>> jim >> disney. they're reopening disney hong kong over the weekend. a catalyst in the past few months good entry point here. >> trb >> stewart information systems nine times earnings and real estate play. i love it. >> doc, quick. >> we bought lvs during the show, scott. lvs. >> thanks, everybody "the exchange" is now. and thank you, scott here's what's ahead, everybody choppy ride for stocks today the s&p at one point giving up its gains for the year but big turn around in stocks like apple led us back into the green we'll look at the forces tugging this market in both directions from top ceos to fed to wall street, everyone warning that a stimulus stalemate is bad for the economy. some disagree and we'll debate if grid lock is good for the stock market a supercharge back teaming up against apple, united offers

covid tests and companies are suing over chinese tariffs that's all ahead we begin with the markets and bob pisani with the very latest for us >> we're up near the highs today and very, very choppy trading. goldman, microsoft helping the dow out. not a lot of conviction out there and that's a problem take a look at our major movers here s&p 500 look at the mega cap names here we're in a 50-point trading range on the s&p today that's a lot down as low as 32.10 early on and that's a 60-point range. in and out all these mega cap names were negative at the open and then moved into positive territory. this is what i'm talking about, lack of cand they go in the sam direction all the time apple, microsoft, amazon generally down trend apple and facebook right near two-month lows at the open we saw. stay-at-home beneficiaries they

have been big movers to the upside but a lot of these names your electronic arts and even docusign these names are mostly sideways in the last month or two and in some cases even trending down a little bit i would say that with slack trending down generally over here else where very interesting moves in the etf country movers today. so mexico, brazil, turkey. very interesting heavy volume and big moves on the upside. not sure what's going on here. but the dollar has been up four days in a row. weaker local currencies would make the export oriented countries more valuable. any materials that they have that are exported or goods would be much more valuable. i think the dollar strength may be playing, helping some of these countries in terms of making their local currencies a bit weaker again, the key problem here, lack of conviction and dominated and still trying to figure out what the right prices for a lot of these stocks.

>> not a small challenge often bob, thank you very much bob pisani. today's action has seen the battle between gains and losses. the tech heavy nasdaq is down more than 9% the s&p 500 is down around 7% and the dow by about 6% as investors digest a resurgeance in covid cases and the next stimulus bill remains in limbo for more on the markets, let's bring in jim and jason brady of thornburg investment management. matthew, i looked at your notes here and i see one line and q3 was awesome and q4 is going to be tough how tough and have we already priced the toughness in? >> no, we think we could see more corrective price action but we would look at it opportunistically. this market has been expensive for quite a while now. we dropped 10% on the valuation of the market in terms of p/e

ratio. they're still growing right now and the analyst community still sees a recovery in 2021 and we do, as well. you have to be selective we like high-quality stocks. some tech names in particular that we're seeing before we actually like those as good earnings growth engines and those are where we are hiding in right now amidst this volatil y volatility >> you're looking to the credit markets for a tell here. what are they saying to you? >> well, you know where we sit with some major indexes there is not too different than when the fed stepped in in april. so, it's not only been sideways for that amount of time, although it is starting to trend down the massive amount of issuance is starting to weigh on the market a bit the other piece is recovery values are coming in this year lower than they've been in 25 years plus so, i think it's a pretty dangerous ride out there in credit >> so, that's interesting. let's kind of stay here for a moment because you could argue that, you know, parts of credit have the same dynamics as parts of the stock market.

