and i got out around 17. no knock against macy's. it was a trade at the time they can turn the corner but will take a while. >> josh, final trade, quick? >> uber. >> rob you got less than ten seconds. >> wd rotate into value, scott >> thanks everybody. "the exchange" starts now. >> lilly lilly, scott hello. welcome to "the exchange" everyone i am brian sullivan, shaking off limits robin hood and others cutting off trading for red hot stock. shares are collapsing and also halted and some are beginning to cry foul as those shares fall the overall market goes straight up as investors look past this and focus on the end of the pandemic and a brighter day as vaccines are rolling out at more than 1 million per day and more on the way is there really

a need for 2 trillion more in government spending and debt we'll ask white house adviser jared bernstein who is here. so much to do and of course much more on the entire robin hood soap opera all throughout the hour let's get all you need to know on the numbers and the markets and of course all of the hot stocks amcs and gamestops of the world. >> that's right, brian on any other day if there wasn't those types of stocks to talk about i'd be highlighting the fact we are green across the board, right near the session highs for the dow up 593 right now. at the highs we were up roughly 632 points that is important because we lost 633 yesterday by the way, i'm going to put a nice check mark here for the dow and s&p 500. with the 2% gain in the s&p 500 these two indices are on pace for their best day of this, yes, albeit young 2021 trading year the best day for the market so far on the upside. that is how important it is

right now. as you pointed out, there is so much attention right now being paid to just a handful of stocks out there and of course we look at gamestop. we look at amc we look at american airlines bed bath & beyond many of those on an intraday basis have seen very stark moves and just to kind of put things in perspective this notion right now we were seeing gamestop earlier in the session premarket we were as high as around $513 per share at these levels. $513 in the premarket highs. can't even really see them there. at the lows we were talking closer to 112. that is how wide this range has become so as we take a look at gamestop, we take a look at some of the other ones like amc networks, that one, american airlines, many of these types of stocks are doing incredibly volatile moves in this kind of trade right now. look at american airlines well off the premarket highs though still up about 9%. brian, keeping on those but let's not forget the dow and s&p

on pace right now for the best day of the year so far yes, it is only four weeks old but a big day for sure back over to you >> that chart you showed on gamestop is unbelievable what is it, 400 plus intraday move on gamestop 112 to over $500 like what, 350 or 400% swing in a couple trading hours that is absolutely insane >> i would also point out this i noted because somebody on twitter noted to me that over the last couple of days we've seen what some people call a sick sigma move. what it means is we were over six standard deviations away from the average price of that stock. what that means is that you're talking about 1 in like millions in chances of something like that happening so, yes. a massive move higher for many of these types of stocks it is worth paying attention to.

just how significant these moves have been to the up and down side, brian. >> truly remarkable. gamestop right there and gamestop is stopped apparently thank you very much. so all right, folks. this is kind of where we kick it off today. obviously the story that everybody is talking about, and i don't mean just in the business world sort of smaller investors versus big hedge funds and billion dollar trading platforms like robin hood remember, maybe for the little guy, but it's not the little guy. robin hood is partnered with citadel one of the world's biggest hedge funds and its founders themselves are indeed billionaires there is a lot of pain out there today. robin hood and the other platforms have taken the incredible step of banning certain stocks from trading. effectively cutting people off from being able to sell their stocks of course it has captivated the market's attention but for most of you nonday traders, longer term investors, your next guest says, don't worry. this, while interesting, should not impact the broader market.

joining us now is the chief u.s. equity strategist at credit suisse you know, we heard a lot yesterday that part of the market's decline may simply have been that part of your team or your clients sat back and said, you know what? we can't trade on a day like today. this is dominating everything. let's sit back and watch how this plays out do you think in the short term this is having a little effect on market sentiment over all >> yeah, it probably is. first of all, let's start with the fact that in a month from now we're not going to be talking about this anymore these speculative trends around these names and wild moves you're talking about is not investing, not looking at the fundamentals of a business where you own a portion of that, which is what stocks are really about. and so this is going to go away. if you look, though, at the move

