forward for $2,000 stimulus checks we'll take you live to washington plus amazon buying one the last major startups with a podcast business details straight ahead it is thursday, december 31, 2020 and "squawk box" begins right now. glcood morning, welcome to "squawk box. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen andrew is out today. watching equity futures, and you will see that things are implied a little bit lower looks like the dow done abown at 2.5 points s&p up by about a point, nasdaq up by about 14 that

that is d and there are the fireworks in auckland happy new year, they are some of the first to get to say good riddance to 2020 joe, what does it looks like in times square >> it is raining and all blocked off. and it is totally empty. i got to walk down in the rain we pulled up and the policemen were there, new york's finest. and i said don't you know who i am and they said you have to walk in the rain. i said okay. i was told by people here that they were waiting for me i think that it is an april fool's thing but they laughed so hard at that, they said, yeah, that is not happening. you know what is cool? we're on this orb and i'm trying to -- i always try to feel that we actually do have meaning and

importance but i do realize we're in this vast universe. and because of the way that it is spinning, you have new year's come, you know, sequentially to people depending where the hell you live every year i think that that is kind of cool i know everybody r it it is obvs new year's now in new zealand. the way the grain drain goes i saw itimpsons, so it must be true anyway, i believe anything i read in the paper. california's governor reported the first case in his state of

this new variant of covid that was first discovered in the uk, the 30-year-old man hpt travead traveled just like the man in colorado officials believe that there are likely other cases in san diego county, the strain is more infectious but is not believed to be more deadly and is not thought to be resistant to the vaccines that we're introducing. and as we close out the year, covid numbers are hitting new highs. number of cases is nearing 20 million. and hospitalizations in the u.s. hit 125,000 for the first time yesterday. and a warning from the covid tracking project, don't be lulllull by lower case numbers during the holiday, they say that people in labs, hospitals and health departments who tabulate and submit the data often get to go home for the holidays so expect

a data lag they don't expect counts to normalize until mid-january. cdc says the death toll could hit 424,000 by january 23. and don welawn wells died from covid-19 complications played maryann on gilligan's island and a lot of other roles as well. but she was the every girl on gi gilligan's island as opposed to ginger who was the movie star as we all know. and there was always conjecture that the professor liked her quite a bit. and he was kind of dashing maybe a little bit -- what with would you call him, middle aged? but the professor and -- >> when i was young and i watched it, i thought he was middle aged.

now, i don't now i think that he was young. >> and there was muffy, and i saw a lot of it. i don't know who to discuss you it with. yesterday i was trying to talk to someone about alice cooper and i got katie perry pip g i guess i should probably start with saved by the bell for most the people here. i think it was their coming of age orion -- mario lopez >> jammers probably. no, i'll tell you what i was going to say we'll do this amazon story so i look on my feed every morning. and they have this on twitter. they have the early look at the front page and this is what it said amazon agreed to acquire wondery in the latest move to beef and it ended there >> latest move to what >> latest move to beef and i was like, wow -- >> to beef

>> man, they are just -- i mean groceries and i mean, just taking over everything next it will be bacon. their latest move to bacon is coming up. latest move to -- >> i still don't get the beef. >> because it just ended, it moved to beef up its latest audio offerings and it ended there. like maybe the preliminary copy or something but i still have it on my phone. >> but you read it and you thought another industry that they are taking over >> no, there was no period there was no period. and i quickly -- i have a mind like a steel trap. i quickly dedeuce ededuced that beef up their podcast. i understood, but i thought that it was funny eamon javers probably doesn't think that it was funny. he has too much to worry about obviously. >> yeah, when you look at washington the efforts to try to boost direct payments to 20 240ud h$2

hit a road block and eamon javers has been coveringing this and he is joining us with more this seems like a foregone conclusion at this point, it won't happen in this congress. >> yeah, that's right. the road block is named mitch mcconnell. he stopped that bill from moving to the floor the democrats wanted to move the $2,000 stimulus check bill to the floor clean, which means with no extraneous material attached to it it passed thehouse, so they thought that it had a chance but mcconnell said no even though donald trump has been tweeting aggressively saying that he wants to see the 2 thoid sti $2,000 checks in the hands of americans. but mitch mcconnell saying no. mcconnell saying he doesn't see any realistic path for that bill to make it to the floor. of course he is the realistic path if he decided to do it, he could do it. mcconnell is packaging the bill together with two other things that president wants about tbut

democrats hit and makes the package a nonstarter what he wants to do is package it with a change in the law for section 230 of the communications decency act, that is that piece of legislation that protects tech companies from liability for things that users post on the internet you remove that, you kind of change social media entirely, the entire business model of it. he also wants to add an election commission to review issues of election fairness that is something that the democrats say they can't get behind because it has to do with an election in which they say there was no until fairness, there were no irregularities here is mitch mcconnell explaining why he is doing this. >> the senate is not going to split apart the through he issues that president trump linked together just because democrats are ofafraid to addre two of them, th rksenate won't bullied to hand out more money to friends who don't need the

help >> so with that, you can say pretty surely that the idea of $2,000 checks as you were saying, becky, this congress is dead a big open question, what might happen next congress once joe biden gets sworn in as president of united states >> and we had senator pat toomey on yesterday, republican from pennsylvania he has been on the record saying that he is not in favor of increasing the checks to $2,000. i think there are 47 republican senators who feel that way they don't want the money as he explained it going to people who haven't lost any income and maybe are making families that are making over $100,000 haven't lost any income, they don't want the money going out to those people the way he explained it is you got to get 60 votes and that is basically you have to get 60 votes for just about anything because that is the only way that you can do it without the filibuster kicking in.

and so is it always an issue that the democrats will be bringing up again for reasons like this? >> you hear a lot of that on the left a lot of people say that the senate is simply a broken institution because of the 60 vote threshold in the old days we didn't have filibusters on everything. some things were allowed to simply pass through the senate on a normal vote but now in this partisan era, senators are using that filibuster to make sure that they have to get over that higher hurdle and that means very few things are getting delight senate these days. it will be interesting to see what joe biden says about that he is a krcreature of the senate he knows so many of the people who are there. on the other happened, he will be president and he will quacwat get something done senators value the filibuster because it gives them power individually and that is why senators are important figures in washington, d.c. if you get rid of that, it

becomes more of a require stamp institution. and that is not necessarily that appeal being to swrid senating senators but biden could tell democrats what he wants to do. it all depends on the georgia race next week and of course those two republican senators have said that they do want to see these $2,000 stimulus checks and they won't see them. is that puts them at odds with their own leadership but allies with the president of the united states. at 8:00 a.m., we'll talk to senator ron johnson and his efforts to block payments that earned him the nickname of ebeneezer scrooge. hard to say that you don't give $2,000 checks out to everybody. and a question that we'll continue to debate >> i'd like to give out $1

million checks to even that is hard to not do either. so i don't know -- >> there is push back. toomey laid out a pretty good argument >> so that's the deal. we'll have former time warner ceo with a new opinion piece, they organize that thargue thate time to repeal section 230, but we should do it soon, but not now. that is tied to higher relief payments in the senate and here is their logic and i'll ask them both about this they agree that more regulation for social companies is needed but they say pushing through the changes while americans are waiting for relief is not the right time they will join us to explain it at 8:45. if they believe it, democrats could get the $2,000 and what they are arguing for in 230,

they could do it right now so it is like, well, we're not -- i don't know. we'll see what their logic is on why you definitely can't do it now but you could do it next months and we know what it is you can't do it now because the georgia senate race -- the filibuster, even if it is 50/50 if they lose both and it is kamala harris the swing vote, i can't believe that you would do something so major in terms of ending that. last time that they ended it for judges and -- they said that it would come back to bite harry reed and next thing you know, kavanaugh only needed 50 >> they upped the stakes continually in terms of using filibuster more and more frequently and each side likes it when they are not in power >> yeah. >> but it is to the point where

there is nothing that gets through the senate you would think that maybe they would figure out ways to do it themselves where they can find bills that they can agree on >> democrats could don't want to do the military bases ors whatever and we don't want to do the investigation into the election, but we could go along -- see, i'm not sure that they really want to do it. there are certain factions that want to get rid of 230, but not all. but it makes no sense to say don't do it now because you are holding back the $2,000. do both. you get the $2,000 and the 230 if that is what you want you might want to do is in a certain way, you might want to think about it and -- you know, got to be careful. there are gooses that have laid a lot of golden eggs with these great social media companies

and you know, you want to tread lightly whenever you are -- is this regulating or deregulating? i don't know >> this is regulating to a certain extent it is putting much more onerous restrictions for the companies that are able to say that they are just bulletin boards >> it is opening they will into what everybody else has to worry about and that is layers cois ln after you. the lawyers probably like it that is a whole new, you know -- by the way -- >> when will new arena >> and it was lovey, not muffy thurston howell called her lo v lovey. i'll start using it at home. >> for me? >> well, matt might not like that >> well, a term of endearment

that we understand but don't take it seriously. ♪ i'll be bringing in a brand new year ♪ >> when we come back, investing in the new year, we'll talk strategy for dwu2021 d s&p 500 futures up by half a point and nasdaq indicated up by 12 and for the year up 43%. later this morning, mark bertolini will be weighing in on the pace of ccatnsn e vainio ith united states. wich and ask, "w"" i see a new kitchen with a grill and ask, "why not?" i really need to start adding "less to cart" and "more to savings." sitting on this couch so long made me want to make some changes... starting with this couch. yeah, i need a house with a different view.

