike taylor after a former employee filed a complaint and also donovan mcnabb and eric davis have been suspended by espn travelers at tokyo's haneda airport were suspected by robots the airport will test the robots until february pretty cool. kind of looks like a luggage version of the roomba. >> kind of cool but they look a bit out of date, if i'm honest that one but look at that one that one's huge.

ukt get smaller, sleeker, faster >> i think that's the security one. maybe he's supposed to be intimidating i'm not sure >> sue, thank you very much. >> thanks, guys. it is decision day in alabama as voters head to the polls in the state's special senate race which has been riddled with controversy, of course john harwood joins us with more from birmingham. >> wilfred, as important and as sensational as this has been, we have no idea first of all you've got doug jones who voted here at there this morning he is hoping to become the first democrat in 25 years to win a senate race in alabama his opponent is roy moore, a republican in line with the state's hard core conservatism but he stands accused of molesting a 14-year-old when he was in his 30s and pursuing for dating purposes other teenagers

at that time here are the key variables when you take into account everything we know about this case. one is defections among republican sub bourban identities like here that is critical for democrats there are so many others in this state. they need to get them. secondly, potential enthusiasm gap. the democrats are hoping their party has greater energy to get to the polls while some of those republicans are discouraged by what they've heard about roy moore and stay home. finally, there's the question of irons. mounted a late multi-million dollar efforts to try to motivate african-americans. but special elections are very difficult to tell who's going to turn out because they come at a regular time so the polling we've seen, fox news poll showed doug jones ten points ahead.

and month moth university showed it tied. we're all going to be waiting to see what happens tonight if doug jones wins this race, that republican majority which is needed to push through the agent on tax reform will push it to narrow margin for error. >> that ma gin or error we don't expect should hurt tax reform but could affect the agenda for 2018 >> that's right. you know, the republicans are hoping to push it through before christmas. a new senator will probably be sworn in just after christmas. it could be pushed back beyond that beyond that, it affects the whole range of things from presidential nominations to infrastructure to the welfare reform and entitlement reform that republicans say they want to pursue. all of that gets more difficult

if they lose this seat and it would put democrats in range given the small number of vulnerable republican seats they're targeting. it would put them in closer range to win the senate back in 2018 that's why democrats are investing so much right now. >> john, did you arrive this morning by hoshs as well it was dark so maybe you didn't arrive by horse. >> you couldn't see the horse i was riding because of the way the camera angle was it was dark and i actually -- i'm good at calming horses so he didn't move while i was on it. >> thank you >> couldn't resist >> i'm sorry the horse part i think is -- >> by the way, you were good on birmingham but then you said controversy. >> i literally cannot win. >> literally turning to tech. earlier today i sat downdrucken.

here's what he had to say about tech and the so-called fang stocks >> i really, really like those names long-term. and those filings don't show what i have against them and it'll be -- >> what do you mean you have against them >> well, they're called shorts. >> are they just hedges? in other words, are you just hedging your exposure or shorts in social media companies? >> i don't really like hedging to me if something needs to be hedged, you shouldn't have a position in it but there's plenty of opportunities to find on the other side >> like ibm which you've traditionally shorted? >> i don't know whether ibm stock is a short right now, but that's the kind of company which to me has been underinvesting buying back stock, paying dividends while their competitors are basically eating their lunch in cloud and in ai and in everything else that is

competitively mispositioned. or like retailers, old dying retailers. i'm sure you know this we have 24 square foot per person in the united states of retail space china has 3, germany has 2 i would call that being over-stored. >> so are you shorting sort of a kbas basket of retail names >> i have been short retail throughout the year and depending on the time period sometimes larger, sometimes smaller. i would expect that theme to continue >> so you're hanging onto amazon even after the run that it's been on. >> i love amazon this company which everyone keeps quoting the multiple is selling for less than three times sales. well, who knows. i haven't checked it in the last few months but the s&p is selling for over two times sales. they're dramatically underearning i don't think looking at the price earnings ratio is the right move here.

you have to look at the long-term earnings power of the company. and they are intentionally underearning i think bezos is incredible. >> do you like the chinese consumer companies for the same reason baidu, tencent >> i really like tencent and i really like their position you know, they're in payments. they've got their own version of netflix. they've got their own version of cloud. wechat is probably the best platform on the entire planet for all of it. if you look at amazon, aws is basically funding all the investments they're making in the other areas. with tencent, their games are funding everything else. >> you own tencent, right? >> yes like amazon, tencent is

intentionally underearning and just -- the long-term growth looks incredible i think it's 40 times earnings and they're going to grow at least 40%. so it's one times growth rate. i still like it. >> this is a little bit different, but what about tesla and elon musk? do you see analogies between what he's doing and amazon and bezos? or is that actually for you a problematic valuation story? have you ever owned it >> no. i'll tell you a funny story about tesla. i had a guy who managed some money for me come in when the stock was $82. and i think i was $62. so i had given myself a tesla for my 60th birthday he had this incredibly effective analysis like 20 pages of financials about why tesla was a short. after this presentation, i said have you ever driven the car and he said no and i sent him his redemption

