january, china's daily report had no new deaths. it is april 7, 2020. "squawk box" begins right now. good morning i'm becky quick. the dow was up sharply yesterday. it rose 1,600 points showing a low in the numbers markets up sharply the dow was up s&p up by 7% nasdaq up 7.3% if you check that out, we are seeing green arrows again. yesterday, boeing was the best performer up 19% trading higher pre-market despite the announcement yesterday, it's temporarily

suspending production in south carolina green arrows across the board. the dow will open about 600 points also looking at the green on the nasdaq and s&p 500 if you take a look at what is happening in the treasury as well s&p indicated up 72 points in the treasury, you'll also see what is happening on the yield in that front. it is the 10-year that is yielding closely at 7.04%. let's get everybody updated on the latest on the pandemic numbers. nearly 11,000 people in the u.s. have died from covid-19. the country has more than 361,000 cases. new york has 131,000 of those cases. new jersey reaching a grim milestone with more than 1,000

deaths in the state. overseas, we have positive numbers from italy that reports its lowest daily number of new cases since march 17 spain reporting its lowest number since march 22nd. the second time since january, china reported no new coronavirus deaths reporting 30 new asymptomatic cases and two with symptoms. president trump has struck a deal to buy millions of face masks from 3m. after he had told them to stop selling those masks overseas they'll be importing millions

primary from their factories in china. uk prime minister boris johnson transferred to intensive care yesterday after his condition worsened a member of his cabinet said he had received oxygen support but wasn't on a ventilator the secretary there appointed to take over in case needed joe, how are you >> doing okay. let's get to eamon i like to see his rosie cheeks every morning. the shift has been rapid, just as rapid as the outbreak we are seeing a sharp drop from three weeks ago according to the cnbc change research states of play survey. i didn't know we had one of

those. but i'm interested in the results. >> that is right this is a poll of battleground states look at the way people's optimism has flipped take a look at this graphic. in march, 53% said that was good now that is just 40% 60% says it good and not poor. it is totally flipped as the entire nation is shocked it is not rolling throughout the economy. different states have different perspectives twice as many people in north carolina saying it is better than expected. different numbers in north carolina and florida and michigan i guarantee you, the presidential campaigns will look through all this data to see

which battleground states will be impacted. two other did bits i saw donald trump's performance review slightly more disapproved been approved of him support for social distancing is overwhelming across both parties. democrats are nearly unanimous for support. republicans overwhelmingly support social distancing in the 80% range. there are 10% of republicans who oppose the idea. don't think it is smart. you are seeing a variation there. it is overwhelming national support from both parties for social distancing. back to you. >> that makes sense, eamon

the numbers are now have appointments on tv you know when governor cuomo comes on i hang on to his words the best is the icu cases. it is never going to be easy for our health care people but it could be worse i watch that i wash tch it all i watch something all day long it was sunny yesterday, which is crazy in april i don't know whether you got out. beautiful in washington i hear too. it is surreal. you go out and everything looks

normal and bright and sunny and then you might see someone and you are like, whoa, don't want to get near them it is surreal. >> it reminds me, joe, a little bit of september 11. the day itself that was a geororgeous day. i had the same thought on that day as now you have this spectacular display by another nature during this horrific event for humanity it is jarring. our lived experience for the moment can be so different from what is going on around the world. >> it is that same mother nature that came up with that virus >> that's true >> at this point she giveth and taketh away. becky, what's up >> i have a question for eamon when you hear the news out of

new york that the numbers seem to be coming down. the number of hospitalizations are coming down. that a great news. you hear that and try to put it up against the thought of when those close. the governor in washington, d.c. said they closed the schooler fought the remainder of the year, that is in june. and when we might actually see the are urn to normal and what that means if this is working, people are going to feel like, okay, great can we get back to normal now? what is the new normal and how they are thinking about all of this >> i think they are going day by day. the vice president is asked when is he going to make a decision about whether to extend the 30-day lockdown and they'll have to look at the science

ultimately what you see in new york, those numbers were encouraging you are also looking at different numbers. reading out a list of cities that are getting worse and not better the list was as long as your rarm it was a half dozen major cities headed for something e. hopefully not as bad as new york you get the sense that new york is the first ahead of these. that has implications for national policies. the other question is, is this happening in new york because of the lockdown what does that mean for the idea of taking the lockdown off do you let go of that strangle

hold dr. scott gottlieb yesterday was pretty persuasive that we are going to be living with this thing for some time well into the fall we have to find some way to have daily life come back even while coronavirus exists that is a really difficult decision. thank you. we all sort of start here. we'll check in with you a little later this morning when we come back, we are going to talk about what a return to normal could look like for the economy and daily life dr. scott gottlieb will join us next take a look at the biggest pre-market gainers in the dow.

the dow up sharply even after the gain in the pre-markets. "squawk box" will be back after a quick break. yes. it's the first word of any new discovery. but when allergies attack, the excitement fades. allegra helps you say yes with the fastest non-drowsy

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welcome back amazon is cracking down on people and its warehouses who violate social distancing policies the company started notifying employees that they could face disciplinary action. a spokesperson confirming the first violations could come in a warning and the second warning could get them fired we heard from waste management that the hardest thing there is trying to convince employees to social distance. different people experience this differently. you say, joe, you see a neighbor and you run away and you feel a little bad becauses it so

anti-social and you don't want them to feel like you are shunning them but it is kind of the weird world we live in now >> kind of the way i've always acted, beck. now, i don't have to think about it >> i was going to mention, in the instance of amazon and not to becynical about it but because i did reporting about it and we had chris smalls on last year there was that employee last week that was fired from the company. the company said he was not social distancing. other people believe, you saw some notes afterwards, internal notes about trying to shut him down and shut him up you could look at that memo and also argue that both may very well be about the company but how they are approaching that lawsuit and others as a result

of employees who get fired or pushed out just having looked at that, they look connected as opposed to independent notes >> a couple of other bits of news air nb with strategic investment the ceo said, the desire to connect and travel is an enduring truth but the way this man ifest will evolve as the world changes, we'll see a new flexibility in how people live and work means they won't have to be tethered

to one location. a $1 billion relief fund which will help their super hosts pay rent or mortgages. if you remember, back in early march, they had lowered investment according to two sources, the company plans to go public still in 2020. something to keep our eyes on given that that is a business hard hit by all of this. >> even worse, andrew. even worse than just your normal hotel that you would hope would get scrubbed down. >> i have never been thrilled of

going to sleep in someone else's bed or even someone else sleeping in my bed it is interesting to see whether people end up being more increased to go to air bnb or hotel. soupd $like you would be more inclined to go to a hotel. others who would be more inclined to go to an air bnb because they want to be in less intensity. >> i'd be more inclined to go nowhere. >> i don't know, if you told me the hotel was going to be clean, clean, clean and they have services there that's where i'd be inclined to go i don't know >> how about the christmas vacation rv.

cousin eddie's rv. people will be driving i don't feel like driving 16 hours. that will be more common then, you might as well take your car with you. >> i always wanted an airstream, joe. this could be my moment. >> i see you one of those that has the thing when you park, they pull out and expand the things. you've got the big screen. that's how i see you >> thanks. i'll take it i've never done the full cross country road trip. >> it is bad we tried it on a squawk tour you might recall mark pretended he was on the rv and we were in

the back like this just sick to his stomach. >> i thought he was driving. i thought he didn't like to fly. >> he didn't like to fly if it was too far, he would fly. he was not in the rv with us the trash builds up. the beer bottles or soda, whatever it happens to be. we better go that was a long time ago but i've done it >> a lot more ahead. we do have the futures they do look like they are in the green. right now, the dow looks like it would open about 860 points, nasdaq 220 points and s&p 500 up as well. two weeks after saying hell is

coming, ackman's new moves some images of the pandemic impact yesterday across america. there are times when our need to connect really matters. to keep customers and employees in the know. to keep business moving. comcast business is prepared for times like these. powered by the nation's largest gig-speed network. to help give you the speed, reliability, and security you need. tools to manage your business from any device, anywhere. and a team of experts - here for you 24/7. we've always believed in the power of working together. that's why, when every connection counts... you can count on us.

welcome back just over two weeks ago, hedge fund manager bill ackman said hell was yet to come the ceo publishing the 2019 annual report last night last year, saw an annual return of 58.1% p pershing square's highest return a couple of challenged years in between. in the record, pershing square

announced a buy back of $100 billion shares after a health play that began in early march and fully exited and ackman has been reinvesting capital he said he has increased stakes in agilent by 16%. berkshire hathaway by 39%. hilton by 34%. hues by 36%. lowes 46% and restaurant brands. and reestablishing capital position of 10% in starbucks saying we believe the factors for a stock market recovery are coming into view the fund is up 3.3% up in a market we all know so well that

is down. over to you. >> we might have seen some better market action 600 points yesterday, 900 today, so bill is sniffing something out there. that's good. if we had been down somewhere, we may be checking futures more than now coming up, more on yesterday's rally with the major indices up seven. the dow up eight this morning up over 800 a look at yesterday's s&p 500 winners and losers at&t has connected us every day for over 100 years.