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welcome back last day of the year futures right now indicated slightly up. dow posted a record yesterday indicated up by about 2.5 points nasdaq up by about 5 of course it is the final day of trading for the new year bring georgia runoff and joining us is portfolio manager at capital wealth planning jeff, you tend to be a contrarian thinker

so i'd ask you can what do you think conventional wisdom is for the markets for 2021 >> i think that people are pretty optimistic. people have a lot of money a good year last year. we got the santa claus rally which i think played 55 times out of past 77 years we positioned for it we think the rally carries in to the new year and then probably the first week of january, i think it is you today for a small pullback >> and so if we see the pullback that people have kind of been thinking we might get because you market is so high, is that time that you'd be concerned or is that something that you would buy into what is your longer term strategy >> i think that we're in a secular bull market. i think we've been in it since march of '09

so i think takes timing for be buying >> so nothing that worries you even with prices getting elevated >> i think if something came out of the blue on the geopolitical side, it could derail the market on a short term basis. but i don't know how you predict -- they don't call them surprise because you expect them so barring something like that, i think that the market is going substantially hire >> jeff, are you in florida? >> st. petersburg, florida >> so not that far from georgia. so we're watching this, do you think the market thinks that the gop holds on to at least one seat or let's say the gop loses

both seats given what happened in the house, the shrinking margins that nancy pelosi had before the latest election and how narrow it would be. is the market comfortable with either one of those or does it seem that it will be the gop senate >> i think if the two democrats are elected, i think the market weren't like it on a short term basis. >> what does that mean, 5%, 10%? >> yeah, 5% to 10% >> that is all that is worth because they can't do that much? or it just doesn't matter? did you see what republicans would call tdraconian things

obviously some of the things would be not very friendly to the private sector right? >> i think if you elect both democrats, you are taking a step toward social police tick environmevir environment and the market might not like it short term, but longer term, it is a secretary could you are lar bull market. >> if we elect a sanders/aoc take k tick ticket -- >> i don't think the markets would like that. >> hey, sdwr jeff, what does ki fundamental bull market? what determines that earnings drive stocks over the long run you have low interest rate, you have increase in earnings. some people will tell you valuations are high. i would argue that valuations

based on where interest rates are, valuations aren't that high and there are people that are underinvest underinvested, there is $5 trillion on the sidelines here and before the secular bull market is over that money will find its way into stocks >> i guess the only question would be do you think inflation rises at any point >> i do. i think inflation has already started to creep up just a hair. i don't think that it will get out of control, but i think that the fed wants some inflation so i think that actual get a small dose of inflation here but i don't think the market will pay any attention to it >> not enough to make bond vesting look more attractive or treasuries >> if there is one asset class that is overvalued, it would be fixed income >> so what happens next as a

result >> i don't think that interest rates go up a lot, but i don't know how much they can go below zero which is where real interest rates are right now so i don't think that rates are going up, i don't think that they are going donwn, i think that they will stay steady state. >> kie >> jeff, thank you and a happy new year look forward to talking to you in 2021. >> right back at ya. all right, coming up, i mean why not, i think that they should be buying maybe the beyond meat, not the beef. i was surprised that they were -- that amazon was buying directly into beef but you amazon is buying one the last -- no, they're not- are-on last major startups in the podcasting business. nothing to do with food. it is podcasting which i'm told,

is that just audio or are there -- you don't get to watch? >> oh, come on, you know podc t podcasting we do it ourselves >> yeah, squawk pod. so audio only. as we head to break, here is a look look at the douf's bdow's bigges winners and losers this is andy, my schwab financial consultant. here's andy listening to my goals and making plans. this is us talking tax-smart investing, managing risk, and all the ways schwab can help me invest. this is andy reminding me how i can keep my investing costs low and that there's no fee to work with him. here's me learning about schwab's satisfaction guarantee. accountability, i like it. so, yeah. andy and i made a good plan. find your own andy at schwab. a modern approach to wealth management.

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♪ i wonder why i love you like do ♪ i wonder why for wondery amazon is acquiring it, the purchase price wasn't disclosed but the "wall street journal" reports that it was about $300 million. it is known for its gritty narrative driven podcasts that apply scinematic sound design t its podcasts and is this a great time to mention that we have our own podcast, of course you can listen to the squawk pod every weekday morning on your favorite podcast app. joe, we had a fun one last week that we got to do, taking a look at 2021 predictions. >> i don't like those. you know, there is people that like to do it just to say outlandish stuff and none of it ever comes true and they say it was supposed to

be outlandish. but if you are doing it seriously, you are bound to really have egg on your face believe me, i know from draft kings, if you are 51%, you are like the greatest person ever. >> win >> yeah, you are the greatest person so that is how i felt. you know, you have to listen to the sell side guys on wall street if you want to make predictions. because they have it down. i think that they go to a sell side school where this is how you might be able to keep your job by never really saying anything but by sort of pre-tending that you arenosticag yourself a way out i mean, what -- >> ease yier for our bookers. >> if you knew whether the market would be up or down, would you bet your life on it? >> no, i wouldn't bet my life on anything but -- >> what about the ten year, is

it going to 1, 1.5 or 2? >> the yield is going up i'd say up how about that >> are you sure? >> well, no, but if i had to bet, i would bet up. odds are higher that it goes up than down. but i wouldn't bet my life on any of it. >> we could have the guy on that was right all along and i bet you he is 2345is not -- >> going down, down, down. >> oh, god, i don't even want to think that could send yields lower, but you could come up have horrific scenarios. >> who would have a anywhescenad 2020 >> yeah, i know. what word could i use other than anyway that is my new year's resolution everybody else uses so >> i use it and i've heard a lot of other people use it a lot,

all right. all right. >> sure. >> and it drives me nuts and i say it >> well, we try. it is bad to just read, it is nice to be conversational and in conversation people use a lot of these. meanwhile, check this out, wisconsin -- oh, god, wisconsin defeated wake forest in the dukes mayo bowl. i've always head hellmann's. but anyway, it is what happened after the game that is generating the buzz. the badgers quarterback was dancing with the trophy when the glass football fell off its pedestal and smashed on the locker room floor. the quarterback later apologized for the fumble and guaranteed that will be the last trophy that he will ever drop oh, man, they make one every

year, right? >> i know, but that is so -- >> i know. what is -- >> 2020. >> wake forest started out doing pretty well, to be honest. and then wisconsin, a couple interceptions and then they just -- you know, i didn't know what to do with florida and oklahoma i guess -- see, in hindsight, that looks obvious too oklahoma looked like they should be in the playoffs i don't know if you saw 55-20. >> a lot of stuff looks obvious in hindsight >> it does and i need to know from you, ball state or san jose state >> you need to know from me? well, i'm partial to ball state because of indiana >> muncie, indiana you're right i don't know where is an hoe say state is >> no, you where thinking gary, indiana. >> i can't believe they wrote a song about gary.

♪ >> we're just days away from the georgia senate run 0e6, toff, il decide the balance of power in the senate and the market hasn't reacted much at all. and we'll tell you about the potential impacts that could happen based on what happens next week. we'll be right back. i made a business out of my passion. i mean, who doesn't love obsessing over network security? all our techs are pros. they know exactly which parking lots have the strongest signal. i just don't have the bandwidth for more business. seriously, i don't have the bandwidth. glitchy video calls with regional offices? yeah, that's my thing. with at&t business, you do the things you love. our people and network will help do the things you don't.

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we're less than a week away from the georgia senate runoff elections. it happens on tuesday. the results will decide which party controls the u.s. senate here to talk about the potential market impact, jim pethokoukis he is not one of the guys that -- you're really not. sometimes i wish you were when we have you on and you are supposed to debate someone and usually you are on the same side

as the brookings people. >> i'm driven andevidenced based. >> that is whatdepends the data. >> and don snyder, you know there are alternative facts. i'm sure you know that but i'm start with you anyway, jimmy, this is what we've been asking everyone. let's say that the republicans lose both seats and that it is 50/50 with vice president elect -- i'll just say with harris let's say she is breaking the tie. u would they really did some of the things that they were talking about, whether it is stacking the court or repeal willing -- i guess they would probably repeal the tax cuts, wouldn't they? >> part of them i think they would. i mean, i think it makes a big

difference who controls the senate i know there are a lot of banks hesitating on their forecast for next year a little bit based on what will happen so it matters. certainly i think it matters on taxes whether we have just continuation and perhaps extension at some point of the trump tax cuts or we repeal the individual stuff perhaps corporate tax rate goes up to maybe 25% or so. that is significant. a difference between getting another stimulus package with checks, with aid to state and local government and then down the line, a trillion dollar infrastructure plan. so i think democrats take those seat, we are talking about higher taxes and certainly i think considerably more spending >> so don, this is something we haven't really talked much about and i think that it is relevance and appropriate. you talk about if the dems lose in georgia, or if they only --

if they were to win one but not the other, whether -- i'm still calling it president-elect bipartisan vice president biden. wheth whether biden would be in position to wheel and deal with republicans to get some of his stuff passed but maybe he would extend the tax cuts to get infrastructure or something like that that might be positive for the market >> yeah, i think a divided government scenario is positive for the markets. and there is a big question as to whether if democrats don't take control of the senate biden is ready to cut deals. i think he is. i think that he is less i'd logical than barack obama and is prepared to makee deals. and 34imichigan mcconnel34i6 mi room open to do some deals in exchange for liability

protections. so i think that that is a natural time for biden to talk about his infrastructure plan. and then i think when you start trying to convince republicans to do some of the things that democrats want to do, i think one of the most obvious things you move towards is an extension of the individual tax kit which is cuts or in the near term, three major busineprovisions se expire so all of that are areas that it would make sense to compromise on but we have to see whether biden is prepared to do so >> jimmy, don said gridlock could help end gridlock. that is really what he just said >> gridlock is good. gridlock -- >> it could cause compromise >> right, gridlock will be the

compromise and also, that we have an action forcing mechanism here which is the expiration of some of those tax cuts which republicans would like to extend and of course president bipartisan wi biden will want to do something. may not be what democrats imagined in october, but it is not insignificant. >> why want to know what -- i mean some of the stuff that was imagined in october scares me a lot. >> i know it does. >> but that is taken off the table at this point even with manchin and -- do you believe m manchin's comments or will he get in line with some of the more radical things? >> a biden administration with this sort of narrow control are

going to do things what they do will be limited i still think by manchin and the arizona senator, so we won't get -- we won't get the democratic fantasy dream package. but i think that you will still get some tax increases, i will get more spending on sort of -- that said, i still think that probably the most significant economic event just happened and that is that $900 billion. that is a lot. >> it is a lot but it seems like we're selling for a really low number so you are agnostic. you are not saying that they are disappointed or not? see, i don't know you. you surprise me. right, don you know jim democraticmy >> i like low taxes and i don't want the "green new deal." >> that is a start

i think that we can build from that don, thank you we're building a base. beck when we can back, tech stocks had a greater 2020. can they keep up the pace or will it prove to be a bulebb we'll find out more on that next welcome to silversneakers, are you ready to get moving?