notice the next week >> so you didn't short it? >> i did not short it. and i don't know why it never occurred to me at the end of that conversation to buy it. but i don't put tesla in the amazon category. they have not proved to me that as a financial model and economic model it's going to work but no, i also don't like to short great products that's not my deal >> fantastic stuff again, kel. i can't wait for more of this. but some of those statistics in terms of retail. 24 square foot per person in the usa. germany two, china three and he could not have been more positive on amazon >> yes after the kind of run it's been on, the thing is not is amazon a strong company it's is amazon worth where it's trading right now. as far as he's concerned -- i love -- you know, i love when people don't have to have the data last time i checked the sales

price it was a couple months ago. so i imagine it would have to be substantially above for him to change his mind of it being overvalued >> of course loves it says bezos is incredible he likes tencent as well people can be very positive on alibaba. but it's not as clear a play there's more competition between a couple of them and he pointed to that with tencent's cash flow coming from game revenue >> i should emphasize this as well in china there is some concern about the relationship between, for example, ma of alibaba and -- jack ma -- and the chinese government in the u.s., you could also say there's concerned about whether regulators are going to be for tough on the fang giants one of the things he said is instead of trying to protect our steel and coal industries should be trying to protect our big tech platforms because it's one of the most essential things we can kind of,

you know, one of the services required for the -- that the rest of the world requires so at a time when there's a lot of anti-trust sentiment devel developing in washington, he would take the other side saying we ought to encourage them to do more business overseas >> and he doesn't like hedging i like that. great stuff. more of that to come in the next hour of "closing bell. still to come in this half, mattel warning of weak holiday sales. and hasbro looking to cash in on "star wars" fever. we'll tell you about hasbro's strategy and which are banking on a skywalker boost with your two resident "star wars" experts kelly and i. we're back in a couple minutes

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points or so the nasdaq the laggard down 15 basis points telcos and banks the winners meanwhile, disney's the last jedi is expected to bring in big box office sales but that's not all they could cash in on up next we'll look at the "star wars" merchandise coming to a galaxy near you. and later stanley druckenmiller explains why he is not investing in apple despite s ve for the other fang names. when we come back. ♪ working as an emt in a small town usually means hospitals aren't very close by. when you have a really traumatic injury, we have a short amount of time to get our patient to the hospital with good results. we call that the golden hour. there's nothing worse than when we're responding to the hospital, and the hospital doesn't have the right specialist.

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disney's newest "star wars" installment is hitting theaters later this week and the lineup of toys are expected to drive major sales this holiday season. julia boorstin has all the details for us >> hey, wilf "star wars" has a big advantage. it has the broadest appeal of any toy brand because kids their parents who grew up as collectors are all buying the toys expected to drive $1.4 billion in "star wars" toy sales this year. now, "star wars" is the biggest franchise over the past year and the biggest of any movie franchise ever

hasbro benefits with licenses for more than half of "star wars" toys and for disney, it'll also benefit because it gets a cut of the $3 billion ttpm projects in retail sales of all the "star wars" branded products that includes games, apps, and clothing and this year's lineup aims to expand the "star wars" appeal. there are more tech toys than ever including droid-building kits, drones that look like fighters, and a $200 lenovo augmented reality headset which includes a light saber rag & bone has a fashion item. most items are sold out including $700 boots and while fans don't want to spend that much, they can find more mainstream apparel that biz knee's partnering with gap, kohl's, and other retailers. dole is licensing characters for "star wars" products and also for its healthy galaxy game on the dole app all these products aren't just

creating licensing revenue for disney, they're also arguably marketing. you can't even go to a grocery store without seeing a reminder you might want to go see the film back over to you >> julie, when it comes to merchandises, which is the biggest grossing of all these sci-fi films or potter >> "star wars" is the bilkest of all time if you go back to the first "star wars," they were starting to produce toys then so historically over the lifetime of the "star wars" franchise, it is bigger than anyone else. also if you look back over the past ten years "star wars" has generated over a billion dollars in retail sales. each of the past ten years so it beats harry potter, all of the others >> they don't need us, wim wilf. it's going to be fine. >> even if we're not buying the toys, they'll do well. >> are you going to see the movie? >> i'll see the movie. i won't rush it the first night

or first week crowds but some point >> julia, thank you. it's going to be a big one maybe even despite -- i don't know if the reviews matter variety says it's the least essential chapter in the series. >> you've seen none of the chapters >> i've seen the original. like way back. i saw those. health care has been a strong performer this year and we have started to see some consolidation in the space we've got a debate on whether there are good buys there when we come back later, stanley druckenmiller tells us whether he likes the tax reform bill onap citol hill and whether it will give more fuel to the fire his answer may surprise you.

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welcome back consolidation in the health care sector does continue it was just over a week ago we saw cvs was looking into purchasing aetna now hospital operators are in deal talks to create the biggest u.s. hospital operator >> is the shakeup in the space the tron get bullish joining us now to discuss it, elan gupta is a believer in the space. but another is cautious here ana, let me start here with you about the consolidation we're seeing is that consolidation driven by

the threat of amazon and if it is, is that a reason we should be cautious opposed to optimistic >> it's in part driven by amazon at least the cvs/aetna merger is both the front store sales have been under pressure. then we've been hearing all of this in the prescription drug markets. i think cvs is in a better position with aetna than it is without aetna. aetna i think had alternatives, you know, beyond merging with cvs. we have very strong player united health that has remained independent. you know, done smaller deals most recently with da vvita andi just killing it if you ask me. so i don't think necessarily consolidation is the answer for

