we're coming back from the worst levels, but still down more than 500 points on the dow. we have the nasdaq very weak, once again leading the markets lower and then down 50 on the s&p. becky, see you tomorrow. you're back. andrew, see you. we've been together. it's been bliss. anyway, make sure you join us tomorrow "squawk on the street" is next good monday morning, welcome to "squawk on the street." weakness does continue dow futures down 500 plus. s&p looks to open at about an eight-week low as the reopening concerns in europe collide with political concerns of the united states after the death of justice ginsburg our road map will begin with the lockdown warnings in the uk. stimulus talks in limbo back home futures are sharply lower ahead of the open.

>> plus tiktok continues to tick in the u.s president trump gives his blessing to oracle and walmart buying a 20% stake and shares of electric truck maker nikola tumbling after a firm accused the company of making, quote, an ocean of lies. jim, there's going to be a lot to process, not just today but all week long. we have 14 fed speakers during the course of the week and powell three times >> well, look, powell is on the side of those who believe you should be a buyer. it's pretty clear that powell does not want things to collapse a stimulus dealdeal that seems like a thing of the past we're down off of something no one understands. maybe uk lockdown. that's not us. maybe madrid lockdown not us this banking story so emamorfs in other words, what i'm saying

is we've been down for three straight weeks, carl the big faang stocks are down double digit this is when you start thinking maybe there is something to buy. it's been so bad for so long and everyone is watching and these things are really going down no, that's when you think about what to look at. you know i love a down opening >> i know you do at the same time, 30 states up 10% in the past week in terms of case load. you have utah, montana, north dakota setting records on cases. positivity up in 25 states i mean, it's not like temperatures aren't going to do here what they're doing in europe, jim. >> no, that's true i do think that when we see these numbers spike, we also have some other things i know it's anecdotal. why did the big ten go back? they found it was not that bad for younger people big 12 no problem. we had every single sport.

baseball, nba, the dome worked is that the country? i think the places where you're having a spike are places where social distancing and masks are just unfashionable for somehow the thing i find most incredible here is that in new york they're not coming back. they're not coming back because of things like four people in an elevator and waiting for an hour for an elevator to be open david, we are in an extraordinary time where it's just not working in new york to go back to work and everything has always been happening here and then spreading the rest of the country. so, i know the that things are spiking, david i'm not giving up the idea that the worst could be over for now if we get that antibody. if we get something. i have lilly on tonight, i think they're close, david >> you think they're close in their antibody >> i have lily on tonight. i think it's important to stay focused on this.

>> without a doubt it is and we have remained focused on it. we take a look at who you have on on "mad money." good group there mr. quincy and then the small molecule antivirals and the move to a vaccine and to your point, at least cities like new york, of course, suffered so badly in the spring have kept it extraordinarily low for quite some time, jim doesn't mean there isn't concern about spread obviously overseas again and in the states that are seeing a rise and we're headed into colder weather. more people going to be indoors, at least in many places that we know and live that creates more questions and concerns >> look, carl, i would say my view has to do with a slow rise back but aggressive action by american drug companies to come

up with something that makes it so that you're not in the hospital that long i am a believer that a lilly and a merck and regenron are working on if you had enough people in the trials you would be really impressed. by the way, now if these hot spots are out there then you've got the possibility of moderna, pfizer, j&j having people in the hot spots and see if they get it i'm betting on science, not the country. the country is just not there. >> the president did say pfizer is in the poll position this morning on fox in addition to making comments about tiktok, of course, over the weekend. let's get to eamon javers. >> the president was on television on another network describing this tiktok, byte dance, walwalmart, oracle deal a came together over the weekend

entirely in different terms than it was described by some of the parties as they laid out the terms over the weekend here's what the president said about this deal on fox just a short time ago >> they are going to buy it. they could have total control of it they are going to own the controlling interest everything is going to be moved in into the cloud and entirely controlled by oracle and then i guess they're going public and buying out the rest of it and buying out a lot if we find that they don't have total control, then we're not going to approve the deal. >> so, the president there, carl, suggesting that oracle and walmart will have total control over this deal the chinese won't have a role in it and he says if he finds that is not the terms of the deal, he will not go through with the deal the president describing this in a very different way than the parties described it over the weekend which was a 20% acquisition by oracle and walmart and then byte dance

remaining with 80% of the equity in the new entity. that was the deal described over the weekend. now the president suggesting that oracle will somehow and walmart will somehow have total control simultaneous to that or nearly simultaneous to that. we have a new statement from oracle's coms department which maybe adds some clarity or doesn't add clarity into exactly what is going on here. here's what they're saying now upon creation of tiktok global oracle/walmart will make their investment and the t oirxiktok s to their owners and byte dance will have no ownership in tiktok global will bytedance having any ownership? oracle saying bytedance will have no ownership in tiktok global we'll have to get some clarity on what that means a question over the weekend if bytedance itself has american investors, and 40% of bytedance is owned by americans then that

40% of the 80% stake along with the 20% acquisition by walmart and oracle would amount to overall american majority control of the new entity. this new statement saying bytehabyt bytedance has no ownership in global is different from the way the deal was described over the weekend. the president describing it in different terms. all of that moving the ball. we have to find out where this deal stands and what is on the term sheet back to you. >> don't go anywhere i want to turn to david on this because i'm looking bytedance limited with tiktok limited. >> the deal was described in the press release we got we told you last week 20% that was the case eamon notes it was

not a totally controlled u.s. entity in any way, shape or form given 80%. but what eamon offered from oracle is different than what we got in the initial release here in terms of talking about the 20% stake. you do have large u.s.-based investors that own a big deal of bytedance. that is true eamon, can you read to me again the language and i don't havei in front of me the language oracle shared with you about the own eer structure can you. can you read it. i want to try to understand it a little bit more. >> you're absolutely right to focus on it. upon creation of tiktok global oracle/walmart will make their investment and the tiktok global shares distributed to their owners and bytedance will have no ownership in tiktok global. >> right they must be somehow -- and, you

know, general atlantic and the others sequoia must be rolling in something we discussed they will have to value their bytedance holdings to roll into what the valuation is here i heard $50 billion. i can't guarantee that's the number i know we heard as high as 60. some have reported but i heard that the value being placed on tiktok global is roughly $50 billion, which would mean $10 billion investment from oracle larger from oracle and then walmart $10 billion from the two of them combined and then valuing somehow the bytedance ownership of those owners i just mentioned who then roll in. the whole thing is very complicated still, i think and not clear. not to mention the president's comments >> totally unclear i mean, the story was right this

morning. did something change between the journal story and now? maybe bytedance is offering stock in an ipo that will come in the next 12 months. i don't know where this came from >> well, you know, jim, it came from the president what the president said is that oracle and walmart will have a controlling interest and total control over the new entity. that's not at all the way this deal was described over the weekend. the president describing it that way on television this morning i asked the white house immediately after he said that on national television i asked the white house what is going on here and white house officials referring me now to the oracle statement saying oracle just put out this statement, look at that. so, you know, that's what we've got as of right now. >> are they talking about the board? the board is going to be american the board will be american but this is, i don't know. i think, frankly, not a lot of clarity here to say the least >> we need a lot more detail

