certain and the electoral vote count stands at 224 for biden and 213 for trump. trump's team is saying they feel confident about georgia, pennsylvania and believe arizona will, quote, come the president's way. the biden campaign believes they have already won arizona and wisconsin, and expect to win nevada pennsylvania also closely watched, where vote counting continues, and pennsylvania is where we find frank holland on the ground in that battleground where officials just wrapped up a press conference frank. >> the press conference just did wrap up. i want to update you on the situation. all 67 of pennsylvania counties are now counting mail-in ballots. in bucks county they've been counting ballots overnight and will continue to do so that is the case of the majority of the state's counties. president donald trump has 54% of the vote here in the early going. joe biden with 44.5%

right now the state says 2.5 million of the 3.1 mail-in ballots requested, those have been cast and that means received and deemed legally eligible 1.1 million of those mail-in ballots, they've actually been counted. here in pennsylvania, all mail-in ballots received by friday, 5:00 p.m. will be counted unless there's evidence that the ballot was mailed after election day mail-in ballots, especially those received after the election has been a source of controversy in p.a., republicans leaders calling on the secretary of state to resign over her guidance on how counties should deal with those ballots and if ballots received after election day should be kept separate from those received by election day a short time ago, the governor addressing that controversy. >> pennsylvania will have a fair election and that election will be free of outside influences. i will vigorously and we all will vigorously defend against

any attempt to attack that vote in pennsylvania. >> and when it comes to ballots received from today until friday, again, all ballots received from today until friday, 5:00 p.m. will be deemed eligible as long as there's no preponderance of evidence that they were mailed after election day. the secretary of state again says those will be kept separate from ballots received by election day and the ones received by election day will be counted first. back over to you >> frank holland in the swing state of pennsylvania. and the market reaction is where we'll begin today with tech surging this morning as votes continue to be counted, early facebook and google in investor roger mcnamy joined us, as well as elizabeth burton, the officer for the hawaii retirement system. thank you for joining us roger, i want to start with you because we are seeing tech stocks surge, particularly facebook up 8%, alphabet up

nearly 7%. i'm wondering whether you see this as a reaction to the fact that it looks unlikely that we'll see congress pass any legislation, perhaps mandating a breakup of these tech giants, or if you really think this is the fact that these are seen as a safe haven during these times? >> julia, your guess is as good as mine on the last point. if the government, the senate remains in republican hands and the presidency, but where you don't have all three in the hands of the same party is clearly in the interest of anyone who might be under regulatory pressure. so if you're an investor in google or facebook or amazon, the notion that republicans will keep the senate and the democrats keep the house, that that is probably the best case you could have hoped for and it makes sense to me the stocks would react to that. >> elizabeth, what is your take

on the market reaction thus far and sort of what we saw, at least sentiment wise from the electorate, more divided, but expected from companies that are looking for at least not too many drastic changes i guess that could be a positive >> sure, i mean, i don't tend to disagree with my co-speaker here, but i think that the market reaction is somewhat expected i think the divided senate -- i mean divided house will make it much less likely we'll get a massive stimulus bill. it's probably somewhere in the middle now i think it will still likely happen, given everything that's happened over the last night but i think some of the risks are off the table, but some still are on for example, i don't know that we have any clarity on what we may have with the china trade deal moving forward. >> interesting i'm wondering, roger, if you want to weigh in on that in

terms of the perception of what happens now with china, and then also here in california we had a number of key propositions pass, one of which really gives a huge advantage to uber and lyft we're seeing those stocks go up. another proposition that indicates that there's going to be much stricter regulation of privacy. so where do you see those falling with regard to the tech giants >> julia, i do think that the notion that the country's economy is going to be strong in the immediate future, there's much greater doubt about that than there would have been had biden swept or the democrats swept everything, where i think you would have seen very aggressive action on their part across a lot of things i think in this context it's really hard to tell what's going to happen. i think if somehow biden winds up with the presidency but the republicans continue to have the senate, i think that's going to

be very, very difficult for the u.s. economy going forward when i look at california, you see the product of, in my mind, exactly how insane this election was, in that proposition 22, which was sponsored by uber, lyft, door dash and other gig economy companies, was essentially designed to prevent a new california law from applying to drivers who work for those gig economy companies that would have given those drivers essentially the rights of employees. it would have allowed them to have better benefits, better compensation, and more power in their negotiations that was voted down by a very large margin i want to say that i think that the gig economy companies spent over $200 million because this was an existential threat to their business in california as they run it today. at the same time, proposition 24 was passed, which gives californians serious incremental privacy protections.

