reconsidered and maybe regulated more in terms of who's allowed to be long and short i think it's a dangerous market on the speculation side. >> jeffrey, the time went too fast it always does let's revisit this conversation in the weeks ahead i do appreciate your time very much today you be well. >> okay. you, too judge, thanks. >> jeffrey gundlach. i'll see you tonight at 7:00 p.m. i'll hand it to kelly evans with our coverage hi, kelly. welcome to "the exchange," everybody. stocks are in rally mode on optimism of reopening the economy. the dow up 291 points. about 1.3% gains across the board and with the week left, the s&p is having a best month since 1991 up about 39 points to 2875 today. let's check on oil, though once again the focus as the june, july and august contracts are sinking.

wti for june, the top of the screen there, down 26%, about $4.50 to under $13 a barrel today going as far as august sinking to $21 also on the radar today, the second rounld of the ppp program. new york governor cuomo saying in some regions you could make the case for unpausing the economy and other states reopen, new jersey says the stay-at-home order until further notice first today's markets. before diving in to that, dom chu is here with numbers. >> the gains right now are broad based. every sector in the s&p 500 is in positive territory and it's a mix of who's leading and lagging. take a look at the wall because it's financials, very cyclically those leading the way higher, real estate seems more defensive. industrials rounding out top three and the bottom three communication services, technology and consumer staples

so a mix of economic instability. look at the parts keying on the investors minds. the bank stocks. citigroup on the big bank side fifth third and capital one on the credit card side catching a bid with the optimism of reopening the u.s. economy take a look at the other parts of focused on, as well check out retail stocks. pvh corp., kohl's and nordstrom all up between 10% and 14% and then one other space to watch, home improvement take a look at these homebuilders like pulte group up lowe's, will people spend more to improve their homes that's up 3%, 4% mohawk industries, flooring products, take a look at the

financials, homebuilders stocks and the places of the market keying in on this economic optimism narrative to see if it lasts. >> dom, thank you. in fact, the s&p 500 is now just 15% beneath the all-time high and we're up 30% from the lows a month ago despite a pandemic that cost 26 million jobs is the stock market too optimistic mike san tolly has a look at the correlation. >> there's a conspicuous disconnect on the surface at least. the s&p down 15% we traded at the same level several months ago and doesn't seem as if a lot of pain given a gdp print more than 20% down for the quarter but i think it depends on how the market got to this level it is not led by the areas that by the way dom mentioning leading today, the areas that's pricing in a very quick and strong rebound in the economy. as we all know, it's really the

big, dominant mega cap, tech stocks, health care is a great performer. defensive type leadership has gotten the market back up to the levels for the most part as many have mentioned top five stocks in the s&p more than 20% of the index right now and that concentration says the fed seems to have cushioned the downside there's money that flew into an oversold market. what's interesting now, though, how far that dynamic can take us we went through the phases before these big defensive tech stocks hold the market together in 2016 and parts of last year until we get some more clarity or conviction about the macro outlook. is that happening right now or a quick mean reversion trade with small cops working today we don't know that but i don't think it's as simple as saying the stock market should be down more in recognition of the challenges because of the parts of the market that are up on a relative bases have not been the ones that are the great beneficiaries of a strong

economy. >> you could say maybe the economy overall holds up better than feared because there are pillars like tech or health care which are contributing to the coronavirus recovery. >> right very large companies were dominant, massive 'em employempa buffer i guess on the economy. certainly on the economy that's captured by the publicly traded universe of equities and doesn't help small and medium-sized businesses and the shutdown duration matters so much to tell you exactly how much damage along the way, how much wear and tear on the small company balance sheets and the rest. >> and maybe a closer proxy on that on the russell. thank you. good to see you. >> all right. this week to big tech earnings, alphabet tomorrow. facebook and microsoft on wednesday and then amazon and apple on thursday. can it keep winning or are

expectations too high? for more i'm joined by jamie cox of harris financial group and simeon hyman at pro shares jamie, it marries tech value qua wags and what does that tell you about how long its market leadership can persist >> the open economy is really doing well right now and technology is one of the places that is open and facilitates even what we do right now. we are talking on a microsoft product right now, using an apple product as an ifb. the technology companies enabling us to work from anywhere and maintaining the dominant position because they're open and earning revenue. they're a more defensive sector than others like energy or something more directly impacted by the economy and i believe that tech is -- people say it's tired but i believe it's more

