>> i shares. >> united health i think this is way overdone this is the one you want to buy on weakness. >> we're digesting what the fed chair had to say along with the treasury secretary talking about the pandemic response. the dow right now is down about 86 points. that does it for us. thank you so much for watching "the exchange" starts now. thank you, scott, and hi, everybody. the chorus is growing louder for congress to pass a stimulus bill as the fed chair powell now says it's essential with a court fight looming, is there any chance congress can compromise and push the bill through. we'll ask larry kudlow in a couple minutes apple down 20% from its highs. don't call it a bear market just yet, though. we'll look at the trend levels the stock is in danger of breaking cool day logic for carvana and it's time to go stupid

>> kelly, choppy it is, but not a lot of chop, all right if you a take look at the s&p 500, we're up about .1 of 1% at session highs, the s&p 500 was up roughly 22 points, and at the lows of the day, we were down about 11 points so we're still below that 58 average price in the s&p something to watch there as it tries to find some kind of upside momentum, trying to snap a four-day losing streak remember, the dow underperforming today in the nasdaq did see briefly negative territory. now, a sector to watch is the financials four-day losing streak for this particular sector, and you can see on a year-to-date basis, there is a relatively deem divi -- deep divide, a gap down 23% for the sector, and down near 40% for the bank stocks. what's outperforming in financials these days is exchange operators it's also broker-dealers, it's asset managers and insurance companies. those are the financials you want to watch. the bank stocks still very much

lagging, and the stock of the day so far, you heard scott wapner talking about it at the end of the show in "halftime report," amazon stock. after a 19% decline in recent highs, we've now bounced about 16% on the upside here kelly, with amazon stock these days, they're upgrading because of a recent pullback 94% of analysts have an outperform or buy rating on amazon just a couple holds in one sell. we'll see if amazon goes on the shopping list if a pullback continues. back to you. >> thank you very much, dominic chu. the calls for more government stimulus do continue to grow, but the markets have continued to sell off as it continues to suck the oxygen out of the room. today jerome powell and steve mnuchin addressed passing another relief >> let me say i think a big part

of the good economic news we have had results from the fiscal support that came with the cares act, so it deserves a lot of the credit for keeping people spending and keeping people's business confidence and household confidence high. i think it's likely more fiscal support will be needed >> the president and i remain committed to finding support for american workers and business. we continue to work with congress on a bipartisan basis to pass a phase 4 relief program. i believe a targeted package is still needed and the administration is ready to reach a bipartisan agreement >> and joining me now is larry kudlow he is the director, of course, of the national economic council. larry, welcome back. >> reporter: thank yo . >> thank you, kelly. >> let's start with whether we'll have another relief bill on the covid front it does seem to quote a lot of the d.c. people we talked to yesterday who said, listen, with how vicious the fight over the supreme court seat is going to be, there is no way congress

will cooperate on this bill now. do you think that analysis is right? >> i don't know. i don't want to get ahead of it. you can walk and chew gum at the same time, so it's not necessarily a given, but look, as you just heard secretary mnuchin, and it's important from the administration, from the president's standpoint, we have been asking for five or six assistance programs. i don't think recovery depends on the package, but i do think a targeted package could be a great help in shorthand we call it kids and jobs we wanted additional funds, for example, i believe 105 billion, kelly, all along to help open schools. any costs that are necessary for safety and security to help open the schools, which is absolutely vital for education, for psychology, for the economy. second, we also wanted to extend the assistance plan, the paid pp plan, to small businesses. we actually had money -- it's over $100 billion that could be

repurposed to go back into that plan i think the plan was very effective. i think it did save probably 50 million jobs and i think it's helping folks get back to work, better unemployment numbers than we suspected so those are just two items. there are other items we were happy to look at, but unfortunately, we couldn't reach agreement with the other side. and so that was before the judicial issues came up. so i'm just saying, i don't think one depends on the other, i just think we were at a stalemate and i wish we could break the stalemate because even though i think the economy is improving nicely, it could use help in some key targeted places >> larry, what do you think the macro impact is going to be? let's say the supreme court seat is filled in the next couple of months by republicans. what is the market's impact? what is the economic impact likely to be over the next 5, 10, 15 years, do you think >> that's a hard question, kelly. i think you're going to get a