>> by the way, we don't know what tiktok global is. >> right >> it said it comprised most of tiktok and i assume it doesn't mean china but i don't know what tiktok global is we thought what they were talking about the u.s., new zealand, uk and canada and all the english speaking places. but we'll try to continue to make sense of it and we still don't have a number in terms of where they valued it >> but, david, isn't it possible, david, that nothing's happened and the president is describing a level of control that we would normally on wall street not think is in control >> without a doubt yeah, yeah he may be conflating some of the control levers that have nothing to do with economics but with the other issues >> right >> he's not talking about the 25,000 jobs and the austin location and the fund that they're going to put together. he's really attacking something

that i think all of us until this morning felt is not true. >> yeah. meanwhile, just to step back for a second, guys bytedance has to be really happy. i know that sounds strange with this deal. valuing the asset as much as $50 billion which i hear is the case, that's a win for them. don't forget when we originally believed that the entire asset would have to be sold to a u.s. buyer, ala the microsoft deal, there was no one i spoke to that microsoft would come above $30 billion for all of usa and the other countries i mentioned. the fact as high as 50 and monitorize their stake into the future and a win for sequoia and sig and general atlantic it's a win for all of them, jim.

where it ended up and where it looked it might have gone. >> those are the winners unless we hear otherwise, i have to believe that it is going to be a u.s. company. i mean, where is mr. mayor he could come back and do it but bytedance has a substantial stake and 40% of bytedance is the general atlantics and the sequoias they do quite well i was thinking the united states, the president was going to trump at the jobs and austin and how the control would be, not total control, but control would be here. but at the same time, they're still there. you're right, david. you could argue it is a win/win. but that you have to argue that there is a w for china okay w for china, not just the united states it's not, remember, this is not owned from the people, it's not huawei >> this is a win for the

founder. >> 38. >> 36 years old or so. >> he's 38 they create a lot of billionaires in china. >> they do they do. >> communism is incredible and create billionaires. carl, they create more billionaires than we do in the valley pretty interesting you know, snowflake versus beijing. i just find this, we have to get more facts on this thing and we have to get them before the open oracle is up big we don't really know what oracle is saying. so, i don't know, david. >> they have a web hosting deal, jim. sd >> yeah. they've got zoom and that and walmart. walmart's got a good deal and mcmillan is very excited about it i don't know i just think the president is really excited about it. >> before we wrap up our opening block here, jim. let's go back to the markets themselves i mean, we talked as well about the banks. are you concerned at all about

these latest issues? do you seem at the open to not be as concerned perhaps, at least for u.s. banks >> boich deutsche bank is a mes. well, that was -- deutsche bank to link jpmorgan with deutsche bank without jpmorgan coming out and saying something alo look at that list if i were jpmorgan, i would come out this morning and say, listen the allegations we're going to prove otherwise. but i'm not getting that and, you know, carl, i know that you get a lock down in europe and you get a problem with some banks and that causes us to go down big, carl i don't know doesn't seem right to me >> all right we'll keep an eye on it, jim september is living up to its name as futures are weak we're coming off the third week down and as we said at the open, s&p looks to open at an

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it's a remarkable monday of news the reopening concerns that we continue to see in europe and in the united states to some degree the tiktok deal and nikola in a moment here we'll get a moment of silence from the new york stock exchange, guys, and the nasdaq in honor of justice

ginsburg of course, so much has been written over the past 48 hours to the degree to which she was a champion to equality not just in her own career and such a groundbreaker on that front and then the voice of descent one of the fiercest voices ever to serve on the supreme court and a champion for gender rights, civil rights, equality and having passed away at 87 having passed away at 87 here's that moment of silence.

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we are expecting a tough day today. watch microsoft. xbox tweets today is a special day athey buy the games of bethesda and we'll talk to phil spencer later on this morning about that story as microsoft is changing the face of gaming. we're ckn miteba ia nu pampers,

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by putting people first. we see a bright future, still hungry for the ingenuity of those ready for the next challenge. today, we are translating decades of experience into strategies for the road ahead. we are morgan stanley. four minutes before we get start trading for the week let's squeeze in a mad dash. apple still the largest market cap company out there, jim >> everyone, i think, is watching apple thinking when is it going to stop going down. looks like 135, 104. jim is not waiting he is actually right now raising his price target he's going from 112 to 125 and talking about wearables and the comfort and most people have not been able to really get their arms around. those of us who watch football saw an apple plus movie that

looked fantastic by the guys who did, but what is happening here is he is taking the other side of the trade, the selloff and it seems brave, but i like it. i think he's got some good points and i think it's nice to see someone willing to go against the wave of selling. >> as you point out, jim, well off its highs, of course but the stock is still up 45% year to date >> right >> we are now moving into that focus 5g cycle what are you pinning sort of a positive tone on here? >> i just think there is, i know there is tremendous multiple contraction going on but fed will dispute it and powell will speak three times this eek the estimates are not coming down so you start thinking, is the stock actually inexpensive i mean 23 times, 22 earnings i mean, i'll pay that.

now, there will be other people against it that say look at the chart, jim are you a fool i'm just looking for a stock that has some valuation underpinnings and, oddly enough, apple has come down enough that you can say it does have some valuation and i think he's got some points here i know you might think it is a generic piece that the apple watch can't but a number of things that came out they weren't so negative. i am just saying you want to hang your hat onsomething the company came out with something last week that is noticeable against what i regard being a wall of red that is rather monumental after we've been down for three weeks. >> wow >> yeah. >> i'm not not buying it i'm keeping an eye on a lot of things tesla now up 428% for the year, again. and, jim, that's been, well,

when it comes to multiples, you can't really have a discussion about it but that does seem to be defying some of the moves we've seen battery day is drawing closer, jim. >> tomorrow is battery day what a day what a day that's going to be. already doting that as a holiday. i tell you what is inest theter but this nikola. and hindenburg which is an illusion to a tremendously unsuccessful is say while founder trevor milton's departure may give the appearance we believe this is only the beginning of nikola's unraveling we think the company's key asset was its founder's ability to raise money through hype and i know i'm going to caveat this saying outright lies i think that is, i have to be careful. general motors he said should be

carefully evaluate the policy long-term damage to its 112-year brand by continuing to tie itself to nikola david, this is one of those, it's down a lot, but it's not over >> all right well, we're going to discuss it a lot more, carl but let's get the opening bell >> guys, there is the opening bell we'll watch some of the early movers jim and david mentioned nikola and we did get a statement out of gm saying they will work to close that transaction ci t you've played your hand. >> you heard jim read the statement from hindenburg research the shorts look at this and they look at shares of nikola and premarket they were down, what, 20, 22%. they were down trading, there you go, down 28% and now trading under $25 a share. you are going back to the levels that we saw in may and, remember, it was right before the reverse merger with

inveco and they took off and a lot of that was fueled the oxygen, if you will, for nikola this is what we're doing with the electric truck and we're going to have hydrogen fuel semis and revolutionize tra transportation and was the face of this company. even though he was not the ceo of this company, he spoke as if i'm running this company mark russell is still the ceo of nikola but remember after they had their quarterly results and they came out and they said, this is what's happening and during the conference call mark russell answered a number of questions. well, the street didn't react with any great reaction there. they're like, you know, what's the future for those guys. who was on air and who was on social media within 24, 48 hours, it was trevor milton. so, he had been the oxygen that

