about 230 loans totall$230 loany t $2 billion have been funded or in the pipeline. businesses that were on a sound footing before the pandemic and had long-term prospects, but they are not able to get return on reasonable loans. main street loans may not be the right help for some businesses our fits have improved conditions broadly the evidence suggests that most credit worthy small and medium sized businesses can get loans many of the programs rely on emergency lending powers that require the support of the treasury department and are available only in unusual circumstances. by serving as a backstop to key credit markets, our programs have significantly increased the

extension of credit from private lenders. they are designed to support the functions of private markets, not to replace them. these are lending, not spending powers for others, alone that can be difficult to repay might not be the answer in these cases direct fiscal support may be needed. our economy will recover fully from this difficult period we remain committed to using our full range of tools to support the economy for as long as needed thank you. >> thank you very much chair powell i now recognize myself for five minutes for questions. i am very appreciative of the explanations that you're giving, but all of the questions that we

have about main street and other facilities each of them can keep the facility as an option in the futu future, and the guam governor urged it be made available to the territories. the congressional budget office director and staff economist for president george h.w. bush's n council of advisors said "the mist try to me is the treasury using half a trillion dollars to backstop their facilities

including the municipal liquidity facility i don't understand why that has not happened that is something that can and should be more aggressively used so secretary mnuchin at a time when a wide range of businesses have been frustrated that they cannot access they're facilities again, and we heard the excuses for that, and we have democratic governors pushing, is there more that the treasury can do with the 500 billion that congress provided to you to enhance these facilities to support the economy? >> i, unfortunately think there is not more that we can do, and partover the reason we agreed was so that we could rotate it to better use. i think that in the case of many

businesses that have not been impacted by the virus they're able to borrow in the private markets. we worked hard to roll out this program. i know there has been some academies, we expect to take losses on that and we're working argue on that facility >> secretary of the $600 billion available, with the treasury eliminating the main stream programs, the threshold of 2000,000 so that small and minority owned businesses can access the program let me just say i was

apreachtive when we first rolls out and the requirement for the minimum of the loan was one million and you reduced that i'm asking can you go further in the reductions so that the loans can be made to smaller businesses secretary mnuchin. >> i would be fine lowering it to $100,000 and we'll consult with chair powell afterwards on lowering it. >> chair powell? >> there is very little demand in the facility below a million dollars. there is not much interest at all below a million dollars. this would have to be a different kind of facility extending credit in the small quantities would be quite small, but we can talk about that it would not look like the current main street facility, it is a very different kind of a

thing. >> i'm aware of how the main street facility was formulated, was created. for the businesses, and also i'm very much aware they have to rer repathos loans, but we have so many small businesses eligible for ppe and beyond and certainly they would repay the small loans they could get it's not that they absolutely look to have those waived, do you think that something would be done. i think you're well advised to

use that >> thank you, i now recognize the distinguished ranking member for five minutes thank you, madame chair. secretary powell, let's begin here in the federal reserves data, we see there is a substantial economic recovery happening. we see economic numbers improving. we have many household that's are about the same or are a little better off than at the beginning of the year. and we see many households much, much worse off and so it is sort of a tale of two different recoveries, if you will or two different experiences of the pandemic so while we see good economic numbe numbers, what are the areas that you see as needing further

assistance what areas of our economy do you see as needing further assistance to get us back to something more normalized. you know, given where we are with covid >> i guess i would point to the labor market to sort of capture the size of the issue. we industrial 11 million people out of the 22 million that were laid off in the payroll numbers. still 11 million out there and that is still really good progress we put half of those back to work and that is more people than lost their jobs in the global financial crisis. our policies will support that, but it will go faster if we have people -- if it is all of government working together. >> there is a fiscal response to get the economy, to help support the economy for those most affected by covid.

