welcome. good afternoon this is "power lunch." along with kelly evans, i'm tyler mathisen stocks are near the session lows, red numbers, after hitting record highs jpmorgan has a warning out about some of the biggest winners this year, and that is certainly contributing to the numbers you see right there. dashing higher, dasher, prancer, doordash, trading at $177 a share. we'll have more on that and the big year for ipos coming up. and we are watching shares of fireeye, the cyber security firm that companies turn to for protection, becoming victims of a state-sponsored hack we've got those details at "power lunch" starts right now

thank you. welcome to "power lunch. today is all when the ipos a huge end to be a huge year bob pisani, and leslie picker is looking inside doordash. softbank may be taking itself private. deirdre bosa is on that story. bob, let's start with you. >> i think the important thing -- by the way, just on the markets. we're sort of losing steam ever since doordash went public. semiconductors have been weak. it's been an amazing day for -- there's the s&p sitting at the lows of the day. an amazing day just overall for ipos and overall for the market. i want to show you doordash priced at 102, went public at 182, just below that right now, an hour and 15 minutes into trading, 33 million shares they floated. right now there's almost 20 million, about 19 million shares

traded in an hour and 15 minutes, 19 million shares compared to the 33 million float that's a lot of trading and a testimony to how much retail interest there is here same with c3.ai, by the way. they floated 15.5 million shares and almost 20 million has traded, believe it or not. they opened a lot earlier, but still this is an enormous amount of churn in a day. of course, interest from the retail investor, in my opinion a huge year for ipos we've had 202 deals so far, that does not include airbnb. they raised $73 million. this is the best year since 2014 for total raises 2014 was the record because we had alibaba. we raised $85 billion. we'll get close to a record year in all of this craziness here. ipos in 2021, a lot to look forward to we've heard about robin hood potentially coming and also spacex, stripe, waymo, instacart

as well, one of the doordash competitors as well out there. remember, spacs haven't had a big year but they raised almost the same amount of money 200 spacs have raised $64 billion. in 2021, heavens, we have 200 others that are already out there looking for acquisitions the bottom line, it's going to be a very busy year at least for the start in 2021 for ipos and spacs. back to you. >> as you point out, a lot of retail interest there as indicated by the amount of churn we're seeing today bob pisani, thanks we were told yesterday about the strength and the pull of the public markets right now listen in. >> the ipos are so hot right now and the size of my business and the restaurant industry and the gaming industry is something that people would want to own. so, i've listened to bankers they've said some very intriguing things.

there's also going to be -- disappointedly, they're going to be opportunity coming out of this pandemic. >> hint, hint, hint, leslie picker let's go to you and check out a little more about the ipo market >> i like that, bankers do tend to say intriguing things, especially when there are dollar signs involved, which there clearly are today. doordash going public with an opening trade that values that company at $69 billion on a fully diluted basis. that's over four times the company's valuation from a privatefinancing round in june, that's less than six months ago these types of moves are rare. in recent years the public markets have actually been more conservative than the private markets, but this is what we call a story stock, meaning it plays into some of the big investing themes of 2020 there's no denying that food delivery has become a bigger part of americans lives during the pandemic-induced

restrictions doordash has disproportionately benefitted, reaching number one in online food delivery. look no further than their benefit, which is doordash's top line, which quadrupled in the third quarter along with glimmers of profitability over the spring another 2020 story stock, airbnb the home rental platform is pricing tonight. it's expected to come in at the high end or above a boosted range. that could value airbnb upward of $42 billion on a fully diluted basis. we'll see tomorrow what the trading entails on that one. >> when you look at doordash, leslie, how many billions have they added today in value? >> they have add -- it depends on the time frame. from the $16 billion valuation, oh, gosh, that's 60 -- $55 billion in valuation they've been able to add when you look at where they priced their ipo at last night, they were