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enroll today at no additional cost by visiting the website on your screen. coming up, we'll talk about the proos pekt prospects for te sfok scktos. and take a look at the biggest gainers. spects for tech sfok stocks and take a look at the biggest gainers. tocks. and take a look at the biggest gainers.

big tech was a big feature trading in 2020. stocks like apple growing over 80%. what about this year what about 2021, will this all prove to be some type of frothy overexuberance or did they really earn these valuations joining us is gene munster, founding manager at loop ipos, the old record, and maybe we should put $99, maybe we should put that in today's dollars, but if you don't, 107 billion in 99, 167 billion in the pandemic year for ipos, and is doordash tech i think it's kind of tech. airbnb, is that tech palantir certainly is. >> definitely tech. >> that's not froth? >> some of it is, and i think some of the recent ipo class has

gone way ahead of themselves i think the companies like, for example, door dash, ultimately that's going to see a revision to the mean next year. i think companies like airbnb are going to really define the future of lodging. i think we're going to move away from traditional hotels. airlines are going to be impacted longer term negative. hotels will. i think you need to look at it on an individual basis, similar to how we should think about tech on an individual basis, and i think it's important before we really dig into 2021 to take a step back and look at 2020, and there's been this theme of the recent ipos have been a big driver of performance, also big tech that's no surprise faang was up 57% in 2020 the nasdaq was up 43%, but that really doesn't tell the whole story. i think you need to go a layer deeper you talk about apple at 83%, amazon up a similar amount, 79%. netflix, those three were up

75%, but there were lagerts in facebook and google. my point is simple, we think there will be a further fracturing of faang. i don't think we should think about a bubble or not a bubble, i think we should be more strategic. just to finish the thought, for 2021, the performance is going to come from apple it may seem tone deaf for a company to lead faang for three straight years i think that, in fact, will happen i think this has a track to 200. i think you're going to see amazon do well, and i think you're going to see facebook and netflix fade away as faang infrastructures in 2021. >> you're comfortable with a $3 trillion company? >> i am comfortable with that, and i think there needs to be, i think, it needs to be anchored in earnings, that's the powerful piece about the apple story is that's based on a 35 multiple on

2022 estimate. it's a year out there. but i'm fast forwarding the conversation to the middle and back half of next year, and we'll be talking about 2022 at that point and if the market can sustain the 35 multiples, i think that is not, you know, we're not talking about an amazon like multip multiple here. i think that path is there, and i want to emphasize two pieces to the apple store that i think are largely misunderstood. this is generally thought of as a play on iphone and 5g play that's good. that will impact the numbers in a positive way but this acceleration of digital transformation, i think it's powerful i think people working from anywhere are going to be arming up in the next 12 to 24 months, buying more macs, ipad services and of course there is a case for apple multiple expansion, specifically around hardware as a service, buying the mac on a subscription, for example, we believe that that's coming and more talk about auto is a big

opportunity for apple's multiple. >> elon, the model s was a cool looking car. the apple proto types don't take a backseat they could make a pretty cool car, and they've got a lot more money than tesla had to develop one. tesla up 700% and change apple 2.2 trillion, you're saying it could be 3 microsoft, and other companies that are well above a trillion but closing in on 2 trillion, so this is just where we should be. this is where 2021 should be. >> i think that it's wise to own some platform names. i think apple is the best platform name to own clearly i think you should also own this next kind of layer of tech leadership we have talked about this in the past whether it's, you know, something around real estate tech, i think there's a massive opportunity there. this is a market that we have

waited 20 years to be disrupted. still hasn't happened. zillow owns the top of the funnel still a relatively small company, a $30 billion market cap relative to the opportunity. i think you should be strategic and start to find these other emerging type of companies as well i think that's going to have a powerful impact on performance >> okay. all right. all right. there i'm saying all right, becky, i said it like six times. thanks, gene, we'll all know in a year how your forecasts are, every year thanks, though, we appreciate it happy new year. >> happy new year. when we come back, we'll get the latest out of washington we're going to be talking stimulus, georgia senate races and much more with mike allen of axios. plus, the last piece of economic data that we'll receive in 2020. we've got the jobless claims numbers out at 8:30. ahead of that, the futures up w bhtly doupy about 13 points, the s&p futures up by 3, the nasdaq

up by about 19 "squawk box" will be right back.

good morning, everybody. it is new year's eve, 2020, and it's not an exaggeration to say that we are about to close out one of the most difficult years in u.s. history. covid-19 has taken an almost incalculable toll on america at the same time, it's been an extraordinary year for the markets. they have posted huge rebounds

set back from their lows in march: we look back at the biggest driving forces in stocks the flood of retail investors, the ipo surge and winning hedge fund strategy, and we'll look ahead to political and health care catalysts that we are likely to see as soon as 2021 begins i'll tell you what begins right now, though, the second hour of "squawk box." >> good morning, and welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc i'm joe kernen along with becky quick. andrew is off today. u.s. equity futures early on, most of the scuttlebutt, most of the financial process, yeah, last day of the year is going to start off in the negative. i don't know, as "squawk box" got closer and closer to 6:00 a.m., the markets, i don't know, it's just a good feeling as they started rising

do you think they have anything to do with -- i have delusions of grandeur as we know, and i think that people just, you know, okay, we're in the green we're up 18, we're up 20, and the nasdaq, s&p, 500 up as well. last day of 2020 here's how far we have come from the march 23rd lows. the dow has gained 67% the s&p is up 70%. the nasdaq up 94%. the nasdaq is on pace for its best year since 2009 but if it has a decent gain today, it could post its best year since 2003. i never got my tacos, becky. i didn't get as much as a t tortilla chip, a nacho i didn't get a hot sauce packet. i got nothing. we're up 67% i'm fine, i'm okay. >> is this the bet with austin, who are you complaining about? >> let's not get into it

i wasn't complaining about anything i said again and again on our podcast, we try to do our best sometimes, you know, we're not a general news organization. and covid has been terrible, but the, you know, there are times in financial markets and sometimes a family's financial future is not as important as health, obviously, but it makes a big difference, and i just think it made sense to take a calm reasoned approach that looked beyond the headlines that you're seeing day in and day out. and, you know, when it's very difficult, you know, in other areas, there are times where you need to keep your head, and i hope a lot of people were watching and stayed long or bought and i know that, you know, people said, oh, great, you're happy the market's up, and there's all of these people have lost their lives i know that's true and it's tragic, but it also matters to

people that for the family and for the financial future, you know, i hope they all didn't get shaken out of the market by the panic at the lows. that's my only point yeah, this was certainly a year that stayed in, you look at nasdaq almost doubling from its lows. >> you could have been in cash and not gotten back in. >> if you sold at the lows and not gotten back in. >> is there a big difference between losing all of your money or losing the opportunity to have a gain of 70% it's the same money that you don't have when it's all said and done so people worry about the risk in the stock market because it can go to zero, and you can lose all your money, that's horrible, but what about if you completely miss out on that, you know, the rebound in the market from those horrific lows. so that's what we try to do. sometimes it's hard and sometimes it seems callous you're not just updating the

death toll every day, you're actually talking about whether the economy or markets are eventually going to look past this but it sometimes, you know, that's what we're here to do to try to help people, for their families and their financial future that's what we did. >> we want to help you see through the headlines, and hear the headlines as well. if you want to hear the headlines at this hour, let's start off with california governor gavin newsom saying that a case of the more infectious coronavirus strain originally found in britain has been detected in his state this comes just a day after colorado saw its first case of this new variant newsom made the comments at the beginning of an online discussion with dr. fauci. he sees vaccinations leading to enough herd immunity in the united states next year that we could see some semblance of normality in the fall. however, cdc officials now say the that the u.k. strain could further stress hospitals that are already overwhelmed with covid patients right now, and they said another variant of the disease first identified in south africa may also be

circulating in the united states this all comes as president trump's vaccine czar, dr. moncef slaoui said the number of americans vaccinated by the end of the year will be lower than hopeful. 2.1 million shots have been given so far, short of the health official's target of 20 million doses by the end of the year a few corporate stories to watch, a hedge fund that owns the stake in tribune publishing is seeking to buy the newspaper chain. tribune's largest shareholder with a 32% stake in the company. it's delivered a non-binding proposal to buy tribune for $14.25 a share tribune publishes the "chicago tribune", the new york daily news as well as major papers in baltimore, orlando and hartford, controlling media news group, a company that owns around 60 daily newspapers, including the denver post, the san jose mercury news and the orange county register. jcpenney ceo is leaving the

company today. she was tapped to turn around the struggling department store but the retailers new owners are looking for a new leader jcpenney filed for bankruptcy in may. and brookfield asset management who have a big stake in keeping a tenant, an anchored tenant alive and running in their mall property joe. >> thanks, becky there's a potential $2,000 relief check for americans now in serious doubt eamon javers joins us with the latest from washington and then next week, eamon, i don't know, we're going to be talking about georgia, i think we are already, but i don't know if this may not be, you know, front of our mind as it is today. we may have moved beyond this to see what happens. >> well, right now, we're not moving behind it just yet. we're at this weird point now where donald trump says yes to the $2,000 checks.

mitch mcconnell says no to them, and the more powerful political figure is going to get his way here, and that means mitch mcconnell is going to be able to block these in the united states senate he did that yesterday. democrats tried to bring it to the floor. mcconnell saying no, there's no reasonable path to do that deal. of course he is the reasonable path he's the person who could put it on the floor if he wants to. he doesn't want to he disagrees with the idea from a policy and political perspective. he's going to package the $2,000 chec checks into an overall bill that will include repeal of section 230, the communications decency act, the rule that says tech companies can't be sued for libel based on things people post on the internet, a huge sweeping change to the way the internet functions president says he wants to do that he's going to have an election commission to review potential

alle allegations of election fraud. that package is not going anywhere democrats are frustrated they can't do anything about it donald trump is frustrated but he can't do anything about it, and the question is will joe biden do anything about it, becky, once he's inaugurated at the end of next month, and we just don't know the answer to that yet he said he views the stimulus that's been done so far this week as a down payment on what needs to happen to boost the economy amid the virus, whether that will include $2,000 checks after he's sworn in is another question, and we don't know if he's going to push for it or not. >> thank you it's great to see you this morning, and that's a question that we're going to continue in just a moment. in fact, when we come back, axios cofounder, mike allen is going to join us on the biggest political and likely market story of early next year, the georgia senate runoff. but we'll talk about the state of america's vaccine rollout with former etna ceo mark

berdilini. apple has removed gains from the china app store as it seeks to comply with obtaining licenses also amc is hoping to raise new capital to stave off bankruptcy, selling 50 million shares in a new funding raise. and end phase energy is going to be replacing tiffany in the s&p 500 before the market open on january 7th. mhs acquiring in a near $50 billion deal stay tuned, you're watching "squawk box. and this is cnbc see every delivery...

