impressive. >> another potential for a boost if we get trade positivity. >> i think it has more chance of a surprise on the negative side. they want the g20 out of the zbla we also get fed minutes tomorrow. >> and enough for "closing bell." thanks for watching. >> "fast money" starts now. "fast money" starts right now. riff from the nasdaq market site over looking new york city's times square trades it pete harjen. steve grasso and guy adami tonight on fastest everything is awesome. according to the federal reserve. jerome powell sparking a epic rally after pacifying concerns, the dow surging 600 points the s&p jumping 2% the nasdaq up a whopping 3%. and jonathan golub who was there will tell us why the market is going higher but there is a catch he explains. let's send it over to steve

liesman for more on powell's message to the market. did powell give in >> some people characterize it that way i'd say he redirected from a legal standpoint perhaps but what he did for sure was ignite a powerful rally saying the fed is not on a preset course, the market wanted that and that the fed is just below the range of neutral estimates >> interest rates are still low by historical standards and they remain just below the range of estimates of that level that would be neutral for the economy, that is neither speeding up nor slowing down growth. >> let's unpack that they say it's not as dovish as markets think. the top of the range is only one hike away from the bottom end and but three from the middle and 5 from the top it could mean anything along those lineses. he also affirmed the fed's plans to the shore up rates.

the dollar shot down here is what happened in the futures market a rise or percentage chance of a rate hike in december and a little bit lower for june which is where the first hike for 2019 is priced in. and the market is very pessimistic about peen a second hike by october 2019 here is the big test, whether the fed outlook is changes is coming in three woks that's when we see whether they change the forecast from an average of three hikes in 2019 to something lower for next year and melissa, you may have a question "fast money" but i have one for you and the traders. here is my question. >> turn the tables there. >> i'm turning the table on you. do these guys want to see less growth and fewer fed rate hikes? or prefer more growth and more rate hikes i know the wise ass answer. >> the wise ass answer. >> we want high growth and no rate hikes i'm telling you that's not an option. >> i would pause it that the --

what the markets were doing in october was anticipating what came about in the data which caused powell to directionally change the message to the markets today. and so the markets already saw that there were signs that they -- you know in the cards, that growth may not be as strong as before. >> right, right. >> and that's what happened in the month of october. >> under that theory what the market was really afraid about was the fed would make a mistake it was on the hell bent -- we're going to hike or not -- that's two curses in a single hit i usually don't do any. >> potty mouth. >> it was hell bent on raising rates no matter what one of the things powell convinced markets of that's not the case there is an optionalty to it. >> why do you think economists are so hell bent on positing that what powell said today is not much different than october. >> because -- because economists did not misunderstand him when he said back in october that we are a long way from neutral.

because when he said long way, the only way that a very -- that a day to day fed observer could hear that is saying, well he thinks we are 100 basis points away which is with we all sort of thought. some people heard long way and freaked out what does that mean, 200, 150 no we always knew most of the folks were thought neutral was 3. we were at 2 or 2.25 we were a long way from neutral if you look at it that way but that wasn't a major change in policy at that point. >> okay. steve, thanks. steve liesman. >> did the fed just give wall street the all clear sign? is it safe to buy again? and do you think what powell said today is different from october. >> three questions. >> a lot of questions i don't know if irk remember that. >> we were having the discussion with steve and the economists out there saying what he said today was not different from october. the markets take it in a

different way. >> became more pragmatic tim was touger about how in the shorter term the s&p was vastly oversolden >> i was having dinner. >> hope you enjoy to do. >> i did. >> and we also talked about now -- i thought the market rallied but i naught it would rally on the back of the president xi and president trump handshaking and best friend. i didn't think it rallies on the back of the fed. what does it mean now? it's interesting this gives president trump a couple more cards to play this weekend, right the markets now he can take a more hawkish stance with the chinese as opposed to a couple days ago when the market was reeling. in could be bad for this weekend anticipates meeting. >> that gets to the criticism that trump made to the "washington post" yesterday which we were all sort of ringing our hands over, right? and that is he is trying to make deals and the fed is not