so, if credit is not holding up, as well, maybe suggesting it was priced too low or, you know what i'm trying to say. here's my question for the stock market then are we still too high does the 10% or so pull back this month tell you they are on the same page or not >> i think what you see in the stock market relative a divergence the new utilities of some of the tech names where earnings are excellent but driven by p/e expansion. it's not as though apple and microsoft are dependent on the debt market for funding. they should have plenty of cash. but about half of the small and mid cap universe is not profitable here and there's a lot of leverage. what the fed has done is actually put more leverage in the system and that makes it even more vulnerable this is the bifurcation we've seen and for us at thornburg we think you need to have balance

in your portfolio across these different names. >> you can stick with the dividend paying stocks as one area of opportunity. you always have to be careful if the dividend is high for the wrong reason let me turn back to you, matthew. i saw you nodding in agreement there as we were talking about the products powell said we have done everything we could think of trying to push it on to congress but what happens now if some of these problems do become persistent for corporate america? >> yeah, i think it goes back t the credit markets and high yield looks very rich to us. default rates in our view continue to rise 8% right now we think they go to about 12%. high yield spreads at 500 basis points are not pricing that in and really the biggest beneficiary cross asset right of now powell and the fed and what they've done is high yield so, we believe that that liquidity bridge is being built

and it doesn't have a destination yet. and we really covid under control and we don't want to see the second waves globally until we really get the break through on the health care front, we're cautious on credit and we think the fiscal policy catalyst is when you should fade we think that's not going to be something that will develop in the near term. >> all right thank you, both. appreciate it today. matthew and jason brady talking us through these markets let's drill down on tech right now the best performing sector and session highs with the nasdaq up 115 points but the biggest drag on the nasdaq yesterday. in fact the ongoing correction is not the triple qs and nasdaq down 10% this month and my next guest, there is a theme. my next guest says the pain isn't over another 10% downside from these levels for tech stocks joining me is paul meeks portfolio manager at independent solutions we s wealth manageme. paul, good to have you

why isn't what you've seen so far enough >> well, the way i look at it is these stocks have done incredibly well, particularly in my sector. you know, 2019 up 30% to 40% and then right before covid another screaming victory and even during c orcovid because ty were seen as remote work and remote school and remote play opportunities that have done well we have only had this correction since labor day and even with companies that have strong fundamentals and i'm not making a fundamental call, i would still think where their valuations were, where their valuations still are that there is some downside risk. >> it was interesting to hear our last guest differentiate from the more vulnerable parts of the market. these are utilities more or less reliable cash flow and they don't need to rely on the debt markets. doesn't that argue for them outperforming or holding relativity well here >> well, i do think that investors who are investing not

just u.s. but global equity portfolios could start to build a tech allocation because i think at full strength, at full weight you probably want to have 30 to 40 to maybe even 50% of your portfolio represented by the technology sector. and, again, the fundamentals here are pretty strong and, yes, over the long term we will do very, very well, particularly with interest rates pinned to the floor for the next couple years they just give us a little bit of break right. we have only 40 days until the election and real nastiness going on with the chinese which impacts my sector and an opportunity to get in lower. >> let's talk about some of the stocks you pick up on further weakness one is micron. >> yeah, so micron is a leader in the semiconductor industry. everybody knows it it's a contrarrian call and i admit that the quarter ended august which will be reported in

a few days will be potentially poor i actually think the quarter ended november not so good but out of all the stocks that i cover, particularly the larger cap names, i think this one can double in price where the other stocks, even though i love their fundamentals, not as much upside >> what would be on your list even if it is a little less attractive >> i think a couple companies that have given us fresh enough data so we can feel good about them adobe recently, invidia, amd and even roku. i would highlight those four that if you were underweight the sector we would know enough and know enough about these companies that they could be good buys. >> let me close by asking about roku in particular a higher multiple one. why do you like it >> so, roku seems to have a very long runway of opportunity and the company is growing very fast and when they announced their numbers, they just don't beat the numbers. they crush the numbers and then guide aggressive upwards

so, i think with their fairly small market share today over time that they can get a bigger, bigger piece of the digital advertising market, it could be really an extraordinary opportunity. not a cheap stock as you said, kelly, but a good opportunity. i see a lot of legs left in the story. >> to reiterate, you're waiting until the stocks come down a little bit more even with your long-term positive view. paul, thanks for joining us today. paul meeks, greatly appreciate it still ahead from the fed chair to the treasury secretary to wall street, the calls for action on a stimulus plan are growing louder what happens if we don't get one? we'll explore that housing remains a hot part of the economy and ways to play it we'll speak with the ceo of american homes for rent. the stock is up 50% off its lows spotify, match and epic join forces to take on apple. that's all ahead on "the exchange." don't go anywhere. you can't predict the future.

