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tv   Fast Money  CNBC  October 12, 2018 5:00pm-5:30pm EDT

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earnings, the overall tone if you see the long end spikes for any reason, if it spikes the market has problem zblas the yields backed off from the highs. >> and the levels on the 30 year. >> over the course of the week, that's right that does it for "closing bell" this week. >> "fast money" begins right now. have a great weekend, everyone "fast money" starts right now. live from the nasdaq market site overlook new york's time questionnaire i'm scott woman ner traders on the derrick tim seymour, darter werth karen finerman and guy adami tonight on fast netflix make a comeback after getting crushed the chart master says don't trust the bounce he is telling us exact why plus, something happened on jp morgan earnings call that has karen finerman questioning everything she will tell you what it is and just how worried to be but first we start with the rally and it was a hard fought one at that. the dow rallying 400 points at the open before turning negative and then it was up and down throughout the amp before stocks
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took off into the close ending higher by just about 300 points. that move kapping off what was a wild week for the market the dow starting off slow, then the big reversal midday tuesday. but we only ended down 50 points heavy selling into wednesday and thursday now here we are. higher yet again by o but even with today's move, it was still the worst week since march 23rd. >> raw hide, guy. >> not raw hide. >> it's a clint eastwood >> good bad ugly jose wale zbloochlt i think the market heads lower today when the market went negative after opening up 40 oh points i thought it was continuing if you are bullish you take a lot away from the fact it. >> it's a good sign. >> fought back closed at 200-day moving average giving the bulls ammunition into next week. i say this there have been countless times
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the last couple years where i thought here it is the market craters only for the market to stave off defeat and act o add victory and build. maybe we're at that point. i think it's different the fundamentals suggest there is more pain ahead. >> so -- so there should be reason to be nervous and although you think the market was constructive today, i think the reason the day was positive is positive it's also negative we got a the university of michigan survey out today. backward looking, it hadn't fed into that data over the last three days from the stock market but it showed investors are at confident as in january. a blow off top if you think about the velocity and the speed, the s&p closed in a nine-day rsi of 9.7. it's the lowest on the s&p since 2001 i'm talking about not the financial crisis it sells you how overbought we were and how violent this was. i think people are still complacent frankly. >> that's the risk, right. being up today is that bullish,
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giving the bulls hope? it's the worse that could have happened np what we want is a another 3, 4% down then you can have the cath art arsis. and people are like i didn't act. >> we did -- we did have a 400 point reversal today but you're talking. >> dropping 5%. >> there have been 300 five% plus corrections back to 1927 used to happen all the time. this is nothing. we want it to go down. >> okay. it did go down is what i'm saying the market opened strong i hate a big giant open where it just is levitating and then it really gained steam on the downside. and that was a 400 plus point reversal to me the bullish part -- not where we opened is it's the rallying off the bottom. >> why is that complacency. >> maybe that's a sign people got too negative too fast. >> look, you can't deny the price action indicates this was violent. but the same people who are complacent are saying hey, the
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machines are at it again i'm not doing anything this time i've been fooled before, not again. i think that people look at moves like this very different than they did three years ago and believe they're not in any way fundamentally based. i think the technical, the algos, the people we love to hate are chasing headlines but they're chasing fundamentals that are changing in the market. let's be here. i mean if things were that positive out there, whether it's the multiple, the stocks are trading at in a fourth quarter where we get downward guidance whether there are trade issues that haven't hit the macro data, whether the fed at war or at least doing what it has to do. so i just. >> how much further do you think we have to go down. >> i'll leave that to carter what i think, though, is we have to wait until we get some look into what 10% goes to 25% on tariffs, what automatically happens on mid-terms and what we hear from corporate. there is no reason going into
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third quarter numbers where guidance is of course what we all -- we have gotten some commentary from corporate america that should make people nervous, right whether ppg or fluor fasten al, fedex action micron, the list is getting longer. >> there have been three reasons to remain bullish. the fourth one is we closed at the 20 on day. but the fed could back away and take a dovish stand which in the short term wobblish longtime bearish. president trump and xi could have a an aaccord and that's bullish. and maybe erjs bail us out and you won't get the guidance you think. i'm with tim i think something fundamentally has change you are seeing inflation creeping its hid guidance is going to be week and i think the market heads down 7 or 8%. >> the cpi karen was cooler than expected it's not like every data point is rip roaring hot on the inflation front. i want not the case.