it's not a perfect bill. it doesn't do all the things that i would have liked to have seen on privacy, but it is a huge step forward. and the fact that both of those passed in the same year is in some ways surprising, because on one case you've got with proposition 24 something that does protect the average person against tech giants. in the case of 22, a group of tech giants gained massive economic power over the people who drive for them. >> elizabeth, it's obviously a tradeable event around uber and lyft, but i wonder in your mind, does prop 22 open doors to think about other tech companies, other tech sectors in different ways, at least as it pertains to their labor structure? >> sure. well, i mean, i think that probably every institutional portfolio right now has a lot of exposure to tech, so i wouldn't say that we're looking super hard at adding anywhere specifically right now i also probably am a little bit

more of a bear i do think that a lot of those returns have been pulled forward in technology, maybe not necessarily in every single sector but i think in general we need to think about diversifying away from tech. if you look at even emerging market indices, a lot of that technology based the u.s. winners are definitely technology based it makes me questionif we have the right benchmarks anymore are these representative of the overall economy? i think i would argue no. >> roger, finally, what do you think this means for tiktok? remember when we used to talk about tiktok all the time and the president was saying he was going to ban it or force it to sell neither of those things happened and now we haven't been talking about it on the congressional side clearly not a blue wave at this point. the presidential picture is still cloudy what do you think that means >> john, it's a great question, because when i look at the tiktok thing, it was clearly a political pawn maybe now that the election is

gone, that issue will go off the table entirely because nobody cares anymore. it was a tool designed to rile up a group of voters in fact, i think when we do the nalt analysis of this election, we will see the problem we faced was not election day disinformation so much as it was the massive amount of disinformation that preceded the election, that you essentially had whole races that were taking place outside the fact-based world and i think when that analysis is done, we're going to look back on this and just slap our forehead because it really is -- it's amazing that in an environment where 230,000 americans have died, which is a death rate that is higher than the civil war, higher than the second world war or the first world war, that a president who has presided over that, you know, is still potentially going to get re-elected, which is just astonishing. it's hard to imagine that

happening in american history, that you could see that level of failure be rewarded with that level of success at the polls. >> elizabeth, i'm going to give the last question to you and i want to ask you about sort of the divided nation that roger just touched on, the divided senate that we just discussed, and just your overall sense, i guess is the question, what is your overall sense of what these valuations look like in the tech sector when we've seen them go up so dramatically over the last several months in particular does this divided nation and the divided senate change your outlook at all >> i think it gives me some comfort on the outlook my job was never to predict which way this was going to go my job is to care about what the policy implications mean for our portfolio. i certainly think there's been a wide swath of data showing that the valuations are pretty high bes mer trust recently did a

study they're up 25 times annual revenues and up since 2016 i think everyone is looking for winners and that's not a great scenario i think there are sectors that are probably pretty cheap right now, but they're hard to swallow. that's what we should be buying. we're long-term investors and we're not looking for the next quick hit. but i think we have a lot of exposure to these sectors and a lot of things were pulled forward. i bought three laptops in covid but i'm probably not going to do it next year, especially for my kids i know tech is a big industry, but eventually i think the stay-at-home thing is going to end and some of this will slow down >> roger and elizabeth, thank you both so much for joining us. the nasdaq now up 3.6% carl >> julia, we continue to watch michigan and wisconsin, of course, and pennsylvania but you can't take your eyes off arizona. that's where we find jane wells

once again >> hey, carl, i'm inside the election center and just four minutes ago they started processing 248,000 early mail-in ballots that came in this week so they still have to go through 248,000 of those ballots here. they can go through about 6,000 to 8,000 ballots an hour, so we're talking at least 31 hours without any tabulation problems. once they're done with those, they then have to start processing provisional ballots or mail-in ballots that were dropped off at polls yesterday that could take at least two to three days, if not longer. they're saying they're not going to update any election results here in mericopa county until 7:00 p.m. local tonight. that is 9:00 p.m. eastern. so it's going to be awhile as we see the results come in. the latest numbers show joe biden is ahead of trump by 3.5%, which is, by the way, the same margin trump won by four years

ago. back to you. >> jane wells about arizona. another pop that we have to watch boil here. we'll take a break when we come back, we'll talk more about the prop 22 vote in the state of california and the effect it's having on shares of both uber and lyft, up better than 11% don't go away.