legs simply because you have the ability for continued earnings strength through the problem. >> the only thing i sit here and hear people bullish on tech and look at the size of the sector in the s&p 500 at historic highs. energy was this large and now it's dwindled to almost nothing so it's not that i don't take your fundamental case for tech but is it all baked in >> people saying tech they hear microsoft, google, facebook. you know in the big names. going below the surface and look at broadcom, even ships are doing well if you think about what will happen as the economy starts to open back up, you will start to see production of these things, facebook, surface tablets, for example, that type of activity is probably xwogoing to happen quicker coming from asia and i believe there's no more strength underneath the biggest big cap tech companies and that's why

dividend plays is a big deal so it's more likely that the dividend plays to be searching for can be more stable and found in that area. >> implied in that i guess is that with the big companies reporting this week you look slightly elsewhere broadcom, chips, something to keep in mind as we move through the biggest of the big reports simeon, your emphasis is different here it is more on the retail part of the economy. tell me about clicks this is a long short etf long online retail short brick and mortar what happens when the economy starts to reopen >> yeah. i hate almost when people say what a genius play right now to your point we actually launched clicks, online retailers and 50 cents brick and mortar retailers two and a half years ago the long and the short leg of

clicks have made money in the downturn because the i don't know li-- online side is we're l stuck at home but the trend is much longer than that. we're earlier in the game than i think people understood. we were somewhere around 12% of 15% of retail online going into the shutdown and that means there's long legs on the brick and mortar side and may be accelerated, for sure. as an example, take groceries. that was probably the lowest penetration of any piece of retail online and now almost everyone's getting groceries delivered and those habits may persist for a while so i think absolutely there was a catalyst here in the shutdown period but it was a trend that was going on long before and will continue long after. >> you promise someone that buys this etf will never lose any

money? >> can't promise anything. in this business that's for sure. but i will tell you that the way we structured the etf is important so that long leg, the online piece, is market cap weighted so yes, amazon was a big contributor to the upside as of late and chewy and wayfair but on the short leg, the brick and mortar side is actually an equally weighted index and really important we did that originally because, hey, somebody's going to pull a quote/unquote omnichannel rablt out of the hat but there's so much pain across the other names particularly in the pandemic period, the fact that a couple of staples did okay didn't stop the short leg from being down 27% and contributing substantially to the positive return so structuring these ideas even when the idea's right the structure is important, as well. >> you have made your case, sir. and made it pretty well. simeon, thank you.

jamie, as well, with thoughts to keep in mind as we trance verse this tech earnings period. thank you. >> thank you. now to $43 billion in 5-year notes up for auction moments ago. rick, how's demand these days? >> another a-minus it is quite amazing. once the fed's in the game, everybody wants to do the same thing the fed's doing. all global investors treasuries are like cream puffs. nobody can have enough of them it seems dutch auction yield, .394, the lowest of the dutch auction ever by the way 2.74 bid to cover, the best since august of 2014 really solid directs also well above average. a-minus. dealers take a much smaller quantity than anticipated. all things being considered, it's a steepening the yield curb the 2s and the 5s stopped through. is the vernacular. what that means is lower yield

than when issued market where it priced and this is, of course, five-year, lowest auction yield ever back to you. >> that's the headline lowest yield ever had for a 5-year note this afternoon strong demand for it, a. now let's get to the race for a treatment for coronavirus. regeneron and sanofi shutting down after a trial of only the sickest patients regeneron shares down 2 prepondera2.5% mega >> hey, kelly. this is some of the first real controlled clinical trial in coronavirus. they tested, already approved rheumatoid arthritis drug to help some of the sickest patients hospitalized with the disease on a small study out of china suggesting that the inflammatory pathways may be contributing to the severe lung inflammation what they saw was that the drug