accommodating. here we are all of a sudden jerome powell is more accommodating. >> did we get a tweet today. >> october 3rd is when the markets sol off. it was a long way from neutral now just below neutral that's all you need to know. granted trade is a headwind. but this was about the fed selloff we're halfway there. >> you could make an argument that the fed downgraded the economy. what's neutral in an environment where you have fiscal run off injection near qe. >> with the move lower wasn't that was what was happening? no. >> yes, do i think markets are pricing in slower growth i will go back to steve's question that guy didn't hanse. >> he didn't ask me. >> i took it upon myself to answer. >> the question to that question is we would rather see more growth and more fed pap that's where we'd like to be. a growth scare is a lot worse than inflation scare the fed stepping back isn't ultimately great but yes powell needed to reiterate the fed is going to be

data dependent and yes i do this think there was plenty of room to step back. >> i think the markets want lower rates, unfortunately. >> i don't think so. >> with growth, people do the calculus the rates move higher, risk on equities move lower. >> we are still at historical low levels in terms ever rates powell pointed that out but said we are going to be data dependent. don't sit there and say we are hiking this many times he said enough today that i think people really said we can get our arms around this. >> he also said the economy was good. >> good. not overheating but good. >> good, right. >> i think that everybody read into that what they did. and that's why we saw the market react the way it did by the way unbelievable paper in the last couple days in terms of everything being short-term, expiring friday or going out maybe one more week. you talked about the spdrs, we had smh, microsoft, swell, all kinds of monstrous buys etf,

xli, everything very aggressive and short and no volume for three days until today >> so rates stay lower for longer maybe or at least there is the possibility at this point. what do you buy? theoretically right, the growth stocks that weren't looking good are better now aren't they. >> well i guess. >> reluctance. >> facebook is a little idiosyncratic. >> the didn't make amazon sell off. didn't make nvidia ket get did you tell off in. >> i think that was of the growth value, the growth value scare rotation that was the essence of the selloff led by the fed. >> what's interesting though is we're not talking about trade today. and is the question is the fed more important than trade? i would argue they are and i would argue the biggest shocks to the market all year have been when the fed is a back drop yes trade indicates slowerer growth and headwinds but the fed

is invitely more important. >> i i disagree. the reason i say that is if you look at volatility even though up 600 plus points, volatility, the index held in amazingly solid. here we are trading the way we were if indeed people are saying this is it, i think trade is bigger quite frankly. >> but fed caused the selloff october 3rd those comments and that's the reason. >> i don't disagree on that from october 3rd to here. but let's be honest about the idea we didn't have clarity and the clarity we didn't get in the earning cycle all stemmed from trade. that wasn't about the fed. that was more about trade. and that's still in front of us. that's why i think the g20 and the short-term paper, perfect timing for the short-term paper. you have powell today, the g20 coming up. >> and the actual fed meeting also next week. >> absolutely. all of that. >> this is an interesting setup. only out for one week. >> december 7th expiring, december 14th expiring that's short. >> it's a sell the news event? are we setting up such that

trump may have cover for no deal the fomc confirming powell's views today. and nondo you sustain the gains. >> it comes down to the g20. we are looking at the g20 and obviously the fed we have a good sense. i don't know about the rest of the desk i assume we agree. i think we are getting a hike, a quarter point in front of us then it's up in the air. >> and after the speech he gave today. >> back to the data dependent and the rest of the words the normal fed gives out. >> hidden in the fed -- not hidden powell pointed out a number of risks for the market that had nothing to do with the federal reserve, not least of which was -- we talked about high yield and corporate debt the other night. and we -- all we talk about is trade. he pointed out the asymmetric risks in the market. >> and he said they weren't systemic risks s in a speech the fed chairman gives where he has to talk about certain components of the

