futures point to losses. the reopen trade, is it in jeopardy, that debate is ahead the u.s. hitting grim records, the new covid cases as well as hospitalizations, but moderna signaling it is nearly ready to release the early data on its vaccine candidate. and the seven month wait is over, but golfers at the masters will have to contend with mother nature tiger is defending is that really -- tiger becauwa last one to win. it has been so long. "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ ♪ he's leaving on that midnight train to georgia, said he's going back ♪ >> good morning, everybody welcome to "squawk box." we're focusing on georgia for a different reason today, we'll talk more about the masters later this morning

i'm becky quick along with joe kerr de kernen and andrew ross sorkin. after two days of optimism, the get out there again trade was on turned around a little bit yesterday. we did see people rushing back to the stay-at-home stocks as covid cases and momentization hs continue to climb. and some states are imposing restrictions and the nasdaq ended up 2% after being down monday and tuesday. yesterday the dow ended flat, right now indicated down by about 115. never made to the record, still waiting circumstanling around tt s&p 500 down by 2.5 and nasdaq indicated up another 51 points this morning these were the stay at home stocks, amazon up, apple up 3%,

zoom which had gotten hammered, yesterday up by almost 10% took c docusign 5.2% and netflix 2.2% and treasury yields, yesterday it was closed for veterans day this morning it is open and you can see the ten year still around the very heightened levels, again, not historically, but based on what we've seen in recent history within range of 1% andrew >> let's talk about unfortunately the covid cases in the u.s. because it has intensified. we are not rounding a corner in any way. the 7 day average of new cases is up 33% in the last week to 1 121,000 per day. hospitalizations position halsoa

record in new york, governor cuomo set new statewide restrictions in an intent to try to curb some of the outbreak in bars, restaurants. they will be shutting down dining at 10:00 p.m. but can stay open for curbside pickup. gyms will have to close at 10:00 p p.m. as well and private gatherings are capped at 10 people just ahead of the holiday season all of this against the backdrop of shares in moderna, which are rising hopefully them have good news for us the company says it has enough cases of covid in its trial to start to take a look at the data within a week, a signal that preliminary results could be released soon. and independent panel will look at how many sick people got the vaccine and how many got the joe, my big question, we you saw the big move in the market the day we heard about the success of the pfizer vaccine and then obviously we've slipped back in

part because the covid cases have continued to rise shouldn't have been a surprise frankly given so much that we've heard from dr. got leib and ttld the so-called dark winter. and when we hear the moderna news, let's say it is similar, how does the market react? >> well, at scott gottlieb says all the time, he talks about the epitope. so we know that it is the same type of delivery, the sasame mechanism. a little snap pbi snippet of the mrna. you would expect that the data would be similar i read quite a bit -- you talked about the hangover, the flu you feeling, but people said i would do it again in a minute. and i've had some experience with hangovers when i was younger. and you would imagine if that is

all you had seriously, if you had a one day hangover, even a bad one, like a jagrmeister hangover >> to take the vaccine. >> yeah, i'd take the vaccine. >> i'm not a skecht tirept tic e vaccine, but i know people who have been in the studies and they took two days of work off i'm not saying that that is what will happen to people, but i'm suggesting in this particular instance they said it kicked you in the you know what but as we're looking through the side effects of these things, even short term -- by the way, that may be a fair trade, to take two days of a hangover. >> yeah, but you could do that in your sleep. >> but i think the question is about the markets, whether you

think when we get hoe der in a new, assuming it is as good, should that have already been built in, meaning since it is the same kind of protein situation, should we say okay, this thing suggests that so therefore the market is so rational it does this? >> can i just say, yesterday we heard from dr. an thothony faucn he said it wouldn't be surprising at all to see the same level of case and that wouso two vaccines would be pretty amazing. the bad news would be if the second only had 60% or 70% efficacy, then everybody wants the one and nolts tt the other. but if you get the result that they both work that well, i would think that is still good news for the market because you are talking about a massive number of additional doses that would be just as good. >> how often are you going in and out? you are always worried about these short term moves if goldman sachs is looking at

for 2021. 00 so what, you think that the s&p might back off 100 points? you are still not on this train. the train has been back and forth three, four, five times. what are you worried about, the market might back off initially? >> we have viewers, i get emails from them r, whether zoom or whatever, and they say oh, my god, the world looks like it is falling. aen by the way some of these people are older so they are thinking i need this money later. other people have cash on the sidelines and they are thinking did i want to be in this market, do i not want to be. and those are the decisions that are being made not just by professional traders, but hopefully people all across the country. so there is a little bit of timing to this not to say that we shouldn't be thinking long term, but --

>> there is always the possibility of a bear market >> otherwise we wouldn't show the stock prices on the screen >> either you believe in people like mike wilson and goldman sachs or you don't there could be a lot of reasons why we go into a secular bear market, but it is always like that if a market starts at 800 and ends at 30,000, you pick your points there are times maybe to get some dry powder, but -- i don't know what is going to happen in the next month but i don't think the world will end again from covid and it didn't end the first time >> i didn't say the world was going to end or the as to being mar recei market -- >> when ackman said we were going to hell, but that was a pretty good buying opportunity, but we'll see.

if you are worried that moderna is going to cause a selloff -- >> bill ackman osaid that we would go to hell if we didn't do anything about it. >> but for him and everybody else, it was a good to buy >> it was played up, yes, it was played up, but actually i would argue not by him >> i don't think it was his finest moment, but he made $4 billion, $5 billion, whatever it was. time for the squawk planner. economic data due at 8:30 includes the weekly jobless claims and first read on inflation. the consumer price index we'll hear from cisco systems and disney after the closing bell and fed chair powell will speak at the european central banking forum at 11:45 today is the deadline for tiktok to strike a deal to a shutdown by the trump administration, but

bytedance has won a legal battle that could halt the shutdown order. and the masters, golf tournament, i thought long and hard about wearing a really green tie. i'll never have a green jacket, closest i could come is a green tie, but it is today and it has been rescheduled from april. do you know what the difference is i think the days are much shorter, aren't they so have you talked to your husband, becky, i think coverage starts much earlier. >> and the weather >> but we'll be able to watch like at 1:00 and usually it goes to 7:00 or 8:00 at night. so for people when go to bed early, pretty good anyway, no fans are permitted. players can bring a plus one players are bracing for rain the forecast calls for an 80% chance of showers and 100% chance of a recount.

and thunderstorms will begin at 1:00 p.m that is bryson dechambeau, they just showed him. i don't know if you saw any of the u.s. open, but he has a technique that he is using to hit the ball far he is hitting drives apparently 400 yards at times so if you've ever watched augusta or watched the masters at augusta or had the privilege and honor of playing there, there are places on the course where he will be after his drive that make no sense i think a number 2, i would wager he will have a wedge into number 2, which is a par 5 number 3, i would wager he might be going for the green unless he doesn't want to, but i think he probably could so it is going to be great to watch. and it will be a diversion and there is a lot of sub stories too, like de shechambea, rory wants to win a green jackets something fierce

jon rahm a lot of really good stuff >> tiger is back >> it is a diversion from worrying about vaccines and the stock market and the election and everything else and we need it once in a while and i probably won't bet on it, but i will say my parlay yesterday, i won okay so take that, will you >> so thousand doubling down and super addicted >> i put $6 down and won $20 no, the three favorites won in the mid-atlantic conference last night. >> guys, we have news that just breaking right now a spac is buying a health care provider for seniors, the transaction valuing the combination at $4.4 billion. and we'll learn a lot more about this deal a little later right now when barry himself will join us at 8:15 with the founder and

ceo. it is the latest there so a little bit of breaking news to tell you about. joe. coming up, we've said this already, a lot of rs here, rotation reversal, tech stocks bounce back, we'll talk strategy next with tim lesco and where he thinks that you will see action in some names. futures not done triple dig s ds anymore. and here isa look at vroom are that reported a small her than reported loss, but guidance in the fourth quarter disappointing the street consumer demand for used vehicle has returned to pre-covid levels at calvert, we know responsible investing is hard.

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the latest on xfinity mobile. renewed interest, like two days, but renewed interest in value stocks has helped fuel the rise in the dow, but will it continue in its march to 30,000. here to talk about some of the high flying dow stocks is tim

lesco, partner and portfolio manager at what i would consider one of the most solid investment firms around granite investment mr. slate worked there, i think, didn't he? so make the case i don't think that you are necessarily saying that amazon or docusign or zoom are not good investments, but you think that -- i won't call it a dog, but some of the stocks that have been overlooked might be the place to look right now. >> certainly anytime you have something like a global pandemic and hyper cyclical recession that followed, a lot of stocks went down 30%, 40% in the spring and did not rebound as the stay at home stocks did. so i don't think that apple, amazon, and the like have to go down, they can just stay where they are as money comes off the sidelines and begins to look for value. and i think you saw you that

when people began to see that vaccine was on the way, they started to look at what would earnings be like in the second half of 2021, not whether or not they will go to the movies next week so i think that it is not just a rotation, it is also a lot of money that has been it is being on the sidelines >> so let's go over some of your favorites. you think disney is just -- think about -- i have a thought, i don't finish sentences, i know that, but think about disney prior to this happening. it is kind of weird how universally loved it was it was like everything they had, everything they touched, they were hitting on all cylinders. it was the perfect domg bin nati nation of assets and then now people are questioning the makeup of disney but you nowyou like it again. >> right and i think you hit the nail on the head pre-covid, disney was what everybody else was trying to become

that combination of blaroadcast media, creation and the theme parks. and that came to screeching hal in the spring. and coming out of it, what we've he seen is that content is king, whether it is the content that hbo and netflix and disney creates has legs for a long time they are great content creaer cs and they have a library everybody would louvre to have and we think it will become a more profitable business >> you make a movie, you get characters, you put the characters walking around the theme park, you have a build a ride with the theme. so you do need to have like everything open and everything working to fully maximize what happens with your assets

so you are assuming that will happen >> correct and i think that disney has shown through their somewhat tempered reopening of the theme parks that they can create a safe atmosphere for their customers, because this thing is going to last longer we are very excited by the vaccine, 170 different vaccines in production. it is not the kind of thing where we'll have a ticker tape parade in new york city for the scientists that created this, and there won't be a day we can say it is over, so it will be choppy along the way but disney still has the assets that we really like. >> so normal things that people used to get treated for have been put on a back burner, so that is why walgreens is hurt, you think that reverses. >> right and both walgreens and cvs were under some pressure because the

profit ability of the nonpharmaceutical business was being challenged by amazon but as they have moved to more of a health care providing business, they are creating the visits within their stores and getting the subscription prescriptionpre prescriptions and front of the are store business but we feel that the to being has been unduly hurt by a complete lack of noncovid related medical services medical use services went way down as nobody wanted to go to the doctor and that will come back and those conditions are probably worse coming out of covid. >> stuff that is even half electric difference half needed being put off. you like procter & gamble, the cleaning products will be selling for longinger. and the whole notion of just the virus just -- just everywhere. just disgusting, isn't it? and you want everything clean. gyms, supermarkets, restaurants. so that is not going away.