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if you want to get to pre-coronavirus, that might never happen but i do believe with the therapies that will be coming on line and i feel confident we'll get a good vaccine that we'll never get back to where we are right now if that means getting back to normal, then we are back to normal >> that was dr. fauci speaking yesterday for more on what life after this outbreak could look like let's bring in dr. scott

gottlieb, former fda commissioner dr. gottlieb, this sounded similar to what you were telling us yesterday on the show the idea that we are going to get back to normal eventually but it will be a new normal. what does that look like >> it depends. if we get through the summer we are likely to have the epidemic run april and may, dissipate in june through august in the fall, we are likely to have outbreaks again it is unclear whether we are ever going to get to a point where there is not hundreds of thousands of cases a day when we get to the summer, you'll still have cases and small outbreaks that are manageable the fall is a real risk. this is an epidemic and will probably come back here. we are seeing a lot of

improvement in the models right now. especially the northeast the southeast is a little suspend there is improvement we need to transition now to some point in may where you start to isolate and target individuals with the infection that will be a lot of work we'll be prepared to do it, hopefully much better prepared it will be hard. >> the governor in washington canceled school for the rest of the year through june. if social distancing is what is working, do you think our kids are going back to school in the fall >> probably. i think we'll try to open schools and residential colleges in the fall. i think you'll see potential for outbreaks that will close individual districts it shouldn't close like this again. i'm putting out a detailed paper

today with some other folks outlining what that system will look like. that's attainable. the question is, do we have one or two they arapeutics. we need to figure out what drugs are likely to work out the best and likely to work out in time in the fall and we'll move those through developments that list is not very long that is likely attainable and rebust enour robust enough to make a difference and then we have to put everything we can behind those products to move them through. >> hi, doctor. in this case, take your doctor hat off. we often talk to you about health issues so investors can make decisions you are also an investor and business person yourself one of the things that has

happened is we've gotten better news about the curve and where things stand and that investors have pushed the stock market up because of expectation things will get back to normal. you've talked about things being a new normal or different normal when you look at things in terms of how investors are looking at the market do you think that they are including the kind of information they are talking about and expectations about what that new normal looks like and that kind of time line >> that really depends if we have in place by august, a broad surveillance system of protecting outbreaks, which we should have. someone needs to drive that forward at the state and local level and get one or two therapeutics that will have an impact if they have that tool box, this

becomes manageable if we don't have that, we will live life with this in the background we are looking at 80% of the economy, which is that certain things don't come back i think we'll get the technology but we only have about four months to do it. these are not going to be easy to get in place in that time frame but i think we'll get it >> when we look at the stock market now, do you say to yourself this makes sense? it should be going up higher or lower. you are in the business too. that's why i wanted to ask your thoughts >> that's true clearly this is painful and a lot of p emare out of work and some of these jobs won't come back easily. a lot of these will indicate that this is going to run its

course and show a lot of improvement. if that's where the markets should be, then i think the markets are reacting appropriately. this is showing improvement. the models are showing better. texas and georgia are likely understated but showing improvement. pricing in the fact that there is risk. this will circulate through the fall and wenter. you have to harken back to the days of small pox and polio and measles. that became a drag on certain activities that is a possibility here you have to handicap against the possibility that we get a drug and surveillance system. that's not 100%. if i was to handicap that probably 50/50 i'm optimistic i think we will get a drug but

it is not 100% >> i wanted to ask you what you mentioned. texas and georgia, they just said in those states and others, that the hospitalizations, the percent of cases that needed to be hospitalized is higher than 10%, which is really the norm that suggests in those cases they have more cases that are not being detected or maybe not tested what does that mean for the rest of the country does that mean the entire country will have to stay at home and have these orders otherwise you have the risk of cross contaminating? >> not really. a lot of the state that have these epidemics have the stay at home order in place.

i think the summer travel will bounce back. you'll see regions come out maybe two or three weeks behind. new york will release sooner with texas and georgia, they are both testing not enough. they are testing about .20%. they are in the bottom 5% of all states in terms of the amount of testing they are doing they have a lot of hospitalizations hospitalizations numbers are more reliable. when you see a lot of hospitalizations but not a lot of people testing positive, it is an indication they are undertesting louisiana looks problematic. nonetheless, the national trend is clear

with err seei we are seeing across the board improvement and probably some states that are late to testing or not testing enough. >> thank you we always look forward to talking to you thank you. when we come back, we'll hear from the ceo of new jersey's largest health network. check out the futures this morning, which are higher even after the gains we saw yesterday. yesterday, the dow was up by 1,600 points this morning, the dow is up another 725 points nasdaq indicated up 1975 points, the s&p indicated up as well we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "squawk box" this morning looking at equity futures. we are about three hours away from the opening bell. dow up about 738, the s&p up by 75 and the nasdaq up about 195 talking about yesterday's rally and what may come today. mike santoli joins us now. i have to tell you, this would be a change in character since this whole selloff started we have had several days with an up day in the s&p. the next day, all but one day a pretty good decline.

this is the flip side of no real fundamentals to latch on to. the market responds to it self and ceases to respond. we got very oversold the economy at least for the moment, that is what the market was responding to. i think the market trade is technical. at this moment, i think it is rushing to its next test we were rushing about 2,700 where everybody said, okay, sure, we have room to rally. that's when the decline in march became a free fall around that 2,700 level. we'll see if the market can isolate those levels as an

overshoot to the down side raising one more thing to look out for overtime is near 2,800 s&p, that is about half of the total losses that would be regained that would be a stiff test are we repricing our expectations to a degree where any hint that comes along that we are not that close to getting out. maybe we overanticipate things betting better that's the push/pull we have to be aware of. >> but mike, you've seen this again and again and again. don't you think the market consistently educates people that use coincident indicators or their own perception of what is going to happen and makes you think the market just must be

wrong the collective wisdom teaches people again and again and again that usually, it can sniff out something long before somebody else sniffs it out. the one thing that can happen again and again with big breaks that look with their hand in front of their face and say this can't possibly be happening. by the time they consider that could even be wrong, it's up 2,000, 4,000 points. it never gave you the chance to get in because you were looking at what is in front of your face thinking you are smarter it teaches them again and again. >> that is true. that doesn't look at the market's ability -- >> on the down side and the

upside -- >> and how many rallies could we have on the nasdaq >> mike, what was the s&p doing at 666 in 2008 for no other reason than a complete overshoot by the time you shout the world is not ending, it was back getting to jeff, he manages money for a living and might know something >> yes get to him >> let's hear what he has to say. our next guest says the market lows are in. he believes the bottom is in joining us now on skype is jeff saut chief investment strategist at capital wealth good morning you were just listening to this conversation mike was having

with joe there you think the bottom is in, it is not going backwards from here >> well, people will listen to the market there is a dow signal in november of 2007 we wrote about it and told people to raise cash it was saying the best had been seen and discounted. on march of 2009, there was a d dow theory signal. we buy blue chip stocks and tactically sell out of the money short-term calls and try to generate 5% to 7% taxable returns. we have about 65% downside capture. for somebody that is 70, which is how old i am, it is a perfect strategy as for the stock market, folks,

i was on in mid-january saying our short-term model had a sell signal and you ought to sell your trading positions and raise cash i raised 30% cash. it wasn't enough i didn't think the decline would be this bad. last week, our models turned positive again the bottom is in you had eight 90% down side days meaning 90% of the down side came in on the upside. 90% of the plus ticks came in on the minus side 90% of the volume came in on the upside followed by two 80%

upside days. that's the way bottoms are made. i think the bottom is in at 2,191 on march 3 i think we are going up from here i don't know if we are going straight up because of the damage that has been done but if there is a cure for the virus or a vaccine for the virus, those lows are not going to be retested like everybody thinks >> right so let me ask you this, a lot of people have been hopefully nibbling back in the market in the past week or two some people have some cash or a lot of cash who think there is going to be a retest of the lows, maybe not. what do you see as the upside at this point if you believe the bottom is in relative to the down side. maybe there is zero percent if we don't think we are going any

lower. >> i think the upside will be between 3,400 to 3,600 one of the best out there that has covered their shorts and going long on stocks like amaz amazon, i can't think of the name of the food stock and they've been more right on this market than anybody else and i would place bets with them and with capital wealth management if you're looking for a risk averse money manager, we a're i >> jeff, that is so -- to someone that is worried about re-opening the economy, and we all are, and we don't know how it's going to happen and we don't even -- you know, we hear horror stories about what the new new normal, whatever you want to call it, is going to look like, did you just say 3400

to 3600 on the s&p that is so outrageously outlandish to someone who's going to keep pressing the case that we're never getting reopened that it almost sounds crazy. what is that, that's up -- what is that up 40% from where we are here -- what is that from where we are on the s&p right now? >> it's from where we were and i've been hearing the new normal from the folks at pimco for, what, five, six, seven years and they've been totally wrong absolutely, totally wrong. it's not different -- >> but this new normal -- this new normal really is a crazy, scary new normal where we all have masks on and where it comes back in the fall and where no one goes to arenas for sporting events and where movie theaters go out of business because we never have people sitting close together anymore this is a new normal

technically to forecast 34 to 3600, i have an affinity for thinking things are going to be better, that we're way too pessimistic but that gets us all i watt back to where we were and puts in new highs, new all-time highs for the s&p by the end of the year. >> yeah. yeah, i think that's right the earnings are going to take a hit here in the quarter, but i think they're going to come in pretty strong in the back half of the year. i think there's a huge pent up demand i know that cheryl and i go out to lunch every day and go up to the restaurants in downtown st. pete every day are restaurant depressed and the minute the restaurants are re-opened we're going to be flocking to the restaurants. i think there's a lot of other people that are going to be doing that as well so as long as this virus doesn't shut down the economy and my friends at the cdc -- i lived in

atlanta for two years. i have pretty good contacts at the cdc -- tell me that the peak is in and that we're going to be past the peak by the end of this month. if that's true, folks, we're not going back down and retesting the lows >> jeff, just so i understand. the one thing i just want to understand about your sort of theory of the case here is your expectation, therefore, is that you're on an airplane come this summer, come this fall, that everything is back to -- got to be at least 100% if not better to get to the numbers you're talking about or not >> there's huge pent-up demand and i do think by the end of summer that there will be, you know, normalcy i don't think it's going to happen by may, june. i think it's going to take time. people are not going to want to go into restaurants -- go ahead. >> no, no, but, jeff, i think

the big -- jeff, in terms of the time line, the singular question that people ask is when are people going to genuinely be on airplanes, where the airplane is going to have 80, 90% of its seats full, both for business travel, vacation travel. it, therefore, affects the hotels it, therefore, affects the restaurants. it, therefore, affects the retail i mean, you can see the entire chain. so i'm trying to understand. your expectation is that come september 1st all of that is back as if we were in a time machine and we were in february? >> yeah. i think it's going to be by the fourth quarter of this year. >> by the fourth quarter of this year okay jeff, we appreciate your time, your perspective boy, do i hope you're right. boy, do i hope you're right. >> you and me both. >> we'll come back right after this two more huge hours ahead on "squawk box" including an interview with slack's ceo, stew

wart but t stewart butterfield. a lot more teams moving to t. just raised some money as well plus, we're talking to the labor secretary about the huge jobless claims and the state of jobs during all of this you don't want to miss that special interview. we have more market coverage on "squawk box" right after this. i know that every single time that i suit up, there is a chance that that's the last time. 300 miles an hour, thats where i feel normal. i might be crazy but i'm not stupid. having an annuity tells me that i'm protected. during turbulent times, consider protected lifetime income from an annuity as part of your retirement plan.