broader economy. i just think the market wanted to hear something today. and i think the fed has adjusted their tone no question. because again you had in earlier with clarida, a comments a week and a half ago that a fed wasn't more neutral. >> when you were skpg if we got a tweet today because it would have been a victory lap. >> it wouldn't have been surprising. >> he hasn't done anything different. just to button it up he just comes out softer along with what he was doing you could say it's a win but i don't know if it's a win. >> the next guest says we are going higher from here but it won't be the bull market you knew before. let's bring in jonathan golub from credit swoos at the economic club event where jerome powell spoke earlier good to have you here. >> good to be here. >> do you agree with our assessment in terms of whether jay powell said something different. >> he absolutely said something different. i'm sitting at the lunch here is

what happens he speaks at a certain time two minutes before the transcript comes out and everybody gets it on the phone and the reading and not listening to his introduction and the only thing they care about is he said let's call it what it is, guys we're kind of done here. right, the futures market was saying that we have one in december, one something in the neighborhood of march to june. and then here is the story for next year soft landing any -- it's not like they simply were finished with the hiking cycle. they went from zero rate policy no country has ever gone from zero rate back to neutral and he told you that we're pulling this off. and yes his growth slowing next year of course. but we knew that we were way with above trend because of the stimulus if i polled all of us do you think we have another 3% gdp year or 3% eps? no. >> thaeps what this administration is putting in the deficit. i agree with everything you said you can't tell me with the

market many people don't think the tax cuts are the get that keeps on giving. >> i wasn't for the tax cuts with an economy in decent shape you didn't need to pump this anymore. guy i agree with your point. the tech secretarier is not down because of a comment made. was he the catalyst maybe it happened that day? >> so the growth value switch that we saw, the rotation growth value had zero to do with the fed? >> maybe -- maybe a small part of it if at all. here is what happened positions across the hedge fund community, hunlly lo hugery long concentrated tech momentum growth trade. somewhere somebody got spooked. >> because the markets were moving higher. >> i don't think so. because i'll tell you when he spoke in october look at the fed funds futures. 10 basis points move it wasn't like the market said he was going to move 50 basis points more. i don't think it was i think it was a correction on

positioning. >> so compared to, i don't know, 12 hours ago you are more bullish on the markets now. >> not really. >> not really. he change his tone but it hasn't changed your view. >> the market before was saying that we have two more rate hikes. that's what it said before powell basically said the, i'm agreeing with the market the market was saying he was never going to move. and i disagree with steve liesman who said a long way is four hikes and the market was saying two. and he basically said today is guys it's two. if that's what it is my read is we're going there anyway we would have gotten the bounce today, three weeks from now. i think this gets this one way or another. >> what do you want to be in >> i think the big change -- people hate this you don't want to be in cyclical stocks into next year because i think the economy is legitimately going to be weaker. i just downgraded industrials. i downgraded materials

banks i had as an overweight, now neutral weight, i think growth wins again. tech is good we upgraded health care because in the environment where you have slightly weaker growth not recessionary but slightly weaker. >> tech stocks didn't go down because of the fed in october. and they went down to for fundamental reasons. >> i don't think it was fundamental. i think it was positioning >> a technical selloff. >> technical selloff in the near-term i think that tech is bouncing very hard. >> but, i mean, apple amazon terrible guidance. facebook is in a world of pain on regulation. gool are google in pain on regulation. >> look at the beats this quarter in all five fang stocks they all killed it if you look at response for next year's earnings expectation for five companies they were up not down you can say, so apple had slightly weaker results on units but the revenues higher. >> weaker fourth quarter amazon weaker.

look. >> look for the broad market the overall earnings estimates in aggregate they are mack sm line with normal. >> jonathan good to see you. >> pete, najarian what did you hear >> to his point talking about tech, i bought more intel today. took off of a microsoft position today. moving around a little bit took off the options that was one of the short terms they expire friday mel. they were buying them yesterday. moved that much in a sim day but i bought cvs as well there were certain names with interesting story lines when the options are there i jump in. >> yes flagged health care look at the move in thc over the last trading days but big cap pharma is trading weapon. pfizer is up against $45. >> after the broad base rally, a top technician says the bottom is near, showing us the chart that gives him hope the bulls could be back foor good. plus a stock not rallying,

tiffany down 10% after the report and it could be a warning sign for retailers. later, it's alive. that's right bitcoin is rallying above $4,000 is the cryptocollapse over we have the details. we are live in new york city where the rockefeller center tree is lighting up for the season soon.

