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tv   Fast Money  CNBC  May 25, 2018 5:00pm-5:30pm EDT

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money. >> 294, february 21st. now we're at 293 >> we punched above 3% >> a good time for me to go play golf in scotland i'm going to scotland next week to play a little golf. >> are you not going to be here for example friday >> no. >> doesn't trump have a course in scotland? first the russia coup. >> connect the dots. >> have a great weekend. have a great memorial day. that does it for us. "fast money" starts right now. right now live from the nasdaq market site overlooking new york city's time square, i'm melissa lee. your tradesers on the desk tonight on "fast money" bitcoin singing the blues, down 20% from its recent high on its longest losing streak since september. but blockchain capital spencer bogart citizen the crypto world is photoing the wrong coin later they say diamonds are a girl's -- i mean trader's best friend tiffany's posting its best week ever, up 25% so how much higher can it go the traders have got some ideas.
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but first we start off with the crude crush. oil seeing its worst day in nearly a year, sending energy stocks down with it. this after a saudi oil minister suggested they may pump more oil. so is today's decline a supply issue, or is the price action in oil sending a warning sign for the rest of the market maybe a statement on global growth, guys. >> a lot to sort -- >> unpack. >> unpack there. >> yes, tackle on a friday before a long weekend. >> that's what i'm here for. >> i am a conspiracy theorist, but president trump recently has been in the news getting in trouble because a lot of people blaming him for the rise in crude prices gasoline in new york city five bucks. on a friday before memorial day, we hear from the saudis about them increasing supply sounds a little fishy. i would say they backtrack next week in terms of what it could do to the broader market, we've said energy is too small to help the market go higher then it stands to reason that it's too small to make it go lower. >> but her question is oil lower
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more of a symbol of -- >> no. >> demand global -- you know -- >> no. >> good. what i think is i tend to agree with mr. few dayzy i think this was a comment that was possibly taken out of context, possibly totally misinterpreted bottom line is they've got a meeting on the 22nd of june. nothing's going to change. watch the forward curve in -- >> in venezuela all the barrels being taken off the market >> you're at 150% compliance let's get back to 100% compliance and start to worry about it it's not as if people are not abiding by rules i think there's actually as much unity within opec and non-opec as we've had possibly forever. >> i don't know. the saudis a couple months ago when you had brent at $65, you they telegraphed the fact that when brent got to $80, they were going to start bringing it back online from my perspective, not that it was super telegraphed, but it was talked about it was very clear by them. i do look at this as a supply issue. this is absolutely not a demand issue. i think it's short-lived
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on the equity side, we had absolutely zero interest in this, and i say it's crazy selling, buying, anything. it was the worst -- think about this it was the worst commission pad on our entire desk today when news came out like this. >> i hear goldman killed it. >> here's the thing. you may want to go back to look at 2014 and what happened there. that was the year that qe ended. it was also the last time that the ten-year treasury yield traded 3%, briefly, and we were just briefly above it for about a week and a half. but one thing that started to happen in 2014, the dollar started to rally it had a 15% rally from its lows to its highs crude oil got cut in half. i think that's a really important half i know we've been talking about the dollar index it's up 7% off the recent lows i know you think there's a lot of resistance here at 95 or whatever, but who kind of knows, you know i think it's really important to keep track of that because that was something that was a major
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determinant when oil got crushed. it literally lost 50% of its value. >> as i mentioned on power lunch today, i actually think as much as i believe that dollar fundamentals tell me that in other words the u.s. economy and the european economy, if you look the at the dxi, it's mostly akrocross on the dollar/euro it doesn't mean the currencies aren't going to reflect a lot of uncertainty on the politics. actually i think what's going on in italy doesn't go away quietly right now. i don't think they're going to default on debt but i think you could see the dollar go higher your point is oil along with total discord within opec and total oversupply from the u.s., which was crushing the market, overtraded to the down side. and after a big run, do you think energy is going to reverse on a dime and go back higher after today? no but, again, look at the curve on oil, and i think this supply discipline is very much a different story. >> we are learning moody's as has put the government of italy's ratings on review for a
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possible down grade. let's get back to energy stocks here, guy. do you just trade through this >> i think you do. but quickly, just to play devil's advocate here with myself, i guess. but you look at the xle, traded up to $79 or so at end of november, early december traded off in a significant way. we've recently pushed toup to tt level. so the xle in dan nathan's world, you could make an argument we have this mini double top i think this is a friday phenomenon not as much selling as lack of buyers, pushing away allowed the market to go lower i'm not that concerned yet let's put it that way. >> tim, we saw chesapeake, which was one of the stocks your stock draft. >> dan loves to talk about the stock draft. >> at one point down 10% today >> i'm still in first place because of chesapeake. energy stocks had a terrible day today and everyone wants to make a big point about it but where have you been for the last nine months to 12 months?