conservative jurist. i think that the president is acting correctly with the senate, senate leader mcconnell. i don't know, in economic terms -- i don't want to go too deep into this, i'm not a judicial supreme court expert, i'm just saying in economic terms, when i look at these nominees for the court, i think of regulatory actions, which come up quite a bit. and i think, as you know, i prefer a lighter touch, a lighter foot onregulatory actions, especially economic regulatio regulations. that has been the trend. as you know, the trump administration has pushed very hard to roll back owners' regulations along with tax cuts, and it's given us tremendous prosperity so i'm going to assume that the nominee, whoever he or she may be, will continue a lighter touch on regulation. it doesn't mean no regulation, it just means a lighter touch,

maybe more sensitivity to business jobs in the economy but that's as far as it would go i don't think that's going to be a dominant factor in the outlook for the economy over the next longer run >> no, although i take your point, that it could take some time to play out let me shift back to what looms for the next couple of months. we have not just the kind of need to extend some kind of relief program, and as you've indicated, you guys are looking to maybe some targeted programs two, three, four, five, six of them i don't know whether that could advance, but we also need to cut those cr bills just the idea of funding the government and keeping it open can you explain, kind of, the politics of this which of these are bargaining chips? is anything, is everything on the table right now, or are we going to be able to see those things dealt with and the court seat as a separate fight >> i would say separate tracks, kelly. the cr, which is necessary to keep the government open, i think speaker pelosi and

secretary mnuchin decided several weeks ago that that would be a clean bill. it would not affect or include any of the potential targeted assistance plans for the broader cares act 3, 4, whatever cares act we're on so i think that runs a separate track. i think there is a broad agreement developing on the cr, but it's not completed yet there are still some matters that are up for grabs. i don't want to interfere with those negotiations, i don't want to speculate but the cr is to keep the government open. i believe they agreed to mid-december, i think, that's what the push is that's a good thing. nobody wants a government shutdown if we can avoid it. that is a separate action from the stimulus conversation, and it's a separate action from the judicial conversation. >> and finally, larry, because we can't go unless we talk about tiktok and what an odd,

strange -- i understand the reason why it's of essential national security importance, but i'm still confused about the deal shaping up. i think a lot of people are, what exactly the ownership structure is, who is the majority and who is not. what do you think is the main takeaway from -- that we should all have in mind when it comes to the process that's going on i don't know how to describe it. what are we to make of tiktok? is this a done deal and do you feel good about it >> i will echo what the president said the two key points, kelly, number one, security that is absolutely essential and this is being discussed, and it's being looked at intensely by review processes inside the government but security is essential. we do not want the chinese government or the communist party or the chinese military to have access to very significant and important personal information, which might open

the door to even more information. we want to stop that it can be done, but it's being looked at very, very carefully, and the bidders, principally oracle right now on the tech side, are working with us internally to sort that out. i can't give you a conclusion yet. the other point is ownership the president wants u.s. ownership of the new co, if there is a new co. i can't get ahead of that story, but that's being examined very, very carefully there is a process, it's ongoing, it's evolving i don't want to front-run,but think the president suggested some optimism about it, but it's not a done deal, that's for sure >> larry, this is one thing, though, i would love your philosophical stance on before we go very quickly we have the communist party mouthpiece saying, we don't mind what the u.s. is dealing with tiktok, it could be a

temperatutemplate dealing with nationals going forward. what happens if apple says we can play by our rules if tiktok can play by yours? >> we don't care what the chinese government says. they have said time and again that with respect to their private companies, or whatever, the quasi-public companies, but the government says they have a call, they have access by law on information of those companies they can call on it at any time. that is unsatisfactory to us with respect to operations in the u.s. again, the president has said this many times. secretary pompeo said it, mnuchin said it, i've said it, many others have said it that's a key point we're not going to accept anything less with respect to the tiktok deal or, for that matter, other deals. we are being tougher china has a terrible record here of hacking and cyber hacking and