could be helping for the most critical patients, those on investigators or high oxygen support and showed no benefit for patients characterized as severe, still very sick but not requiring that level of support. based on that, the companies are discontinuing the trial in the severe group and only continuing phase three in the most critical patients with results expected by june. separately the company regeneron is working on a new drug for covid-19 we talked with the company's chief scientific officer this morning, he was more confident about those prospects, still saying they have a goal to begin human clinical trials by june. he pointed out, of course, they had successfully done this for ebola in a record breaking time of about nine months to get to human clinical trials and here the goal to break that record with five months to get to human clinical trials so we have to hope that that enlds up working out and see the human cent call trials in june >> mega tirrell, thank you for the latest. after the disease comes the

debt the u.s. is heading for a nearly $4 trillion deficit this year. we'll look at the hurdles. conditions worsened precipitously, the latest energy company to file for brumt sy who could be next and which sectors are most at risk when "the exchange" conties ayitusnu

welcome back temperature urs heading to a nearly $4 trillion

deficit this year before factoring in the similar lus of a phase four deal. ylan muoy is here with the latest. >> the c bo's economic forecast is pretty grim 40% decline in gdp in this quarter. a 14% unemployment rate and that's all leading to an equally dire fiscal outlook. the cbo projecting the deficit to hit $3.7 trillion this fiscal year that includes the cost of the c.a.r.e.s act and economic shutdown up on federal revenues. together that's pushing the national debt up to the highest level since world war ii the cbo estimates debt will be 101% of gdp this year. by fiscal 2021, 108% so these numbers are dividing republicans over what to do next some senators like portman and

hawley pushing for a bigger package but the republicans say it's a sign to slow down instead. >> ylan, the way that factors into do they extend the ppp program again? if funding runs dry on that front. whashld we expect for state and local governments? that phase four stimulus package that may or may not be coming. >> absolutely. president trump tweeted skepticism of more money to states and said up to them to manage the fiscal situation and heard senator mcconnell say maybe states should consider bankruptcy as a potential option so clearly that is a fight that's going to go on as they negotiate the contours over what phase four will look like. >> for sure. thanks we appreciate it. coming up, the federal government has been slow to supply nevada with the tools for testing so the state took matters into its own hands. plus, public companies took far more small business loans

than first thought and $98 million has been returned. we have the names and the numbers ahead. you can always watch or listen to us live on the go on the cnbc app every financial plan needs a cfp® professional -- confident financial plans, calming financial plans, complete financial plans. they're all possible with a cfp® professional. find yours at letsmakeaplan.org.

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woman: they were able to restore my good name. vo: visit reputationdefender.com or call 1-877-866-8555. welcome back now to the very latest in the coronavirus pandemic over to sue herera for the headlines this hour. >> thank you, kelly. good afternoon, everyone a major milestone today as confirmed coronavirus cases worldwide have surpassed 3 million. that's according to the johns hopkins count. almost 1 million of those cases are in the united states total global deaths have reached more than 208,000. here at home, new jersey's governor unveiled a six-point plan to open that state and added that new jersey's stay-at-home order will remain in place until further notice. the first few steps focus on reducing cases and hospitalizations and expanding

testing and contact tracing. >> i want, by the way, nothing more than to see every main street filled with shoppers and diners one again i want our construction sites roaring with activities once again. i want to see the shore humming throughout the summer. we will move as quickly as we can but as safely as we must. as always, you can get more on the coronavirus coverage by going to cnbc.com. back to you. >> okay. thank you very much. well, a number of states are taking the first steps to reopen the economies, lifting restrictions today and over the weekend. states with personal care businesses have reopened with social distancing measures in place including montana, alaska and oklahoma some allowing restaurants to open with particular rules in place. theaters in georgia are also reopening while colorado's opening up elective medical

procedures and dog grooming salons and small manufacturers in minnesota given the go-ahead. a state is staying closed and that's nevada. contessa brewer has a look at the unique road map for reopening its economy. contessa >> reporter: the governor said it's phase zero of a phased reopening, closed schools through the end of the semester and this weekend protesters pushed back, frustrated with the broad closures of nonessential businesses but the governor insists that to reopen this path forward requires 14 days of declines in coronavirus cases. the hospitals have to maintain their capacity and vulnerable populations must be protected. he also insists social distancing must continue so the challenge here is how do you reignite an economy that depends on crowds, on casino floors, day clubs and nightclubs, restaurant, shows and the all-important conference and