and cleaning products, that could boost p&g as other things come back. >> and i think you saw a run on the products that they sell in the cleaning space and now you've had the inventory rebuild that has taken 6 to 8 months so they are in a much better position into what looks like a longer term change in behavior and that is what you look for, what are the businesses that haved a daptsed a ed a daptadapa way that will keep them strong into the future. some really aren't and you stay away from those and some in a way this was a darwinian extension event for bad businesses and maybe made good businesses stronger. >> so if you are going to retire in six months, should you sell everything should you try to time it? did you look at the overall market >> we're long term investors and i listened to the discussion you were having before our piece

together and i think you hit it, if you are a long term investor, you can't worry about what next week's covid numbers are going to be. you know that they will be bad, they have been telegraphed to be bad and bad headlines sell so we expect we'll see a choppy market >> hard to see what is right in front of your face and think, wow, i should -- but we know how the market looks ahead all right. thanks, tim. granite, solid >> that's why you choose a name. >> that's right. like prudential, the rock. all right. thank you. we'll see ya coming up when we return, some new data real esta statate tumbling rent prices pulling back into the city despite the pandemic and take a look at the top pre-market gainers in the nasdaq 100. 5g... just got real.

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♪ ♪ welcome to new york welcome back to "squawk box. time for the executive edge. big question right here in new york, how low do rents have to go to attract people into new york city during this pandemic new york real estate numbers might give us the answer and robert frank has been watching the trend it may be surprising >> it is surprising. because after more than a year of declines, new rentals in manhattan actually increase in october by 33%

now, of course one month doesn't mark a turnaround, but brokers say low prices are finally luring young renters back into manhattan. rent prices falling by 19%, that is a record drop landlords are offering over two months free rent as an incentive. good news on the sales side as well sales contracts between november 1 and november 11, so after the election, they increased 21%, that marked the first year over year increase in manhattan since the pandemic now, we've had a long way to climb back here. there are 16,000 unrented apartments in october, that also is a record. and the vacancy rate which manhattan, they could see normally around 2% now we're over 6%. you add in the city's high unemployment rate, the $9 billion budget hole in the city, the state's $16 billion budget hole and of course the prospect for higher taxes and service cuts, buyers are likely to

remain a little cautious and they have a lot of choice. this 2,000 square foot three bedroom was listed for $14,000 a month, cut by more than 20% to $10,000 a month. but guys, there are 25 other apartments for rent in the same building and that will be the challenge for landlords even though they have dropped it 19%, still could have more to go. back to you. >> so robert, when you think about the rental market, even a year out from now, is the expectation that it will be meaningfully better, is this just going to backfill the empty apartments that are sitting there vacant now >> i think this whole question of will new york come back, it is kind of a false choice. of course it will come back on the rental and sales side. the question to your point is at what price rentals down 19%, but on the sales side, we have over 10,000 empty apartments for sale,

prices there are only down between 5% and 10% so i expect that we'll see more on the rental side decline because as you point out, there is so much supply not just existing supply, but a lot of new buildings in the pipeline that were built as sales but now coming on as rentals so i suspect that we'll see more drops. but we're seeing a big increase in young people coming into the city, it is a less expensive product that they want, it is more downtown thaner east a eupt and upper west and i think that will drive forward >> okay. robert frank, thanks for bringing to us when we come back, we'll talk about some potential market headwinds, including the surge in covid cases and the uncertainty around the presidential transition, that's next right now, as we head to a break, let's take a look at some of the biggest pre-market decliners in the dow, indicated done by about 130 points

salesforce down 2%, boeing off more than 1.8% but also jpmorgan chase and walt disney that is a little bit lower. after that, you have merckhi wch is up by about 0.3%. as business moves forward, we're all changing the way things get done. like how we redefine collaboration... how we come up with new ways to serve our customers... and deliver our products. but no matter how things change, one thing never will... you can rely on the people and the network of at&t... to help keep your business connected.

good morning, welcome back to "squawk box." we've been watching the markets this morning and so far you see a bit of a mixed reaction, but continuation of the theme we saw yesterday with the dow under pressure, down by about 150 points now, and the nasdaq rebounding after a couple of rough days at the beginning of this week. right now the nasdaq indicated up about 55 points, s&p down by about 4.5. also an update on the political transition in washington president-elect biden has named ron klain to be his white house chief of staff klein klain served as obama's chief of staff in his first years

and chief of staff is probably the most influential position that you have that doesn't have to go through the senate to be confirmed. andr andrew >> and we should also say ron has been working for steve case at revolution for this past decade, helped him build revolution i was talking to steve by email last night about the move. and of course he's quite proud of ron but meantime, georgia now hand counting all the votes to decide which candidate will officially win the peach state. and while the nation waits for the votes to be certified, covid-19 cases aresurging across the country joining us on how the transition of power and covid could im pankt the markets and the economy, want to bring in james can he pand also wendy from the brookings institution. jimmy, let's talk transition

because i think that there are so many questions out there about what is happening with this transition, assuming it is biden which i think it now a done deal, but i don't know, i know i'll get tweets from people saying that that is crazy fme t say a loud did you believe that the transition will create a problem? >> i hate to give a lot of ox gasoline to the notion that somehow this still might not happen, that there is going to be some slight of hand somehow and it will end up with president trump for another four years. i know why we're talking about it here is like a good shorthand. if it was actually responsible at this point that we would start throwing out the rules about how we elect presidents and at the very last minute we were going to make donald trump president for another four years

in a way that is really extraconstitutional, i think that we would see that in the markets. the market was dropping 1,000 points a day back in the early spring i think if our message to global investors is that america is not a legitimate democracy anymore, i think that we'd be doing a lot worse than just 1,000 points down a day >> i think the question is what are the conundrums related to to a transition that isn't a transition, meaning if the biden trance transition team doesn't have access to the covid task force, to all of that information, if the president is going to withdraw troops perhaps faster than he should otherwise come so which is now the new speculation, there is august sor all sorts of things that can happen none of it seems to be built into the market and maybe it doesn't matter

why? >> i think my big concern, and i think it is the huge x factor, also in those ghrg senaeorgia s races is the worsening covid outbreak obviously it is surging whether you look at cases, hospitalizations deaths are on the rise and it would be great if during in period that the biden adminisatration was able to get a head start their chief of staff has finally got a head start in that because he knows a lot about pandemics he is kind of a wartime chief of staff. so i think that is a good beginning. clearly it would be a lot better if there was close cooperation gasoline, i'm sure you've talked about some of the post-9/11 recommendations. it would be a lot better if there was a lot of close cooperation right now and not two months from now. >> wendy, are you concerned? >> what i would like to add to that, in addition to getting the virus under control, which of course is job number one, it is getting the economy on a good

track which is equally job numbering one be soa lot that congress can do over the next weeks. to add fiscal support to this recovery and make it more robust >> but wendy, do you think that actually given all of everything else going on in washington, that you will see stimulus do you think that is realistic >> i don't know what we're going to see, but i do know that it is what the economy needs and my hope that that that need is apparent to lawmakers we have more than 10 million people who are not employed now you who were employed before the pandemic we have small business revenue done down 25%, consumer spending down more than 6% there is urgent need for policymakers to do something and i think most of them see it. >> jimmy, if you were to look at a calendar, what is the last

date at which you think the president needs to effectively concede or at least concede enough to be willing to have his team talk in earnest to the biden team before there is a meaningful problem on our hands? >> i think that problem is already starting because covid is surging so i think that is already happening. i would like to think that we're -- even though i love coming on the show, i hope we're not having this kind of conversation a week from now >> okay. i hope not either. jimmy and wendy, thank you and coming up, a crackdown on big tech can ompanies in chi, why hundreds of billions from their market value, we'll take you live to beijing. and take a look at the secretary s&p sectors winning big, energy up more than 16%, cyclicals saw gains after the vaccine news withfir mda pzeonony.

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shares of revolve are down sharply as third quarter profit rose because of lower costs, but sales missed forecasts and revolve curate luxury

apparel and footwear, the stock do down about 9.5%. and fossil seller of watches, hand bags and leather goods saw momentum on line and growth in china even as the coronavirus hits to hit some of the brick and mortar sales fossil expects fourth quarter sales to drop between 30% and 40%, but the stock is up by about 28% this morning when we come back, china's big tech crackdown, we'll get you up to speed on the new proposal, several new proposals actually, that are putting pressure on some of the biggest names there. when we started carvana, they told us

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welcome back a number of big name chinese tech stocks are actually bouncing back today after plunging yesterday a lot of concerns about what is happening with regulatory issues there eunice yoon has the latest on this stocks are up, but doesn't mean that the regulatory concern has gone away. >> no, not at all. in fact the government still has in the shed any light as to why it unveiled these anti-monopoly rules for the i.t. sector this week, but you of course there is no shortage of theories out there. one of them is that the pandemic highlighted to the leadership here of the importance of the online economy and that the industry has just been allowed to operate like the wild, wild west for way too long. another theory is that the government wants to send a message to chinese that it has the back of consumers and

investors because the authorities are encouraging people to buy more and also to invest in stocks and then finally, the third and probably most popular idea out there is that the government wants to send a reminder to china's big tech firms of who is boss now, it's unclear as to just how much these regulations are going to affect the businesses of these companies. of course there is an expectation that it will have some, but the optimists think that maybe this is going to stay a reminder over the heads of these big tech firms another scenario is that it could be a targeted crack down, and the reasoning there is that the regulations were quite specific about what would be deemed a monopolistic practice, such as, for example, subsidies to undercut your competitor, and finally, the third scenario is the nightmare scenario, and that is that this could potentially

lead to a break up of the companies, where certain parts would be hived off, that the leadership is sick and tired of all the bravado in the industry and that they might be forced to accept state investment. but one reason why, the counter argument against that, becky, is that the government here also wants to make sure that it encourages private enterprise in order to have national champions in i.t and to keep jobs the private sector employs a whole lot of people, and in fact president xi jinping says today that he wanted to be sure, and let me get the right line, that china will strive to achieve major technology breakthroughs so it's kind of difficult to get those technology breakthroughs if you're casting a chill over the entire industry. >> yeah, fine line to walk eunice, thank you. i have a feeling we'll be talking with you a lot about

