we'll show you you what they reveal about their phase two trial. and new york public school kids are staying home today after the surge in cases forced a shutdown this is thursday, november 19, 2020, and "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ come and get your love, come and get your love ♪ good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. welcome back >> nice to see you you know what, in this someone, it doesn't feel that i was -- at least for me, that far away because i'm sitting in the same seat all over again. >> exactly here we go again in fact let's check out what is happening with the markets you will see that morning there is a bit of a pullback for the futures and this comes after two

down days for the markets. right now s&p down by about 11, dow by 96, nasdaq off by about 47 we were so close to you dow 30,000 earlier in the week, but that seems to be slipping away a little bit 29,400 and change is where the dow is right now and again, down two days in a row, down again this morning and after yesterday's declines, all three of the major averages are in negative territory for the week a lot of things happening with covid and we'll talk more about that in a moment, but some of those concerns creeping back into what you see in the markets. if you are looking at the treasury market, the yield on the ten year right now is sitting just at about 0.852% and the vix also spiking yesterday, probably a little bit on concerns about what happens as we go back into some of the lockdowns. >> the see-saw of good and bad news on covid. and we'll give you a bit of good

news that happened overnight in the vaccine wars developed by the university of oxford and astrazeneca found to be safe. and the good news is it triggers immune response from all adults according to preliminary findings of a peer he reviewed phase two trial. phase three trials are already under way. that news coming a day after the u.s. reached a total though, this is the other part of it, 250,000 covid deaths and trying to make sense of that it is funny, i don't want to say funny, but typically when we've had great news about the vaccine, the markets have moved. but the question is whether all of that is thouf built into -- all the good possible news is already built in i don't know >> we got close to 30,000, so we'll see. he'll s we'll see what we can hold we did the pfizer news yesterday

and, you know, in thinking about it, it is like we have to go through the advisory panel, they have to schedule that, and then they have to vote on that pd and then the full fda. but you read the journal and it is like they are doing it within days so it might be available in an expedited manner, you know, by the end of this year, which for frontline workers and w40e6r there is enough supply for right at the very beginning, that is near term. that is near term. and i think that there has been a shift a little bit just in the last couple weeks about -- and there was an election -- about whether it is being rushed, whether you would feel safe, whether there is political pressure, whether this is a good vaccine. yesterday, andrew, we were saying -- i don't know, a lot of people were tweeting that they are readied to take the pfizer vaccine on the 737 max so they are ready to -- a lot of people, we were looking at both those stories and both of those things were feeling better

and obviously the 737 max going to be a lot of flights before all of us and the whole country feels like, yeah, i'm putting my family on there. but you get a couple thousand flights under your belt or six months or a year, and i think that it is similar with -- we don't trust regulators, the faa, we don't know if they are in bed with boeing, the pressure about the vk vaccine but hopefully it will be done in a good manner and there will be a good outcome i'm hopeful that by the summer that we're all happy again >> i'm hopeful too but i want to tell you, the one thing that struck me during all these conversations during the deal book thing the past two days is the comment that dr. fauci made about requiring really an uptick of 75% of the country to have taken the vaccine before you would stop masking and social distancing. meaning that even those who are

vaccinated from a pin health perspective, because testimony still circulate until you get to that 75% threshold or higher, which i thought was actually a high higher threshold that i had even thought, and if that is the threshold, given some of the numbers that you see, one in three saying that they won't be take positioning the vaccine, sometimes it is even more than that, it becomes much more complicated. >> and we'll probably be at 30% already though you heard that we've been 15% effective >> i heard that. >> and then i think that consumer behavior, you won't have to mandate masks or social distancing that is going to be hard to overcome just in general >> in some places. >> i'll still feel weird >> not every country has learn the same lesson we have. >> i'm be drinking at home, i won't be saddling up to a bar

anytime soon >> some of us have gotten used to that and like it. >> i think in other parts of the world, people wear masks long after they needed them so they're not that bad. you get a nice one-- >> at least a path toward normal life the concern now kind of sterns turns to the shutdowns and new york city becoming the latest in this, shutting down in-person education starting today. this is a huge issue >> people stuck at home with their kids people not able to go to work if you don't have child care. >> right and that is a very big economic issue. again, new york city shut down in-person education starting

today. [ abo >> oh, my turn >> and it was closed after a 3% positivity rate. schools had been open, but now roughly 300,000 students will have to remote learn private schools weren't included in this order, but the private schools have kind of taken their own measures and steps, been heavily testing there. this is met by backlash by some parents and city council members that argue that schools shouldn't be closed while indoor dining and gyms remain open. and that is echoed by scott gottlieb be. this is an economic issue because of the number of parenty on this for being able to go to work, this is the only way that they can do that and in the meantime kentucky governor beshear became the first governor to announce a statewide school closure he ordered all public and private schools to close

starting monday with most staying closed until january getting through theholidays. thanksgiving and christmas, all of the end of the year holidays, it is a big concern because if people go out and celebrate are, the officials know what happens in those scenarios that is where this is continuing to spread. coronavirus cases at gatherings and homes. the state's positivity rate in kentucky topping 9% using a seven day average and these are the huge questions that we're faced with once again, how do you control the vie rurks try to contain it until we get to those advantage cincinnasi vaccinations, without doing incredible economic damage and this is where once again it is time for the congress to step up and deal with the responsibilities that they should be dealing with this is like abdication of duty at this point. right now the nation needs a bridge to get through to the time when the track svaccinatioe

readily available, you need to be helping the small businesses and the schools and americans unemployed and right now there is crickets. >> a lot of argue, about votes and transitions and everything else >> and looking towards georgia >> and in terms of school, my kids used to -- like a snow day, it would be the great either thing in the world but theyare so tired of this it is weird to see, how much they have want to go back to school when the weatherman would be wrong and it would be a couple flakes, i want to say you said that we would have a snow day. but now you'd give anything to never have another snow day. so it is very tough. take your pick on who is affected stop negative things about this.

didfood lines in texas just miamis and miles and miles. >> and think about who it will look like two or three months from how >> make it stop. this is 23406. feels like march still anyway, i'll move on here. the nfl has ordered all of its teams to operate under stricter level of protocols beginning saturday that means mandatory masks at all times in team facilities meetings held virtually. no group dining. and capacity limits in locker rooms. at times, most teams had to adopt the stricter protocols in response to outbreaks that individually we've seen the teams have and speaking of outbreaks, the nfl network reports that much of the raiders starting defense was

placed on the covid-19 quarantine list because of high risk close contacts. players who test negative can play against the chiefs on nbc got to figure out who is playing and who is not thald normal that would normally be a real big rivalry obviously. anyway coming up on the other side of this break, jpmorgan's jamie dimon making news at the deal book conference, we'll show you what he said about business travel and bringing other highlights from the headlines. he echoed some of becky's thoughts about what needs to happen in washington and we'll talk about all of that as we head to a break though, check out shares of sonos, soaring after the company's earnings of up 33 cents beating estimates. revenue also beat expectations and the company's forecast for growth in 2021 better than expected i feel like we're forgetting something.

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as we menktsze ementioned, bill pre-dinktsed that 50% of business travel could go away. but jamie dimon shared a different viewpoint. >> there is nothing like personal relationships and seeing people and sharing ideas. i do think that 30% is probably a good number of less seats that you will need in office buildings because people will be rotating, working from home, full-time, part-time okay, that is fine that is an adjustment. not definivastatingdevastating business business travel will be less, but it will drop and then people start to grow again but like me, i have to go into see my clients and my leadership, everywhere around the world, i'm going to travel just as much >> i also spoke about this same issue with alphabet and google chief financial office, google told employees they are not required to return to a google campus until next summer

>> we haven't changed the june 2021 date. and as i said, it is voluntary work from home through that period of time from all of the internal work we've done, there is a range of what people are hoping for in this new normal. and our expectation on return to office, which is frankly substantially more complicated than moving everyone to home is thathe wiwe'll end up in a hybrd work environment >> and many of us know the notion of stooczoom fatigue and i spoke with epic games founder, creator of fortnite and asked him about how he thinks about the way people are lifing their lives and how it may yi involve in an almost simulated world. >> it is okay to not travel and spend a lot of time talking to people on zoom or communicating with them on fortnite.

and it is not like you playing this game is a solitary experience, it is you and your friends doing something together like my generation would go in the worlds building real fort forts and now it is virtual. >> and i was joined by -- we call him the king, lebron james, founder of more than a vote, recruiting tens of thousands of volunteers to be poll workers. and ultimately getting a lot more people to vote who never voted before in that election. by the way, including his mother who at 52 years old voted for the very first time and i asked what it was like to put himself out there. >> you've seen with a lot of my mantra, i'm more than an athlete. but that is something that true to where i am.

it wasn't that we made it up and i started to live behind it. i was that person way before we started to talk about more than an athlete we're all more than what the title that we're given with our job space. >> it was an eye-opening couple of days with some really, really interesting people you can watch replays of this stuff online and hopefully we'll get to do it next year but all in person. that is all we got, becks. >> andrew, i love lebron james and i love what he has done from a charitable perspective he has i believe know straighted in-though straighted for where he is giving back and creating a community, it reminds me a lot of what they have done in harlem with making sure that it is not about having a school where you have kid, it is making sure that you have an entire community to suchlt t

support the families, bikes and different things, to make sure that you are giving these kids a reeld chan real chance and he does it because of where he came from. so i think it is an amazing story. >> he is -- i think of him as an amazing stoir andry and i think more than a vote program, hundreds of thousands of people have had an opportunity to vote for the very first time this year, he did make news yesterday, they are moving their effort to georgia right now. and will be trying to open up as many sports arenas and plays, recruit poll workers and the like so that as many people in the state of georgia during the very important senate runoff come january can participant in our democracy. so it is an important effort across the board >> kudos on an amazing lineup.

we missed you, but it was for a good cause and it was great watching the headlines condition grat lagscongratulati. >> thank you and when we come back, a new report from carla harris, she will give us a view of what is happening on the front lines right now as we head to a break, here is a look at the pre-market gainers in the s&p 500. l brands surge iing. it saw significant improvement in sales at victoria secret. before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new?