convention business? i spoke with former ceo of mgm now heading up the state's coronavirus task force. >> initially, many of the high concentration of people in nightclubs and day clubs, they will not open. and as the immunity test is available and the vaccine is available, some regulations will be relaxed. >> reporter: and he says testing capacity is an economic necessity, not just a health necessity. the state's lab capacity gone from 100 tests per day to 2,000. the goal is 10,000 in a month. and double that in a couple months but, kelly, looking at the raiders are supposed to open that new stadium in a new season this fall, can that happen unless they're very innovative with the way they put into place health safety. >> no, it is a great question. this is a -- it's not just sports it is the whole economy and that's emblematic of las vegas

and nevada thank you so much. those governments around the world are spending there wills of dollars to keep the businesses afloat while they battle coronavirus when it's all over they're sitting on piles of debt it's the cover story of this week's "the economist" saying after the disease the debt joining me is henry kerr looking like he could be the economics editor at "the economist" and he is thank you so much for being here: put this in perspective for us this is the trickiest part of fighting coronavirus it is the debt piles up and what do you do to service it going forward? >> well, the first thing to say is that there's not really disagreement among economists that massive fiscal stimulus right now is what's needed, massive emergency spending that's pretty much almost a textbook example of when fiscal stimulus is needed, the pandemic i mean the question i think is, what

happens ten or 15 years out when debt is 30% of gdp higher and then rich countries around the world start running up against gruesome long-term fiscal consequences and aging and harder unless interest rates stay low i saw you were discussing not long ago how america just issued 5-year debt at the lowest ever levels and for some people it's trang strange to talk about the risk of interest rates but talking about debt after world war ii, took a very long time to pay off, it's worth thinking about those issues. >> i wonder if the takeaway isn't to say, yes, it takes a long time to pay off and the real risk of the debt is obviously getting inflation and probably will be some inflationary pressure in the economy and labor market but overall probably a deflationary event and if anything the government spending steps up to offset the loss and maybe keep

the economy growing but that's the key comes down to is real inflation or not. >> yes that's absolutely the question and i agree in the near term certain it's a shock amazing to have the degree of hit to supply that we have had, whole swaths of the economy going down and inflation expectations in markets have fallen gone the question is, how able are we to forecast inflation in the medium term? that's the time line to look at these things you have to look at what -- where interest rates are over a longer horizon we are betting collectively to stay in this low interest rate world in which case hopefully with a bit of grow we can grow out of debt but not a lock that there are risks. yes, rates are very low but looking in past decades at how well the long rates in the bond

market predicted recent downward trends in rates i think you would say they missed it we are in a situation where we don't know what looks like by christmas and say with confidence that the low rate world is around for the kind of time scale over which countries have to have - >> absolutely. >> i think it's very bold forecast to say that we know for that sure. >> i used to take pity on japan in the economic experience and now relieved for the example because we probably would think there's no way to have this kind of debt and an economy growing, gdp per capita growing, but that example is sitting in front of us with some similar characteristics. i think it is important to say whether it's possible that the situation remedy itself because if not i go tothe end of the piece where you and -- there are others who are more worried about this saying there's kind of an important steps that would be taken to raise revenue. taxes on land, carbon emissions

an consumption in america, trimming spending on the elder ily. it's significant moves, a lot of resistance again and if we don't need to do them why do them? >> so you're absolutely right with japan and the evidence from japan is that much higher public debt is sustainable in a low inflation world. that said, that low rate low inflation world means you do not grow the way out of debt japan hasn't had anything approaching a crisis it's not grown out of debt e either once you break out of an event such as this, how vulnerable are you then to some sort of unexpected rise in interest rates? how vulnerable to further fiscal pressures? another pandemic so on. i don't need to tell you that the long run fiscal pressures on the rich are quite acute so not the case that any economist or "the economist" to argue the

priority is balancing the books. absolutely not but worth asking down the line when the pressures of an aging society come to bear and debt gdp ratios are higher will governments have to choose between higher inflation as it was done after world war ii and higher taxes that could be a choice that's coming it is off the path of bond market forecasts right now but far no impossible. >> i suspect we will have that discussion a lot sooner than you suggest here in this country henry, thank you so much >> thanks for having me. >> again, his lead story this week is after the disease the debt. want do give you an update from the white house where the president will hold a coronavirus news conference this evening. coming up, public colleges losing millions in state funding

across the country we're goerng to lo we're going to look at the ripple effects. plus, the bankruptcies in the energy patch with diamond offshore the latest victim who could be next to barrel towards bankruptcy we know it's rough for retail and adidas down 32% in 3 month's time the company reporting today and it was not a pretty quarter. >> we saw a falling off a cliff early mid-march that led to the dos csehe businestolo wn ♪