had kept this stock anywhere between 35 and $55 a share and now he is gone out of this company. he's a consultant until the end of the year, but he's not the executive chairman any more. he's not on the board of directors and if he even wants to tweet which has long been his platform or instagram. if he even wants to say anything about nikola it has to be cleared by nikola's legal counsel. >> phil, let me just ask you there still is gm is making things for them i know that gm, you can say they got tied in with someone bad but gm is doing something that is good for gm. right? doing something. >> i think gm, i think gm's perspective on this is, look, 11% stake in this company that will be paying us to build their electric pickup truck the badger electric pickup truck and that is going to be built, they haven't announced this yet but most likely at the plant in detroit which adds size and scale, which is what they want for their ev platform for the

battery platform they want size and scale they just don't want to have gm vehicles they're working with a number of automakers and the hydrotech element of this making hiydroge fuel cells that they're developing in europe that's what gm is supplying, as well gm looks at this and they're committed to staying in this relationship with nikola they look at this as there's upside here. what downside is there if nikola were to fall apart completely, what is the downside to general motors? it is embarrassing maybe this was not a deal that went through but otherwise there's not a whole lot of down side here. >> yeah, that's my thinking. >> i think it's important, as well, guys, to remember that it's not as though nikola and, remember, we had them on and i remember the first time anybody had really heard of them is when

we brought them on in early march right before things sort of shut down joined trevor milton on set at the stock exchange when they announced their plan to go public gurski will take trevor's role they don't mention the fact that he was a southside analyst covering autos for all those years. but they never, phil and jim, they never said that they were going to be at tesla they never said they were going to create their own proprietary engineering and things of that nature the plan had always been to take from here and take from here and sort of create this vision and execute on this vision that trevor has had and that others had bought in to and so, the question becomes can you continue to have the vision without the visionary? i don't know the answer to that. i do know -- >> david, i can tell you

>> yeah. >> i can tell you this much. having conversations with people familiar with this the badger electric truck, that's the least interesting element of nikola when they were putting together this deal for the speck ipo. the hydrogen fuel cell semi and the hiydrogen and fuel trucking company one stop shopping. you guys will take care of everything fuel, everything all i have to do is basically supply the driver so to speak, that was the interesting part of the business plan. not the badger electric truck. i know that got everybody on twitter wanted to talk about the badger >> it's the 700 stations that they're talking about. it's the vertical integration that they were talking about from day one if they can pull it off. hind hinderburg raised a lot of questions about their past

actions and did hit his credibility hard i will tell you a week right after the hindenburg report came out and started to get a lot of attention, trevor then went to the board and said i'll resign and they said, no, we don't want you to now, apparently he came back and offered again and this time they said yes i don't believe he was forced out because i know he had offered to resign already and they had refused that offering jim, you remember when we had them on. we'll look at what the data is i assume it is on the tape we tried to hold him to all the different promises he had. here's the give and take that jim and i had with trevor back some time ago. >> we got a tough thing on our plate. i won't lie. this year, i can tell you this the next four months are the greatest months in nikola's history, hands down. this is what is exciting about nikola >> i'm keeping that tape and i'll play it back to you next time if you don't deliver.

so, just so you know >> and if i don't, i'm okay with that >> i will. i will just beat you silly okay >> listen, say this for the guy. great promoter, incredible personality and great guest and i guess, i don't know if we get a chance to beat him silly because now he's not a part of the company. >> i wonder if there's more to it so far hindenburg has been spot on phil, one thing is clear i had lindi on which is the largest provider of hydrogen in the world and the chinese are ahead of us with hydrogen. i don't blame gm one bit for trying to be in the hydrogen race hydrogen is a great fuel and you need hydrogen more than you need electric if you're talking five, six because it's a green fuel that doesn't even require a plant. so, phil, you have to admit that

in the end they want in the hydrogen game and they have to have it. everybody does >> when they announced this deal and trevor milton was on and what did she talk about? the badger electric truck? she mentioned they would work with them. it was the hydrotech element of this providing hydrogen fuel cells for nikola that's what gm views as the future in propulsion but they also understand that hydrogen is going to be there and the hydrogen fuel ceelements what they were excited about with this deal still excited about this deal. >> thanks, phil. >> phil, thanks for that >> phil lebeau. i am looking at the 10q highly dependent on the services of mr. milton.

if he would discontinue his service to us, we would be significantly disadvantaged. we'll find out if that's true. >> what i'm confused about is some of these charges are so extreme but so far hindenburg one and trevor milton, none. they keep seeming to avoid the whole time, the whole time these people at nikola has yet to deal with hindenburg is saying in any substantive way. dav david, so far their work is pretty good. >> yes now, listen, supporters of nikola will tell you they took a lot of different things from the past and that it was not about the company's current operations and that it was unfair in that way. that said, plenty of people can look back at past behavior and decide that those kind of things don't change and, therefore, it's reflective

of what you can expect >> it's a story that we've been following closely and we'll continue to because, listen, if it was successful, a real positive in a lot of different ways, not just for shareholders but for the planet, as well. don't forget that sort of is where a lot of this comes from >> define trevor milton and will you use that particular set of skills that is a nightmare for trevor milton? >> i know where trevor is. i'd assume he is not hitting the airwaves any time soon >> never trust a man with two first names. you just don't do that >> bow tie, two first names. don't trust somebody who doesn't drink. there's a long list. the market is the s&p is down 2%, guys, overall. weakness where we would expect it sort of big cap tech and banks as we saw earlier are getting

hit. they're getting hit. tesla and netflix are up and oracle is also higher on the tiktok deal and the hopes there, i guess. they get the big web hosting contract. >> the gaming stocks are off because microsoft story. and i'm watching apple react positively i still think this was a great deal for walmart i think walmart is such a winner here because they get access to 100 million people in tiktok and they need that younger group doug mcmillon on the board, carl, not going to get on a board that is phony. he's just not going to do that >> no, i think the bigger discussion, jim, is probably oracle's lack of consumer touch, right? and how that will play out in a business that is highly consumer se centric. >> zoom is business to the consumer and i think no one feels zoom is unhappy with oracle that is a pretty good relationship i know what is hardest is larry

ellison is talking to the government but they don't talk to us. so it's very difficult for them to be able to convey the story when they're not trying to convey it. >> right, right. that's why you end up with op-eop op-eds which i'm sure you read today. the idea that a country's leader decides which deals get done and which don't and contingent on how friendly the company is with the leader is how it works in putin's russia >> wow well, okay there's joe's view i do know what you have is you have majority-owned company and however the president put it, i come back to its majority owned. i'm not sure putin did place a major role in some of those companies. it is somewhat odd that president trump is not trumpeting the jobs being created but something that

bytedance isn't giving him why he's reaching to be able to say that this deal is different from what the deal is and i understand, it seems very problematic right now. >> yeah. the actual ownership structure, again, is something we're struggling to fully understand here in terms of how it is going to work and they're claiming that existing bytedance holders are either rolling in or valuing their shares in bytedance and going to own tiktok global which is what they're calling this business we'll see about the 25,000 jobs. that will be interesting to watch. we'll keep an eye on that throughout the years >> boston. >> boston. i know, it's funny, a number and its former incarnation early on i remember when they were looking for a ceo at tiktok and talk of moving it to a major u.s. city, including new york at one point. guys, before we get to bob, there was another large deal we tend to sort of not consider