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morgan stanley out with its survey and report this morning and it high lights the funding gap for female and multicultural entrepreneurs. and also offers pathways to try to diversify and max gimize portfolios dollar are clara harris is joining us. good to see you. obviously a lot has happened over this last year. when you think of 2020 and all of the issues that have been thrown our way, everything from the pandemic to "black lives matter" to, you know, people kind of getting out there and seeing a very different world. how has that played out in the vc world >> good morning, becky great to see you i'll tell you, despite how difficult this year has been, there are a few bright spots and

i would say one of the biggest ones that we talk about in the report is that because of the "black lives matter" movement, 61% of the vmptcs have said tha they are more aware of the funding gap and it has motivated them to think more critically about it and 75% have now said that it is possible to have a portfolio that promotes female entrepreneurs. and if you go back 10 or 15 years ago in the esg space, the big debate is can you really do well and do good at the same time and it took us a decade before people now realize that that is a great space to invest in and you can do quite well by doing good and here it is the same thing this sta that started to happen and so a lot of bright spots out of the survey for sure

>> and it is one thing to say that you think that this is something to be done, but another to put your money where the mouth is have the vc funds started putting more money in those directions >> fair point. we've started to see a slight increase of the number of folks that said that they have hired more people of color and women on their team which you know was part of our prescriptive advice. and there is also a slight increase in the folks that have actually invested in the multi cultural and female entrepreneurs but more importantly, there is a more significant jump from 43% to 59% that say that they are looking at the performance of those companies that are founded by multicultural or females and they have found that they have returned better performance or at a minimum are on par with the rest of their portfolio. because i said if you can see the data and tuck about it,

thont w those who don't get it about hang the data. and so it is clearly outscoring. >> and what i've heard is that small businesses, entrepreneurs who are either run by women or minority based founded, have actually struggle the quite a bit more during this pandemic. is that what you have seen request with the firms you have helped get funding >> it has been a very different story with most of the firms that we have funded through the mult multicultur multicultural. and there is carrage is carnage small business community and they depend on foot traffic and consumers. and when you have a shelter in place protocol, people can't get out, that does put a lot of pressure on these businesses and many will close, no yquestion about that but the companies that we are focused on are those that are

tech enabled and we have seen the resilience of the entrepreneurs and many of these companies have piflted von benefited, especially in the ed tech space, 000 those in the health care space, so i would say that we have again seen the theme underscored about the resilience of the multi cultural and female entrepreneurs they have had to work harder to get there and i would add that the resiltience muscle is quite strong >> how dire are things in terms of what you have seen in the small business world is this i know you have access to a lot of these people we made it through one wave in the pandemic we're facing a pretty steep wave right now. and this time there is not ppe funding at least not at the ready. >> you're right. and i was listen ing to your conversation earlier no question that if we don't get some kind of help to small

businesses over the next couple businesses, it will be tough you saw a number make it through because of the stimulus package before and we finally started opening, but in ynow given what happening the last few weeks, if there is not some kind of rescue, it will be quite difficult. and i see it as i go around new york city and montclair, new jersey there are a lot of businesses boarded up and there are a lot of businesses reaching out to consumers saying anything that you can do to help us. and many of us have done our part during this pandemic to try to actually go by the bagel shop or the peelt pizza place to try to support them as they hold on >> carla, thank you. really great to see you. we look forward to another check up in soon >> same here thanks so much

coming up, more about the new covid restrictions and impact on businesses and online grocer fresh direct being a acquired by the dutch owner of stop and shop they will own a majority stake while pe firm centerbridge partners will buy 20%. stop laughing, becky and as we head to break, a look at the s&p winners and losers. i made a business out of my passion. i mean, who doesn't love obsessing over network security? all our techs are pros. they know exactly which parking lots have the strongest signal.

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i decided that i wanted to go for electrical engineering and you need to go to college for that. if i didn't have internet in the home i would have to give up more time with my kids. which is the main reason i left the military. everybody wants more for their kids, but i feel like with my kids, they measurably get more than i ever got. and i get to do that.

i get to provide that for them. welcome back let's show you where must equity futures stand. they are under pressure this morning after being under a lot of pressure -- the markets i should say yesterday

joe. >> and as the covid-19 surge continues, companies across the country glaprapple with the restrictions on their businesses and here is what ceos and board members are thinking mark weinberger is on the boards of johnson and johnson, met life i started reading some of your comments i guess i hadn't thought it through all the way. you think some corporations might mandate the vaccine as a requirement to come back to work that 2red treads on a lot of interesting ethical issues >> actually, i don't think that most employers will mandate a vaccine. >> but you posed the question that i hadn't even thought about

there are times that you can't smoke being and get health care, i mean there are certain times where the line seems to be crossed from personal freedom to what you go to keyou do to deep. >> yeah, it wouldn't be out of the question and some industries, perhaps health care or where there is, you know, a public need for extra precaution that it could be mandated. but generally think speaking, in-it would be hard to mandate they don't mandate 234r5flu sho. i think that they will encourage and talk about the benefits and the early results of the two now coming maybe into the third stage of astrazeneca last night. and many other vaccines that are out there. the efficacy is so great, the brisk so low so far, business s has a huge role to play.

but mandating creates a lot of labels and not what we're used to >> so as board member, i don't think that you can speak to j & j's corporate strategy necessarily. i mean, i hope we have these problems to worry about. andrew, you have a question? >> what i would add to the conversation in part because i had this very difficult with bill gates and so many others in the last two days about mandating from corporations, why you don't think that the business round table or the new york city part nertd ship here in new york city or other places should decide almost as a group to mandate it in large part because if you leave in trying to build confidence in the system, right, if we're trying to build the economy back as quickly as possible, the only reason that will happen is if as

many take this -- as you can imagine, many industries, even many more than you said, that do require -- there are kids not allowed to go to certain schools if they don't have different shots, different boosters. in certain places you can't get on an airplane to go to certain countries unless you have proof that you actually have taken certain shots. so i understand the personal freedom argument, no question, but if we're trying to get the economy back up and running from an economic efficiency perspective, you would think that every company should be trying to do something like this no >> well, andrew, again, i think the business community will get behind encouraging, if a i will is dating, maybe subsidizing everyone to take vaccines. it is in everyone's interests that they do it. but to come out and mandate it beyond where the government has gone and to mandate that

everybody, maybe they have disabilities, maybe they have religious beliefs, it will be really hard for the business to step in and start saying we'll regulate you all on taking a vaccine. i think what you will see is a real enmecouragement working hopefully with the government, but it is rare that business will mandate something, other than as you say in those areas in school, yes, for obvious reasons mandate vaccines before students are allowed to go generally. and in some industries -- >> mark, what are you telling clients. you still have a lot of conversations i know and sit on all these boards does the tax implications of the election, are they more muted than we thought beforehand what is going to happen starting

when we see january 20th >> obviously the georgia election is crucial. but i happen to be the assistant secretary of treasury and the last time we had a 50/50 senate, it was back in 2001 under president obama. and so if the two senate seats were to go democrat, which is certainly possible, my true not likely, but possible, and they control the senate, they are going to be able to get certain things done. we got the major tax bill through early on in the first year in the bush administration. but it would have to be under the budget reconciliation rules. so the 50/50 slt wouldnenate wo enough you'd have to use the 60 vote. we got 12 democrats to join us with and came up with a tax cut, not a tax increase, a lot easier to do. but really hard to do major initiatives even at 50/50.

there is talk about changing the fill busine filibuster rule, but that is unclear. if the republicans retain one of those seats in georgia, it will be a lot harder for major tax increases at least of the magnitude that president barack obama put forwajrs biden put fon the campaign he will get his appointment thes in the senate, he won't want a ver controversial day one initiative but a lot of these tax increases are tied to spending programs. so there could be bipartisan infrastructure bill or bipartisan certain relief covid relief bill which i would expect in 2001, we did come together around 9/11 and had massive bipartisan ship. if we see those spending bills come forward, they may have tax provisions in them, which could be some tax increases to pay for some spending and the votes will be bought off by on the spending

side so we could see tax changes for sure but not of the making any tuld in what we saw in president-elect biden's proposals. >> would you foresee the gop or republicans bargaining with the corporate tax rate, and in your view, do you think that 21 went too far, is 25 okay, 28, whatever, or do you think that that was a good level and has it been helpful to rpgs coulds? you know, you can't punt on this you may not know about the vaccine, but you know something about accounting, i hope is 21 okay >> yeah, 21 is the right area because remember, 21 is the corporate rate at the federal level, you add in the state taxes, around 24.5 or so and that is about the average. and in addition, remember they took away a lot of tax deduction and incentives, added other ones in 2017. you know, joe, remember, we saw you a massive increase in capex

expenditu expenditures, increase in hiring, we saw wage increases, payments to pay down pensions, we saw share buybacks and other things that we could have a whole discussion about for sure. but the economy was on a great trajectory i will admit it got stalled when we got to the china tariffs and everything and the capex slowed down but could you imagine today if businesses had a higher tax rate and was dealing with all the covid of covid-19 issues i think it would be a bad idea for go back to the taxes and have higher growth next year >> i hope someone asks you i asked you and you told uts. but maybe somebody in government will ask you thank you, mark, time will tell. when is that election?

>> january 5 >> you're right. oh, god. you know, i'm elected out. but we got that one to do. >> at least you're not in georgia. think about that >> that's right. all right, thank you >> and i think that we are all elected out. when we come back, we'll get you up to speed on the markets as a bumpy week continues and later, jay clayton in his first interview since announcing that he will be stepping down at the end of the year. ♪ may your holidays glow bright and all your dreams take flight. visit your local mercedes-benz dealer today for exceptional lease and financing offers at the mercedes-benz winter event.

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. welcome back payments come affirm filing knew paperwork to go public under afrm, the company founded and led by paypal's co-founder offering online installment loans. it partners with shopify earlier in year. affirm offers services to 65 o00 merchants including peloton, expedia and walmart. it charges merchant as fee to help make the sale peloton sales accounted for around 30% of its revenue for the last few quarters. we'll watch that company meantime, when we come back,

markets were weak into yesterday's close and in the red again this morning we'll break it all down if you

welcome back to "squawk box" this morning, markets closing at record lows. joining us investment partner senior managing director, cnbc contributor, his company vertis launching an etf based on his momentum index we want to talk about that in just a moment. we'll start with what you're seeing in the markets right now, joe. you know, it's funny we've had this remarkable run up and the question is are we coming down now?