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welcome back to "the exchange." about half past the hour let's get a check on the market. dom? >> positive territory, the dow up 250 points. up 322 at the highs. take a look at the sector moves. financials, real estate, industrials leading the way and communication services, terk no long and then consumer staples the laggards there take a look at the stocks on the move so far today. a few key ones to watch. tesla higher in part the news of dozens of employees to return to work at its car plant in fremont, california, while complying with local health orders at the plant. twitter up and then boeing stock is in focus as it holds an annual stockholder meeting. the ceo says air travel demand take twos to three years to recover and boeing terminated a deal of a controlling interest

in a jet maker so the stocks on the move. >> thank you. now the second round of the government's paycheck protection program kicks off today offering $310 billion in loans but the online portal had difficulties already this morning and crashed several times. more than 220 public companies applied for more than $870 million in the first round of loans sparking outrage of small businesses and the public alike. shake shack returned the money an since then other companies have also given back theirs but not everyone is following suit in the latest piece, reporter hue son is tracking it all and joins me now to discuss. the -- i thought this was interesting. got the data a tracking firm with ai to scan public filings to see who's actually gotten these loans, right? >> yeah. it's a huge service to the american people because never before is there a single place to go and complete transparency,

shows the actual underlying filings and so basically they created an ai bot to troll the securities filings to the s.e.c. and look for the words ppp and basically came together with the total an about a $870 million from 220 companies. >> right so i guess my question now, is there -- as we found out about who got the money, i remember shake shack came on cnbc saying we are applying, want to raise capital then saw the outrage of ruth chris and realized to return this. we have other methods of raising it my guess is there's companies in the filings whose names not publicly disclosed and the question is what do they do about that information being made public? >> yeah. i think what we have to do is separate the people who actually have true need and, you know, a ton of microcaps claiming they don't have access to the capital markets at this point in time, who claim that this is essential to hold on to the employees and

then there are companies if you look at the filings, you can see that there are companies that have tons of cash on hand or significant amounts of cash on hand and believe me you journalists like myself and others and i want the world to have access to the information, should be pouring through the filings to see exactly who and who should not have received this this is a chaotic world, in round two and i think a process where the first round was basically, you know, they didn't want to slow it down and basically had requirements that are quite vague. in this second round, treasury very, very clear they said last thursday if you're a public company with wherewithal and significant market cap you should not be tapping this you should give it back. >> they have issued that guidance after the fact. first up and running, the idea was if your company needs this to get through coronavirus then take the money and if you don't keep your payroll or what you then you have to pay it back and

if you do it's a grant nobody said, oh but make sure you don't take it if you're a publicly traded company and it's come out after congress ran out of money if it's unlimited there availabr everybody. >> it went in a matter of days right? if there's finite money we need to basically prioritize the people to die without the money and so these are the really small companies without access to the capital markets or investment bankers, who can't take out debt or shake shack did and as a result i think that basically it's okay. it's not a sin if you took the money. okay it is a sin if you took the money and after thursday are keeping it and that's the message to the ceos and the treasurers and the cfos of american companies who have to

basically think, look at their -- the balance sheets to see with k we keep can we not i don't think there's a lot of teeth behind the treasury saying, you know, give the money back within two weeks. i think this is a public sort of process in which, you know, companies should be shamed if they took this money an if they have access to other capital because effectively you are squeezing the mom and pops with no other access. >> yeah. so a couple of things. i mean, again, i think that let's go piece by piece here we foubld out this morning that the los angeles lakers were among those who apparently got money under this program and this i thought was interesting in the statement they said once we found out the funds from the program had been depleted we repaid the loan to be directed to those most in need and same thing others said. they didn't know when they first took it out that it might be taken from somewhere else and think about the worst offenders that the viewers upset about,