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xfinity is your home for the return of live sports. welcome back to "the exchange." momentum continues to build for another round of stimulus from washington on "squawk box" this morning. brian moynihan voiced his support. >> in my view, the stimulus, though, has to be aimed much

more precisely than the past it has to be aimed at the people who are still unemployed and has to be named at the performance venues and restaurants and another round of ppp would be helpful to help those restaurants. >> a lack of a stimulus package so far forcing goldman sachs to cut its forecast today it will reduce disposal income in q4. well, i think it would help to do more quantitative easing i'm not sure nearly as supporting as fiscal policy implying there that congress should act can the economy hold up without stimulus well, joining me now michelle mier michelle, great to have you. what's in your best-case projection at this point how do you see the year shaping up >> yeah, so, ever since we came back from the labor day holiday we assumed that the political environment would make it quite

difficult to get another round of stimulus through. we changed our forecast back then to pencil in a 3% growth piece for q4 and comes off of a growth rate in the third quarter. certainly some slowing there in terms of the economy, but still expanding. and the way that i would characterize is it the lack of another round of stimulus doesn't destabilize the economy, but it does create a speed bump. and i think that's what we're going to end up and the high-frequency data around the consumer >> how far are we from the prepandemic gdp level. the huge rebound in the third but do we need more gdp growth to get back to where we were 3% to 4% does not sound like a lot more right now >> slowly crawling along to put this into perspective, if we're right on the third quarter, we get something like

that 27% annuia annualized incr will have retraced half of the decline. that's considerable. that's a lot of progress that has been made. but still the other halfway to go and we do think that will be slower and a bit more bumpy and will, in part, be a function of policy both monetary but even probably more so fiscal given the ability of fiscal policy to be more targeted >> listen, half of the decline is a long ways to go i mean, i'm surprised it's still that much. it does speak to the need to close it quickly so that unemployment doesn't remain high and all of that sort of thing. is one of the problems, though, we need more specificity on what would be helpful from congress from your point of view and the fed's point of view and others, do anything, any little thing would help no, we need something of a 1.2 to $2 trillion size? >> i think in the beginning stages of the crisis it was to

anything get money out there as quickly as possible and provide a floor for the economy and offset the loss of private sector output. but now it's about creating targeted response for fiscal policy and particularly trying to get at the parts of the economy that have been hit the hardest. largely in the services part very high levels of unemployment and covid has created these real bifurcations in the economy. when you think how consumers are allocating cash again. they're buying durable goods and buying housing and household appliances and buying cars and frankly not enough capacity there but too much capacity in the services economy in terms of travel and in terms of entertainment services so, that's a part of the economy that needs the stimulus right now and needs the support to kind of just bridge the gap until demand can shift back to those types of services. >> that's a great way to illustrate it. final question on the housing front which has been so hopeful. we'll talk more about it in a

moment can it do more of the heavy lifting to help the whole economy recover. it is redistributed and doesn't address the chronic problems going on but just mathematically speaking can it close the gap to get back to where we were? >> it already is if you think about the level of home sales and we just got data for new home sales and excess at the pace we had prior to covid for mortgage applications which are more leading so, i think housing is contributing it's part of this balance and will continue to help in the near term. but that doesn't solve for the fact that there's been a good part of the economy that has been significantly below their capacity for a while as a result of covid the balance in housing and autos and the balance in general to accommodate the increase in demand for things. it helps and i think it's been driving the growth but it's not sufficient. so, to fully close the gap, to fully get back to where we were previously, it will take time

and it will take healing in the economy and hopefully a vaccine and ability for people to reengage and in the interim, you need some sort of safety net still to provide that cushion and that's where i think the discussion, the debate seems to be in washington is how to design that properly >> 100%. we'll see if we get anything in the near term. we appreciate it michelle meyer with bank of america global research. the gridlock grind a stalemate in washington, could it be an ideal scenario for the, mats or undermine the nation's ability to recover from covid. we'll debate it. another ev company hits the market we have the details coming up in rapid fire stay with us that's what my dad does.