interfering and espionage, and we talked about structural changes in the trade deal with respect to ip theft and forced transfers of technology. the trade deal is being engaged, but i'm saying on this particular deal with respect to bytedance and tiktok and walmart and/or ke oracle, these are key considerations we have to have those considerations i think the american public doesn't want anything less it's a matter of protecting security by the way, we've argued, i've argued we have to take a look very carefully now at chinese companies who are listed here in the united states. we had a presidential memo on this from a financial working group that the issues of fraud and lack of transparency down through the years as raised by the public accounting board and the sec are going to have to be resolved in one year if they're not resolved, and that includes backup papers, then we will have to look at delisting some of these companies that don't meet our

criteria i just want to say that on all these matters, we're trying to protect the health and safety of the u.s. and the economy i mean, right now, coming out of this dreadful pandemic contraction, we're still dealing with it, the economy is coming back there is a v-shaped recovery you've heard me say that before, and i think the data shows that. we just had great numbers on living standards, on household wealth, today we had good numbers on housing sales that's excellent we think this is going to go forward with or without a stimulus package, but overhanging this, with our dealings with china, we must protect american workers, manufacturing, technology. we must protect our family jewels, we must protect our innovative efforts we're the most inventive country in the world when it comes to technology technology drives the economy these days >> 100%, yeah. >> you certainly can't blame us

for being even more careful. i think it's been lax in the administrations and president trump has tightened it enormous, and this is part of that >> i'll put it with the supreme court for what it means for internationals and more. larry kudlow, thank you for your time today >> thanks, kelly the nasdaq is leading the major averages today but it's still down 7% this month while the qqq has the nasdaq 500 down 8%. the nasdaq 500 could fall more than 25% from its peak for more let's bring in j.j. j.j. odon and michael kushner is head of management h.l., i'll begin with you. do you share this concern about where the tech sector is heading, and where do you think

the economy is going overall >> yeah, i think -- we saw the unfortunate news we got about the passing of justice ginsburg coupled with -- and right now we do think the i.t. sector is poised for some more drawback. we do like the sector going forward. obviously we saw the adoption of a lot of this work-from-home technology and we see that continuing as we get through this pandemic, but we do see volatility on the horizon. >> michael kushner, what about you? we just heard mr. kudlow say he believes the v-shaped recovery is intact. are you in that camp, and what happens in the months ahead now if there's not going to be at least a major -- another major stimulus bill? >> well, the economy does seem to be doing steadily better.

easy financial conditions, low interest rates both nominal and real are definitely supporting the economy. the sector is coming back. consumer spending has been riding on the back of all these stimulus checks by the government the question is can it sustain itself indefinitely into the future right now it looks good, but the best big bounce in q2, kq3 are optimistic going forward optimistic but the pace of improvement is likely to slow down there are still sectors of the economy that are challenged. transportation, airlines, lodging, travel, leisure are still well below subpar in terms of mobility. and until that gets better, which is probably only going to be whether a vaccine or something close to that shows up, will we get fully back to where we are but right now we are on a nice upward trajectory.

>> i know. aj, i certainly hope it stays that way i'll ask you why you prefer non-u.s. equities over u.s. equities right now >> just on the prior comments, facing a weakened dollar, we prefer that that region has better -- or lower priced earnings ratios with comparison to earnings per share. with that being said, we see the developed u.s. dollar performing better from an evaluation perspective -- i'm sorry, developed non-dollar performing from a better perspective than u.s. dollar equities >> thank you, gentlemen, we'll leave it there still coming up, the uk imposing new restrictions as they're at a perilous turning point following the surge of covid cases. is this a precursor of what

could happen here or is the u.s. better prepared? plus the battle of tesla day has been building, but elon musk put cold water on it and the stock is dropping. where the stock is headed. putting the pedal to the metal. look at carvana shares up 35% today after already a monstrous year those details ahead on "the exchange." give you my world ♪