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breaking news. futures pointing to a sharply higher open following yesterday's big market rally. washington watch white house officials and congressional leaders are talking about another stimulus package. plus, a global pandemic. the u.k.'s coronavirus crisis taking a dramatic turn after prime minister boris johnson ends up in intensive care. the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now good morning, everybody. welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. futures, big gains for the market the dow was up by 1600 points. that was a gain of 7.75% this morning the futures are building on those gains. check it out, the dow is indicated to open up by 830 points on top of those gains, s&p is

indicated to open up by 87 points after it gained 175 points yesterday for a gain of 7% and then the nasdaq is indicated up by about 226. also, take a look at what's been happening in the treasury market the yields have been higher there. and if you're checking out the ten year note, you're going to see that the yield looks like it's about 0.745%. that's the latest read that i saw. joe? >> thanks, beck. we continue to track the coronavirus crisis in the u.s. as a society right? here, too, as well new jersey hit a grim milestone yesterday as the number of covid-19 deaths passed 1,000 for more on the battle against the virus, let's welcome robert garrett, ceo of hackensack meridian health. new jersey's largest health network which includes 17 hospitals. is it -- it's dr. garrett, sir >> no, bob garrett's fine, joe thank you. good morning

>> good morning. how's the system holding up? out of the 17, i'm sure it's -- would you characterize it as bursting at the seams yet but still under control or under control or just chaos? how would you characterize it? i know there's 17 different hospitals we're talking about. >> yeah. i would characterize it as we're getting close to full capacity we've seen 4,000 positive covid-19 cases out of those 4,000, many of them were hospitalized and 40% of all hospitalized patients end up in the icu and 80% of those in the icu end up on a ventilator what we've done is expanded capacity the department of health in new jersey under governor murphy's leadership has asked us to double our icu capacity. we've done that at each of our

17 hospitals as a matter of fact at hackensack hospital, we've tripled our icu capacity and we've converted an entire cafeteria into a patient care unit getting 7 2 beds. our supply line continues to hold it's been very, very tight we've had to source equipment and supplies literally from around the world we're very grateful. we've received over 200 ventilators from the national stockpile which has helped we've had staff, reassigning staff to critical areas. we've called up retired doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists and others and we've had to use agency nurses that we've had to source from around the country i would say we're holding our own. we are certainly encouraged that there seems to be a little bit

of early light at the end of the tunnel in that that curve that everybody's been talking about is -- it looks like it's starting to flatten. the number of new cases each day were in the double digits. they were about 35% increase every 24 hours about a week ago. these last few days they've been in the single digits so we're hoping. we're not getting too happy quite yet, but we're hoping that we're starting to see that top of the curve >> bob, is new jersey on the same path, you would say, as new york city or just slightly behind new york city you're seeing the same type of positive trends very early that new york is? or is new jersey -- i had the perception it was just behind new york by a couple of days are we splitting hairs too finely here? >> no, i think you're absolutely

correct, joe i would say it's the northern part of the state of new jersey is probably just a couple days behind new york. very, very close to new york city and as you go further south in new jersey it's probably more like days and maybe even a week behind where new york is but we're -- you know, we're encouraged there's more testing going on than there was at the beginning. we're doing a lot of testing at hackensack meridian health we're prioritizing our health care workers as well as in patients i want to give a special shout out to our front line team members, the doctors, the nurses, the therapists that are on those front lines they truly are -- >> bob, i think we lost some audio there from mr. garrett, but i can finish that sentiment

and just every single time we talk with someone we need to just marvell at the courage and the resolve of people. their soul purpose really in life, i think, bob, their sole purpose in life is helping people without really considering their own health which i'm awed at every day. robert garrett, ceo of hackensack meridian health i know -- that's where it's headquartered, becky you're pretty close to hackensack you have a good idea of that area so the northern new jersey kind of almost mirroring new york but showing some positive signs and then maybe a little bit behind all in all, i don't know, is it too early to hope that we never -- that none of our states swamp the ventilators? that's what we've all been worried about all along. that would be a big relief if we

knew that everyone who needed one would be able to get one if we bend the curve enough >> yeah. you know, joe, the thing that i think it really says to me is that social distancing is working. so all these sacrifices that people are making by staying home i think are paying off and, again, our incredible thanks to the health care workers who are continuing to go on the front lines of all of this social distancing works. >> incredible. >> stay home and let's see how we can play this out. joe, i want to bring you up to date with some breaking news that just came out while you were speaking with bob exxon mobil coming out with some news we knew they were going to be looking at cutting expenses and now we have numbers to put around that. the company said it's going to be cutting its 2020 cap exspending by 30%. it had been expected to spend $33 billion and now it will spend close to $23 billion it will cut its cash operating expenses by 15% in response to

what we've seen with oil prices. kind of the bottom fall out with oil prices on all of this. they say that the long-term fundamentals, this is darren woods. he's going to be joining us in 25 minutes' time he'll be speaking with us here first on cnbc. he says though that the long-term fundamentals that underpin the company's business plans haven't changed. they say population and energy demand will grow and the economy will rebound their capital allocations remain unchanged. their objective is to continue investing it in industry advantage projects to promote the dividends. they're not cutting the dividends. it's a high yield. to make appropriate and prudent use of their balance sheet we'll get the chance to talk through all of this with darren woods coming up in 25 minutes' time joe? andrew >> i'm going to take it, beck. we are going to talk a little washington news right now.

the federal payroll protection program is now up and running. small businesses around the country are reaching out for a life line. i want to get to kate rogers who joins us with some numbers now on how it's going. kate, over to you. >> reporter: hi, andrew. good morning as of late last night the administration told cnbc that 175,000 loans had been assigned an sba loan number from the etran system for a value of $50 billion. that's just one step in this long process a senior administration official told us that disbursement amounts won't be made available for some time. yesterday we heard from businesses in many different phases of the process, some being turned away from banks, some in ques some told us their sba loans were approved and given the loan numbers but the banks wouldn't disburse the funds until more guidance was given to them from the sba.

they said the etran system went down which the administration then denied. beyond just the ppp rollout, small business owners are increasingly losing optimism the nfib is out with the sentiment showing a drop of 8.1 in march to 96.4 the group's chief economist saying in a statement, it is vital that these businesses have access to federal funds that are made available through the c.a.r.e.s. act to keep the doors open on main street. beyond that, the group says 92% of small businesses and its memberships say they've been negatively impacted by the coronavirus pandemic and what's more and even more dire is that more than half of small businesses they surveyed said they can survive for no more than two months if the situation stays the same becky, back over to you. >> that's pretty stunning numbers. kate, thank you very much. for more on the relief packages that are coming up, the pain people are feeling home, we

are joined by congressman josh gottheimer. >> good? more >> okay. i think he can hear me and i think i can hear you. >> how are you >> congressman >> how are you doing >> good. pretty good. obviously you're my congressman so i know pretty well what the district here looks like to lay it out for people, we are in three weeks of lockdown here and of businesses for the most part being shuttered, those that aren't essential businesses at least. you may have heard the numbers that kate rogers was just referencing, but she's heard that -- from the sba that more than half of their businesses -- small businesses say that they could only hold on for about two months before they really go under. what are you hearing right now from constituencies? what are you hearing about these loans and this relief and how quickly it can get to those businesses >> in northern new jersey we've

been hit so hard 41,000 cases in the state and 20% in my district in northern new jersey we've been shut down for weeks and it's really hard on small businesses it's working we're flattening the curve and i think that's what we really should focus on, but i hear every day and speak every day to small businesses and frankly businesses of all sizes that are really hurting i think the ppp program, the loan forgiveness program is going to help. it will give people optimism, but there's a longs wait and so we're all working together to get those dollars out the door >> what do you think when you are faced with the reality of the number of cases in your district and the real health concerns, the real worries that people have about that and then the pressure from small businesses who are also feeling so much economic pain? how do you balance those two out? it looks like social distancing is working right now it looks like staying at home is working. where are you when it comes to

how soon you think we should open the economy back up >> i think first and foremost we have to make sure that people are safe i think that has to be the paramount focus, as it has been. i think what we're doing is working. you know, we still -- our death toll is still way too high and it's just awful and there are people who are sick as you heard from bob garrett and our hospitals are full, but the good news, it seems like there's some light on the horizon you know, but i'm hearing anxiety from not just people who own businesses but of course who work there and when they're going to be able to get back to work, when are we going to be able to re-open america. i think we need to be smart about how we do it we need to do it in phases we need to do rapid testing up and get equipment in place and hospitals are in place and then we start deciding how to do this in phases. i think we need a clear date to open so we start actually shooting for something but, again, it's really going to be a