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talk about a buzz kill, the stock slammed today. down double digits pointing at weaker chinese tourism but the rest of the retailers managing to stage a rally despite the bad news >> the there are going to be ups and downs and tiffany found itself in the cross hairs of the downs. obviously if they point towards that in terms of the reason why any missed as much as any did, that's telling me there is a bigger problem afoot here in tiffanys i'd stay away from the stock right now. >> see, i think the stock had so much pain and such a dramatic movie don't buy today. but at $92 it's not only round trip but you're back a stock that's done flat the last couple years when. >>. >>ive two brands, tiffany true getting relevant with the millennial crowd and growing around the world. >> is there anything that you think comes back about chinese

spending >> that's the worries that overcompensated today. all the tailwinds. i like his entry point because that was the last time when you said what are you kited about, new products, advertising promos this is not your parent's tiffanys anymore they are recreating with millennials this is where the stock popped gave it all back. >> the blue box finds its way in the adami house. >> me. >> or you. >> does it have to be a tiffany prd inside. >> that's a food point. >> they make great vases and the bowls, the nice tiffany bowls. >> okay. >> what do you think about the retail sector. >> i'm glad you asked, tim because they are great trading stocks we talked on monday about jw nordstrom and we mentioned the rack. >> and that was the trade yesterday. >> it is the thing. >> it's not nordstrom it's the rack look at the way the stock traded from 50 back to 64

now the suffolk is up a tum dlarps since i said on monday and again you start to see analysts upgrade in jwmn. >> for more on the tiffany plunge you can go to cnbc donning. you are watching "fast money" on cnbc here is what else is coming up tonight >> that's what the market looked like today and a top technician says there is one chart that's pointing to signs that even morp strength ahead. >> it's alive. it's alive. yes bitcoin is rallying. you heard that right, back above $4,000 and a cryptohedge fund manager says this is just the beginning. much more "fast money" after this there are performers, dancers, designers the dads and the drivers. there are doers of good and bringers of glee. this time of the year is so much more

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reappearing. bob pisani at the nyse to break it down. >> hello, melissa. the s&p up 3% since bottoming on october 29th technology and energy have been big underperformers in fact still trading down since nondespite the rally today but several sectors notably outperformed starting with health care up 6.7%. since that bottom that's led by cardinal health, generic drug maker teva pharmaceutical giant lilly doing well retailers had a bounce despite tiffany led by foot locker, auto zone, under armour and amazon is up 5% after dropping 25% in the last six weeks or so. one wig laggard to keep an eye on is materials, i talked about in particularly metals and mining stocks pummeled on concerns over a stronger dollar. particularly the tariff issues many come off the bottoms. today was a really strong day

for them big gains in alcoa and-free port mcmoran. and allegheny. finally another mover, financials up over 6%. second biggest in the s&p. it's a diversified group not one sector american express up 10%. several insurers have been strong met life chubb, aig up in high single digits banks are up but not stronger compared to the rest of the group. pnc and bank corp. many other individualing up 2 and 4%. >> bob at the new york stock exchange. >> usb was or i had trade. >> nobody voted for it. >> we know this but i'm just reliving it. what happens often to a times is you get a move that already happened and people say, well, you know i'm afraid of the trade. i think people are afraid. i think it has upside.