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but we've been up 1% and down 1% and back up 1% which is where we sit right now all morning long the s&p 500 also 1% and 34 points it's at 32.71 right now and the nasdaq outperforming of 1.1% 122 points at 10755. you can't guess but see it behind me so you can guess utility in the leadership position really bizarre technology more familiar looking there 1.5% gain and financials and materials also battling it out for third place. again, not a clear-cut picture of these gains and losses. health care is the only sector in the red right now down about 0.1% here are some of the individual movers we're following goldman sachs is moving higher following a buy at ubs several catalysts including efficiency efforts at the company. goldman is up nearly 6% today and that alone helps explain why

the financials are so strong penn national dropping after a public offering and gets a rating cut and down nearly 7% today. moving to neutral on the company based on its leverage and its stretch valuation. carmax shares are deep in the red. while the company just reported strong results, investors seem to be concerned about their modest sales bump relative to the new online competitor carvanaa giving up 10% of its value today, 95 and change let's get to sue herera for our cnbc news update. >> hello, everybody. here's what's happening at this hour united kingdom reporting its highest daily increase in coronavirus cases since the pandemic started the testing capacity has increased over the last six months but in just one week cases surged 95% the recent spike in cases led the uk to issue more virus restrictions earlier this week. senate majority leader mitch mcconal and house minority

leader kevin mccarthy are insisting power will be transferred peacefully following the results of the november 3rd election although the top republican leaders don't directly rebuke president trump by name, the comments come after the president cast doubt on whether he would accept the election results. florida prosecutors are dropping charges against new england patriots' owner robert kraft for soliciting prostitution then resulted in the judge ta tossing out video and audio surveillance of the incident i'll see you in an hour. >> thank you very much, sue. the relentless demand in the housing market continues our own diana olick has a look at the stunning new data out today. diana? >> kelly, sales of newly built homes in august just crushed expectations up 43% from a year ago to a 14-year high now, this followed another strong report on sales of

existing homes so, housing demand remains high in this new stay-at-home culture of the pandemic. the only red flag is supply. existing supply is at a record low and supply from builders is now almost half of what it is a year ago builders simply didn'texpect the immediate recovery and demand just after the pandemic hit and now they are faced with a shortage of land and labor and higher costs for materials now, all of this means much higher prices for consumers looking to buy any type of home. price gains in the double digits from existing homes and builders are raising their prices bad news for buyers and great news for the single family rental market which is now seeing the biggest demand. one of the biggest players in this space and just saw record leasing occupancy in its last quarter and joining us to discuss is ceo david singlan thank you for joining us >> xwrgreat to be joining you

today. >> you just reported record leasing and occupancy. you expected that strong demand to continue even past the end of the pandemic what exactly is driving it >> you know, the demand for single family rental is not new. it's been occurring for several years, covid has accelerated it but i don't see it changing into the future people realize the value today more than ever what the value proposition is of single-family rentals. and we're well positioned to take advantage of this increase demand >> now, you also reported about $6 million in covid-related bad debt that is tenants unable to pay and how are you dealing with those tenants and what do you think of the recent eviction moratorium by the cdc. is that fair to landlords like yourself >> bad debts for us has a slight uptick we have deliberately choken the

markets and neighborhoods we're in for our portfolios is less than the national average we're seeing in light of the difficult times, we're seeing relatively favorable collection results that are improving from our second quarter results evictions are always a last resort and the eviction moratorium while it has a temporary impact, long-term, we're comfortable with our collections and, again, we'll use evictions only as a last resort. >> david, kelly here back in the studio and i have a similar question to pick up on we talked about the demand for rental homes, but, again, on the supply side, are you going to see increased supply coming from people who are losing their homes because of covid >> yeah, begin with supply is short in all of housing sectors. we've seen a significant increase in supply in the single family rental sector over the