>> good morning, andrew. well, unfortunately, this is the type of market behavior that will have fiscal policy makers actually really act upon what their responsibility is. you know, if they want to study the great depression and see what absence of a response looks like for the capital markets, then they'll understand what they're doing here it's the equivalency think about making the drive through the desert towards las vegas. you're in the vehicle, comfortably headed that way and you finally see las vegas. the vaccines are in front of you. all of a sudden the car stops and fiscal policy makers say get out and walk i just don't understand what we're doing. we need to build a bridge. it has to come in the form of more lending programs. it has to come in the form of more support for small businesses and they need to act, and that's what markets right now are trading on.

>> let me just ask you do you think what was baked in to the markets or at least this rise was that the government was going to do something and absent them doing something, you're going to see a sell off. if you look at what even a bill ackman, the heads that he recently put on, you know, masa son saying he has $80 billion in cash, he's worried about a potential crisis jamie diamond doesn't think a financial crisis is coming how dependent is it on simply washington policy? >> i don't think a financial crisis is coming at all. i think the positive appreciation has been slowed by two things number one, i think there was a little bit of complacency as it relates to the resurgence of virus. i heard becky talking about this before we don't need restrictions from

states and local municipalities. we're adjusting our behavior based on this resurgence already, and i think there was a little bit of a low expectation towards that so we're seeing a rise there and unfortunately it's not being met with the type of response that we responded with in q2 that allowed mash allowed markets to appreciate significantly. this is halting the appreciation, and i think at some point we'll get back to the positive trend for risk assets rightfully so because the liquidity that's in the system is supporting all risk assets. >> and this is maybe not a markets question but why from a behavioral science perspective do you think that people are making the right decisions without being told to make the right decisions because if the numbers would not suggest that >> well, i think that collectively the private sector

and individuals hold a far greater intellect, respect and understanding for not only each other but the health care circumstance i know we like to report about a lot of the behavior that certainly is not respecting this virus, but i suspect there is a tremendous amount of positive behavior that is respecting it and accordingly distancing and doing the right measures >> we'll grae agree to disagreen that, but tell me about where you stand on this new etf and how it works >> so andrew, i introduced what i believe is a modern day approach in the form of an index. we heard you say the momentum index. there's another critical word called quality momentum, and it really offers a compelling alternative, not a solution to the growth versus value debate

this is kind of the middle lane, this is right down the strait. it's narrowing it down to 250 based on technical trends, ie momentum, and it's further narrowing that list by grading quality, three conditions, return on equity, debt-to-equity annualized sales growth over the last three years ultimately the attempt here is to create a better index for investors, and i truly believe, providing high conviction investment opportunities offers a solution for investors and the time has come to offer investors better index products.

i think we have been deficient in that capacity >> joe, we appreciate it we should talk more about momentum the next time you're on because it's an interesting issue, and this is a fascinating etf, and we look forward to its progress and your success. >> thank you, andrew >> becky >> quartersly numbers out frly macy's, revenue did beat estimates. digital sales jump 27% from a year ago, the company's chairman, jeff ganett saying three things, cost discipline, discipline cost management that they were dealing with, execution and then an early start to the holiday shopping season we've got more on retail earnings still tcoo me that stock is down by 8% we'll talk more about that "squawk box" will be right back.

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the market's recent rally reversing course futures are lower coming off back-to-back declines for the markets. breaking overnight, more promising data in the race for a vaccine. and protecting those most vulnerable to covid-19 we've got the details straight ahead. also, former etna ceo mark

berlini will be our guest. election friction. david boyar joins us to talk about the president's legal challenges as the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, welcome back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc i'm andrew ross sorkin along with becky quick and joe kernen. take a look at u.s. equity futures this morning because they're under pressure again after a tough day yesterday. dow looks like it would open down 35 points right now it's got in marginally better. s&p 500 looking to open down right now just 2 points, joe. >> thanks, andrew. a grim milestone, covid deaths in the u.s. surpassing 250,000 according to johns hopkins 50,000 deaths linked to the

virus in the past 60 days. meg tirrell joins us now with more on where things stand between the battle and virus, hey, meg. >> the numbers are just staggering the 7-day average of new daily cases in the u.s., more than 150,000. it's up 25% week over week yesterday we recorded 163,000 new cases. people in the hospital up to 79,000 americans hospitalized with covid that of course is higher than either of the prior two peaks. deaths are also increasing we recorded 1,869 deaths yesterday. the 7-day average more than 1,200, and that's higher than the peak we saw over the summer. we're now recording a number of daily deaths that is as high as it was back in may, and let's look at the trajectory of case growth over the last 14 days two states, hawaii and north dakota had less than 20% growth in their cases in the last 14 days that does not mean north dakota is doing well, though, guys. if you look at the numbers of cases these states are recording on a per capita basis.

north dakota among the highest in the country still at more than 1,600 cases per million people you're also seeing tremendously higher numbers in states like kansas and new mexico. if we drill down to the city level, the metro area seeing the fastest case growth. you're looking at places like pueblo, colorado senior case numbers double in eleven days, according to ever core, cities across michigan, minnesota, and indiana everywhere is growing fast, the midwest still seeing the fastest growth let's take a quick look at europe, guys we are seeing progress there in terms of cases, particularly at france look at the blue line. they have come down dramatically they are under a lock down sta start that started at the end of october. some urging the government to lift the lock down it is set to stay in place until december mid stage data on the astrazeneca oxford vaccine saying that it shows the same immune response in older adult

as younger participants, which is good news appears to be safe across age groups this is mid stage study results. we don't have the phase 3 res t results, which show how well the vaccine protects against the disease. we should see those in studies outside the u.s. >> is this like the j and j or how does this one work >> it's like the j and j one, except it's an adenovirus from a chimpanzee it uses a virus to ferry the material from the coronavirus to the body cells you make the spike protein, your body generates antibodies with the spike protein. >> with an adr. scott talks abon

epitope. hopefully this works becky, you've got a question >> looking at the map you showed of the covid hot spots in the united states listing places that are kind of random leek terre haute, indiana, and rochester in minnesota which is where the mayor clinic posted. did those pop out because they're overwhelming the health care systems there for some reason >> this is literally a list of the metro areas with case numbers above 5,000 that are seeing their case numbers double at the fastest pace. when you look at pueblo, they're doubling their case numbers every 11 days. the others, 14 days for muskie beg michigan, and 19 days for rochester and terre haute in indiana. you mentioned what's happening in rochester and the mayor clinic these health care outbreaks are scary. we need our health care workers. not only are they exhausted but they're getting infected this is a terrible thing to see.

>> yes all right. thanks, meg, and we should point out mark bertolini is our guest. we're going to ask him about the distribution and willingness to get vaccinated. those quarterly numbers out for macy's as we mentioned quickly. that retailer posting an adjusted los of $0.19 a share, smaller than the $0.79 loss. revenue did beat estimates and comp store sales fell by less than expected. digital sales up 27% from a year ago. that was the bright spot the stock is down by 3 1/4%. the company mentioned several things but obviously it was cost controls that really helped them out here the early start to holiday shopping before the quarter ended you had people gearing up and getting ready for that questions remain about will that last throughout the rest of the normal holiday shopping period anyway, stocks down by 3 1/4%.

decline of $0.29 to $8.70, and we're just getting started getting news from nasdaq, the exchange buying $2.75 billion in its bid to fight financial crimes nasdaq's ceo, edema friedman will join us after the break to talk about the news. before we head to the break, let's get a check on the markets this morning markets are indicated down after two down days at the close the dow futures off by about 50 points right now nasdaq futures down by 28. the s&p down by almost 4 "sawbo wl rht back. before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new?

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nasdaq this morning, as part of its larger goal of combatting financial crimes, nasdaq is buying verafin, a leading anticrime management solutions company for $2.75 billion in cash for more details, edeadena free. second only to what other acquisition that nasdaq made. >> in 2008, we bought omx, account market operator in the

nordex. >> >> at this point, software as a service, sass as part of nasdaq, you wanted to get into the business and expand and diversify, 21% in 2016 29% this year. this is going to accelerate your efforts towards half the company eventually and by 2025, being involved with this. >> in fact, at our investor day last week, we talked about the fact that our sass revenue is $440 million today, and now with verafin, we are looking at over $550 million that we're going into 2021 with and the fact that verafin is a technology trying to solve a big problem in the industry. the banks spend about $42 billion trying to combat financial crime and we, nasdaq, already provide technology in our surveillance business that really tries to root out market manipulation and insider trading and other nefarious activities

in the markets with the broker dealers, and verafin focuses on money laundering and fraud schemes that occur within the banks. going toward, we now have a chance to provide a comp hence ich sui -- comprehensive suite of solutions at a rate of 17% a year we're very excited about being able to be a real problem solver in the industry with verafin oops. >> and you could have a lot of banks as clients that weren't clients before, i can imagine, but what i got excited about was you see a lot of order flow, and you can see all kinds of stuff going on, but who knows what's really happening so from money laundering, there's patterns, i think, that can be evaluate through machine learning. >> that's correct. >> and it's all really sort of high-tech and, you know, i can't imagine the code that needs to be written, but with all of the input, the data that you have with all of these transactions, you could see patterns of money

laundering that wouldn't be apparent and there's a lot of money laundering that goes on. >> that's correct, and that's what verafin is terrific at. they have 2,000 banks they provide the solution to today across north america, and one of the great things about the u.s. is they allow data sharing across banks verafin is able to create a great network effects and understand network and behavior patterns they use machine learning to root out those patterns as do we in our surveillance business that's the next frontier of combatting financial crime is being able to use the big data that's available and in the markets and in the banks to be able to find changes of behavior and things that really are, you know, the behaviors that really underlie money laundering, fraud schemes, as well as market manipulation and other nefarious behavior. >> financial crimes, i think of that differently than money laundering there are other crimes that go