it's taking time and going to grind and but it's clean and pure. >> are these signs of life. >> they are signs of life but nervous about the financials 2s 10s spread is flattening not widening growth is coming in decelerating that's a headwind. american express bullish, us bank, bullish but anomalies. >> is today's action a sign stocks hit a bottom. let's go off the chart with chris. >> how you doing we will kpart with the xlf what's been noticeable about the last couple weeks there are signs of outperformance here i think it's interesting xlf did not make a new low with the market last week modest outperformance there. if we look at xlf. making three month relative highs versus the index ultimately i want this back

above the 200, 27.72 that's a better tone but quiet outperformance that's worth noting we talk about us bank one of the better bank charts i think what's particularly notable, it bottoms back in may, did not make a lower low in october. really right on the verge heerp get it up through 55 it target the low 60 neighborhood the best name in the group from a trend perspective the has been am ex. every time it chekts the 200 day moving average responds did it a few weeks ago on the making new highs relative leader versus the index as well. and i think ultimately if the sector gets in gear we need some of the laggards involved we in a modest bounce from goldman sachs the last several days but what we struggle with is it the resistance in 210, 220 range

where it broke down. any bounce from that area is an opportunity to lighten exposure with a kmart like this. >> come on over, chris. >> wow. >> just like that. >> just hike that. >> she did that the other day. >> dictatorship when it comes to inviting the desk. >> it's her deal. >> i don't believe i have a voice. >> you can believe that but it's not true. >> it's not. >> so is there something wrong with goldman that's worst worse than the rest of the financials? is it a short or something you can't be long at this point. >> it's been telegraphing weakness to us all year. the suffolk in early february tried to rally with the market this summer, went to a lower high the 215, 220 range there are a lot of dead bodies there are people wishing they sold who will let it go. >> when i mention the 2s 10s spread do you look in a vacuum

or over lay with the back drop fundamentals have to come in at some point. >> what's interesting, steve, when rates were going up that was no boon for banks. that wasn't a bullish catalyst for much of the year when it should have been i'm less convinced that the shape of the curve or what bond yields does from here is as crucial here you took four or five basis pointsous of 250er yields from and 10 basis points oh off the yields from a pew for a weeks ago. i don't want to see the fed funds and 2-year yields cross. that's often a sign the banks can't work. >> sorry you're steve you're chris. >> you follow the rest of the emerging markets that's been a valiant rally back does that continue from your kmart we broke through the 50 on the em possibly since january. it's maybe a one-day move. but it feels a little bit

different. >> tim what you pointed out and i agree with they hit the em first that got hit early the sellers moved on from that we saw signs of relative performance perk up over the last month as they went after s&p. from a leadership perspective given the move in rates, maybe weaker dollar it's not out of the question can you get leadership from that part of the world. what i think was notable about today -- leaves me frankly uncomfortable it was the same leadership, tech and health care again. i would have preferred to see industrials at the top of the list or some of the laggards at the top of the list. overall deents za but i would prefer better leadership. >> do you think we need the change in leadership or is it possible we had the same leadership why is it impossible that we have the same leadership. >> i don't think it's impossible but i think for a healthy expanding durable and strategic move we're going to need more

stocks on the playing field than we had motivate of the year. >> chris, thank you. >> chris of strategyis. >> need more soccer team than basketball team. >> what does that mean. >> number of players, bigger. >> it's a court but you get my drift. to answer the goldman question i'm a gamd fan. >> you have been. >> but the malaysia situation they are embroiled in is a bigger deal. 186 is tangible book they traded down to 186 or so the last week. it's interesting that citi bank finds itself flirting with tangible book as well. in citi bank's case. european bank expose kwur yur and goldman case may abproblem with malaysia. >> pete you agree you want different leadership. >> yes but when you look at industrials today, strong day. nice bounce today. they are names individually in the industrial space that i like a lot. but i'm in the xli that's my

exposure to that inkt there is upside if we get clarity in the trade war that we talk about every day that's lots of upside. >> trump attacking general motors again as the president hints on twitter that new auto tariffs cop ecould be coming plus it's alive just when you thought it's time to bury bitcoin. but one bitcoin bull says watch out the bottom is not in he will be here when we come he will be here when we come righking santa for this year. you still write letters to santa? no. please. i send him emails. can i get his email address? oh... i don't feel comfortable sharintit. buy the latest iphone, get iphone xr on us, and get the unlimited plan and the best of entertainment. more for your thing. that's our thing.