today, which is a big day, yesterday, down big, they kind of net against each other and end up being a relatively modest down move or less than a percent from the all time highs which we said earlier this week on monday i think there is a lot going on here, a lot of noise people are making and losing crazy amounts of money but ultimately this is going to be a small, you know, small blip in what really is going on in the markets over a period of time. >> okay. by the way, some of these names were halted. now they're back trading as well so you're able to sell -- in the pause of course nobody can sell because it affects everybody if a stock is halted you can't do anything. these are certain platforms taking action. i want to make that difference clear. is this a knock at all on market structure, on overall market -- i hear what you're saying. this story probably won't exist in six months but for new

investors they look at this going, you know what we're new to the market. now you're going to shut down robin hood platform or certain stocks the game is rigged forget it. i was already skeptical in the stock market now i know, forget it. i almost said something else forget it. there is a psychology aspect to this. >> yeah, first you have to look at this and we're getting, listen, the phone is ringing off the hook with our larger institutional clients saying exactly the question you are asking what is this thing about i think it really starts with the fact that interest rates are zero when interest rates are zero and the government appears to be implying that they'll back stop the system, which they did by buying corporate debt early on and the commissions to buy into these stocks has gone to nothing, what do we expect to happen you expect people to take on more speculative behavior. you know, that's not a good thing. there is a cost to having a zero cost of capital and the government pouring money into

the economy and having it slosh around >> yeah. >> but the big, the long term story though is the fact that earnings this season are coming in like 17% better than estimates. that is a real thing and the fact that the economy is going to open up in massive, in a massive way in the middle of the year >> yeah. and maybe faster than that based on the pace of vaccinations and everything else. so longer term you're bullish on the equity markets as we all watch certainly how this plays out. jonathan, we appreciate your view thanks for rolling with the audibles there is a lot going on these days folks, if you're not sure how robin hood can offer something for free just remember they sell their order flow, their flow to citadel and a few others but primarily to citadel that is how robin hood makes its money. when something is free, always ask, well, how are you getting paid that is kind of the way you want to follow it let's try to tie all of this into the broader economy

fourth quarter gdp by the way grew at a 4% pace. week of jobless claims also coming in this morning claims did rise less than expected but the trend line does show that covid-19, the lockdowns continue to strain the labor market in a big way. joining us now to talk about this is a new kid on the block well, new to the biden administration's economic agenda, jared bernstein. remember the council of economic advisers congrats on the role i thought about we needed music to everything because i am a music guy. we should play "back in the saddle again" by aero smith. congratulations getting back on the white house team as well now let's fight. first off, you have a take on this gamestop robin hood controversy. does the administration or do you think the administration or the sec or cftc whatever it is should start to poke around? >> first of all i'm trying to digest the idea of being a kid it's been a long time.

thank you, sully when i was a cnbc commentator i would bite off a question like this and chew it up and throw it back at you. now i'm part of a big team and the key point of your question for me is sec. security and exchange commission it is their job not mine to comment on market movements especially daily especially individual stocks. the s.e.c. is on the case. and they'll be reporting in -- in fact they've already released a statement on this which i commend to viewers i think the important thing from our perspective is that the biden administration is looking past day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month ups and downs in the stock market it is not a score card for us. and while lots of growth has occurred at the top of the k-shaped recovery if you will we still have very significant problems with hunger, evictions, joblessness, wage losses for those in the bottom half of the k. so, yes. we're obviously always going to

watch gdp and unemployment but if it is not reaching the bottom half our work is cut out for us. >> do you think 1.9 trillion is still the number given we are seeing 1 million vaccines plus rolled out, that there is some optimism we can, quote, reopen maybe a lot faster than some of the more dire estimates out there? >> i think that is the right number and i think if you sum up what it takes to finally put this virus behind us, both in terms of virus control testing, tracing, masking, ppes you know, equally important and especially compelling right now production and distribution of the vaccine. reopening schools. making sure states and localities have the resources we need while we match this downpayment that occurred in the december package we know for example unemployment insurance from the december package peters out in march. there is no estimate i've seen that comes anywhere close to suggesting that that need will

be obviated by then. so this is an amply sized package to once and for all hit this thing hard and finally put this in the rear view mirror this dual crisis -- covid pandemic, the economy. we have to wrestle them both together and i think the package is up to that. >> i agree with that, jared. we all want our kids to be safe. let's focus on the schools anybody with a kid out there by the way is thinking about this we think about this 170 billion for schools. we want schools to be safe but i am guessing this money is for the next pandemic because by the time we institute new hvac systems and buy all the gear it is going to be years from now is it not you can't put new hvac in schools in the next three to four months >> i think the ventilation in schools will be important in the next three, four, five, six, ten months i would push back a bit on that. >> what is important now, jarld, i'm saying, is getting them

