tyler mathison not here today. we're all going to miss his presence the dow was up more than 500 points it's hanging onto some of those gains. we're up about 125 now the dow dropped nearly a thousands points oil is higher this afternoon but only by about 20%. the president claiming russia and saudi arabia are close to making a deal on production cuts that's sent energy stocks soars. there are conflicting reports. crude is up about 18%. all of this as almost 10 million americans file for jobless claims in the last two weeks it's stand your grounding number as the virus puts many businesses at complete stand still. we'll have more in a moment. let's start with bob on today's snap back rally. bob. >> we are just off the highs as you mentioned. there's a bit of debate about how real this ten million production cut is for saudi

arabia and anybody else involved energy has been the big mover here today it's remarkable to me. i want to point out apache at $4 it was a $60 stock a few years ago. yet people are still buying it it always amazes me. continue n contin continental. restaurant, weak today a breaker came out and suspended its guidance unably all the stocks in that space. the red robins, papa john's, wendy's d wendy's, dominos are all down 5, 6, 7, 8% partly for the same reason, kim kimco came out and suspended guidance as well that's not helping their competitors out there. utilitiel

down yesterday if there's a rent holiday, the banks, the utilities are all going to be hit by that. you till ti utilities not paying the bills those are the three sectors that could be hit pi any rent rent holiday. not paying bills and the shopping centers are bearing the brun brun brunt of that pain back do you. >> thanks very much. the number of americansrocketing over the past two weeks. let's get to steve for the e e details. >> i want give you some recent commentary they are saying we are almost certainly in a recession noting the claims numbers this morning and come paparing it to a hurri but a hurricane that's affecting the entire united states all at once and saying he's unclear if this will be a fast bounce back

or something that takes longer robert caplan saying he has questions about what happens to the consumer and how long this goes on. he did seem to be sticking to his idea there was a relatively fast bounce back questions creeping into that, the speed of the recovery among federal reserve officials. part of that is the unbelievable pace of the jobless claims rise. 6.6 million reported this morning. that is unbelievable record versus 3.1 estimated almost double the number take a look at the past couple of weeks we went up 211 to 282. 3.3 million last week to 6.6 million this week. i modelled in conservatively what all that could mean using a couple of assumptions for the unemployment rate. assuming no hiring out there and the vast majority of the claims go into unemployment and you

come up with right now given these numbers. 8.3% unemployment rate but it could already be 10% it wouldn't be out of the order right now for that to be that high these kind of claims are something that you expect to happen even more in coming weeks. some of the states like new york were much lower than we think they will get. new jersey as well california may be on pace already. closer to almost 900,000 but there's still a lot to come when it comes to these claims numbers. >> that's what people are asking they are saying if some of the biggest population states are only now to shut things down, what kind of levels here could we reach >> well, part of the problem is going to be the backlog in the ability of the states to process. they have seen nothing like this that 6.6 million that filed or reported to have filed in this past week, is equal to the total number of continuing claims from

the 2009 recession or the peak oift they had many months i think it took like 20 months to get up to that high of a level. this happened in just a week there's two problems here. one is the backlog. two is more people are eligible and three you know these state offices for unemployment are experiencing some of the same problems working that everybody is it's unclear if they can get everybody in i have to imagine there's been something of a heroic effort to get these number of claims filed and you keep hearing the stories. people can't get through they can't get on the website. i would expect these numbers to keep going up over time here until we reach -- numbers i've heard for the month of april, 20 million on the plate for the month of april >> thanks. stocks have just turned negative on the dow a moment ago. we were up more than 500 at the highs. we were hanging on a 7-point gain for the blue chip s&p is up about a third of 1%

but the nasdaq and russells are lower. david is on the line he's the chief economist and the cnbc contributor dave, are there any points that people are missing about the nature of the layoffs and the shutting down of the economy right now? i don't know what kind of letter shaped rebound you thip we might have at this point >> we have no play book for this there's no real template that we can rely on. in the past i think that we have to build an assumption here that we could be in this isolation mode or the social distancing, you know, through not just the balance of this quarter but into july i could see the canadian government, the australian government made some comments along those lines. i believe we will get through this and we're in the eye of the storm right now.