it technology, but it is technology yes, i'm going ilumina which is down getting hit not as much as it was at the open but down about 5%. multi-cancer early detection would seem to be a pretty important thing. >> liquid biopsies are the holy grail and they have a lot of false positives in china but when you have 500,000 people per hospital, you need a liquid biopsy >> grail was once part of illumna and spun it off to kind of let it get its own momentum and that was only four years ago. the economics of 12.5% they are now going to buy it back it's an $8 billion overall deal. so, it's not a small deal by any means. we're talking about what will be $4 billion as much as $4 billion or more in stock. the remainder in cash, as well and, jim, you know, they're

saying that it's going to, obviously, move illumna into an area they want to be in and they believe is so important and more and more important and get full reimbursement conceivably from the insurance companies. >> a lot of people try to do this and if they have it, well, it is the grail the holy grail because you can imagine you can just take a drop of blood and figure out whether someone has cancer remember, they are doing it in china, but a lot of times it says you have cancer and you don't. in the meantime, carl, can i just say that apple is almost up after that disastrous opening and apple is the key to this market i see nasdaq coming back remember, everyone gave up on the nasdaq because they discovered there was a selloff that is often a time to buy. just pointing it out >> we're watching the nasdaq 100, jim barely dipped below friday's low.

so, we're watching that closely. let's get to bob pisani and see what else is moving. >> 3255. seven-week low -- >> i think we lost pisani there for a moment we'll come back to him when we can. jim, i want to point out one thing and that is even though the tape is ugly getting better as you suggest we did get upgrades of boeing and ups and dunkin and oracle today. >> they're working >> wasn't taking the glass half empty point. >> running u.p.s. and underperformed fedex and she's fantastic. remember the ceo of home depot i thought that call was a very bold and good call the goldman piece really does say and commercial aircraft,

it's a very positive piece about what could happen with commercial aircraft. in the meantime some names that were just shredded like the fastlies and they're coming back and those are the backbone of the kind of whacko nasdaq that everyone says is too expensive these have just been pummeled. so, we're getting the pummeled stocks making a comeback zoom which has been dezoomed is being rezoomed i like that. resume >> as the dow is trying to hold 27k, guys. before we go to break how treasuries are fairing get a look at the treasury board and yield zone deals are down in a flight to safety amid what we know are rising cases of covid there and talk to the house of commons on tuesday and the yield on the ten-year hitting a ten-year low

"squawk on the street" is back in a moment.

we lost bob for a second we're going to get him back. >> good morning. technical issues important thing about the markets. still seven-week low apple briefly went positive. tech is rallying it's a problem with tech and banks down look at the sectors here another weak day for the banks issues going on in europe. materials, industrials, also weak this is partly the reopening story. tech is doing a little bit better apple went positive. banks, the issues over in europe

with that suspicion trading activity it's not clear if any it impacts. jpmorgan not clear how much this should impact any of the u.s. banks but again, you see them to the downside travel and leisure rolling over for a week essentially. that's happening again today because the reopening story is getting a little murkier and if you look at what's moving the markets, we used to talk about the five or six buckets that moves the markets a couple months ago haven't put it up recently the only thing still positive is is treatment of vaccine. there are advances on the stimulus issue not so clear. the fiscal negotiation the fed really didn't appease the doves that much on quantitative easing. reopening, the european lockdown fears are real ugly day in europe and china rising trade tensions we've seen on the markets, the two big issues are valuation and

earnings generally tech overvalued for the moment earns are improving. third kwaequarter numbers are g up that's a positive for the market mixed messages more negatives than positives in the election making things more complicated. technical matters to the extent the market is dominated by momentum the s&p and nasdaq are below the 50-day moving average. that happened friday and the week after the september quadruple which is among the weakest of the year. normally down 1.5 %. that's happening again the technical issues are also weighing on the market i think the big problem is how do you get the market to rally with technology and banks this week here's two of the biggest sectors out there. the s&p down 7%. tech is down 11% banks are down 6%. health care 5% you can't rally the market on industrials and materials. i'm sorry. they're just not big enough.

we need tech to do better. we need banks to do a little bit better at least you're getting apple trying to stay positive for the day. that's at least one positive we're seeing right now carl, back to you. >> yeah. bob, we'll see you in a little bit. take a look at the opening on this monday dow trying to hold 27 k. down about 2%. s&p 3265 nasdaq just under 10700. don't go away. turn on my tv and boom,

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take a look at the dow down 620 here. all sectors red led by energy down 3 vix at 30 and the stay-at-home stri trade getting a second wind as the pay pals, the walmarts enjoying green arrows today. we're back in a minute there she is! [baby crying] mama!

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jim, an update on tiktok >> the chinese are going to have to accelerate the distribution at the time of the oracle walmart investment which is something the president wants. the chinese have not wanted it, but they're going to have to

give in. the president wants a huge win he'll get it if they accelerate and there will be no chinese stake when the walmart/oracle deal closes. walmart the winner i would buy walmart on this. it's incredible the chinese have to give it up at the time of closing. >> how are they going to do that >> i don't think they want to, but they may have to >> okay. but for a public offering? >> yes >> what does that mean >> yes at the time. the idea was they were going to wait a little while, but now it's accelerated >> they would close the transaction in terms of the purchase by oracle and walmart of the 20% at the same time that bytedance would sell out in a public offering of its ownership? >> that's what i understand. that's very accelerated. you know that whole 12-month thing is going to be off the

table if they get their way. the win tore me is walmart the president wants a competitor we know to facebook. he'll get it i don't know i mean, the chinese -- >> somehow i don't think we're done with this >> we're not will the chinese agree to that that's a huge win for the u.s. >> the global times headline is china won't approve current tiktok agreement you're right we're not done what's on mad tonight? >> eli lilly this is my focus is therapeutic. quincy is bringing out new drinks and ricks. what a show. i got more work to do. more rest for the weary, or the eagles for that matter >> at least we had a good weekend of football. great games yesterday. we'll see you at 6:00.

welcome to "squawk on the street." worst level for the dow since august 4th the reopening worries, senate in the uk meet worries about the death of justice ginsburg and the degree to where it complicates efforts of more stimulus >> yeah. it's yet something else thrown in it's more of and more of a focus in the coming weeks, the election and concern, of course, about the election not just the outcome but the actual election itself may start to be reflected more in equity prices to some extent and the concerns about what's going to happen there, melissa we have things to think of the death of ruth bader ginsberg is thrown into that mix as well. take the virus which is surging unfortunately in the uk. we still are obviously dealing

with 40,000 cases a day in the u.s. and it's making for a potent mix on the downside for a change >> if you go down all the way down the rabbit hole with the supreme court, david and carl, you could get a scenario where if you have a bush/gore scenario where the supreme court must decide and you don't have the ninth justice, you could come into a situation where you have a dead loclock and the outcome d be uncertain that's a rabbit hole, but that's out there. cramer made a good point with apple. you see the struggle to go positive we have some steep declines in facebook, amazon, google as well as microsoft you got the other of the heavy weights in technology weighing apple down and so off-setting the impact we see steep losses on the back of technical levels that seem to be breached at this point along with the huge spike in the vix

