good morning it is 3:00 a.m. tuesday in the australian capital, it's 11:00 a.m. on wall street, and "squawk alley" is live ♪ ♪ ♪

happy monday welcome to "squawk alley." i'm jon fortt with carl quintanilla and julia boorstin tesla making more money from bitcoin than cars. morgan stanley makes a snap decision and the akri moan our first guest is an early investor in facebook who last week writes in "the washington post" america has experienced curbing dangerous industries we can do the same with tech elevation partners co-founder is back with us roger, good to see you it has been a while. this clash between facebook and others is kind of asymmetrical in the sense democracy is mark zuckerberg runs that company very clearly and can push his perspective and then

politicians, policymakers have to get their whole country in line if it means suffering short term in the news feed, right >> that is exactly correct facebook attempted to position what was going on in australia as a tax on links to news. in fact, it's an attempt to apply antitrust law in one of the few ways that a country of the scale of australia can apply it which is by essentially saying, i'm sorry, but if you're going to use your power we're going to make you reimburse those who are harmed and the problem is the original law is far from perfect. i think in australia they thought this was their best leverage and, unbelievably, facebook overplayed its hand by turning off government offices and services required in fire

season they turned off fire departments, turned off hospitals, and the result was a public relations disaster even by facebook standards was epic >> what strikes me, too, if you're going to disconnect from needing facebook this is probably how it's going to happen if you're australia and you want to welcome in some competition from a social network to get your citizens news from other sources where it's still social and they can share, this is your chance you'd better do it quick >> i think they made it easy on them because they did it in a ham-handed way without any warning and i think if you're australia you look at this, you know, we've been under colonial rule for a long time we're a country that is proud of the things it does

you have this company telling you what you can and cannot do, i don't think so >> roger, i'm curious when you look at how you think these platforms should be regulated here in the u.s., your new op-ed says you want these platforms for hate speech, for misinformation regulated like chemical kmcompanies. what's so interesting here and we see this with the fact news is less relevant in australia than it used to be, less valuable to the news feed, it's not just about preventing companies from doing things that are wrong but is about the people on the platform how different does it have to be >> that's a great question the central point of my op-ed in "the washington post" it's to change incentives. as you correctly point out, the platforms create an environment

on which a lot of bad things can happen and they compete for our attention amplifying things that will engage us emotionally that turns out to be hate speech and conspiracy theories for an awful lot of people. the result of that is harm i want to see a change similar to the building trades but also the chemicals industry but especially building trades where you sign up for a code of conduct where everyone in technology has to sign up to anticipate and prevent harm before shipping products right now there's no incentive in the building trades, contractors and architects, if you violate building codes, you are personally responsible that would have a huge impact in silicon valley the second thing is privacy. surveillance capital is a huge issue.

>> certainly privacy legislation has been something talked about for a long time. to not have news shared in the news feed that speaks to the fact what's being shared, what's valuable is what consumers are doing. section 230 which is the liability shield and protected these companies about content on their platforms. >> changing the incentives for people who work at the companies. so my first choice is i want to make them personally accountable for the work that they create. they are required to anticipate and mitigate harm before shipping a product i do think reform of 230 is very important but that only applies to internet platforms where the issues i'm describing apply to the whole industry so it also includes things like smart

devices which, right now, have huge issues and artificial intelligence where there are issues of bias that were anticipated but nobody had incentive to do so i think there are three aspects to the regulation. you have to do this liability, the change of incentive, do privacy. some kinds of personal data that plain should not be used in commerce and lastly antitrust those three things together as a package will allow us to come through with the building trades and with chemicals with a perfectly successful industry but one which can co-exist with democracy in society >> is that as optimistic as i've heard you in a long time, rojer? >> the answer is, yes, it is, carl the insurrection on january 6th at the capitol made this personal for members of congress in a way that nothing previously has done

i think that you see in congress today a level of understanding of what others have been going through. that positions them to be the representatives of the people. i am more positive i definitely am more positive. i'm convinced this industry is better off coming out of this. we're going to see a lot of innovation we've never seen before and that's really exciting >> i would love to see on murdoch and facebook, it's been a long brew over the years as it pertains to publishing fees and certainly how the australian picture has brought that into relief but what kind of role he is playing either public any in posturing or behind the scenes >> carl, i obviously have no insight but the cynic in me believes that murdoch set up the situation in australia where

he's immensely influential, shaking down google, knowing it's a search engine, absolutely has to have news he knew that he could shake them down for a lot of money. the quid pro quo where he set the government up with a situation where facebook would overreach and create a political opportunity for the government that would be very powerful and, you know, again, that's the cynic in me saying that. i have no reason to believe that's what happened it feels to me that's the game murdoch plays. >> angels in very few scenarios in the sort of stuff, roger. i wonder on the overall front with social media and tech do you think there's enough sustained attention to be had to get change at this point between covid and all of the other