into the money that needs to be laundering, which is fascinating. you're talking about cartels, terrorist organizations. >> yeah. >> you're talking across the board, $2 trillion worth of money is laundered through the financial system annually, and we spend almost that much trying to stop it it's nutty >> yeah, i mean, first of all, the regulators have put the banks on the front lines drug traffics, child trafficking, as you said, cartels terrorist behaviors and the banks are really sitting there working so hard. they spend about $42 billion trying to address this issue and what verafin does is bring the best of technology to it they're a software as a service business th they provide weekly releases to their clients, to make sure they're staying up with the trends or patterns they're seeing, new functionality to offer the banks. they're better equipped on the front lines to be able to solve this problem. >> adena it's great to see you

this morning it's been way too long i just want to ask you while you're here about this trend toward spacs, we talked to another country going public what are the up sides and maybe the downsides too. >> it has been the year of the spacs. this year, we have had about 250 companies go public in general, including with spacs it's been a big year of the ipo and the spacs. now what happens is companies have a choice. they can do the traditional ipo route, direct listing or go public through a spac, and i think the reason spacs are interesting to the companies is for sellers they provide a specific and fixed price and the sellers can exit their position faster through a spac than a tradition that will ipo. that becomes somewhat appealing

to the sellers and the companies can come into the public markets in a different way they don't do a road show. they do an acquisition it's a different means by which they can tap the public market giving companies more choice today. >> adena, do you think the disclosure rules around spacs should be aligned more with what a traditional ipo would be, meaning an ipo, you can provide effectively backward looking information. a spac, you can provide lots of forward looking information, and i ask it because you see a lot more retail investors involved in spacs in part because of the excitement i wonder, two, three, four years ago from now, if you look at where the spacs land, meaning how successful those are relative to the ipo process, which is, i think, in fairness, a much harder process, you know, what kind of results from a performance perspective, people will see. >> i would say, andrew, first of all, we actually were just discussing what are the disclosure requirements for a

company going public through a spac versus an ipo, just to understand what are the nuanced differences. our view in general the document takes that a company has to provide to the s.e.c. is fairly similar, you know, they might put more forward-looking statements in the spac document because it's an acquisition. and so in essence, you're providing the investors a little bit more of a view of why did the acquisition vehicle value that company a certain way because you're looking at forward forecasts as well as backwards information. investors have a more broader view and understanding of the value because at the end of the day, the investors have to vote on whether or not they believe that this is the right acquisition for the spacs. so i think it's a little bit more, a slightly different type of information but i believe that investors have a full set of information that's available to them to make that determination. >> where do we stand with everyone coming back mack and i like it the way it is

right now. it's a big beautiful building. it's just the two of us. >> it would have been nice to be down there in the studio today, i have to say. >> it would have been. >> seriously, would you tell employees to take the vaccine or urge them, mandate them, testing on the way in, what's it going to look like, you know, in the next couple of months where this is my own personal question, what's going to happen >> we have given our employees a choice to work from home or work in the office up until june of next year, so i think it's important just to provide as much flexibility as you can. not every company has the freedom to do that but we provided as much flexibility as we can, and we would encourage our employees to consider vaccines that are becoming available i certainly am excited to take the vaccine when it becomes available. i think that we're hopeful that over the next several months we'll find all of us are in a safer situation, and we can bring our employees back together. >> becky, was that a stretch or

a question >> i think it sounded like you don't want andrew and i back in the studio with you. >> no, i don't think i was thinking -- i don't think i was saying that. i was more saying that it's a big beautiful building, and we just feel very -- do we not feel like that we kind of swagger in here, and no one can tell us what to do, and it's totally empty, and it's like our, you know, i don't know, you get used to things like that. you guys can come back it's up to mac, really >> we're excited to have all of you back in. >> he said just becky. andrew, i -- >> no, i didn't, andrew. >> i think that was joe playing ventriloquist. >> anyway, adena, and i ask you, you almost were going to -- is that far enough. that's not really far enough for you to sit on the set right now. we would be masked up and it's hard to hear this is better to do it remotely

so we can continue to do that. but thanks i was fascinated by the acquisition, actually, the idea that someone can write code to analyze all the movement of money, and say, you know, this doesn't look right to pick up on that stuff adena thanks, good luck. i'll take the vaccine. i might get two of them, in fact anyway, andrew come back, andrew. >> we should mention, we have some breaking news and it is very much speaking of spacs, literally crossing right now liberty media is the latest company to jump on the spac band wagon, announcing the formation of its own spac called liberty media acquisition corporation, and it says it intends to list on the nasdaq after a planned $500 million ipo in its search for an acquisition target, and a range of industries, media is on the list, digital media, music entertainment, communications, telecom and technology liberty media ceo greg maffei is

going to join us to talk about the latest stock this morning. amazon moving into the pharmacy business, sending shock waves through the sector will the tech giant take the health care sector by storm. jon fortt joins us with both sides of the argument this week, "on the other hand," that famed segment. we'll see him in a minute. stocks spiking on tuesday but has come down, and is now flat for the week "squawk box" returns right after this time now for today's aflac trivia question. what bankrupt airline's logo was featured on the vehicles in the vie 2001, a space odyssey. the answer when cnbc's "squawk box" continues c! now tell me, what does aflac do? aflac pays you money directly to help with unexpected medical bills. and is aflac health insurance?

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now the answer to today's

aflac trivia question. what bankrupt airline's logo was featured on vehicles in the movie "2001: a space odyssey," the answer, pan am >> i'm sorry dave, i'm afraid i can't do that. welcome back to "squawk box. amazon announcing a very big move into the pharmacy business. it sent shock waves through the industry is the tech giant going to take the health care storm or break it that's the question of the morning, and jon fortt is here with answers in on the other hand. >> well, andrew, this is a smart move for amazon, but it's terrible for retail and health overall. amazon is moving in with nice delivery convenience and it's going to take the legs out from independent drug stores that need pharmacy foot traffic to drive sales of other things. so what, well the pandemic has slammed mainstream businesses. this is one more blow.

i can't tell amazon not to do it it's not illegal let's talk about the consequences when tech overlords move into industries like this what gets uprooted from physical spaces and sometimes replaced with nothing first it was books, electronics, health care books. now medicine it doesn't seem healthy for local businesses, andrew. >> you are saying that we would be better if amazon stayed out of this market >> well, on the other hand, maybe there's more up side to amazon pharmacy than downside. to start with, two out of every three pharmacies these days is a chain. it's not like amazon is beating up on the little guys, talking giants like cvs and walgreens. amazon bought pill pack for $750.21 $750.02 and a half years ago we're in a pandemic where it's been a lifeline for people and businesses if anything this should make us realize that we need widespread delivery of medicines so people don't have to crowd into buildings to get prescriptions

we should be thanking amazon for spurring the rest of the industry to figure out safe, fast drug delivery. >> do you think, though, this is going to put some local merchants in a tough spot. that will happen, but maybe that's called progress >> they're already in a tough spot i think as we have seen, andrew, you guys have been talking about it on "squawk box," talking about it throughout cnbc the pandemic has really exposed the need for businesses of all sizes to embrace technology. i mean, we were just talking about, you know, marcus lamonis was on yesterday, talking about how they were complaining about door dash and uber eats before, and now keeping a lot of companies in business. i think it's similar with things like this. >> can i ask this, why do you think that the pharmaceutical distributors or these types of retailers that we're talking about have not been more innovative over the past several years in terms of becoming more

and more digital so that knowing amazon's going to come at them there's a company called capsule in new york that does delivery you have not seen a lot of innovative incumbents get into the game in a meaningful way. >> we talk about good rx that took a hit when amazon made the announcement a couple of days ago on the insurance side. there have been others, oscar, but i think this area is complicated from a regulatory standpoint, figuring out things like delivery. that's part of the value that amazon sought in purchasing pill pack, rather than pushing into this area themselves it takes really smart minds, not just on the technological side, and a lot of big companies don't have the incentive to disrupt themselves until somebody big moves in and scares them up a little. >> okay. jon fortt. on the other hand, always good to see you, and always great to

get both sides of the debate >> both sides. >> joe >> thanks, andrew. still to come on "squawk box," david boies joins us to discuss the president's legal battle until the next. this guy might know a little bit about this do you remember what david boies. >> if there's one person to talk to, this is the man. >> do you remember what fashion statement he was 15 years ahead on back in the year 2000 do you remember? were you watching that closely white sneakers and a suit sneak skpe sneakers and a suit. remember that? >> i was going to say gap khakis maybe before steve kor knanacki.

>> and later, mark bertolini we are coming right back

a rare cnbc exclusive, liberty media's john malone, op

welcome back to "squawk box," jp morgan telling clients there's a chance the election process turns into chaos in a note they sent yesterday, their strategist warning of a quote what he's calling remote risk of an american horror story and constitutional mayhem. i want to welcome this morning high profile attorney david boies, chairman of the lawmak, n op-ed, it was titled, we opposed each other in bush v gore, now we agree, biden won. we want to thank you for joining us this morning, and just speak to the concerns you have about where we are in this transition process and what you think needs to happen. >> i think there are two concerns neither of which are really

legal concerns from a legal standpoint, this election is over there isn't anything that's going to be done to turn it around the two concerns are as this controversy or supposed controversy plays out, it is interfering with the biden administration's ability to get ready to go through the transition process and really be prepared to govern, and that's a disadvantage to everybody in this country republican and democrat alike. it doesn't make a difference who you voted for in the election, you want the new administration to be ready on day one to protect american interests both at home and abroad and that ongoing dispute in quotes is interfering with that. second, i think it's dividing the country. when you make baseless claims about widespread voter fraud and the like, you stir up this sense of people who really don't know the facts, haven't had the time to investigate themselves, that

somehow, something went wrong this this election, as both republican and democratic secretaries of state around the country have said, this was the most secure election in history. this was the election that had the greatest scrutiny, the most protections of any presidential election in history. and to try to undermine people's faith in democracy, i think, is unfortunate, but this is swirling around a political context, not a legal context. >> let me ask you, though, as a lawyer in terms of your duty as a lawyer, you have represented people that i imagine you have disagreed with their position. >> right yes. >> you have represented people that i imagine very well may have been guilty and you would argue they deserved to participate in the legal process, and there are supporters of president trump to this day who believe that at minimum he should be allowed to