everyone but drugstores, the drug supply chain are under threat now. >> les, why are you more cautious on the space? >> we own united have done very well this year. but i'm concerned that the fundamentals won't get that much better and that, i believe, that we are in for some sticker shock and political backlash this year i don't think people have realized the magnitude of the increases yet. and i think that'll create a lot of noise i will add, though, i'm a little bit of an amazon skeptic i don't see amazon making any radical moves at least in the near term. >> ana, if we talk about the hospital space, more consolidation there, is that a threat to hca? or is that one to own in that space? >> you know, both of these companies are i think responding more to the threat payers. like united health and aetna and so on who are moving procedures

and emergency room visits outside of the hospital is the setting into the ambulatory care setting. sop if they i merge, they are stronger from the stronger point of view of scale and they potentially could get better pricing or rates you know, contractual rates from the payers hca has already been re-engaging in creative consolidation. they've done small deals from community health and tenet and so on. i don't see asession and st. joseph's necessarily a threat to hca and their dominance here >> les, finally here because you mentioned you own and like united health, is that others are acquiring a threat to their strong performance along with the fact they're going up? >> i don't think just yet. i'm a little more bearish on the hospitals. i think the hospitals may continue to see decline because

of outpatient movement and pressure from payers but maybe towards the end of 2018 might be time to revisit hospitals again when they've bought them. but i'm staying far away for the time being of hospitals. >> all right guys, thank you. les and ana, appreciate your thoughts >> thanks. up next, we're coming right back with the closing countdown. >> after the bell i'll have more of my exclusive interview with stanley druckenmiller. there's one part of the tax reform bill that has him outraged you're watching cnbc, first in business worldwide [vo] when it comes to investing,

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get e*trade. welcome back to "the closing bell." two minutes to go until the close. we're just off the highs now up about 129 points on the dow. the high today was closer to 160. the nasdaq is down 0.2%. a couple of the pullbacks there. telco the best performing sector on the s&p all names up 2% to 3%. verizon got an upgrade comcast athed the bidding for fox assets also quick look at the banks over one week. they're also up nicely today second best chart -- second best sector today and had a strong week last week as well

that's largely on tax reform it's a two-day chart bob joins me bob, main things you're looking at >> take a look at the russell 2000 they were higher a little earlier. the russell 2000 has essentially moved into negative territory late in the day. heading south just when rand was making comments. he doesn't like the deficits he's sending messages he wants to do something. that makes the whole thing a little more shaky. banks doin weg well there's a few of them at historic highs finally just on the bitcoin futures, down again today a little bit but the volume is much lighter than it was yesterday. and a lot of people are interested in these alternative cryptocurrencies so light coin, for example is up dramatically today i think a lot of people have made money in boit coitcoin ande

switching to others hoping they will rise as well. so light coin is up today. >> the 10-year hitting 2.4% today. whether that's tax reform or the fed meeting tomorrow but that's it. the bell's going as you can hear new york stock exchange being rung that's it for the first hour of "closing bell. kelly's got the second thank you, wilf. welcome to "the closing bell," everybody. i'm kelly evans. we're finishing with the dow up 121 points there was a lot of sell orders about a billion dollars worth. that pushed up a little bit off the highs there. but we still closed up about 9 119. the s&p up decent. about 0.1% today but the dow is by far the

performer. 2 24,064 is now the high dropping a quarter president today to 1516. two higher, two lower. we'll have much more as well from my exclusive nterview wit stanley druckenmiller. this hour we'll get his take on apping, tax reform, and jay powell joining me now michael santoli along with nancy tangler and courtney gibson. welcome, everybody the big leader on the dow today by the way was boeing. and the laggard was 3m led the big day on deal news, macerich and while iron mountain was down what do you make of the fact we were -- it's a completely different story which market you look at. >> first of all, the dow 100 of the 120 points was boeing and

goldman sachs. that was just two moving on their own. that is where that's an outlier. the average start in the market, kind of flat it was a mild rotation from the big growth into value. this market, what it does on any given single day tends not to be all that impressive. what's been impressive is over the course of a year, the ability to draw strength for more, it has to. and to kind of keep tilted in an upward direction >> nancy, what do you make of that we have the industrials and a lot of that was just boeing on some announcement we told you about last night but goes one way nasdaq goes the other. russell goes the other how would you be reading the way that markets are moving here lately >> yeah, i mean, hi kelly. hi, mike i don't think we need to read too much into it we do have tax law selling going on we're doing it for our clients at the moment. there is a lot of rotation

that's short-term. but in general, things like a 20% dividend increase for boeing are really important for future view of what management thinks the company can continue to sustain from a free cash flow basis. so we own it, we like it, we are holding it here. and we think that makes a lot of sense. you've got ash so the pharmas like j&j and merck had a nice day today. and you've got people moving defensive. verizon is another stock we added recently that had a great day. little upgrade here and there and you get movement i don't think we can read too much into it >> ash is that hematology conference meg's been at we had a lot of news out of courtney, what about you the nasdaq has been weaker is it tax law selling? should we read that much into it >> i think there are really good names in the market right now. you can talk about boeing and it's a free cash flow story. but they're in an area they expect to put together a lot of money. they expect to build a lot of