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welcome back to "fast money. president trump doubling down on his threats against general motors after the major plan to cut jobs and close plants. our phil low bow is at the auto show where everyone is talking process gm. >> melissa, for all the focus on the new model here there is plenty of talk about the latest tweets from president trump. this one in particular the president tweeting out, countries that send us cars have taken advantage of the u.s. for decades. the president has great power on this issue because of the gm event it's become studied now. for a point in reference in terms of where the vehicles that we buy in the united states are built, 56% are built domestically what you want to focus on are japan and europe 15% of models come from areas where the president threatened to potentially slap on a higher tariff on vehicles imported from those areas. we talked with the ceo of volvo

and he said a higher tariff on vehicles from europe would be devastating. >> that would really hit the volvo business and the whole automotive business and the losers will be the consumers because long-term costs will be. expense he and employment. >> as you look at shares of general motors they raled late with the rest of the market. but this is a stock under pressure as the trump administration maintains it will do something about the possibility of the lordstown plant and the detroit plants shutting down, perhaps within a year, as gm has decided it is not going to have production at those two facilities anymore for its part general motors said nothing about the latest tweets. that's the story here at the l.a. auto show back to you. >> phil lebeau in los angeles. will trump throw down on the hammer on gm what's the story on the the rest of the auto stocks? you can't just tariffs on cars

made gm in other places. >> autos have headwinds, gm has problems ford is down 23% gm down 11% year to date i think the least of the problems is trump. i wouldn't be a buyer of the names right now until they show real support and rally upon a consecutive basis. >> i think gm is showing great support. fantastic. >> i feel like with we need to split you up. >> split zreen. >> i see it coming. >> i don't flow if i'm up for a two box. >> i tell what you i have enough for both bottom line. >> that's not what i heard. >> gm is trading well where it should be. about to break through the 200 day. but how impressed are we that they are going offer the profitable businesses and scuttling inefficient ones the reason is industry is changing is people don't want sedans that's a losing business. >> why hasn't the stock shown that it's not profitable >> it has to me. >> it's down 11% had problems way before trump. >> what's the stock done when

the people have guidance and numbers. >> most people are judged by year to date performance. >> i don't no what you're tag about. >> it's a stock it's year to date if things are rosy the stock should be up autos had problems before trump and continue off ongoing problems. >> okay so look we trade add peak auto dynamic for a long time the autos weak gm is showing ner changing the habits of the auto sector which has been inefficient and leaving bad businesses cutting jobs never been more profitable record business there trading ats six times numbers i like it. >> i own gm with you, tim. >> sore rid. >> yeah, but i ask you this, what gets in stock to actually perform the way steve is talking right now. i understand all to well. >> the stock is up 23 peppers in the last two weeks after restructuring. >> i get that. i'm saying year to date when you look at it to steve ace point. >> it traded horribly a word we

use add few times. for two years because people were pricing in peak autos people don't believe nef the ev business. >> can i ask a question. i don't want on any side or in any box. >> right. >> but here is the question i have, is the only catalyst for gm at this point restructuring >> as opposed to strong demand or. >> yeah, that's all. >> these guys should not be. >> for trucks. >> they shouldn't be running a business only worth owning when we're at peak autos. look we pulled a lot much demand forward in the auto sector we know cars are more efficient nan ever they're also -- they are transitioning into ev and robo taxis. appear they are as much a player as anybody. >> i understand seven or eight years the united states bailed out general motors. >> for a ultimate cost of $$11 billion. >> >> they and every bank and airline. >> huyer, sure but they made a business decision that was the right

business decision. and now the president is coming down on them that to me is a monumental problem. i understand gm is specific. but if companies making decisions costing jobs and factories for business sense and you have the aurg of the president laying above it that's a problem. >> that's my concern. >> but he has done this with a bunch much companies opinion and they are not lasting effects. there has been bluster. >> this is the most tangible threat in terms of tariffs on the industry and also take away subsidies. the other one is jaw boning we can get a better price it wasn't we are taking something away. >> the without trump was the stock traded from 45 in june down to 30 it bounced but we are off the $45 price. what brings it back? i don't see it. >> bach surgings on the earnings report we tell what you wall street says about the report.