valued -- off the top of my head, i'm trying to remember what it was. let's put it this way, they have added a ton of money to their valuation in an incredibly short he period of time, which is remarkable, especially when you consider that this is a pandemic year, a year where we've seen a tremendous amount of restaurants go out of business, we've seen people struggling. then when you look at kind of the dichotomy that you see in the public market with companies that were valued at $16 billion just six months ago, now we're valued at close to $70 billion it's just a remarkable achievement in a short period of time. >> sorry to put you on the spot there. >> it's not -- >> it's many, many billions. this is the case of a company who's in the right place at a bad time the right place at the right time for them. leslie, thanks. our next guest says he would

avoid doordash but investors can rest well with airbnb. dave trainor, new constructs, a former analyst at credit suisse. welcome. is this company, doordash, a dash in the pan. >> i couldn't hear what you're saying we're having a technical difficulty let me just say, doordash is the wework of food delivery. the valuation here is absolutely astronomical when we call this the most ridiculous ipo of 2020 wework was the most ridiculous of 2019. valuation implied 50% market share ownership for doordash at the current $180 stock price we're talking over 120% of market share ownership for doordash to justify the current stock price. this is a business we don't think will ever make money

there's too much competition at one point grubhub had 50% market position but once doordash and others entered the market, their market share went way down that's a cycle that will continue no matter who is at the top or whoever can burn the most money. we think investors need to stay away from this this is a big risk -- this is a big shift away from soft bank and the other big private equity firms. >> david, are you able to hear me now or are you still sort of radio silence? do you hear me i guess david doesn't hear me, so - >> we're going -- what we're going to do is come back to david and get some final thoughts there meantime, over to kelly and deirdre bosa kelly? >> tyler, thank you. >> softbank could stand to make $10 million from doordash's ipo.

reports say softbank itself is thinking of going private. let's go to deirdre bosa who has more >> at $10 billion, doordash could be the vision fund's biggest win in terms of return and that's more munition to lament the underappreciation of softbank by public market investors. something he has said many times in the past. back in 2018 when softbank first got in, doordash was far behind uber eats and grubhub. it was also worth less than $1 billion. he saw something that other investors did not and in this case it worked out now, going private could give him more leeway to make these big, sometimes questionable, less understood bets the issue is that softbank has a current market cap of $130 billion. taking it private would, of course, require a lot of financing. but this time bloomberg is reporting that he himself is debating gradually buying back outstanding shares until he has

a big enough stake to squeeze out the remaining investors. last month he told andrew ross sorkin he's a believer in the company and if the shares drop, he would be a buyer. they continue to rise, reaching nearly 20-year highs this doesn't appear to be under serious consideration, but this is masison and he's been known to surprise us so i wouldn't entirely rule it out. >> like you said, $130 billion valuation. he can't possibly do it on his own, can he, or what kind of partners or leverage strategies would they have to come up with to pull this off >> well, as we know, softbank has been selling a ton of its assets, winding down stakes and companies like alibaba it was supposed to raise a ton of money through financial group. it has raised a significant amount of money this year to the tune of, i believe, some $80 billion. that would help.

that's why this reported strategy would be different. he would quietly buy back shares so he had something like 66% to squeeze out the other investors. it is a little bit of a longshot like i said, it's masa son, he's been known to do some unusual things on nearly every earnings call, i listened to the quarterly call, and he says the company is undervalued. so, you know, it sounds like he's frustrated he doesn't think the public markets are valuing the company where he thinks it should be and he may take that into his own hands >> like you said, he loves the moon shot. this would certainly be one. the share is up about 5.5% today. deirdre, thank you tyler, over to you >> let's go back to david for more thoughts there. we've repaired our connection to him. you said a lot of provocative things, even though i didn't get a question in your ear you said this is the wework of