planes, more people are traveling. we talked about the airline stocks and what's been going on there. goldman. goldman has trailed the banks for awhile now i think all year i mean, and candidly, it being up 6% relative to its competitors, this is a day i wish i would have gotten goldman yesterday. i keep saying that over and over again. i think it's finally starting to catch up with its peers. and so i think you want to get in or you're maybe a little late >> speaking of the banks, we had them kind of generally rallying today. tomorrow we have the fed decision on interest rates the biggest mover was goldman. the fed expected to raise rates by a quarter point tomorrow. we have mike welles up 2.5%, morgan up 2% what's up here >> first of all, i think they're very well loved. whenever there's a sign the longer term yields will nudge higher, it gives clearance for the banked toot pretty well. when you have utilities selling off, it shows the market is oriented toward -- growth is

looking firm the 2-year yield has been the best guide strauss-kahn 23409 about the yield curve. that's not the game anywhere they're not sitting there with a warehouse fall of corporate bonds. or kind of spread lending product that works it's about repricing deposits. it's a tremendous piece of it. >> and the good story of what they're doing. the banks are doing some incredible things. i mean, if you think tax reform is going to come into play, look at the core business of the goldmans of the world. they're doing stock buybacks very similarly to capital. at the end of the day, next year if you actually get this tax bill done which is not priced into all these names, i think you do start to see the banks continue to move ahead and steam ahead candidly >> at the same time we had a lot of the big money center banks tell us they're not having a great period for trading how do you feel about -- who would you be an owner of here? >> we've been buying around the edges. you may recall, i've had toe

se - to sell the super regionals. we've been adding through blackrock, visa which you can argue is a technology company. but i do think that they are not going to benefit as much from the curve as they are from deregulation we're not in there aggressively. >> that was my way of saying they're a consensus pick nine of the ten strategists, financials was one of their preferred picks. >> which in a way makes their rally more notable >> yeah. on rotational type tape, they'll have their days. >> goldman was out with a new note today but it was talking about corporate tax cuts saying if they take effect in 2019, the one-year delay may seem disappointing, but if you combine that with the physical

assets in other words, if you do that in 2018, then you have a supercharged expense next year more so than any prior incentive enacted by congress in the last 15 years goldman is saying i just wonder if that all comes about if people are going to be asking is this what we're begging for right now. said the market is right now for the companies. that's because it's a signal they see high returns going forward from their business. if it takes a kind of one year accelerated appreciation from the tax code -- does that signal anything about that business is it better today or just about let's do it now sfp. >> and the industrials were at an all-time high >> yeah. no, absolutely mike, i'm right there with you, to be honest with you. is this the economy we should be doing? i mean, i'm not going to turn it away, but is that money going to be put to work the way it needs to be? i'd like to see what happens

with infrastructure. >> actually we have breaking news here with elan out of washington >> the republican tax plan appears to be coming together. two people who have been briefed on this plan tell me that those details include a 21% corporate rate a top individual rate of 37% the mortgage interest eduction that would now go up to loans worth $750,000 and the pass through deduction would go to 20%. now, there is some debate over when exactly that corporate rate would kick in. whether it would start in 2018 or in 2019 but my colleague at the white house eamon javers said a white house official does confirm all of those details they call this the current state of play and says that the members of the conference committee both of the house and on the senate, they'll be going to the white house for lunch tomorrow so it looks like the details of this tax plan coming together

again 21% is one of the major headlines there. i do want to caution, though, we still have a whole night of negotiations ahead of us the final bill has yet to be actually released to the public. but it looks like these are the parameters that lawmakers are agreeing to now. >> okay. four key planks in here. thank you. mike, most interestingly because it was unexpected, they're dropping the highest to 37%. is that them saying we know s.a.l.t. is going to be a hit? much more on the higher income brackets that was the idea of tax reform. we were going to get rid of the deductions and lower the rates this is the first time it goes lower from present right now. >> if i'm trying to remember how the house and senate bill differed on the individual top rate but i do think this is lower than both or it's closer to the lower of the two and then raising the mortgage interest deduction which also is

helping higher income people >> and it's funny when we talk about that corporate tax rate just bumping up to 21% people said trump wants 15%. trump's a businessman. you anchor low here we're coming in at 21%. one can also come back to this and i know you know this well, the effective tax rate of our u.s. corporations anyway and whether or not it helps or whatnot. but small caps, we didn't see the russell rallying this should help the small cap names tomorrow >> nancy, a word on this >> yeah. i think one of e the things this administration and thiscongres is very aware of is the average individual thinks their taxes is going to go up yet it's only about 7% of individuals. so this is important, i believe, to get sort of a rallying cry behind the bill for the midterm election so i don't -- i agree with kourtn kourtney i don't think 21% is a big deal. i'll take 21% over 27% any day as an effective tax rate and 35% at the top