junior's cheesecake and no disclosure to ever let the public know if they got the money. the imperative on the companies includes a lot of those who we'd never if they took the money like the lakers. >> yeah. so the website we are talking about fact squared trolls public filings and we would not know about the lakers number two most valuable franchise in the nba, worth something like $4.4 billion. they have a credit facility within the nba to tap. so look. again, this is ultimately free government money and then in the first round, if you took it, you would be -- might have been a little stupid if you hadn't taken it but now that we know that it's finite and no guarantee beyond a round two i think it is imperative on the companies, talking about the l.a. lakers, talking about autd

nation, autonation is another one. tapped for $77 million they have a market cap over $3 billion. they gave back the money applied and took it back without filing anything. so i mean, i think the pressure's going to be high for a lot of companies you know i think reporters and the public are going to keep the pressure up. >> i know. it is ironic when the fed starts the main street lending program, they might qualify and get the money that way we appreciate it thank you for joining me read the details in the story on cnbc.com. coming up, as more state budgets are hit by the covid crisis funding for public universities is halting. we'll look at the college cash crunch. general motors suspending the dividend and buyback today how long can they last in f the crisis continues

many colleges and

universities are struggling as states shift resources to the coronavirus crisis one school feeling the pinch is montclair state university in new jersey they cut funding to it for the rest of the school year. montclair state says the impact is higher about $40 million in total factoring in the money refunding to students and the cost of converting to online learning joining me is susan cole, president of montclair state thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> how much is a strange chapter of the history and how much has long-lasting consequences? >> we are all going to discover there's no question that it's going to take a while to dig out of this crisis the most important variables will be what happens with state funding over the next fiscal year and the other big variable is

what happens with the disease that is plaguing us. and the third big variable is what students are going to do in light of all of that. >> right for example, some very tangible effects is larger classes come fall, cutting back on the offerings, deferred nonessential maintenance, we're going to speak with mitch daniels of purdue university next hour. he is opening in the fall. would you be able to make a decision like that what kind of safety requirements would be necessary for you to feel comfortable with making that decision? what happens if you can't reopen financially? >> well, first of all, whether or not we reopen in the fall will not be entirely up to us. we will have to see what happens with the health crisis but much

more important than that we will have to see how society responds to what is happening with the health crisis, what students and their families think about it, and also, we'll have to see what happens in terms of governmental regulations. because if the governor says, close the campus, it's not my decision if we can i very mituch want th campus open come september and we will do everything within our power and control to make sure that that happens. and that's very important because one of the things that we've discovered is, wow, miraculously, we could turn the whole university around from face to face to online instruction in a matter of two weeks. and weren't we all, all the colleges and universities brilliant to do that but the other thing that we found was students, particularly

undergraduate students, don't like it. they don't like it they can do it but they don't like it. it is not giving them what they really want in the university experience >> i'm sure about that i want to go back to the financial aspect of this like you said because if the future is not online learning it has to be a traditional model and where the budget is a challenge. so, you know, the state is not giving you guys that $12 million. i think about a quarter of what they usually give you. like you said, lost about 40 million all told out of $400 million annual operating budget, 10% hit. not catastrophic but an impact and we talked about the measures joutd lined. have you been able to save enough money to basically offset that 10% by not having the cafeterias open, not cleaning dorms and so forth or is it still going to leave you in a pretty big hole >> oh no it's a pretty big operating

hole there's no question about it and we are going to do everything we can to fill that hole without damaging the core of what the university has to do so yes, our instructional program will be far more efficient. not as many courses as before but the right courses, classes will be a little bit larger. the workforce will be thinner. we will not be able to do a lot of the thing that is we have done before. and some of those things are going to hurt but -- but we can get ourselves in a place where we allow students to be able to successfully complete their degrees. that's the important thing. >> what happens if not all of your students come back in the fall if they feel like they would rather not >> well, that becomes another financial problem.