economically affected by covid >> of course, the details of that are between congress and the administration not for the fed to say, but i think the economy will go faster if we have both tools continuing to work together as they have so far. >> thank you, secretary mnuchin there is much that has been made about your negotiations on another cares badge like we passed back in march you're the lead negotiator on that package i think from all sources it was a very solid piece of bipartisan legislating. i want to comment you for being administration's voice and negotiabler on that project. i think we have good results from the program's that you were then able to set up in coordination with the fed. now a long those lines, what are

the kmoecomponents for the next package that we need to take to support the economy to get things back and going again? >> i think the next package should be much more targed it should be focused on kids, jobs, and areas of the economy still hard hit particularly areas like the travel business. and there is restaurants, i think there is broad bipartisan support for extending the ppe for business that's had revenue drops. i think they are a large priority of that one >> and family support, right and so that would be a strong foundati foundation so let me ask you about this so for treatment, therapeutics, massive scale testing. we are getting up to speed with some really first rate testing across the country

and getting kids back in school in a safe way. those things are sort of foundations for us getting an economy going to the next degree it's not all fiscal or monetary policies it is not government regulation, it will be people's decisions whether or not to engage similar to getting on airplanes. so along those lines, do you see the capacity for us to get to a full economic recovery >> i do, i think it is just a question of time and i highlight that we're extremely pleased, we committed to 150 million point of care tests with abbott delivered between now and the end of the year. and looking at instant results >> those are instant result that's are very low cost tests, are they not

>> that is correct >> thank you for your leadership on this, i know we're deeply in the midst of it, of the economic affects of covid and i want to thank you all for being there, both with the life insurance policy and with the water to put out the flames. you have worked well on behalf of the american people >> i now recognize mr. hines of connecticut for five minutes >> thank you, madame chair and thank you for being here i'm going to pick up on what the ranking member just said about the insurance policy my time is bracted with mailouts we passed the tarp that lead to a massive bailout of the auto industry the government is very, very much involved.

i would point out to my friends on the republican side that they were all passed and promulgated by their party i would like to do fewer rather than more. i don't like business managers thinking that every five, seven, or ten years that the government will bail them out i also like they as long as we're going to do these things that the american public be aware. i admire you getting warrants and making sure that the american people are kepts apprised

i was told if you make the money cost anything they won't take it and they will fire us. that feels to me like a hostage situation. give me the money for free or we will not take it and we will fire people. i would love to give you the rest of my time, what do we need to do structurally to get out of the business of bailouts and number two, how can we get out of this hostage situation in which i think you actually worked very, very hard where the american people are being compensated fairly for the use of their money for private purposes >> i would say this is very different from the financial crisis they truck the right balance, we got proper compensation for taxpayers. i think it was very, very important given what went on in

the travel industry and in the case of the national security loan that we made to the trucking company we took a 30% equity interest in that for proper compensation so i agree with you that the government should be properly compensated. on the other hand i think for very small businesses the money that we spent there we saved significant money on unemployment on the other side >> so with respect to the warrants, mr. secretary, and the 30% stake in the trucking company, what's your philosophy. do you want todispose of that position once you can safely or is it to maximize the return to the american public? >> i don't think it is to absolutely maximize the return, but i think the american public should reap the benefit. i think we will liquidate when the markets are more normalized and the economy is back to

normal >> so let me run an off beat idea by you. as it happens i had an opportunity to talk to secretary paulson and another former treasury secretary about it. one of the folks for capturing common wealth is a commonwealth fund should congress investigation if we're going to be in the regular business of bailout and in return should we look at establishing a wealth fund to take the proceeds from that commonwealth and use it as an insurance fund or to disburse -- does that make any sense to you? >> let me just say that most countries that have sovereign

wealth funds, their focused on things like energy and things like that that won't necessarily be aernd forever i don't think the u.s. should a sovereign wealth fund, but i think it is an interesting idea that we are willing to explore with you >> i don't think we should be in the bid of bailouts, but i think the american public should be paid back for the use of their money. >> thank you, i recognize mrs. wagner from missouri for five minutes. secretary mnuchin and secretary powell, thank you for being here today i have been hearing from employer that's desperately need congress to do it's job and pass

coronavirus relief legislation so they can do their job and keep handing out paychecks to their hard working employees earlier this month the snakt acted to pass legislation that could actual i will be signed into law that package would have given relief to families, schools, child care providers, and those that need it most. at a time when so many are struggling, we need to put american's families first. i'm sick of the partisan politics and wish list that's should no flas this conversation congress should be laser focused on targeted and immediate relief the senate majority supporting a second round of ppe money that would keep our small businesses afloat i call on my colleagues in the