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shares of uber and lyft are surging this morning, as california passes prop 22, meaning drivers will be able to remain independent contractors and not employees. early uber investors and founder of inside.com joins us now jason, i'll bet you're as subdued as ever about this,but really this was not nearly as close as the polls suggested i mean, 58% is pretty resounding we got the concession on this pretty early in the night. do we now move on to figuring out how these companies can make conditions and safety nets better for workers >> absolutely, and, you know, just i would like to thank the media for doing such a great job covering what is obviously a little bit of chaos today and for the american people, to be patient and get every vote counted because everyone does count. prop 22 is really a parallel to

what we're seeing across the country and trump's absolutely shocking and outstanding performance. we heard roger just talk about it before i came on air, how is this possible that trump got all these votes? well, i believe that there is a war going on within our country between rural voters who would like to live their lives and not be told how to live those lives and an emerging hysterical socialist left, which we sometimes refer to as coastal elites but these coastal elites actually do not agree with the hysterical left. and they don't want to tell people how to work and what prop 22 did was, and the reason why 70% of drivers didn't want it, is they wanted to force people who very much enjoyed picking their own hours and making arguably $15 to $30 an hour in the face of having other choices like working for mcdonald's for $10 an hour

mcdonald's forcing and fighting tooth and nail for decades against a minimum wage increase. or the fact that amazon and apple had to raise their minimum wages to $15 an hour to compete against gig work, door dash, lyft, uber, and many other companies had put out there that was so much more compelling to the average american as an entry-level job, or as a side hustle, a way to make that extra $100, that they voted that they don't want the government telling them how to work and they don't want to show up in a uniform and work at mcdonald's from 5:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. and not take their kids to school. >> so how do the companies make it better from here, though? because, yes, this is a repudiation of the state saying we know what's best for everybody here this is direct democracy, people

saying, no, here's what we want. but there's still this issue of safety net we saw it happen during covid when so many drivers were not able to have those fares and we're still in this period i shouldn't say in covid, as if it's passed. there are a lot of possibilities that people have put forth for ways that workers could be protected. how quickly does that move forward at this point? >> one of the great things about the split election where it appears biden is going to win by just a hair and we might have the senate go slightly to the gop, is that these people we sent to washington are going to need to get together and look at something like the minimum wage, which has not changed since 2009 $7.25. australia has a $14 or $15 minimum wage at this point they're second highest in the world. and companies, tech companies specifically, are leading the charge amazon, they want to break it

up, has a $15 an hour minimum wage uber, run exceptionally well, is putting money into people's safety net what we're building in the technology industry is a second safety net there's also a safety net, unemployment, welfare, food stamps, all the different programs we have in this country paid for by taxpayers. what the gig economy did and, what the idiot politicians did who are destroying the state and driving the top leaders of the greatest state in the nation it has the greatest coastline, the greatest weather, these idiots are driving people to texas, nevada and florida so they can have more freedom to run their companies and not have these idiots, and incompetent idiots tell them how to run companies and we are doing a better job at leadership than they are it's infuriating and that's why trump is so close to winning

i'm very upset about it. >> bringing you back to the topic at hand, you did mention minimum wage it's worth pointing out in florida there was a vote to increase the minimum wage. but i want to ask you specifically about uber, of course, you're an early investor there. i think it was interesting that uber made adjustments to the app ahead of the vote and then there was just a report out from morgan stanley saying that prop 22 could give uber an advantage in the competition for drivers supply, because it is the larger app, the larger player and the argument now that you could see more drivers concentrate their hours on uber. how do you see prop 22 impacting the competition between uber and lyft and impacting these companies in perhaps ways we may not have anticipated because there was just so much of a focus on whether or not 22 would pass or not? >> i mean, that'sa great question this has been a super overhang for literally, i don't know, every year after the second or

third year of uber when they started to be so successful and they started to spread like wildfire when you add these regulations, whether it's regulating social media, it basically pulls up the ladder for competitors below because the companies with the most money, the biggest war chest, get to defend themselves. so all the regulation would have done -- part of me was like, wow, this would be pretty great if prop 22 fails, because then uber gets to say you're all full-time, you work the hours we want you to work, we're lowering the rate you're going to get and you've got to wear an uber logo and t-shirt and you've got to drive a certain type of car. it would standardize the process and make it less of a marketplace. when travis started the company, i asked him why don't we provide them with car washes, because they would be like i just went into an uber, it was dirty he said, jason, it's a marketplace. we cannot exert how they deliver the service. once we do that, they're employees. guess what