go through the legal process what do you say to them? >> absolutely. i agree with that 100% i totally disagree with the idea that you go out and try to punish, try to demonize lawyers for representing a client in court. we want these disputes in court. if they bring them to court, they're going to get dismissed they're getting dismissed all the time we don't want it in the streets. we don't want this decided on social media we want them decided in court. and i think it's a terrible mistake for people to demonize lawyers for taking on a client that they don't like however, lawyers do have a responsibility to make sure that the claims they make in court are responsible ones and the courts will decide and will sanction lawyers who don't bring responsibility arguments that ought to be decided, as i

say, in court, not in social media. not in the political realm the thing that i think that is unfortunate is the president continuing to use the enormous pulpit of the white house and as president of the united states, to attack the election system. if he has issues, bring them to court, let the court decide them it is the making of these political assertions that i think just are without basis that i think is unfortunate. >> can you just take us back to 2000 for a second, and speak to the issue of how both sides worked with each other during this transition period at the same time that this legal battle was on going >> sure. if you remember, even when we were intensely fighting, both then governor bush and vice president gore, each worked on their own transitions. each had access to information each was being prepared to take

over if they happened to be the person who won and that's the way it's been traditionally. there's been a hand off even when there's been a bitter, bitter, election campaign. the loser has always conceded and the winner has always been gracious to the loser in terms of helping with the transition we have a situation here in which people are not cooperating in the way that we always have in this country. and this country is built on cooperation. our political system is built on cooperation and good faith, and when that breaks down, it breaks down to the detriment of the american people. >> i don't know if you had an opportunity to see that jp morgan report that i mentioned at the introduction of this. i'm just curious what you think of it. the author of it says bottom line, a lot of very unorthodox things have to happen for trump to be reelected. even so, i'm not ruling anything

out. what do you see as a -- i think we know what the best case scenario is if this were to end and there would be a peaceful transition, but do you see a situation that is a worst case sf scenario where there is not a peaceful transition. >> there's no worst case scenario you've always got to be careful about saying always and never. this is as close to a never situation that you can get in life there's no way that trump can overturn these election results. there's no political way there's no legal way there's not going to be any military coup. there isn't any way that this election can be overturned you can speculate a lot, but even the speculations eventually end with the same result, which is president biden being elected on january 20th. there simply is not a path, not a legal path, not a political

path, as i say, and certainly not a military coup path for president trump to remain in office. >> david, if the trump team had hired you, i'm just not sure you would be talking this way. i'm really not and remember, i didn't think -- you spent 37 days in democratic counties harvesting chads as you slowly built up democrat votes in florida to try and overturn that election because you were being paid to do it back then for that side. and you already made the point that you can't vilify a lawyer for anyone they represent. if you were on the trump team, you would probably be talking about, oh, my god, this, that, i know how that works. am i wrong >> i think you are wrong for example, take 2000 okay in 2000, there were lots of claims, for example, that vice president gore could have made you remember that there were

issues with respect to the ballots in seminole county, a republican county, absentee ballots that could have been challenged there were a variety of challenges that could have been made to military ballots in each of those cases, those might have been enough to change the election all by themselves vice president gore didn't make those challenges didn't believe that those were responsible charges to make. i think one of the things that characterized the 2000 election is that i think both sides made arguments that they thought were responsible arguments. now, if a lawyer makes an irresponsible argument, i don't think it's up to the social media to demonize them it's up to the courts to deal with that. >> was that the first time someone wore sneakers with a suit, do you know? do you take credit for -- i mean, it's a total societal change that i think you spearheaded. did you have bunions or

something, i'm wearing these sneakers what was that? how did that happen? >> if you go back to michael lewis's slate columns that opened the microsoft trial, he talks about my suit and sneakers going to court i've worn sneakers, typically black sneakers, but sneakers in court for a long time. they're simply more comfortable and when you're on your feet, you're looking for comfort. >> i hear you. i hear you but hey, you're a trend setter anyway andrew. >> okay. david boies, thank you so much coming back, so much to talk to you about, and look forward to talking with you again, in person, hopefully soon. >> i look forward to that. >> joe, back to you. >> he paved the way for you. are you going to thank him that's why you have sneakers on, even at the dealbook conference, probably, right? >> i put on my loafers

yesterday. >> oh, my god. >> my leather. >> that was a serious thing. >> being very serious. >> but no one could see your feet >> i know. >> that's ridiculous you didn't even need pants, you wore pants, right? former etna ceo mark bertolini, you did, on the latest covid-19 vaccine news, and amazon is pushing the pharmacy business. a reminder, you can always watch us live on the go if you want. why wouldn't you on the cnbc app. we'll be right back. when we started carvana, they told us

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welcome back to "squawk box," everybody. the futures this morning have been under a little bit of pressure after we closed down for the last two sessions in a row. right now dow futures off by about 26 they have been making a little bit of a comeback, showing improvement this morning s&p futures are down by less than 2 points, and the nasdaq is down by about 16 >> shares of nvidia are lower, earnings and revenue beat estimates, driven by a 16% gain in its compute and networking segment and a 25% gain in its graphic sellingmengment.

the company says revenue would decline in the third quarter, driven by a chinese customer that opted not to purchase the networking products. as a result, stocks down almost 10 points which for nvidia represents 2%, which is a commentary on just how well that stock has done is that the dog, cramer's dog or the stock we're talking about there. andrew thanks, joe. i think that's the dog mark bertolini, former ceo of et na on the late vaccine news and the challenges on distribution. >> and s.e.c. chairman jay clayton joining us for his first interview since announcing he's stepping down by the end of isth year "squawk box" returns with that and so much more right after this ♪ ♪ ♪

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welcome back, everybody, the coronavirus vaccine being developed by the university of oxford and astrazeneca was found to be safe and triggers an immune response among all adults that's according to preliminary findings of a peer reviewed phase 2 trial. phase 3 trials are underway. that news comes a day after the united states reached a total of 259,000 covid-19 deaths. joining us is mark bertolini, former etna chairman and ceo it's great to see you. it's been a while since we have talked to you. obviously the events that we've seen now, you have an understanding of how things play out. developing those vaccines has been the really hard work but the next step isn't going to be

all that easy either we need to figure out how to safely and effectively distribute the vaccine to millions of americans, and i know cvs is going to be playing a role with that etna is going to be playing a role with that where do you think we stand? what are the challenges we face, and how do you think this will play out >> great to see you, becky joe, andrew. i think the real issue here is the vaccine's great. the more the merrier i think we need more innovation, and it's been amazing what the pharmaceutical companies have been able to do. it's part of an arsenal that goes back to a broader pandemic framework where we first have to early identify, so get back into who the world health organization, get active there secondly, have the diagnostic and antibody testing to stratify the population so we know who's immune, and we also know who we need to press secretary, otect.

that way we can keep americans working while protecting americans that are at risk as the vaccines come along, you need to have the ability to track and trace, diagnostics, antibodies, and the vaccines because we don't know yet in any of these vaccines how long the immunity is, and when that immunity wears off, you need to understand when it happens, what kind of booster shot do people need and how do we keep that going over time. so the amount, the enormity of the data, and the frame work around doing that is going to be really important to build, and we don't have that yet, in large part, because we don't have a national plan. >> there's a lot of things that we can kind of jump into there but i want to start with one thing that you said, we need to figure out who is going to be most affected by this. i mean, i think that's part of the huge question. we know the demographic split that older people happen to be in worse shape with this people with comorbidities have a

worse time are we any closer to being able to figure out why some people are so greatly impacted, even if they don't have comorbidities, and others seem to do just fine. >> i think we're learning more every day, becky, and we'll continue to learn. it's going to take a while to get a real deep understanding of this disease and of the vaccine's impact but i think it's important that as long as we have a national framework around this, we can begin to approach all the public health issues, but even more importantly, we can build the capacity models we need to understand and ppe, hospital beds, skill sets and in ventilators and other things that allow us to have a buffer economy so we're not doing just in time responses to pandemics as they emerge this is not our last pandemic. we'll have more. >> mark, we're pretty long in the tooth in this pandemic, at least it feels like if it if

you're sitting at home why do you think we don't have a better plan, at least for the testing and contact tracing? >> because we don't have a framework to do it nationally across the board we could be learning so much from every part of the country if we had a way of aggregating the information or understanding and who's sick, why they're sick, what kind of antibodies are we seeing out there. what can be used for therapeutics, skand as the vaccines develop, how are they working, which is best for which population that requires a national data base, a national way of looking at the information, and we have decided to allocate it to the states, and i think that's wrong headed. >> mark, can you comment on what's going on with this amazon news this week and what you think the implication is for cvs, parent company of aetna, clearly there's a view that cvs health has not done enough to be able to compete, if you will, on the digital side how confident are you in their ability to do that

the ceo of cvs health, of course, coming from the insurance side now how do you think about that? >> well, first, nobody should be surprised that amazon has made this move. i think the timing is probably has been well planned for this very reason. to get our economy going again, customers, consumers, must feel safe going back into the economy. and so it's the responsibility of leadership, and all of these organizations, including the board, to better understand what is the value proposition, and customer experience that allows people to be safe to use your products and services. once you understand that, you have to then recalibrate asset allocation, and capital allocation, and people in a way that allows employees to come back to work in meeting that value proposition safely when you have both conditions where people know it is safe, then i think you can reopen the economy more robustly.

and i think that's the issue we're seeing with retail pharmacies across the board. they still want people in the stores to buy other stuff. and what you're seeing in companies like target which, you know, who would have thought on quarterly call, you would see them talking about adding curb spaces to deliver more product or look at reducing the number of stores saying digital first, and their stock goes up. the whole issue here is are we reshaping our businesses in a way that makes customers feel safe engaging with us and allows employees to engage with customers safely and that hasn't been cracked yet in retail pharmacy >> how important is it to look at cvs, aetna, at this point in that tie up to make it ways for these pharmacies to reach in other directions >> i think there is a strategy you know, i have great confidence in karen, we have been working together for over 20 years she's a very capable executive she's got the right level of

courage and curious i donsity te this forward i think she'll need support from the board in reshaping capital allocation and talent in the way a company can focus on exactly figuring out what is the digital first strategy for retail pharmacy, particularly cvs and aetna. >> mark, thanks for joining us this morning like i said, it's been a while we'd love to have you back soon. but thanks for your time it was good to see you. >> i'm back in the game. so good to see you all. >> okay. great. thank you. joe. >> thanks, beck. coming up, s.e.c. chairman, jay clayton joins us in his first interview since announcing he'll be stepping down at the end of the year. we're expecting the latest read on jobless claims at 8:30 we'll bring you those numbers as soon as they hit the futures ahead of that are red, but close to unchanged across the board dow down 20. sd eleven, s&p less than 2 "squawk box" coming right back rg