things going on in the world it seems like people in the u.s. have a lot on their plate and this is not number one >> jon, you are absolutely correct this is not number one restore the economy to some kind of balance and growth. i think, sadly, in order to do those two things, we're going to have to do something about mim misinformation i think tech reform will be in the mix but i worry about the attention span of everyone in the country. there's so much going on i have to be hopeful and i have to be hopeful because i think with all the issues in our politics that if we aren't careful we slip back into an authoritarian model which is where we were until the past election so i think that's just incredibly bad for america, and

i don't want us to go near that again. i think the companies, sadly, are aligned with authoritarian forces and that will be a huge issue for a long time. >> it's been said before these companies themselves are not democracies. roger mcnamee, thank you >> thanks, jon >> keep your eye on snapchat today. $100 billion market cap as morgan stanley upgrades to overweight the price target of $80 to $50 they're talking about a longer runway on engagement and monetization a $7 name last march a lot more "squawk alley" still ahead. your daily dashboard from fidelity -- a visual snapshot of your investments, key portfolio events, all in one place. because when it's decision time, you need decision tech. only from fidelity. ♪♪ hey you, yeah you. i opened a sofi money account and it was the first time that i realized

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apple, amazon, microsoft and bitcoin. those are the four members of the trillion dollar market cap club, at least they were bitcoin falls below that mark this morning in what has been a volatile session our next guest is the head of block chain and distributed ledger technology at the world economic forum, sheila warren joins us now sheila, before we get to the broader issues of block chain let's start with janet yellen's comments about bitcoin she said it was inefficient, highly speculative and the amount of energy consumed in processing the transactions is staggering what do you think of her comments >> you know, i think it's interesting that janet yellen has had speculation about what she says and what it will mean for the market i think it's not unfair to say

bitcoin has been a volatile and speculative asset. that's fairly obvious. it's all relative to what when we think of the existing financial system and how much it costs to print and store money some energies are considered not okay i found that an interesting point brought up in the criticism. >> what do you expect this year and impacting this volatile chart that we're looking at right now? >> well, i do think we're going to see more institutional investment we went out big last year and the recognition by institutions bitcoin can serve as historic value. that is a proven concept it's a done deal bitcoin will be a

diversification strategy, it isn't correlated with the usual investments. there's a lot of liquidity people are seeing on now whether the movement of these big players, i'm not so sure i don't think investment in bitcoin is going anywhere. that's for sure. >> around last week gardner had this survey of cfos and about 5% said they would consider adding it on to the balance sheet i wonder if you think that number sounds about right and how reasonably high could it get if corporate treasurers and cfos start trying to do what you're describing >> it actually sounds quite low to me. i expect a lot of cfos aren't willing to come out and say they have bitcoin in their portfolio. it's a matter of what percentage the portfolio might be and it remains small for most portfolios it would surprise me if most responsible financial managers

are not pushing into crypto and bitcoin specifically and i would say that will continue >> sheila, is it your view that bitcoin will or should stabilize either at this level significantly higher or even lower than here? >> bitcoin, there's such a fad to it, and that's a lot of what i think is driving volatility. you can't discount good old-fashioned fomo, people saying they want to own bitcoin. i do think it will stabilize as the focus shifts to the technology which is what i think is exciting about it i wouldn't say that's the focus why people are jumping in at this point in time i do think we'll get more rationality about why people are investing and why it actually matters and why it has longevity. my hope is it will stabilize what that time frame is depends on how many more celebrities jump in and start driving the

price around >> what does rationality mean, a lower price or a far higher price than this once people have accepted all the possibilities for the underlying technologies are. >> it depends on what people view as competitors. bitcoin would argue there are no competitors. i think anybody in the crypto space would say there are competitors. they're competitors that use, for example, less energy consu consumption, and there might be market drive towards some of those other options. i don't see it i do feel like there are strong ones for other cryptocurrencies, but i do think bitcoin will have a role to play, and i think the price is going to keep going up. i think there will be more volatility before we get there i see it stabilizing at a significantly higher price than it is today.