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. welcome back to "squawk box," the futures right now are in the green, slightly, up 16 or so the dow up, the nasdaq up about 22, and the s&p up just under 4. take a look at the small cap russell 2,000, up more than 30% this quarter on pace for the best ever, more than doubled since hitting bottom during the pandemic on march 18th wake up, leslie, we're coming to you. how you doing? who you talking to certain hedge funds coming up. >> my husband. i'm saying don't come over he's right over here, yeah he's making a bottle and i'm like. >> he's what

>> a bottle of what. >> he's making a bottle for the baby >> oh, okay. see, i'm beyond that i was thinking, okay >> you're thinking a bottle of beer it's new year's eve. it's new year's eve. start early. >> somewhere it's new year's day, which is, let's go. certain hedge funds were able to put up impressive returns in the midst of all of this volatility, leslie picker joins us now with some defining attributes of those funds. i know where you're going with some of this, leslie anyway tell us about it well, maybe, i know one guy who did really well, and i don't know, i have my own feelings about how that happened. but anyway, go ahead. >> well, those that did put up some of the best returns this year tended to be equities focused with a human at the helm rather than an algorithm and were often times smaller in size, interestingly. stock pickers had a come back year, according to hfr funds that focused on energy, health

care, and technology stocks are on pace to actually beat the s&p 500 in 2020. funds like tiger global, light streak, pro 2, d 1 and dragoneer have been some of the standouts. smaller funds did better because on a fund waited basis, the average return for the industry is about 7%. on an asset weighted basis, it's negative 1.7%. that's thanks in part to some larger oriented funds in the red this year. think of names like renaissance and winston. still, this could be considered a comeback year for hedge funds in general most strategies did actually outperform in february and march when markets became spooked by the pandemic shut downs. that bolstered the industry case, that could help investors protect their downside, guys >> yes, sometimes i wonder about the human involvement. is it positive

even on a plane, right, even on a jet, they fly themselves i like having two pilots, maybe four pilots, depending on the sides of the jet ai is not, it still hasn't reached humans humans are still able to do so much better than computers, right? what changed >> well, this year they were, interestingly, and part of that has to do with the fact that the way that these algorithms are often times constructed is they take a regression of what a market has done historically and they apply that to the various asset classes based on, you know, what could happen today, and that's kind of how they model these specific algorithms to trade, you know, today's current markets. well, in 2020, you have a once in a century pandemic. it's very difficult to model out how the markets would function in a pandemic since the base case is 1918 we didn't have the internet in 1918 the algorithms didn't know to

plow their money into technology stocks pause there was no historical analysis by which to really, you know, benchmark from so that's one of the main reasons why the computers had such a difficult time trading in this year, whereas the human stock pickers were able to take a step back and say, okay, well, people are going to be working from home, they're going to be using cloud, they're going to be using the internet, they're going to be using zoom, and they were able to invest more based on their gut and fundamental analysis of what was currently going on on the ground >> leslie, thanks, you need a cup of coffee or a toast, where is he? >> i got it. >> you already got it. he's hiding in the kitchen over here he's there to serve. he is there to serve, bringing home the bacon, and thhe is the to serve thanks, leslie. >> thanks, jeff. >> happy new year. we'll go inside the high-tech effort to safeguard vaccine doses nationwide from scammers

and fraudsters great. stay tuned, you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc time now for today's aflac trivia question. how hey s e rsavwathfit new year's eve ball in times square? the answer when cnbc's "squawk box" continues i had no idea i'd have to pay that. that's right. it's hard to know exactly what your health insurance is going to cover, so you gotta protect your blind side. aflac! aflac pays you money directly to help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover. really? aflac. get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover. get to know us at aflac.com.

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now the answer to today's aflac trivia question, how heavy was the first new year's eve ball in times square the answer, 700 pounds the current one weighs 11,875 pounds >> that is a heavy ball. all right, the biggest political story of the new year, georgia's senate runoff are coming up on tuesday with the republicans and democrats fighting for control of the upper house of congress the outcome could affect most of the items on president-elect biden's economic wish list joining us right now is mike allen, axios's cofounder, and mike, you've got a tricky job today. i don't know that anyone knows exactly how this is going to go down, but what's your best guess

based on everything you're hearing and everything you've seen >> well, becky, happy new year's eve on the doorstep of '21 so great to talk to you, and in georgia, people just are not sure, but i can tell you one thing that's true, every hour that goes by, republicans get more worried, more pessimistic, so republicans felt pretty good about georgia because in this off election, you have to be really plugged in to want to vote ahead or vote on january 6th, not even an off year election, and in that, where the tribalism takes over georgia, despite the president-elect winning there is still pretty red, so republicans said in the end this can be fine they're no longer sure it's fine and a lot of that has to do with the president. becky, there's a big strain of

thought among republicans that president trump is sabotaging this race. he has done so much to be unhelpful to those candidates. he's done so much to be not helpful. but i talked to republicans, and they look at what's happening, and they say, you know, he must be thinking i want to send a message, if i'm not on the ballot, republicans are in trouble, and interestingly enough, rahm emanuel, the former white house chief of staff and chicago mayor, he floated that theory a long time ago that president trump wants republicans to lose and that sure is how it looks more all the time >> just in terms of anybody feeling confident or optimistic about this, you know, we had nbc reporting earlier this week that the chuck schumer wasn't feeling incredibly confident about it either, and didn't want to tap big donors more money to go into the race the amount of money that's been

spent there is astronomical. >> that's a good point. >> nobody seems like this is a sure thing. >> that's a great point. that's based on that tribalism, that on paper you would say the republicans are the favorite, at least republican will win, which is what they need to keep a senate majority. leader mitch mcconnell, you know, that move with the democratic donors is telling, but that's the uncertainty, and republicans look at it and they say, like, everybody day, president trump is saying something that either puts those candidates on the spot or makes some of those, like suburban women voters that we need, i think on cnbc the other day, i heard them referred to as lieu li -- lu lu lemon voters, queasy about donald trump, but they're republicans in the bones,

interestingly enough, the president coming back to d.c. a day early and becky, what's interesting about that is the president is going to avoid -- i call those awkward conversations tonight at the massive mar-a-lago new year's eve party. you guys have seen how big that party is, and you congratulation him, you offer condolences, what do you say, and he likes to be a winner, and those are his people, very fascinating that he is avoiding those conversations. >> mike, how much actually is riding on this senate race do you really think that there's going to be a huge amount of difference because the market hasn't really budged so it either thinks that the republicans are going to take that or it thinks it's not a buying debi deal even if they lose it. what do you think? >> here's why it's such a big deal if democrats win here, they now

have the trifecta. they control the white house, they control the house, they control the senate now, those margins are so narrow in the house, much narrower than anybody thought, so much so that the house republican leader kevin mccarthy, very familiar to "squawk" guest, predicted to me in an interview for axios on hbo that he will be speaker in 2023, that they will flip the house in 2022 your increasing optimism among republicans about that, so that's how narrow that margin is, and of course like one senator can always cause trouble or have an effect be felt. now when you have maybe one, two vote margin, so all of that will constrain joe biden like the big, big agenda that he dreamed of just a couple of months ago, that's all much more narrow. but when you control the

trifecta, you can do a lot more. it matters for sure. >> mike, did you just launch the 2022 election coverage, i mean, did i just -- i think maybe you did. monday is too late to get started. >> axios has a tip sheet for 2028 we're always ahead >> this is like christmas music on july 4th, i think, but you know, that's what we do. that is what we do, and it will be >> and here's the point, here's the why it matters is that's what they do that's how all of these leaders are thinking that's how they're playing their cards. senator josh hawley of missouri, you can bet his calendar is on 2024 so we're channelling that. >> that's why the house is such a great place because you get elected and you don't do any governing, you start working on reelection the next day. that's why we're in this. >> for sure. >> you know, mike, i know what to get you, i think. i didn't get you a gift this

year, i'm sorry, but a pair of lulu lemon pants am i a lulu lemon voter, no, but i got lulu lemons on. >> that's an overshare if ever i have heard one i think there's a reason they shoot from the sternum up. by the way, joe. >> they're not yoga pants. >> he's not wearing yoga pants mike. >> they feel like jeans and they got a zipper that holds your wallet you thought i was wearing yoga pants? >> i however, am wearing yoga pants. >> you were the first re-tweet i just thought it was funny about taking a nap i would like to -- they're proud of me. i just thought it was funny. was that not funny. >> and you understand what i'm saying because i always feel guilty, oh, no, i'm falling asleep, and people look at you like oh, boy, falling asleep i want them to say, that's

great, joe you had a long nap but they don't anyway, thank you. you re-tweeted it immediately. that's when i knew it was going to be a winner it got like 2,000 likes. lulu lemon, mike, thanks, becky, let's go to break. i hope to see a lot of mike next ye year. coming up, protecting the vaccine how authorities are trying to stay one step ahead of those who try to disrupt a rollout. and mike bertolini joins us to react to america's inoculation mpgn what president trump's vaccines should be going better let's ramp this baby up. i'm here i'm ready today. stay tuned, you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc

along with the u.s. rollout of the coronavirus vaccine, unfortunately comes scammers trying to subvert the process. ylan mui joins us now with a look at how authorities are fighting back. it's a money scam. it's a get it early scam what is it, ylan >> it's sort of all of the above right now, joe i mean, the vaccine has given us

all a lot of new reasons to hope federal authorities say it's also created new opportunities for crime. immigration and customs enforcement tells me there are about a dozen open investigations right now into vaccine fraud, intellectual property theft and cyber security and that they're taking daily with the major drug companies as they launch the second phase of an operation they're calling operation stolen promises >> so right now we're number one, very optimistic that we have a very secure supply chain and administering the vaccinations and treatments. however, we're very concerned, also, that these transnational organizations and individuals are seeking to exploit the american public, and really seeking to exploit anyone financially. >> now, just before the holidays, this web site that appears to be a carbon copy of moderna's from the federal affidavit that sought to take down the site and highlighted irregularities in the source

code eventually they traced the domain back to malaysia. when covid hit, federal officials were focused on counterfeit ppe, and testing kits since then, they have made more than 200 criminal arrests and seized more than $30 million in a list of proceeds, now with the rollout of the vaccine, they're saying the immediate threat is just the straight up scam, showing over the long-term the big concern is the integrity of the supply chain back to you. what should consumers do, do you think? what can they do to protect themselves, ylan >> yeah, it seems like sort of the obvious answer get a vaccine only from a licensed medical professional. consult with your doctor there is so much interest and i think a lot of americans are feeling very vulnerable right now that there's almost a level of desperation that federal authorities are worried about that might have people trying to seek to get these kinds of medications from places that they wouldn't normally look. and as the vaccine becomes more