house to bring this to the floor. secretary, i'm grateful, also, as the ranking member mentioned for your due diligence and your work in negotiating this and what it mean first our small businesses including restaurants, travel, events industry, dentists office, and so many others that keep americans employed you talked a little about how passing the second round of the paycheck production program would keep america on track for a full economic recovery how much do you think we could repurpose, and tell us again what this would mean in terms of economic recovery. >> well, i agree that we had about 450 bill that was allocated to work with the fed i agreed that i would reallocate $200 billion of that that is not

used that needs congressional support, but we would reallocate that and our priority is kids and jobs there is very strong bipartisan support. i know they have worked on revision that's are necessary, and we look forward to working with both parties. >> that could be passed today and signed into law today, is that correct >> the president would very much signing into law additional ppe money immediately. >> we must act it is clear that the best economic stimulus package that we can give to the american people is a fully open economy it brings people back to work. allows economic growth to begin, and it will restore our economy. do you agree that reopening increased economic activity and

started the process of bringing the economy back >> we, yes need to do so in a sustainable way. we want to keep the virus under control and that takes basic measures like wearing masks and things like that the two things gotogether. fast reopening and maintaining these measures go together >> absolutely. the president's plan to reopen america has enabled states to tailor their plans to address kmesk challenges in their state a and chairman powell, how does this state by state approach help the process for state that's are responding differently to the pandemic and is there any regulatory burdens you're aware of that should be removed to improve state's abilities to quickly and safely

reopen >> you know the question of how to reopen exactly and what policies to use, that is a dwhae is for elected officials at the state and local level, not far the federal reserve. i would fwhot a good judge of that for regulatory adjustments we have a number that have been designed to allow banks to serve their customers. we relaxed restrictions temporarily. we are open to doing many of that, and the economy is healing now, so -- >> the economy is healing and i believe many of the regulatory burdens we have lifted are things that could be sustained beyond the pandemic. i hope the committee will look at that. i yield back madame chairwoman >> thank you, i recognize mr.

foster now for five minutes. mr. foster, you're muted >> all right, my apologies madame chair and my thanks to you and our witnesses. chairman powell, the fed recently announced hypothetical scenarios for the second round of bank stress tests and you will be releasing bank by bank results. i appreciate this transparency the banks themselves could have this information be public one of the tragedies of the last financial crisis is that in the ponts prior to the crisis as pressure built, they did not use this time to raise capital until it was too late. hopefully the prospect of disclosed stress tests will not

continue now you're going to be using the results of these stress tests and it will continue through the fourth fourth quarter. will all of the large banks be subject to the same restrictions >> you know, that is going to depend on a lot of things and those decisions that we will make down the road i think we will be looking to tease the, you know, the bank by bank approach. >> thank you >> and given that the continuing unemployment of the senate to pass any covid relief, and the uncertain volatility, we do err on the side of conservatism and making these determinations. i think the stress tests themselves always air on the side of safety

we think of very extreme scenarios and that has generally been our opinion >> will you be reanalyzing the living wills of the giant banks to make sure they could be executed properly with most of the workforce at home? >> we don't have any plans that i know of to change their i think we will just stick to that schedule >> i urge you to keep an eye on that if we have to execute that and it is not possible, we will regret that. now potential problems may not be confined to a small number of giant banks. the savings and loan crisis was using bailouts it is huge compared to tarp and

which the taxpayers got their money back with some interest. given the fates of small banks are more closely tied to the fates of small and medium sized businesses, that are often most at risk, what should we be worried about in regard to the need to bailout smaller numbers of banks if the pandemic continues. >> i guess i would say that we spent ten years, and the bank spent ten years strengthening their capital and their liquidity. so far it held up well we don't know where we are in this whole process so we will be continuing to, as you see from the stress test, continuing to do the things we need to do to assess the strength of the ba s banking system so far we don't see the problems that you're talking about been

smaller banks it has been a 30 year trend of consolidation and ban banks going out of business. i think they will bare too much of the burden here they have more exposure to real estate and smaller business that's are more vulnerable and have less resources to deal with this stress. so i think we'll be watching carefully to make regulatory suy adjustments to make it through this difficult time. >> thank you, one of the problems that we have in financial regulations is we seem to be fighting the last war. and in my limited amount of time left, we introduced new frame