last eight years from $13 million to 16 million homes and occupancy still continued to increase we're very comfortable that the demand is very strong for our area but to your point, kelly, we are positioned we have financial flexibility and we have a unique purpose built program where we're building single family homes and that is driving superior returns to our shareholders as they have better economics and we, quite frankly, find our residents like them better than the homes we buy on the open market through this, i think we're changing the american landscape. >> but you do have you're facing about 4 million borrowers right now who are in these mortgage bailout programs and could go to foreclosures are you, we're hearing that investors are saving up money to take advantage of that buy homes at distressed prices like you did during the last foreclosure crisis are you planning to do that?

>> yeah, you know, we, we have the financial flexibility to take advantage of that, if it does present itself. but today our development platform provides us the best returns and that will be our primary channel for growth but the other channels are open. we will take advantage of them, yes. >> david singelyn. thank you for joining us kelly, back to you. >> one of the hottest parts of a very hot market. our thanks to both coming up, everyone is teaming up against apple and rapid covid testing arrives at the airport. that and more aheaind "rapid fire" right after this short break. for $359 a month for 36 m. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

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welcome back we have breaking news on tiktok. julia boorstin with the story. >> must delay the tiktok download ban or file legal papers by friday at 2:30 p.m. eastern. now, this comes ahead of a deadline that the president had set for this sunday. it had been delayed from last sunday that deadline saying that the company needed to make a deal bytenance needed to make a deal in how it was diversing tiktok or selling a stock and it was delayed one week tiktok has filed to try to delay that ban of trying to file to make sure that they are not prevented from enabling users to user download the app. this is a judge responding to that suit. we reached out to tiktok and got a no comment i just want to point out, kelly,

this comes amid news that kevin mayor who resigned as tiktok's ceo is currently in talks to join redbird capital that is according to sources close to the situation. >> a fluid one, julia, thank you very much. let's turn now to a couple other stories that should be on your radar it is rapid fire here to take on and break down the headlines phil lebeau, we welcome in from chicago. seema moody and michael. september has been a brutal month for some of the year's biggest momentum plays the chipmakers invidia off 15% and apple quietly on pace for its worst month in two years tesla worst week since march and nikola is down 80% and 50% this month alone. is this all nikola's fault >> it's not all nikola's fault i think it's the posterchild but, look, they have certainly

things specific to them that are leading to the selloff in nikola shares but in terms of momentum, i think you can attribute this to all the things we heard mike talk about several times over the last couple months it was wound so high it was due for a pull back and that's what we're seeing here. >> michael, elaborate on that, if you would which is the tail and which is the dog, so to speak >> all the superlatives that we were throughing out there are going in reverse i'm not saying it has to be an opposite and negative reaction we probably have longer to go. but this is also the way markets go and a high-momentum move. think about it, the first group to sell when stocks break a little bit lower after a high-momentum move are the ones buying them just because they kept going up and then you have the ones that say, i own a little bit too much but maybe i should lighten up and why should i keep doing that when they lighten up find layers of new potential sellers until you find some level of technical support where

people have cleaned up their positioning enough i think that's what we're trying to sort out right now. >> that's explain why a lot of the moves feel technically driven as opposed to headline driven and erratic >> you had apple down 3% at the lows at one point. at some point it was approaching losing 25% of its value from the highs and then it's recovered and back up and you have stocks not at all time, but session highs this afternoon it's bizarre >> right, historically september is the worst month for stocks. so, is this just history repeating itself or are there some fundamental reasons why investors should be taking some money off the table and are there concerns about whether these companies can continue to grow and command the valuation that they're trading at remains to be seen i think a company like apple has had such a strong run. even tesla up 400% from march 23rd through august. and now, of course, september has been a pretty bad month for the stock. there were some other fundamental reasons whether it