widely available, and from a variety of different suppliers, that's when they're worried that you're going to start to see people really take things that perhaps they shouldn't, and things start to fall through the cracks. >> that's a huge concern ylan, thank you very much. more than 10 million coronavirus vaccine doses have been distributed so far in the united states. but just over 2 million of them have actually been given out joining us right now to talk about the issues with logistics, trying to get the country vaccinated in a more effective way is mark bertolini, the former chairman and ceo of etna. and mark, there's so much that's kind of happening here it's complicated but it is disappointing to know that we have only put out just over 2 million doses when we were hoping to have 20 million given out by the end of the year. >> good morning, becky, yeah, it is, and it's part and parcel of the lack of an overall coordinated response to the pandemic, included

identification, testing, tracking, and now immunization and making sure that using that technology, we understand who needs the vaccine, where, when, so we can give it to the right place at the right time to the right people, and i know there's a data base out there, multiple data bases are on the vaccine. we need one that's connected to the response to the pandemic and our understanding of the disease's spread so we can target areas where we need to get this vaccine there sooner. and that's just not happened the federal government has taken a view that logistics is just moving it from the federal government to the states and let the states worry about it. i think to date, we have seen time and time again that that response, that approach, doesn't work >> is it too late to try and do one unified kind of approach to build up a national database that seems like something that would take some time. >> it's never too late, but we are getting to a point where we

thousand have a new variant of the virus, loose in the land now potentially two cases in colorado, one in california by people who have not traveled this variant, b 117 is now more contagious, spreads easier, and as you've seen happen in europe and a number of countries, particularly in the u.k., they are now suspending the second dose of this vaccine in anticipation of trying to get everybody at least somewhat immunized. that is a bad place to be. and we may be already too far along as a result of our inability to get this vaccine rolled out and administered into arms of people hey, mark i have heard anecdotal stories about seniors waiting in line all night, in florida trying to get the hope that they can get a place in line to get this vaccine not all of them did.

also heard the governor of ohio talk about how only 60% of the workers in some of these long-term health care facilities are offering to take this. i'm sorry 60% are saying no thanks only 40% would actually step up and say yes, they want to take it it's a question of not only getting this rolled out but trying to figure out who wants it and who doesn't that's a difficult task. >> again, that's the issue with just having a centralized approach and administering and targeting the vaccine where it needs to be when it needs to be. i have two family members. one in michigan, and one in arizona who have already had their vaccines delayed in facilities by two weeks. they were supposed to get it this week, they are now told two weeks from now this pace is not going to work >> again, you know, we had somebody who is from president-elect biden's

commission on yesterday laying out some of these problems but i didn't understand what the plan is to do differently they said that they were going to still let the states run things but there would be a more centralized approach, but that's not really detailed on any way, shape or form. it doesn't give me a whole lot of faith that things are going to get fixed in the next month. >> i don't think it's going to be a quick solution. i think what needs to happen is they have to stand back and look at the database, look at what information is available at the federal level, understand how to pull it all together as quickly as possible. now, the great news here, just like we have great pharma companies that have developed vaccines for us, we also have great logistics companies that could come in and help us build the database, instead of the federal government building it if you look back at the roll out of the aca, we had all sorts because the government wanted to build it themselves.

i think with e need to tue needs companies, what can you do to give us the kind of technology crow ne you need to manage this process and move quicker i'm in the same place you are, i'm very nervous that we're not going to get this out quick enough, and we're going to have a lot more cases, a lot more full icus and hospitals, and a lot more deaths. >> here's my question, you think you could get that database built and put together before -- we keep hoping there's going to be a point where there's more vaccines around than there are people who want to take it you know, we keep hoping there's going to be a glut of vaccines by next spring sometime if you get j and j also getting theirs approved if astrazeneca's vaccine is approved in the united states. what do you think? >> think about this, multiple vaccines with multiple regimens, the pfizer vaccine is three

weeks, give or take four days. the moderna vaccine is four weeks. some vaccines will be only one shot and so who do we know gets what when and how do we get the follow up done to get the second dose for people that need it to the place at the right time to administer it, and how do we know it happened we can have people out there partially or not appropriately immunized walking around thinking that they are and that's, again, why we need to do this, and so the more vaccines we have, the more complicated the problem, multivariant the problem i think that is something that has to be -- and i think we can do t. we have companies that do this all the time. i have worked with them, and i believe if we call on them and their ceos and get them in the room and say how can we make this work together, this can be done quickly. >> what companies, you say logistics, and i think fedex and ups, but obviously this is much more complicated than just getting the shipments there,

it's tracking everybody in the data base too. >> there are companies like salesforce, smaller companies like bright insight working in the fapharma industry all have e capability to figure this out, microsoft. >> what about etna think of the companies that do cover a lot of people obviously the uninsured people wouldn't be covered by things like that. can you start putting this out in networks, making it easier for consumers to navigate. the more you talk about this, the more i realize it's impossible to even get a test easily do you want to make sure you have done the right rules for the vaccine. that's a complicated set of issues. >> the problem with insurance companies is we only have a snapshot view of some of the population, not all of it, and unfortunately the population moves around the easiest part of the process should be inoculating people in nursing homes. they're not going anywhere

we know where they are, what room they're in, what bed they're in yet we can't seem to get that done that should be the easy part, so i think we have to turn to larger logistics companies, companies that have databases that can manage this kind of work, that can look at a holistic view. i think we need the insurance companies to work with us. i don't think anyone in the insurance company can handle it on their own. >> have you had any conversations with the existing administration or the incoming administration about the robs and the solutions that you see >> no, i have not. definitely not with the current administration, and, you know, i have had some conversations with the incoming administration, but thai they've got their hands full trying to get a transition in place right now. >> again, the reason it doesn't give me a whole lot of hope that anything is going to change anytime soon, mark.

>> i'm in the same place you are. this should be like our first priority as a nation when we look at what is happening in the health care system, the health care system's financially strained with capacity and overflow around covid. they're not getting the margins they had in the past, and particularly public hospitals, hospitals run by state and local governments are going to be particularly hard pressed. when you look at that and the strain on staffing, and not all the staff is getting the shots they need, the vaccines they need, you now have a huge problem building inside the health care system around delivering just the basic care and when you look at the general population, and the fact that they're not getting access to their doctors with follow up care, those with chronic morbidity are worse. and those on the edge, prediabetics, people with, you know, oncoming cardiac disease

are the perfect hosts to spread this disease it's the perfect storm the more people that develop chronic comorbidities, it's as if this disease was made for the american public by virtue of the way it's spreading and the people it's attacking. we have to get the system straight this should be number one. this should be like world war iii, and we should be all over this with the best minds in the country, not just on the pharma side but more importantly on the technology side to get everybody inoculated as quick as possible. and i don't feel that either at this point in time. >> mark, i wish you happy new year, but on that note, i hope you'll come back next year soon and give us maybe a little bit of updates maybe we'll hear back from progress being made. these are the early days we hope we can step up the pace. mark, it's good to see you.

>> good to see you, becky. happy new year. >> you too. coming up, we take stock of a spectacular year it says here in the market the private corner of the ipo world went red hot in 2020 spectacular. becky, someone, i don't know, i just read and next hour, don't miss a special interview with former time warner ceo jeff yukas and jeff sonnenfeld on why section 230 of the communications decency act should be repealed but not right now. no, no, no, not now. trump's still president. anyway, stay tuned, "squawk box" will be right back.

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adyen. business. not boundaries. still to come this morning, why investors couldn't get enough exposure to high ipos and spacs this year, and whether we can expect a sequel to that story in 2021. stay tuned you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc

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pandemic did little to slow down the frenzy in the ipo market you could argue it helped to some extent with easy money and the fed. investors piled into public offerings at a record rate with a big boost from aspects there were 281 ipos in 2020. 66 of them have doubled as of today. there have been 248 spac ipos this year, last year only 90 joining us is j.j.kinnehan,

chief market strategist, very little is everything is great, j.j., but is this a manifestation of easy money looking for a home or how quickly technological advances are being made right now, and they have talked about that the time between advances, you can plot that log rhythmically going back millions of years, is it justified with the technology that we're seeing or is it easy money? >> i think it's more of the latter than the former you know, part of it being, joe, you know, as you talk about every day, low interest rates. people are looking for something else to do with their money. you know, the markets had this incredible rally as it still is the best game in town, and so with that how do you take that to the next step because of the

technological advancements that are going on, and companies maybe not wanting to wait quite as long to go through the ipo process. with all of that said, joe, spacs are incredibly interesting overall, but if i look at them from a retail perspective through our client's eyes so to speak, the ipos of names being no still tend to dwarf the spac market overall for a couple of religious. spacs are fairly new people don't understand them overall, and number two, i'll call it, you know, the 1 in a hand beats two in the bush type thing. if i come to market with something like draftkings or door dash, you know the name, the product. with a spac, you're coming with we are going to do something and it's a little bit tougher to get your arms around it. >> you can make the case if you take the internet or an amazon

or information technology or just anything computer aided, computer aided design, the computer aided design of new software, then you add in biotechnology and sequencing and automation, and the convergence of i.t. with that, in the last 30 or 40 years, have you seen things like this there is some justification for these things being worth trillions of dollars, some of these companies. >> yeah, i mean, there's no question about it, the advancements have been absolutely incredible and, not only that, i think one of the things people like about spacs is, you know, it's very difficult for people to understand some of these, particularly as you talk about and your background, the biotechnology et cetera that goes on there. so with that, you're bringing in experts that are worthwhile to get to the market today compared to those that are like not quite yet, let's work on this a little bit longer until we have a

product that's more marketable and useful to everybody if we use biotech in the medical field and people at large. with that, i think there's also a little bit of a sorting process that's going on because of spac, that in the long run is going to help people theoretically, you have very intelligence people running many of these spacs that hopefully can understand these products in a way that helps, you know, as they say, separate the weak from the chap or whatever so the products that make it to market will be much more useful in a more immediate fashion. >> my whole argument sounded like it's different this time, and i guess if things get tighter, fed goes the other way, i guess there will be some effect anyway, we'll watch 2021, j.j., and we'll see you. happy new year probably see you >> happy new year, joe, good to see you buddy. >> good to see you, beck >> thanks, joe when we come back, we're going to ask wisconsin senator ron johnson to explain his

opposition to $2,000 stimulus checks for americans, and why he voted no othn e latest massive coronavirus relief bill. we've got a lot more to talk to him about too, stay tuned, you're watching "squawk box. this is cnbc no one likes to choose between safe or sporty. modern or reliable. we want both - we want a hybrid. so do banks.