>> indeed. morgan stanley saying the s&p vulnerable to the retest of the 200-day, down about 10 % mike is with us with more. >> we'll see obviously you can take your pick in terms of what is now weighing on the markets i view it as a broadening out of the correction process we had a selective surgical pullback up to this point where it was the overheated tech stocks taking the brunt. they're outperforming. everything else is catching up it's a broadening out of the pullback one thing that's relevant is all we've done is unschooled august's rally we can talk about levels pushing 10% on the s&p but that doesn't even get you back to let's say where we were july 1st that's a significant thing to keep in mind in terms of how much you're cutting into muscle.

seasonals, technicals, looking wobbly you don't see a ton of stress in the credit indicators. the longer-term trends are roughly intact it's more about risk appetites in the leadup to the election when you've lost a little bit of traction in the cyclical recovery expectations just because of people clenching up ahead of a potential increase in co-vid cases and maybe some lockdown measures. i think it's mostly about rationalizing all those things together in a pretty week seasonal moment for the market as we -- i think people feel too good about the pullback. it seemed like the stuff that went crazy in august was all that was down. maybe you have to generate more concern for this to run its course >> the muscle memory for september and october trading not a positive one in general. mike stick around. we'll talk about the markets bob, great to have you with us i guess a pullback is in the eye of the beholder.

what do you make of the pullback we're seeing four straight days of down days >> i think you've all just covered it very well what i would add is remember into the high, just a couple weeks ago, the market went up 60% in six months. i don't know about you when i run that hard, i need a rest i think that's what the market is doing it's pausing it's correcting. the fact mike just talked about it, that high yield spreads treasuries, copper prices are not doing a whole lot tells me this is more internal technical as opposed to oh my goodness the world is great and now it's awful. >> how long does this pullback last in that should we expect it through the end of the year? i know long-term you're a holder, an investor, but shorter-term, what's your outlook given the elections coming up, given the spike in potential lockdown because of a rise in co-vid cases >> i think we'll see a lot of choppiness in both directions. that we got as high as we did

surprised me i don't know that this is a whole lot more left to down, but we may have seen the high for the year and we may just chop around here moving up and down several hundred dow points on and off for the rest of the year as we digest the virus the now mixed economic data. the slowing of the advance, can i say it that way, of the election not just the outcome but the uncertainty. will people accept it? and now you lay on top ofthat the supreme court, the banking stuff coming out of europe it's enough for the market to say i'm going to go to the sidelines for a while. >> it doesn't sound like there's a lot of reasons to be long at least in the short-term. i'm wondering if you can -- it sounds like the risk is definitivety to the downside is there a price level where you say that skews in terms of the risk to the up side? >> so i've had for a while a

2350 target for the end of the year that's kind of where we are. so a couple weeks ago i had a talk if that was the right target we'll have a down next few months we're there quickly. we'll go probably south of that target for a while, but i'm sticking with that which one more time implies the sidewise chop >> bob, i'd like to -- you know, we've seen as you point out, the equal weighted s&p 500 is on pace for a good month versus what is, of course, the market cap weighted s&p which has been weighed down recently. it's a broadening in a sense do you think it's going to continue >> i think the broadening will continue use all pointed out, what got hit first is usually what went up the most. the nasdaq 100 now today is outcoming as things catch up i think we need more internal

health we need more participation as you know, at the high the market was up nicely for the year, but the average stock was still down so we need some catchup, a broadening of the economy will cause that we can't lose the cyclical improvement we've seen to continue to have that breadth improvement. >> mike, on friday it was goldman who was pretty constructive on the prospects before the stimulus. argue that further stimulus this year was now unlikely and that was before the death of ruth bader ginsberg was announced how much does the market care if the odds of the compromise goes back to zero >> you can argue some of that is at play today in terms of weakness in some of the consumer-related type areas. it's obviously something that gets exacerbated the longer you go we're still feeding a little bit in the aggregate off the fact that there was a prop to incomes

to real incomes and, in fact, there was a spike in savings rate it runs off as we go into things i think we're probably going to be fixated on the pacing of whatever recovery out from here, thinking that it basically is going to be a little bit tougher. there's a little more friction in the story without the stimulus for sure. you're going to fall back at some point nothing much changed on the side in terms of what the fed is doing. corporate profits are being forecast to be on the recovery even in this quarter versus what we looked at in june all that stuff is at some point potentially going to give you some support, and the credit markets as well. but in terms of the strength and recovery, the biggest bullish point is we're front loading concern. everybody sees very little reason to take on morerisk and when you get to that point, ultimately you kind of front loaded a lot of the pain >> is the hedge enough to back away august gains? >> no. i don't know that it is.

i'm talking specifically about how much people are paying to hedge away volatility risk around the election in both the stock and the bond markets you kind of got this little bit of a welling up of concern that's already in the books. i just don't know how far that gets us. >> mike, bob, thank you both all right. meanwhile another story we're following closely. president trump has signed off on tiktok's oracle/walmart transaction, but there's a lot of questions here over who owns what and what will remain and let's get to julia who can give us the latest which is quickly changing julia? >> quickly changing. and also very complicated, david. now, the plan was for tiktok to continue operating because president trump has signed off on oracle and walmart taking stakes in tiktok global. it will be broken off with by

bytedance. the president saying it will be controlled by oracle and walmart. according to the companies involved, here's how it breaks down the deal includes oracle taking a 12.5% stake of tiktok global in becoming the cloud provider with walmart taking a 7.5% stake and the ceo joining the board. now, that 20% sale of tiktok global to walmart and oracle technically brings the new company to majority u.s. ownership. because bytedance's investors, getting shares of tiktok global are 40 % u.s. based. now, ultimately tiktok global will be 53% owned by u.s. investors and approximately 36% owned by chinese investors but not technically by bytedance itself oracle saying in a statement, upon creation of tiktok global, oracle/walmart will make their investment in the tiktok global shares will be distributed to the owners

americans will be the majority in bitedance tiktok is committed to filing for ipo within a year. two creating 25,000 jobs in the u.s. and sources say tiktok global will have a license to all the source code including the algorithm so it can build a u.s. version of the app and guarantee security sources say it's not finalized but 50 billion, 60 billion, that range is the number discussed. i think this is getting more complicated. the global times tweeted that chinese officials won't sign off on this deal saying it would endanger china's national security this is far from over. >> yeah. far from over. 50 billion is the number i'm hearing. that's roughly 10 billion for walmart and oracle for dollars think about it in terms of how the bytedance investors would roll into tiktok and whether they need to value their

bitedance investment to determine what they're getting of tiktok global it's complex but to your point, if the chinese say no, it's not clear where we end up here remember the ban on exporting artificial intelligence. that's the key to the tiktok platform >> yes i started off my segment saying this is the plan that the president has approved the president signed off on this he said it's majority u.s. ownership. i explained why, it's because of the u.s. ownership of bytedance through the u.s. investors with the algorithm and the restriction of the export of chinese technology, my understanding is because the u.s. companies would be licensing that technology, it's not technically being transferred. it's being licensed. so oracle would be able to access the source code to effectively rebuild a u.s. version of the app to make sure every single piece is secure, and oracle would be responsible for that but from oracle's position, from

the way this whole new business has been structured, they wouldn't actually be transferring anything. they would just be licensing it it seems to me as not an expert in source code and algorithms. it seems like a distinct without a difference that could be central to the chinese government concerns in signing off on the deal. >> yeah. we're learning a lot about control of the algorithms and the organization charts on this deal which is nowhere close to be done. s&p session low 3245 and the dow session low down 696. we're not far away from that we're back after a break given my unique lifestyle, that'd be perfect! let me grab a pen and some paper. know what? i'm gonna switch now. just need my desk... my chair... and my phone.