2021 you said -- we've lost him again. let's just leave it at this. mr. trainor does not like doordash's i po and thinks if you're a retail investor and thinking of buying it today, you will regret it down the road. on the other hand, he has a more sanguin look at airbnb still ahead, we'll have more, yes, more, on the doordash ipo throughout the hour as we get ready for airbnb to price its ipo after the bell there you see real-time reactions potentially to what david just said about it the stock very volatile. despite all the euphoria, jpmorgan out with a stark message to the markets some of the hottest stocks this year could be about to cool off. we'll tell you what it means and why and what it means for that record rally when "power lun" tus.ch

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welcome back to "power lunch," everybody. the markets are lower across the board and sinking this afternoon. the nasdaq leading the declines down nearly 2% tesla, one of the biggest decliners in the nasdaq 100, some of the big winners are pulling back today and jpmorgan with a warning today about some of this year's hottest stocks, downgrading some high fliers, including zoom, crowdstrike, docusign. for zoom, the brokerage says the upside potential is already

priced in. and for more on that downgrade, go to cnbc.com/pro >> will do. if those high-flying growth stocks help lead the markets higher all year long start to lose steam, what does that mean for the record rally let's bring in dan suzuki, the deputy chief investment officer at bernstein advisers. eye been thinking about the early september example when you also had a market that seemed overstretched, when we have big-cap tech names that are still side ways if not lower since then and wondering, could a reset right now be one that happens beneath the surface as opposed to one that has the whole market down 10%? >> yeah, kelly, i think you're right. that's a big risk for the markets here if you look at the -- we look at profits, liquidity and sentiment at rba and the profit story in the near term, clearly there's a lot of risk if you look six to 12 months out, that story is looking

better liquidity is looking very good policymakers over the next couple of weeks are likely to provide even more reason for optimism on some sort of support. so, the real issue here, the big risk for the markets is that clearly sentiment and valuation have run quickly over the last few months if you're worried about sentiment and valuation, to your point, then you can look at a clear part of the market where those elevated valuations and popularity and crowding exist. it's not in the widespread market so, i think you can have, you know, an opportunity to invest in a lot of these unfavored names and still do very well if you think about 2000-2001, but actually small cap value stocks were up like 40% over that period. so, you can have gains in some of these areas where there's an overall rotation happening >> so, dan, let's say -- i know

you on the side of saying maybe now is the time to take profit in your growth stocks and rotate into some of these other names how long can that narrative run? eve seen some like andrew we willing ton who said this could be an 8 1/2 year value cycle others seem to be thinking about this as a couple months repositioning. what are you thinking? >> i think there's a cyclical story here and there's a secular story. and i think the cyclical story is that really this is nothing that's very specific to this cycle. this is true in most profit cycles, is that when the profit cycles look like it's going to recover, you want to own the beneficiaries of that recovery tech to their credit has done very well this year. and it's been rewarded for that outperformance in terms of profits. but as you look for the next 12 to 18 months, that story is going to reverse and a lot of that room to see profits boom over the next 12 months -- 12 to 18 months, that's in sort of

these value cyclical areas of the market that's the cyclical story. if you think about over the next ten years, then the number one driver of that is probably going to be current positioning and current sentiment and current valuation. if you look at any of those three, they're clearly supporting those value names, particularly -- not just in the u.s. but outside the u.s. and particularly in small caps as well. >> let's talk as well about some of the areas you would be looking at you said increased exposure. also quality and diversification health care, staples and gold. any kind of strong preferences in there, in particular? >> well, i think what you're sort of referencing right now in terms of our positioning is a bit of a bar bell we have given you have this near-term risk and uncertainty around covid but i think that once we can sort of get past this, you know, clearly the focus and the

portfolios should really be about that cyclical value, you know, long-term opportunity there. so, that's sort of the cyclical side i mentioned just take a look at some of the most out of favor areas in the market not just over the last month, but over the last ten years. and then it points to a lot of that stuff that we hold in our portfolios, whether it's small caps value, energy, you know, materials, international all that stuff has the potential to see their profits not just accelerate, you know, more than you're going to see the mega cap tech stocks, but boom over the next few years that's a tremendous opportunity for investors. >> all right dan, thanks for joining us good to get your thoughts. >> thanks. >> dan suzuki with rich bernstein advisers ty still ahead, cyber security firm fireeye suffering ablack eye. an unprecedented hack. what does it mean for the companies they protect former nsa hacker david kennedy