we're just entering into it. but, i don't see there's going to be significant recovery even after we see this improvement on the case curve and the start to leave our homes and start to work again i think that until we get the most important data point for me is when we get a vaccination that's when things will get back to normal or quasi normal. the recovery, until we get a vaccine, that will be the point that much will feel more comfortable spending the way they were before the virus hit >> we talked to the chair of madurna last hour and he emphasized we will need all hands on deck. we'll need a lot of supplies maybe a lot of different approaches others are different i wonder if we're going to have that single headline or that clarity. >> it's going to be piecemeal. even getting a treatment would

be helpful and to so fuful to st when you look at the sales data that people aren't spending be way they were before 70% of gdp is consumer spending. i think there will be a prolonged period of caution. on top of that some will figure out who will pay for the fiscal largese. who will pay for everything that had to be done to get us there there's no such ming as a free lunch. you have to believe the current generation of taxpayers, some of us will be paying for this it's not just going be future taxpayers. maybe you want to pay attention to the personal savings. we went into this at every level

of society next thing you know an economic crisis becomes a liquidity crisis i think how businesses and households approach liquidity, how they approach cash and the balance sheets is going to be a lot different than it was before it's going to really cause us to be, i'm not causing it an l shaped, i think it's going to be a loong term series i'm talking about years. >> i hope wrour wroyou're wrong you make a lot of good points. does that imply that happens only after interest rates start to rise. we just issue as much as we need to

that's a great answer. will the answer be the fed did we head into debt mo monetization at some point be we go that route and the fed loses control of the base, then you'll find people who have been in the declining bond yield cap no such thing as a free lunch. it will be higher tax in the future and that will cause the savings rate to go up. or if it's done on the fed balance sheet, it will come out with more inflation. >> people won't believe that they will say it doesn't matter how big the balance sheet is >> when we get past the worst of the recession then and you're taking a look at what happens

between the money supply and velocity and look i've been in that camp for a long time. i was saying for many years that qe on its own will not precipitate a big inflationary cycle and it didn't happen there's no such thing as free lunch. people seem to think we can align the fed's balance sheet and it's infinite. if that's the case you have to ask yourself the question why haven't we done this before. we could have avoided every recession in the past. there's going to be risks on this down the road and the risk will be in the next economic expansion and once we say we absorb savings that we have, there will be inflationary consequences a it will be for the time frame. >> thanks for your time today.

i have -- coming up, in the u.s there's more than 226,000 confirmed cases of the coronavirus. that's nearly dub the numb lly r in italy and spain health care workers are facing a pay cut. the virus closing doors for many stores as retailers are forced to scale back and layoff their employees or furlough them stay with us we cannot do all the good that the world needs. but right now, the world needs all the good that we can do. to everyone working to keep america strong, thank you.

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retail continues to get slammed by the coronavirus with foot traffic falling to zero, courtney is here with the next shoe to fall, the next round of layoffs >> in these cases we're talking about furloughs. by my count it's been about 60 brands so far that has announced them these numbers will keep rising this amounts to 100 of thousand offense employees.

these joined the previous furlough announcemented by macy's, kohl's and others. the majority that are furloughed will get to keep the health insurance if they previously had it with these employers and in many cases the employers are picking up that premium. they are eligible because it's a furlough by my count i've got 220 large brands closing stores. that's more than 67,000 locations. that's likely well under counting what is closed because of the independent names and some of the other retailers that haven't made large announcements. they are included in numbers that i've been tracking. many salaried employees are seeing their salary reduced. many ceos are taking no salarie