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good morning, dow futures have risen from their lowest levels of the morning. we're coming off the index's worst day in more than three weeks. and more hopeful news on the

covid vaccine front. this time it's astrazeneca's offering developed with the university of oxford we're going to bring you all of the details. and the exit interview, we have the first sit down with s.e.c. chairman jay clayton since he announced he's stepping down from his post at the end of the year the final hour of "squawk box" begins rightnow. . good morning, welcome to "squawk box," i'm joe kernen along with becky quick, and andrew ross sorkin wow, that's amazing, down 20 pointing points, we're now down 80. nasdaq down 15, we were down triple digits on the dow i think when we started the show

we have been there, and basically unchanged and then back to where we are right now here's some of the stories investors will be talking about today. check out the shares of macy's, the department store posting a smaller than expected loss same store sales did fall by 20%. that was less than the 23% decline analysts had forecast. yes, it's an $8 stock after all was said and done. if we went back even further, i remember becky lundgren up, things were firing on all cylinders, the old fedderated vietnam is reportedly threatening to shut down facebook if it doesn't sensor vietnamese content facebook has to be an expert everywhere i don't know a whole lot about

the political backdrop in vietnam. that's according to reuters. facebook agreed to a vietnamese request to sensor more anti-state posts earlier this year the country asked for even stricter measures in august, according to to sources cited, facebook's revenue in vietnam comes in at a billion dollars. a billion dollars from just vietnam, and the u.s. has passed 250,000 deaths from covid-19 according to johns hopkins university cases nationwide stand at more than 11 1/2 million, but also some good news this morning as it usually is about either a th therapeutic or vaccine astrazeneca says its candidate being developed with oxford university produced a strong immune response in older adults. that was in phase 2 trials late stage phase 3 trials are currently being conducted to confirm findings and put a number on what that means, most people developed a response.

andrew folks need to be watching this united airlines making headlines. the company seeing an up tick in cancellations as a result of the recent spike in covid cases. bookings have slowed down. it expects total revenue in q4 to be down 67% year over year, but that slowing could weigh of course on the parmarkets as we e hoping things would get better this gets to the issue that there are people of course who are going to make their own decisions about what to do, and sound like people are slowing down their travel. becky. here in new jersey, they are saying you shouldn't have more than ten people at a family gathering. i think it's even smaller, perhaps, in california coming out and saying cancel the thanksgiving holidays, which

could explain some of the up tick, being told to do it, and people thinking about what that might mean it's not just governors that are doing this you have school districts asking the same thing, saying please don't do this over the holidays. we would like to continue being in person for places that are in person one more covid development to tell you about, the new york city public school system, the largest in the nation is going all remote starting today because of those rising virus cases. we have seen similar switches across the country, and there's a potential cost to the economy as more students learn remotely. steve liesman has more on the latest and his road back barometer, and this is a really tricky set up. you know the virus is out there. you know that things are getting worse. it's a question of what to shut down and where in the schools. it's a pretty controversial call >> i've read heart wrenching notes from superintendents to parents over the last couple of

days but the shuttering of the largest school district. an ominous sign of what may be to come for the broader economy. the national index compiled by the online community event showing the percent of the school districts they track that are teaching virtually has risen four points in the past week to 40%. 2 points of that are new york city alone there have been equal declines where it came from is those teaching traditionally in school and the hybrid combination yesterday's announcement, though, was just part of the broader trend. schools in 33 states have enacted full or partial closures in recent weeks including colorado, texas, ohio, indiana, and michigan where the governor yesterday shut down the state's high schools now, here's the national county map. shows schools in florida, texas, wyoming, montana, the deepest purples there, along with the states in the south, mississippi, alabama, still at

100% or near 100% traditional. and it remains to be seen how they react to the outbreak, whether it gets broader from here now school closures can come along with other business closures and government lock downs. one of the biggest impacts will be to push care givers out of the work force as we have talked a lot about. this hits women especially hard. we could see renewed pressure on jobless claims we'll get that at 8:30 jim o'sullivan for tv securities writes about the economy momentum looks downward and we expect monthly indicators to show at least modest contraction over coming months, like other economists, though, o'sullivan forecasts better times when a vaccine is deployed. it looks like for schools, parents and the broader economy, these are going to be a very challenging next few months. becky and andrew, you feel like i ought to get out of the way. this is emotional and personal for both of you guys i'm lucky enough to have kids out of high school at this point. but some of the letters i read, and what i'm hearing from parents is just unbelievable

frustration and concern and anxiety about the skeconomy rig now. >> it affects all three of us. joe's son is still in high school, too, and we have had a lot of talks about this, steve, over the recently months, what this means i think the thing that's maybe the trickiest when you look at the new york city school system is that community spread is at 3%, but when you look at the transmission in the schools, that is a much lower number, far below 1% and for those of us who have kids in schools that are still going in person, the schools seem like the safest place, however when the numbers go up in the community, you know it's going to increase the numbers in the schools at some point. i think for me the biggest question has been testing or lack thereof and it's pretty tricky when you're dealing with public school systems because public schools are not allowed to refuse any student education, say they can't come if they refuse to take a test. that gets you into tricky areas.

for public schools that's a big deal. >> i'm glad you brought that up, becky. because on the one hand, new york city is a sign of what's going on around the country, but it's also unique the percentage that led to the school closures in new york city is very low. that 3% rate relative to other places that either remain open or shut down where they were in the double digits. new york city is its own case in that regard. what we see is two reasons why the school is closing. one is the community spread, what's going on around the schools, and the second is quarantining let's say there's an event in school, and some schools are hyper about that, where one case can create a shut down whether that's right, i don't think anybody has the right play book here. and if you read these notes where the superintendents write to the schools say, hey, folks, we tried and tried and tried, and i'm sorry, but we cannot keep these schools open. you can see they want to keep them open but right now what they're doing is, i think it's the cautious part, and by the way, schools, becky, were not

the leading indicator last time or a lagging indicator they closed right along with the broader business closures in the economy back in march. >> yeah. it's, as i have said time and time again, there are no good or easy answers in any of this, but steve, thanks for highlighting some of these issues, it's good to see you andrew. >> one note on this, the low levels you were talking about, the other component is the unions, teacher unions in new york city, and that 3% number, and why this is happening. it is a low level, and we want to protect our teachers. there is no question that teachers' safety and their health is crucially important, but in terms of understanding why this is happening in new york city relative to other places that might not be shutting down at these rates, it is a very very very powerful union, private schools, as becky mentioned and i would say our children are private school students, beneficiaries of this

are remaining open at least as of now i know there's a debate about that, we can talk more about all of it. on the other side of the break, we have s.e.c. chairman, jay clayton, joining us for us for his first interview since stepping down from the position at the end of the year so much to talk about his tenure and what comes next. as we head to a break, surging chairs of sonos, the speaker market maker, beating estimates on the top and bottom lines for the latest quarter with a 15% jump, 67grth i% own its direct-to-consumer business. stay tuned, you're watching "squawk" on cnbc

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welcome back to "squawk box," s.e.c. chairman, jay clayton plans to step down at the end of the year. the agency brought close to 3,000 enforcement actions and took in more than $14 billion in financial remedies chairman jay clayton joins us now. chairman, it's great to see you. thank you so much for joining us i think we could describe this perhaps as the exit interview.

i want to talk about your tenure in just a moment i want to get to a piece of news that the "wall street journal" reported on earlier this week which is your view of this 10 b 5 program, insider trading among executives, and your push potentially against that given what we have seen now with some of these pharmaceutical drug sales, including the ceo of pfizer i know you're not going to be able to enact any meaningful changes in the last month, but what do you think should happen? >> andrew, it's a great question, and look 10b51 programs are part of an approach for executives with their shareholders you want to compensate executives with stock, but at some point they need to be able to sell the stock for the personal needs we have and how do you do it in a way that you give confidence to the marketplace, that you're following good corporate hygiene, as i say, and good governance, one is a 10b5-1

program, and you tput it in place. and sales occur over time. i believe that a gap between the time you put it in place or a time that you materially amend it and the time of the first sale gives people greater confidence that you haven't tried to time the market i think it's something, all companies should consider it, and i think it's something that we should consider i would say codifying into our rules around 10b5-1 plans. >> and for that to happen, would that be the next chairman of the s.e.c. that would enact that or something that would require legislation. >> you could do it either way. the next chair of the s.e.c. could do so. i'm trying not to bind my successor in any way but i think this is an area where there's broad support. i don't see any harm in having to wait. particularly if you're in for the long-term, alongside your fellow shareholders, and i think

it would improve confidence in that sort of alignment of interest, but eventually having liquidity dynamic that is present in almost all public companies today. >> chairman let me mention to you that when you announced you were stepping down on monday, i got an e-mail from a ceo that your tenure has been vastly underappreciated you have been relatively quiet you have come on "squawk box," jay clayton could go down as the most effective chair, what he has done to create opportunities to bridge the wealth gap are incredible the s.e.c.'s recent harmization rules streamlining capital raising for small businesses is a game changer my question to you is when you hope that people look back on your tenure, what do you want them to perhaps appreciate or what you think may be under appreciated? we're showing numbers for enforcement actions. i know some of the criticism is

that you haven't been as forceful on that but the numbers reflect otherwise? >> well, it's really about main street investor participation. let me compliment you guys on how you bring these issues of our interconnected economy, you know, out in a very clear way. our main street investors need to be interconnected with our economy, and how can they do that in the most efficient way and get a deal where they're sitting side by side with the professional investors that's been my perspective that's the perspective of the women and men here at the s.e.c. how do we keep making it better for them, and you know, one of the things you mentioned, andrew, is our private markets for most small and medium sized businesses, our public markets are not an option. they need to fund themselves in our private markets. to do so, you need to find