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welcome back to "power lunch. i'm seema modi we are watching starbucks with investor day kicking off in less than an hour they are going to share how they are with the pandemic. the trading nation team is mark newton, steve chiavarone steve, does it make sense that starbucks is trading in record high territory where you see same stores fall in the fourth quarter and even the prior quarter? >> well, without getting too much into details on starbucks, we're big fans of the consumer we think that the consumer is going to surprise to the upside next year. disposable income is 5% higher than it was a year ago the savings rate is at multidecade high and and consumers are sitting on roughly $1.5 trillion of excess. we think the vaccine is a gis returning home from world war ii moment, where we all want to go

places we can't go, do things we can't do today and we're not overly concerned about how much it's going to cost some of those things we'll want to do is go out to eat and visit family we can't see over the holiday. consumer services is an area we're overweight hotels, casinos, cruise ships and, yes, restaurants. as a broad category, we think restaurants, quick service, places that aren't eating at home are going to take share over the course of the next year we think starbucks are starting to price that in. >> the stock trading at $100 a share. where do you see it go from here >> hi, seema the stock does have a lot of near-term momentum that's a good thing. when looking on you the three to six months or longer, i don't view the stock as that attractive a risk/reward they have doubled off the lows but momentum is not able to catch up two charts to put this in, it shows a stock having broken out

above the highs it made back in july of 2019 so, it's had a decent breakout of late. the problem is that it is getting overbought when you look on a monthly basis, momentum after having doubled off the lows nine months ago, we only see rsi in the high 60s. it's not really able to catch up with what the stock has done that's a problem it doesn't mean necessarily it has further to go. it means that the stock has already had a huge runup, but yet momentum is starting to diverge from price for me that means that while, you know, near-term investors, you know, could potentially be long for a move up to 110, i don't like the long-term risk/would he ward and it's right to use strength to sell into year end, from my view. >> for more trading nation head to our website and follow us on twitter. back to you. >> thank you very much. tomorrow starbucks' ceo will be joining "squawk box" at 8:30

eastern time. still ahead on "power lunch," fireeye hacked in a state-sponsored cyber attack we'll get reaction from a former nsa hacker with fireeye shares down 13%. doordash sharply higher on its public debut trading around $175. right now priced at $102 that's a 72% pop >> announcer: and now the latest from tradingnation.cnbc.com and a word from our sponsor. >> some people refer to the vix as the market's fear gauge, but i like to refer to the vix as a gauge of uncertainty because while an elevated vix may imply the market is headed for a big move, those moves could be either to the downside or upside t bd hwy frederick anscab isheetter place for traders.

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welcome back i'm sue herera in the last few minutes, pennsylvania's governor has announced he's tested positive for covid and is in isolation at home. the pentagon is prepared to give the pfizer covid vaccine to

some military first responders and health care workers as soon as it's approved with an initial batch of 44,000 doses, expected to arrive as early as next week since the first approval will be an emergency authorization, officials say vaccinations will be strictly voluntary. >> we're recommending everyone take the vaccine when it becomes available to protect yourselves, your families, your shipmates, wingmen, battle buddies and communities. >> in bam ba many that state's 76-year-old governor is acknowledging a nickname some on social media are using to criticize her stay-at-home order and mask mandate but it isn't stopping her >> wear your masks,wash your hands, and sanitize your personal spaces as much as possible y'all, i'm not trying to be governor meano on some as social media have called me i'm simply trying to urge you to use common sense the good lord