and 401(k) matching programs are being frozen or suspended by retailers include macy's, chico's, la-z-boy and others >> we just got some news from the irs that i think is relevant where they say that americans can expect to get direct deposits for these stimulus relief checks quickly but that if you don't -- if the irs doesn't have your direct deposit information it could take up to 20 weeks to issue paper checks five months. i'm sure means more people will have to look to their 401(k)'s

righ right? >> the short answer is yes we serve 9.6 million retirement investors. thus far i would say they have showed tremendous restraint with respect to making changes to their asset allocation they typically stayed the course we found only about 1% of our customers have made changes to their portfolio which is just incredible given the market volatility i do believe given the unploim claims the last couple of week and given some of the actions that are being taken by the manufacturing retail and hospitality industries that we'll see distribution from 401(k) it's the last resort we would prefer they not exercise that option but in some indicatio indications people will need to. >> i thought it was interesting that on any given moment about 20% of people might have a loan

out against their 401(k) that was going into this crisis, right? >> that's correct. oftentimes people will take out loans for short term need and then they pay themselves back. they are tapping into that loan over a period of time. the challenge is people will need to pay bills. >> a lot of the bills we're talk about are the essential monthly expenses they include rent, utilities m they might include a car payment, student loans on a number of those fronts the government is trying to give people relief. on the mortgage front. certainly on the student loan front. we know landlords are trying to work as well with tenants. would it be better off for people to try to get

documentation and consider not paying those bills knowing that it's understood that's not going to happen as opposed to tapping their 401(k), something that could be harming them substantially in the future as well >> absolutely. i think banks and landlords and general and other lending institutions are demonstrating a lot of flexibility and a willingness to work with individuals. if you think about where we are today in the market, the s&p is down 26% and ideally what you'd want to see for those that are continuing to employed is to use that payroll deduction one of the things we're finding very interesting is of the people that are making changes to saving rate, two-thirds are increasie ining their savin. it's their for retirement and i want a dollar cost average into

this market. if you're unemployed or furloughed you don't have that option i would suggest the last option should be tapping into the 401(k) oftentimes people will talk to their advisers we give people guidance over the phone. we take 25 to 40,000 phone calls a day. it's typically not about people to change their investment they are looking for reassurance and guidance into what they should do. >> at a time like this, it can do a lot to make sure you don't harm yourself in the long run. thanks for joining us. >> you bet >> ed murphy is the ceo of empower retirement we'll have more on president trump's claims that russia and saudi arabia have agreed to cut oil production as millions of americans are losing jobs, many are unable to pay the rent as the real estate market comes under pressure. who is left holding e thbag?

we'll talk about the fall out. we're back in two. machin at&t has connected us every day for over 100 years.

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. welcome back let's get the latest on the coronavirus. >> hello, good afternoon the global death toll has gone above 50,000 spain has suffered 10,000 deaths and the u.s. toll has risen above 5300 a new survey finds doctors are very concerned they don't have the tools they need to find the coronavirus outbreak 73% say they cannot test patients quickly more than three quarters think their hospitals or clinics do not have adequate supplies to help address some of those shortfalls, the federal

government is distributing masks and personal equipment supplies were seized earlier this week by the fbi's hording task force robert craft, the owner of the new england patriots has sent the plane to china to bring back respirator masks he's giving some so massachusetts and new york >> thanks. hospitals are overwhelmed with the number of coronavirus patients it's good to see you why couldn't they hold off on these cuts >> it's kind of the cruel irony of this pandemic that we're

seeing physician groups, hospital vs s have to cut back n non-urgent procedures. billings are way down despite this immense demand for emergency treatment for people with covid-19. the revenue streams have fallen off a cliff. that has meant that physician groups and hospitals have had to give front line health care workers who are treating people with coronavirus a pay cut or a benefit cut so their hospitals that have deferred salary payments there are physician groups that have cut off 401(k) contributions and paid time off and discretionary bonuses. they are seeing a cut to their compositio compensation >> it's not what we want as the public or what the hospital