investors. but investors also want to find those opportunities. one of the things we have tried to do is make sure our main street investors can sit side by side in professional investors and those opportunities, and small and medium sized businesses do not need the array of lawyers and professionals that public companies need in order to access capital. that's been a driving force here all with investor protection in mind >> jay, what do you think, though, historically some of the people have had a much more antagonistic, at least, publicly antagonistic approach towards business the enforcement numbers are clear, you can look at the data. you have taken at least rhetorically a different approach, and i'm curious how you think that the next chairman should approach this >> maybe it's my personality, whatever it is, i believe in

investors, i also believe in investing. you have to have good companies to invest in, and we have tremendous companies in this country, 62 of the world's hundred largest public companies are here in the united states. incredible engines for growth. we have seen them respond to the pandemic in an incredibly transparent way. that said. if somebody does something wrong, we're going to whack them we don't need to paint a broad brush. we need to paint with a scalpel, if you have a bad executive. they should be out of the business it's a privilege to be a public company executive. by and large, the way the recent period has demonstrated that our public companies, public/private partnership is an incredible strength of america. >> wanted to ask you a couple of other topics, one is cryptocurrency, which has been on your watch. you haven't necessarily approved

it for any real market making opportunities, and i think there were a lot of people hoping that you would. i want to show you a tape. i talked to jamie diamond yesterday. obviously jp morgan got in behind crypto. a lot of people thought he might be a supporter of bitcoin, and he said that he wasn't because of this. let me play it for you >> my experience with the government is they can regulate whatever they want when they feel like it, and you know, bitcoin is worth $200 billion, something like that, if it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, it will be relatigulated. >> so what do you think, will they you didn't >> well, let's put it this way, andrew, we did not regulate bitcoin as a security. when people use crypto assets as securities to raise capital for a venture, the s.e.c. regulates that, what was happening in the ico craze was people were using icos and essentially making

public offerings of securities without registering them with the s.e.c. we determined that bitcoin was not a security it was much more payment mechanism but the government does regulate payments and what we are seeing is our current payment mechanisms, domestically and internationally, having f t efficiencies, driving the rise of boitcoin, driving these type of digital assets and we're going to see more of that, and we're going to see this mature, and see more regulation around the payment space. >> also we keep talking about spacs, that's been something else that's taken place and become a frenzy on your watch. we only will realize or appreciate the performance or under performance of these types of approaches in the years to come

do you think that your successor should regulate the closures in any different way given the various incentives of the players that are not, if we're being fair about it, completely aligned? >> well, you and i have spoken about this, and i have tried to make it clear to our investing public that the incentives around a de-spaccing transaction, the acquisition transaction are different from the incentives in your typical ipo, and the process is different. you do not have the same road show and institutional investor kicking the tires that you have in your typical ipo. we are looking at that and looking at whether disclosures, should be guidance or otherwise try and help companies craft the disclosure i'm seeing better disclosure, andrew seeing more clear disclosure about the motivations of the sponsors and the like in the spac space, and, you know,

earlier i think you had adena on earlier, talking about how there's more forward looking information in the spac space. maybe one way to look is there should be more forward looking information in the ipo space. >> fascinating jay, we very much appreciate you being with us, and we look forward to having you on many more times in your new role of whatever that may very well be in the future. thank you so much for joining us >> thank you, andrew >> you bet becky? when we come back, breaking government jobless claims data plus we will ask investing heavy weight, john rogers where he's looking to deploy capital now that we're getting some positive ay vci da.neat st tuned, you're watching "squawk box," and this is cnbc

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welcome back to "squawk box," rick santelli here live at kme hq, looking for the latest data on jobless claims 742,000 on initial claims. of course that breaks the streak we had dropped four weeks in a row. the our last week at 709,000 may still get revised and it's not a bad number, but it certainly isn't the number we were expecting. we were expecting to be closer to 700,000 or breach that level. on continuing claims, 6,372,000, and that indeed, does continue the streak that is the 8th weekly drop in

continuing claims in a row last week 6,786,000 still stands, although, in the next few seconds, there are revisions, but it actually was revised up a bit up a bit so we still keep our record of eight in a row 6,801,000 last week. currently week, 6,372,000. so not bad there and with respect to how the markets have been behaving, of course we know there's more hot spots, and how various parts of the country deal with it, of course, is going to affect the economy. it's going to affect travel, and it's going to affect these numbers ultimately but there's not much business can do when government tells them that they have to deal with the conditions as they currently exist in a more safe fashion. joe. back to you. >> yep, thanks, rick, and steve liesman joins us now steve, normally, you know, one thing the market used to have going for it when there was a disappointing number was that it might increase the odds or

stimulus i don't know if that works anymore, does it >> you know, i used to be able to answer that question because it was a fed question. now it's a political question so i'm going to ask you the same question, joe. >> no, i don't think it's looking real good. >> i don't think so. i don't think so either. but, you know, i have said this all along, joe, maybe you think i'm too cynical about this but i really think that we're in a place, and this goes back to any experience in 2008 remember why they eventually passed tarp, there was like an 800 point decline in the dow i really think that, you know, congress for so many reasons, and whether it's right or wrong takes its cue from wall street as to what the outlook is for the economy and without a big decline in the stock market, i don't think they feel the urgency. >> they're lame duckers, too. >> even though there is an urgency. >> sounds dirty. they're lame duckers too this is as long as those house members ever have before the

next election. this is the one time when they may actually be thinking about doing what's right, rather than doing what's, you know, they may not be worried right now about the next election. >> well, let's talk about these numbers, joe you have this increase in unemployment insurance claims. and i'm trying to look for this extended benefits because one of the things we this seen is we had seen people losing their regular benefits and moving over into the pandemic emergency unemployment compensation benefits that looks like it's now at 4.3 million. which is up. so you have these -- so there's that then if you remember, joe, from the jobs report we had back in october or back in early november, for october. that was pretty good, and that kind of lessoned the urgency for stimulus maybe, and i don't want this to happen, maybe if the jobs numbers go the other way, and we start seeing pressure from

what's happening in the virus to the economy, maybe congress will act if the unemployment rate starts to go the other way, more people become unemployed, and these numbers, which i hope improve end up going the other way, that might be the trigger for stimulus. >> it also, like it's your fault, that's all we hear, and in a lame duck session, when there's not an election coming up where you can be held, you know, there's consequences i don't know who would step up, trump's not going to step up if there's a, you know, force a stimulus package if the market goes down: who would step up if the market were to have a significant break, steve >> it's up to the septuagenarian leadership of congress pelosi and mcconnell have to get together, whatever we said and did before, we have to come forward for the good of the country, for the good of families, all sorts of reasons

>> that's an ok toe septuagenarian combo there, steve. speaker pelosi is 80, i think, so it's not just mcconnell. >> she's 80, you're right. >> not octomom, but. >> but they're not feeling it, joe. that's really the big story here, and i keep talking about this, and i feel like i'm alone, i'm very alone in this point of view, joe, which is, you know, you see the market at a pretty decent level here, it doesn't seem to be struggling and so everything feels like it's okay. but when you look at, you know, we had jason trennert, talking about first quarter contraction. there's a lot of pain and grim news to come before this vaccine comes, and i read something yesterday, joe, think about the vaccine. you know, you get it, you stay home for 30 days until you get the second booster and then another 14 days until you're

able to get out there and act like things are normal if the thing works the way we think it's going to work i don't know that the market is a little bit too optimistic about the time line, not necessarily the effectiveness but the time line as to when that vaccine starts to help our economy. >> well, you know, none of us have had the vaccine, and you know, some of us are out and about safely, as much as we can, anyway, so i don't know. if i got the first booster or the if i got the first shot, i would wear the marvsk, do the social distancing. >> you would be out there dancing, right, joe, already, with the first booster shot? >> nothing that's going to happen medically is going to have me dancing, steve, i don't think, it's not good for anybody. but i do go, i have been to restaurants, and eaten indoors, and that's probably not a possibility anymore in new jersey i think they're closing. anyway, as i said again and again, been drinking alone at

home, haven't sided up to the bar. that's definitely something i'm not ready to do in a closed space. i can't imagine. stay right there. >> is that a stevie ray vaughn song. >> most of the time i drink when i'm alone. that is one of them. let's bring in simona micuda, senior adviser at state street advisers were you able to hear what we were talking about, what's your comments in general, after hearing our discussion, which was very smart and informed? >> i don't think i agree with steve's comment about needing to watch these numbers. there are two elements to the claims data. one is the level, one is the trend, and the trend has been improving so we need to see whether this is a one month leap or something shifting here trend ways, one month doesn't make a trend but we know we are

entering a period where activity is being scaled back a little bit because of the virus measures and the measures officials need to take to contain. it's quite possible over the next few weeks you're going to see a deterioration in the initial claims number. >> go ahead, simona. i think steve's mic was on i don't know what he said, but finish your thought. >> what's tricky in my mind, i have been struggling with the very high number of initial claims so the level has been a little difficult to understand when you compare that with improvements in other labor market indicators. so, you know, and on the other hand, you see the big drop in the continuing claims number, and of course some of that more recently has to do with the fact that benefits are expiring for some people. even when you look across the different programs in aggregate,

the signal is one of improvement. temporarily you might see a deterioration in the claims material, it will be contained or even avoided. >> rick, i know you're still with us, you can opine on the numbers we just saw or, i don't know, i guess it depends on what the surge in virus cases looks like i just thought if i got the vaccine and i could still wear the mask, the next 30 or 44 days, i can't see myself, you know, hiding in the basement, rick, you know i don't hide in the basement now, so i might be wrong but if you social distance and keep your mask on, we don't necessarily have to go back to where we were in march, do we? >> come on, joe. that's way too logical you're approaching this from too logical of a vantage point absolutely, whatever people are doing now, whatever they feel comfortable doing, and you know,

individuals do have a brain. governors aren't the only people that think they can think for themselves, but yes, after the vaccine comes, whether you get the one shot or the two shot, however it ultimately turns out, i i think that we're going to have an upward trend. take the first vaccine, you're going to try to stay safe but i don't think you're going to put the car in reverse and what's more, we'll get the world that's being created china issues a 5, 10 and 15 year debt deal in europe, denominated in euros, the first year tranche is the first negative debt they have issued. it keeps climbing. i understand we all need to be safe, we need to have the government work with the people, and try to come up with solutions on how to deal with this rising infection the rate as the vaccine ultimately comes out, but there's so many moving parts here that we need to think about, and i certainly think that the wrong thing to do is lock yourself in the basement. ultimately, we all need to come