gave each of us to be smart and considerate of others. >> and for anyone not familiar with the term memaw, the urban dictionary's top definition is, the best grandmother back to you. >> she plays the role very nicely, doesn't she? >> she does, absolutely. she stuck to her guns. >> very nice. markets, let's take a look all-time highs from earlier in the days but the industrials are off 0.3% s&p down 0.8%. nasdaq is off more -- almost 2% as technology shares take a little breather. and the russell also down for the day. the oil market closing eric has the numbers >> brent finishing flat and wti settling lower, off the worst lows of the session which it hit

after eia data u.s. inventory rose by 15 million barely last week which was the biggest increase since april. and u.s. import rose by most on record at 2.7 barrels. inventory levels will continue to be in focus amid ongoing demand concern as covid cases continue to rise worldwide kelly, back to you. >> thank you very much new york attorney general is holding a virtual press conference on facebook right now. let's listen in. >> by using its vast troves of money, face backe has squashed what facebook perceived as potential threats. they reduced choices for consumers. they stifled innovation and they degraded privacy protection for millions of americans. and in an effort to maintain its

market dominance in social networking, facebook has employed a buy or bury strategy to impede competing services first, facebook used vast amounts of money to acquire smaller rivals and potential rivals before they could threaten the company's dominance. i'll say bls were thrown at smaller companies in an effort to get them to sell. the two most glaring examples of this unlawful scheme were instagram and whatsapp facebook bought instagram for $1.2 billion in 2012 when the company did not have a cent in revenue. in 2014 facebook paid the extravagant amount of $19 billion for what theapp which

was far more than industry experts and even facebook itself valued the company the second and just as harmful in anti-competitive strategy, facebook utilized with suffocating and squashing third-party developers that were invited to utilize facebook's platform facebook would try to squeeze every bit of oxygen out of the room for smaller companies that refuse to be bought. facebook used an open-first, close later strategy to stop competitive threats where it would first open its platform to apps created by hird-party developers this increased functionality on the site and subsequently increased the number of users on facebook and then facebook abruptly cut off apps it viewed as a competitive threat some of these companies

experienced almost overnight drop-off in user engagement and downloads and their growth stalled. they also sent a clear message to the industry. don't step on facebook's turf, or as one industry executive put it, you will face the wrath of mark, referring to facebook founder ceo, chairman and controlling shareholder, mark zuckerberg this combination has allowed facebook to maintain its mond monopoly over the social networking market. and long adults logon to facebook every day new yorkers throughout our state and consumers across this nation use facebook to stay in touch with friends and family. they share content and have conversations. they post pictures and videos,

and with the ongoing pandemic, many use facebook as a critical place for social engagement. but while consumers have been spending their time keeping in touch on facebook, facebook has been spending its time surveilling users' personal information and profiting from it no company, no company should have this much unchecked power over our personal information and our social interactions. and that's why we are taking action today and standing up for the millions of consumers and many small businesses that have been harmed by facebook's illegal behavior so, we are asking the court to halt facebook's anti-competitive conduct and block the company from continuing this behavior in the future, as well as provide any additional relief it determines is appropriate by

restoring competition our lawsuit will help consumers have alternatives to facebook and they can vote with their feet when facebook puts profits ahead of consumers' welfare and privacy. i'd like to thank the 47 other attorneys general that have joined this lawsuit and almost every state in the nation has joined this bipartisan lawsuit because facebook's efforts to dominate the market were as illegal as they were harmful i'd also like to thank our colleagues and friends at the federal trade commission for their collaboration. the ftc filed their own lawsuit against facebook today as well and we look forward to collaborating with them in the litigation process as i've said before, we cannot let large corporations gain more and more power over our lives through anti-competitive practices that only serve their

interest and undermine the competitive spirit of our nation and the spirit of our economy and cause harm to consumers. this action is part of a renewed focus by my office and other state attorney generals on anti-trust enforcement and the harm caused to consumers and the economy when market power is unchecked and unregulated. today we are sending a clear and a strong message to facebook and every other company that any efforts to stifle competition and hurt small businesses reduce invasion and creativity or cut pricey protections, privacy protections, will be met with the full force of our offices. again, i want to thank chief deputy attorney general for economic justice chris d'angelo