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welcome back 268 days since the pandemic started now, and we're starting to see familiar and troubling case patterns emerge, both here and abroad this as the death toll in the u.s. tops 200,000, the highest in the world meg tirrell is here with the very latest. what do we know, meg >> hi, kelly let's take a look at europe to start. they are in the midst of what looks like a second wave if you take a look at the new daily case counts in countries like spain, france and the uk, you can see they are steadily ticking up and the uk, of course, today implementing new measures, encouraging folks who can work from home to do so, closing bars and restaurants earlier. this as we are starting to see cases ticking up in the united states now as well and if this trend continues, this would be the country's third wave in terms of daily

case counts. 13 states now are seeing more than 25% growth in new daily cases week over week those are the dark yellow states there, primarily in the middle of the country dr. fauci today telling cnn that we need to get cases much lower before october, november and december here's why >> if we don't get that baseline down sharply to a very low level, and the reason we need it there is because when you have a very low baseline and you start to get the blips, as i call them, you don't want them to turn into surges or rebounds when you have a lot of cases floating around, it's much more difficult to contain that. >> but, kelly, of course, the trends are going in the wrong direction for a number of states which are hitting new peaks in daily new case counts. three states here, minnesota, utah and wisconsin, all seeing more than 50% growth in their

7-day average of new daily case counts we need to return to the things we've been told to do this entire time, distancing, masks, hygiene, all of those things they say work, we just need to implement them in time to try to make a dent in this before fall, kelly. >> is there anything we've learned from europe in that regard, or even as we watch the uk try to figure out what they can do to slow the same thing from happening here? >> if you look at these kinds of restrictions they're putting in place, it's clearly the places where people are gathering indoors, restaurants, bars, workplaces we know that being inside is more dangerous than being outside in terms of the spread of this disease. so trying to curb that activity as much as possible is what people are trying to do, but that gets harder as it gets colder and we can't do as much outside. so that's the main concern >> absolutely. meg, thank you very much meg tirrell bringing us up to speed with the latest on the pandemic front coming up, from narrative

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welcome back to "the exchange." here's where we stand on the markets, down 157 at the lows, 139 at the highs and fractionally lower as i speak. the nasdaq the outperformer with a pretty nice 90-point gain. that continues the pattern so far this week where it has been the best of the three major averages banks one of the weakest spots once again today. let's get to sue herera for our news update at this hour sue? >> here's what's happening at this hour. more than 200,000 americans have now died of covid-19 that's according to johns hopkins university more than half of those deaths have been in the last four

months it comes as cases are once again on the rise, in fact, new york and new jersey adding five more states to their quarantine list. britain reporting 4700 deaths today, this the highest since july they call for a tightening on their coronavirus restrictions tropical storm beta has been downgraded to a tropical depression heavy rains are expected to continue moving east and north as the week continues. voters in maine will become the first to rank their choices as who should become president of the united states a top court denying a petition to block the new voting system you are up to date, kell i'll send it back to you >> thanks very much, sue we're just hours from tesla's battery day. elon musk tried to temper

super-charged expectations musk has been hyping up battery day since april saying, quote, i think it will be one of the most exciting days in tesla's history. then on june 21st, he took to twitter saying it will include a tour of the tesla system, and then said many exciting things will be unveiled on battery day. last night he cautioned whatever is revealed today will not reach serious high volume production until 2022 so are investors' expectations about to short-circuit here? with me now, wesley and joe osha at jmp securities. wonderful to have you both here. joe, i'll start with you what did you make of musk's tweet last night >> i think the expectations have clearly gotten out of hand, but the people who followed this closely really weren't expecting some of the big new technologies to ramp for a couple years, anyway i don't think this is a big surprise, to be honest >> okay. i don't know, steve, i thought it was interesting he had to

come out and kind of -- why is he playing it down, steve? why not hype it up what do you read into this >> looking at the stock and saying $400 billion, that's pretty nosebleedy high it's going to be a big announcement for four reasons. first, they're announcing a new form factor that should enable them to lower prices substantially over the next two years. second, they're going to provide what i believe will be a million-mile battery one of the major concerns about buying an electric vehicle is would i have to replace my battery in five or seven or eight years? with a million-mile battery, that concern goes out the window third, this appears to be the greenest battery ever made, removing the cobalt from it. those are three big advances at the nails those, that would be impressive. but i think the fourth thing he hinted at was even more potentially revolutionary, and that is will tesla begin to go