>> taking those predictions for bitcoin and asking to you broaden out for block chain in general i know you're looking at all the different ways block chain can be useful. what are your predictions for its use this year around immunity passports that's something i'm interested in as we learn more about the vaccine's deployment >> yes, many of us are we want to get back on the plane and see other places i think immunity passports are one example, backing some of the efforts that are in that space, but i think you have to think about what it means to have a source of truth. this is basically a really robust compute network with what the block chain is and are and what can you do with that when you don't need a centralized authority serving as a gatekeeper i'm interested in nonfungible tokens which are collectibles

that are blowing up in the digital art world. there's been a lot of trading in that space and unsexy but infrastructure decentralized file storage, things that are superpowerful and we're beginning to see the advent of this technical application happen >> when you have skepticism like that how do you think that's going to impact the approach as they think about embracing not just the currency but the infrastructure >> quite frankly the views haven't seemed to matter you have to separate some of the technology from what's happening in the investment side and economic side of things.

people may use bitcoin as a source of payment. overall i just don't necessarily see that being a critical factor in what's come before. it wasn't as if they were supportive of bitcoin and you saw a lot of movement into the space and saw the price begin to go up. more about the talk than the action and what happens will affect the market. >> sheila warren, thanks so much >> thanks for having me. >> that was a great discussion guys, keep your eyes on airbnb a slew of other companies. today loop upgrades to buy ahead of the first earnings as a public company expect a blow-out by a significant margin but they do note some pressure is possible

ahead of its lockup expiration price target is $240 big news travels fast on t-mobile, the leader in 5g coverage and speed. that's why we're bringing out our best deal on the new iphone 12 with 5g. right now get the iphone 12 on us on each and every plan. switch now and save 20% on your bill versus the other guys. and that's not an introductory rate, that's the best value in wireless. that's right. the iphone 12 on us. on the leader in 5g. and save 20% per month. share big moments and big savings at t-mobile.

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this month on cnbc we are hearing from our contributors as they offer reflections on black history and what lies ahead for the next generation. here is hercules founder james mcdonald on the importance of promoting financial literacy at an early stage and what needs to be done to address the racial wealth gap >> i think financial literacy is the number one thing of importance in order to close the racial wealth gap in america for me reading about finance, reading about stories of financiers made a huge difference in empowering me to have the courage to pursue my own financial career get literate, understand finance, saving, investing and planning and you will help close the racial wealth gap starting with yourself. >> look out for more stories

like that one this week on "squawk alley. for more on james mcdonald head to cnbc.com. ♪♪ dad, i'm scared. ♪♪ it's only human to care for those we love. and also help light their way. ♪♪ it's why last year chevron invested billions of dollars to bring affordable, reliable, ever cleaner energy to america. ♪♪ we see breakthrough medicines getting to patients in record time. at emerson, our automation software is empowering pharmaceutical companies to accelerate their production of critical vaccinations for the world. emerson. consider it solved.

welcome back i'm rahel solomon. here is your cnbc news update this hour. the supreme court says it will not prevent a new york grand

jury from seeing former president donald trump's tax returns. that is a significant loss in trump's years long campaign to keep the documents private the supreme court also saying that it will review trump-era regulations on limiting federal funding for health clinics that give abortion referrals and the so-called public charge rule that bars immigrants deemed likely to require government benefits from obtaining permanent residency. starting on wednesday google will once again accept political ads. the search giant paused political advertising in response to the capitol hill riots in january and, take a look at your screen,san francisco a house from the 1880s took a quarter-mile ride to its new home along the route parking meters were ripped up and trees trimmed back to make space for the rolling residence. the operation took years of planning and cost $400,000 carl, certainly not something you see every day. they moved the house to make way for a new apartment building being built on the lot

pretty cool, right >> look, we're all about looking at activity in real estate in the bay area it's fascinating rahel, thanks. let's turn back to our story with the fight over news in australia and canada choosing sides between murdoch and zuckerberg is just plain awful. cnbc contributor kara swisher is with us. i'm not sure even you know which side to be on. >> every day it's different. i read a great thread outlining exactly what the companies were doing in terms of digital advertising and then, of course, that's murdoch you saw a picture one of the prime ministers showed of eight headlines across australia it's essentially a news mogul who has a history of doing things like this and pushing people around and then you have a tech company whose control over the digital ad market is supreme, both of the two google and facebook it's not a great choice.

i think this law doesn't do that, this arbitration process in order to establish some sort of parity doesn't do that. there have to be privacy bills, taxes that you would use for journalism, social media taxes, digital advertising taxes, and breakup, of course, is the last case scenario. there are all kinds of levers, and this one is trying to get to something good but doesn't seem to reach it at all >> right as this whole thing evolves, kara, as we turn our attention more to canada as we see what maybe france wants to do, is this going to get too complex or do you see sides backing a single idea whether it's australia's or not >> better. i would think better a lot of people have issues with gdpr in europe, which is the way they have done various issues around tech. i think it will probably be better i hope legislators in canada and elsewhere will be a little more less prone to having -- one of

the things that drove me crazy and i think i wrote about this, none says more journalism will be done, which i think is the point, right this whole idea journalism is over because of these huge tech companies. nothing goes to creating more media or whatever, and that's one of the issues t. could go right into the pockets of the news moguls and right out to shareholders that's one of the other things to consider. so it's extraordinarily complex here and not just that facebook is a monopoly kind of situation here although it'seasy to embrace that because they are in many ways. and i think they handed rupert murdoch, who owns news corp and controls most of the australian media for all intents and purposes a real pr win here. >> kara it's a very complex issue. go ahead >> go ahead, sorry >> no, carl, please go ahead go ahead