built. the vaccines, at the worst case scenario looking at labor day probably to get everyone who wants to be vaccinated because a big part of the country says they're not going to and you can't force them so you're looking at summer. >> look, sully the way to look at this is not as if you hit summer and a light switch goes from off to on this is much more of a dimmer switch play. and thus far we've kind of taken the advice that is implicit in your comments which is, do something. wait and see look, we just have not gotten ahead of this. i think one of the reasons why we had a negative handle on december jobs, one of the reasons why disposable income while up for the year was actually down in the last quarter is because we took a wait-and-see attitude on the december relief package. we just can't do that anymore. we have to get ahead of this with the magnitudes we're proposing. >> listen, i debagree.

we want everyone to be safe and spaced out, the cdc report on schools was promising. it came out two days ago here,the thing also, jared when you have these high level discussions is it yourself, are there others in the room who say, and this is hard to say, that is horrible and terrible as covid has been on the death toll in the united states we also have to consider millions of primarily under privileged children, first graders who may not learn to read because they're zooming in and their parents are essential workers. there is a second -- another impact are you having those conversations about years from now making sure this inequality and educational gap is not -- because by the way, that also results in earlier fatalities. drug abuse, incarceration, etcetera >> look, you're speaking, you know, precisely our language on this and, yes those very points are absolutely alive in the rooms we're talking about. part of this is distinguishing between a relief package, fiscal

bridge to the other side of the crisis, and part of it is addressing the structural inequities embedded in some of what you are talking about but reopening the schools with the biden plan which is the deepest and i think most scientifically advised plan to reopen the schools, is absolutely critical to get to the heart of your concern. every time a kid misses a year in school especially a young kid their lifetime earnings are diminished that has to be part of our policy agenda. but you also have to think about the care agenda. child care we have yet to stand up a reliable, sustainable child care industry in this country that's part of the relief package in a temporary measure but also has to be part as the president said of our recovery package, a more permanent child care set of interventions which by the way are going to have to be paid for. >> it's an incredibly complicated, scary story by the way, one that has no easy outcome. i think we all admit that,

jared. that there are down sides on every side and it is just impossible listen, i enjoyed sparring with you. back in the saddle again, jared bernstein. we'll have many more of these conversations as we go on. best to you and everybody out there of course. >> so nice to hear that from you, sully thank you so much. >> i'm not sure it is but i appreciate it anyway thank you very much >> i mean it from the heart >> all right thank you very much. coming up, washington has a message for wall street when it comes to the recent frenzy we're seeing, the populous are more powerful than you think. we'll dive into that from freezes on federal fossil fuel permits to the keystone pipeline and the push for zero emission cars. the oil industry has a lot riding on the new administration we'll look at the potential fall out with dan pickering coming up throw as we head to break a look at the biggest winners in the dow right now, intel, amex,

disney, microsoft, and caterpillar. overall markets up 2%. big day for the dow. 550. we're back after this. i made a business out of my passion. i mean, who doesn't love obsessing over network security? all our techs are pros. they know exactly which parking lots have the strongest signal. i just don't have the bandwidth for more business. seriously, i don't have the bandwidth. glitchy video calls with regional offices? yeah, that's my thing. with at&t business, you do the things you love. our people and network will help do the things you don't. let's take care of business. at&t.

welcome back on a very busy thursday

republicans in washington weighing in on the populist uprising over gamestop they have a bit of a warning for wall street. our guest wrote a piece on cnbc.com and joins us now with more great piece. i feel like there is actually a little bipartisan love and work when ted cruz, almost said tom cruise, ted cruz and aoc agree what world are we in >> reporter: yeah. fascinating moment on twitter right now when aoc tweeted her thoughts about robin hood and this whole moment. ted cruz agrees. aoc with a blistering response to ted cruz so i commend to everyone that twitter exchange fascinating moment i've been talking to some veterans of sort of the populist political wars here in washington who are watching this moment on gamestop with real fascination and familiar ill yart and talk about the similarities between what we're seeing there and the populist movement in politics whether the trump maga movement the past