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there's no question a lot of these things were overbought there's no question that the high beta names like emp or nat gas play is going to overreact on a day like today. think about those as possible opportunities once the dust settles because i actually think that's what today was. >> that's a good point when the dust does settle because these things tend to overshoot to the upside and they will overshoot to the down side. we could see a couple days of some weakness. >> energy stocks having their worst day in nearly four months. there could be more pain ahead carter braxton worth to break it all down hi, carter >> hi there. i'm going to talk quite a bit about what guy was talking about and the authority of the 79 level and how we've approached it repeatedly. let's go back to sort of where it got interesting we know we had something of a head and shoulders bottom. and, remember, this is december of a year ago. this is december of the 2017 period what of course energy stocks did was get right to that high and back away.
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now let's play the movie a little bit further they come back here again. this is the level that guy's talking about. and then they back away yet again. but the issue is this. is this back-away this time going to go all the way down again? i would say no, meaning you're likely to each time have a little bit shallower move. so this time you fail at the prior high, and you give back, but you don't make a new low this time you fail at the prior high, and you give back, but you don't make -- the presumption is that prude is going to basically sit here for quite some time, but not revisit those lows ultimately energy and crude oil both go higher this is the xle of course. leading up to this, we had circumstances happen only one other time in the history of the data going back to 1980. both the ten-year yield and crude oil have gone more than 160 days without coming back to their afternoon simultaneously that was march to october of 1999 that's exactly what happened leading up to this big give back
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in yields and crude oil. >> come on over, carter. >> you didn't even put it up to a vote >> why should i? i'm in charge. thanks for bringing the chair in all right. carter -- >> summery look today by the way. >> wearing seersucker by the way. >> so the chart at the xle, do the charts of other etfs that may not be as heavily integrated, do they look the same >> remember, drillers have lagged and then drillers play catchup. you have certainly bombed out names whose entire future is still in question. properties that just aren't worth really long term look, but the authority of the level is so important. was it a dcf thing that made energy stop there? no was it an enterprise value no it's largely technicals. machines look at levels. you backed away. but the back-away is not likely to carry that much further we've given back five, six bucks
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on crude energy has given back a third of the move i would say it probably stops here sometimes things are just fair price. i would say energy stocks probably muddle for weeks and weeks and weeks. >> i would ask you because mel asked me and apparently i didn't answer correctly because tim jumped on me does this auger poorly if crude continues to go lower for the broader market >> again, i don't think that has so much -- the dream has been two things that you want to be in industrials, and you want to be in financials. and that energy is getting better rates are going higher synchronized global growth, tax cuts the reality is none of that is really -- financial is underperforming and energy has had a great run, but it's due to rest >> carter, good to see you thank you. carter braxton worth we'll see carter by the way in just a bit on -- >> for what? >> on away quickly what to do today, tim? >> i think banks are worth sniffing around. i nibbles on some citi i don't think banks were rewarded when the yield spiked
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up are we in a deflationary environment suddenly i don't think so i think waits are going on >> coming up, blockchain capital's spencer bogart says there's something the crypto world is missing about this selloff. plus disney's solo story premiering today and one of the traders says the new installment could give the stock the force it needs to get back its mojo. we are live at the nasdaq market site in "times" square much more "fast money" still ahead. let's get started. show of hands. who wants customizable options chains? ones that make it fast and easy to analyze and take action? how about some of the lowest options fees?
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what's in your wallet?