into the utility business? as you know, they've already sold mega batteries in south australia and other parts of the world that could be a foot into the door of this new area. they've also applied for the right to become a utility in the uk and actually have received licenses to start that in western europe so all told, tesla is making some pretty bold steps here. >> joe, that said, you have a market perform rating on the stock, and a lot of these expectations are already priced in if i know about the million-mile battery and utility thing and everything else going on, trust me, everyone investing in tesla also knows are expectations too high? >> look, we think the stock is fairly valued for the intermediate term. i downgraded it to neutral at $300 adjusted. but look, i agree. tesla is going to being basically a taker of other people's technologies, pan sasoc

and satl the dry form technology they've gotten from maxwell, so i don't want to under plplay the significance of this at all, but expecting it to go into production tomorrow is a little silly. but tesla remains an independent battery manufacturer of all time, and that's a pretty big deal >> we're talking about a quarter of the cost of an electric vehicle being the battery. if tesla wants to stay ahead of the curve in terms of all the competition that's coming into the market, both the fact that it can reduce costs, make it sort of a greener battery that doesn't require as much cobalt and different input material, those are all important long-run competitive issues, right? >> look, absolutely. whoever controls the cost curve on electric batteries is going to win the ev vehicle race mr. musk has done two things that were incredibly smart here.

first, he was the very first person to take the production of batteries in-house, lowering their cost structure dramatically over vw and their other major competitors. but here's the part most people aren't focusing on we're heading into a new phase globally, which is the electrification of everything. cars, buses, airplanes, everything there is going to be a large global dearth of lithium ion batteries. so he's not only bringing the cost in-house, he wants to make sure he has production when others don't two or three years from now, people will say, that guy was absolutely on the cutting edge >> yeah, and i know his former colleague is also trying to recycle batteries, even cell phone batteries, to address this issue. we look forward to hearing what's going to be announced today and the changes it could

portend. joseph osha and michael, thank you. plus carvana is going the other direction and soaring as they give a very rosy outlook. we have stock at 32% today temployees are working in a pretty unexpected place. we'll show you that after this you can't predict the future. but a resilient business can be ready for it. a digital foundation from vmware helps you redefine what's possible... now. from the hospital shifting to remote patient care in just 48 hours...

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welcome back let's catch you up on a couple

stories that should definitely be on your radar today it is time for "rapid fire." jon fortt, julia boorstin and michael santoli. welcome, everybody the "global times" publishing an editorial calling the tiktok deal unfair. on "squawk box" this morning, here's his take on the proceedings. >> the whole thing is a crock. it starts, obviously, simply to say we want to protect the security of americans for anything that could happen to them by using tiktok it has now morphed into this kind of ludicrous kind of game match between tossing ownership here, control there, et cetera, et cetera. it's just -- its original aims

are out the window and in has just come a whole political mishmash >> what do you think, jon fortt, is he being too unfair >> nope. i've been saying this for about a week this deal is ridiculous. it should be about protecting the data of american citizens and protecting the environment for speech and ideas, and making sure between the cloud infrastructure and policing of the algorithm that those two things happen. the way you do that is by making rules that apply to everyone about where u.s. citizen data has to reside, how algorithms have to work instead of doing that, the administration has tried this kind of horse trading, point by point, situation by situation, i don't know, horse trading where the president says one thing one day and something completely different another day. it's a mess. >> i asked derek scissors about this yesterday he said, i see how this could be

achieved i said how, and he said they could step down from the board and presumably that would be a warning sign to the rest of us that something was amiss i agree with you, i share some skepticism about that. >> there are like canaries from the coal mine built into this that sends some kind of signal that's not how american data works. put some rules in to protect it. if you want winnie the pooh from tiktok, put rules and policing in to do that. the president can't do that on a point-by point, day-by day basis. that's no way to run an economy. >> julia, is this a sign of something much more philosophical that's coming? >> this is an awkward effort at trying to figure out if a deal can be done, because as jon pointed out, this is a negotiation by two sides, china and the u.s., both governments want to show that they're win

winning. it's unclear if this deal with ever happen, because china wants to show that bytedance still has some significance in this company with china, and president trump wants to show that they are not held what the u.s. is saying is that bytedance, if you take into account that bytedance is 40% owned by u.s. investors, then you can get to over 50% u.s. ownership. a lot of debate here about what it will even take for this deal to be approved >> my hypothesis is the ownership structure is just complicated enough that it gives everybody the chance to say they won, which is the only way this thing gets resolved, right >> but that's not a win. that's horrible. there is actual data and actual rule of law at stake here. this whole talk about american ownership, a lot of these vc firms, they don't actually own