this in the coming days and weeks. in the meantime, for more on china's crack down on big tech, let's bring in dwadick mckneecn and a cnbc contributor the three most likely reasons why they're doing this, what do you think the most likely scenario is? >> i think all three of those are very plausible i think this is the first attempt by the government to really define what is anticompetitive behavior this this space, and as eunice said, it's been the wild west for a long time. beijing is growing increasingly concerned about what they are calling captive ecosystems of blocking consumers into one company's service stream, but xi jinping has actually been talking about what he fears as

egregio egregious abuses of a dominant market system in 2016. on some levels, i think we should have seen this coming, but eunice makes another interesting point which i think is important for the viewers, and that is china believes that in order to compete in the new external environment that it faces that it has to generate more domestic consumption. and you can't do that if people don't want to consume on some of the largest platforms by which they make their retail purchases and that's chinese big tech. so they have to send a signal to consumers that it's safe to purchase on these platforms and that they will not be abused by big tech i think that's another plausible reason, but let me just step back and say with respect to regulators, from an economic standpoint, we know that the chinese tech companies have embedded themselves so deeply into the chinese economy that the party also fears systemic

financial risk if they do not regulate these companies, particularly if their invasio innovations and services outpace the ability to understand and regulate what the services are, so there's also a big aspect to this of making sure that the regulators stay ahead of tech. finally, on the political level, look, we know that xi jinping has been tightening his grip on all aspects of chinese society, and one way they do that is by controlling data and making sure they can control the means of communication, and big tech has really shown that they can collect data, deploy data, and that's a challenge to the party. >> not to mention what they have seen happen here, their perception at least of what some of the big tech companies might have done to the social fabric of this country. there have been so many concerns about whether russians were able or chinese government was able to kind of influence the

election by getting involved with some of these for whatever candidate they wanted to see get ahead. it does stir up some potential unrest, and you've got to imagine that that's something that they're very concerned about, given their own monopoly in terms of how they keep a pretty tight grip on their people. >> i think those are all very good points, they watch us very carefully, and they have a perception, true or false, that big tech has disrupted our political, our financial, and our social fabric, and social stability in china as you well know is key to the party remaining in power, and they do not want to see anything that will disrupt the social fab rri in china, so yes, i think this crack down is something that has been long and coming, but there are some other points that i think are key, becky, shin gin, hong kong tech index and star 50 were supposed to be new rivals to nasdaq, and to signal to

chinese tech innovators that they can list there and get all the access they need to capital, and so i think many of these companies started to really believe their own hype and that they were being reproach, and i think the chinese showed them that, no, actually we're still in charge. i do believe that they will continue to push for development of national champions. the breakup scenario, i think, goes too far, but they want to make sure that they can control what's happening in this space, because it has been the wild west for so long >> thank you we'll have you back soon a lot to talk about here thanks for your time it's good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> andrew? a lot more to come this morning. the dow dropping and the nasdaq is rising, this after yesterday's rotation reversal looking to continue. we're going to show you what is moving right after the break. and later what to expect from the hard hit airline sector

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covid cases rising and investors taking notice. stay-at-home stocks back in play we'll get an outlook for the markets and your money what will thanksgiving travel look like this year a preview of what to expect and where people are headed. that's coming up and the rise of parler, the social media platform topping the charts in the app store since the election but can it take on facebook, twitter and others we'll discuss as the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, welcome to "squawk box" right here onc cnb. i'm andrew ross sorkin along with becky quick and joe kernen. take a look at u.s. equity futures at this hour they appear to be slipping the dow looks to open down about

146 points, the nasdaq looking to rise 45 points as the work from home, stay-at-home is flipping around once again the s&p 500 looking to open down about 6 points joe. stock market sentiment has been dampened as covid cases continue to rise and virus related restrictions are being reimposed. mike santoli joins us with a market playbook. back into the docusign, mike >> well, at least for a couple of days. yesterday was the big nasdaq stocks did all the work in trying to support the s&p 500. what is interesting, though is just how the overall index has managed to make it work either way. it seemed like the cyclical stocks needed cooling off. at least for a day, the nasdaq stuff did it this is the way the year-to-date chart is shaping up. you see this here, the september 2nd high, 8 points below the closing high it's pretty much right there at this point this looks like, as i keep

saying, a pretty favorable set up if you break higher have we front loaded a lot of good news. also, 36/45 was the morning hide on monday. keep that in mind. that could be an area where there is a little bit of friction i think it's worth reminding folks that this month the actual acwx, every market in the world except for the u.s. has actually outperformed the u.s we have consumed with the implication of our elections, whether we have stimulus hopes, the covid situation here it's been a global move. look at the nikkei at a 30-year high it's breaking higher this month by elev11%. the bond market was closed let's take a look at where it sits on the ten-year yield you are in the high 9s just the other day. it's not changing the story.

again, it looks like the small cap chart vertical maybe it has to soften up a little bit and see if we can consolidate it, joe. >> you know, mike, everyone says that these high fliers were, that the time it was going to take for companies to take over the world has been brought in by covid. that was the argument that the digit digit digital transformation if it becomes less necessary to have all of those types of, you know, to be able to do docusign. it doesn't mean that the long-term outlook is any worse for these companies. you could almost see these maintain where they are, but slow down the advance, and then maybe some of the dow stocks get popular again, like we have tim talking. >> it's where the more near term opportunity is apparent. yeah, you could argue that the docusigns and zooms have built in many many years of mass adoption at this point, and their valuations are all about

the future years and how fast you get to the total potential market i wouldn't necessarily say it's going to be, i know goldman sachs yesterday in having a high target for next year says look, if faang just does nothing and every other stock goes to its 52-week high, we get a 9% return that would be nice typically not how it works you definitely get a little bit of back and forth, and profit taking along with people flowing into the cyclicals >> all right mike san ttoli, thanks a lot see you. becky. thanks, joe. new questions about a stock sale by the chairman and ceo of pfizer on the same day the drug maker announced its coronavirus vaccine was found to be more than 90% effective meg tirrell joins us now she has more on that. >> pfizer ceo albert bourla sold $5.6 million worth of stock on monday we saw this in a filing. that was under a preplanned sale triggered by the stock reaching

a secret price they reported the vaccine had 90% efficacy pfizer notes that he owns $15 million in pfizer shares, under the 10 b 51 that are common in pharma and executives have sold stock along the way. it's been garnering a lot of attention this year. pfizer is not even among the largest. it's one of the smallest if you look at this list of companies regeneron, $600 million in stock sold this year from executives and directors but that is influenced by a few very large sales from the ceo, and scientific officer, two were the founders of the company and had options that were expiring and needed to be sold. moderna, $265 million in stock sales from their executive team, and stock of course has gone up 321% this year

if you look at the break down of the executive sales. chief medical officer sales have garnered the most attention. to date, he sold about $75 million worth of stock, and pointed out a couple of months ago that he has the preprogram sales that actually sell about a million dollars worth of stock every week, and that has continued, every monday he makes a million dollars in stock sales, so november 9th, 1.2 million. november 2nd, 1 million. october 26th, $1.1 million these have been garnering attention under the 10b5-1 plans. in response to all of the attention, moderna changed policies around the plans august 6th after it started its phase 3 trial because they wanted to avoid distractions they couldn't add shares or have unscheduled shares of sales in the open market until they file for fda approval of the vaccine or discontinue the program it's garnering a lot of attention. these plans are in place so that these executives are not selling

based on information but of course they garner a lot of eyeballs, guys >> meg, that's the key yesterday when we were talking about this, i thought they had a planned sale set for a date back in august. it's not the date, it's the price to say when and if it hits this price, you go ahead and sell. >> that's my understanding we don't have a ton of information about what the 10b5-1 plan cwas. average price is 49.94, perhaps that triggered the sale. >> do you know if there are additional sales that would be triggered on any of these situations i know the company made a point of saying he still owns about five times -- he owns stock that's valued about five times the amount of his annual salary, still even after these sales were they clear about whether there would be additional sales that were triggered at any

point? >> yeah, we don't have any of the details of these 10b5-1 pla plans. i would love in all of these s.e.c. filings to click in and see what they say. stock hits $40, $50, how much will be sold we don't have any of those details on those pfizer ceo owns nine times his shares, sorry, nine times his salary in nonqualified savings plans according to pfizer. >> is this any different than a normal course of action, and it's just we're paying closer attention because the stocks have been run up so much because of the advances they have made i'm trying to put this in context with what would normally be happening >> in terms of pfizer, they have very few stock sales, if you look through all of their executive asks directors and if we can pull the board up, pfizer has $14 million in total insider sales year to date so it is not one of the companies that you're seeing the executives really selling the

most stock for companies like moderna, they have raised a lot of eyebrows because of the number of the sales, and the amount of money the top executive team has garnered under the 10b5-1 plans. good to see you. you too. we've got a lot more coming up this morning. a small number of people expected to travel this thanksgiving because of the pandemic, but those who are are headed to the sunshine state phil lebeau will explain all of that when we come back before we do that, take a look at markets right now, the dow down about 223 points right now. the nasdaq had been up it's right now about we'll call it s&p 500 down about 16 points, back in a moment students of color typically do not have access to high quality computer science and stem education. ♪ i joined amazon because

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with states putting more quarantine rules in place, airlines are expecting a quieter start to the holiday season. but thanksgiving will still be the busiest week since the pandemic began so how are carriers responding and, yeah, people go south, i think, in november, don't they, phil phil lebeau joins us now with more go south, young man. >> thanksgiving week, joe, is going to be much quieter than

what we have come to expect over the last couple of years aaa out with its forecast early this morning no surprise it's expecting far fewer people to make a trip for thanksgiving 50 million people is their estimate that's down overall about 10%. car trips, not as much as other forms of travel, down just 4.3%. airlines, they're going to be seeing the biggest impact in terms of how things will be this year, versus how they usually are. according to aaa, they expect air travel to be down just under 48%. however, this will be the busiest week thanksgiving will be the busiest week since the pandemic, and where are many people traveling, if they're not traveling to visit relatives or go somewhere where they want to go? well, they're going to florida and that's why you look at this chart. look first at the turkey there that is thanksgiving week. it's almost double, according to the people at oag, compared to the number of seats that were available back in the middle of september. oag also crunched the numbers for us, and you can see it comes

back in december, with airlines adding 92% more seat capacity when you go september through thanksgiving three stocks that we're going to point out here, first of all, united adding 28 non-stop flights to florida this was a big push that they made a couple of months ago. you'll see that this fall. you've got jet blue. it is adding flights from the new york, new jersey area, down to florida, and even alaska. alaska is adding flights from the west coast down to florida bottom line is this, guys, i think you've got covid-19 fatigue setting in, andrew, and as a result, people are saying, i want to get away i want to go where it's warm florida is where the airlines are expecting a lot of people to travel >> okay. thank you for that, phil hey, phil, before you go are you seeing any kind of cancellations as the covid rates spike in certain areas meaning are people who had planned to go watching television, seeing dr. fauci and

others saying you know what, we're not going? >> we haven't seen that come through. not yet. i'm sure there's some of that. there are no doubt people are saying we were going to go visit friends or relatives, and, you know, there's been a flare up in cases or whatever, so we have decided not to go. sure, there's some of that, but if you look at the booking data, the airlines are expecting a lot of people to book at the last minute it may not be until next week that people say, we're going down to tam pa, orlando, whatever, we need to get out of the house. i think that's what we're going to be seeing for thanksgiving and christmas. >> phil, we will continue this conversation right now the truth, by the way, is that as covid rates spike in certain areas, it's almost impossible to get on a commercial plane that would not lookly haikely have a one person if not many who have covid, even if wearing stocks.