constant check on those numbers, on the spread, on making sure that we're containing it, making sure that we can actually test and that we know of people who have the antibodies, who they are, so they can go back sooner. i think all of those things need to be factored in when we start looking at this. we need to have a back to business plan as soon as we can. >> congressman, the one thing that i hear that a lot of people have been echoing is this need for rapid testing. we're nowhere near that right now. i know health care workers in this downy who have been exposed to coronavirus and can't get tests. that seems so unacceptable to me when do you think that problem can get resolved >> becky, i couldn't agree more. i speak to our hospitals pretty much every day i was on the phone yesterday with front line health care workers as i am pretty much every single day as you know, i think they and the first responders are our real heroes here, and the fact that we can't -- we're just barely getting them enough ppe,

protective equipment, masks and goggles to do their jobs and the fact that we can't get them tested and that they have to wait, too, and that we're not there yet is a real challenge but here's the hope. i'm really hearing that those numbers are improving, that we're really -- i speak to a lot of our companies who are producing those tests. we are getting many more online. it's happening, it's just taking much longer than we want i know you've covered abbott and others are in my district here they have more test that is have come on line it's happening not nearly fast enough we have sussex, warren county that have very little testing. there's still a lot of work to do that to me is the big concern. getting the protective gear and barely getting by there and the ventilators, but the fact that we can't get the tests out the door let alone the tests for serological testing to see who has the antibodies, that is a

very big challenge >> thank you for staying on top of this, congressman gotthei gr >> stay safe thank you, thanks, becky. >> you, too. thank you. joe? coming up, we know a little bit about this, i think, even on "squawk box. remote cooperation remote cooperation and collaboration is imperative for co-workers that's where slack can come in i'll speak with the ceo of the popular messaging platform first, as we head to break check out the futures. last i looked up about 750 or so on the dow ayuned you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc we need to unite all the trolls.

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welcome back to "squawk box" this morning as more people work from home they are becoming quite familiar with a group of companies that are designed to make remote communications easier. one of those companies, as many people in our audience are probably using right now, is slack. of course, the popular workplace messaging platform, and it just raised a lot of money in the debt markets overnight joining us right now on cnbc is slack ceo stewart butterfield.

stewart, good morning to you we actually reported the news yesterday on the show that you were looking to raise $600 million. you've raised more than that in a convertible bond explain why you did that and what happened. >> sure. yeah we upped it to 750 million it was over subscribed a lot of interest. interesting experience for us, you know, with the entire investment community working from home. probably a lot easier than doing the road show with the physical meetings we got to do that starting early yesterday morning. ended up in a position where there was 150 investors expressing interest of some of our existing investors, some new ones really great response. >> and so what was the purpose of doing that now? i know some investors looked at it and saw this as being opportunistic in terms of trying to get ahead of things now other people i know raised questions and said, are people not paying their monthly

subscription fee >> no, it's definitely opportunistic. i think we're not immune to the overall macro economic conditions, but the initial response for slack has been a massive surge in interest and i think in any scenario i feel confident that we're going to come out relatively advantaged really want to press that advantage. really want to be in a position to be cash rich. we've run the company from that beginning. we have 700 plus billion on the balance sheet. we are trying to be reasonable and prudent with our guidance. >> what you are seeing right now in terms of customers? i imagine there's lots of people who are jumping on the platform. are there others who say i can't afford it, i need to get off or asking for some kind of, you know, delayed payment?

>> yeah. i mean, we have -- we're not especially exposed, but we have customers who are in travel and hospitality, booking services. you know, almost all startups as you know are slack users almost all technology companies. there is a little bit of that. we're starting to see some signal on the s&b side we expect that to probably decline over the course of the year it gets balanced by some really accelerated rollouts of large enterprises. we were part of this earlier 9,000 new paid team on net over the course of the quarter so far and that's compared to the normal rate of about 5,000 so up 80% in the quarter with a few weeks left. >> right how are you thinking and seeing your market share versus market share? >> we're not seeing competitors show up so much here

i think we have seen a massive spike in teams usage, but it's for what people tend to use teams for, which is voice and video calling. we announced integration with teams calling features last week who knows, it could be three months ago at this point but very recently. almost all of our large enterprise customers are office 365 customers so that was very well received. >> for those of us who are all working at home on slack, you get to see the other side of it. hopefully there's privacy settings so you don't see the true other side. what are the great lessons of this period for you, both as a business person but as someone who's been working on slack and seeing this all happen in real time >> yeah. it's been very, very dramatic. i mentioned the net paid customers. we've obviously seen a big increase in new signups of people who are brand-new to slack. expansion inside of our existing customers, just user base.

really accelerated rollouts. even as we have this surge in new users, the average utilization per user is also massively increasing and, you know, we see that all over the world up 25% in new york from messages sent per user per day. 29% in london. 42% in paris people are spending a lot more time connected to the server that doesn't mean active user but it's up by 2 full hours in new york up to 12.2 hours per day on average for time connected >> yeah, the other question i was going to ask you, as all of us are doing this, going on zoom, that has an integration with yours there have become additional privacy concerns, not necessarily about slack, but i'm curious about your thoughts about what's happened actually at zoom given that you have people trying to pop into some of these calls that are not supposed to be on these calls and sometimes even showing video of things that let's just say are not work safe. >> yeah.

i think that massive surges in interest can dove knefinitely ba double-edged sword they're a great partner of us and well integrated. i think there's some good news for that company really massive rollouts, but managing for the consumer internet is very different than the enterprise i think they're probably scrambling to keep up with all of that. >> is there any great service that you started using during this time? you've been more of a distributed remote worker than yourself given what your company does is there any new app that our audience should know about maybe not a slack app that you're using or hearing people use that's different? >> yeah, so i'm struggling to think of ones that i've heard because there's been a whole bunch of them. a lot of different kind of video services one that i've started using isl.

it's great for recording short videos to share internally those can be with screen recordings or just the video it's a great way to kind of point things out i'm a frequent reporter of bugs in our own software. it's a great way to point things out without having to point at the screen and let someone see it in real time. >> stewart, great to see you i've become a big fan of something called marco polo. >> yeah, that's a great app. >> it's been great for keeping the family altogether. it's like a synchronous face time for sorts out there who didn't know about it i didn't know about it until recently co congratulations on the fundraising. >> great to see you. thank you. >> hold on >> thanks, andrew. when we come back, exxon mobil ceo darren woods will join us

coming up in a few minutes up next, u.k. prime minister spending the night in the intensive care unit after his coronavirus symptoms worsened. we will go live to london for an update on boris johnson's health first as we head to a break, let's take a look at the pre-market winners and losers. lots of winners out there. the dow is up another 720 points stick around you are watching "squawk box" on cnbc

well comeback to "squawk box. u.k. prime minister boris johnson is in intensive care after his coronavirus symptoms worsens. we're joined with the latest

from london. do you think you know everything at this point, steve we're hearing no intubation at this point has that changed no ventilator, just some type of oxygen being administered some other way. >> reporter: yes, joe. we haven't had any updates today. the world's press is standing by here outside thomas hospital which is just 1.4 miles away from downing street as well. as you say, we have that announcement from last night we don't have any update at all on boris johnson's condition today. but what we do know is at 7 p.m. last night he was transferred into the icu unit. we do understand this is a precautionary measure and over the case of monday the prime minister's condition worsened. we know he had been tested positive for coronavirus on the 27th of march. yesterday we heard he was getting his red box of papers, dealing with official papers, still in charge of the country

after midday he was tweeting praising nhs and in good spirits. throughout the afternoon the prime minister had conditions that were worsening as well. the other news, as you say, is that we believe he was not on a ventilator but was receiving seefrl l several liters of oxygen as well the other question, who is leading the country? the untested dominic raab. he is the foreign secretary. he is 46 years of age. also called the first secretary of state, but he has taken over the de facto running of the country as boris johnson's deputy on a day-to-day basis at the moment this comes at a time when there actually had been hoped that we were trying to see some peak in the number of mortalities here in the united kingdom. overnight we lost 439 people dead to coronavirus. and that takes the u.k. total up to 5,373 the actual daily figure was 30%

less day on day, but as i say, the big news and the big concerns at the moment is what is going on with the prime minister the fact is now it's just after midday here in the united kingdom. we've had no update since yesterday evening. back to you. >> health minister, i think. and some other members of the u.k. government had tested positive as well without exception they are all recovered now or doing pretty well can you update us on that? i think maybe the prime minister was in the company of some of those individuals and that may have been -- i don't know how he actually contracted the virus, but they're all doing much better, doing well so it's just the prime minister? >> reporter: well, by and large. by and large i mean, unlike any other government on the planet, i would suggest, this has hit right at the heart of the u.k. cabinet. let me go through some names for you. first minister we heard was the health minister, not the

secretary, her boss, this is nadine norris. she had a positive test for coronavirus. she got healthy and back again then her boss, the health secretary, matt hancock, he tested positive for coronavirus. he had a week of isolation and has actually been back briefing in some of these daily press briefings as well. we also heard that dominic cummings, dominic cummings is not a minister but he is seen as one of the key behind the scenes mandarins, officials, one of the strategists behind boris johnson. he's a specialist. he had tested positive for coronavirus as has, indeed, the pregnant girlfriend of boris johnson, carrie simmons. she's on the mend. earlier this morning one of the previously key rivals, michael gove, he said he's going to be isolating. one of his family members showed some form of symptoms.

it is quite extraordinary. unlike any other government i've heard. the depth of ministers and secretaries of state, it's really hit at the heart of government here in the united kingdom. >> steve sedgwick, thank you so much for that report we'll keep our eyes on that story. still to come on "squawk box. the ceo of exxon mobil, darren woods, will join us. oil prices, the state of the economy and so much more a global perspective on the market from mark mobius. here are the futures right now looking at green across the board. looks like we'll be up in a pretty good way. dow up right now we'll be back after this