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black tower capital a leading investment fund. welcome back. >> thank you for having me. >> you make the argument that you think that bitcoin is moving from weak hands to strong hands. i thought that happened from 20 to 6 what happened between 6 and three and change. >> the weak hand strong hand argument is relevant now the problem is strong money -- strong hands are actually quite patient. and so i think a lot of the volatility and the gap risk in the market is a function of the participants still there and i think as we just mentioned about the stress cycle we are in a significant distress cycle in crypto appear opinion at last leg is volatile and short lived when we think about has the bottom set in i think we have one more leg lower. >> how low. >> i won't make a prediction. >> talking below three. >> fall in the 50%, 2000 from here but that opportunity will be short lived. i think these jairs -- the level we're at right now, is a great

long-term entry point if you are accumulating if you think about the howard marks of the world, they are patient and wait for the last leg of the distress cycle to set in but the smart money is moving. mit, harvard, standrd, yale, they are entering through the private side on the veteran venture markets. >> which is different than the kroip. >> that's the private side but most of the portfolios are vechg in companies building infrastructure for the broader asset space including the public markets. >> in the beginning maybe when the weak hands prevailed, there was the argument when you invest in cryptocurrency you are vechg in the blockchain you can't separate the two here we are in a situation wrp we have institutions investing in the company side of things into the blockchain applications and not in the cryptocurrency. we have seen a collapse in the the cryptocurrency but it seems people are building

platforms and programs and ecosystems. >> yes. >> is that argument out the window in terms of cryptocurrency being a measure of the vitality of the blockchain. >> you should separate the two that being said there is a lot happening at the crypto asset as well a lot of the smartest engineers in the world are flocking to this space but when it comes to the public crypto markets what we need to to see are macrocycles you need to stee a different macrocycle that we've signs since the beginning of bitcoin until we see the global rate hike cycle or something of that. it's hard for a risk parity strategy or macroportfolio manager to put bitcoin into the correlation mat tricks and/or put in a risk framework around the asset class what i think will be a headwind for the broader macroasset class is i think will be a tailwind for the adoptens of the public markets. >> i'm sorry for being obtuse

what makes the difference in terms of what global central banks are doing? it was never part of the thesis before. >> this is more from an institutional adoption perspective. >> okay. >> if you look at multiple poefrmt manager they are there is history in the cycles there is only one cycle in bitcoin. the market has gone one wap. >> how about all the charts overlaying past buss are they cycle or not this is part of a giant cycle. because people have said we see the bust before or and the overlay the draw downs of 80%. but you say we are only seeing one? >> it comes to the market participants and mispricing evolution. basically saying there is value in the long run but trying to fronted front runde the value creation that's difficult game to play and it's difficult to game to play as the swing trade are and the biggest swing

traders are the retail markets that's pretty much the volume of the space. when i say it's important to have the macroportfolio managers it's involved because you need to dampen the volatility in the space. that only happens with professional money market. >> thank you michael. >> you know the dedicated hands are not going anywhere the question is whether the someone of the smartest guys in the world like howard marks institutionally are ready? they weren't a year ago. probably less so now i do think central banks matter because they dictate the cycle of risk tolerance. and unfortunately yes diversefy indication. >> you have a problem with cannabis entering, where you have alternate investments taking a bit of the spotlight. and there is a lot of dollars that choice kpoin and cannabis and you can look on a chart. it's hard to deny that money

came out. >> it's totally different. >> the u.s. asset classes. >> split them up. >> it's the same. >> from guys that have the desks they wind up chasing the same dollars. tim and i have the number one amount of two boxes. >> we have a two box counter. >> yes. >> check out- speaking of boxes check out box. after the erpgs report we check out the headlines and instant reaction from wall street. plus a check of the cramer kim there is jim talking to the qualcomm ceo after that the stock crushed in the last few months live at the nasdaq in times square much more fast still ahead ♪ come on. come on, squirt. (dog barking) whatever your financial goals are, a u.s. bank wealth management advisor can help make them a reality.

talk to one today. u.s. bank - the power of possible.