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good morning, breaking news this hour. we'll get our final read on jobless claims before the new year we'll talk about the closed businesses and furloughed workers waiting for the stimulus money to hit their account. and senator mitch mcconnell has linked higher relief checks to social media regulations. former time warner ceo jeff bewkes say reform is needed on the front but now is not the time he'll explain in just a little bit. the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now ♪ good morning, and welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc. people are really excited about the 8:00 hour of "squawk box." they didn't really need to do

this that's not about us. isn't everything that's sydney australia and ringing in 2021. >> happy new year. >> somewhere if you do the math on 8:00 a.m. east coast team, it puts us in january 1st down there, i guess i think that opera house was a good idea, unmistakable where you're looking, right, becky anyway, i have been thinking, i'm joe kernen, by the way, along with becky quick andrew is off today. it would be nice if 2020 just ended and 2020 just started but i have a feeling that, you know, we're kind of just going to move into the same old same old i mean, we know that it's just a calendar it's just a date. >> we're taking these problems with us. >> apparently we are but it still feels good to maybe put 2020 in the past wow. that's great

so this will be the last one for us "squawk on the street" has to take them out. who's next i wouldn't need a map to do that americans are set to start receiving $600 stimulus checks, senate something, senate, it's the senate, it's the u.s. senate oh, senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell, thank you so much says there's no realistic path to quickly pass. with us now is wisconsin senator ron johnson. good to see you this morning i want to specifically understand what your objection is this this it could be it's such a big number to saddle our children with that you don't want to do it or it could be that it's going to people, you know, that haven't been as impacted it's not targeted enough to the right people let's say there was a way to get that 2,000 just to the people that were really in need

would you be for it at that point, or you just would be against it because of adding to the deficit no matter what >> you have explained the reasons. it's not targeted. it's add another $464 billion on to our enormous debt that's out of control and unsustainable the fact we have had nine months to take a look at what happened with the last stimulus checks. 18% was spent on essential items, the rest on nonessential items or paying off debt or additional savings, so it certainly wasn't stimulus. i want to help people that are financially struggling because of covid, one of the reasons i voted for the $2.2 trillio $2.2n c.a.r.e.s act. we have authorized $4 trillion of aid, and we did it in a shotgun approach 27 1/2 million dollars in debt by the end of the fiscal year, over $29 trillion, and i keep hearing $2,000 checks. if you have a family of four, it

will be an $8,000 check. family of five, $10,000 check, and many many of those individuals have been working, getting a paycheck, not financially struggling why would we be giving checks to people who truly don't need it we should have gone back to the drawing board, targeted this relief a family of four is going to get $2,400 in the relief bill that was passed, a $900 billion relief package again, it's just the lack of targeting, the lack of thoughtful consideration given to mortgaging our children's future by another $464 billion i know it sounds good, it feels good to give away money. everybody loves benefits somebody has to be thinking about the effect of this on our future generations. >> the case has been made that we need to, the fed politicians, policy makers need to do more and not necessarily worry

exactly where it needs to go but sort of as you said use the shotgun approach is it better to air on the side of frugality when someone people will not be helped or better to maybe worry about this, you know, we're hearing a lot about that, let's worry about this later, we can run deficits. >> people already will get $600 checks individually, $2,400 for a family of four if you're unemployed, you get $300 to your state unemployment benefits we're throwing $300 billion into ppp loans so those businesses can keep people employed we're throwing money at the problem and not paying any attention whatsoever to the mounting debt that's simply unsustainable. >> the journal has been really sort of angry at i don't know whether you can call op-ed people angry they don't like the president's move here. they think it might be

sabotaging what happens down in georgia with the way it's played out. what are your feelings on, you know, whether the president has actually hurt the republican senators' reelection chances down there what exactly is going on, and i have heard rumors you said some things that you feel like you're in a tough spot defending the president but maybe there's times you don't think it's necessarily the right thing to be doing i don't know whether those reports were true. >> they weren't. >> they weren't true >> no, it was a phone call i made to somebody who was an anti-trumper and had a 30 minute argument, and the guy writes an article about it i wouldn't believe a word he said anyway, the bottom line is the politics, this is kind of hard to sort out from my standpoint, we absolutely have to win those two georgia senate seats or what democrats will do to the united states senate, they will change it forever, get rid of the filibuster, which means they

will pass every bill on bernie sanders and aoc's wish list. they'll pack the supreme court, they'll pack the u.s. senate, they'll turn d.c. and puerto rico to states, four more a democrat senators. they will change every rule, violate every norm, every precedent to maintain power. it's a dangerous step we would be taking if we lose the senate seats. >> you work with joe manchin, right? >> yes, i do. >> when he says he's not going to go for some of those more radical ideas, do you take him at his word or do you think he's -- do you think if he had enough pressure from his party that -- because a lot of people -- some people even say the stock market is taking sol l -- solace in some of his comments. >> the pressure would be enormous i don't think people can even begin to understand the pressure on joe manchin if he were the hold out in eliminating the fill buster and preventing the green

new deal being passed. he may mean it i'm not sure he could withstand the pressure, honestly it's not worth taking the chance, let's put it that way. >> trump won west virginia by like 800 points, didn't he how could manchin, after making that process, how could he go back to his constituents at that point? >> it's not just about getting reelected. >> it's not? >> it's about the viciousness and the threats that come in modern day politics. it's incredibly unfortunate. it's one of the problems that i have certainly perceived, one of the reasons i held a hearing on election irregularities, it's an unsustainable state of affairs where you have such a large majority of the american population first for the last four years, not agreeing that the 2016 result was legitimate now you've got on the other side, tens of millions of people not believing this election result was legitimate. our politics are poisonous today. it's an unsustainable state of

affairs. >> senator o'malley has said he's going to object to the certification -- senator hawley has said he's going to object to the certification of the electoral votes next week. at that point you as a senator will be required to go through the debate for a couple of hours and vote on whether you think all 50 states, electoral college votes should be certified. how will you vote? >> first of all, this is done in a state by state basis, as i keep trying to tell people, there's a lot of misinformation. some people on our side think just one house member, one senator objects it immediately goes to a vote of the states and then because we have more states in the house of representatives, trump can get reelected. that's not what happens. every member of the senate, every member of the house votes to accept or reject that state's slate of electors. i can't imagine any scenario in which any house democrats will vote to reject joe biden elector. i think the result is inevitable

i don't have a problem as i demonstrated in holding a hearing on the irregularities of the 2020 election of examining those, discussing them i support what leader mcconnell says is a commission set up to examine this there are irregularities that have not been explained. i don't fear information i know a lot of people say this is dangerous it's not dangerous to take a look at problems that did occur, the lack of transsrparency in to many places, the lack of an audit trail. we need to examine, and hopefully set new rules and laws for the next election. this is an unsustainable state of affairs in the body of politics. >> looking at things and deciding to change it for the next election is one thing, but my question was would you vote no on any state to any certify their electoral college results for this election? >> one of the things i have been trying to do since i announced my hearing three weeks ago is we have been looking at these irregularities, we have explained many, haven't explained others

i don't know what new evidence is going to be coming up between now and the 6th. i have a hard time believing there's going to be something earth shattering but it completely depends on which states and what the issues are in terms of what is being objected to. >> senator -- go ahead, beck, you want to get him to say something. go ahead. >> i guess it's a maybe, you'll see if there's anything that comes up between now and then, and then you'll decide if you vote to certify the electoral college on a state by state basis. >> on a state by state basis in terms of what the issues are and there are real serious issues in states like pennsylvania where apparently the voter rolls arenot being reported by the counties ten weeks later, a lack of transparency, there are other issues that i can't get to the bottom of and we have been looking into this very, you know, we have really been looking into this. it's hard to get to the bottom of it. there's a lack of transparency,

that's what is frustrating, they're not getting the answers. they have completely lost confidence in the mainstream media, the social media, the incredible bias, and there's this feeling that the election was stolen it's not fair, there's all kinds of fraud, and chris krebs said he was only talking about cyber attacks, he wasn't talking about fraud all of his comments were taken as this is a clean election it wasn't a totally clean election let's be honest and not be afraid of gathering information and making things right. >> just as a, to posit this, if it were a divided government, would you at that point expect republicans and democrats to start horse trading, many get -- republicans want to extend the tax cuts democrats want infrastructure. do you think it could work at that point or it sounds like you

don't want to spend money on anything if you don't have to. what about infrastructure. >> we witnessed $4 trillion of bipartisan allocation. i don't think we had to allocate $4 trillion to address the covid crisis i supported $2.2 trillion that we did fast, we did it masterfully so that markets wouldn't collapse. we had to do that. i don't think even at that point in time, it had to be $2.2 trillion. we had another $900 billion and people are talking about $460 billion like this monopoly money, it's not. this is a mortgaging of our children's future. there is going to be a point in time when we have a debt crisis, and it's not going to be pretty. here in washington, d.c., it's like nobody cares. i came in 2011, our debt was $14 trillion now it's basically doubled and there's no end in sight. somebody has to be concerned about it we ought to be worried about it, husbanding our resources and when we do spend money and

deficit spend, we better do that quite carefully, and nobody is right now. it's a very sad state of affairs. >> we're going to talk to section 230 a little bit later switching topics again what do you think we should do as leader mcconnell put it into the calculus of this latest negotiation for the $2,000 do you think next year something happens with that, will that be bipartisan. >> the social media companies have amassed too much power. the section 230 has two parts, one needs to be retained, giving them liability protection from people that upload data on to their platforms. and by the way, i think they do a pretty good job of censoring like isis snuff videos and those types of things, and we should let them do that other part of that is their moderation policies, and basically their censorship, they need to be completely transparent in terms of what their policies are on

censorship, if they don't follow those policies, they ought to be sued that's the section 230 liability protection that i would remove on the censorship on the moderation policies. you need to separate the two things and retain the liability protection for people uploading on to their platforms. >> senator, thanks for all the time this morning. >> happy new year. let's hope 2021 is a lot better than 2020. >> yes, we do, and we'll see you maybe in january don't make a lot of outgoing calls. we're going to be calling you. >> take care. >> see you beck. when we come back in the next half hour, we're going to be getting new data on closed small businesses and new unemployment claims. we'll dig into the $600 relief checks and how much of a difference they could make to people struggling during this pandemic. right now, though, as we head to a break, check out shares of exxon.

mostly related to natural gas assets exxon says it's benefitting from higher oil price, although i believe this is now four quarters in a row of declines for them in terms of profit and sion mey that stock unchanged at 41.60 t. stay tuned you're watching "squawk box" and this is cnbc alright, okay. how's that? is that how you hold a mirror? [ding] power e*trade gives you an award-winning mobile app with powerful, easy-to-use tools and interactive charts to give you an edge, 24/7 support when you need it the most and $0 commissions for online u.s. listed stocks. don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today.