if you make them employees we at uber -- i'm saying we, i'm a small shareholder. uber could say you can't work for lyft, you can't work for door dash, you can only work for lyft so then to the person on top who has the biggest -- that's what would have happened. so uber wins either way in this. what's most important is vibrant competition. if you want to fight the real enemy, walmart is paying people $11 an hour, mcdonald's is paying them, $7, $8, an hour let's start there and let's start a program where we raise the minimum wage 5% to 10% a year for five straight years. >> florida started that process, jason. but there are still those who believe this is not about telling the companies how to run their employee base. it's about those laid-off drivers who filed for unemployment that you and i paid their benefits because the company never paid into the pool and it's just labor arbitrage. >> if you're a real estate

broker or a freelance writer, you have freelance journalists i'm sure who work at cbnc. upcoming media company had to lay off and fire every journalist in california because of these idiot, income tent backers of these type of programs who said you can't have freelance journalists anymore. and you know what we need to do? we need to let americans decide how they distribute the labor. pre-pandemic we had the lowest unemployment of our lifetime look at the free market. look at how it's operating if we have the lowest unpli unemployment and wages are going up for people in that bracket and walmart has to raise to $11 to compete with amazon, who is at $15, they're reacting and even apple, who had a disgracefully low store price -- hourly wage for their store employees, they got absolutely admonished for it and rightfully so since they're so unbelievably

profitable everyone has to compete for that class of employees there is no loser in a market like this. people are choosing that they want to drive four hours and be able to pick their kids up and take them to soccer. working an eight-hour shift sucks and having to wear that uniform sucks. that's why they won. >> that's how capitalism is supposed to work and i think we can all acknowledge it needs guardrails >> and let's all work on the wage, instead of picking one company because you don't happen to like them >> a lot of people disagree about the minimum wage, but that's for another day jason, thank you >> okay, a little bit. give them a little bit on the minimum wage $7 is ridiculous let's go to $10 and just call it a day. let's start somewhere. >> all right. >> disgraceful. >> good to see you, jason. a billionaire and former 2020 presidential candidate tom steyer joins us next don't go anyerwhe. name is sis m

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welcome back, everybody. i'm sue herera in the your money, your vote this hour, twitter has flagged a tweet from president trump saying some or all of the content shared in this tweet is disputed and might be misleading about an election, end quote in the tweet, president trump suggested that his lead magically disappeared as surprise ballot dumps were counted in key states he called democrat run and controlled. the u.s. election is big news all around the world, including in the united kingdom where newspapers headlined the close race it wasn't become news to this certain in central london. >> i'm very depressed.

i mean, i think it's going to be very close, it's going to be drawn out and like the 2000 election again and i think the divisions in america are just going to get more protracted and more deep. so very depressing >> in nigeria, one fancy restaurant is rooting for president trump with a portrait of him wearing a traditional flowing robe i'll be back in an hour. that's the your money, your vote update this hour carl, i'll send it back to you >> sue, thank you very much. as you've been talking, getting some comments from senate majority leader mcconnell on the counting of votes and the timing of stimulus >> mcconnell is now saying that he believes that lawmakers should pass another stimulus package before the end of the year now, this is a change from his position just a week ago in which he said he did not think that washington would turn to this until the beginning of 2021 however, we know that over the past 24 hours the political landscape has changed and mcconnell said that he hopes

that partisan passions that prevented them from doing this before the election may have cooled and allow lawmakers to come to some sort of compromise here so mcconnell saying that he would like to turn to another stimulus package before the end of the year. he does not know, carl, he said if republicans will maintain their control of the senate. but he's hoping to have more information by the end of the day. back to you. >> that's something the market will pay attention to. we'll watch that, with your help thank you. in the meantime, former 2020 presidential candidate and founder of next gen america tom steyer joins us to talk about not just the race, but the senate policy as well. nice to see you. >> it's good to be with you. >> we can talk about vote counting in a minute more broadly, you've spent a lot of money trying to advocate for policy change, in energy, for

example, and i wonder what you make of the narrative that the market and voters have repudiated it, at least at the extreme? >> let's start with the market the market has actually moved strongly to accepting the move to clean energy. and that goes broadly. i mean, it starts with the big banks, with jpmorgan saying that they're going to lend according to the paris accords it moves to the valuations of clean energy companies like nextera being bigger than the valuation of exxon mobil we're seeing a huge move in the market in terms of the cost per kilowatt hour of clean energy versus fossil fuel energy. we're seeing fossil fuel loans going bad at a shocking rate on the balance sheets of big banks. so from a market standpoint we're seeing the economic swing radically and hard in favor of clean energy and let's be clear -- >> so would you --