and anti-trust bureau chief eleanor hoffman as well as assistant attorney general johanna skripzic and assistant attorney general zach bezones who were the lead attorneys on this matter. they were joined by a dedicated team of attorneys and legal assistants and economists and analysts and including assistant attorney general beatrice marquez, assistant attorney general james yun, assistant attorney general amber wes, and legal assistant arlene lebenthal as well as assistant attorney general hannah beck, assistant attorney general nathanial caslin, internet and technology analyst joe graham - >> that's new york attorney general latisha james as there's

this announcement about the states and the ftc jointly filing suit against facebook shares are at session lows, down 3% that has the nasdaq at session lows as well it's now down almost 2%. ylan is here with more details for us on these -- on this litigation ylan >> well, that's right. kelly is also under fire from federal regulators as well as the federal trade commission has now filed an anti-trust suit against facebook accusing the social media giant of trying to choke up competition by gobbling up smaller companies namely, whatsapp and instagram, as you heard the new york attorney general explain as well, and using its power to block third-party developers from creating and dwong new competitors. now, the complaint says facebook's attempts to eliminate threats was part of a systematic strategy and maintaining its monopoly and apprise advertisers of the benefit of competition.

the remedy the ftc is including divesting, prohibiting facebook from imposing anti-competitive conditions on software developers and also requiring facebook to seek prior notice and approval for future m&a. now, facebook has been in the ftc's cross-hairs for years. last year the ftc did impose a $5 billion record fine as part of a settlement with facebook over privacy concerns. they also forced facebook to restructure some of its operations as well so, we will see where all of this goes. now the ftc as well filing suit against facebook over aennti-trs concerns >> thank you very much, ylan for more on what this may mean for facebook and other priorities in the social media space, along with us is verge editor-in-chief eli patel and mark mahaney the stock has sold off rather

markedly here. it's not as though this is a huge surprise to investors in facebook that's question number one number two, what does the rise of tiktok say about facebook's utter dominance of this space? doesn't the presence of tiktok show you that there is room for other competitors here >> we've had rising regulatory risks on these tech platforms. apple, google, amazon, facebook for the better part of three or four years there's no question, these are extremely powerful platforms there's debate in my mind as to whether they got there through anti-trust practices i'm not a lawyer, that's not my field. but i think some of these charges kind of underappreciate the level of innovation that have brought these companies to where they are now your last point also begets something which is these areas seem like lockdown monopolies until they aren't, until you see the rise of assets like tiktok

our point of view is there is room for really good innovative companies to come in, have these companies been very aggressive in building up their positions today, yes do they provide values to consumer, a lot of value to consumers and merchants? absolutely their 10 million advertisers that use facebook to reach markets. this is where small businesses go it's no longer main street, it's now facebook street. so i think that's a rising risk. this is not going away any time soon you'll have to deal with this for years. >> this is not going to go away quickly. you are still comfortable, i take it, with your $350 a share price target that's question number one question number two, could they realistically and profitably spin off instagram and whatsapp either together or as a package or one at a time. >> no change in our view on the stock. this is one of our three

favorite in the internet space the stock is largely 90% going to be driven by fundamentals, regulatory actions will move 10% of the rest of the stock if estimates go up and they can prove that they can show accelerating revenue growth, expanding margins in the next year, this stock is going to go up these regulatory issues are an overhang but they don't change the thesis and our point of view could they spin these assets off? it would be very tricky to do that i think the more interesting ones would be whatsapp which has contributed almost nothing to facebook's p&l to date that's a very intriguing long-term asset. i don't think facebook has figured out how to monetize the app. if they can, that would be interesting. it's hard to argue that should be spun out. the facebook shareholder long term, i think they would want to focus on the rick of them having to spin off and lose whatsapp. a spinoff could create more value for the shares that's the irony of this situation. yes, i think it's hard to spin