all of the shares here they've got foreign investors who have their money in this as well this isn't about american ownership. plus, i don't care -- i don't trust every american i want rules that protect my data and protect the environment for free speech. just because american is on it doesn't mean it's good there has to be rule of law. >> i think these are such good points -- sorry, carvana, we're not going to talk about you today. let's skip ahead and talk about trading floors to tents, what's going to at bridgewater. the world's largest hedge fund has set up shop in the woods near its headquarters. it has webcams and even software to cut out the sounds of wildlife even during zoom calls, mike, which is my favorite part. we're talking about china. usually you see photos like this and i think, yeah, if they came up with something crazy or

paternalistic, it's probably china or bridgewater >> essentially really trying to elevate what the project of the firm is, you know, and saying it's so essential we have to essentially create this encampment in order for people to pursue this work. it's always amazing. i know it's not for a tremendous number of employees that are in this mode right now. there are thousands of bridgewater employees. a lot of people wonder why are there so many thousands of bridgewater employees because it is a relatively small number of products, macro box type strategies but it is sort of fascinating and shows you how much kind of money is in the firm, is in the business that they can just backstop whatever they feel they need to do to stay in power. >> let me go backwards for a second because i would like your take on this carvana move today. it's a monster stock today but they've had a monster year so i understand why they say we're a big player in this

upsurge of players why do you think there's been so much movement here >> a huge bulge in used car buying in general happening. everybody wants to do to a remote basis, you don't want to go out and look for it, and they're a middleman. a $4 billion market cap, it's basically ebay's market cap. ebay has a tremendous business of selling used cars, acting as an auction site for them and has for many years it's fascinating why this market wants to pure play only. it doesn't want some other business tucked into a larger one. >> carvana is a business model that the car businesses don't want to exist. it only sells used cars because the dealer has a monopoly on selling used cars. i look at gm and say maybe gm should just sell new cars fully online and unlock carvana for used cars in the future. >> i think carvana is uber and

lyft's rides lost. eventhough the gap between wholesale and retail used car prices is narrowing, they're still able to do well. that suggests there's something in the brand and something in the service. if you haven't heard the term stooping, it's cruising through instagram. it's what's old is new again >> it's used and recycling, kelly. we talk about the stories of people moving from the city to the suburbs, and this seems like a perfect example that people are in a rush to get out of their apartment and move somewhere where they might have a backyard and some land, and this is some way to maybe pass on a piece of furniture they

didn't want to take to this next phase of life to their neighbors. it's interesting to see how social media platforms are tapping into this, facebook being a perfect example. >> mike, they do have it in the city it works in urban areas. >> we've done this without the app for a long time. you just walk the streets and you see things here's a fascinating dynamic, which is some old tattered coffee table that somebody else put on the sidewalk somehow is much more attractive than if that same thing was sitting in your home for five years there's this serendipity effect. >> next billion-dollar idea, mike, couchvana. white glove service delivered. thank you, everybody coming up, if you want to know what's driving market volatility, look no further than the fed. that's according to my next guest who joins us autbo what went wrong and what he would like to see going forward. stay here.

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welcome back to "the exchange." it goes back to the fed meeting last wednesday since then we've dropped more than 3% and my next guest says it's no coincidence. joining me now is david servos he's at jeffries did you see these comments as well >> i did, and i'm pretty surprised, kelly charlie was one of the original price level targeters, make up for past mistakes, let bygones be bygones with price targeting. he knows the market is expecting more but he's not ready to give it neil kashkari really summed it up in his friday piece which i think all of your readers should have a read of he said, we're basing rates on assessments, still assessments they will get back

up to 2% that assessment as well as assessment on the labor market have just been kind of bad assessments on the fed for the last two decades i'm kind of -- i'm very taken aback by what happened >> let me lay this out and correct me if i'm wrong. what you would like to see is them saying we're going to let inflation average out for three years, then we would raise interest rates for instance, just to give people a framework with what they're dealing with on the other hand, evans came out today and said, we could start raising framework before we average at 2% what they're really trying to do is let things run hot, so to speak. >> you say that, and we thought that, and i thought charlie was on that side i thought a lot of these guys were on that side. we knew rob kaplan probably wasn't based on his comments just the idea we're not going to