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good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box." exxon mobil says it is cutting its 2020 capital expenditures by 20%. other expenditures will be cut by 15% as they deal with falling oil prices joining us is darren woods thank you for joining us today it's good to talk to you. >> good morning, becky thank you for having me on >> we've been watching the stock price this morning it's up probably on the news that also came out with this is that right now the dividend is safe let's talk a little bit about the capital expenditures first and then we'll dig through some of these things. capital expenditures down 23%. where are you going to make these cuts >> well, if you recall, becky, when last time we met, last time

i was on your show on march 5th, we had just met with the investment community and talked about the importance of the capital allocations, investing in industry advantage projects, maintaining a strong balance sheet. also mentioned going into that investor day that we had moderated some of our investment plans in light of the market conditions that we were seeing then and said that we were going to keep an eye on that and had options to further reduce those. on the 16th of march we put out an announcement to say weern going to make some significant cuts today we provided more detail. a lot of those cuts are coming out of the permean where we have a short cycle investment play there, more easily adjusted in the short term and we're doing that while preserving the longer term value. i think it's important to emphasize the work that we're doing there and the reductions are not compromising the advantages that we built over the last several years of scale,

functional excellence and then the cube development where we explained that we're recovering the resources and value. we'll get that back with time as we ramp those investments back up again. >> why is it so much easier to slow down investment in the permean and still maintain the long-term value for those properties >> well, a lot of that value is driven by drilling and bringing on drilling rigs is a much shorter time cycle to bring those on and bring those back off versus, say, deep water or some of these other larger, much more capital intensive investments that come on in very large chunks and, therefore, very difficult to slow down once you start them. >> hey, darren, your dividend yield as of yesterday's closing price was 8.6% that's an incredibly high dividend how do you plan to protect that? how do you plan to say you feel like that is safe?

>> well, we have over the decades put a lot of priority on maintaining a strong balance sheet. we recognize that this industry has its ups and downs. capital intensive commodity business we know we're going through cycles and the way we have prepared ourselves to manage through those cycles is to maintain a strong balance sheet. that continues to be the case today. of course, over the longer term to maintain that balance sheet you've got to have projects and invest in advantage projects that is the key priority a lot of our shareholders are retail shareholders, people who depend on that dividend. we've been pretty committed to maintaining that and if necessary in the short term using a balance sheet to support it but primarily that balance sheet is to support the investments in these industry advantaged projects that is the focus to maintain a very strong foundation for the future >> just talking about the balance sheet, you were

downgraded by s&p to double a stable to double a plus stable what do you think about that how does that impact you or does it >> well, the philosophy we use to manage the balance sheet has not changed. it's always been there as a tool to leverage in the down cycle and we're doing that today if you look at where we're at, our leverage today compared to the broader industry and our peers, still very competitively positioned we expect as we go forward we'll draw on that and use it. when the up cycle comes, which it will, we know that, you know, the energy is going to continue to grow as populations around the world grow certainly been impacted in the short term by the covid-19, but a recovery is on the way it's difficult to tell when it arrives. when that comes back it will rebuild that capacity. we have plenty of capacity frankly, that has always under pinned our strategy. make sure that in tough times we have that available to us. >> darren, in the press release

that you put out just a little bit ago, you said that you are expecting that the economy is going to rebound, that there's going to be demand there at the other end of this. you've talked about that bounce back before, that you expect there to be a bounce back when the stay at home orders are let up and when people can kind of go back to business as usual when are you modeling? is that a second quarter, third quarter, fourth quarter? >> i'll tell you, becky. it's really tough to tell. i know there's been a lot of experts on your show and others that have tried to anticipate and predict when that's going to come back. we're obviously very aware of broader predictions. we take a look at that i would say we're building a plan that doesn't depend on a particular recovery curve. the idea is to make sure we get our spending down, as efficient as we can so we can ride through this and expect, again, some of these fundamental factors that drive the use of these products, growing economies, people's

standards of living and improving. those will continue to be there and will eventually kickback in. we need to be ready to meet those demands when that recovery happens. >> joe >> i don't know whether you've seen the president talking about, you know, tomorrow -- what's today i don't even know. tuesday, i think anyway, thursday i think is going to be some of this opec stuff with russia and saudi arabia they keep asking him in these pressers whether the u.s. domestic industry is going to be willing to step back he said already cutting back on production it's already in the books. you know, he didn't give an exact answer do you think that around the world 10 to 15 barrels of production, that some type of cut included even here in the united states, is that possible? well, i think if you look at the challenges the industry is facing right now, joe, it's

driven primarily by the drop in demand the fact that we've lost 23% of demand in short order. that's a huge transition for the industry to make what we're seeing now and over the last month or so is the market responding to that rapid drop in demand capacity has to come offline there will be economics that drive that and will force producers to shut in there will also be logistics constraints, storage constraints that will depending on the production of the producer's location will begin to slow down and potentially force shut-ins the market will address the shut-in and drive levels down, frankly because there's no demand for the product eventually you have to stop making it. >> knowing what you know about russia and saudi arabia, do you think that those two countries are in a position to agree on something really substantial in terms of production cut backs or

is what we hear about russia true, that they would like to -- you know, to hurt our -- a lot of our producers here in this country by keeping prices low enough to where they're out of business >> well, you know, it's the -- opec and some of these -- their positions they've taken over the years have moved up and down from our perspective, we've always focused very much on the fundamentals and trying to understand what the demand in the world will be over time and making sure that as a producer the supply that we bring into the market is low cost and, therefore, can effectively compete with saudi arabia, russia they are low cost producers. the market would say in order to effectively produce with them, you need to be lower cost. that's the basis on which we make our decisions and how we choose to invest frankly, we've never built in kind of decision making of opec into how we think about the

fundamentals of the business and how we want to invest and position our self. we focus much more on the fundamentals of the market >> this idea of knowing you can't see the future, knowing no one can really predict when this virus is going to be dealt with, when we're going to come up with a vaccine, when we'll be able to go back to life as normal, when we'll have better treatments for dealing with people who do get sick of this the decisions you've made today, the 30% cut in cap ex, 50% cut in cash operating expenses, keeping the dividend safe, that can help you let's assume it stays at 25, $26 a barrel, the cuts you've made today, does that get you through a scenario like that >> the cuts we've made today, let me add to that that frankly

the week after i was on your show on march 5th we started looking back at the plans and revising it. so the announcement today is a result of about a month's worth of work, very thoughtfully goin carefully making reductions with the intent of maximizing the efficiency of the cuts and working with our partners to capture efficiencies in the marketplace to make sure that we're well positioned to start back up again. we have additional options to further reduce spending if necessary. i think with the uncertainty, we want to keep those options available to us and as we move through the next month or so we'll keep a very close eye on the market and continue to adjust if we feel the need to. what we've done to date i think allows us to reduce the spend and do it in a very effective way with really any cost of --

or inefficiencies rejected with these reductions being offset by efficiencies in capture by the market we feel pretty good about where we're at today we'll have to see about how the future unholds afolds. >> since you bring it up, those options, do they include the dividend or you're talking about other options if you have to look at beyond just those? >> the way i tend to look at this is for the long term we've got to make sure we're investing in these advantaged projects in the short term, we put a pretty high priority on the dividend and therefore what you've seen to date is reduction in the capital i think we can afford to do that in the capital obviously be a function of how long this plays out. if we find ourselves in something next year, we haven't seen a recovery, you know, that will be a different environment that we're in. i think in certainly the short term we have the capacity to do what we're talking about doing and maintain the priorities that

we've talked about for capital allocation priorities. >> darren, i want to thank you exxon's chairman and ceo it's been good talking to you, darren >> thank you, becky. nice talking to you. >> it's indicated up at 42.47. a gain of $2 coming up, legendary investor mark mobius. at the top of the hour, labor secretary eugene scalia will be our special guest. the government's payroll protecti protection all of that when we return the squawk podcast, we'll get interviews, behind-the-scenes

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good morning, everybody. welcome back to "squawk box. we've been watching the futures this morning another big up day for the markets after the huge day yesterday. yesterday the dau was up by 7.75%. a gain of over 1600 points yesterday the dow was up by 720 points the s&p was up yesterday by 7% that was a gain of 175 points and this morning it's indicated up another 72 points nasdaq yesterday was up by 540 points for a gain of 7.3%. this morning the nasdaq is indicated up almost another 200 points we've been watching what's happening with oil prices. we spoke with darren woods, the chairman and ceo of exxon mobil.

oil prices are higher after the company talked about how it's cutting cap exby 30% cutting cash operating by 30% but the dividend is safe now that's a dividend of 8.6% forex on shares. wti this morning up another 1 3/4% of $26.52 a barrel. >> thanks, beck. boeing is bringing its u.s. commercial plane production to a halt following the closing of its south carolina facility and that was after the governor, it's a temporary move at the plant, they make 787 dreamliners there, but the governor ordered more people to stay at home. they didn't have any choice. boeing had already suspended their production at its facility near seattle we're trying to get mark mobius. he's in south africa he is locked down in south

africa, the legendary investor is on sunday, on sunday he said that if you see bargains, you should be buying saying that the markets may have bottomed already in spite of -- nobody knows where this pandemic is headed but mobius says if you look at these things that are down 49% from where they were, this is what we're efforting becky, i think you taught me that isn't that a -- that's a journalistic -- >> i didn't teach you efforting. i hate that. don't try and pin that on me i'm not efforting. >> it's a tv word. it's a tv word >> it's not a journal -- okay. you know what, i am efforting -- no, we are efforting to get a better phone connection. we tried land line, tried a mobile. >> it's a production word. >> is it a production word there's some other ones. >> i like how it starts though f.

f'ing. >> we're going to keep production going they're telling us to effort the break. labor secretary eugene joining us after that break to discuss the government's reaction to job losses due to the pandemic and then an update from nyse group president stacey cunningham on if and when the floor of the exchange will re-open. you don't want to miss this either sec chairman jay clayton will join us to discuss market volatility the upcoming earnings as aseonnd reporting the numbers. it's an important interview you don't want to miss "squawk" returns after this.