was battery day not living up to expectations and did not yield the type of results the bulls were expecting. >> fair enough and all of those names now some of the worst performers on the month but perhaps still a sign that not too much has changed the fact that charge point is going public in a spac today one of the largest and oldest vehicle charging networks and the latest ev name to go public by merging with a spac value the company at nearly $2.5 billion and will raise half a billion dollars. so, phil, i don't think we'd be continuing to see deals like this if the market had really turned against, certainly if it turned against this segment of the market >> right, i think there's still a lot of optimism about the growth we'll see from electric vehicles this is the sixth ev-related spac that we have seen since may. now, the only one that is close so far has been nikovla and you know the problems well documented over the last several weeks which raises the question. once we start to see these deals close and these ev-related spacs

and these stocks start to trade, what will be the reaction from investors? i think two months ago, look at nikola, sure-fire market and i'm not so sure now. now it comes down to what it has always been. does this company have a business plan and do we see a path to profitability? >> right so, curious, as well, mike, when do you think the spac will lose its luster is it here to stay does it take one big high-profile flop? what do you think? >> it's interesting. i think it will be here to stay and i don't know it will seem as much of a gold rush as it is right now where everybody deciding to launch one and also being in quite a hurry to capture the most trendy theme in the market which is evs or has been the most trendy theme i think there are aspects of better mouse trap and the inc t incentives kind of line-up in terms of basically being okay for the shareholders and being a quicker way for the public markets for a young company. on the other hand, i always think there's incentives for the

spac sponsor to say let me find the thing to get me the most immediate pop and that doesn't line-up with what is the best business down the road >> that is a great point, as always i mentioned apple a moment ago and forming the coalition for app fairness and includes epicgames, spotify, match group and base camp among others they say they want to create a level playing field for app businesses and give people freedom of choice on their devices. seema, interesting to me because i could see a company like epic less to lose but spotify and match a lot to lose by taking apple on here. >> at the same time pretty successful if you look at their stock chart. spotify up about 52 so far this year outperforming the s&p it seems like ever since that high-profile battle between apple and epic there was this new-found understanding around the economics of how the app store for apple actually works and whether some of these companies have an unfair

advantage. it was interesting to see barry who joined our program on "squawk box" who not only took aim at google which travel companies have had a lot about but gaining some momentum not just from some of the specific companies like epic but bigger companies that take issue with what they're doing >> that was interesting. was dillard's criticism about apple? same issue with the toll taking? >> exactly unfair advantage you know, it's not fair the economics of how it works and how much revenue that they command from the companies that use their app store. >> and, mike, interesting to me because the app store itself represents one of the most important growth areas and highest which is a component of why it deserves a higher multiple and the rest of it. seems like a lot at stake here every time a headline comes out and hard to tie it to a stock reaction >> it's for sure no doubt very important and quarter of the services revenue

line and growth there. hard to isolate what the exact vulnerability is going to be down the road. what is interesting among this movement is we don't have equal access to the ios platform outside. well, i mean, apple very much intentionally has created that eco system and nurtures it and it's closed and self-contained and they want to control everything about it. reminds me slightly of the tussle that goes on with retailers and the card processing companies with interchange fees and are we each going to negotiate our own and retailers think they have too much power and visa and mastercard say, fine, do it without us, if you can >> it's more common, i think, to have people say, hey, if you want to pay cash great. if you pay by card, we're slapping on a surcharge. finally, before we go today, united airlines is now becoming the first u.s. carrier to make covid-19 tests available to its customers. these rapid tests will be available to hawaii-bound passengers traveling to san francisco and could be a model for other airlines to begin offering tests to their