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when you buy a new smartphone. xfinity mobile. it's simple. easy. awesome. click, call or visit a store today. welcome back to "fast money. we have the earnings alert on box, the cloud stock soaring in the after hours session. seema modi at headquarters with the wahl reaction. >> thanks to a double digit rise in revenue and growth in bilk. shares of box up 5% in extended trade. but it has been a tough year for the cloud storage firm shares down 30% in the past three months analysts at d.a. davidson say sentiment was mixed heading into the print the slang why the stock is up in the after market. the important thing for the stock to work is to see evidence that underlying growth can accelerate wells fargo says box's business is susceptible to adverse changes and global macrotrends and joon-pyo morgan wrote that longer term concerns of box's

ability to compete in a highly fragmented market and against companies like microsoft and google with the stronger brand recognition have not gone away >> seema at headquarters who likes the cloud stocks. >> well box -- quickly box is interesting. they had over 40% growth in teals more than 100,000. that was good. add on products over 80% growth. we will talk about valuation and that's ridiculous. every upside move since the ins exception has been sold. but salesforce petes something in his eye. >> i was just blinking. >> all good. >> we were talking about salesforce -- i thought the quarter is really good and the stock built on yesterday's gains. built on it today. i think salesforce despite the values which we all agree. >> would you rather, not sales frps or box. >> who plays the games here. >> salesforce or microsoft eye ob for the beta i think

salesforce, crm. >> i own microsoft for the reason it's about the cloud. i think the growth they get there -- we talked about in last night, the selloff hitting microsoft wasn't that powerful relative to the rest of what we call fang and the rest of technology because it's not overpriced. i think there is plenty of upside. >> i think there is enormous competition. the valuations in the space are looked at different in the software space again at some point you have a lot of cloud players. i'm not sure box competes with salesforce at this point people starpt to wonder what the multiple is. the growth is fom noelle nall and they dominate the competition. >> grasso can we stick with the cloud stocks. >> microsoft. >> can we -- i'm asking you permission. >> yes. >> you run the show now. >> oh. >> a commercial break right now. >> i would like to talk about workday. options trade remembers implying some big moves ahead let's get to mike khouw in san

francisco. hey, mike. >> hi, yes the options market implies a moves of 6.5%%% for workday. that's above the average we did well above average put volume traded 4 times the average put volume one of the trade we saw was interesting was a purchase of the december 14th weekly 141.39 put spread that raid traded 1500 times for 50 cents the buyer is making a bearish bet it could get to the 139 level, a move of 5% where it closed they bet it's a disappointing earnings result. we have seen the open interest in the puts exceed calls for the first time since mid-2017 in the name the sentiment is not that positive despite today's pop. >> all right thanks mike for that mike khouw in san francisco. for "options action" check ou the full sw id 5hofray:30 p.m. at eastern time. final trades up next

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final trades pete. >> i'm going with cvs. huge call buying in here it's going higher giddyup. >> dan. >> not sure what the stock did

yesterday but gm going up tomorrow. >> xlu case the rally isn't for real. etf utilities. >> guy. >> the refinered trade might be back on the burner mollen co my mission is simple, to make you money i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere, and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money. welcome to cramerica other people want to make friends. i'm just trying to save you some money. my job is not just to entertain but to educate and teach you so call me at 1-800-743-cnbc or tweet me @jimcramer. if we go into severe slow down, don't you go