couple years or occupy wall street before that one issue is the economic anxiety and rage out in society people are venting a belief that elites rig the system against the little guy. the technology that equalizes the playing field in terms of communications and ability to participate in ways that didn't exist before the meme-ification of the message. the ability of some of these messages to go viral and attract a much bigger crowd than they otherwise could. a sense of nostalgia for a better time. in the same way maga was make america great again a longing for an earlier era there is a sense of that, too, among some people i talk to with gamestop and longing for the stocks of their youth in a pre-covid era in which things were more normal there is definitely a distrust of the media present company absolutely included since the msm doesn't get it here. there is also a willing embrace of risk, an ability to lose money here in order to make a point. the washington guys i talked to have some thoughts on all that

one is this mixture of fun and a sort of a moral cause or political cause that is very compelling and a potent force in terms of the populist uprising the pool of people who could participate in this is probably nearly unlimited their message is, understand your critics if you are someone in the wall street establishment understand what the critics are saying about you and why and why that might be justified and, also, the advice is don't think this is simply somebody else's fight. look, brian, the bottom line here this populist movement has a big difference which is that someone is going to take some losses here, all the math would suggest. those financial losses, that financial pain will probably influence the trajectory of this populist movement in a way that is not entirely analogous with what happened in american politics but there are definite, real echoes here of what we've seen on the political landscape. >> by the way, before we get to our guest i want to be very clear on something with this story. there are multiple trails here,

right? you have citadel, not picking on them, and another company called d-1 capital. they have invested in robin hood or melvin which got crushed in the first wave on gamestop citadel buice the order flow they are an investor or d-1 capital is invechted in robin hood d-1 got whacked according to a bloomberg story in terms of its performance. you have this weird tie-in of billion dollar hedge funds, bad performance, robin hood connection, and suddenly things get shut down. not being a conspiracy theorist but you are a cyber security expert there's a lot of common points here, are there not? >> yeah. absolutely all of that sort of fuels the sense of suspicion among the populists who say wait a second. if the hedge fund takes a loss it is a big deal and the institutions have to respond but if, you know, mr. man on the street loses half of his investment, there is no response right? so it feels unfair on its face to a lot of people

and, look. we're just at the beginning of this moment. a couple political figures i talked to said this feels like the thing that happened to melvin capital this week feels to them a lot like what happened to congressman eric cantor back in 2014. an establishment republican leader in virginia taken out by a tea party populist movement. it was an early indicator of what was happening in that party and of course presaged everything that happened in 2016 the idea is melvin capital could be the same kind of can aira in the coal mine for something much more significant we could be building to. that is why people need to take some time, respect it, understand what's happening, and why. and then follow where that goes. >> all right stay right there let's talk more about it for more on some of these wild moves on wall street and the washington connection, let's bring in an entrepreneur and founder and ceo of predict, a cryptocurrency platform. he's also been closely monitoring the reddit thread for years. william, thank you very much for

joining us >> thanks. >> what do you make of this entire situation and how do you think it will or should play out? >> yeah, i think this is -- this isn't just a traditional pump and dump which i feel a lot of people on your network are characterizing it as i think it is a much broader socio economic movement and a lot of these traders on wall street that quite frankly don't care whether or not they make or lose money they, you know, the diamond hands wanting to hold long term and they don't -- they have a lot of animosity against the wall street types and these people that they feel like are rigging the system against them and quite frankly the optics of stopping robin hood earlier in the day and ibkr stops the trading of all these so-called meme stocks and i think that's quite -- >> by the way, william forget about even the stopping of trading because that is a different issue, these

companies. we can get into that but from a populist perspective, do you think, and by the way, maybe there are people we know that are guilty of this, there is this sort of talking down to these retail investors let me tell you something. okay i don't know if you've gambled, but i like to play black jack. if i'm sitting at a black jack table and some guy sits down and starts hitting 17 or 16 every time and losing a bunch of money i'm not going to turn and be like man you should really do this or you're not a very good black jack player. or be careful. the casino always wins because he probably will and should punch me in the mouth do you feel like we talk down -- if they want to gamble their money, trade, or invest, whatever you want to call it, it's their own business. >> yeah, absolutely. i was watching a segment earlier on your network and one of the guests was calling these people, quote-unquote unsophisticated, uneducated investors and saying they don't have any idea what they're doing. if that is the case why did a