airlines having their first big week good morning to you. the markets are moving, obviously thinking about what the world looks like in 12 months from now, and let's think about that that's going to be the positive news the question is what's going to happen between now and then in terms of the operational capacity of some of these airlines >> it's going to be a tough few months, right, i mean, we think that we'll see a million passengers a day around the thanksgiving holiday, and then around a million passengers for christmas and new year's, but going into january, we expect a pretty big dropoff we have seen it in october and november because normally we would see strong business traffic and we're just not getting that people are having a hard time figuring out how to get their own employees back at work, let alone accept business traffic. international is down 95%, and with borders closed and

quarantine rules still in place, we don't see that improving anytime soon the next thing is business traffic is down 85% year over year again, we just talked about them, you know, figuring out how to get people back at work and then leisure, we think leisure is about 80% of the way back to where it was a year ago. but southwest is out this morning with the news bit with an 8k saying they have seen a deceleration in bookings since the rise, and they don't know whether it's the rise of covid or election week i'm sorry? >> if i was a long-term investor, meaning i could put some money into something today i'm not going to look at it frankly for another five years let's put covid aside, is this just an automatic up side bet at this point or not? >> well, of course we're not allowed to say bet, but what i will say is there is, i think, three to five years is a good time horizon, and i think that

you'll do well in most of the stocks in that time frame. our view is that the domestic airlines, spirit airlines, southwest airlines, are two of our top picks, and both have operations in florida. both have big operations in florida. i heard phil talking about people traveling there this winter so yes, i think you will make money in the stocks over the next three to five years if that's your time horizon. >> let me just ask, and not just make money, i'm talking about making super money, meaning do you believe that southwest is going to get back to close to $60? do you believe that spirit is going to get back to the pre february levels. is american going to get back to the levels, two, three, four years out from now that's a real return if it's true. >> can i give you my analyst yes and no answer? >> sure. >> yes, there's lots of up side.

okay, you can see the stocks doubling tripling might be hard because remember, they have had to issue equity to the government, so they've got to -- we're going to dilute the share count based on that equity, and then american is in the market with 38 1/2 million share offering this week we expect the industry to issue equity in the next year as they try to dig themselves out of this hole. yes, we can definitely see the stocks doubling off the lows but tripling might be hard just because of the dilute. >> i'm talking if i bought today. you think today is the low still. >> we have seen the stocks get back some of the gain on monday and tuesday. they're vaccine stocks, almost, right? the vaccine is working well, and the stocks go up the vaccine doesn't work well or doesn't come or there's talk of another lock down, then the stocks are going to go down. i don't mean to punny, but it's kind of up and down.

i think, andrew, you will make money off these prices for the three to five-year time horizon. >> fair enough it's great to see you. appreciate talking to you. >> thank you thanks for your time. coming up, apple, latest pc maker to introduce a product that doesn't use intel chips so could up end the pc market, and which chip makers are going to suffer. jon fortt joins us after the break for this week's edition of "on the other hand." and stocks dropped shortly after 7 nan meter chips are delayed. "squawk box" is coming right back time now for today's aflac trivia question. what female musician and entrepreneur made this year's forbes list of america's richest

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i'm terry bradshaw. >> and i'm rocky bryer. >> on this veterans day our heartfelt thanks to all our military veterans for their service. >> we honor our veterans and those who are no longer with us. >> to all our military serving around the world, thank you for defending the many freedoms we enjoy. >> tune in to salute to veterans for discussions about the issues our military veterans face daily.

now, the answer to today's aflac trivia question, what female musician and entrepreneur made this year's forbes list of america's richest self-made women for the first time, the answer, rihanna, according to forbes, her cosmetics line, fenty beauty, a partnership with lymh had $600 million in sales in 2019. apple this week becoming the latest computer maker to introduce machines that don't use intel based ships. that means the makers of the two major operating systems, windows and mac are both now manufacturing nonintel computers. so could this up end the market? well, jon fortt is here to tell us in "on the other hand" and jon, what are you thinking >> not going to lie, this is up ending the pc market if you're intel, this is bad you've got amd attacking you

from the mainstream pcs, under a thousand dollars microsoft taking a little stab at the high end with an arm chip in the surface pro x that was client. now you've got apple loud coming for your head. the claims apple is making with the m 1 chip in the mac book pro are insane, 2.8 times the speed versus intel and up to 20 hours of battery life. the problem isn't that apple is going and doing its own arm chip it's to compete with apple other pc may recollectekers are going intel alternatives too they have to do customer work or amp up chip performance so much that they blow apple's claims out of the water, and all of this happening as intel is having trouble manufacturing chips anyway intel is in trouble. >> you don't see a lot of good options for intel here >> well, on the other hand, you can't just believe everything you see in these movie length apple commercials that they call launch events.

you realize that's what these things are now, is streaming intel is not in that big of a trouble yet. apple says how much faster the m1 chip is compared to the old intel core i-7 chips, but intel has an 8 core i-9 now, until we get real world reviews and bench marc marks. the battery life is impressive the difference between ten hours of battery life on a laptop is less significant than five hours and ten. bottom line, yes, the pressure is on for intel in the pc market like it never has been before. it's not just battling amd, it's battle qualcomm and nvidia and apple. but for intel, this is a home game they have made mistakes but know the market when the new chips come out in 2021, those comparisons are going to look a lot like a competitive pc market, not an up ended one. >> but, jon, if you're in a situation like apple, why

wouldn't you make your own chips if you can control it better, have it more directed and go beyond i guess the question becomes can other companies do the same thing or is that -- is it just apple who's going to be able to really focus on these things and do so many different things, be experts in lots of different things. >> apple is in this unique position, becky, because they make the mac operating system themselves they make so many different components, very vertically integrated an hp, lenovo, getting the operating system from microsoft, they're getting chips from intel and amd and putting it together in their own custom way. apple can tune its stuff special. the downside potentially is if apple doesn't do as great a job with those individual components as specialists like intel. so not only is apple trying to make it own cpus now, it's also trying to make its own 5g chips. can it do all of that at once, and craft its products apple is apple

maybe they can, but maybe they can't. >> jon, thank you. gives us a lot to chew on. good to see you. >> good to see you >> joe thanks, becky. coming up, mike wilson of morgan stanley on the markets the futures right now were down more than 200. now down 160 on the dow. nasdaq back in the green, barely, up 17 points we'll be right back. at calvert, we know responsible investing is hard.

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. let's get over to dom chu. you're going to talk about what is on everyone's mind, recent vaccine news, rising covid cases sparking more shut downs and what's happening in stay-at-home stocks, reopening stocks, and very very serious things honestly, and it's, you know, it's just unfortunate to see but i know that in the back of your mind we're on the same page i know you know it's 7:30 right now. you know what that means. >> which means almost three groups have teed off we'll get into that at some

other point. >> maybe when it's more appropriate but it is going on right now, and it's exciting in november >> it is, and the days are shorter, which is why they have to tee off sooner. >> so we get to watch it >> exactly >> and joe, to your point, this notion that the recent vaccine news has snapped at least short-term some existing trends this year is fairly evident. as you can see, the nasdaq etf, that tracks the nasdaq 100, the s&p up 11%, very respectable and the dow is up about 2 1/2%, so the trailing one there, but what's been driving a lot of that out performance with those technology related nasdaq type stocks is the work-from-home theater. take a look at these particular issues they're the ones that have benefitted the most since the pandemic lows because we have seen some kind of a move from a work-at-home, stay-at-home environment. zoom video has been a real leader, massive surge this year. over the last week, down 15%

peloton is down 16%. the gym-at-home type situation playing to the downside as we get a vaccine, and then docusign down 11% these are the stocks that have come down dramatically, the ones that have gone up in the meantime have been beaten up the most travel and tourism, shopping, physical going out location type things american airlines, by the way, up 3% over the last week the most heavily shorted stock in the s&p 500 right now sl green realty office space in manhattan, maybe people go back to work. up 20%, and then chevron, will people consume more fuel that's up 13% over the course of the last weekme but becky, the real issue is the recent out performance we're talking apple, amazon and microsoft. those particular names have really started to outperform in just the last two as concerns about covid exist again. watch those megacap names. they seem to be the darlings on the shopping list as things move

towards perhaps at least higher count f counts for infections and covid. back over to you. >> and i saw the green pocket square i know why >> i know you do, and joe does, and andrew does, we'll leave it there. >> we'll see you later. >> you got it. our next guest says the bull market has a long way to run, but there are likely a few more cheap shots before the end of the year the correction that began two months ago may not be yet. joining us is mike wilson, chief investment officer and strategist for morgan stanley. this is a bold call. you're saying despite the fact we're sitting in spitting distance of all time highs, you don't think the bull market is over there's more room to run. >> thanks, becky i don't know if that's bold or not. we're in a new bull market people recognize that. the market has been telling us that all year. i think the tricky part now, this has been an exhausting year for everyone we're just trying to get to the year end, and you know, that's

really the main message of our note last week is look, we have been in this range we had a terrific move, you know, into the election and past the election we've got the great vaccine news and that's how markets trade we kind of priced that all, you know, monday, and then you can see, you know, markets kind of got tired again. so, you know, i think it behooves us, i think, to continue to be disciplined on entry points we like to bar webell we have to have exposure to growth stocks, and we have been favoring cyclical parts of the market the story from mere for the market is going to be one of earnings this has been about multiple expansion. typically happens when you have a recession, and the market looks forward and it becomes a story of, you know, owning stocks where the operating leverage and earnings are greatest and that favors kind of the pro cyclical parts of the market just be a bit disciplined around entry points it's a bull market. >> you know, goldman yesterday came out with a big call and