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welcome back to "squawk box," everybody. and happy new year's eve take a look right now. you'll see the dow futures have turned a little lower, down by about 27 points. remember, the dow closed at a new high yesterday s&p is also a little weaker, down by about 3 points, the nasdaq is indicated higher, up by 9 1/2 points, and remember, the nasdaq for the year is up 43%. up more than 90% from the lows it set back in march also, check out shares of tesla, hitting a high in the premarket trade. climbing above $700 after an eye popping run this year. when we say eye popping, we mean it,up 740% for the year. a hedge fund that owns a big stake in tribune publishing is seeking to buy the newspaper chain. ogden global capital is tribune's largest shareholder with a 32% stake

it's delivered a nonbinding proposal to buy tribune for $14.25 a share joe. thanks, beck i thought tesla topped out when it got added to the s&p. that's what everybody said new highs. coming up, new data on just how many of america's small businesses are shuttered right now. we'll talk about what that means for workers in the economy next. and later, former time warner ceo jeff bewkes, and jeff sonnenfeld, why they say now isn't the time to reform social media regulations but it should be done at some point. we'll be right back. stock slices.

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welcome back, everybody, main street is set to end a year like no other with a staggering amount of business closures. kate rogers has more hi, kate. >> becky, good morning this year has been an incredibly challenging one for small businesses all across the country. the u.s. census data projects that there are about 32 million small businesses in america but only about 6 million of them are employer firms the rest are solo entrepreneurs meaning they may have a side gig or small business in addition to their full-time job. using that figure, track the recovery.org projects that as of december 9th, 29% of those businesses are currently closed. more than 8 million to end the year, and over 1 million of them are businesses that actually

have employees that staggering figure is actually up from its march 30 low of 50% it remains to be seen how many are open and how many are permanent. revenues are down 30% from the beginning of the year. there's a bright spot here, and new business starts via employment identification numbers. those are up 40% year on year. >> there's still that american entrepreneurism that is still alive and well, and in perhaps looking, you know, to start something after the, you know, we're dealing with this pandemic when we get the vaccines and everything, they're looking down the road going i'm either going to get back into being an entrepreneur or maybe that's something i'm looking to try since i've, you know, changed my work environment a lot. >> now, of course the road to recovery is very long. we've got a long road ahead of us in the coming year, but that idea that people are willing to take on a new venture, take a risk in this environment, to me at least in covering this all

yearlong is very encouraging want becky, back to you. >> we have been talking an awful lot about the stimulus money, aid going out. when it comes to the ppp, does that give small business owners hope about their odds of survival >> reporter: so our own cnbc and survey monkey data did show that there was widespread support for a new aid bill ppp did come up and there was a lot of support, just over 40% of respondents said they wanted it. closer to 50% said they ranked those direct payments to individuals above additional ppp. i think small business owners really recognize they need both. they need the ability to borrow and have grants and loans, and they need consumers to have money in pockets to go out and spend and support their mainstream businesses. they recognize you can't do it alone, and you need those two things together. >> kate, thank you good to see you. happy new year . >> reporter: thank you you too. happy new year. coming up, our final read on

jobless claims for 2020. we're going to talk about people out of work, the debate over the size of stimulus checks in washington that's next.

welcome back to "squawk box," everybody. we are just about a minute away from our final read on the jobless claims for the year. ahead of that, the market on this last day of the year, last trading day, too you can see the futures are a little weaker for the dow, off by about 25 points, down by about 2 1/2 for the s&p, and the nasdaq indicated up by about 6.8. ten-year note looks like right now it is yielding, if we take and flip the market boards, it's yielding 0.928%. rick santelli standing by. this is not the year we were going to hit 1%. maybe next year? >> i mean, we closed out last year, you know, just shy of 2%

what was it, 1.92. it's been a wield year, and interest rates most likely are going to be going up we have been saying that for many years, not me necessarily this year, i think that's a safe bet. there's going to be heat in the domestic and global economies on the backside of this and i just think that the central bankers are kind of playing it a little too cool at this point when all of these stimulus checks, mr. johnson, i think, made some great points with joe on "squawk" and we are now waiting the last numbers of the year, and they show jobless claims, 787,000. 787,000. this is definitely a nice drop last week, of course, it was 803,000. it probably will get revised in a few minutes, so let's move on. continuing claims expected to be around 5.3 million came in lighter as well. 5,219,000 sequentially that we so far following 5.3 million

let's go through some extremes, so we can let you the viewer and listener get where we are. 787 on initial, how does that compare. the lowest read was 711,000. that's the first week of november the worst read was the last week in march, and that was 6,867,000. on continuing claims, the biggest number was 24.9 million, and that was many weeks after the peak of the initial. that was the first week in may, and the smallest level was 5,337,000. until now. because this week is the lowest read for continuing claims at 5,219,000. revisions did come in. they're subtle they don't really make a huge difference interest rates are hovering at a one-week low on a closing basis. i think the real issue continues to be that the all time low yield in ten-year notes is half of 1%, they are double that. the cushion is actually a good

thing. i personally think the worst thing for the country could we get any closer to 0 on some of these. becky, back to you. >> hey, rick, stay with us i want to ask you more about a dollar in a little bit, too. steve liesman is here. and we want to get his reaction to these numbers too steve, what do you think >> definite improvement, but again, the level remains scarily high, i guess, is the best way to say it. the 787, again, each one of these weeks we've had is above the worst week we have had in the financial crisis i think what looks like happened, and this is using other high frequency data that i have been following is we have a real slowing of the economy in early december, probably going through mid december, and i was reading a goldman sachs report this morning, it looks like some activity may have picked up towards the end of the month, and this might be reflecting that but you could also have a lot of confusion in here. remember, becky, we have this on again, off again renewal of the

jobless claims you could imagine some might have waited to figure out what was the story before applying. you also have some seasonal issues around there being holidays in here ultimately, all of this, this improvement that we have is going to be too late to really bear on the reference which was december 15th. and that showed a pop. that's why i'm reading a bunch of forecasters right now, becky, who are suggesting that we're going to have flat or negative growth for december. i'll dive into more of that on monday everybody takes the weekend off, and think about this on monday next week is the jobs report, and we'll be focused on what that says more broadly about the labor market in the united states >> got another couple of voices to bring in when we talk about jobs and stimulus, and what we can anticipate in 2021 joining us right now is john riding, chief economic adviser, and john hope bryant is the founder and ceo of operation hope, and john, let's just start

with you john riding, i should say, about what you think with these numbers and what it means for the year to come >> happy new year, becky, and let's hope 2021 is a happy, more prosperous new year for those on the -- who are currently on the unemployment rolls the weekly data, volatile, steve made a very good point, it's a holiday week at a minimum we used to track the four-week average and the average of those claims went to 836,000 from 819,000 there's no real improvement here, and as you said, the levels are scarily high. they're four times higher than they would be in a normal economy. so i think what we're seeing is a very difficult time in the economy with the virus pickup that we have seen and the slow rollout to the vaccination there is good news ahead, you can't see it in these numbers. the good news is going to come at the point that there's enough

shots in people's arms that we approach something like herd immunity, and that's probably not going to be unfortunately until this summer. at that point, people can get back to work in those industries where you cannot operate them in a socially distanced manner. you're not going to see that in these numbers, and i think that the economy is going to be in for a little bit of a difficult time over the next few months from the virus >> john bryant, you're on the front lines, talking to these small business owners, kind of getting a feel for how they're faring, and i guess that's the biggest question how much of this is going to be structural damage that sticks, how many of these small business owners aren't going to be able to make it for the next few months, until we know that things are going to be better. >> well, first of all, happy new year to you all, and thank you for focusing on this important topic. as you know, becky, before this started, 93% of all black businesses did not have an

employee they were sole proprietorships. in the middle of this they didn't have the cash reserves and close to half were sidelined by mid year. most jobs in the country, 58% come from these small businesses this is a five alarm fire in the black community. you have most people negatively affected by covid, look like me. you have one in seven americans who are experiencing hunger right now. let me say that again. one in seven americans are experiencing hunger right now. you have a disconnected conversation it's our conversation, the investor economy that's increased equities by a trillion dollars in 2020, and you have people at the bottom of the ladder who are in a five alarm fire i think we missed a moment we should have had that first stimulus pivoted to a long-term business plan. i call it the new marshal plan we have should have given people a thousand dollars a month to do

an internship. not to sit on your rear end. do an internship young person, this is the future now, give these young people who are not in these unemployment numbers, out of the economy, stop looking for jobs. not unemployment numbers at all, and you have seasonal workers that temporarily popped it i think we should give them a thousand dollars a month to do an internship in the private sector, in government, or in community, because this is the playoff games the rest of our lives, and give them a thousand dollars towards unemployment until this is over, until we have vaccinations in everybody's arms and the economy is showing signs of life again, because i think we're underplaying our hands, talking about basically a payday loan when we really need a marshal plan. >> hey, rick, i'll come back to you just because you brought it up a little earlier today. we are spending lots of money. there's a huge amount of stimulus and aid that's going out into the economy i guess the question is are we spending it the right away