wants. is there more money coming from the federal government or somewhere. >> we can't afford to have hospital closures and clinic closures as there's this immense urgent demand for people that want to get tested and people that need urgent treatment for coronavirus. there's been a lag and it's impacted a lot of these health systems. we'll see what happens in the coming weeks ofly, it doesn't seem like it's imminent that hospitals and other health systems will be able to resume those lucrative

but not necessarily urgent needed this week or tomorrow procedures that keep them afloat >> how hospitals across the country are fairing. those that have seen what happened in new york or washington state, were they able to better prepare to kind of either handle what could be an influx of coronavirus patients or just prepare for having to shut down these elective procedures and all of those sorts of things? >> i don't know that state by state i could give you a trend of who has been better prepared or worst prepared. we're seeing hospitals struggling to keep folks supplied with masks and other other personal protective equipment. we have seen the federal government take dramatic steps to scale up capacity in new york city and los angeles you have these hospital ships that president trump continues to talk about. we have field hospitals in new york city popping up

there does seem to be a lifeline capacity we're seeing shortage of vent lat ventilators and the new england patriots airline landing back on soil transporting masks. that was telling of the situation a lot of hospitals >> crisis or not, you can't call them new york pratriots. >> i'm from the west coast and the raiders have moved away. >> good to see you we appreciate it very much coronavirus fears have taken a huge toll on new york city real estate. we'll explore how bad it could get, next. san francisco is locked down, vcs, those who are back in start ups aren't immune to the layoffs. how silicon valley is dealing

with it. we're back with our breaking news coverage. stay with us

welcome back the big gains have mostly ev evapora evaporated the dow is down. the s&p 500 is up still about .4 to 2480. it was a big session for oil that's mostly moved stocks around on the close oil was up a little more than 23% it was just shy of its best day ever the wall street tweeting somewhat of a rebuttal to the story as well. >> listen, numbers are just hard to come up with. i'm looking at a citigroup note as we do that. got to hold that tweet and spike the oil prices you can get the oil 10 million barrels a day or even 15 but if demand is down 18 to 20 million

barrel a day, you're still over supplied and already over supplied world that's where it gets confusing, i think. let's be clear, we've got a tweet from the head of the texas oil commission -- the rail commission they control oil despite the name rail. they are saying just had great conversation with russia alexander novak. we normally compete but we talked about a 10 million barrel global supply cut. that's from texas. you've got to be clear with the language global supply cut. saw -- saudis want a fair deal this is not the saudis or russians taking ten million barrels day. this is opec taking maybe five or six

maybe and the united states slowing down can we do that i don't know we'll see if trump can convince the oil companies to do that tomorrow at the white house. >> true. they are all headed there. we have seen krucrude back after that tweet from texas. you told us just a moment ago about the nopec working its way -- not working its way but tabl e tabled in congress it's an aodd thing to see that texas is talking to russia >> we're turning into opec. >> that's kind of where i'm going. >> we got to come up with, they call it ropec with russia or people are calling it opec plus plus and the united states is the second plus. it's a four letter word for 40 years in the united states price, cartel, price controls. suddenly now we're like opec, can you help us out? this is what we talked about the

last, opec in december but we had no idea that was going to happen with all this stuff we're like, opec, what's going on the fact that the russians producer and the head of the texas rail commission are having conversations is all you need know about the state of the world and global energy markets. >> i think people who remember the gas lines from the 70s i remember you could only get a certain license plate number they're going to give away gas >> thank you for bringing us up to date. we appreciate it let o's move on the the rea estate market.