some commitment to hit this average inflation target for a time say three years average inflation at 2% before we move, as opposed to an assessment that we will likely be hitting average inflation of 2% over the next two or three years. >> right, because assessments are so wrong yeah, yeah >> yeah. we're going back to kind of the nyru-based world to saying, we think inflation will pick up two or three quarters down the road, so we'll fight early i thought that's what we got away from, skmoneand honestly, , we didn't get away from that, and i think the market is kind of disappointed. >> let's end it here because we will hear from the fed chair tomorrow, i believe also on thursday he's on capitol hill this is not the kind of environment where he would say the following, but what could he say to tell market participants that the fed will go the direction you're suggesting rather than what you're seeing take place >> i think something along the

lines, kelly, of, this is work in progress, this is a compromise we're still working on communication. we still want this average inflation target regime to take hold -- just reiterating it and talking about how the communication process is a work in i think the market will accept that we can go into december and lead the election behind and the politics behind of what might be happening behind the scenes and get to real average inflation target with a look back with sort of not letting bygones be bygones. i think that's something for nec year hopefully that happens >> dave, thanks so much for joining join ing me still ahead, apple down more than 10% in the past month 20% from its highs

my next guest says the stock meuld be facing make ore break monthe tells us why in a minute. give you my world ♪

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shares of apple struggles to stay down today. the tech giant may be facing make or break moment as they approach a key technical level paul, it's good to see you what are you watching? >> the stock, it's fallen 20% from its high which is considered a bear market from technical perspective. given that apple is bigger than a lot of international benchmark indices. that kind of measurement should be applied here. the stock did just bounce in its

up trend yesterday we saw that nice reversal. the rally came short of its 50-day moving average. i think when you're looking at apple, the next few days will tell you the direction of whether this stock will balance or see what is a typical bear market for the stock which would be an additional 18% down side from here. the 50 day is just under 111 we have been above and below that throughout the day. when the nasdaq is up as much as it is today, apple just hanging in there with a modest gain, it's not the type of momentum you wanted to see follow through from yesterday's reversal. >> there's two resets that could be happening one is the broader up trend. the other is valuation one apple's price to earnings have expanded much of late. the share price would be under

84 >> it's really interesting is for years we always compare apple to its valuation to the market and versus other sectors. we often would say if apple was like a consumer staple stock, once buffet got into it, it was very undervalued you look at the stock now, it would have to trade down about 35% from current levels. things have changed for apple. it has taken on more of a services approach and really embracing the subscription revenue model. it's not the cheap stock it was a year ago >> even as we watch apple battling it out for direction, are the other tech stocks at a similar junction >> i think we saw in july and august is tech really got ahead of itself. with very little in the way of a fundamental driver behind it i think we saw what we saw is 11 straight months of growth which is a record.

it's never happened before now we're seeing some give back here which up until yesterday, growth was under performing value. >> final question here, as you describe september, it has been this shift towards the value stock. the supreme court vacancy, the uk covid count it concerns here >> i think one of the encouraging aspects is school have been back in session for a

month now. not fully but around the country schools are going back in. wa we have seen is national case counts of covid haven't increased. positivity levels are down and hospitalizations are down. not saying this is an all clear but it's trending in the right direction here that gives us encouragement for a broader economic perspective >> perhaps to give growth investors some caution to think about. we'll see. thank you so much for joining us appreciate it. >> thank, kelly. that does it for us here don't go anywhere. coming up, just as covid case counts surge, the cruise industry has submitted recommendations to the cdc in hopes of setting sail from the u.s. before year end the ceos of royal caribbean and norwegian join us to discuss you can't predict the future.

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welcome to "power lunch. glad you could join us on this lovely tuesday in the fall stocks are higher now. both election worries, coronavirus fears hang over wall street and the investment community. cruise lines are pushing forward with new restrictions to t get back in the water before the end of the career. we'll talk to ceos of royal caribbean and norwegian. as the uk deals now with an influx of coronavirus cases, worries of a second wave herin