work, and you disregarded the idea of employment and instead a wide range of indicators and i urge you to do that very publicly and transparently you can get different answers by choosing different measures. both for inflation and for our unemployment my time is up and i yield back >> thank you very much, i recognize the gentleman from kentucky, mr. bar, for five minutes. thank you i want to first start by responding to my friend's comments about bailouts i share his antipathy for what he describes as bailouts but i think it is important to point out that a bailout, the way that i look at it, implies that the government is saving businesses from mismanagement or the use of taxpayer funds in a use in a twha would promote

horrible hazard that is not what we have here. we have a congressional response to many state and local governments imposing restrictions on some of those may be warranted others may criticize restrictions as being over zealous. never the less this response from the cares act, or the ppe program, or the main street lending program seem more like a compensation i think it is important to take think about that distinction i want to ask chairman powell about main street. i think there is interest among borrowers to participate in this program. many businesses and lenders are reporting to us that the program is not working for them. so an argument can be made that

the program is not performing to it's full potential. last week they updated faqs and i heard that the updates are unlikely to move the needle. you mentioned that smaller loans for smaller businesses under a million dollars. the program may not be right for them, but chairman, i offer for your consideration that some of those businesses that would need a smaller loan, the ppe program doesn't really help them because they're payroll is fairly limited and they have larger amounts of debt. so my question initially would be is the fed considering publishing more targeted giants or for the smallest main stream homes. >> the limit now is 250,000. and we have little demand below a million as i told the chair awhile back. we're not seeing demand from very, very small loans that is because the facility,

the nature of the facility, it is larger size businesses. it is involving a lot of personal guarantees. you're lending to that person. and that is not a facility that we currently have. we have to start from scratch to develop that >> the feedback that we're getting is for the smaller loans that the lenders are telling us they would prefer to use their current structure. getting to that smaller level o loan, i want to talk about restrictions in the program, too. the restrictions they do prohibit many commercial real

estate borrowers they studied if they had recommendations for asset heavy borrowers. how did you come to this conclusion and is there ways to retool it so it works with real estate borrowers >> we hear these things, too, probably from the same people. we look for places where the banking system, the lending system, is not working for commercial real estate a big part of that is the cmbs market there is a couple problems with commercial mortgage backed securities and it is hard to pay and they have to get foreclosures so we look at other places and it's not easy to find places where we could have much of an impact >> i appreciated our

conversation earlier that secretary, i appreciate you and the communication with your team here on this issue and particularly cmbs. could you detail what treasury is doing in response to these challenges >> first, i'm sympathetic to the issue and we spent a lot of time trying to figure out if there is a way to structure a program with the fed there is a problem with limitations and additional debt. i think the best way to help many of these is with additional ppe funds so people can pay rend rent to the owners can pay their mortgage i now recognize miss abede for five minutes from ohio please unmute. >> thank you, madame

chairperson. so the witnesses, thank you. we heard a lot today about reopening the economy. we have also heard a lot about the pandemic health and safety. and director powell, you even used the words they go "hand in hand" and used the words and pointed to your mask all of that is part of it. so to you, mr. secretary, we recently learned that the white house had scrapped plans at the united states postal service to send approximately 650 milli$65n worth of masks through the mail, maybe that's because the president sees no value in it. you had a lot of involvement,

were you in that situation for scrapping the plan or being aware of it. >> i think i read something in the press about that alleged situation. i never in any of my task force meetings recall that being discussed or any plan that was scratched whatsoever it may have occurred in another part of the government, but i did not hear about it. >> would you be willing to look into it, most experts, scientists and medical, have all stated that wearing a mask is helpful in preventing the spread now that 200,000 people have died will you look into that? >> happy to and we'll get back to your staff. >> thank you very much my next question is certainly we know that when we talk about reopening the government, which you both agree if people are healthy and if they have health

care, then that, too, goes hand in hand with reopening the economy by having people be healthy enough to go back to work that is a yes or a no question director powell? >> yes, sure >> secretary >> yes, and i would add that up with of the reasons we liked the ppe is it kept employees connected to their biusinesses and allowed them to keep their health care. >> there was a brief submitted to the supreme court urging them to overturn the affordable care act that would strip 20 million americans of their health care in the midst of this historic pandemic that cost the lives of, we know today, more than 200,000 americans including stripping protection for pre-existing conditions kicking many younger adults off of their plans who are hearing now about how great their numbers are.