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breaking news. futures pointing to strong gains at the open helped by some signs of progress against the coronavirus. social distancing works, people. stay home. this comes a day after the dow scored its third best point gain ever u.k. prime minister boris johnson in intensive care as he battles the virus. brittain's minister leading the covid-19 effort in what is expected to be one of the toughest weeks. bridging the gap keeping american workers solvent. eugene scalia is our special guest. the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now

good morning, i'm joe kernen along with becky quick along with andrew ross sorkin. equities higher. we are up in the mid 6s. that would be after a 7% gain in the s&p yesterday, almost 8% in the dow. big gains. things are seeming to moderate treasury yields just over .7% on the ten year at this point

andrew >> okay. we're going to kick things off this hour by talking about relief efforts for small businesses in america. the attention has been focused on the government's $350 billion paycheck protection. meantime, the federal reserve has a potentially larger program in the works it's facing unique obstacles before it can get off the ground for that, we want to get to steve liesman for that story mr. liesman, good morning. >> reporter: andrew, good morning. the federal reserve is making this so-called main street lending facility a top priority. it's hard at work at it. this is, as you say, could be much bigger than the $350 billion small business administration program it could be as big as 4 to $5 trillion using $450 billion to lever it up from the treasury. it's already, we understand, working with the private sector.

we could get some answers about how it's going to get structured in six to ten days but there are numerous, numerous things for the federal reserve to deal with putting together something like this is so different than what it normally does in the c.a.r.e.s. act it says for a period of time businesses receive these loans it can't be engaged in share buybacks or dividends. company has to be u.s. based certain compensation restrictions that appear as far as i can tell that would apply to the main street lending facility of course, there's this conflict companies. there can't be loans to administration officials or members of congress. now these are other issues that cut to the heart of it, how it would structure this facility. for example, the federal reserve is not really supposed to take losses so it has to protect itself but at the same time it

has to incentive advise banks to lone and it can't set the terms of the lone in an onerous way that nobody wants to take it up. the question about whether these are recourse loans or non-recourse loans which is what they have in sba programs. in addition, it has to provide liquidity but can't back up a failing institution. that's one of the rules. talked to christian guhof. he used to be at the new york fed. some of the old programs, he says it's going to be very challenging for them to design a mainstream lending facility that won't be impactful he's not saying it can't be done he's saying it's so much easier to operate in the market rather than in this way one of the dilemmas, should oil

companies be eligible, retail companies. and the difficulties it had previously versus the difficulties created by the coronavirus. becky? >> that is a lot to process and leads to a lot of questions, steve. the one i'd ask first. what happens here? who's liable for these loans if it goes bad? what happens if the lenders don't pay? what happens if they don't meet the requirements and if they give a loan outside of those parameters >> bbtbd. the fed will have to figure this out. also my understanding, it will use the regional district banks, st. louis, dallas, new york to really overseethis thing one way to think about it is a haircut. we're all thinking about hair cuts these days given that we're stuck at home here what the fed can do is haircut

say a business goes to the fed with $100,000 worth of inventory. the way you haircut that, the fed can loan 70% give a lone of $70,000 i'm making up the haircut depending what it is the treasury would protect it another 10%. these would be federally shared. they need to borrow and get the money out into the economy >> steve, the front page "journal" piece, i don't know, it's hard to get -- apparently you can get all of these print papers online, i'm told. no, actually, it says credit markets regain fooding lead piece fed efforts begin to reduce disruptions in the financing -- financial system i'm just wondering, do you think that was another one of the positive data points that was

occurring yesterday responsible for the equity markets it has been duly noted that you've got that kane book so front and center >> right right. "the lords of finance" above it. you don't see that "the lords of finance" book about executive bernanke. >> i don't see hyak or adam smith. >> i've got hyak i'll get that for you. didn't you buy me a hyak book? >> i try i try. i try. >> reporter: listen. hyak is out there. he's one of the greats, joe. let me answer your question, which is i think improving credit markets has been a part of this whole sort of turn around we've had recently. put it this way, you've been using that term necessary but insufficient you're not going to have a stock market rally that's going to sustain itself without getting credit markets together. there's still a lot of work for the fed to do. the commercial paper facility

still needs to get up and running. still plenty of issues to be resolved there has been some effect and this lays a basis for the market and stock market to have at least some form and solid funds in many respects that are linked to what's going on in the fed. >> great, steve. thanks for more on keeping the american worker and small business -- businesses afloat during the crisis, let's bring in labor secretary eugene scalia. mr. secretary, it's good to see you this morning you're probably busy but we're locked at home i watch these task force updates. i have seen the president more than a couple of times really take issue with the way questions are phrased by people in the room about the lending

facility to small businesses he wants them to say, gosh, what a great program, i know there's a couple of glitches, what a great program. they seem focused on, wow, this is just a mess and it's not working at all where's the real -- what's the truth in what's happening now? it's tough to roll it out. has it been done smoothly? is it working the way it should? >> first of all, i think it's a great program, great idea. the fundamental concept here is that we're putting our economy on pause to beat the virus we want to keep workers attached to their employer and this small business program incentive advises that it gives you a loan and the loan is forgiven in large part by you keep the workers on payroll. that's the concept it's to keep businesses intact so once the virus is beat, we can spring back to a very strong economy. i think it's very impressive how quickly this got stood up.

the billions of dollars a day, billions of dollars an hour of loans come through i think the program is up, it's running, it's running well nothing put up this quickly is going to be perfect in every way but it's running well. >> do you think the small businesses are worried that -- it is difficult to get all of your ducks in a row if you're a small business do they worry about funds running out and do you think that it will be replenished, that's not going to be an issue? >> let me say, first it's a sign of what a good program it is and how well it is working early that one of the questions you hear frequently is should we expand it? we'll see. i think the president has indicated his support, enthusiasm for the program i think it's widely believed

there is great value in enabling companies, particularly small business which employs just about half of american workers, there's a lot of value in keeping the businesses intact during this we hope short period of time so they can spring back. whether it needs to be funded more, we'll see. i think we want to make this program work so that woue can rebound to the economy we had just a few weeks ago. >> do you think by putting all of these things into practice in phase 3, are things missing in a phase 4 at this point, do you think? have you come up with three, four things that we might have added or done differently and it should be added if there is a phase 4. >> 235izphase 3, how many of the important bases that have been covered. we've been talking about the small business programs, keep them afloat and keep them attached to their workers. we've got these i.r.s. payments

coming to individuals in a week or two, 1200 an american plus $500 for dependent children. then the very jenngenerous unemployment insurance so when i hit the third bill, the paid leave -- paid leave in the second bill. i think a lot of the protections that we want workers to have are in place they're either up and running or about to be launched so i think we're from the perspective of getting the economy up again in a good place. let's keep our eyes open to see if there's more we can do. >> any anecdotal evidence of the perception of things not being totally fair in terms of the way the bank administers them? do they help certain customers more would you expect that type of -- it's never perfect and you can actually see something that looks like that, maybe it isn't.

there are no bad actors at this point in your view >> look, i don't know every detail of that program and i'm he not going to say there's not a bad actor across the entire landscape of our economy i think what stands out in the program is how quickly it got stood up, what strong interest there is in the program and how quickly loans are being processed. i think that's a really good sign for what the economy might look like two or three months from now because demand on the program suggests we have a lot of small business people trying to hold on to that business, trying to hold on to their workers so they can get the money quickly. i think that's all good news >> you are presiding over the most tumultuous period in maybe the u.s. labor market. do you see positive -- are you

positive about the -- when we're finally through all of this and we can get back to what percentage of normalcy where we were in terms of the labor market would you be pleased with 75, 85 do you think 95% or -- and when will that happen in your view it's just a daunting prospect that we're in the middle of this i understand that, mr. secretary. what do you think? >> let's aim for 110%. it's been a wild swing we put out our jobs report early in march it was just an extremely strong jobs report. 473,000 jobs had been created in february unemployment, 3.5% again which is the 15-year low and then we put out a couple jobs reports last week, very, very high unemployment numbers so it's been really a big swing

but what gives me confidence is how strong the economy was we had policies that were working. those policies remain in place and now we need americans, and it's not easy, to exercise the social distancing and the like that the president and public health authorities are asking for and get back to work i think those policies that gave the economy we were enjoying, they're still there. we've still got president trump's leadership so these are the things that give me confidence in our ability to bounce back remember, the numbers we're seeing, the unemployment numbers, they're high and they're painful for millions of americans. it's self-inflicted. these numbers are different than we typically see where there's some serious underlying flaw in the economy. that's not what brought us to this point that gives me confidence that we can spring back quickly.

>> on september 30th, 2019, as you were taking the oath, i just can't imagine -- i mean, when looking back on that you couldn't have had any idea of what was in front of you looked like a pretty good job. whew how things can change. mr. secretary, we appreciate you coming on this morning and updating us. >> pleasure being here. >> good luck. >> thank you. >> we're hoping for 110% maybe 115. when we return, we're going to bring you a specific example of what the labor secretary was just talking about small business owner who is looking for government relief of his own. and later we've got an exclusive interview with sec chairman jay clayton regulation and companies withdrawing guidance as we approach one of the most unusual earnings seasons ever. right now as we head to break, let's take a look at futures this morning again, dow looks like it would

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welcome back to "squawk box" this morning small and independent businesses have been among the hardest hit by the coronavirus over the next few weeks we'll take a look at how some of those people who run those businesses are managing the onslaught of these current challenges and their path forward this morning from arlington, virginia, chef and owner of the very popular bakery, david gloss is joining us this morning we appreciate your time.

wanted to just start with what does your new normal look like, david? >> andrew, thank you for having me on. the new normal is a dark restaurant with no life, no energy, no buzz, no binets flying anywhere, no powdered sugar, no lines out the door on saturday and sunday. it's a difficult and daunting sort of picture to display what's going on when we go from doing 4, 500 covers on a saturday or sunday to zero it's heartbreaking but at the same time that's what's fueled me to do the other things i'm doing here every day, monday through friday, just to stay in the game here. >> i know you're doing a lot of good work to help people on the front line there let me ask you this. how many employees did you have before the crisis began?