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welcome back to "fast money. the bitcoin blues continue bitcoin getting wrecked, falling bell below 8,000. but our next guest says traders are selling the wrong coins. let's bring in spencer bogart, a blockchain capital partner great to have you with us. >> thanks so much for having me. >> so the one coin, the one coin out there you say is still a buy, is bitcoin. why? and let me ask you this too because obviously you're speaking your book so to speak is there any situation in which you would tell us that bitcoin
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is not a buy >> there you go. >> i think it's mostly going to be a few years out listen, if the story erodes and it's not there, then i'm not going to be bullish on bitcoin, right? but the long-term thesis is very much intact. i mean as for what's going to happen over the next couple of days, i don't know but when i look out over the next year, two years, i mean the story is very much materializing, right so the institutionalization of bitcoin is absolutely occurring. that was very evident, i think, to anybody that was circulating around blockchain week in new york every major bank is trying to do something in the space either they're going to be offering bitcoin to their clients. they're working on a custody platform, or they're opening up a trading desk so that's absolutely taking place. and on the other side, again, there's countri currency crises happening around the world next year there's going to be more currency crises there's a few this year, and that continues >> if you're optimistic about the use cases and you cite these major banks building things on various platforms, i mean those
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platforms are ripple, they're stellar. those are in your hold categories amongst the crypto. longer term do you like these coins? it seems like your most bullish use cases for these particular platforms -- >> so i don't think necessarily any of the things that banks are doing are necessarily built on top of those platforms i think largely it will be offering some of those crypto assets to their clients. i think longer term again i would put most of the coins that are probably in the like number two to number seven range just as a neutral, just saying, that, hey, listen, these could be going up significantly, but they also have significant headwind especially something like ethere ethereum, which i'm constructive on on a long-term basis but it has a lot of overhang. a lot of these icos have been built on top of ethereum i think a lot of those tokens are overvalued and eth itself is used essentially as fuel to invest into these icos.
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i think that will present some headwinds to something like ethereum >> i've heard a couple times this year or actually on many occasions this year that if you've been in bitcoin for years, okay, at least five or six years, you've seen 50%, 60% selloffs fairly routinely, at least once a year. is it different this time because the market cap is so much greater and there's so many more eyeballs on it? >> that's a great question i'll tell you what's very different this time. in the past years when we've had these kind of draw downs and i've talked to people within the industry, media, everyone has kind of had this question of is this the end of bitcoin? and this is the first downturn where when i've tried to expla into people, hey, listen, bitcoin is not going away. it was the first time everybody's response was, no, of course we know that we know bitcoin's not going away to me, that's a huge change. >> spencer, i bet if you took the top ten coins, you'd probably look out over the last month and have them all be down within, you know, plus or minus 5% of each other i think the whole asset class is trading together what's the argument here that
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relative value really works? i'm not sure it does >> i won't be the one that's going to make an argument that relative valuation makes sense in a giant bull market that was what got us into a lot of trouble in the dot-com boom i think even bitcoin could face some headwinds here. my horizon here, i'm talking about things -- my minimum horizon is at least a year, right? could bitcoin trade lower? certainly. do i think it will be higher's year from now? absolutely >> dan mentioned perhaps this time will be different i'm always leery about saying that about anything. this time we do have futures it does seem to coincide with that top in bitcoin that we saw in december. do you think that is playing a role in bitcoin not bouncing back as sharply as it may have had in the past, or do you think that sharp bounce back is still to come even with a deeper market because of the futures markets? >> i don't know about a sharp
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bounceback, but i do think it will materialize, and i do think the futures markets and having deeper institutionalization of bitcoin is overall positive. but, listen, again i think going back to our dot-com analogy again, you had a lot of people betting the farm on what is the next big dot-com and i think we've seen a lot of people doing the same thing with a lot of these tokens and these icos that's a dangerous game. please don't do that most of them are overpromising and underdelivering. meanwhile, you have a few that are still kind of excelling at their use cases, bitcoin being one of them. >> so what's your target now, spencer? >> honestly i don't publish price targets anymore. listen, i would bet that bitcoin at least ends above 10k in the year >> all right spencer, thank you spencer bogart, always good to speak with him >> thanks so much. >> dan -- >> you totally bogarted that interview. i'll tell you that right now >> you know what that means? >> no, i don't >> it means you stole it, took the whole thing all for yourself >> there is always a comparison to the internet boom and bust.
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is bitcoin yahoo, or is bitcoin google >> i don't think so. when you think about bitcoin and the use cases, it's got the biggest network effect think of this as the lightning network that's being built out that's to speed up the transactions that's to make them cheaper, that sort of thing to me, i think it is very different. you know, i'll just make the case here with bitcoin, you know, this week alone we've seen coin-based, arty announced all these institutional custodian products and all of that when the institutions get more clarity on framework, i think the infrastructure is going to be there that goes back to your questions about futures. that's been dampening. it's probably not a bad thing that bitcoin is not back above $15,000 or something like that i think once the demand comes back, there's going to be infrastructure, and then if there's clarity around regulation, that could set up the next -- i. >> agree with that he mentioned ether he claims that a lot of those tokens are overvalued. i think the regulation has
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pushed those coins to a limit lower where they shouldn't be traded, could be undervalued in my opinion in a lot of cases the ones that are actually consumer utility toke nsz. i think there's a lot of them on the ethereum platform. i would be buying ethereum here if i had to make a bet. still ahead, bonds suddenly surging. seeing the best week in more than a year. one of the traders says it could cause a world of pain for one key group of stocks. we've got the details. i'm melissa lee. you're watching "fast money" on cnbc, first in business worldwide. in the meantime, here's what else is coming up on "fast." the rich are getting richer. >> and she stepped on the ball >> and that's helping a number of high-end retailers. we'll give you the names that traders see going even higher. plus how would you like to make money if disney shares go up, down, or nowhere at all? >> that's impossible >> no, luke, it's actually a simple trade and we'll teacyou h how to do it when "fast money" returns.