$12 billion hedge fund implode overnight because a lot of people saw 130%, you know, of all shares were in the short position when you have that kind of leverage and reckless investing from hedge funds and people see that and take advantage of that, that is what the free market is. so i think it is extremely hypocritical and there is a spotlight being put on this right now. i think it's uniting kind of both sides of the political spectrum as you said both ted cruz and aoc. there are not many things they agree on but this is one of them >> get in here >> reporter: yeah, look. william, you've been following this so carefully and i thought one of the things you said when we talked yesterday which i found fascinating was this idea of nostalgia and this idea of leverage and sort of -- so walk us through the thinking on these

reddit boards in terms of what the next targets could be of this group how does this anger manifest itself in terms of specific stocks if people might be trying to take out next >> yeah. i think as a general longing and sense of people wanting to go back to the good ole days, the simpler times, the pre-covid era, the era when things were maybe financially more, you know, stable i guess you could say. so a lot of stocks that kind of bring back the nostalgia, things like nokia, you know, the blockbuster liquidation company. those types of stocks are very nostalgic from a kind of cultural perspective but also very meme worthy i would say and something i think the traditional wall street types don't understand is the mindset of the retail investors and what matters to them. because a lot of people on wall street trade on fundamentals they'll trade on technical analysis those are the things that matter to wall street unvestors

the retail investors have a little different mindset sometimes. i think it is wrong tosay thei mindset is uneducated or comes from the point of ignorance. it's just a different strategy and way they approach the market right now it's working out pretty well for them we'll see what happens in terms of what stocks would be kind of next, i've seen a list of basically the most shorted stocks from hedge funds. there is both this cultural aspect -- >> we got to go but isn't that rich that you got the big wall street firms putting out lists of names that might pop from the retail investor who is going after the wall street firms when there is money to be made people are going to step in a great combo. we got to leave it there by the way, there is a piece up on cnbc.com. urge everybody to check it out thank you, gentlemen

coming up, it seems tempting but don't write off the investors behind these short squeezes there may actually be a method please aba strategy to the seeming madness. plus, big profits big sales beat but not so big outlook northr northrup grumman reporting earnings today the stock fell we'll hear from the ceo in one of her first broadcast interviews ever. bitcoin is up. we're back after this. sometimes, you want speedy but reliable. state-of-the-art but dependable. in other words, you want a hybrid. so do telcos. that's why they're going hybrid with ibm. a hybrid cloud approach with watson ai

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welcome back everybody this is what is happening at this hour. even though greene has questioned whether some school shootings actually happened. >> assigning her to the education committee when she has mocked the killing of little children at sandy hook elementary school, when she has mocked the killing of teenagers in high school at the marjorie stoneham douglas high school, what could they be thinking? or thinking is too generous a word for what they might be doing? >> and just happening a moment ago, georgia officials say six

people have died and many others have been injured due to a liquid nitrogen tank leak at the prime pack foods poultry plant in gainsville. the northeastern part of that state is still developing story and we'll get the details next hour brian, back to you >> hate to hear that we'll wait for more details and hopefully they'll turn out for the best sue, thank you very much all right. northrop grumman reporting a big profit but disappointing outlook this morning the stock is up a little bit about 2% but overall down about 20% in the past year morgan brennan had a chance to speak with northrop grumman's ceo a short while ago and joins us now with more what was the tone and topic of the conversation i think it was one of if not the first big broadcast interviews that the ceo has done. >> yeah. that's right, brian. it was a ride ranging interview. it was a very rare interview for her who took the helm two years ago. reporting a strong quarter, in a

strong year, despite covid looking forward, she is saying she sees defense budgets flattening but the biden administration is assembling a very experienced team that understands the threat environment so some similar comments to the ones at lockheed martin earlier this week northrup is prime for two parts of nuclear triad modernization she expects the ground based strategic deterrent, replacement program valued upwards of $85 billion to be reviewed but believes the administration will find it under way and performing well on the classified b 21 stealth bomber echoing recent air force comments that it will be ready it will fly when it's ready. right now the air force is targeting 2022 with two aircraft under construction lastly, on the space portfolio, which grew 18% last year, she expects continued strength not just for defense and national security, which are key parts of the business, but also commercial space with offerings like one that extends the life of satellites in orbit and, brian, i just mentioned that