>> we had 23 here at bayou bakery >> and how many do you have now? >> that's a big zero 23 to 0 pretty quickly and have you -- are you taking out any of the government-backed loans? and if you do take those loans, are you anticipating rehiring those employees? >> yeah. i mean, we've applied for the sba disaster loans we've gone ahead and sent a 705 a.m. to my lender, the application for the ppp through the c.a.r.e.s. act that went out last friday and in the meantime, just getting all my other paperwork and documents together, all of my tax returns and all of my proof of p&ls and whatnot for the last three years. i'm constantly just gathering data and getting it ready for my

lender to decide he's ready to see everything else. i sent the application in, a one pager, pretty simple in the meantime, i'm scrambling to get things together and the guidelines for the sba and what's next. >> where you're based, could you do a drive through business if you want to? is there a way for you to stay open or not? >> well, ross, we actually attempted that from the 16th of march all the way through the 31st we did drive and go we ran items and to go items out to people's curb people were calling in and we were charging their card over the phone to attempt to, you know, keep everybody safe distance wise. very important to us and it just became no longer sustainable. we did that from the 16th through the 31st after the governor put the

message out there to stay home, we saw an immediate drop of uncertainty and cover level from our community so we made the hard decision on tuesday to close. >> what have the conversations been like with your landlord >> well, believe it or not, lincoln property company sent me a letter about 2 1/2 weeks ago telling me that april rent would not be due on april 1st and that it would be deferred towards the end of my lease which just so happens to be this november because i'm turning 10 in november and we're literally in the process of renegotiating our lease as this hit us >> let me ask you the final question so many small businesses that are in the same challenging position that you're in, you know, we all look at this, a lot of people look at this as a liquidity issue. the question i would ask you is when does the liquidity issue become a solvency issue for you?

in terms of duration for this, either with a full shutdown or even a partial shutdown? >> you know, ross, i don't know the answer to that that's the scary part. every day you wake up and you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. you're kind of just in the moment day by day, checking emails constantly, trying to reach out to your lender, making sure something new hasn't come up that you have to quickly apply for. so constantly finger on the pulse. i feel like if i just turn my back and cook for a couple hours that, you know, i may be missing something else so it's -- you're just on edge you're walking around on egg shells that's why i threw my money into this nonprofit that we launched, so we can keep feeding the kids here in arlington through real food for kids and chefs for families. >> it's an important initiative. we appreciate what you're doing. we wish you well and lots of luck and hope that you're back up and running as soon as

humanly possible we'll try to check back with you in a few weeks to see how you're continuing to navigate this. >> thank you so much thank you for having me. >> joe, over to you. >> okay. thank you. coming up, we're going to speak with nyse president stacey cunningham with the future of the floor. the big board, it's now been closed for more than two weeks later at this hour, billionaire investor michael novogratz futures up about 650 or so on the dow after that big gain yesterday. and reminder, you can always watch or listen to us live on the cnbc app stay tuned you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc so what are you working on?

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we are now in the third week

of fully electronic trading on the new york stock exchange. the physical trading floor closed after two people tested positive for the virus that has some people questioning the future of the floor itself here's what caroline e ken lans >> we can do business electronically i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't open the stock exchange again. >> joining us now with what's next for the floor and the markets, stacey cunningham, president of the new york stock exchan exchange stacey, i think last time we were in each other's company was in davos. >> it was just all about to get started. >> right and can you believe that -- how positive the tone was over there. i guess we should have known not

something like this, but i guess we should have had an idea that people were just too -- tell us about where the big board is right now, about reopening the floor, maybe going totally electronic at some point where are we right now in that process? >> thanks, joe thanks for having me on. just to touch on davos for one second they say davos can be a contraindicator. last year at davos there was a lot of talk of recession and where we might be heading in 2019 and it turned out it was really strong. this years the sentiment was really strong and it was just in advance of what we've been dealing with over the past few weeks. so as you mentioned, we went to electronic trading a couple of weeks ago and as we've all been living through this the past few weeks, each day we learn so much more each day is like a week and a week like a month. as we were starting to put in screening protections and we had that in place, we went through a

number of steps of scaling back the number of people in the building, implementing segregation and social distancing first we sent home roughly 700 people from the building so there were fewer people coming in and out and we started screening people walking onto the floor. as we got the first couple of positive cases back we were also opening what was happening in new york city more broadly the virus was spreading so quickly it became clear that we didn't want to contribute to the strain on the health care system we wanted to focus on keeping our community safe, their communities at home safe and not contributing at all. it was clear it was moving very quickly so it would be hard to do that. we made the decision to temporarily close the trading floor to help limit that impact. but trading has been ongoing smoothly with all due respect to ken, we know how to operate electronic exchanges. four of them are electronic 100%

of the time. what the difference on the new york stock exchange is is that added element of human trading leads to less volatility one of the reasons why we were so dedicated to keeping the floor open as long as possible is because we were already in such an extreme volatile period. we wanted to have that benefit of dampening volatility. so as soon as we can go back to a full service offering, we will >> great i will say this, stacey, and you probably were watching close as well, the circuit breakers, just the functioning of the markets even in the face of a lot of people in hindsight i think is a bad idea about, you know, taking a week pause or closing the stock market, but we were able to watch where the eventual opening would be with the etfs it seemed to calm things it was stable. it was orderly i don't know whether we're

through this malestrom or however you want to characterize it you must be proud of the way the system operated at the big board. >> i am extraordinarily proud of our teams and while it's hard to watch the market moves, and we've seen over a dozen 1,000 point swings in the market, it's truly unprecedented, i'm extremely proud not just of the team but the industry more broadly. you did not see any delays on trades and it's really important that our systems operate consistently because market making is an important part of this system. it's important for investors to buy and sell stocks. they want to make sure that the markets are operating the way they're supposed to, and they did. we processed 320 billion messages on a peak day, which is three times normal levels. i'm not sure the everyday person understands how much goes into creating technology systems that

can do that with the same level of performance all the time. i'm extraordinarily proud of the team you never know when you're going to hit a market event like this. we need to be ready for it there wasn't a rush to test and upgrade systems over the past couple of months we have to be ready for it the systems worked exactly the way they were supposed to. the market wide circuit breakers worked exactly the way they're supposed to. >> will we see any ipos? will that be part of the normal that we're looking at down the road we heard about airbnb which actually now i can see how maybe it would be, say, god, i didn't want to do it before, i don't want to do it now. give us the status of ipos, both scheduled and anticipated. >> yeah. there's still a large number of companies on file. in fact, we had a closed end fund ipo last week we ran an ipo already in this state. in the beginning of march in the first week of march, which seems like a very long time ago, we

had a company ipo and raise $2 billion. so you're still seeing the isolated companies coming to market certainly it's going to slow down until there's a little bit more certainty in market conditions i think it will depend on the business of the company and what they're -- whether they want to raise money in these conditions or not certainly biotech companies are still looking to come out to market some of the challenges you're hearing are about road shows and leveraging a virtual road show because it's much harder to go out and meet investors we've seen companies doing it. we will see fewer through this period of time, but i expect we'll see them come back to market soon. >> stacey, keep us updated thanks >> thanks. >> you'reright you should being proud we're all trying -- >> i have to give a shout out to all of the health care workers and everybody on the front lines. >> yes >> we're very appreciative of

them >> right okay thanks, stacey stacey cunningham. coming up when we return, a lot more on "squawk box. we have two big interviews as we make our way to the top of the hour first, sec chairman jay clayton is going to talk about granting companies some regulatory relief in this unprecedented environment. should public companies give guidance what should they do? galaxy digital michael novogratz. check out shares of boeing that company temporarily suspending production of its 787 jet at its south carolina plant following a coronavirus stay at home order issued by the state's governor talk about that as well. u' wchg quk x" yoreatin"sawbo right here on cnbc yes. it's the first word of any new discovery.

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>> what we're seeing now and over the last months or so is the market responding to that rapid drop in demand capacity has to come offline and there will be economics that drive that and reinforce producers to shut in there will be logistics constraints, storage constraints that will eventually depending on the producer's location will begin to slow down and potentially force shut ins so the market will address the shut in and drive levels down, frankly because there's no demand for the product so eventually you've got to stop making it. >> you can see the price of oil right now. it has been higher this morning. it's interesting, guys, heli helima croft has a take on this. the capital expenditures cuts that exxon is talking about, because it's going to be closing some of its pro decks in the permean basin, maybe opec will look at perhaps this is the

equivalent of a production cut maybe it makes it likely that saudi arabia and russia will make a cut wti this morning is up by about 1.5% to 26.49. andrew >> okay. thanks, becky. meantime, earnings season fast approaching, but you can bet it won't be like any we've seen in recent memories. businesses across the nation, you know, try to navigate the coronavirus pandemic investors can expect delayed reports and plenty of coughing from companies in terms of guidance and other things. joining us to talk about it in an exclusive interview is sec chairman jay clayton chairman clayton, thank you for joining us we are about to get into earnings season. what should investors expect in terms of what companies can and cannot say and what are you telling companies that they should be saying >> andrew, thanks for having me on and we are going into earnings

season and investors -- our investors in our markets are thirteenth thirsting for information about our companies. we recognize that it's a different earnings season. typical earnings season like this you'd have q 1 numbers and you'd be giving investors information about the path you were on, how q2 and q3, you know, would trend in a certain direction based on q1. that's not where we are. what investors want to know now is where do companies stand in light of the shut-in how are they operating under the current conditions and what do they see for the future under current conditions and then a path to recovery that is consistent with our health -- our decision to put health and safety first and that's what investors want to know you had a previous guest on who was talking about changing production, changing capital