i have been in congress eight years and i voted against it dozens of times. what effect does stripping americans of their health care in the midst of this pandemic do to the economy >> i would not want to comment on a particular supreme court case, but as you mentioned health care is an important part of the health system -- >> excuse me, let me say it this way. do you think stripping health care or not having health care would be bad for the economy >> as you started with, i think that having health care coverage is an important basis for people to go to work. it's one of the reasons that people do work and it helps you, importantly, continue your work. >> would you say that's a yes? having health care would certain i will be a plus, or a positive, to having people

200 million people have died look at the numbers. if i look at african-americans making up 13% of the population but having almost 30-some percent positive results, 24% dieing don't you think health care plays into keeping people healthy? and the economy? >> yes, i do >> thank you chairman powell according to a transaction data of the secondary market, corporate credit facility, the federal reserve published on sunday the fed purchased corporate bonds of dozens of company that's are in poor financial condition apple has more than $200 billion cash in hand how does buying debt of corporate companies help further the fed's mandate and how does buying corporate debt of foreigned owned companies.

>> none of the markets extend any new credit to anybody. that is just buying an outstanding bond we're doing that to have a footprint in the after market. it would enable us to continue to have good financial conditions and allowing us to keep on staff. thank you, i now recognize mr. williams from texas for five minutes. thank you, madame chair. as most of you know i'm a small business owner i want to thank both of you for coming before the committee today. the treasury department and the federal reserve has worked in incredible speed to get resources in the hands of hard working american businesses. i applaud you both for your leadership and main street america also thanks you. some local governments in my direct are sitting on the money they receive from the

coronavirus relief fund because there is questions around what counts as an expense one would like to buy food for a local food pantry because of the food insecurity of the people in their neighborhood but they are not sure if this is insured. is a use for the coronavirus relief funds deemed a qualified expense so we can get the money spent. >> we will look into that question and get back to you we tried to give as much flexibility as we can and as part of the additional authorization to move forward we're inclined to use additional money for what has gone out to state and local governments.

>> chairman powell, i raised this issue and i wanted to get your perspective as well to make sure that everyone at the federal reserve is on the same page regarding business interruption insurance it would be a terrible precedent of the government temperatures in and changing the terms of an agreement between two private parties and would decimate the insurance industry i said before in texas we say a deal is a deal and the last time you were in front of this committee in june, you mentioned you were aware of this issue as it relates to fiscal stability i'm hoping we can get more substance on this issue because of the fed being involved in the federal institution. so my question would be can you please give us your thoughts on forcing insurance companies to ret retroactively cover business claims >> i don't think i have had a

conversation about that since our last visit in june, but let me check in on the current situation and come back to you >> thank you >> you both discussed the need for another economic stimulus package to come through congress we have done that today. many of the moment that we allocated has not yet been spent. the nonprofit committee for responsible federal budget estimates that the government has allocated $2.2 trillion of the $4 trillion that congress passed in covid relief mr. secretary you have been deeply involved in negotiating as we well know. as we discuss spending and money, how should we be viewing the economy to ensure that industries in most need of assistance will receive the money that we already allocated making it's way into the system? >> i think we're in a very different situation than we were last time. last time the entire economy was

shut down and we had to act quickly. they will be most set up by this situation. >> thank you, and i want to thank you again for your efforts and as someone on mainstreet, the economy is good, it's getting better, and attitudes of people in start ups are getting better i hope that we can look at liabilities for small and big businesses thank you again for your efforts, we appreciate it, and i yield my time back, thank you. thank you i now recognize the gentleman from washington, mr. heck, for five minutes >> thank you i want to discuss fiscal support and i want to address the announcement for the temperatures to make the

inflation target more symmetric. when i say this, the most important thang has happened for monetary policy and economic policy for 40 years in this country. we will have a bigger impact on absorbing beautiful -- your lip is in jeopardy it needs to be acknowledged, the significance that will result, as a result. so is there anything you want to say -- >> excuse me, speak right into the microphone so we can hear you clearly. >> i hope he was able to hear all of my confidence, can you hear me now, madame chair? >> yes >> thank you so thank you, chairman powell,