those off. as an investor it would be harder with whatsapp >> it seems to me whatsapp has been able to do what teams or zoom has done. in your view, was facebook evil or were they just merely very smart in making the acquisitions of the properties they did when they did >> i can - >> i think they were very, very smart. >> go ahead. >> i think they were smart i think there's no question that mark zuckerberg is a genius when it comes to seeing threats to his business and acting harshly to stamp those out back in july the verge reported on internal emails inside of facebook during the instagram acquisition where zuckerberg was telling his lieutenants, telling

the cfo, the thing about competitors, we can always buy them he correctly identified that what enables a competitor of facebook is not direct competition. it's a new user experience instagram has photo sharing. tiktok, that's obviously vertical short videos that scroll up. it's the new mechanic he's always seeking to buy. i think he was smart to realize that early that that's what his competitors would look like. he was smart to act on it. i think what the government is getting into -- you are looking at 48 states plus the federal trade commission the federal trade commission is specifically saying it wants to unwind instagram and whatsapp. he may be smart but he's still acting anti-competitively. you broke the law. you identified a competitor and you aggressively moved to make sure they weren't a threat to you. you effectively moved to stamp out their growth and to decimate the playing field around the spaces you wanted to be in there's another level of facebook where they collect data

from their vpn to see what competitors are rising and decide to buy them or stamp them out early. you can be very smart, you can be aggressive. you can also cross the line. i think the core question for facebook in both of these lawsuits is showing they didn't cross the line when the evidence really indicates they knew what they were doing and they moved aggressively in ways that they were potentially fearful that they had crossed the line. >> hard to say if you're reporting -- i think i heard you say. if yao you're reporting shows that zuckerberg was sending out emails to say, if we have people that are potential competitors, we can always buy them that would fall into the category of emails i weish i hadn't sent and would bolster the case that there was malintent here, there was knowledge of forethought here with respect to behavior toward competitors. >> i haven't been a lawyer in a long time. i wouldn't say i was the best

lawyer in the world when i was actually practicing but here in this case, i don't think the anti-trust law requires that showing of malintent, requires that showing of you acting evilly what you're really looking at is a realignment of how we want to regulate big corporations. the sense that some corporations are too big. their size and their power and their desire to make competition go away is bad for markets as a philosophy i think to your question about what happens if you spin out instagram and whatsapp my thought is you'll create an enormous value for shareholders that are seeing it locked in in one company instead of competing against an instagram, creating more value for consumers, creating more jobs as both companies have to get bigger and competing more ferociously for the consumer for their attention and market.

>> thank you very much >> thank you for your time today. an aembarrassing day for fireeye. the cyber security group got hacked itself. details coming up next on "power lunch" with the shares down 12.5%. nex on power lunch with shares down 12.5% stach 12.5%. stay with us

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welcome back security firm fireeye is down. writing, quote, recently we were attacked by a highly sophisticated threat actor, one whose discipline, prigsal security and techniques lead us

to believe that it was a state-sponsored attack david, it's good to have you you actually commend fireeye for going public with this information because of its severity "the washington post" is implying it was russia, but what do we know at this point >> not a whole lot because fireeye is still in the investigation phase. sophistication that we typically see from these organized type groups lead to advance persistent threats from nation states like russia, china, et cetera we don't know for sure but russia would make sense because fireeye has actively been going after russia for a long period of time, both from exposing their intelligence operations, infiltrating critical infrastructure in the united states as well as a number of

different areas. fireeye coming out with this and being transparent about it is a good thing they recently released the tools that were stolen there, hacker tools that private companies use to simulate these type of attacks, publish ways of identifying them so they don't do any harm to any organization out there if russia were to use them against the world. >> right the nature of this attack, it's not so much that fireeye had information that was stolen. they had tools. >> right. >> and those tools were kind of stolen, and these stools simulate serious attacks on major corporate websites and that kind of thing so, what does corporate america need to know right now about the vulnerabilities that now exist >> yeah. when you look at these types of tools, they're designed to simulate what nation states would do the sophistication levels and the advancements that, you know, these countries have they have thousands of people, you know, billions of dollars of resources, trying to hack into the global economy, intelligence