>> we don't need to implement this in 2019 2018 will be fine. we don't need to supercharge capex. >> it could be look, there's so many of these things that were slipped into the bill you know, you have a lot of these kind of -- i would say ugly tradeoffs that you had to do as part of the process. a lot of this is to clean some of that up or at least easethe way. >> let's talk bitcoin. those futures did trade for the second full day today. >> looks weaker. they didn't sore do you have bitcoin? >> i do not. i was hoping you wouldn't come to me. that's why i did >> it's not that i don't get the technology it's i don't understand what's driving it so i'm going to miss things. like amazon. where there are no earnings for

the most part. i was at -- i think i mentioned in my talking points i was a a conference this morning where they said the bad guys are no longer using bitcoin they're moving to other cryptocurrencies that's all i have to add on the subject. >> well, that's a good anecdote. kourtney, anything from you? >> it's funny. i have a story for you i always talk about when main street's talking about it, i get concerned. it's time to get out of it now i have mainstream and my mother talking about on saturday, honey, someone told me to put money in light coin i was like, light coin you mean bitcoin no, light coin >> i hope you said yes >> then i get a text message saying it was up 200%. i said don't get it. i'm like if i don't understand it, i'm not buying it. that would have been a nice run for her. >> there was a kid in town who traded his bitcoin for a tesla >> seriously >> yeah. apple is one of the most-loved

stocks, moving on. but not for hedge fund titan stan druckenmiller here is why. what about apple in that case? >> apple i don't find near as exciting as amazon, facebook, or google it's a hardware company. i understand they have an appellate form, but -- >> do you consider them great products >> i do think they're great. i don't see the underearning i see in other companies they're probably overearning in terms of the margin. >> all right this of course is a follow on he had talked about tesla earlier, said great product, doesn't own it apple wouldn't -- i mean, he would kind of say that but he said samsung good too >> by the standards he set down, are these companies underearning or not if you argue these huge platform

companies basically can flip the switch and start to earn more money right now whereas apple already has massively high margins. they're hit driven every three or four years they have to prove pit. that being said, it's a much cheaper stock. >> how do you feel about apple >> i'm big on brands personally i own apple our clients at luk capital definitely own apple that doesn't mean they don't also hold amazon and facebook and the other names. until amazon gets someone that can actually compete with them, the buzz, the products, and how they stand behind their products, i don't see them ever going away i think as you continue to move and you get kind of generationally this switch in management and whatnot, you'll start to see other products continuing to come out of apple. i think it's a name as he said he's not shorting it i think you have to hold that name in your portfolio >> nancy, what about you final word >> yeah. we still like it we've been selling it all year due to appreciation. but i heard the hardware argument at $89 a share. so that isn't what troubles me

we're in a big upgrade cycle and i think that's important for the near term. and then maybe this thing -- it'll continue to take a pause here and then we'll see another reignition of earnings growth. so we're still holders pretty big, yep. >> all right i'm still thinking about your mom asking about light coin, kourtney thank you both up next, more of that rare and exclusive interview with stanley druckenmiller. he's outraged over one part of the tax reform bill. you'll find out which part next. also a very bullish call on bitcoin. >> i think this thing is a hundred thousand dollars a coin probably in the next three to four years and i think it is in the next 20 years a million dollars a coin >> million bucks is bitcoin really on that path over the next couple of decades? we will debate that still to come on "the closing bell. well, it's earnings season

once again. >>yeah. lot of tech companies are reporting today. and, how's it looking? >>i don't know. there's so many opinions out there, it's hard to make sense of it all. well, victor, do you have something for him? >>check this out. td ameritrade aggregates thousands of earnings estimates into a single data point. that way you can keep your eyes on the big picture. >>huh. feel better? >>much better. yeah, me too. wow, you really did a number on this thing. >>sorry about that. that's alright. i got a box of 'em. thousands of opinions. one estimate. the earnings tool from td ameritrade.

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reported it features a 21% corporate tax rate also a top individual rate of 37%. it would raise the mortgage deduction to loans up to $750,000 here are druckenmiller's thoughts on the tax bill >> on your network the day after the election, i said i was very excite excited about the prospects for deregulation and tax reform. i was particularly excited about the house program, a better way. and i thought it was the first program i had seen in decades which would address our fundamental problem in the united states. which we overconsume and underinvest. literally all they had to do was sign it. but secretary mnuchin had other ideas. and to me it's just been a huge missed opportunity

>> do you like -- do you think the current tax reform plan is sound? >> no. having said that, there are some things that are helpful in it that go a little bit of the way a better way went. first of all, there's expensing. that's obviously pro-investment. like the better way but again very muted and carved out for some of their buddies there's interest deductibility because i think we got too much debt in this country and we don't have enough equity. and the final thing is you've really, really broadened the tax base so a lot of individuals are getting tax cuts. >> do you get a tax cut under the plan >> no. i'll get a 600 base point increase >> does the state tax repeal help you

>> is that going to be repealed? >> or raising the ceiling. maybe that won't be too much >> i'm hoping to end up pretty near zero. >> your personal holdings? >> so i don't really look at the estate tax i don't like the repeal of the estate tax i do like this idea of $10 million or $15 million so somebody's nest egg but repealing $300 million, i don't get it the other thing i should have mentioned is moving the tax system to territorial base not as good as the border adjustment tax. >> you wanted the border adjustment tax >> i was wildly in favor of the border adjustment tax. to me, again, it was a very elegant solution to the problem we were overconsuming and und underinvesting unfortunately mr. mnuchin and all their lobbying buddies from retail companies which probably are not going to be in business

in 10 or 15 years succeeded in killing the thing. it's pretty amazing that -- >> would it have hurt amazon, too, though, or no >> i don't really care if it would hurt amazon. i don't think of things in those terms. i don't care i think we need to tax -- that was sort of a drag which is kind of why it got killed but i really liked it. you know, it obviously got nixed early on by a brutal retail lobby. >> you think if the tax reform passes and we don't know the final final details yet, what difference will it take to the stock market and the economy right now? >> i don't think it's going to matter to the stock market i think the stock market is base chr chris -- basically offset by