>> -- we don't know what's happening in the polls of the united states yet because we haven't counted every vote >> that's true but would you argue then that investors -- >> excuse me >> would you karg thargue that investors are running ahead of at least the small likelihood that there's a broad mandate within the senate to do progressive agendas? >> well, i think we've got to start with the presidency and we have to count every vote, and i believe that the biden/harris ticket has a strong path to 270. so let's count the votes before we decide what happened. and by the way, that's what democrats and joe biden are saying, let's let the democracy speak, let's let every american vote be counted. but the market has moved i'm sorry, we have seen economically what the future is, because people who are putting their money up, people who are running big economic institutions, have moved

so in fact, from this standpoint, the american technology and ingenuity and research has moved way better than anybody would have predicted a year ago or two years ago or five years ago. so this move is happening in the markets, and the question is, are we going to get behind it politically. >> tom, we've also seen tech stocks move dramatically higher this morning, and in particular i want to point to uber and lyft, those stocks benefiting from the passage of proposition 22 here in californiament we were just talking about that with our prior guest i want to get your take on that, because a year ago you said there needed to be better regulati of tech giants such as uber. what do you think of people coming out and voting and saying they don't want a regulate those companies and force them to classify their employees -- or their workers as employees, rather where does that leave that issue for those very influential tech

companies in the rest of the nation >> look, i think it's clear that the way that work is organized is changing, and what i was saying a year ago is exactly what i'm saying now, which is workers need to be protected the reason that we've put in laws over the years to protect workers is to make sure that they aren't taken advantage of, particularly in times like today of high unemployment i thought that that was an over-reach by those companies, i opposed prop 22, and i believe that working people -- and you can see it in the great income disparities that have grown up over the last 40 years in the united states, need to be protected and organized. and i haven't backed off on that in the least i think that was a very confusing proposition. but i think now it looks as if it will pass, so we're going to have to figure out going forward how to make sure that working men and women across this country are protected and get to share fairly in the success of the united states, the

prosperity of the united states. >> it's interesting, so many of those workers, though, seemed not to want to be classified as employees and seemed to want prop 22 to pass. but i want to ask you about something else, i want to ask about the polling, which seems, once again, to have been so far off and there were people who were pouring money into backing certain candidates and certain races based on these polling numbers. there were people making all kinds of prognostications based on this. if you were trying to run a business or make investments based on this kind of data, you would be losing a lot of money, right? >> there's no question that the polls were off but let me say this. we can see we have a very divided country, and really joe biden was running as the unity candidate. he was saying i'm going to pull us together, i'm going to represent every american, not just americans who voted for me. and donald trump said the exact opposite so i think at this time when the polls didn't reflect how divided

we really are, i think it really points out what i think thoughtful and value-driven campaign joe biden and kamala harris ran on this very topic. and i think the people who supported them really poured their hearts and souls into the idea of pulling the country together, that we're back to making -- back to being one country. and i think that's something i'm very proud of the biden/harris campaign for and very proud of democrats for standing up for it >> so, tom, it sounds like even though the president won by the narrowest of margins in 2016, and then spent four years running as if he had a mandate, you don't think that's the way a biden/harris administration should behave if they win? >> i think -- gosh, can you imagine two more different people than joe biden and donald trump?