>> love the glasses. the first quarter numbers from manhattan are out today. i want to focus on the last two weeks of march that's all that matters now. the last week of march we had only two contracts above $4 million that traded. the last time we had that, back in 2009. now, one of those contracts traded for 40% below the asking price. the big headline today, what really matters is the inventory. new listings were down 85% from the same period a year ago the number of listings that were pulled from the market, that jumped by 68%. there were 400 listings pulled from the manhattan market in last two weeks of march. sellers have yanked everything off the market because right now there are no buyers. the big drop will be in april and may. those are the two busiest months for new york city real estate.

prices at the end of this could fall by 20, 25%, maybe more when we start to get trading in stomacher athe summer and fall. that's the market that 25%, 30% drop sales volume is falling for two years prior to this. that would be a big drop what we knead to drop as well is new development. in first quarter we saw prices for new development fall by 50%. we now have a 17-month supply. the state of new york given how critical it is to real estate, declared it an essential industry we can now have showings all we need is buyers. back to you. >> an essential industry stay right there for more on how coronavirus is

impacting new york's housing market, let's welcome in bess friedman i'm going to pick up on what robert said which is landlords aren't going to be able to make it through if this lasts for a couple more months, will they? >> i think it's a challenging time for every one i know there was mention, robert mentioned real estate being an essential service or business. you know, i'm not encouraging real estate professionals to go out there, particularly in new york city where it's very dense and show properties. i think that would be very irresponsib irresponsible. if they do have business that they are wrapping up they can meet an appraiser or do a walk through. very carefully keeping in mind all the social distancing. it's going to be a challenging environment for every one, professionally in new york and around the world people are struggling. the one plus side, the tale of two markets, i guess in the

hamptons, the rentals are gone everybody wants to rent a place there. agents were telling me they got calls from the long island expressway with people saying i want immediate occupancy and i'll pay whatever it is to get this house people wanted to get out of the city and go to a different place. >> robert, what would you add to that >> yeah, i want to ask you a broader question because when you talk to brokers this week and last week, they say new york is still a great city. it'sresilient. every one wants to live in new york but at what price at some point they will say enough is enough and the average price is still 1.8 million for an apartment twro do you think that structurally we'll see downward pressure on prices over the next few years >> i think -- listen, we have already as was mentioned it's a

bowers market. the first quarter ended up being very good. i think people will still want to live in new york. new york offers so much to people as you mention 9/11, after 9/11 it was very quiet until january and all that pent up demand burst on the scenes and the market roared. i think that will happen again and people will want to live here tourism in 2018 was something like 65 million people visited new york city. this is place that people want to be. we can't give up on her. just because we're going through a tough time >> on that note, let me ask you, say there's someone who thought with prices down with the market challenged, i've been waiting to buy. maybe this is my once in a generation chance to afford something in new york. say they took a flier. i see the listing. can that move forward or not >> certainly

in fact, we can do that when it has to do with condos. it's easier and you can do everything virtually and agents are figuring stuff out like that yes, you can do that it is an opportunity market. i think if people are willing to, you get a great rate right noi, you can take advantage of this i really think so. >> we'll leave it there. thanks to both of you. we appreciate it good luck. it's going be a tough couple of months for everybody silicon valley deal making is on hold kate rooney is here with the details out west >> start ups are in what investors are calling survivor mode in order to make it through months with no revenue, they are cutting their work force to the tune of 4,000 people in rekrecet weeks. rover cutting staff.

trip action laying off workers a few factors contributing to pressure on start ups. venture capital and private equity backed small businesses aren't eligible for government emergency loans. the investors they once relied on are tightening their belts making it harder to tap them for things like help with payroll. layoffs are a double whammy for employees. they have 90 days to exercise their equity options and they need to come up with that cash their equity may be a lot less in this environment. on top ofthat they are being fired while working from home. i spoke to one bird employee who was laid off last week she tells me it was a complete shock. they got a normal calendar invite labeled covid update but it turn toed out to a mass firi across departments

they said it was inhumane. >> they said it was an automated message that if you're listening to this, you've been laid off. pretty brutal. >> she said it sounded like an automated message and it was only about two minutes long. >> oh, man thank you for bringing that to us we appreciate it professional sports are cancelled for the foreseeable future how are owners trying to hang onto their teams as revenue dries up we'll explore that it more affor. it more affor. that's why we're keeping our tuition the same for all online and campus programs through the year 2021. - [woman] i knew snhu was the place for me when i saw how affordable it was. i ran to my husband with my computer and i said, "look we can do this!" - [narrator] take advantage of some of the lowest online tuition rates in the nation. find your degree at snhu.edu.