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dow down 717 session lows it's important to watch the tape at large, but probably easier to understand what's happening if you look at s&p leaders. it is a campbell's soup kind of morning. campbell's is the number two gainer and delta is the number three loser as the opening concerns become more acute and to jim's point, rightfully so or not. we're not sure what the uk and spain are facing may not be what the u.s. will face >> but it is a bunker sort of mentality. campbell's soup, netflix, etsy

all these stocks are gainers today. and we do have a broad base selloff. in this light it looks like the markets are bracing for yet another wave to hit in the united states. potentially more lockdowns potentially factoring in a worse case scenario we're seeing play out starting to play out in europe we have to watch this. this is a lot of the market mentality, especially after the big run in august, and hunkering down here ahead of the elections. >> indeed. and obviously a lot of the health care desks around research desks are trying to make sense of when exactly this all clears up. when a vaccine timeline becomes reliable for that we learn to meg this morning with a special guest hi, meg. >> hey, carl thank you. that special guest is the chief adviser to the administration's operation warp speed of course, the effort to bring a

covid-19 vaccine to america and the world. doctor, thank you for being with us this morning. help us understand this timeline from where you sit which is a better perch than anyone else in terms of visibility. how close are we to a vaccine for covid-19 >> good morning, meg thanks for having me we are pretty close. this is really an unprecedented program between january 23rd when the sequence of this virus was identified to today about nine months later. we have three vaccines in phase three and our fourth one is starting imminently, and two of the vaccines in the u.s. have their phase three trials almost fully recruited to the original plan and the readout of the phase three trial is 50% of the answers to the question when we read out efficacy. that is going to happen somewhere between october and december, january. the longer we wait, the more

likely the reason we don't know and we can't predict is because it depends on the number of cases the other 50% of what's really important to define with the vaccine is manufacturing enough available vaccine doses. that's progressing well. we're investing in a large number, up to 25 different manufacturing facilities in the u.s. to help manufacture the six vaccines we're supporting. and we already are stockpiling small amounts of vaccine doses will become readily available in november and december and if approval is granted around that time, or authorization, we may be able, for instance, to immunize the most susceptible populations in the u.s. by december of 2020 most of the elderly and first line workers in january of 2021 and the rest of the population in february, march, and april.

>> i see that's a really helpful clarity on the timeline. i want to ask you also about getting this data from the phase three trials we've seen the protocols be posted publicly from the three leading vaccine candidates something that drug companies typically don't share. but they're citing increased need for transparency during the pandemic what they show is there is the possibility of for early looks at the data based on a few dozen events 32 infections in pfizer's phase three trial. if the balance is good enough for the vaccine being protective, they could potentially file for emergency use authorization based on just seeing 32 infections in the trial. are you comfortable with that kind of early look at the data, or would you rather they look until the final cut at 150 or 160 infections >> it really depends on the numbers. they're defined by statistics.

it depends on the real efficacy of the trial we assume the vaccine may have a certain efficacy but the reality is whatever it's going to be, and if the vaccine efficacy is somewhat i'm going to call it moderate, 60% or something like that, we may need to have a reasonably large number of cases, because under those circumstances, for instance, you have 100 cases in the la placebo group and 40 cases if you had one case in the vaccine group and 30 in the placebo group with one smaller number of cases you'll achieve a stronger sta ktistical outcome d certainty on the efficacy. the other important number is the 15,000 subjects immunized

with the vaccine in generating information about the safety of these vaccines, particularly over the first two months of the immunization schedule. the large database showed that's one most of the significant side effects if they happen, actually happen of course by definition, because of the pandemic, if these vaccines are highly effective, they would be introduced with a shorter observation time on safety than usual. but we are working very hard with the cdc and the fda to ensure that surveillance after the vaccine is introduced in any population is as active as possible, almost as close as that in a clinical trial to ensure we are appropriately documenting the vaccine safety >> on the question of safety,

we've seen an event in the astrazeneca trial in the uk that halted the trial they restarted it around the world. we haven't restarted it in the united states. what can you tell us about your understanding of the safety event a prior event in the trial deemed unrelated turned out to be multiple sclerosis, but some linked similar pathologies what's your expectation for the safety of the vaccine and the spire technology, the technology based on the viral vector? >> yes first, there is a data safety monitoring board in the uk and one in the u.s. overseeing the u.s. trial and there is the fda in the u.s. they are looking at the safety at the events, and understand whether they are closely related

to the vaccine itself or chronologically related to the vaccination has happens in a number of cases and making the difference between causal and chronological relationship is very difficult i will not try to substitute myself to those independent bodies whose role is to assess safety what i would like to underline is the responsibility of the company and of the dsmb of halting the trials as soon as the cases appeared and ensuring they're appropriately assessed the fda i understand is -- has a number of questions and a number of information that theyhave asked, probably similar to the one that the mhra looked at and is analyzing it and will make its decision and will obey by the decision the fda makes >> i'm glad you walked through sort of the path toward approval and the bar in order to get a vaccine across the finish line,

so to speak. i'm wondering, though, there is a degree of skepticism among the general public about taking a vaccine, because it is perceived this process is being politicized in terms of emergency use authorization granted by the fda would you consider requiring the members of operation warp speed, the top cdc commissioners and the fda commissioners all take the first vaccine given emergency use authorization to prove to the public that it is safe >> certainly i as a person and with my values and ethics, would i ever agree knowingly that something is unsafe and say no, it's safe i can guarantee that would never happen and, therefore, i take it. the one thing i would want to agree to is what is the recommendation that is given to that particular vaccine whichever one it is. as you know, we are developing a

portfolio of vaccines. one of the advantages of going after a portfolio is one of the vaccines will have different performances some may be best-suited for very old people some best-suited for mature adults and yes, i mean, i feel completely comfortable that we would not recommend a vaccine for approval unless it is safe and it is effective and we are transparent about the day. and they will look into the data and make recommendation to the fda as to the approval, and let me also say one thing. why do we have accelerated incredibly development we didn't cut any corner that was inappropriate to cut what we have done is to go very fast we went after platform technologies described in the last ten years that we knew and

understood and would project their performance. we took financial risks and operational risk we organized the phases of the trials before we were in the clinic so when we had the right information to progress, we did it immediately we went from manufacturing and invested in billions in manufacturing sites treating them, organizing them, hiring people and start to manufacture before we know wherever the vaccines are effective there is one thing we did more than usual we're running a larger phase three trial than usual with 30,000 subjects in it. many vaccines are approved on trials with 8,000 or 10,000 subjects that's going to allow us not only to achieve the efficacy events faster. that's why we have 30,000 in part, but more importantly, it will allow us to have pretty good assessment of the safety on 15 and some trials, 20,000

subjects vaccinated with the vaccine. and the vigilance, if the vaccine is introduced and authorized will allow us to further document the long-term safety i feel very comfortable. >> yeah. to your earlier point, doctor, earlier in the month you said i would immediately resign if there is undue interference in this process and science magazine said if you see an eu push you don't agree with you're out? your response was you're out how would you define any undue influence? >> any ask made to the operation that's not based on data and facts and science would be undue influence, and honestly, i haven't had any. and that's why i'm here. >> a lot of people, of course, know that you spent 30 years at a company, but also questions about the holdings you still