one of has gone through serious personal tragedies and wears his heart on his sleeve and leans into compassion to every american, and the other one does the exact opposite i think that, you know, the idea of how we're going to treat other people within our society and other countries, you couldn't have a more different approach so, yeah, i think that going forward we're going to be -- assuming the biden/harris ticket does, in fact, march to 270 electoral votes, which we don't know we need the ballots to come out and that's what we're pushing for. if they do, we're going to have a very different leadership style. >> tom, i want to ask you a quick final question on the tech giants, back when you were running for president you advocated for more regulation, potentially even breaking up the tech giants. today we see facebook and google shares, those stocks soaring on

anticipation that because of the way it looks like the senate is turning out, there will not be regulation on those issues what is your take on that now? >> look, what i thought before is those essentially have created monopolies for themselves, and in a society like ours of competitive businesses, if that happens then you need to make sure that the government, elected officials of the government, have an ability to control the excesses that always happen in those situations if you believe in a competitive united states and one where, you know, we started fighting monopolies 120 years ago under teddy roosevelt. so i think the idea of an economy driven by competition, not monopoly, is one that's deeply engained in our economy and one of the reasons that we have such a strong competitive one, both here and abroad. so i believe that when you have monopolies, however they're created, it's important to make

sure that the excesses are regulated away by the government that hasn't changed. that's econ 101. >> tom, it's always good to touch base with you. thank you for the time today we appreciate it very much. >> nice to talk to you, too. >> and we will have a look at the votes still yet to be counted, the states still yet to be called as we head to a break. we'll have an update from those battleground states next stay with us

dow is up close to session highs now. 662. s&p almost 3470, the first day above 3400 since late october, and the nasdaq 4% gain as we continue to wait for the results from key battleground states we're back in a moment in your custom iew of the market. it's smarter trading technology for smarter trading decisions. fidelity.

taxing the wealthy at the state level. robert frank explains. robert >> hey, julia. voters sending mixed signals on taxing the wealthy on a lot of state ballot measures yesterday. voters in illinois rejecting an initiative called the fair tax that would have replaced the state's flat tax with higher taxes on the higher earners. the state's richest man spending more than $50 million of his own money to defeat the measure and he succeeded now, in california a measure hiking taxes on commercial real estate, that also failed, despite support from mark zuckerberg, who spent more than $10 million to support it. in colorado, voters approving a tax cut with top rates falling to 4.55% now, arizona voters did pass a measure that nearly doubled the state become tax rate for those top earners making more than $250,000 a year.

that went to 8%. that money will be used specifically for education in san francisco, a tax on big real estate sales of over $10 million passed, along with what was called the overpaid ceo tax. that was on companies where the ceo makes more than 100 times their average worker pay carl, that's largely going to affect banks, fast food companies and some of the retailers that have lower paid workers. back to you. >> robert, a great summation of the tax policy stuff from last night. robert frank let's break down some of that with the president of americans for tax reform grover, good morning good to see you. >> good morning. good to be with you. >> i would assume between illinois and at least the general composition of the senate, you must be pretty happy today? >> yes, with the republican senate you don't have the $4 trillion tax increase that biden was talking about.

you don't have a carbon tax or an energy tax, which would morph into a vat over time you don't double the capital gains tax, which biden had promised, which would be thrice what china pays, and we wouldn't be raising our corporate rate to 28%, which would again be higher than china's and drive american companies overseas so we dodged a real blullet at the national level the old biden would probably be pretty relieved he was not going to be pushing the tax increases. the new biden was running on those tax increases, but if he gets to be president, then it might be a little easier not to throw the economy into reverse when you show up i'm originally from massachusetts. we had five votes on going to a graduated or a progressive income tax in massachusetts. it's been defeated five times, going back into the 1970s.

and they defeated it the same way that illinois did, they said, sure, year one they'll tax the kennedy kids, year two they'll come for you, and the kennedy kids won't be there to defend you because you threw them to the wolves if you look at taxes at the state level, graduated or progressive income taxes are much higher than the flat taxes. massachusetts, liberal state, flat tax of just about 5.1%, it doesn't go up, because to raise taxes in massachusetts or illinois, you have to look everybody in the state in the eye and say all your taxes are going up because you're a single rate people go, that had better be a really good idea if i'm paying for it but if it's don't worry, it's not you, it's somebody else, the rates go up. >> yeah. at the national level, grover, is it possible that tax policy remains relatively static for the next four years under biden

if he wins >> yes, that's the way to bet. remember this is exactly what happened -- well, what may happen is exactly what happened with president obama, and that was he extended most of the tax cuts for individuals, more than 80% of the tax cuts for individuals, and no tax increases were done, as long as you had one house republican since 1994, there has notbeen tax increase at the national level. 80% of the republicans in the house and senate have all taken a pledge not to raise taxes. mitch mcconnell will not allow a tax increase to go through the senate so you negotiate with biden and say since we're not raising taxes, let's talk about spending restraint. everyone said you couldn't do that, but the guy who gave us $2 trillion in reduced spending from what his plans were was obama. >> grover, at the state and local level, particularly with