very much for the new framework. at the outset of this pandemic, you declared that this is the time to use the great fiscal power of the united states to do what we can to support the economy. we tried to get through this, congress responded by passing the cares act. and congress continues to deliver a further fiscal support. at your press conference on wednesday you said that the federal reserve projections for growth, inflation, and employment were assuming more fiscal support what size support were you assuming >> let me say that i think a big part of the good economic news that we have had results from the fiscal support that came with the cares act it deserves a lot of credit for keeping people spending and

business and household confidence high. we don't agree on a forecast individuals make different assumptio assumptions. most private sector forecasters are assuming a package will pas in the next few months i don't know if there is any particular number that i would give you from the fed. and if so, acknowledging that it assumes fiscal support, there must have been some assumption about the level of -- >> actually -- >> how else could you provide your projections >> i wish it were that simple. what we publish is the individual projections of the 17 people who vote, or sorry, participants on thefomc, and they're free to make assumptions on whatever they need.

we don't survey them on every little thing i would say that many, most, assume some fiscal action. but we didn't say, you know, we didn't create a table. i can't tell you what was assumed, but fiscal action un r underlies many current forecasts. >> what happened -- what happens to growth an unemployment if there is not support >> what has happened lately is that the economy proved resilient to the prodder spread of the disease and also to the expiration of the cares act. i will just tell you what i think the risk is. as some pointed out, savings are very high because of a number of things part of tf is the cares act. but there is still 11 million people unemployed. the risk is that over time they

go through those savings and they have not been able to find employment yet it will take awhile to get 11 million people back to work. their spending will decline. their ability to stay in their homes will decline, and the economy will feel those negative effects at some time president the econo the economy is recovering, and we don't know which of the forces will dominate >> with all due respect, mr. chairman, unless you're arguing the fiscal stimulus has no impact, is it not inescapable, there is no fiscal support, and growth will be lower >> yes, and i said that i think it will like i will be needed. i do defer to the administration and congress who have responsibility for this. i think it is likely that more fiscal support will be needed.

>> lastly -- >> thank you, the gentleman's time has expired >> thank you >> now i recognize the gentleman from arkansas, mr. hill, for five minutes >> thank you, madame chair thank you secretary mnuchin, chair powell, great to see you i want to associate myself with the remarks and in the days of fighting with the virus. we appreciate your health to restore the health of the american people. our family's belief in the american dream and in your own ways rebuilding the american economy. i want to talk for a minute for this issue for smaller businesses i plan on signing the discharge petition in the house today to move the bill to the house floor

that extends the ppe plan and clarifies the forgiveness aspects of that. it should have been done at the end of july, and i was proud i hope my democrat colleagues will join me in signs that discharge petition the ppe extension as secretary mnuchin outlined is necessary for having the tools for this recovery secondly, in my view, the pro o proposal by mr. rubio is critical it allows us to take the embedded loss and put it on a 20 year am at a 1% rate is an sba product.

it's really geared toward a hurricane and not to a national pandemic the third point is the main street program both you have know my views on this on friday, at 1:00 in a typical washington, d.c. issue, the fed released its frequently asked questions and dumped out to the public on friday afternoon that you would not pursue this asset based lending type approach for a different main street term sheet. mr. barr did a good job describing that. i think that can be done, chairman powell, to companies on sound footing, not able to reach credit on reasonable terms and in the concept of a backstop i want to press both of you that while it doesn't fit the main street term sheet you have today that took four mornths to stand

up, i still believe it's important. you had a key component in another washington key component in the frequently asked questions. you said at this time. i would urge you to reconsider your position and offer you each an opportunity to comment. mr. powell >> we have taken a very close look, but we're happy to continue the conversation. >> i really do believe it can be done in the right way. the three things i commented on, i address this lower loan size that the chair mentioned i do believe there's a solvent niche out there of portfolio lending that could be done on a sound basis that could offer liquidity for hospitality.