enrollment is what drives the university's budget right now. we get a very small proportion, even though we're a public facility they have shifted the costs of even public higher education in new jersey on to the backs of students and their families. so students don't come then we have another piece of the financial puzzle to solve. and that means we have to get thinner. >> yes it sounds like it is a tough summer trying to figure this out. susan, thank you for joining me and keep us posted. >> okay. nice to talk to you. >> president of montclair state university next hour don't miss an interview with purdue university president mitch daniels talking about the plan to reopen the university's for in-person classes this fall. shares of gm up about a percent right now. the automaker suspending the quarterly dividend and stock

buyback. also extending three-year revolving credit agreement for more, i'm joined by david whiston. you warned this was more or less likely to happen do you see relief the company h gone ahead and taken these moves? >> well, it's obviously not good news but it does remove an uncertainty and a key question constantly being asked in light of ford suspending their dividend what gm did in late march when they made the announcement about withdrawing 16 billion dollar on their credit line. it raised the question of well maybe i ththey are thinking then hold onto this that's what this is all about is when can you restart plants. given the late april dividend, now would be normal and looks like they are not comfortable keeping it >> what happens now for this

company? what more assistance might they need from the capital markets or the government >> yeah, the good news is, as long as production can restart, gm case late september, early october. it's not ideal you want to get the plants going immediately. they are still hemorrhaging cash probably well over four billion a month. we need to get liquidity on report numbers any update on cash in thehelpful we can estimate the things >> it saves about 2 billion a year in halting the dif dent

this time frame can take them to september or october to restart production when do you think the dividend could come back? >> that's a tricky one if demand was to come back this year, you'd like to think it can come back this year but you still have to repay the debts you borrowed you don't know how long they will be closed that will determine what you can repay in 2020. i think it would be probably late 2021 at the earliest. maybe even 2022. just don't know. depends on the recovery of the economy. >> absolutely. that's the question. >> the hourly workers are under the protection of the uaw. their jobs are quite safe for

now. the is up plsupply chain is a b equation there's lots of little family businesses all throughout the midwest. when you restart production, the suppliers need to get their own raw terls amaterials and may noe the capital. if the little ones go down then the big suppliers have a problem. >> that's a great point. >> a lot of jobs at stake and not just if gm whichcut its dividend today thanks for joini ining me $48 fair value estimate on gm

shares from cars to crude, west texas intermediate plunging nearly 30% today at about $12 a barrel as storage continues to fill and diamond offshore becoming the latest firm to file for bank rupts si it's great to see you. you've done a really good work on what's happening across the oil patch. what is diamond's bankruptcy filing tell you? >> it's not going to be the last one. the oil field will feel the squeeze. those are the companies that have the equipment and the picks and shovels and diamond offshore was an offshore company but companies that provide the sand, the horsepower for hydraulic fracking, they are in a world of pain as much as oil producers are feeling it, they seeing a huge plunge a lot of the companies that were already close to the edge, diamond offshore was already

kind of tricky credit just went over it won't be the last >> how big could it get? we spoken with an analyst who says he wouldn't rule out a merge earthquake between chevron and philips. others have said they think like companies like exxon could be hurt more than the smaller ones because they are just simply so big. should we bet on the energy industry looking more or less like it does getting through this with losing the smaller players or fundamentally reshaped >> i think -- exxon is a very strong credit. chevron is a strong credit you have some weaker credits among the smaller companies. i think what you're going to see not is a sort of a desperation move but what you're doing to see is the exxons and chevrons of the world taking advantage of this and buying companies and staffing up assets that they normally wouldn't be allowed to snap up.

it's not to say they will be hurting a lot. there is simply no place to put the oil in a lot of parts of the world. before you go, you've talked about fund that ate the oil market what's your take away there? >> you can't stop people from doing dumb things. there's been swaths of time when you could have made money with it it's not a very well designed product. it allows mom and pop or funds that can't own futures to play in the oil market. uso, now realizes how close it

came to the edge it's changed its holdings. it's changed its holdings a couple of times. it owned as much as 30% of the june wti contract which was a huge position. it's now moved its position parts farther out the curb the danger that you get stuck actually having to -- >> take that delivery. >> it accelerates. that's what happens. they didn't own this may contract that went to negative $40 last week. they did own a will the of the june contract. they're not the only game in town as you get close to tank tops in places like cushioning,

oklahoma you'll have stuff like that happen. >> great stuff our breaking news coverage rolls on with power lunch after the break. the president of purdue university joins us. he wants his university filled with sdes t fl.tuntinheal he'll be here to defend his take ever since we've gone mobile on the now platform, something's gotten into the office. i hear you. feels like there's no barriers between departments now. do you think everyone appreciates it? i do. huh... forgot my glasses.

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