gaining purposes, intellectual property theft for corporations to build defenses against this, private corporations build the same types of tools and techniques in order to simulate those types of hacks to build defenses against it so when you see these types of tools compromised, it means that russia now has action toes additional capabilities that they may have not had before the good news is that fireeye has come out and said that the tools that were taken, there were no zero days, which if you remember a few years ago, the nsa had a major data breach from the russian intelligence unit that compromised and actually caused a big issue where they shut down hospitals and things like that because of the exploits and the tools that were leaked from the nsa. this isn't anywhere near as severe as something like that, but it definitely enhances russia's capabilities and allows them to understand what private companies are doing to try to build defenses against what russia is doing, what china is doing, what north korea and iran are doing against countries they're hostile to, like ut

states and allies. >> right. >> reporter: for corporations and countries, we really need to continue to bolster our security stances against these types of attacks. >> and this isn't the question for you, but obviously it makes me wonder about retaliation, you know what the u.s. response is to this kind of thing what it might be in this case. again, first i guess we have to wait to confirm what we actually know about what happened, but to reiterate what you were just saying, it's not so much just whether this actor alone will have the information with these tools, but whether they kind of give that to other players, like north korea, like you said, or iran so, does it just suggest that -- i mean, this is a black eye for fireeye, because they are the cyber security company,the fac that they, themselves, were exploited would render them vulnerable, but at the same time, the exploitations suggest all the more need for new and sophisticated, and cutting edge cyber security to protect against these tools now being out there on kind of the dark

web. so what's a customer to do they have no choice but to use these firms even if they're vulnerable to being hacked themselves. >> i think you hit it on the head on the retaliation front, that several warfare, there's little to no rules when it comes to the games that are being played right now russia hacks into everybody and there's little to no retaliation. this looks like to be retaliation for what fireeye has been doing about exposing russia's intelligence operations around the globe when it comes to these types of tools and capabilities, they're absolutely necessary for us to have in order to help organizations, but when a leak like this occurs, fireeye has taken the right approach around releasing information on how you detect these tools the problem you run into is that russia has a very large and very growing population around sophisticated, organized crime groups, also known as ransomware you might have seen in the news recently universal health system that was hacked, garmin that was hacked and had to pay ransom

back they're originating out of russia, sponsored by the government they're making hundreds of millions of dollars and we can't touch them from an extradition perspective because they're hostile to the united states you can absolutely expect see those organized crime groups from a ransom perspective gain some of these tools to be used against us and so the warning for companies is, you know, we're on notice now to build better defenses, to withstand these types of attacks and our security programs need to be designed to thwart those types of attacks as they come along. >> well said david, thank you for joining us to break it down it's very important. we appreciate it. >> absolutely. >> tyler all right, kelly it's a very interesting day for stocks it began very much higher, but now are near or at the lows of the day. all three of the major indexes are in the red news of the hour, of course, kelly, is that 48 states led by new york are suing facebook for

anti-trust around acquisitions that they made years ago in the case of whatsapp and instagram and also the treatment of certain app developers and how they acted with respect to them. the stock, as you see there, down more than $5, almost $6 or 2% not a huge drop there really, kelly, but because i think a lot of people expected this to happen, and the ftc also filing a separate suit. >> nasdaq at session lows. we'll hand it off to closing bell see you tomorrow on "power lunch. >> thank you, ankly and tyler. welcome, everyone, to closing bell i'm sara isen with wilfred stock. the nasdaq down nearly 2%. let's look at what's driving the action in this final hour of trade. doordash surging in its debut as the market focuses on the next ipo today. is it the sign of froth in the market or next high-tech gro