central bank adjusting to that i would say on the economy, it should have very, very stimlative effect in '18 and a few years after that and longer term if anything it's a problem let me explain >> real quickly on '18, you think it'll be very stimlative is that because of the expensing? >> not only the expensing. ironically it is going to be more powerful than it appears if the tax cut is delayed a year because if you're a corporation you have a bigger expensing. so i think it supercharges capital spending and investment. my problem with this whole thing is -- and again the house plan

was tax reform it was not net net fiscal stimulus here we are eight or nine years into an economic expansion we're going to need ammunition desperately down the road and we're increasing the deficit depends on how you score by the end of obama. the two of them did their damage together it was 77. this thing takes it to 95. kelly, if you remember i spent two years of my life going around to colleges talking about entitlement reform >> which may be next they say they want to maybe do welfare reform next year >> i see a picture up there, maybe i could sell you the brooklyn bridge. i see it on that picture it would have been so elegant if they had used the fiscal stimulus in this on the corporate side and on the individual side and offset the trillion or trillion and a half

stimulus with entitlement reform we have 11,000 people a day turning 65 for the next 20 years. this is a ticking time bomb that has to be dealt with we're stealing from our future and we just aggravated the problem. and to me we could have used the stimulus and offset it with reform to medicare and social security and we whiffed >> last two questions then putting that aside or maybe that being part of it, has -- do you support the president more now than you did back on the campaign trail or, you know, in the past >> i never supported him on the campaign trail no i think the tax plan, it is what it is. there are some good things and there's some bad things. i didn't get in on all the bad things i am so offended by the carried interest provision >> the fact they're keeping it in place so people who -- >> well, it's outrageous we have doctors and lawyers in

blue states, tax rates going up dramatically, professionals. and you have these multi, multi-billionaires with carve outs let's be clear carried interest, you're making money on somebody else's capital. it's not on your own if that's not income, i don't know what is i want to repeat that. you're doing it on other people's capital first of all, the billionaires lobbying the congressmen for this ought to be ashamed of themselves because we're asking doctors and lawyers and other americans in blue states to take tax increases so we can fund this kind of nonsense as for the economic benefits, half the companies these guys buy, they then strip them and, you know, fire people. so the idea they're increasing employment is absurd and the politicians listening to them who claimed holier than thou and now we're going to get rid of loopholes, it's an outrage. >> again, that was our interview

this morning so we've got a few more details of the tax plan this afternoon nothing that would dramatically change his conclusions certainly did nothing with carried interest >> nothing with carried interest nothing in a way that changed fundamental incentives across the economy. really he's talking about this kind of tear it up, they're going to redirect capital flows. you know, we're going to consume -- all those things are massive projects i don't think there's any appetite to be honest with you in congress. not sure there's a lot of appetite in the public if you actually set it out that way maybe long-term, on paper it makes tremendous amount of sense. >> i thought maybe they should have actually just come out and said this. not just we want to do this border adjustment tax. just no, we think this country consumes too much. doesn't invest and save. >> it's a questionable proposition. just to get beyond everything. when you think about -- this is not a country you want to say it's going to be export led. >> germany >> you want people to save many

f more why? >> it's so they can look after their own financial well being, retirement, rely less on a lot of the entitlement problems he was talking about. >> right it's if we're starting from scratch kind of a proposition as far as i can tell. >> that's the problem. we never are anyway, it was always good to talk to stan druckenmiller catch much more on the website also the dow rallying 24% this year utngis fdge fund manager is shti hund after he calls unacceptable returns we'll have those details after this the moment a fish is pulled out from the water, it's a race against time. and keeping it in the right conditions is the best way to get that fish to your plate safely. bacteria can multiply to high enough levels

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time now for news updebt, let's get to sue herrera >> here's what's happening at this hour. united nations secretary general antonio guterres speaking a the paris climate summit he says advances in science and technology offer hope for the future >> we are in the war for the existence of life on our planet as we know it, but we have an important ally science and technology first because what is happening in exactly as science predicted. second, technological progress that responding to climate change is a threat to the economy. jimmy kimmel held his baby son as he returned to his late night show after a week off for the boy's heart surgery. he was emotional as he pleaded with congress to restore and

improve children's health care coverage a secret santa paid off $49,000 of layaway items at the walmart in new jersey. the benefactor wants to remain anonymous. it wasn't the only good deed this week. a secret santa paid off $40,000 in walmart items in pennsylvania a little bit of holiday cheer there. you're up to date. back to you, kelly >> thank you very much here's a look at how we finished on wall street. it was did very different dep d depending where you looked the s&p 500 up four. the nasdaq down 12 russell down nearly four points today. let's get to other stories in our rapid recap. >> i think the tools that have been created today are starting to erode the social fabric of how society works. you can use money to amplify whatever you believe and get

people to believe that what is popular is now truthful and what is not popular may not be truthful >> fox and disney are on a, quote, glide path for an announcement of a transaction for thursday >> bob iger is doing what you need to do when people don't think that your company has a vision he's given you a vision and he's giving you a narrative and therefore i've always said bank with him >> this is a substantial vote of confidence from pepsi that when those trucks come, it wants 100 of those tesla electric semitrucks >> put out a cryptocurrency warning saying if an opportunity seems too good to be true, exercise extreme caution >> alabama holding a special election today to hold the senate seat left open by jeff sessions. >> roy moore demonstrated his extremely old school brand of conservatism by riding his horse to his polling place in a rural area northeast of birmingham