said by the end of next year, they expect the s&p at 4,300, that's a 20% move. does that sound reasonable to you? >> i think that's a possibility. i mean, that seems like a lot. the way we think about it, becky is that we think the average stock could easily be up 20% we're into the part of the recovery where the average stock is going to do better than the broad index, so we're trying not to focus on the index level, and we're trying to find pockets of opportunity where stocks can go up a lot more than 20% even and that's the story as investors, trying to find these idiosyncratic opportunities. >> when you talk about the cheap shots the market still could get this year, i mean, you had called for a 10% pull back in august, another in october you think we may not have really made it through all the troubles that we have seen, that we haven't gotten our way through this correction at this point maybe. >> just the risk reward at the high end of the range is not as good and yes, we absolutely could go back down again if, you know,

the covid situation deteriorates, look, vaccine is great news that's not going to help us in the next couple of months. we're dealing with the runoff election in georgia. that has big implications for the senate, and that to me, the political outcome we got from the election is quite good you know, it's a divided government at the congressional level. if you get a blue sweep, we're probably not going to be as constructive for some reason, mainly taxes going up, and also that may spur a further increase in rates which could put more pressure on valuation. there's some things that are visible, and of course there's always things that can hit the market here or there but the bottom line is our framework, which we try to be disciplined about, suggested at 3,600, we're pretty full for the time being, even if the 12-month view offers really good upset. >> that's sprinteresting. you think the good news potentially has been baked in, and anything we might hear could take away from that, for instance, if the democrats were to win in the georgia senate seats or if you hear bad news from moderna, we're

anticipating, i guess, that moderna's results on its vaccines will be good news because it's the same mrna technology that the pfizer vaccine used and came back with better than 90% efficacy there's potential for all of that news to kind of get let out, the air to get let out of the market >> well, i think that news has been let out that's sort of the point which is that we got a very good outcome i think in the election results for the market, the divided government, and then we got the great news on pfizer as you mentioned it's similar to results we should see from next week as well from others, and you know, i think this is the story is more anticipatory and by the way, once again, we're not telling people to necessarily sell the news on this across the board, but just be a little bit careful about chasing and that's what happened on monday. people got carried away on monday, and we're just saying that period of time, you still need to be disciplined on your valuation. this is not back in march and april when everything was shach.

things getting expensive again >> it's good advice. good to hear from you. >> thank you >> andrew. >> thanks, becky when we come back, the rise of par ler, the social media platform it has been rocketing to number one in apple's app store since the election can it take on facebook and twitter. what does it mean for society? we're going to discuss all of it as we head to a break. take a look at this morning's s&p winners. we have only one standard

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welcome back to "squawk box," everybody. the united states recording another single day case record for the virus yesterday at 144,305 cases. nationwide, hospitalizations also at a record at more than 65,000 case loads are also rising in all 50 states at the same time for the first time since the pandemic began, the up ticks prompts new york, the former epicenter of the virus to institute some new restrictions, including capping indoor gatherings to just ten people and imposing curfews on bars and

restaurant new jersey's restaurant restrictions also go into effect today. dr. scott gottlieb will join us to talk about the battle against covid and the news from moderna that it has enough cases in its vaccine trial to look at the data he'll be coming up in just a little bit. coming up, the rise of parler did you know it's pronounced "parlay," becky? >> only because you told me. >> it's from the french for "talk" is it too pretentious i like to be classy. >> yes >> we'll stick with parler it was designed to be called parlay once it's out of the bag you can't do it. facebook and twitter facing more regulations, what about parler "squawk box" will be right back.

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welcome back to "squawk box" this morning, parler or parlay as joe was saying before the commercial break which positions itself as a free speech alternative to twitter has been growing fast but how big is it and does it really have a chance to rival the big social networks julia boorstin has been looking into it and joins us now with more on that good morning. >> good morning to you, andrew, in the wake of twitter and facebook placing warnings on some of the president's posts, conservative social media app parler, and i'm going to call it parler, surged to the top of the

apple and google app stores in the past week. censored tower estimates that parler was downloaded over 2 million times across the u.s. app store and google play the week after the election. that's more than 30 times higher than the prior week with approximately 5.4 million installs total now, parler doesn't release daily user numbers but its downloads are a fraction of twitter's 36 million daily active users in the u.s. and20 million across the u.s. and canada sensor tower says it sees no indication that twitter uses are migrating to parler. twitter had a 54% increase in downloads the week after the election from the week prior to the election plus, parler has had glitches from the influx of users and it's not entirely free speech. there needs to be some limits after pornographic images were posted on the platform and what happens on parler, doesn't just stay on parler a small town police chief resigned after posting violent

threats on the app, and perhaps most notable, though high profile conservatives such as ted cruz joined parler months ago, they haven't slowed down the amount that they're tweeting guys, back over to you. >> let's talk about money, monetizable money, how are they going to do it and do you think there are going to be folks that are going to want to put -- go ahead. >> i think the goal is to monetize with advertising, as to whether or not there's demand there, there are plenty of conservative platforms such as news max and fox, thatch drawn advertising. the question is whether the advertising market is as big as the market is for ads on an open platform like twitter. some might argue it's not. there's also the potential for subscription service, which we have of course reported that twitter is considering, though once you ask someone to pay for something, that does reduce the number of people who are in the potential market as well

>> thanks, julia our next guest says that the growth of parler can't be ignored. mainly because he says extremists are flocking to the pam platform, though he does concede, parler is not primarily extremist. ceo and director of the antidefamation league. good to see you, i think it's as simple as facebook needs monitoring twitter needs monitoring, if you're going to be an open platform for discussions and everything else. i don't see how you need to view this any differently than what you have been trying to do with the other social media web sites, you think it's going to be worse here because conservatives are going there, extremists, jonathan >> joe, first of all, it's nice to see you, and i always appreciate the chance to chat. look, parler is extremely interesting, and i think there's absolutely nothing wrong with having platforms where conservatives or liberals, libertarians, independents,

everyone has the right to free speech the question is, joe, do we think that everyone has -- free spee speech equals freedom of speech. there are lots of prominent conservatives on the site as you were just reporting. the reality is we have seen an extraordinary rise of white supremacists, qanon, neo-nazis, anti-vaccs, using parler as an outlet because they're not finding a home on facebook and twitter anymore. i think those services are far from perfect what i think we have to ask ourselves is whether or not, and i think what parler has to ask its itself is whether it wants to be truly a public square like the founder has talked about or a fraternity party where the loudest, you know, most sensationalist voices are able to dominate.

>> like twitter for the left, jonathan >> left, right, joe, i have to tell you, i don't think these labels apply. >> you understand what i'm saying, one man's extremist is another man's -- on twitter that's not even a public forum anymore, jonathan. i mean, maybe you don't have the -- what you just described but you've got, you know, the unsavory elements from the other side free to go wild on twitter. that's not right that's the same discussion we have every time. >> free speech, in my opinion, isn't freedom to slander >> i agree i agree. >> but twitter needs, you know, it's good for the goose is good for the gander, and twitter, you know, cast the first stone twitter has censorship now, basically, jonathan. which is worse >> what's wonderful is that there are plenty of places where one can express their opinion, whether it's on cnbc, twitter,

parler or gab. i think the question we've got to wrestle with is what kind of society we want. look, joe, if you want to look up holocaust denialism, go to parler if you want to look up race theory, go to parler go to gab. there are plenty of places, but for those of us who are parents, for those, you know, who care about the discourse, i think what we need to make sure, whether you're a corporate advertiser, worried about brand safety or you're a government regulator, worried about kids' safety, that these services simply don't allow incitement to violence and don't allow hate >> jonathan, you have been on. we love having you on, but you have been on many times, and what you just said, all those points you just made, i could have inserted facebook into that from all of your previous appearances here it wouldn't have been parler you would have said the same thing about facebook, just take out parler, and put in facebook,

and you're not -- nobody is going to argue with you on any of those things. but you could have said facebook, so where's the distinction? >> mark zuckerberg and jack and the others have actually argued with me, and it was only when we launched not for profit to hold them responsible when corporate advertisers pulled off, big public personalities pulled off. government regulators started investigating, holocaust denialism, armed militia groups, they started to come down. ultimately, here's what i would say, the question isn't right or left, it's simply put rules of the road, you should ask yourself this question, should parler -- >> you're kind of making it about right, and it shouldn't be all of these different platforms ought to adhere to exactly what you're talking about >> i feel that way and the question will be whether the honestly at the end of the day, whether the rules of the road, on cable television i can

watch fox or cnbc or cnn, and i certainly can turn on the services that i want but you guys are liable for what you publish, what you broadcast. we think section 230 needs to be examined so that we hold the social media companies to the same standard that you and andrew and becky and everyone else is held to in traditional media. >> my wish, i don't know whether -- we would be classy if we said parlay, they should have spelled it parlay, we're americans and we're not going to do it. >> that might be banned on twitter. i think that's probably going to be, you can't say freedom on twitter. anyway, my wish for parler would be it does all the things that you say but it doesn't silence one side versus the other.

that would be the opposite of twitter at this point. and also the news. twitter has very little for me, to be amongst with you when i look at it. the selection of news. everything that happens is catered to a certain type of person that's why there's this movement among certain people to look for an alternative, i think. but all of them, i agree with you, jonathan should have restrictions on hate speech and any of the things that you just holocaust denial, any of those things. >> i believe in free enterprise and i believe in competition, i would like nothing more than to see a thousand flowers bloom i would simply say the following, what we want to make sure is, again, even as those flowers bloom, the publishers bear some responsibility not just to their shareholders, right, but to the society in which we all want to live. it's pretty basic, joe, right. that's what we're talking about here >> real quick, jonathan, real quick because it's clearly the issue, and i think joe is trying to bring it up in a different way, but i'm curious where you

land, what's happening on twitter, for example, or even with news organizations around calling the election or not letting politicians say they won or trying to quote unquote undermine democracy, what do you think the answer should be because clearly you can say certainly things on parler that you can't say right now on twitter. >> well, i think by that what you mean is can you say lies, can you say things that aren't true look, as long as the platform is willing to take responsibility for the content, you can say whatever you want. once you start to do that, whether it's publishing anti-vacc information, that misinforms people, that's a problem. denying a holocaust in ways that suggest it never happened, that's a problem, and when it comes to telling people that polling places are closed or the vote isn't valid, i think things like that, andrew, ultimately are a problem. >> we're all on the same page, i think, jonathan, it's good we always come to the sameplac

by the end we just haven't decided on whether it's parler or parlay, i don't know but it is a discussion we're going to have again, i think, jonathan, so. >> i hope so >> you're making some progress you have said that, with zuckerberg, i think you said so at least these appearances are helping. anyway, we got to run. jonathan, thank you. see you. becky. when we come back, woe'll b talking to dr. scott gottlieb. more about what's happening with coronavirus. stick around, "squawk box" will be right back. (♪ )