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now maybe part of what we saw is because powell the other day or whenever it was recently said we can go past neutral and everybody freaked out said my god the fed is raising rates come hell or high water regardless what you here from pepscy and ppgs and fedexs and everybody else that zblees a good point weren't we praying for heat on cpi and ppi a couple years ago there are people in the deflags camp that think this is what it is it's a credit bubble adding in the internet and other dynamics i just think that the rest of the world is telling us something. and i don't think we can just fly in the face of that number they're not rolling over hard. europe is growing 2% this year this is more about where expectations still need to be rebalanced what. >> the point gundlach made the other day was the notion -- if you want to use the word decouple from the weakness in asia, china over in europe, it's none sess sense it's catching up
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and come home to roost now you see the markets get upset here the way they have been overseas. >> if you are in a period where you think bad news is bad and good news is bad. then the market trades down. i look at things fundamentally i think the bar has been lowered with the correction the last few weeks. the economy, i think is still really strong. we'll see. i think also sentiment can change quickly it changed to the downside it can change to the upside. i think the fed should stay the course to reverse engineer this enormous experiment, which they've done i think quite successfully and not have any little, you know, bumps on the way out would be ridiculous to think they could do that. >> revisit what you said when we said oh tim will leave it up to you to see how much further we need to go carter. >> here is the thing. >> what's the real story. >> when volatility insiding like this it's not encouraging the sort of main street investor to plunge in. it makes people back away. you now have substantial losses
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bowing in the equity book and in the fixed income book. and that starts to also encourage money not to go after risk assets. then the 3% yield out of the 2-year note. none of that adds up to stocks off to the races downside, plenty perspectivively. up side limite >> the beginning of next woke will be a tell for you. >> as much as the imagination can allow. the thing about sentiment it can change quickly we only had two three days of downside we have had years and years of up sentiment you breaks break once in february rally back and break again that's distributive that's what tops look like. >> carter also thinks moves this week will look more like a bull trap than a breakthrough if you haven't figured that out go over to plays that, the telestrator and brake it down for us he is the chart master. >> so it's when there is a lot of bullishness and it's misplaced. it looks opt kple like this.
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here we have of course the market going into what was a record rsi reading never record the in the all world index and equally for the s&p 50 oh on a weekly basis then of course this epic plunge of two weeks friday the 26th of january to friday february 9th then we rally all the way back and this is the bull trap. let's take a look. move the lines forward consensus is you break out and that's exactly what happens. it breaks out. so is it a bull trap or a breakout the problem with this kind of thing is from chartists like myself to just the money flow to the algorithms seeing that move draws people in forces shorts to cover. and of course we know it turns out to be a horrendous time to have been bought once you take a hit like this you leave all this money trapped above. people who bought in the past, three to five months, who now
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are under water and would love in principle to get money back we basically closed the doors on something of a murder that took place. it's not good. here is another way to look at it this is the s&p equal weight this is the ke guy, we have talked about this the s&p equal weight was a perfect double top only the s&p itself with the amazon and apple that made it o higher we never broke out that's the ultimate trap. then of course broken down below this line. none of this is a particularly good setup here it is, here is the chart of the s&p. where could we go? well, you can go anywhere the imagination allows do we hold this support? no put in another line. where can we go? frankly, woefr been in this range we got a little bit above. injury there is every possibility we come back to the lows of february and that would simply be -- it
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sounds like a lot, 14% decline that is garden variety, run of the mill, dip sell i don't have correction pullback decline whatever you want to call it used to happen all the time in markets now it's verbetenen but it will be soon. >> come back over this. >> yes. >> i mean, he is definitely invited back not a question. >> are you telling us we're going down 14% more you are invited back we may kick you off the desk but you come back. >> the another 7% would be normal that's where we were in february is that bad? no, people say these are healthy corrections. >> no one suggesting that it is. i'm curious as to whether it's quote unquote justified or if the market and investors overreacted this week. >> i think it's a. >> 10 oh%. >> waste not justified about it in i think it's justified if you look at the preannouncement i want justified airlines have been rolling over for months autos rolling over housing has been rolling over for months semis. but so why isn't the broader market can't roll over on the
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back of knows. >> karen, you want to answer that. >> well, delta. >> he doesn't sound as negative as you guys that's why i ask her to respond. >> anything could happen of course could a it trade down another 7% absolutely but i think that the pullback that we have had has created a lot of opportunities and i will -- i will gaern --ly not pick the bottom for sure but there are some some things good to own. >> so carter gives the 14% level. the rest of the world has sold off more than that already you are in a place where the dahm is at least looking around the world -- chf had better numbers last night guess what probably front running on exports to get ahead of the 25% coming year end so i think guy is bringing up a point that look if you can kind plenty of reasons to -- if the tone of market was bearish the last nine months you could be very bearish now and scott you are right to say hold on a second people might have overreacted we have seen this before. i think it ultimately comes back to valuations. the fed has made it clear what