have in that drug company, and many people reaching out to me personally to say please ask about the holdings and any sort of appearance of conflict of interest paubecause of the holdings how do you address that? why not just divest those shares you still own? >> meg, as i said, this is -- this has been quite a tough learning for me. of course on flikt of interest have to be addressed and should be investigated the tough learning for me has been that rather than people asking me the question, the people have assumed that i'm here to make myself richer or my former company richer or my former colleagues richer as if i was some kind of a gangster or i don't know what. for people who know me, people who know that money has never been and will never be the objective in my life it's human health and impact

that's what i'm doing. now, my holdings in gsk are my retirement what i proposed and the hhs lawyers specificize in ethics, et cetera, have told me that's absolutely appropriate is to say any, any increase in value in the shares or in anything that i own that happens during my tenure in this role, things that i own that are related, of course, to the pharmaceutical field, i will divest and i will give that money to research in the nih. and as far as moderna, we had decided with the moderna board that i would actually retire from the board, that i would sell my shares into moderna prior to the announcement of my role in the operation but we couldn't say it. moderna is a public company.

after the announcement happened, we effected board meetings over the weekend, and then divested, and again the increase in value between the announcement, i committed to donate to cancer research, and i already gave half the earnings to research, and i will give the other half at the end of year >> we appreciate you taking this time with us this morning, and we look forward to staying updated on the progress toward a vaccine. thank you. >> thank you so much a check on the markets s&p 500, session lows. sitting at 3226 is the level now. down 2 .5%

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things that have turned, jim cramer gold below 1900. is this source of funds? >> i tried to start the rally too early, i think people are still panicked i think people feel the market is going to break down a lot of the drug stocks are breaking down. i think the drug stocks from the ones to watch. they've been sluggish. they're pretty good in a recession. i want to comment on the deal. my understanding on the tiktok deal, walmart and oracle have four out of five board seats this is one of the situations where it will be american-controlled. that's one of the things the president is insisting there will be a couple steps walmart and oracle first buying in and six to 12 months later an ipo. very little chinese ownership at the end when you add the others to the walmart stake and the oracle stake i think the deal is going to get done that's why the stocks are up

i think walmart will end up big at the end of the day. the president got what they wanted >> unless the chinese government -- jim, unless the chinese government has something to say about it. we'll see. >> right >> and they're doing so, a valuation higher than under a microsoft deal under which that was contemplated they would sell the entirety of tiktok us or tiktok global. it feels like there's a lot of different things to come into play here. we can't say this is any sort of a done deal. would you agree? >> i think chinese have agreed to the four out of five board members. >> which we thought that would be the case, and obviously all the servers are here >> yes >> data is here. the company is head quartered here >> well, that's how you say it's an american company. after the ipo, the chinese will

be distributed it will be just another global company. so the president's wish so far looks like bytedance's command i'm surprised -- it's amazing bytedance caved here maybe they get a good price and they're happy? >> they got a better price they were faced with a potential shutdown of their service. for a while it looked like one potential buyer. no option at all so what microsoft wanted to pay was the number you accept if you're bytedance then they came up with oracle as a potential bidder that came to the finish line and oracle's founder is close to the administration what role that's had if any. it's interesting to see the least. if you're bytedance, you have to feel better about this than the prospect of a forced sale at a severe discount. not to mention the others have

to be happier with the prospect. >> sure. >> paving the way for what might be an interesting offering of the service. we haven't talked about that >> i know. >> the prospect it was going to get shutdown >> amazon makes a fortune as you said over and over again, on amazon ads i mean, this is walmart ads on tiktok which reaches 100 million people 50 minutes a day for some of these people david, it's a great way for walmart to assert itself versus amazon maybe that's the way to look at this >> yeah. >> jim, we're going to get -- cap l caplan on today. >> i think that the market, let's watch and see if there's a

lot of margin selling between one and two. i wish they hadn't started the rally so early, but i think it's getting overdone people are just discovering there's a selloff? the selloff has been going on for ages i'm more constructive than i've been >> jim, we've been talking about multiples and talking about correlations to some extent in terms of some of the stocks. we've been talking about it for weeks as we watch the s&p now creep back to basically being flat on the year the nasdaq comp still very much a success if you're along. 17.5%. today as we mentioned in the first hour, we're seeing play in the stay at home names netflix up pelaton. usual names. >> look at the stocks that have been trashed

look at campbell's soup. be careful general mills about to report. i do think this is the beginning of the end of the selloff. i'm willing to put it out there like that. how about that >> i'll remind you when you're wrong. >> well, you did that to milton trevor you beat him up. i'm flipping it in your honor. you said you beat him up is he a big guy? >> yeah. i know i feel like he's -- we'll see. i know i don't think it's the last of him. nikola shares down 20% off the lows i don't know i don't know i don't know >> maybe >> he'll probably stay quiet for a little while jim, thank you i will -- >> thank you >> we'll see you tomorrow morning. >> as jim was mentioning, of course, perhaps getting toward

at least his opinion of sort of a moment of spaces banks, though, not the case. down across the board. let's get to willford frost. there's controversy wrapped up in terms of the move down from the banks. >> indeed. good morning bank stocks are sharply lower today. both in europe and the u.s deutsche bank down hsbc hit a 25 -year low. u.s. banks around 4 % lower today. this is in part due to an investigation by the international consortium of journalists that highlighted suspicion activity, money laundering following reports filed by the u.s. financial crimes financial network hsbc statement said in part all the information provided by the

icij is historical and predates the conclusion of our deferred prosecution agreement in 2017. at the end the justice department determined that hsbc met all the obligations. hsbc is a much safer institution than it was in 2012. a deutsche bank statement said this is not new information to us or our regulators clearly it's not good information, though, either way. the important factor is it relates to share price as it relates to share price moves today, the reports have not uncovered fresh information that the regulators need to deliver fresh punishments for. today's selloff much more likely down to broad cyclical selloff linked to co-vid in europe lockdowns picking up again. travel stocks are down sharply as well. in the u.s. the supreme court news over the weekend makes a stimulus bill less likely and

that's something banks dispor -- disproportionately react to. >> i agree the down drop with the banks could this potentially frame future investigations with more cautious view, and a much more exacting sort of punishment for future violations? >> in general, yes clearly if this is getting lots of news coverage, it's not going to be something that helps ease pressure on regulators as to whether go tough or soft on people and the election is a big swing that affects the banks more than other sectors. a democratic sweep could undue some of the favorable. on the topic of money laundering, anti-money

laundering, aml procedures, there's a push on this front and you could argue that some of these releases that we don't know exactly may have come out of the investigations to lead to stricter aml rules that have already started and already come into play. again, on the nuanced factors, this is past information on the big picture factors, news stories that this helped the banks and lead to less regulations in the future? it does not. >> thank you for that. a big story today that somehow is getting lost in the mess of other news we'll talk to you later. keep your eye on faang today tesla and apple dipped into the red. netflix barely hanging onto 470. joining us is managing director allen patrikoff. good to see you. >> nice to see you >> i want to read you what