outside. the issue is how can we do it in the most safe manner, and try to keep things moving along as best we can because we do have a world on the other side of this that we like to salvage. >> simona, do you think -- what we heard steve talk about some forecast for what the next gdp looks like what's your forecast at this point? does it -- is it going to be really disappointing >> it all depends on what you compare it with, right if you're comparing with the third quarter, you're going to say what's this, barely any growth, so i think the good thing is that we are already halfway through the 4th quarter. these restrictions you're likely to see over the next few weeks have yet to heed the real economy. and you're heading into a holiday season where by default spending tends to be concentrated during those weeks, so i think perhaps if things

deteriorate when you're really going to see the impact in terms of customer spending will be q1, versus right now because, you know, thanksgiving is coming, christmas is coming. new year's people are going to try to find some joy in their lives, and not just hunker down in the basement. >> okay. all right. simona, thanks, rick, thanks, lie liesman. >> george thoroughgood, when i drink alone. >> when i drink alone, i prefer to be by myself. you know what i order, one bourbon, one scotch and one beer so when i do, anyway. >> we can still laugh a little bit, my friend. >> can't we please, occasionally, anyway simona, thank you. rick, i don't know what your preference is, i like the hard -- i have been drinking some seltzer, i like the black

cherry. >> fire ball. >> butterball, that's a turkey. >> fire ball. >> oh, fire ball all right. becky, sometimes i drink, you like the white wine, right, with your finger up >> yeah, i like the white wine i have not tried the white claw. george, when he drinks by himself, i think he drinks the johnny walker. >> and maybe jim beam. >> gentleman jack, a couple of others he drinks with. anyway, guys, when we come back, an interview that every investor should be paying close attention to ariel investors chairman on the markets. and a little bit of news and a little bit of fun. disney shares are down by about 1/2% the company's california adventure park is partially reopening following a covid related shut down. >> and today happens to mark exactly 25 years since disney's

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and more than a half a million clients worldwide, u.s. money reserve is one of the most dependable gold distributors in america. welcome back to "squawk box. some good news for a company that we have been tracking, q health, the point of a rapid care test that delivers results in 20 minutes, launching a pilot program with the department of health and human services across five states.

the tests will be used in high risk settings such as nursing homes. the state's participating in this program include new jersey, florida, texas, louisiana, and alaska and those tests will also be used internally at the department of defense. so something to watch there. they've created something that almost looks like an ipad or i pod, you put it in and it spits out the answer in 20 minutes we have talked to that ceo now i think once or twice on the show, and it's interesting to see the progress they're making. joe. thanks, andrew coming up, jim cramer's first take on today's market action and ariel investment's john hi hrs lays out the reasoning bendis biggest pandemic era moves. stay tuned "squawk box" will be right back.

a rare cnbc exclusive, liberty media's john malone, covid challenges in the changing streamin

welcome back to "squawk box. want to get to cnbc headquarters where we join jim cramer now good to see you. i want to talk about -- it is going to be political, but i've seen it on twitter and i've seen you talking about it, how worried you are about what is happening with this transition, we were talking with david boyce about this issue earlier i want to understand what you

think it means for the markets, looking at the jpmorgan note put out about the possibility there could be real market volatility if not worse as this progresses. >> yeah, first of all, congratulations on once again an unbelievable conference. glued to it. >> thank you you're very kind. >> incredible people i think that michael semblis is the single best person to listen to on this, a strategist who has written about this and talked about the idea that there may not be the kind of transition that people think. the president's deeply entrenched there are still many open issues a lot of people feel that every time he brings a challenge, it fails, not true. because he continues to bring challenges, because he has -- he owns the justice department. this is not like nixon nixon played fair. nixon understood that there was a democratic process as much as he hated it at the end but he obeyed. and i think that perhaps

president trump should take a page from nixon and say, look, i got to go by the law, even though i don't like it because that was what -- that was one of the worst times in our country's history and there is no way the president has to make it that way he didn't have a watergate break in or anything but it is time. i'm solicited by the president to give money to the election. and i've never seen anything like it. only semblis wriis writing about it you can come in one day and the president can say, look, i'm the president, and i don't care what you say. we have a militia that goes in honestly, no one knows, it never happened so, i mean, i think the president -- i think president trump likes things that have never happened and i think that it is kind of like the apprentice and the guy is not going down the elevator so, i don't know i think people should listen to what michael says, because i

think that jamie is probably listening to what michael says at jpmorgan and i think he's caused a level of concern that has gotten me very worried about the outcome here and there is no outcome yet. december 15th, the electoral college has voted, maybe that will be a moment, but otherwise, when you look at the tweets, he isn't going anywhere he's not he's not >> jim, it is a fascinating perspective and i would love to talk to you about it much more you'll be talking about that and so much more in a couple of minutes and we'll find you on "squawk on the street" and listen intently. in the meantime, i'll throw it over to becky. thank you, jim >> thank you, andrew eight months ago as covid slammed the markets, investment managers scrambled to try and find stocks that would work in the new pandemic era since then, aerial put money into veil resorts, viacom and mattel joining us is aerial investments chairman and co-ceo john rogers. john, it is good to see you. i know this has been a pretty

trying time for lots of people and trying time for the markets too. you made some bets on things like mattel and vail that paid off in a big way did you anticipate what was going to happen? was this more a stroke of luck what happened. those stocks are up by 40%. >> thank you, becky. you know, one thing as you know i often talk about our mutual friend warren buffett and his perspective you always think long-term and our capitalist democracy here in america is the best thing ever invented and we resolve our problems, we get through them, and if you think with the perspective of looking forward, it allows you to make better decisions so these companies were getting crushed during the height of the pandemic people didn't believe in them. there was an opportunity to buy some extraordinary brands at bargain prices you know wonderful time >> john, never occurred to me, i don't know if i never paid attention or this is a new logo. i was checking out the logo

behind you, it is a turtle with a cup. is this an example of slow and steady wins the race >> exactly thanks for mentioning that, becky. we started that now almost 38 years ago when we decided to have the tortoise as our logo. we're really proud of it, and it has worked very well, reminds us to think long-term and be patient. >> with that sort of patience and long-term strategy, it still is shocking when you see some of the huge moves some of these stocks have made recently. mattel, maybe look at that and say, okay if people are going to be at home for a while, they'll be buying more toys for dhithei kids did this have anything to do with the pandemic or are you look around and through the pandemic >> the stock had gotten crushed. and we were talking to our friend ron baron about some of the best bargains in his portfolio. and he -- i followed ve eed vai

long time. you had to be patient and wait for it to come in at a bargain price because people were no longer skiing and they missed the spring season because of covid. people were very afraid that maybe people wouldn't come back to vail and all the great mountains they control throughout the world so we thought this is a chance to buy a world class brand at a bargain price, and put a name in the portfolio we can own for the long, long run and getting in again at the bargain price that happened during the spring f you think about it, vail is -- really perfectly situated because if you have skis on, you're six feet away from your counterpart and fellow skiers, wearing a mask most of the time. we think they'll be able to come back faster than most leisure companies. >> what about a stock like mattel, which has seen a big run-up on the idea that people are spending a lot on toys last night, spending a lot on toys right now. you think that lasts after the pandemic goes away. >> i do.

enon has done an extraordinary job. he's been in his spot for a couple of years. and not only are hot wheels exceedingly strong, they're bringing back old brands, fisher-price is coming back, american girl is coming back, they slashed costs really right sized their manufacturing footprint throughout the world, they got some terrific movies coming out, once they start to manufacture movies again in the country. barbie is extraordinarily situated we think it is selling for half its value. had some nice recovery, we think there is still a long-long way to go. >> probably worth pointing out mattel is actually the largest position you own in any stock. but you have a lot of other companies that you put money behind since march too one of them is viacom. that stock is up 70% since then. what is your thesis on why to get in >> we believed in the management team there, we thought they were well prepped and content is king. that's what sumner redstone taught us and talked about often.

viacom brands are extraordinarily strong, cvs brands are strong, and the ability now to come together and have a streaming service under the name paramount, people are starting to really value that. that stock got crushed and went all the way down to 11 it is back up to 33. but it continues to sell at a very low multiple, that content is underestimated. and they have some great assets, be able to sell simon and shuster for much more than people thought possible. they have some other strategic asset sales that are out there it is still an extreme bargain, even today >> let's talk about one more name, that's invista, another company that you put money behind since march, since the pandemic began and i think that stock is up better than 40% since then. >> right you know, it is one of those companies, our healthcare analyst had been following for years, we kept hoping it would be able to come into our price range. and because of the pandemic, people were not going to dental offices, they were putting off

procedures, so the dental stocks got crushed again. and for us that just didn't make any sense because you know -- you got pain in your mouth and your teeth are hurting, you have to come back they have some great brands like kerr and others that are well positioned so as people came back, into dental offices, purchases recurred and started to happen again, and invista has been a great stock for us and we think it is another long, long-term winner because they're well positioned in the dental marketplace. >> john, we're out of time if you had 20 seconds, is there a name you're putting money behind right now >> we love new york city and so we think madison square garden network is well positioned everyone hates regional sports nets and madison square garden entertainment that owns the garden itself and the land around it, it is cheap and well positioned >> thank you for your time it is good to see you. and we'll talk to you again soon >> great >> go tortoise a final check on the markets

now, we'll see right now, the futures are a little bit weaker. we have improved our position since where we started this morning three hours ago. dow futures down by 34 s&p down by 4. the nasdaq off by 15 andrew, welcome back again good to see you. joe, i will see you tomorrow too. both of you guys back here we hope all of you join us too right now time for "squawk on the street." good thursday morning. welcome to "squawk on the street." i'm carl quintanilla with jim cramer and david faber coming off the worst day of the month so far for the dow and the s&p as new covid restrictions raise concerns about q4 economic growth we are expecting recount results out of georgia today claims jump to 742,000, that ends four weeks of declines. road map begins with the virus and new restrictions as new york city closes schools and deaths across the country now top a quarter of a million nationwide. >> and throughout the hour we'll have parts of my eluve