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they are doing despite what may be swirling around in terms of pressure they have to get to the neutral rate they're not there yet. and the bottom line su get multiple contraction when the fed is in play we got the sugar high fl from the tax cut on the price to sales basis it's expensive right now. >> coming up, semis as we just said getting smoked. the group on track for the worst month since 2012 one trader thinks it could get worse as well. he explains why. plus jp morgan failing to rally despite a strong earnings report what went wrong? karen finerman will tell us hero fast take. we are live from times square on this friday night in new york city and much more "fast money" right after this rchestrated a collaboration solution for us. using the lenovo x1 carbon. powered by intel core processor technology. now we can access our network and work together from anywhere. hey! hey everybody. you coming back for the team building? mobility by lenovo. no? it orchestration by cdw.
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>> and a triple. >> a wink martin dale. >> you wanted to point out what jamie dimon said about higher rates and the economy. >> i would also point out just about probabilities that rates can go high are. people should be prepared and not surprised. i'm surprised when people are surprised. asset and the why is more important. the kpee is strong preponderates are going up most of us consider it a healthy normalization. and going back to a more of a froh market when it comes to asset pricing and interest rates, et cetera we need that so to me overall is it's a good thing. >> all right karen. >> yes. >> the big take away was what. >> a couple of things. there was nothing to hate in the earnings call. the bar was low. i thought they jumped over the the bar perfectly well enough. yet the stock traded down which is disappointing but the thing actually interesting to me was that jamie dimon really stepped back a lot on the call. normally he is very, very involved in the calls.
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he knows the basis he can't help but jump in and make comments when people ask questions. did he by the way do a separate media call we could not hear but on this call really was mary anne lake running the show this is interesting to me because this is setting up the succession plan, i believe she will be. >> starting to set the table. >> well she has been a great cfo a long time. >> and time -- >> and time to run. >> that's a separate call. but i think she did a fantastic job as she always does that's what's happening here he is setting up mary anne lake to become his successor. i think she is incredibly qualified. but i also think this is just my own opinion that he would like to have a woman in that role so to me that was a very interesting take away from the call he is stepping back more and more from the calls and she is really handling them do a superb job. >> what he did say on the call is he talked about uncertainties from economic and geopolitical he is thinking about the impact of trafrs on the trade
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situationway we are in. >> i think jamie dimon has as much credibility in terms of paining a proper balanced picture of what's going on and said the economy is in good shape. that's why rates go higher let's be clear the trade in the banks to me is it usually takes about a week and it normalized environment that we have had the last five quarters, banks have rallied substantially, about a week after as we have gotten into the quarterly earnings report they lead off there is skepticism banks have record profits including jp morgan gichg capital back. the balance sheets look great even in a credit storm have they ever been better prepared and we are not in the credit storm. >> and when the 10-year, guy, i don't what he it finished at 3.16, 17 can go-like going down since it hit 3 if it 26 that doesn't help makes it harder to make the case to own the bank stocks. >> the but the klf topped out. and the banks can't get out of their own way. we can talk about the environment, steepening yield
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curve wsh narrowing, doesn't seem to matter the stocks don't go higher at what point do they go higher. autos are the same thing they've been worse but thaefr been in the best environment and can't go high are. bhe do the banks go up. >> i've been a goldman sachs bull but stock trades awful morgan stanley made a 52-woke low this woke. jp morgan best in breed. at what point in valuation. >> do you own jp morguen >> no. >> you wouldn't own. >> wu why do you like goldman. >> jp morgan trades 7.1 times price to bock. it's expensive deserves to be. >> not on a pe basis. >> we had great data where were the buyers. >> they should trade there. >> where were the buyers today in that's the bottom line they were trading free. >> what did you want like a. >> we have seen that in. >> we have seen that. >> every time the guys report. >> that's the problem. >> well, to me it comes down to as an investor, especially if i have a longer term horizon i
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feel very comfortable with that valuation. i feel very comfortable with the balance sheet. very comfortable with the management team. and frankly, i don't need it i'd love to see it be up 20% in the last year. but i'm not looking to sell a stock because it's -- it's underperformed in the market that's been moving higher. >> anything else you are comfortable with while you're at it. >> the shirt is comfortable. >> i was asking you about that. >> thank you for asking. >> you're welcome. >> i feel comfortable with myself. >> for more on what jamie dimon said head over to cnbc.com in the meantime here is what else is coming up on fast. >> announcer: that's what happened to semis this we can. and one trader thinks it's about il get worse he wl explain why. much more "fast money" right after this break hi i'm joan lunden.