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you can stream music and you can answer phone calls. the audiologist was so incredible she's full of all kinds of little helpful hints i love it. they're a game changer for me. i feel like i can take on anything. it feels great to be in control of my hearing. better hearing has never been this easy. try lively risk-free for 100 days. visit listenlively.com welcome back professional sports remain shut down franchise owners are left holding the bag. there's creative tactics they are using to hold onto their

teams. >> it's one thing you have the teams that are not playing right now and we know what that is all about. a lot of these owners have these other business interests you can consider, for example, i don't want to name names but there's a lot of ownerscasinos,n arena concessions. they own cruise lines. those businesses are really taking it hard right now it could mean that ordinary reason and prudence need to raise capital because they can't afford either of their sports teams or their real businesses they are trying to avoid selling their teams. a lot of owners are looking at creative financing trying to get some sort of loan, something where they can hold onto their ownership because they don't want the give away those stakes. bankers say teams are not for sale now teams could be for sale if the shut down lingers. there's the rich owners and the

not so rich owners they have high leverage and money losing team. there's no deal flow yet but bankers say the weakest of these owners are probably going to get washed out if this continues for a few more months. back to you. >> stay right there. let's bring in george pine to the conversation he's the founder of bruin sports capital. >> if people lose liquidity, it's going to impact their other business interest which could be prosports team if the owner is in these other industries that are hard hit, and they have liquidity issues, that's going to impact the situation. eric, you're exactly correct >> george, let me ask you

because i think we are assuming the owners would have to sell their team to come up with cash for their other companies rr personal lives do they have to put money into the teams, into the athletes, into the stadiums and if they don't have that capital available, what would that consequence look like? >> that's the difficult situation. no question. al right now you have an interesting dynamic with season ticket renewals which are being adjusted as well people buying season tickets for next year corporate sales. your cash flow will be tight if your team owner and depending on where the tv revenue is, you could find yourself in the cash crunch and those owners rr teams that might be losing money and that are facing head winds in other industries, it does present a difficult situation, no question. >> same question to you. i'm curious what you're hearing about the major fall season where obviously every one had been assuming the football would

kind of start the return of normalcy but maybe not so much >> we knew basketball and hockey were on the hook right now and it was what happened to the basketball season. now we're starting to see what happens to the football season for college programs that's the big money this investments where they were landlords, had all these other developments a lot of these guys have a lot of real estate leverage in addition to outside their businesses so that's going to be a trend to watch it's not just team, but it's these other actual land use properties but if you have football questions, george is the guy. >> george, you have a son headed to notre dame in the fall to play football. what is he hearing >> i think it's all systems go from an athlete's standpoint you're prepare iing every day.

running, lifting every day, trying to get ready for the season no question. and hopefully, that will be resolved before the fall of course the true answer is nobody knows and these decisions we make by the health care professionals. certainly we're all hoping to have sports back in the fall u >> so a final question, george, do you think there might be any, t not like we're going to know if some of these teams are sold. what about the smaller interests? do you think this is going to trigger a bunch of turnover or does it depend on how long this goes on? >> i think it depends on how long it goes however, i'll tell you, people are going toffoli quid fi issues so within the eco some of sport, they're going to be used for liquidity and there's going to be dislocation and there are going to be changes and the severity of those are going to depend on how long the delay is. so if we don't, if it's three or four month, i think it's one set of circumstances six, nine, 12 or 18 months,

you're looking at a very difficult and different situation. >> absolutely. same goes for everybody else, too. guy, thanks. george and eric. markets are higher today, but paring gains dow u and s&p are slightly tisive nasdaq, russell, negative. we'll talk about where to p put your money to work, next yes. the first word to any adventure. but when allergies and congestion strike, take allegra-d... a non-drowsy antihistamine plus a powerful decongestant. so you can always say "yes" to putting your true colors on display. say "yes" to allegra-d.