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where big tech meets the street >> investors clearly want a piece of the action. >> large cap tech stocks still doing really well this year. welcome back to "fast money. investors seeking some retail therapy this week as a number of names in the group soared on the back of earnings check out tiffany's, ralph lauren, foot lodcker and lowes we thought now would be the perfect time to play a little trade it or fade it. >> i love this game. >> let's kick things off with tiffany's, up 25% this week. trade it or fade it? >> i'd trade that one. those u.s. same-store sales, most people think of this as -- valuation, not great but i tell you what. they beat and they raised and i think there's a lot more to go >> that would be my one concern, almost now close to 27 times earnings that gives me a little bit of
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pause. but they're killing it right now, tiffany's blue box, just saying. >> seeburg gets foot locker. trade it or fade it. >> i'm fading it here. i think foot locker had a substantial move t. was up 20% off these earnings they had a great quarter absolute improvement, and that's hands down however, this has been a value story. there's a ton of value investors in this name right now they're going to exit. this is the time when they take their foot off the accelerator or peel out of this name i think there could be a bit of a near term pullback >> he said take the foot off the accelerator. then he realized he was talking about foot locker, which is why he said peeled off he tried to make it smooth, but it didn't get past g. swizzle. great job by karen finerman. >> those comments would have been great if he was talking about gm or ford but had nothing to do with foot locker >> can we have a comment about the stock itself >> bottom line is if you think about what's going on at foot locker, it's the same thing that's happened with multiple
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retail names where they were left for dead. how many stories like best buy, like macy's where suddenly these guys were out of business. >> i don't understand why you go to foot locker why don't you go to nike or reboch or where snfr. >> i want to try on those fresh new sleds. >> i think what she's saying is she'd rather own brands than aggregators. >> i get that but what's macy's? my s >> just because the stock goes one way doesn't mean the business has fundamentally changed. >> this is about trading the stock, though. >> all right next up, lowe's. trade it or fade it, dan. >> i think you fade it on tuesday's show right before the earnings, you know, they had that announcement about a new ceo. the stopgap gapped up massively closed at 90, gave it all back i think i was on the program and said, i'm really not going to see this stock above 95, which was its last earnings gap. to me, i wouldn't chase it right
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here investors got really turned around in this story i think you want this thing to digest a little bit. >> ralph lauren is the next stock. guy is the next contestant >> trade it for the same reasons tim mentioned. better valuations than ralph lauren the inventory was $760 million that is down 3.8% year-over-year what does that mean, guy i'm glad you asked, mel. it means margins are going to be better next quarter. trade ralph lauren >> as you all know out there, it is memorial day weekend, the unofficial start of summer in lieu of the final trade, the traders have picked four stocks they say are the perfect sumler sizzlers to kick off the long weekend. tim, what's your pick? >> is it safe to wear seersucker yet? >> tuesday i expect to see you. >> i'll be in. ibb. i think biotech has traded sideways for too long. they're going to sizzle. >> i like dhi. this is a name you want to buy these home builders have been left for dead since rates were on the rise. >> dan, you're sizzling. >> listen, guys, bud red white and blue in a can.
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this is the one. it's down 25%. >> trades cheap. >> shake shack remember why memorial is named that >> yes >> happy memorial day. don't go anywhere. options action is back right after this
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we're live at the nasdaq market site on this friday before memorial day weekend, the guys getting ready behind me while they're doing that, here's what's coming up on the show >> honestly, we're out of gas. >> that's what carter worth says is going to happen with one of the auto stocks. he'll tell you which one and how to cash in plus talk about a shocker. bonds are suddenly surging and it could spell trouble for one sector dan nathan will tell you how to profit and -- >> the force will be with you. >> you may not need the force to make money on disney because mike's got a way to profit

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