barkley's wrote last week. measures of equity valuations are at 2000bubble levels and appear to price an ideal scenario they say we're reluctant to chase it would you push back on that? >> no. i disagree with what was just discussed a few minutes ago. i think we are in a dangerous zone i mean, when you have companies going public and tripling from their offering price, when you have a series of these companies, we've had ipos all throughout this year that are just jumped to enormous premiums and any event can have an impact on those kind of increases it seems the public has an enormous appetite right now to buy stocks and i wish i knew how many were

well-informed or if they're just trying to go along with the trends but i think we're in a precarious territory i think we're certainly vulnerable to further decline. you know, when you see companies like zoom up 500%, selling at 500 times earnings i mean, i think people forget that 500 times, 500 means it will take in effect 500 years to get back what you paid obviously it's betting on a very high growth rate used to be a ratio that related to growth rate you were growing at 50% a year, you could sell at 50 times earnings now in the stratosphere on so many of these companies and the backlog of ipos doesn't decline, and tech is hot. and you could say you can't find

a trend. on the other hand, at some point someone has to pay the piper i've been through so many of these cycles, and just when everybody is so excited and it can only go up, and that's the general conversation, something happens. and with our presidential elections coming up, and with the president we have today, every day is a new unexpected event. so i would say this is a good time to be cautious. >> now, allen, obviously the classic retorts are there. where else do you go valuations are naturally elevated in the beginning innings of another either bull market or at least a structural bull story like we have in technology and software. i don't think you're saying structurally the fundamentals the stocks began to trade on at least are no longer valid. >> no, but i think that we're

living right now in a moment in time where everyone is very excited about anything you use in the home, and there's kind of an extrapolation, i think i heard it said earlier today with co-vid coming back in europe and presumably going to get stronger again during the winter months here well, zoom should go up because people will continue to stay home at some point people i believe are going to go back to the office, and companies are going to do more in person meetings and less video meetings like we've all been able to do. they will do less exercise at home and more back in the gym. i think we've had an enormous shift. online learning. online entertainment watching more videos having business meetings online. when we shift back, and the aftermath, we don't know, we don't know what that's going to

be i mean, i drove down a major thoroughfare i know you have a national audience, but i drove down queens boulevard that's like the broadway of queens, and i was overwhelmed by the number of -- store after store after store that is closed up or has gates on it that will probably never open again. we don't know what the long-material long-ter impact of those closings are going to be, and it's going to effect our whole society i think this is a good time to be cautious. it's a great desire to buy stocks while i don't follow stocks, as you know, i deal in the private market in young, new aspiring companies, growth companies, early stages, you know, i kind of stick to more traditional basic portfolio. just sleep better at night until we get through this election

period i mean, what's going to happen between now and november and then what's going to happen between november and january 20th is a lot of surprises. >> hey, allen, it's david faber. someone who grew up on queens boulevard. >> i get it, i had a question that is specific to new york it has been quite vibrant prior to the pandemic. what are you seeing there in terms of back to work for these employees. how are things looking >> i think it looks good i'm dealing with young company that's can grow 100% a year going from one million to two million in revenues. there is different bases for

growth the venture business is strong the ability to raise money for funds. the transactions going on. we're having a meeting today, three companies up for consideration in investment, and it's all being done without seeing the people in person and kicking the tires. it involves more intensive due diligence and it is happening. i know i started in this new fund, prime time partners, and we're just overwhelmed with the opportunities in the elderly market of products and services. and there has been a lot of interest in the fund itself for investors. we just, they are -- no one seems to be concerned by what is happening outside in the environment. business is moving forward and people are hiring people we're about to hire someone later today. which is encouraging, maybe even

two, and prepare for a future that brings us all back together again. >> alan, that is nice to end on an encouraging note. we love checking in with you and we will talk to you again toon, i hope >>. >> all right, allen patricof there. nicola came out in a prominent stage as a result of going public he is now going to be the company's chairman he said he had a wonderful experience building nicola and seeing all of you hired. what started out in my basement

became a headquarters with over 400 diverse families it ends with his eternal grat tuesday to them all. they have come under a great deal of skrooutny as of late they raised a lot of questions about some of the past promises that mr. milton has made and not fulfilled calling into question a number of things including one of their trucks that was going down a hill. they never said it was, but a lot of other questions raised there. i understood that as little as eight to ten days ago when the kofrs started to swirl, he said i will step aside if you want me to people familiar with the situation said no, we want you to stay in place as the

visionary delivering on that so-called vision he came back and this time they did accept his resignation the question is what is of nicola overall will they deliver on the promises that he made. a deal that was announced with gm just a week or so ago we talked to trevor milton about his many promises. here is the back and forth >> we have a beat on our plate but the next four months will be the greatest in nicola's history, hands down. >> i'm keeping that tape, and i'm going to play it back to you next time if you don't deliver, just so you know >> if i don't, i'm okay with that, and if i don't beat the held out of --

>>ly just beat you silly >> okay. melissa, i think we will stay away from bodily harm at this point given what he is dealing with but you have seen the stock. you have watched it closely. a lot of speculation a lot of robinhood traders embraced it early on they are embracing a carbon free future that so many people would like to see. >> and for the semi truck it is going to an outside supplier, and that calls in questions earlier changes they made for this battery for this product. so many questions about the company's promises and whether or not the technology was there which is one of the allegations in that report, but part of this

cohort that had seen a magnificent rise so we will continue to mo monomonitor this stock seema has more on that sector. >> the cruise lines are down 9% or 10% per day this morning the healthy sale panel submitted a 65 page report on recommendations that they feel won't happy against now these recommendations that include testing, face coverings, daily temperature checks have been submitted as health officials consult whether or not to lift their no-sale order. the protocols while extensive

still lack detail around who conducts the testing it is raising fresh concerns about whether or not they can bring more ships to italy and germany in the coming weeks. they say anothership will depart today but shares of carnival down as much as 10% on the day carl, back to you. >> the weakness travel names not limited to cruise lines. airlines are down as well. they're all down 5% to 8%. a rough morning. we're looking at the major carriers they're all under pressure and a few things are weighing on them right now. first there was expectation that was building into next week that

perhaps there was a cares act 2 that might be lent to the airlines give given what is going on in washington the prospects of that is slimmer you also have increased lock downs in europe. and remember passenger levels are plateauing september and october, they're typically relatively slow months for the airline industry so you're going to to see the levels that were down 65 to 75%. you look at the airline stocks over the last month, they were moving higher. one other note is bowing, shares of bowing. american airlines telling pilots they will start training for the 737 max, they will have to go through new training, two hours

worth before they can fly the max. they will start that training hopefully in november. that memo sent to pilots today in is a key fourth quarter, carl, because they're hoping to get the max ungrounded and potentially get deliveries in december again. >> right phil, i wonder how you're judging the drop off in traffic. is that an expected seasonal thing? we know that corporate travel is still depressed. >> there is nothing there, carl, and you heard this goingall of the way back into july they were hoping you would see continued growth they saw it was not happening. there is nothing there to boost

travel in september and october. there is some sales out there, and there are some markets that are adding flights and routes, but overall this is a slow time of year. that mark is depressed in addition to everything else. so this is not expected. >> all right, phil, thank you very much. appreciate that watching the airline trade today. we have to ask the control room if we have an open, if notly welcome everyone back. the dow is down almost 840 points we're joined this morning by people whoa can help us figure it out