expenditures that's exactly the kind of information that investors are thirsting for. >> chairman, one of the other questions that investors have is there are going to be a number of businesses that are in negotiations frankly with the government when it comes to bailouts, whether it's the airlines, whether it's boeing, whether it's others. what do you believe istheir responsibility in terms of disclosure about those types of negotiations as they're taking place? >> andrew, you bring up a terrific point again, we're in a very different environment. companies are going to be talking about where they stand, whether they need new capital, their plans going forward. those plans are sensitive information. i encourage companies to get out there, disclose where they stand and limit the amount of -- now it's not possible to limit all sensitive information. you have to be in negotiations, but limit speculation as to where your company stands as we

move forward and then with respect to things like financing, you know, possible changes in operations material changes in the way you do your business practice good corporate hygiene. announce them as soon as you can. and before you're able to announce them, keep that information as tight as possible we really need to preserve market integrity through what we all recognize is going to be a choppy period in terms of company information. >> let me ask you a related question about company information. a lot of hedge funds and professional investors are spending their days, as you know, trying to comb through information about drugs and various scientific breakthroughs that may or may not be happening, and there is information flowing across wall street about all sorts of projects that are in the works how should investors deal with that information and, frankly, are public investors, mom and pop, the retail investor that's

home at a disadvantage >> you know, look, information is the life blood of our markets. as i just talked about in response to your last four general questions. we at the sec tried to put in place framework so that information is disseminated to investors as fairly as possible. we want companies to follow good hygiene during this period so that it is you know, that said, there will be people out there trying to get information about drug trials, trying to get information about therapeutics, trying to do this. we don't want to deter them. we want capital to flow into places where it's going to do the best in responding to this health care crisis, but i just ask everybody in the marketplace, particularly around public companies, to practice good hygiene it's very, very important. >> separately, and i know you

don't want to talk about specific cases, i will talk about a case and maybe we can use it as an example, but it's interesting in this regard we talked about bill ackman last week you didn't talk about bill ackman but we eluded to him coming on having a bearish view and take he probably disclosed that take prior to coming on the air he's since taken a very bullish view and made disclosures about that view. is that considered good hygiene, that kind of approach? or is that not good hygiene when you see investors when they switch their approach but you want them to come out publicly and tell everybody >> andrew, i started with companies. on investors, and i'll just speak generally, we want market commentary out there information is good. but when somebody has a position and they're talking in particular about a particular

company, we believe it's appropriate for them to disclose that position. if it's a short position and they're saying that that company is, you know, challenged, tell people you have a short position if it's a long position and you think a particular company is going to do well, tell people you have a long position you know, you guys do a good job when you have analysts on flashing up on the screen what their positions are, whether they have a position or not, particularly in these times i would encourage anybody who's making comments particularly about specific companies to make that kind of disclosure. >> all right last question i was going to ask you about is buy backs and dividends. clearly those seem to be on the table for a lot of companies about whether they're going to continue them. you saw in jamie dimon's letter yesterday he walked through various permutations in which he could see the economy going and in the worst case scenario talking about potentially having to suspend the dividend if this

were a prolonged crisis. how should companies communicate how they're thinking about their buybacks and dividends in this environment? would you encourage companies to continue their buyback programs because there's a very perverse idea as the stock is low, this is oddly enough probably a very good time to buy, but the optics of buying are challenging. >> well, you started in the right place, which is communication. communicating to your shareholders how you see the company performing under different scenarios, and then what that means for your capital structure, your liquidity position and your capital needs, that's the kind of communication. now what you do in terms of your relative debt to equity ratio and how you handle that and whether your investors are making that decision

>> they communicate. >> jay clayton, chairman of the sec, we always appreciate talking to you especially during turbulent times. thanks very much. >> andrew, thank you all right. still to come this morning, we're going to check in with jim cramer ahead of the opening bell futures this morning, again, have been significantly stronger, even after those big gains that we saw yesterday. yesterday the dow was up by over 1600 points. this morning it's indicated up by another 745 points. stick around, "squawk box" will be right back. ever since we've gone mobile on the now platform,

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welcome back, everybody. the futures if you haven't seen it are pointing to increases of

700. the dow notching up more than 1600 points of gains let's get over to cnbc headquarters jim cramer is getting ready for the top of the hour coming up. jim, i saw this morning that you said this is panicked buying at this point that's a nice change from the panicked selling you said oil is also said oil is leading the way and that's directing the markets >> i thought the exxon interview was seminal, it's rare that you hear a ceo say we have to sell less of the product. it's true. there's not enough driving or demand yes. unless more companies cut back on exploration and production, oil goes down. if oil goes down, the futures go down today, once again, you can see wait a second, you had that great interview with slack, they wanted 600 million, they got 700 million. people are surprised credit markets are open to troubled companies, people are surprised

at oil companies cutting back, the thing i don't like this is a rapid increase on very little volume by mutual fund managers or hedge fund managers who are buying the s&p you contrast that with last week andrew's question about a hedge fund manager, how true the hedge fund managers last week were worried about their lives, this week they're worried about performance. the hedge fund managers are concerned, they have the ability to fly the coop, and last week they felt the world was coming to an end. this week they're saying, geez, i have to get long that's the futures buying that i don't like because there's nothing underneath it. >> the mood swings mike santoli was talking about that yesterday the mood swings in the market, up and down, all over the place. >> yeah. look, we got good news from new

york good news from madrid, which has been reversed. good news from milan we had an underpromised situation last week with the president talking about a big number a lot of people feel like there's some less lethality this week i just say listen, this is not about a number of infections this is about earnings right now companies that are buying stock don't act as if earnings matter. but ten days from now, it's all we'll be talking about you may have the futures take up stocks, but then when we get the numbers, maybe you won't be so happy. >> jim, thank you. good tease about what to expect coming up in a few minutes we'll see you then by the way, investor mike noef gra novogratz will be talking markets and what the relief package is doing for the economy. that's coming up futures indicated higher dow up by 2 in77pots "squawk box" will be right back.

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welcome back it's a little more than a half hour to go until the opening bell on wall street. futures firmly in the green. joining us now to talk about today's landscape for investors is michael novogratz good to see you. thanks for being here. >> good morning. >> what do you think we just talked to jim cramer who said he sees this as panic buying at this point this is a very quick move to the upside over the last two days. what do you think? >> listen, there was good news that came out. in some ways it should have been expected we've been quarantined for two, three weeks, the virus incubates, people get it

so you'll see hospitalizations really start going down in a quick way, certainly in new york and the rest of the country. and i think the relief of that is showing up in markets, a lot of short covering. i talked about last week this could be a rangy market, 2700, 2800 could be the top, maybe 2900 2,000, 2200 the bottom i still believe that i think one or two more days, people will sell into it the focus goes on how do we get the economy back and there are lots of different ideas to do it some people are very worried that you let people go back with masks and a little social distancing, we'll be right back in the same soup we are today. so a lot of this goes to testing, testing, testing. we just don't have the tests yet. >> if that's what you're trying to figure out, if you're waiting for that -- are you on speakerphone right now >> no. i'm talking to the camera.

>> okay. >> i think we have issues with the camera let me just -- let me ask you, if you're waiting for those tests, that stuff to happen, that's a much different paradigm, if you're waiting for either a cure, for enough tests that even asymptomatic people get tested, a test where you can see antibodies in the blood, to see who was exposed. those could be a way off if that's the case, what do you think happens to the market between now and then >> there's too much pressure on the politicians. donald trump wants to get the country back to work i'm sure we'll take more risks than the medical health professionals and the public health professionals would want. it's going to be some combination of masks, some testing. what's interesting, when you talk to the medical health professionals, the public health guys, the difference between testing and testing with social contact tracing, which is what

germany is going to do, it makes a huge difference. it goes from needing 5 million, 10 million tests to a number much bigger than that. that's per day 5 million to 10 million tests is what you need to get to for that public health group to have confidence that we won't get back in the soup you know, a lot depends on how many people had it we have 360,000 people that have tested positive. that's 0.1% of the american public t a herd immunity is over 40%, 50%. we have no idea where we are right now. >> michael, are you putting money to work right now? >> you know, i have a big bitcoin position, i continue to add to it because i think this is an amazing environment for people with long goal, and long bitcoin. nancy pelosi came out today talked about another trillion dollars of stimulus. money is not growing on trees right now. i learned when i was little, money really doesn't grow on

trees. we have a global, you know, money printing orgy going on, maybe it's necessary, but at one point that comes home to roost so i think hard assets will be a big buy. gold, bitcoin are my two favorites. i have been buying some stocks i bought starbucks a few days ago, i figured it was down a lot, people will come back and drink coffee i'm not putting a lot of money yet in the stock market. it felt like the easier trade for me was gold and bitcoin. >> you're not shorting the market, right? >> i'm starting to again, that's a trading position i'll start shorting the s&p. heart of that is hedging assets that i own but that will -- between here and 2900, i think the market sets up for a good short >> so you're shorting just based on the action you've seen over the last two days?

>> shorting because i think once we exhaust the short covering, the sobriety will hit in that we've done a lot of damage to a lot of companies i talk to my friends in the credit space, the high yield space is inundated with new members of the high yield community with all these downgrades and companies that are in really bad shape. it's going to take a while to work through these balance sheets, and there's a tremendous uncertainty on when we'll restart the economy and what that means if you're a gaming company, when will we restart? if you're a restaurant company, when will we restart the most optimistic, hey, end of this month people go back to work, cuomo -- >> michael, i'm sorry, we're over we have to come back to you very soon we do appreciate your time with us today folks that does it for us. we'll see you back here tomorrow right now our continuing coverage starts with "squawk on the street."