>> mike, i thought the comments were pretty interesting. here's a guy you think would be an evangelist for silicon valley and social media and he was the facebook guy. right. but no and shawn parker, we had sort of this similar interesting mea culpa awhile back. >> it's like what did we make here obviously i think it's really the inference. in that it has created a life of its own. and therefore eyeball hours are kind of almost in an addictive way drawn in that direction. so i don't know what the -- you know, what the solution is, necessarily. >> i think it only -- literally it gets to the point where a quarterly comes out and suddenly facebook's active or monthly daily users don't look like they're growing. >> well, if that were to happen organically, that'd be fine. but will they be under pressure

to try to change this reaction loop they have and how they engage look, there have been panics before about too much television >> video games, yes. >> comic books for that matter even better. so, you know, you have to be a little bit cautious. another hedge fund is shuttering and returning capital to investors this time it's john burbank's capital. winning bets against subprime housing. burbank cited persistent losses in the passport global fund and wrote in a letter to investors despite a track record that i'm very proud of, the returns over the past two years are unacceptable now, burbank is rethinking what he's investing in. but here's the kicker. >> if you have a high

psychological water mark in order to get back to what is to be even and prove yourself, it's hard to find a market that's moving fast enough that seems inefficient enough, i guess, besides cryptocurrencies i'm not saying that. >> to understand the dislocations in society that were happening during the financial crisis to almost want to participate in a dislocation now. >> well, is it a dislocation or is he just able to see distortions and large trending moves that are going to keep going for a very long time and maybe can get more kind of a snowball effect happening? >> that's true >> one on the downside, one of the upside >> it is interesting when you put it that way. >> statements about why he was closing the main fund i think echo what every macro investor is saying. >> he said he was joking, okay, if you only had to get out of bed to make 20%. i got out on the wrong side of the bed. we have an earnings alert on verifone let's get to courtney reagan with those results

>> verifone's earnings beating with 44 cents adjusted compared to analyst expectations at 43 cents. however, when you look at their guidance for both the first quarter and fiscal 2018 for earnings and revenue, that disappointed compared to what the street was expecting so you see shares down more than 6% here in the after-hours and also just an interesting note yesterday verifone sold its taxi business for $30 million in cash they're going to use that plus extra cash to complete a stock buyback program and also authorizing an additional $100 million in stock repurchase program. kelly, back over to you. >> all right interesting shift in capital allocati allocation shares there down 6% thank you. bitcoin has had an amazing run this year. chamal said it's heading to a million bucks over the next 20 years per coin and also druckenmiller will give

us his thoughts on powell still to come on "the closing bell."

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quote now. there you've got some for bitcoin. even ether here's what chamath palihapitiya had to say about bitcoin when he was on "squawk box." >> the same way i said in 2013 put 1% of your net worth in bitcoin. today i think this thing is a $100,000 a coin probably in the next three to four years and in the next 20 years, $1 million a coin >> a million bucks a bitcoin joining us no nick spanos who is cofounder of snap.org. welcome to you both. nick, i'll begin with you because you're our bull here i mean, are you as bullish to say it's going to a million dollars a bitcoin? >> sure, yeah. i mean, there are only 21 million bitcoin and the whole economy is going to be -- most of the economy is going to be using bitcoin's block chain. right?

block chain, bitcoin is a reward system to hold up this blockchain you know, it clears trades in a few moments compared to three days smart contracts are going to run the economic world pretty soon we're going to be headed to the jetsons any moment. >> what do you have to say in response to is that? >> well, i don't know why he didn't say it was worth $10 million or infinity. it's hard to speculate that far into the future. i think there are a lot of challenges along the way there are rules, regulations the s.e.c. was out today the irs has been out earlier that may present some challenges to the unbridled growth. also i'd separate the technology from the use of the technology technology is actually pretty interesting. very cool. a lot of the things nick said, definitely agree with. the use of medium of exchange has other issues associated with it that separation is an important

one. >> nick, maybe you can try to bridge the connection between bitcoin and the technology you know, as he's talking about here bitcoin is obviously the reward system for maintaining this technology which is going to have widespread -- in other words is the currency in the adoption of the technology running hand in hand or is the price running ahead of it >> well, the consensus model of bitcoin works out than any other blockchain you can't just throw it on your key and think it's secure. all these people, miners wanting the bitcoin create an immutable data base. hundreds of millions of dollars to try to attempt to change far few moments then would go back to the original blockchain that's where the value of bitcoin is

it's like having a ferrari and you rip out the engine and stick a gopher on a wheel in there the blockchain -- bitcoin is a reward system for the miners to hold up the blockchain >> chris, go ahead what were you going to say >> i was going to say it sounds like something funny happened along the way to the forum the idea things will continue on a straight path is very war in new technologies there's often bumps in the road. i think nick brought up a good thing about the technology it's easy to do. it's a good point about security i think according to to some data bases, there's close to 2500 coin offerings out there. while bitcoin has a bit of a first mover advantage, the reality is there's a lot of other competitors out there as well so the technology like i said earlier i think is the important key. it's just not clear kind of where the winners lie over a 20-year horizon. >> bitcoin is so yet it's all about litecoin now.