>> exactly that is the only question. yo you know, nobody with any moral character would not understand there are people hurting out there, so to object to some of these plans, you look like the scrooge, but that isn't and shouldn't be the case. 5,600 pages, i question maybe the marshal plan is in there has anybody read it. we think in hindsight, we look back to all the things they did on the first big stimulus votes that they were actually going to try to come up with all of these creative ideas no, that's not what i saw. i saw a hurry up, vote, get the money out, you know, we listen to treasury secretary mnuchin say we'll do the best we can, but getting it out fast is a priority now we go back and say we should have put this in there, that in there, it sounds good. i will stick to my same comments i made during the credit crisis. the u.s. government and federal reserve are not good at getting liquidity at specific places what ends up happening is they

look at all of these people in need, they're like injugeranium out, half mile a away. liquid liquidity ends up in the wrong place, and the pork gets put in. we know what's going on here it isn't about helping people. it's about how much falls through the cracks and the fact that i don't want to give my grand kids 150 grand bill. i really don't i'm done >> go ahead. >> we don't have a business plan, becky. we don't have a business plan, a long-term plan for america's future the ladder is broken you have this disconnected sort of work force economy that's extraordinarily hurting right now, and you have the investor economy that says what's the problem, and you've got washington that's dealing with the urgent and not what's important. after world war ii, we had an apprenticeship for everybody who could work for a job for the

future you had a mortgage for a new home, and as much education to shove down people's throats. i'm not talking about pork here. i'm talking about investments. we don't need anymore pork in fact, i think we really need to be pivoting to long-term investments that respark the economy. but 70% of this economy, as you know, becky is consumer spending even the money we're putting in the economy for stimulus is going to go right back into growing the economy. we need a plan that includes in person apprenticeship. >> finally 535 men and women that could create a plan without ending up with their hands on each other's throats and i would agree with you, but that's not the real world we live in right now. >> rick, where was the leadership from the white house? i think there was a really good excuse. >> you bring it to the white house, you bring it to trump there's no real leadership anywhere, liesman, there's none

anywhere you hit your hot spot, and i get it you're biding your time being nice in the future. >> in a typical administration, a typical situation the executive branch would lead on this >> what are you talking about? >> the administration before this one >> you brought up the idea of -- >> let me finish here, rick. >> guys, hold on >> let me make a point i'm going to make one point. just wait, we just had a conversation can we have the five of us not have hands on each other's throats. let's have a serious conversation steve, go ahead and make your point. >> one quick point which is that the administration and congress are to be excused for the first round of stimulus. they did it in an emergency basis. it was perfectly excusable that there were inefficiencies in it. the idea that ten months later we do not have a strong plan and a targeted plan that gets the am

soft issues that john hope bryant is talking about that targets aid at the people who need it most, that is a much more efficient way of targeting that aid, instead of this talk about $2,000 checks or even $600 checks is to my mind inexcusable. i put some of the blame on the administration i put some of the blame on congress but the idea that we don't have a targeted plan at this point is what is inexcusable. >> i think everybody can agree on that. >> i think steve is absolutely right on that, and we know, and in these numbers today, there is a targeted dprgroup that need hp and those are the unemployed, and the benefits temporarily expired at the end of last week, and they will expire again on march 11th so we know we're not going to have herd immunity at that point, and a plan would have been better to sign the focus on those people, and that extended the runway for those unemployment benefits to the point where we could reasonably expect the economy to get back

to some semblance of normality and that is six months or so away, and we gave those people 2 1/2 months so that's not hard, rick, it doesn't require rocket science it's straightforward and we should have done it, and it was a major failing >> quick last point, then, from john bryant, and then rick john. >> so becky, the problem solvers caucus, actually republicans and democrats, is a great example of republicans and democrats working together, and they're the reason that we have the current stimulus plan. i respectfully disagree that you don't have people who work together the screening that has been done in the program is part of the problem. we've got to act like adults if we want people to be adults. watch how you live your life, it may be the only bible anyone else reads we have to stop with the screaming. we tried the public policy by the seat of your pants approach for four years it has not worked. we need best practices, not somebody'sed id

somebody's idea of the day >> i would argue that we have been trying this screaming match for longer than four years, but rick, what do you think? what can we look for in 2021. >> you said exactly my point, becky. the problem is that the most current crisis, we funnel all the garbage we have done, all the stuff under the rug and put it in the current bucket the reality is everything john has talked about is absolutely correct. we were talking about that in 2000, 2003, 2005, for sure in 2008, '9 and '10 we have been talking about it for decades. we sometimes throw real money. the real problem is education and personal responsibility. that's what's changed. we spend a butt load on education. go by any major high school in any major state, and let's ask kids who the vice president was last term, who's the head of the federal reserve. and let's ask some of the questions and see what the answers are because it will be very easy to see why we need to take care of people more because we have allowed them the

non-luxury of not being able to take care of themselves better that's what we need to deal with these aren't new issues and they aren't covid related issues, but when you have a crisis, things get brought up and i understand that, and we really do need to help people. it's a shame they couldn't vote on giving people checks as a stand alone bill obviously that's too adultish. >> gentlemen, i want to thank you for the conversation today rick, steve, john and john, happy new year, everybody. >> happy new year. >> sooner rather than later. >> happy new year. >> thanks, you too happy new year coming up, we're moments away from former time warner ceo jeff bewkes and yale's jeff sonnenfeld, they're going to join us to talk about reform for social media regulations we'll be right back. i just don't have the bandwidth for more business. seriously, i don't have the bandwidth.

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coming up, it's a hot button issue in washington, repealing

section 230, it protection for social media companies former warner ceo, jeff bewkes, and ffje sonnenfeld join us next why now is not the time for something wryou probably need to look at eventually "squawk box" will be right back. sales are down from last quarter but we are hoping things will pick up by q3. yeah...uh... doug? sorry about that. umm... what...its...um... you alright? [sigh] [ding] never settle with power e*trade. it has powerful, easy-to-use tools to help you find opportunities, 24/7 support when you need answers plus some of the lowest options and futures contract prices around. don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today. but these days, i'm not getting out as much as i'd like to. that's why i take osteo bi-flex.

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there is social or

moderation policies and basically there is censorship. they need to be completely transparent in terms of what their policies are on censorship and if they don't follow those policies, they ought to be sued. that's the section 230 liability protection i will remove on the censorship on the moderation policies you need to separate two things and retain the liability protection for people uploading out of their platforms >> senator ron johnson earlier now we got former tom warner, they have a opinion piece in fortune about section 230. they argue protections for social media companies should change, but now is not the time. they join us now to explain. good morning to you both we just had a couple of johns on, a couple of jeffs -- jeff b., jeff s., let me start with

jeff b. and make the case that at least to me, because i think there is a -- maybe i don't understand what you're saying. i think there is a flaw in your logic. maybe you think we need to -- we need more time to decide how to do this. because we know how many times there can be unintended consequences it is a major thing maybe to undertake and maybe we need some thoughtful analysis of how to do it and therefore i would say don't rush it right now. your reasoning, i don't understand, jeff b., could you explain it >> well, we agree with that, actually yesterday we don't think there is exactly the time to connect to these kinds of issues it ought to be carefully thought through and there is reasonable debate to have between reform and repeal the basic problem, which is not the one that was just talked about, is that if nbc news or

the wall street journal or new york times puts out information that is false, defamatory or fraudulent, they're held responsible for it but if a big social platform does that, knowingly, carelessly putting out false, defamatory or fraudulent information, we're not held responsible for and that's a real question as to why it should be like that the original argument was that internet platforms, 20, 30 years ago, could not be held responsible for millions of posts that we needed to store a vibrant online talk community. and that's happened. but today we're in a different position we have very large companies and they are knowingly targeting certain users, with certain content, monetizing it to certain advertisers, and there is probably a reasonable way to

hold them as accountable for false or defamatory information as these -- the way that nbc news is treated. so it has nothing to do with censorship all these platforms are able today, with 230 or without it, to put up any information or opinion they want. the question is, what degree of responsibility should they have? >> well, if it is user generated, jeff, jeff b. if it is user generated, you know, you're -- it is the pipes that you're asking to decide what they can put up and what they can't. number one in practice, too difficult. number two, i think i can handle it i think i can look into -- i would rather see everything. maybe not hate speech, obviously, but i would rather see everything and then i would like it decide myself, because

then immediately, now, the minute you get into this area that you're talking about right now, this is why we do get to senator johnson's complaint. and we saw it. we saw what social media did with twitter and facebook and the laptop incident, with hunter biden. they shouldn't be able to decide, one side benefits, exclusively on what they decide to censor and don't put on that's where you get into that issue. i don't want the silicon valley 20 somethings deciding what is true and what's not for me that's like the last thing i want >> well, they're not and -- >> they did. they just did. >> you have 230 right now. and these platforms are free, under 230, to suppress, lock, label, as you just said. the question is, as we move forward, if they're knowingly or carelessly disseminating false, defamatory or fraudulent

information, because they're clearly quite aware of what it is, they targeted, they monetize it, then what should be their responsibility and there is a very reasonable argument, i think you're searching for it for a reform program, that would walk into a reasonable kind of moderate position because, yes, there is a lot of third party content the argument to go for reform instead of repeal would mean there is plenty of small startups that we all would like to see compete with these giants and there are already carveouts in 230 for sex trafficking, for child pornography, we could have carveouts for false medical information, for defamatory knowing, careless, defamation. those are not legitimate political interests of the country. those are simply responsible

behavior in the public forum >> right jeff sonnenfeld, i don't know, the last four years i -- if we all agreed on everything, i could see how we could do this i'm not saying there is alternate facts, but there is very few objective truths that i can find nowadays. i -- i could but i just don't know if it is that simple. is it that simple, jeff? i mean, we go back and forth a lot about what is true and what's not and i love you, but some of the things that -- >> our emails went on air, we both would be out of work. >> no, no, no. >> and by the way, given the jeffs we have on the show, in honor of dawn wells, mary ann, you can refer to me as the professor if that helps. >> liesman is already the professor. just -- i don't want to be gilligan, but go ahead. >> well, actually, you're one person you mentioned gilligan who knew who major g. krebs was

and you remember the communications decency act of 1996 that jeff is drawing off of, which is a revision, of course, of the 1934 telecommunications act and the reason it was created was in fact to deal with certain truths and also to deal with certain risks, having to do with child pornography and things like that is that that was created for a certain reason nobody foresaw though the growth of the social media platforms. it was created to give some free space for isps to flourish, internet service providers and it is hard to believe 1996 we didn't have google and facebook and everybody else, we didn't. so this has been a big development. in terms of why now, which is your opening question, there is a reason why now and i think mitch mcconnell who is an old friend, but cynically is doing this for public relations maneuver, he knows this couldn't work, the house is out of session the impossible for this legislation to go through. the next time the house reconvenes, the next time the

show is on, since we're 14 hours away from the new year, it will be a new congress, a in hounew . he knows it can't get go through. just like the affordable care act, obamacare was imperfect and sarbanes oxley was imperfect because of obstructionist reactions in congress or the business community, if people work together on this, there is some very good suggestions that jack dorsey has, that has to do with the making of these moderators transparent and in terms of putting some sort of brakes on how many times you can recycle what's app, they're taking a look at legislation there, if we are going to come up with better legislation, let's figure out how to do it the left and the right don't like this. >> we got -- we're almost up again. someone really smart, i think spider-man's uncle, with great

power comes great responsibility we need to think about this. we need to think about it. the power that these companies wield comes with great responsibility and we got to get it right i understand your rational for not rushing it but i just was saying, if you could get the 2,000 out and do something you wanted to do, why not do it. i think there is more to it. jeff bewkes, thank you for coming on today. sonnenfeld, i know what our doing. you're sending me horrible articles on a daily basis. happy new year to you both. >> educating you educating you. >> yes, i need it. all right, beck. >> happy fu yenew year, everybo. right now it is time for "squawk on the street. we'll see you next year. good thursday morning. welcome to "squawk on the street." faber with morgan brennan and mike santoli futures as we head to the final