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good morning, futures are bucking one of the trends we have seen this week. the nasdaq's holding on to a premarket gain well, now it's the dow and s&p that are pointing lower. in covid cases, they are exploding across the united states we have seen an alarming spike, eight straight days now of 100,000 new infections former fda commissioner dr. scott gottlieb is going to weigh in on what states need to do right now to help stop the spread and barry sternlicht's spac chooses its target, going to join us with the ceo of the health care company he's about to take public

the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now >> good morning, and welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc worst levels of the day we're seeing here. i'm joe kernen along with becky quick and andrew ross sorkin u.s. equity futures down almost 275. i'll go with that. you can see the nasdaq continues to be in the green barely and the s&p indicated down about 20 points or so. with what we are seeing, the backdrop, it is kind of interesting that we're so close to all time highs, if by any measure this rivals the spring when everything started or even the resurgence in the summer, so with all of this happening, there's a bit of a disconnect. i don't know if it's a disconnect with the economy as

much as it is with the stock market, but we're getting there with the economy, with bars. i didn't know bars were open in new york did you guys know bars were open in new york. andrew >> they can be open as long as they serve food. that's been the thing. that's why you have bars serving things like peanut butter and jelly sandwich. >> you can saddle up to the side of the bar and drink. >> you're supposed to wear it except when you're drinking. >> except for when you're eating that's the whole thing. >> eating, i'm 30 feet away from anyone else. >> you can drink like this >> exactly here's what we're talking about, another record for u.s. coronavirus cases and the continuation of a worrying trend. meg tirrell joins us now with the very latest on the pandemic. hi, meg. >> hey, joe, well, these numbers are really just staggering to look at. we had 144,000 new cases in the united states reported yesterday. that's a new record and of course it is eight days that we have seen more cases than 100,000 in the u.s

the first started on november 4th and it stayed above that level since then now, it's not just cases, though, even though those are accelerating the 7-day average of new cases is up 41% week over week hospitalizations are at new records, 65,000 people in the hospital and deaths are on the rise too we had more than 1,500 deaths reported in the u.s. yesterday, and the seven-day average of deaths is now over 1,000 again, and that is rising guys, this is really happening everywhere, unlike the spring and summer, which were really regional this is happening all over the country. you're seeing states like alaska, saying that every area is on high alert, colorado warning that 84% of its icu beds are in use wisconsin had to add a new level of warning to its covid da dashboard. critically high as cases surge you can see the midwest is really being hit the hardest in terms of that. in the northeast, we're doing a

little bit better. as you were talking about in new york, governor cuomo, on bars, restaurants, gyms and gatherings of people, limiting those to ten. as we are seeing cases rise here in new york state to levels we haven't seen since april you can see there are 4,820 reported yesterday governor cuomo saying that some of the recent covid spread has resulted from halloween parties, small indoor gatherings and noting that if you look at where cases are coming from, if you do the contact tracing, you'll see three main areas, establishments where alcohol is served, gyms, and indoor gatherings at homes bars and restaurants have to close at ten, indoors gatherings and outdoor gatherings can't be more than ten people in new york guys. >> so ten. a lot of this is confusing to me, meg. i guess that i don't need restrictions to be told what restrictions are i can't imagine siding up to a bar. i don't care how much i need a drink, i'm not headed to do that

anytime soon are you, meg or a gym i don't want to go to a gym, sweats on. are people back in gyms at this point? >> yeah, some people are yeah >> i'm sounding bad. i'm sounding like i'm too worried at this point. i understand that. maybe young people, but i don't know but it just seems like you can self-govern a lot of things. i don't need to be told not to go to a bar after 10:00. anyway, beck you're going to thank me. >> you're not awake after 10:00. >> no, i'm not, i'm not awake after 8:00 >> for more on the surging u.s. case count, let's bring in dr. scott gottlieb of course he's former fda commissioner and cnbc contributor, and serves on the boards of both pfizer and illumina let's talk first of all about the hospitalizations we know the case count is up and those numbers are incredibly

dramatic there are always people who say we're doing more testing and those people aren't getting as sick hospitalizations are a key measure. what does it tell you right now? >> it's rising very quickly, and that's what's concerning yesterday we hit 65,000 hospitalizations, piercing the previous records, and icu admissions are going up quickly, as well as 12,000 people in the icus hospitalizations are rising by about 1,600 people a day that's going to continue to increase as well, and the reason you're not seeing too many health care systems get pressed right now is because as meg pointed out, the infection is distributed around the country, whereas previously the ekgs wpis were regionalized. this is across the country every hospital system is a little pressed right now a handful overwhelmed, wisconsin, parts of texas, utah, south and north dakota the pace is very concerning.

and i think we're going to get back to discussions about preserving hospital capacity, do hospitals suspend elective surgeries, when do they implement the plans? they can pivot very quickly. you want to do it with some lead time so you can empty out beds in anticipation of surging infection. >> what we saw back in the spring was that new york was able to garner resources from all over the country and those resources were ventilators, they were equipment, and they were medical personnel who came here from other places to help out, to make sure that the doctors and nurses here were given a little bit of a respite. is that going to happen this time around if the cases are everywhere >> yeah, that's the challenge. i think that on the equipment side, we should be okay. we have more equipment and there is more equipment in the stockpile. although you're going to start hearing about shortages of masks in certain institutions because not every hospital has been able to stockpile in equipment. the bigger challenge is going to be the personnel we talk about how many beds we

have, and how many icu beds we have how many ventilators are available. it takes specially trained personnel to staff those beds. hospitals previously were able to create new icus out of scratch. they turned their anesthesia wards, post acute care facilities surgical care facilities in icus to take care of covid patients. they're not going to be able to do this this time around the way they were getting them before is getting swing health care personnel those folks are stretched thin we have this army of mobile health care personnel that move from region to region in the country, even in normal times, around flu season they do it to backstop parts of the country, hospitals getting pressed. that group of people is going to be extremely stretched in this current wave >> doctor, i want to talk to you about airplanes right now, and

specifically coming up on thanksgiving, we were just talking to phil lebeau, a huge number of people expected to get on airplanes for thanksgiving. i know you have said that your family is going to hang tight and celebrate in 2021. how dangerous do you think it is really, and let me give you a stat here. if you were rolling through salt lake city, for example, where the positivity rate is something like 22% right now, that means if there were 3030 peop0 peopleg on an airplane, 60 of them would be covid positive. what does that say to you? >> the airplane itself is a distinct risk from the trip to and from the airport, and just moving around. there are risks associated with being on an airplane we perceive them to be lower i have worked with the airlines on some of these things. overall we think the air quality is high on an airplane, and the risk is lower, unless you're sitting next to someone who has covid, not wearing a mask and taking precautions the bigger risk is the mobility.

when you look at the epidemic from the beginning, and look at how the contours of the epidemic rose and fell, it tracked closely with mobility. the more people moved around, the more they spread the virus there's been elegant studies that show if people go to the store one less time a week, you could substantially reduce spread the fact that so many people are moving around at the same time. >> just to clarify, if 20% of the folks on an airplane were covid positive, even with masks, you think that's okay? >> no, i think that's a risk when you have places where there's a great density of infection, places where it's epidemic, you're going to have more people coming out of that region who have the virus, and that's why we have seen, you know, places where this has become epidemic. they have closed bars, restaurants, you're right, if you're taking a flight out of salt lake city, and a high percentage of the local population is infected more

people are likely to be on the plane who have the infection the risk of spread in transportation correlates with the perspective lance in the community in which the people derive that is absolutely a fact. but the bigger risk of thanksgiving is just going to be -- it's not going to be any one setting, the mobility, the people moving around and people coming together in congregant settings, where they feel safe pu might be asymptomatic. >> different places where there's 22%. they're traveling around it just seems like you don't have to think that hard about it if they're dissuading gatherings of ten people or more, how do you put a hundred people on an airport. that's ten times ten if you're not allowing gatherings, i don't know how you can feel safe getting on an airplane. >> we're seeing outbreaks in schools. the local school district where i am right now, the middle school and high school is closed for a number of days because of a very large outbreak in the last 24 hours.

that had something to do with that will wea halloween, parents saying i'll have 5, 10 people over, and now there's an outbreak because of it the message is this is really one last surge of infection we have to grapple with i believe 2021 is going to be party. naturally we're going to have technological tools that will help us thwart the infection better i'm on the board of pfizer, the monoclonal antibodies. we're not going back to the broad based lock downs, we're smarter than that now. we can target the mitigation now, but we have to take prudent steps. you're smart enough to know not to go to a bar people need to take prudent steps in their personal lives and that means reducing their mobility, trying to find excuses not to go out, not excuses to go out. >> as a total aside, and i'm not going down the road of saying that there are downsides to quarantine or any of those

thing, but we're having a discussion about walgreens earlier and why the stock was down so much, because of so many noncovid medical issues that just aren't being addressed for the past eight or nine months, and i know, i understand hip replacement, elective surgery, but i'm just wondering how long before you would actually see something and what would be the highest risk medical procedures or medical issues that are being put off that could come back to haunt you? you certainly wouldn't want to skip chemo, i know that, but what could be the biggest problem areas for people not getting normal medical attention that they would have for nine months >> we're seeing it right now, you know, rising deaths in 20 and 30-year-olds, those are deaths of despair, rising rates of addiction i think the biggest challenge is the mental health crisis on the back end of this routine screening for cancer, people for vaccinations, rising

rates of infections because we see missed childhood vaccinationings, we're going to have a lot of accrued morbidity, and it's going to come at a time when people are displaced, jobless, lost their insurance, that's why you're going to see a push in congress among the people associated with the president-elect biden to expand access to coverage and make sure people can get good coverage in 2021 we have accrued morbidity from a public health challenge is a real challenge i would worry about the cancer screening. >> what kind of numbers. you can use a small percentage of things that happen on a big percentage of people, and the numbers could, you're talking tens of thousands of accrued morbidity from covid. >> it's not just small numbers you look at the rates, and i can't quote it offhand, you look at the rates of people who skipped mammograms this year you're going to have undetected breast cancers that are going to present at stage 2 or stage 3 that might have been presented at stage 1