we saw very slow increases in business secretary mnuchin, you commented would like congress to give you the authority to incur risks as it relates to funding. you proposed to reprogram that money for other uses when we had a discussion of this in the oversight commission, we issued in our fourth report that we don't believe that you need any additional congressional authority to reprogram that and take additional risk could you comment on that please >> i don't think we need authorization to take additional risks and let me clarify i think the main street loans on general, we will be taking losses because i think this is basically being underwritten on

pre-coronavirus ebitda what i was suggesting is we would like to spend that money on other areas of the economy that could be better served. kid, job, more ppe, sba, long term loans and we do need congressional authority to use it in other areas. we have a lot of money leftover in the ppp that's been appropriated by congress that with simple legislation could allow many hard working small businesses to get a second loan. >> thank you both for your leadership i yields back. >> thank you i now recognize the gentleman from california, mr. vargas for five minutes >> thank you very much i appreciate it. i want to thank the secretary first and also the chairman for being here today i appreciate your testimony very much i have to say i've heard some pretty tortured language and

tortured logic from some of my colleagues today a member said that we're not bailing out businesses, quote, compensation for regulatory taking that sounds a lot like use my words against me when you say you won't for supreme court justice on election year for president. the reality is when you talk in absolute you get into these situations where logic is twisted to try to fit things and the other thing i heard today is we should pass the -- congress should pass the second cares act. we did that. we did that. we passed it it's called the h.e.r.o.e.s. act. i heard another colleague said we should do what the senate and pass it. the senate didn't pass a thing i heard today also was a pretty rosy picture of the economy. i don't want to put words in people's mouth but secretary, i

believe you said the economy, the economic recovery was strong i think the tens of millions of americans would disagree with that in fact, would say that the stock market is not the only economy. we have 11 million americans that are still out of work that lost their jobs. more than in the financial crisis i don't think they would agree that we've had this strong recovery i do agree with what chairman said that we won't get a full recovery until every one feels that they're safe from this virus. i think it is very important that we do everything we can to defeat it. unfortunately, up to now, i think the virus has been in charge i want to ask this, i've been watching what's been happening in europe. seems like they are starting to get a second wave. i'm very concerned that we may have a second wave in our own

country and i'm not sure that we're prepared for this. i also went back and did a lot of reading on the spanish flu and saw the second wave was the more devastating one not the first one but the sec wave of the spanish flu. could you comment, either one of you, with how prepared we are. what is our plan in case this comes roaring back >> i would just first comment on, i did say there's a strong recovery because when you close the economy and you reopen it, it is strong but there's still more work to do. as it relates to being prepared and i'm not a health professional although i'm sat on the task force. i think we have made major progress on vaccine, on viral, on testing i think on ppe, i think we have done a very good job of being prepared for the virus >> do we have a plan do you have a plan in case it

comes back the virus usually had some seasonally to it you would expect in the winter to come roaring back we have seen that before do you expect -- i don't want -- if it does come back, do we have a plan does the administration have a plan >> first, from an economic stand point, we do have a plan for the economy now and that's why we want more congressional appro l approval as it relates to the health and, yes, the administration and the task force does have a plan. executing that plan and major component is the vaccine development which is making great progress >> you've said until people feel they are not at risk, the economy won't come back. you could you elaborate more on that >> there's parts of the economy

that involve people getting together in groups that's travel, hospitality, entertainment. things like that i think some part of the population will be reluctant to continue in those activities until they feel confident that it will be safe. they won't get sick from doing so i think that's not, most of the economy, that's a piece of the economy. it's a reasonably substantial piece of the economy where a number of people, you know, millions of people are still not working and it will probably take some time for them to get back to work >> getting them back to work will depend on continued progress on the medical front, including ultimately a vaccine >> i think my time has expired i yield back thank you very much. >> thank you i now recognize the gentleman from georgia for five minutes. >> thank you

thank you for being here let me also echo the thanks for early on in this pandemic, especially with the ppp program the way our offices work together and your offices worked with the banks and our community to tailor this thing to where it would do something for the small businesses and as a result of that, one of the small banks in my district that only has two branches ended up making more ppp loans than one of the mjor national banks did nationwide. that's one of the many successes of the ppp but it's because of the engagement there i have two questions i'd like to respond so something my colleague from california brought up about the recovering economy. i think there are areas of this country, the economy is recovering strong. the state of georgia is one of those. our revenue reports came out a little over a week ago that ta