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the dow's trying to hang on to a gain. just got news from the congressional budget office. they're downgrading their forecast for the economy saying they expect a sharp contraction during the second quarter. they're estimating a more than 7% decline the annualized rate would then exceed 28% they mention the declines could be much larger

they see the unemployment rate exceeding 10% in the second quarter and still expect interest rates to remain below 1% so summing up this state of things as we kick off second xwaurt and sandy is partner and portfolio manager -- they join me now not a ton of time, so sandy, where do you think investors are safe putting capital to work these days >> names like clorox and defensive names have been picked overment i'd ra i'd rather go with strong growth names that are trading at reasonable prices and put money to work in those names >> so some examples might be >> we love a economy called e health a company called teleflex. very strong balance sheet. they make ventilators. this particular moment and pure play medical device company and

we love a company called sterus that's going to do pretty well looking au ining at the next tw three e years. >> would you be looking at health care? >> absolutely. i think health care fits into a hybrid bucket of both growth and defensive play even with health care being the best performer since we reached the peak of the market to this decline. long-term secular growth, i would also add -- peaked at over 85%. we think this is the time to be very selective >> any one example you could

give in term of communication services >> communication services has a lot of examples. obviously within the, the media space, there's been a disproportionate sell off so some of the new guys are doing better look at netflix versus disney. price performance and you have similar businesses to a certain extent we're pretty active across the board. i would add consumer discretionaries across the board. we're doing most of our shopping online these days so these trends are gononly going to accelerate streaming, consumer spending online and others within the communication. think of how you and i are communicating now. that's not going away. >> i was thinking are you using a uv light on those packages putting your mail in the oven? the things people are doing to

make sure their deliveries are safe craig callahan typically favored larger companies he said when he screens the market, to hhim, small and mid p value jumps out. is there anything in terms of seeing deep value that has your attention this that segment of the market here, too >> anytime you look yesterday, the russell 2000 was down 7% it underperformed by maybe service as 10% so as you lead into a recession and i think these things are getting compressed to where we might be going to a recession quickly and the market's discounting since it's forward look iing, but i think a a lot the value is in small cap that's underperformed it leads coming out of a recession. i think there's lot of tup opportunities and people will see a will the of dislocations and that's where opportunities are and where money is really made over the long run >> when is the last time that part of the market led >> i guess i'd having to go back

four or five years tosee where that, where it really did. we had a actually two year run where small caps did extremely well and i think, i think as we come out of this rerecession, it depends on where you think the number of cases are peaking. if you can be very careful and buy these names that are come ploetly dislocated, you're going to look smart when we talk about this about a year from now >> it's just like you said, might be a rough ride. how are you disinfecting mail? >> it's kind of funny. we're here in new orleans so we're kind of in the epicenter our cases are supposed to peak around april 15th. we take our amazon packages and put them next to the barbecue pit and let them bake in the sun then e we take them in >> not a bad idea. as our temperatures warm up, i'm going to keep that many mind got a grill handy?

>> i don't but i have a garage, so that works as well. >> thank you both. thanks so much for tuning in this hour as we continue to watch these markets try to hold on to their gains. our breaking news coverage in the last hour of the trading day. and welcome, everyone. i'm here with wilfred, stocks are giving up a sizable rally, though still holding torn to decent gains one hour left in another volatile trading session let's look at what's driving the action now initial jobless claims surging to a record 6.6 million last week jobless claims over the past tw weeks totalling around 10 million. oil seeing a rebound after president trump told cnbc he expected saudi arabia and russia to announce a big production cut. and the virus itself remains front and center u.s. cases topping 220,000 far