disappointing outlook. this is also a company that recently announced it is going to sell its i.t. services business which i think is the reason for the revision in the outlook on broader sector consolidation. she believes we'll continue to see that including in i.t. services back over to you >> all right great stuff there. a big interview there and a very rare one as you said morgan brennan, good to, quote, see you. take care. >> you too all right. we're on a huge reversal from yesterday's losses stocks having their best day of the year: gaining back all of what they lost and more. the dow up 632 at the high at the 576 now the s&p up more than 2% as well. and by the way, all 11 of the s&p sectors are up and in the green. financials, communication, services all leading the pack. 11 of 11 my math says that is a hundred percent. of course we're also keeping an eye on all of the volatile names, the names we've been talking about for days now gamestop, amc, nokia, and others

as well. gamestop down 28%. amc down 49% american airlines getting thrown in the mix as well that stock is higher all right. on deck, general motors says it is going all electric with its cars in 20 years will this turn the fossil fuel industry into a fossil we'll find out plus, is gamestop really the sad sack company with no future? it's made out to be? or is it more fundamentally sound than many think? we'll discuss. area homeowners

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i trust 'em. i think you can too. call now! welcome back well, big oil on edge as president biden unveils his ambitious climate change agenda. the president is signing executive orders to suspend oil and gas leasing, new leases, on federal lands. he is also pledging to conserve 30% of federal lands and water by 2030. corporate america of course and investors also pushing for greener investments. gm today saying it plans to exclusively offer electric vehicles within 20 years joining us now with more on biden's energy plan and the

investment opportunities around it, is dan pickering chief investment officer at pickering energy partners. dan, you know, you've been doing this a long time i guess so have i. i know it sounds counterintuitive but sometimes it is darkest before the dawn with everybody saying, big oil is uninvestable. esg, sell everything all the climate change agenda. all this good stuff. maybe that is the perfect time to start poking around oil and gas stocks what do you think? >> i think we've got to take a look at energy here. no question that the biden administration cares about energy and green energy but that's the future. it is going to take a long time to get there energy is the worst group last year or three years ago or five years ago. it's been a terrible spot to be, traditional oil and gas companies. the best performers so far this year it has been kind of darkest before the dawn. i think the day is coming. >> yeah. that's the idea.

i understand the anger and frustration a lot of people have forfossil fuels but i think to your point if you look at rational, reasonable, sort of nonemotional data when we talk about population growth, let's say, by the way, let's say the biden administration opens up immigration not just the dreamers that are already here but new immigration, new immigrants aren't going to come here and buy tesla model ss. that is the reality. electric cars right now are still expensive and out of the reach of many, many people the demand for fossil fuels while probably diminishing over decades isn't going tocollapse in the next 15 years, is it? >> decades is the right way to think about this, brian. you're right electric vehicles are 1% of the cars on the road right now and so, you know, the reality is we'll be using gasoline and a lot of it here in the united states for a very long period of time the rest of the world is the same story developing countries are more, you know, oil and gas intensive. sew t

sew -- so this is a process where we need all things green and low carbon but also need oil and gas. so this energy transition as it's been described, folks would love it to be here in a day or a week or a month. it's going to take decades as you mentioned. >> and the investments we make in wind and solar, we need all of that. their price curves have come way down but it is not like they're fossil fuel absolved either. you have to dig up the lithium and dig this stuff up and transport these huge turbines. it is going to be a slow roll. very quickly, are there names, know you aren't a trading firm but do you think that are investable here? >> absolutely. so stocks are cheap. they're discounting oil in the 40s. we think oil will be in the 50s or 60s you mentioned it we loved the enp producers,

diamond back energy, pioneer, even exxon today is a play on improving oil prices and at stocks up but still has more room to run. so energy should be a part of a portfolio. >> yeah. when you look at some of these dividend yields even a lot of investors that might want to hold their nose and buy it just because bonds are yielding basically left and nothing with inflation. dan pickering with pickering energy partners, good discussion there. see you soon thank you. >> thanks, brian >> all right still ahead, some of the high volatility stocks are taking it on the chin today. some retail trading platforms put restrictions in place. but the spokes person says there is actually astrategy in these wild swings and joins us next. a big bounce back rally today putting the bit back above 30,000 still far from the high set earlier this year. 42,000 we are up 908 on that.