travelers, as well united still down 66% from its recent high. phil, i mean, first of all, why this route in particular, do you think? >> well, because starting on october 15th hawaii will say it will lift the two-week quarantine requirement that is certainly in place right now if you went to hawaii right now, kelly, you'd have to quarantine there for a couple weeks >> oh, dang. >> the idea here is that you have this test and if you can show that you are covid free, you can then, you don't have to worry about doing a quarantine i think this is a great idea and a great move by united we'll likely see this from other airlines, as well. this is one of those areas where when you talk with people who want to travel almost all of us say the same thing a, it's either a restriction on where i can go or, b, i have to prove that i'm not carrying covid-19 and so i think you'll see this, after they test this with hawaii, i bet you start to see this expand within the airline industry >> phil, kelly, if i may, why not make this mandatory? why make it optional to

passengers it seems like this is one of the key ways to get people to fly. why make it an option? >> well, if you're going some place that doesn't have a quarantine in effect, why should you? that is the argument i mean, if i'm flying to phene sxx i don't have to quarantine when i get there, why should i have to take a test? i understand what your argument is, seema, if you get onboard you don't want to infect people potentially. the flip side is you add one more friction point with a passenger and you're more likely to have that passenger say, no, i don't need to do that. >> i wonder if so much comes down to costs. these will potentially be $250 tests. who is footing that bill and separately, seema, can you about the leisure and travel industry that i totally agree could get back on its feet if it had something like this available. phil, first of all, who will foot that bill >> the the beginning, it will be the passenger to foot that bill. if you're going to hawaii and don't want to quarantine, i'll pay $250

i'm not crazy about the price but value for the people who want to say, look, i have proof that i do not have covid-19. i'm free to go wherever i want to go when i get to my destination. >> seema, that's what i wonder when you start thinking through the cruise lines and casinos and even restaurants i mean, if this were ubiquitous and inexpensive, a huge peace of mind for a lot of industries >> a lot of time we were saying the vaccine is a passport for travel and now with a growing number of americans saying they're not going to take a vaccine, testing seems to be the way to get back to some level of normalcy for these big travel companies whether it's the airlines or even the cruises which just earlier this week said they were going to mandate testing. but, again, the onus is on the passenger, the guest to get that test done and also foot the bill, which for some of these companies, that's the way they have to make it work so, i think it seems to be a step in the right direction to phil's point if they can get the test and the price of it down and the cost of it down and also if the states can mandate it, perhaps you have more people take it and then reduce the risk of virus

transmission >> great, you foot the bill, mike it would be a bummer to get a false positive, though >> without a doubt look, peace of mind for everybody onboard if everybody has to do it but, again, a lot of, just a lot of hoops to run through. you wonder if it's going to be an industry-wide mandate that really can be put in place before hopefully we're maybe even through this period >> i know. all right. thank you, all, very, very much today. phil, a pleasure to have you here for this kind of traveler's edition of rapid fire. want to get a check on markets because we continue to trend higher and feels much like the flip side of yesterday afternoon. yesterday we kept fallings as we went towards the closing bell and now 331 points higher on the dow a moment ago 1.1% gain and the nasdaq up 1.5% up next with just 40 days until the election and with major political ammajorities in the balance why the gridlock in washington could be a good thing for the markets. stay with us

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welcome back to "the exchange." the battle over the supreme court and the upcoming election are gumming things up in washington, but that gridlock may not be all bad for markets, according to one of my next guests joining me larry mcdonald and cnbc contributor and patrick chovanic at silvercrest asset management patrick, we'll start with you. is the lack of stimulus, at least the covid stimulus in the next couple months the most important kind of negative to come out of this in washington >> yes, if it ends up with businesses failing or people getting into deep economic distress because the aid wasn't there and we continue to have the suppressed economic activity that we've had all along, then, yes, that will translate into a slower recovery, obviously but overall, you know, we've

lived with gridlock in washington for really since 2010 with the exception of the passage of the trump tax cuts. even when trump had a majority in congress, a lot of things that the market seemed to bank on infrastructure reform and infrastructure package, health care changes, those things didn't happen and, of course, the other years we've had divided government so, you know, that lends itself to a lot of predictability whether that's good for the economy and whether it's good for the country we can debate but for markets, that lends a lot of stability and really the question is, what happens if you actually have a president who has congress behind him and can actually pass things >> which reminds us of obama care, larry. i think in 2010 which is what patrick is saying, we've had gridlock since then. what do you make of the gridlock