people who missed chemotherapy visit during the shut down, maybe their cancer went into remission, but now it's more likely to come back again. so there's a lot of accrued morbidity that takes time to play out things won't be manifest right away we're seeing it already. we're going to see more in 2021. that's a real challenge, joe, it's going to press the health care system, we have already seen, you know, life expectancy declining. i think 2021 is going to be a difficult year from that standpoint, covid aside. can we ask you just about moderna. there's speculation that moderna's results are going to be maybe as good as the results we got from pfizer that's what dr. anthony fauci said yesterday, they have no reason to expect it wouldn't be. that would be great news if you could get an equally effective vaccine that would give us lots more doses because we know there's going to be a shortage or a huge number of people wanting the pfizer one

what happens if it's not as effective, if it's let's say, 70%, 60% >> i don't think it needs to be spot on what pfizer results were first of all, the pfizer results were an interim result, more than 90% effective we hope the efficacy is going to hold the moderna vaccine, 80% effective or 75% effective that's ball mark enough. that's approximately the same. that vaccine may not be fully comparable but comparable enough that its utility is going to be comparable to the other vaccines in the market that might be a little bit less, a little bit lower. the bottom line is for 2021, i think what's going to likely happen is the vaccine you get is the vaccine that's available in the place that you went in to to get vaccinated there's not going to be excess supply to pick your vaccine. having more than one manufacturer in the manufacture is exceedingly important that we

can vaccinate the population when these things become generally licensed if it's sort of ballpark, and i would anything above 75% efficacy put it is in the range that's going to be comparable from a public health stained point, i think that's going to be a good result. >> just to circle back on our conversation, we have a number of viewers tweeting in, making the point that a positivity rate when we were talking about 22% in salt lake doesn't mean the entire population, that 22% of the entire population has covid but there seems to be a bit of a guessing game about how to extrapolate out from a positivity rate given that some of those people are going to be symptomatic, and that's why they're going to get a test, and may be asymptomatic folks as well, getting tested for various reasons as well. how do you think about the positivity rate and that extrapolat extrapolated out over the population of a city, for example.

>> the positivity rate is a measure of how much testing you're doing it's a measure of how much infection there is places that do testing and focus the testing around acute care facilities are going to have higher positivity rates, they're not testing a lot of people, and testing a pool of patients that's more likely to be six you have to look at what's going on in the market utah is doing a reasonable degree of testing. their rising rate is an indication there's more infection they're missing. when they test people, they're picking up a lot of positives, that means the people not testing are likely to be positive as well presymptomatic or asymptomatic when you look at a place like new york new york has a low positivity rate, but rising cases, there were 5,000 cases yesterday, the positivity rate was under 3%, that's because new york is doing an enormous amount of testing. even though they're doing an enormous amount of testing, they have a lot of cases, the positivity rate stays low. the positivity rate isn't an indication of how much infection there is they're turning over cases,

which is good, getting people into isolation, and quarantine. >> dr. gottlieb, thank you really great to see you. >> thanks a lot. >> thank you andrew, we'll send it over to you. coming up on the other side of this break, we've got billionaire investor, barry sternlicht, he's going to be joining us he found a spac target and is going ahead with a more than $4 billion deal. we'll talk all about it. as we head to a break, check out shares of southwest. they are lower after the airline said the revenue improvement has slowed in recent weeks we'll explain. stay tuned you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc when you switch to xfinity mobile,

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will online for less than a hundred. bottom line is you got to do it. it's such an important thing that you can control >> take charge of your financial wellness at cnbc.com. the futures down 250 points, nasdaq remains up a little up about 9, 10 points, s&p is down let's bring in jim paulson, chief investment strategist at loop hold group. i wouldn't ask you to predict the next month, obviously that's too hard to do but with a little bit of weakness we have seen after this great run up, do you think this is the start of maybe a bit of a retrenchment given the covid backdrop, the election backdrop, et cetera. >> the covid is serious right now, and we could certainly have some fall out from that, particularly if it gets into the economy, joe in some sense, i think it's

going to be more of a first quarter economic event than a fourth quarter economic event. i think the numbers are going to stay pretty good here. it could become a bigger issue in the first quarter and it wouldn't be surprising if the market, you know, felt some of that, if closures, you know, announcements, went on all over. i tell you what, with the vaccine news, and current earnings momentum, i don't think the market will go down very far because it's not a far window between where we are right now and where we might be in the spring, which could be a totally different covid situation. >> so if you -- are you bringing us any of those arcane historical correlations based on gdp or unemployment or whatever, and what that's likely to bring? i mean, it's been working for you. i don't know how you, you know, throw a bunch of stuff in a

blender and come out with a bullish thesis what have you looked at recently >> well, you know, i think one of the things that's important to realize, you know, because day in and day out, we've got so many things going on we have a senate still up in the air. we've got the covid explosion going on, a vaccine or not you know, it's important to recognize where you are, too, just in this recovery. and i think we're early in this recovery the output gap in this country right now is almost record setting rgs sti setting still. it's a little better than it was a couple of months ago there's no way policy officials will stand for this big of an outp output divot back to 1950s. returns on the stock market, when you're in a lower output gap, it's spectacular, 25%

annualized returns, and the stock market doesn't do well until you close the output gap i think it's important to realize for all the generations we may have yet in the next few months that this recovery is probably going to be a market year event and probably an up side for stocks. >> the old out put gap i knew you would have something, and looking at that, that equates to a 25% average return. what did you say, over next 12 months >> no, just whenever the output gap is in the lower kwquartel, stocks do 20% annualized returns. >> are you waving, becky or stretching i can't tell >> stretching. >> i have a spy cam, and that's

how we let each other know that they want in, and becky just did a big stretch, and okay, so you don't have anything about the output gap for paulsen how about sentiment, jim, that's another thing that you obviously can't ignore when you got covid and things like this, it's impossible to get bullish sentiment too overheated, i think, isn't it? >> i'm with you on that. as far as the stock market is concerned, joe, to me we're almost at record highs we have had this huge stock market surge and there's still just to me a lot of caution. to me, rather than just look at surveys or something, just look at the behaviors here, still we've still got people piling in the fwogold, even though it's a year high. 4 1/2 trillion dollars of money market funds being held, even though they have zero yields people are every week piling

into bond funds and etfs and out of stock funds and etfs, the s&p index is still closer to record highs relative to high data investing than record lows, there's just so much evidence to me of cautious behavior that tells me there could be a lot more brought to the party. >> jim, thanks, you always take time we got to get the data jim paulsen, 8:30 on the east coast, rick santelli standing by with some breaking economic data some of it might be higher, rick. >> some of it may be higher, october read for consumer price index, unchanged unchanged. strip out food and energy, it's still unchanged. these are definitely cooler than expected let's go way back, year over year, up 1.2 core, it's up 1.6. every built of data is lighter by a tenth or so than we were expecting. if for a historical perspective,

from march of 18 to march of 20, 25 reads, 2% or higher jobless claims continue to move down 709,000. and of course this follows a slightly revised 757,000, and if we look at continuing claims a week in arrears, well, 6,786,000. 6 million, 786,000 this is the first breach of the 7 million mark, which is something important. we know there's other programs with regard to claims and federal claims that may be put into the calculus, but these two are pretty good, and there was a subtle revision on continuing claims, joe, originally released at 7.285 and now stands at 7.222 million but under 7 million, and if we look at real average hourly earnings year over year for october, they were 3.2% that's an october number, and if we look at weekly year over

year, they were up 4.4%. all in all, the data on claims is better than expected, considering what we're going through. cooler cpi, so tomorrow we'll look for ppi, and of course on earnings, this is about as expected as they continue to ramp up even though various parts of the economy may not be fully participating. joe and the gang, back to you. >> okay, rick. thank you. and stay tuned, leave your mic on because liesman is here, and maybe we can find something for you guys to talk about later, i don't know steve liesman, do you hear anything that just was so outrageous from santelli that you need to address it or no >> from rick, no i want to talk about the output gap that paulsen was talking about. >> i knew that would get your blood going. >> it's exciting and big story it measures how well we're performing relative to how we should be performing look, the only negative here that you have to bring up is claims are coming down

that's good, continuing claims are coming down. it's the pandemic unemployment, emergency unemployment numbers that you have to watch which is the people rolling off their benefits into the extended benefit program. that's up 159,000. it's up less than -- and that's for the week of 10/24. it's up less than it was in the prior week but it's still going up, so part of what you're seeing in the improvement is real improvement in the economy. the other part you're seeing people roll off benefits into the -- regular benefits entoolt -- into the extended benefit program. it brings up a question going forward which is the extent to which once those extended benefits run out, what happens and that raises the question of stimulus, and i think it was jim that was talking about this fascinating, and i know it's a little -- it's really a difficult topic to talk about. it's this race in the economy between the vaccine and the surge in the pandemic right now,

and how all of that figures out. the other thing i want to look at, which i did not have time because i was interested in the claims numbers was what's happening on the inflation side. when i think about inflation, and maybe rick wants to comment on this, i have to think that given all of the fed policy that's out there 120 billion a month in purchases, 0 rates as far as the eye can see, there must be a very powerful deflationary force going on in the united states and globally that all of this fed policy is leaning against, and all it can do is keep us at unchained, so it really raises the question as to what the true direction of prices would be in this country in the absence of this massive central bank stimulus in the united states and abroad. >> yep with all of those great technological things we know sort of soften the blow sometimes. >> that too. >> anyway. >> absolutely. >> thank you liesman,

lies-mania, you too, rick, not to sell the santelli ans short because there are many out there. andrew. after the break, billionaire investor, barry sternlicht, we have been telling you all about it this morning on the health care company he has officially chosen just this morning as the target of s spac, stay tuned, a conversation you don't want to miss when "squawk" returns after this our retirement plan with voya gives us confidence. they help us with achievable steps along the way...