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>> we're looking at a strong economy, strong fundamentals and adjusting the policy stance. wove been doing that gradually, increasing rates moving up, targeting 2 to 2.25
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i think neutral is the 3 to 3.25 after many years of accommodative policy because i supported because inflation sup at 2% it's time to readjust the policy stance at least to neutral. let's see how the economy is performing at that point and then we might have to do more after that >> well that was chicago fed president charles evans on squawk box this morning. defending the fed's rate hike path and earlier on the hochlt report i spoke with larry kudlow, the director of the national economic council here is what he had to say about the economy and the markets. >> we are in a hot economic boom no end in sight in my judgment the u.s. economy and the entrepreneurs and the blue collar workers are killing it. and therefore i think the stock market will get back on track. it's not way to forecast, but corrections come and go. >> so is it time for the fed to keep traumaticing along? or do the wild swings in the market say otherwise tim no end in sight is what mr. kudlow told me earlier today.
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>> there is a couple of things i want to i think state clearly. first of all in terms of the confidence numbers we got out today, the country has never been more confident in the policies of the government than they have in the last 15 years than they are right now. let's be clear it's actually a good time for that two, i actually think the fed does need to get to at least neutral. and then they need to figure out what's going on. but the bottom line is i don't think the fed is listening to the markets. i don't think anyone thinking the fed after a 7% straight down -- we talked about how severe -- the fed isn't making a comment. that's important to know that the fed put is over. >> the fed is going to watch the market may not be dictated by the market. >> they care about asset practices and wealth effect effect but i don't think they are going to be. >> totally agree you can't be a slave to the ups and downs of the market. they can't run the central bank that which stay the course. >>s in a week in which the president said the fed was going crazy. >> loco.
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>> and should stop raising rates. >> the same federal reserve that was not crazy but they were inflating a bubble during the obama administration because they were too easy is now crazy fed because in the greatest economy in the industry of our country they are trying to get rates to normalize so you tell -- one of them is wrong. or both of them are wrong. i don't know which one but i'll say this i'm with tim the fed -- it's not the fed's job to make the market go hire if the market can't handle the fed goating to normal interest rates when the market has been up ten years in the greatest history of the economy the words of the president. >> it's not like the fed hasn't been telegraphing this a long time. >> there is no end in sight. >> according to mr. kudlow let's go around the horn and do final trades timmy. >> we got to a 5% mortgage rate this week. i don't think that home depot suffers. in fact the consumer is making a lot of money home depot sflo cbwn disney,
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half of what the market was doing defensive long trade. >> okay. karen. >> i'm sticking with jp morgan i like those earnings. >> of course you are. >> of course i am stickering with them right here. >> guy adami. >> great to have you here i know you are doing away in the ongss action. >> this is just the op advertiser >> main course coming up >> speaking of main course pfizer drug i'm telling you pfizer drug gets you done. >> good tough thank you. thanks karen have a great weekend. you as well does it for us on "fast money. don't move "options action" starts after the break
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hey there, live from the nasdaq market site in times square we have a big away show for you tonight. here is what's coming up >> announcer: netflix shares soared ever a a wild week. but the chart master says don't trust the bounce he will tell us why. plus -- industrials are getting crushed. >> no! >> chill out, dude, because mike khouw has a way to protect losses and chip stocks sinking and dan nathan says it's the tip of the

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