we see for the next couple months and should these be markets that welcome that or brace for what's coming? >> well, patrick is absolute lly right. historically during periods of gridlock and divided congress you typically get decent case, bad recession. we're trying to come out of it powell and the fed made a very, very powerful statement. they wouldn't give investors this month when they were pressed on the balance sheet, in other words, right now we're doing about 120 billion a month of balance sheet expansion when pushed on that, they basically said they could go up or down. that's essentially opening the door to a taper. that's pressure in washington. they don't want to go back to the tea party austerity days

they are trying to become a more proactive fed. we have a lot of inequality out there. they want fiscal policy more than ever. they don't want to go back to the dark days of austerity >> you're saying market still needs that action from congress. sounds like you both agree it's matter of what it looks like >> i think fed has been frustrated with congress and with fiscal policy that is not unique to the united states in europe, there's this overreliance on monetary policy and ecb sort of fix things while at the same time insufficient acts is being taken on fiscal front. i think we'll have a debate going forward about whether fiscal policy needs to be more proactive. there's a lot of obstacles for making that happen

>> i'll give you the last word on that. >> the beast in the market that inside the market now wants a combination if more months now you've had fiscal and monetary policy you had a great relationship now the beast in the market wants that fiscal. they will press to sell the rallies for the next month, month and a half the market will keep pressing the politicians over and over again. once we get the fiscal heading into first quarter, value will out perform growth by the most we have ever seen in an lelectin year we expect a 10% out performance of value over growth >> i like a boelld call. thank you. we appreciate it still ahead, what do target, tesla and home depot have in common lawsuits against the trump administration what they're fighting, next. who is usaa made for?

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welcome back thousands of companies have filed suits against the trump administration in an effort to roll back the tariffs on chinese goods. remember those kayla joins now with those details. >> reporter: a will the of those tariffs are still in effect and the number of challenging the trump administration is now topping 4,000 companies according to filings submitted to the court of international trade in recent weeks. lawsuits that include tesla, home depot, target, ford, ann taylor and others, the white house did not have the authority to institute the tariffs as

quickly as they did or raise the tariffs beyond their first level without congressional approval attorneys representing the companies call this response historic and say the firms have paid tens of billions of dollars in tariffs our clients filed this complaint because the u.s. government exceeded its authority in prosecuting an unprecedented and unbounded trade war against c e china in defiance of congressional limitations. the white house has yet to respond or to cnbc request president trump has falsely claimed in the past that china pays the tariff, not u.s. importers. it represents a remarkable turning of the tide by corporate america against an administration whose tax policy it was cheering just three years ago. it comes at a time in the chamber of commerce which has

long been pr -business and pro-republican has endorsed dozens of democrat candidates we are told the chamber does not intend to pursue its own legal action though it's been critical of these tariffs in the past >> you're right. there's been a major realignment of the parties and their interest this is a slow moving situation. by the time there is an answer here, trump might be out of the white house. if he's still many the kwhowhit house, is there authority to override what he's done here >> reporter: you're right it will take a very long time it's hard to see exactly how this will resolve. i think many trade watchers will acknowledge that the biden administration, a biden administration or the trump administration would have very similar trade platforms. we'll see how this shakesout >> thank you very much that does it for the exchange today stick around for "power lunch. we have a look at how trump is handling the deteriorating economy on the campaign trail.

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welcome everybody stocks are near the highs of the session as you see right there. erasing an early drop after yesterday's sell off the dow was down about 200 points early this morning. it's now up 260. the s&p up in percentage terms about the same that's as two key data points sent investors running in different directions first jobless claims ticking up but existing home sales surging to a 14-year high as the debate over the economic recovery continues and we wil