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madness. not just a good band from the '80s but also the word many describe the rollercoaster ride with, heavily shorted names. gamestop, amc, koss, a few extra ones i won't mention to add to the volatility but it is so intense that retail broke rajs like robin hood have put restrictions in place or even cut off trading all together for new accounts but unlike many of these moms our next guest says there might actually be a method to some of this madness for the run up in game stop. for more let's welcome in our friend paul hickey co-founder of the spoke investment group what do you mean coming ahead of market cap of like $200 million a couple months ago, paul and i think yesterday you point out or today it was briefly the biggest company on the russell 2000 >> why he.

so i mean -- >> yes i mean with every elaborate story there is a kernel of truth to it. with gamestop it is existing business -- its existing business is in a lot of trouble. but a couple catalyst ts last year the upgrade, consoles, playstation, x box then you had later in the year the reopening trade in helping brick and mortar retailers that provided a catalyst for the stock. then you saw a chewy co-founder take a stake in the company in november then in january he was given a board seat with two other former chewy colleagues so there are a lot of incremental steps there, which help to increase interest and give people some hope on what you said was a very low market cap company, which had zero believers on wall street i mean, game stop had -- >> paul, paul. by the way, not zero this is amazing. a lot of people may not realize

this dr. michael bury, yes, the same guy played by christian bale in the big short right out in california, i don't know if he still owns it but he actually took a huge stake in gamestop last fall on, for fundamental reasons. not exactly a day trader >> right so you have this, what is sort of mind boggling in hindsight is that gamestop had a sure interest as a percentage of flow of more than a hundred percent for over a year since late 2019. the stock got down to about $3 last spring and it still had the high level of short interest in fact, it went higher. it was such a crowded trade. and you would have just thought there would have been some thinking about, okay what could go wrong here more than a hundred percent of the -- >> paul, that's it right? you just nailed it i mean, everyone, you know, people are like, oh, the retail

investors should be careful. the reality is what about regulation and i don't want to get into it. sho. right? we've talked about this for years. this wonky, naked short selling. how in the world are you at 130% or 140 sold short. i understand some is synthetic i won't go into things like delta like delta one products there's things that tack too long, the markets, hedge funds, they set themselves up for this. the market allowed something it shouldn't have allowed. >> you have similar shortages, but gamestop was in a league of its own. not only 100% of its float, more than 100% of its shares outstanding were sold short. so it was completely everybody on the short side was in on this it backfired so some of the other stocks people are going after now and

that we saw yesterday -- yesterday was just a really crazy day. in the russell 3000, the 600 most shorted stocks were up yesterday, and all other sections of the russell 3000 were down. >> yeah. >> then today we're seeing the opposite >> what a weird day. paul, we got -- i'm getting a hard wrap. i apologize, buddy we'll have it again. paul hickey, thank you very much. >> thank. citigroup has compiled a list of etfs that have -- for that name, go to cnbc.com/pro, sign up and get the full list. visa reporting earnings after the bell with debit card

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all right. welcome back to "the exchange. mastercard costing a beat, visa ahead of the results after the call today not so fast says senior equity aroundist lisa ellis she has a buy rating on both names. what's behind the bullish thesis >> yeah, so i guess, point one, what people don't often realize is a lot of the spending, if you use a service like affirm, afterpay or paypal sometimes it's going over cards. but the underlying funding method is obvious still a cart in fact, when you break up these transactions from one big peloton to lots of installments for that peloton, the underlying companies make more money,

because they make more money off smaller transactions than instead of one big one >> so that micropayment type of sim that benefits thinks companies? >> exactly for the card networks in particular, and then paypal has launched a version of what this installment lending, what is very popular with affirm, clarna, very popular with the millennial new coming into the space, they like they offerings, but you can't escape visa and mastercard they are the rails behind that so they're still sitting in the background give you the halftime final trade, 20 seconds dxe

technology who? >> yeah, totally other end of the spectrum, i wouldsay that's more in the value play orientation, i.t. services company, big turnaround situation, new ceo doing a fantastic job there. you know, turning around a company that was in dire straits. they're very heavily tide to the data outsourcing services that are in a decline, but he's done a nice job shifting the services toward a digit at services we like that one a lot that's a value play. >> got it. just like halftime, hweave to jump. sorry to lob it to you we'll see you tomorrow "power lunch" is next.

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