>> the reality is bitcoin is the golden goose of the cryptocurrencies because if you own bitcoin, every time it forks you get a new money out of nowhere pretty much. because, you know, they reward the participants everyone -- the participants that already own the bitcoin will get the new bitcoin cash or get new bitcoin gold that's why i don't think, you know, the chicago amerimercantie exchange, they pay out in dollars, no one wants the dollars. because the dollars aren't going to give birth to new cryptocurrencies >> i don't know. the people who are downloading the coinbase app and are staring at what they're worth in dollars, they care about the dollars. >> oh, yeah. they care about the value of pit. but the dollar is not going to give birth to another cryptocurrency every time we fork, there's another cryptocurrency there that ads owner of bitcoin you gt

a new cryptocurrency out of the blue so people are missing the point. there's only 21 million bitcoin that will be released from the blockcha blockchain bitcoin is more of a declaration of the people's monetary independence we control the money pier to pier no banks, no governments i mean, banks -- you know, they're going to be, you know, like a blockbuster video pretty soon i mean, people are going to laugh but i was there in the past when the internet took over i knew all the businesses that were going to disappear. and same with banks. >> we got to go, but chris, quick last word in response to that >> banks will be around a long time fiberoptics were supposed to be everywhere in the '90s, they're not. the reality is rules and regulations may be part of what we have to assess before these things become viable investments. last piece, once they get the rules and the regulations in

place, bitcoin may be a security, not a currency that's an important distinction because the rules are different. >> you can't outlaw prime numbers. right? bitcoin's about math >> true. >> all right, gentlemen. thank you. nick spanos, chris wolfe joining us to debate bitcoin which that debate will continue two of the world's biggest mall operators merging whether there is more consolidation ahead. then on "fast money," the man who called bitcoin 10k and 40k will make another big call mike novogratz joins the gang at 5:00

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westfield, australian operator of malls across the u.s., is being taken over by a european company courtney reagan has more >> reporter: hi, kelly

it's not often we've seen mall operators combined recently, that could be changing westfield is being bought for $15.7 billion in a cash and stock deal the new combined company will have more than a hundred locations across the u.s., uk, and europe, representing 1.2 billion visits annually. it should pass regulatory reviews because there are no overlaps in the properties each has. half of the malls are considered flagship properties including the one in los angeles, considered an "a" plus property, and the world trade center that opened last year westfield's tenants have substantial food presence and many at century city serve food. high end brands and

experience-based shoppers. as some malls close in the united states, the best properties become more valuable. no one really thinks all stores will disappear, but in the age of amazon, only the strongest will survive, which means they'll find strength in consolidation. this isn't the last deal in this space. i think there's going to be more talks like this that come forward in the coming years, kelly. >> courtney, thank you i was going to say, mike, maybe this -- i mean, it's interesting, so the buyer of westfield was down in the session, there are some concerns over the price they're paying. yes, i'm sure the valuations have come down relative to ten years ago. given the way things are headed, is it possible they could get them cheaper >> potentially i think they vary company by company. the story line for a long time, a lot of b&c malls don't have a great future >> westfield was different

>> yes it's not quantity over quality this seems like it's at that part of the market but still seems like -- >> i walked through that eataly and oculus >> relative unique property. >> that too, and i give them credit, it's not cookie cutter and there's a lot of food offerings. president trump picked jay powell to run the fed after janet yellen steps down. we'll hear more about stan druckenmiller and what powell will mean for fed policy, after this hey! yeah!? i switched to geico and got more! more savings on car insurance!? they helped with homeowners, too! ok! plus motorcycle, boat and rv insurance! geico's got you covered!

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earlier i sat down with duquesne family office ceo stanley druckenmiller to get his thoughts on many topics including new incoming fed share jay powell >> i don't know about powell warsh would have been a great fed chair of this they need to use common sense instead of models with rules and all this stuff. i have an kevin would have been incredible i don't know jay powell. maybe he'll be incredible. i don't know the man >> so he's keeping an open mind.

>> yes >> because he has been so critical of fed and central bank policy, saying they need to normalize much more quickly. >> sure. the change in the chair is obviously an opportunity to sort of modulate exactly how much you emphasize certain models or certain targets. it's probably going to happen. it's worth noting that janet yellen keeps saying, maybe there isn't a cyclical element entirely about this sort of thing. therefore we might as well normalize. >> what is the market pricing in right now for next year? >> i believe it comes down to one in march, almost certainly, then maybe one more. >> that's it >> at this point the market is still not buying into the three next year theory >> i hear people on the street saying five. >> right at this point who knows what they're going to say tomorrow in terms of the official expectation for 2018 i still think you have this standoff with the markets. the markets have won each of these bets >> it's true, every time, the famous one was fisher, they said they would do four and they did two or one or whatever

if she's right on her view and they see this tax plan falling into place, will they be much more aggressive than everybody thinks right now >> yes even if you think the traditional model works, you're starting to see leading indicators of inflation happen >> the cpi would be the most interesting thing tomorrow >> yes >> mike, thank you we'll see you tomorrow that does it for "closing bell." "fast money" starts right now. live from the nasdaq market site overlooking new york city's times square i'm melissa lee. tonight on "fast," the crypto trade is on fire or, as the kids say, lit it's not just bitcoin, litecoin, and ethereum going parabolic we have every angle covered. it is bitcoin week here on "fast money. the biggest crypto ballers will join