the shortfalls that we're looking at from covid right now, it seems that there's a potential blood bath of layoffs. somewhere. what -- how are you going to pursue that? i know you're against taxes but this is an interesting time. there's a lot of spending that needs to happen and also an employment situation going on. >> yeah. when they passed some of the first three different bailouts and stimulus packages, they put out a lot of money for states. almost all the states got more money and still then they lost in revenue remember there hasn't been much revenue loss at the state and local level. state level -- local level it's mostly property taxes. they're still collecting property taxes from businesses that the governor of michigan has shut down. your pizza place is shut down. you're still paying your property taxes the city is not going without cash if you have high marginal tax

rates, then you would see greater drop in revenue. but what you should do is not have very volatile corporate and individual tax rates you need to get those tax rates down actually, there's not a real problem with loss of revenue the states would like more revenue and some of the incompetently run states have put themselves in problems with pension. that has nothing to do with covid. you can divide out incompetent states from the competent states and the incompetent states have massive debts they racked up long before covid was a word >> grover, there's no doubt covid is weighing on these states now i'm curious to hear your perspective on the states that did pass tax increases robert frank just ran through some of them talking about arizona and california in particular are there any characteristics of those measures that were passed

that you think were notable or could indicate in other elections or other states? >> sure. states that have high taxes that chase people out of them would like to have other states raise their taxes. the money to fund the tax increase in arizona, doubling the highest personal tax rate and making it not a state you want to move to anymore. if you're retiring, 8% rate instead of 4% rate, that was paid for by people from states people leave to -- anyway, it has the effect of kneecapping arizona as a competitor state. they're going to have to do something drastic with that but they put it into the constitution you didn't mention it, but there was a permanent increase in the sales tax in arkansas. arkansas already has one of the highest sales taxes in its region and they made a permanent

tax increase they promised that goes to highways that is something that's very interesting. it was a temporary tax increase, increase in the sales tax and they sold it as temporary, and then they turned around and said, it's not really a tax increase, said the republican governor of arkansas because we're just continuing the tax increase the question was it a tax increase because you had to vote to make it permanent we see this all the time temporary tax increase and then when they come around, they want to make it permanent and claim it's not a tax increase. the present governor of arizona got to be governor because he opposed his republican governor when he was treasury -- treasurer doing exactly that sales tax went up, temporary, and then she wanted to keep it he led the fight, making it permanent. you may see other governor fights in arkansas over this tax increase there it is interesting that even

illinois, like in massachusetts, people leak a flat tax would you ever move to a flat tax? the interesting point is, very hard to move away from a flat tax. once they have it, people understand what everybody else is paying. >> yes, yes. somewhere jack kemp is smiling fascinating look at the national and local level. thanks very much. >> grood ood to be with you. >> let's take a look at the market before we take a break. all the indices near session highs. the dow subpoena 665 points. the s&p up 100 the nasdaq up 454. that translates into better than 2% on the dow, better than 3% on the s&p and 4% on the nasdaq united health leading the dow.

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states forgive me obviously, wisconsin and michigan are very much in play we are hearing from an official out of wisconsin saying that the votes have been counted, although at this point nbc news is not projecting a winner in the state of wisconsin yet also, john, michigan, the secretary of state there says they're still counting tens of thousands of ballots in michigan and expect to have an unofficial tally by the end of the day, john. >> we're going to continue to watch wisconsin, of course, with that official saying those votes have been counted. if you look at the difference between biden and trump in wisconsin, it's around 20,000 in the tally right now. and former governor scott walker, the republican, who we had with us last night, carl, saying if it holds 20,000 is a high hurdle. that is about how much biden is ahead.

julia? >> john, just want to point out, nasdaq up over 4%, s&p up 3% the nasdaq driven higher by the tech giants. facebook up about 8% alphabet up 7% carl, strength in those tech giants today >> session highs, dow up 700-plus points. it's time for the judge. >> appreciate it, carl our breaking news coverage continues. welcome to "the halftime report." i'm scott wapner first, let me show you what's happening in the market at this hour a big gain for stocks is what. there's your picture right now dow is up by more than 700 points that is a better than 2.5% gain. stp is good for 3% nasdaq is the outperformer, the standout with a gain of more than 4%. let's go to the race for the presidency still up for grabs, crucial votes are still being counted this hour. the electoral vote stand