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coming p up billionaire veorinst, barry, you're watching skoks and this is cnbc

welcome back to "squawk box" this morning billionaire investor, barry sternlicht announcing just this morning that his special purpose acquisition company spac is merging with cano health to take the health care provider public. joining us right now is barry sternlicht, chairman and ceo and dr. marleau ceo of cano health thank you for joining us barry, you have been looking for a target for quite some time explain how you landed here. >> well, good morning, andrew, and thanks i'm really excited to be here. i want to start by saying this is a really feel good company, a company with a great story and poignant story for our time. dr. marleau hernandez is a cuban immigrant, came to the country when he was 8 years old, didn't speak english. he actually went to medical

school and during medical school started his first clinic taking care of the people in his community that were poor, under served and had no access to great health care, and he built that into cano health, in 2019, the fastest growing health care company in the united states it was under the radar because it wasn't backed from the big vc firms. humana bought a 5% share in the company. you can see it's one of the largest players in the country in the most important growing market of the health care market which is medicare advantage so and also i would -- >> barry >> yep, sorry. >> we normally think of you as a real estate investor, so how did you event get interested in this >> i said our spac, which launched in may, so it's been about as i sasix months wasn't o do real estate and i wasn't going to compete with my funds and i wanted to invest in something that wasn't sensitive

to the economic cycle that wasn't impacted by rising interest rates, impacted by trade wars or currency crises and that leads you to health care i actually called a friend of mine and a company i invested in, devoted health care, a fast growing insurance company and i ran by him a bunch of different names in health care when i got to cano, he said, stop, that's a great company if you can do something with them, you should do to and we sought out marleau, dr. hernandez and learned more about the company. that got us excited. when i was 35, i started star board hotels, grew it to 20 billion with the largest hotel company in the world measured by cash flow in four years. marleau is 35, too, actually eleven years into his career at cano, but he has an opportunity to build a bigger company faster than i did hopefully i can mentor him and help him along the way i'm excited to join the board. i would like you to hear from him about this company >> thank you, barry.

i was just going to say -- go ahead. >> yeah, no, truly an honor to work with barry, and thank you, andrew, for this opportunity so excited to tell you about cano health. we're a population health company. it's what we do. we deliver on the elusive triple aim of increasing health care quality, lower costing with great experience through our own medical centers, affiliated centers, we're an end-to-end population health solution and we've got the results to prove it, not only best in class quality scores and lower utilization, but also, you know, we have a lower mortality rate, three years in a row one of the few companies in the country publishing that, and specifically during covid, we were able to reduce mortality by 60%. remdesivir doesn't yet, you know, have proven ability to lower mortality, cano health does, and we're going to be publishing those results in over

30,000 patients. it's not because we're using a better drug or we have a better surgical treatment or better hospitals, no, it's because we're doing the more basic stuff better we're coordinating care, we're engaging with our patients, we have a passion for what we do. we're reflecting the communities we serve, which are typically the underserved. 30 years ago, i was a kid in cuba, didn't have freedom, didn't have hope but my parents worked hard, were able to get me out of there i'm living the american dream, and we have a responsibility to give back and how proud are we, a company of immigrants, of those with ships on our shoulders that want to do good for the community and the market rewards that, for us to make such an impact in u.s. health care, and that's why i'm excited partnering with barry, and joe and the rest of the team. >> doctor, just help us on this, because you know, investors this morning are going to look at this company, they're going to try to find a comp, a comparable company to look at to look at the multiples on revenue and profit i know the company, i don't

believe, is profitable yet talk to us about the path to profitability, what that looks like, what the revenue picture growth looks like and how much money it's g going to cost, how much debt you may have to take on to fuel that growth. >> andrew, i think that's just it, we've always been profitable we have always funded our own operations, ten years in, when i founded the company, the only thing i had to my name was student debt, and so it needed to work. we've always been able to make ends meet, while providing awesome care today we're north of $80 million of ebita so, you know, that is a great differentia differentiate tor for us, when you take a look at other comparables in the mashlgrket we're putting $5 million in the balance sheet, not to fund operations, it's to fund growth and that's what we're excited about. we have been driving 75% in terms of revenue growth rate,

100% in terms of membership growth rate, and we are looking to generate about 1.5 billion in revenues as it regards to 2021, and we're going to be very profitable as we always have. >> doctor, can you explain one thing to us -- go ahead, barry. >> i was going to say there is a comp called oak street health care, and they're actually trading at three times the equity value of cano but we're bigger, actually much more profitable. they lose money, we make money we have more members we're in more markets. actually they're in two more markets than we are, but we have more centers we have 71 centers they have 54 there is a comp. that's one of the reasons we chose to do cano we thought they had a great path in front of it the other use of proceeds, besides 5 million in cash is paying off $400 million of debt. the cane will have no net debt and cash flow positive from the start. it will depend on how fast we

grow we can use the stock to grow i think this company has a large runway and a huge market in front of it. >> and doctor, we have been talking about the spac frenzy and this trend for quite some time can you explain why you wanted to pursue a spac instead of going public, and do you think you would have otherwise >> first and foremost, credit goes to barry and working with somebody like them is truly an honor and privilege. going the traditional route will take us a bit longer we wouldn't be able to select out our investor base as we have, and we've got some great companies like fidelity, and block rock and third point and maverick, and capital and others i'm talking about issue you know, long runway types of companies, and individuals who believe in what we're doing. our results are real on the quality. we're seeing it in the patients, our nps is 70. we're growing at a significant pace in an enormous market that is growing by a billion dollars

a week we're projected in 2021 to grow at a million dollars a day in terms of revenue, and so what we were focused on is, you know, we've got a great opportunity now, tons of white space, tons of fragmentation, and we needed a great partner, a great investor base. we've got a great differentiator in terms of our core competencies in being able to build, buy and manage, and we're doing it throughout the country. and the country truly needs it, and we're revitalizing communities in the process because if a patient is able to be healthy they can go to work if they can go to work, they can pay their bills, and the opposite happens when they can't, and that results not only in parnliching them and their families and opportunities, and property values, and when we're going into the underserved communities, the by-product of great health care is the social and economic inequality that is in many parts throughout the

country starts to improve and we're very honored to have this opportunity to be here with you today. >> hey, barry, you know, one of the things we always ask about is the investing side of this and then the fee side of this. i see you're putting $50 million the pipe walk through the fee structure you raised $400 million for jaws, traditionally the sponsor takes 20% of that. that would be $80 million. are you taking the $80 million out, putting $50 million in, meaning you're up already $30 million? explain how the fee structure works and the investment structure. >> the thing i really would like you to focus on is this is a win, win, win. by doing a spac, the companies if we can keep our proceeds can raise almost $2 billion, about a billion and a half is staying in the enterprise so there is a selling shareholder from management led

by marlow, we thought that was very reasonable. and for me, you know, this is my own money. this isn't a fund. i'm investing a huge commitment from me because i actually cannot sell my stock and i think my partners don't want to sell their stock. that's net new capital and we're not selling anything, it is not a wash with what the spac sponsor gets in these deals. we did raise 69, upsized twice our filing into the shoe so i think we wanted a big company and we wanted a company that would be bigger in five years and, again, that was not sensitive to economic cycles i think we're very pleased i think this is a win, win, win for everyone mostly i'm excited because this is a great company serving a great market and american feel good story and one thing i -- when we first met, i said i love what you do, winning -- doing well and winning at the same time and he's so passionate about serving the community, he serves 70% of his clients latino

average age 73 one more thing, joe, how many times do you go to the doctor a year your general practitioner, not your dentist >> hopefully once. >> so the average person goes 20 times a year and that's why the results are so good. the many ed cal loss ratio is 6 61%. that's why the covid results are so g they'ood. you'll cry when you go to their centers. such a feel good moment. i think it is a great thing. i love investing, whether it succeeds or not, i want to be associated with this company it is the best part of many eam. >> gentlemen, thank you. we look forward to following your progress and talking to both of you again very, very soon thanks >> thank you >> really appreciate it. >> my brother is a doctor,

andrew, i send him -- i take pictures, what is this i take a picture of something here, he goes, that's an age spot thank you. anyway, coming up, jim cramer's first take on the trading day ahead. and what you need to watch ahead of the market open i hope that's all it is. how do you know anymore? we should all go to the doctor it's been hard we have excuses. the futures right now down about 207 points stay tuned you're watching "squawk x"n bc cnbo o

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let's get over to cnbc headquarters, jim cramer is standing by. beginning of the week, we saw everybody running from the stay at home stocks, now everybody is rushing back in. is that the fastest rotation in history. >> yes, that i've seen i think that we were value oriented how many guys came on this is time toswitch to value they're wrong instantly and wrong overnight. it is interesting, i heard jim paulsen speak this morning, david kostin coming on, mike wilson, they all say one thing, everybody is so negative, it is time to be positive.

if everybody says that everybody is negative but then come and be positive, i don't know, i think there is too many people that are positive i think you let it come in a little i listen to dr. gottlieb dr. gottlieb made me feel like what ami doing shouldn't we be just be thinking about what happens when all these businesses close except for pfizer and -- >> i thought mike wilson was good today he still thinks we're in this bull market, but we could have a lot of rough sledding before we come out the other side of this. markets look forward, they're looking six, nine months down the road you could have a lot of damage that is done. >> what happens coming back in, 250,000 people got it last night. 300,000. what happens not like we have a government in washington that says we must take action -- we're in transition in washington meaning that the president doesn't want to go anywhere and there is a vice president, name is ron klain, very good. i would love to see ron klain

talk he's not owned by anybody. i feel like that right now we're -- every morning i come in, it is like, okay, 140, looking at david, hey, david, 6 1 160, hey, 200,000. there is a level that is not good not good meaning that we're -- >> 144,000, it was only the beginning of this month i think november 4th we saw any amount of cases over 100,000. now eight days in a row of over 100,000. >> remember five cases and mike pence felt we were done. just trying to -- >> i didn't see the clip. >> i think we can't -- we have gotten inured to numbers going up there is -- >> it is not just the cases it the hospitalizations that number is going up too.

>> there is no icu, what are we, "mash," mobile surgical units, i don't know i like dr. gottlieb. >> we'll see you great having you here. >> used to smile he never smiles anymore. >> it is rough news. >> exactly right >> we'll see you in a couple of minutes, jim, thank you. >> all right >> one last check on the markets before we go for the day we are not down 200 at this point. we're down 173 now as you can see on the dow. the nasdaq is -- it is like nine, ten points last time we looked up 29 points as you can see right now in the session the s&p down about 9 points. a quick look at oil, that's always something to watch. when you worry about economic activity, renewed closures, whatever, consumer behavior, it is above $40 at least at this point. and then we usually look at the

bond -- ten-year, take a quick look at the ten-year, there is the energy index, s&p. anyway, we are about done here again, we have ten seconds, anyone got anything big, andrew, becky? >> have a good day. >> see you tomorrow. watch tomorrow join us. "squawk on the street" is up now. >> good thursday morning welcome to "squawk on the street." i'm carl quintanilla with jim cramer and david faber that rotation interruption continues with new covid cases in the u.s. topping 143,000. 62,000 in hospitals. but encouraging headlines on vaccines as dr. fauci says this won't be, quote, a pandemic. road map begins with the covid wave cases soar 1500 new deaths and the growing risks for stocks in the economy. >> plus, we are still talking about the race for the cure.