no, you go ahead >> kara, one day we're going to exit this world of one-second delays my question, kara, when you look at players other than murdoch and heads of state, whether it's microsoft, is there one that you find particularly interesting right now or that you think could be pivot all in the months and years ahead? >> there are interesting voices. i think in canada some of the stuff their ministers are talking about is somewhat interesting. obviously there's been some movement here in this country, mostly around antitrust and privacy bills and things like that there's got to be some way to get transparency into the mark that's dominated by facebook and google and how they run things there's been lots of examples of them not being as honest as they need to be around how pricing is done and their control of it is absolute i think that's a laudable task to try to figure out how to make it clear what's happening here and separate their interests from one another that help each

other, leads to advertising and things like that so, yeah, there's lots of solutions. they have to get down and it's complex, obviously >> kara, looking at the way facebook has handled this, unwilling to work with australian government, clearly a concern there about setting a precedent as these issues arise in other countries around the world, i would love you to look at your crystal ball you're so familiar with the personalities at facebook. how do you see facebook approaching this do you think this is a negotiating play what comes next? >> i think they youultimately w settle they try to pretend they're doing these first amendment principles or a principle against this this is a business and so they want an advantage in a business and if they just dealt with it that way it would be easier. the story buzz feed has which i think we'll talk about with alex jones, the same thing.

it's quite haphazard in terms of what they're doing i understand why they're doing it, walking away from the bargaining table there is sort of a stubborn principle behind it mark zuckerberg has in his brain. this is the road we're going down i suspect there's probably a lot more internal debate underneath him and facebook >> i have to wonder if this really speaks to the fact that news is just not as important to the news feed as it used to be is that what this really tells us >> we don't want to pay that much, get into these discussions. it doesn't matter to facebook the news even though it matters to the news organizations and, of course, they push a lot of distribution and we push a lot of distribution to you, they were putting out some numbers people were questioning whether they gave that much money to these different publications it's not important to their business

i think it is in some ways, in a way that's not quantifiable necessarily. a lot of the other stuff that goes on doesn't have to do with news someone was saying 4% of revenues has to do with news it's a very small amount >> before our segment, rahel brought us the news they will resume political ads do we have the all clear socially on that front >> i don't know. there has to be a bigger, broader discussion within the companies which i think is going on, which i'm assuming is going on about what to do about political advertising. certainly there's elections going on every day of the year kind of thing across the world and so these companies are global companies and they sort of have to figure out what to do so it's not every year it's a fire drill. we're already gyning up for the 2022 elections what are the new things people will do to manipulate the platforms. it's a much broader discussion

the companies need to have and maybe it will be had when they come to congress maybe they have to articulate it better on what policies are around elections they still play such an important role in the distribution of information that it's hard not to try to figure out what they can do for the long term around political advertising especially micro targeting. >> yeah. fascinating evolution, kara, as we watch their business model certainly take over huge parts of our daily life. good to see you again. >> 100%. thank you so much. >> kara swisher. keep your eyes on shares of -- remember this one, gamestop this morning. a big surge relative to what in large part thanks to roaring kitty who said he has doubled his stake in gme to 100,000 shares you can see it trading there $44 a share, a far cry from where it was.

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ an interesting note on tesla. analyst dan ives said elon musk and company made about $1 billion in paper profits on just its bitcoin investments. tesla is on pace to make more money from crypto than selling electric vehicles in all of 2020 read that report on cnbc.com

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the issues for google inside of its artificial intelligence division continued over the weekend. i don't know if you saw this they fired ai researcher margaret mitchell, the second termination inside the group in just two months. and another departure of an outspoken critic of the ai practices. then you have a report out from our own about the disorder behind its program for black college students, jon. i mean, not to get too granular on the internals of google's hr but it certainly is ringing loud around the valley.

>> yeah. got to say at least they had a prime program for black college students, so many in tech, in media, that haven't made any significant pushes in the direction of the underrepresented, so there's that as much as they are trying to argue for progress and for their contributions to it, these actions speak so loudly when you are losing women, women of color who are highly placed in your organization in a way that's public it's something that management certainly, i hope, will answer for in a more detailed way than thus far >> yeah, and, jon, it's worth noting the importance of the fact these women -- these women of color were in the artificial intelligence division. carl, there's been so much conversation about the power of artificial intelligence to shape conversation, to shape culture, and to shape what happens in the world around us and the need for diversity in the people that are creating those ai programs to

really make sure that ai is not biased because, carl, that really is a risk people are increasingly aware of. >> indeed, guys. a fascinating look at an ongoing issue for the company, jon no question about that >> there is. julia, well put. >> and, take a look at shares of discovery. getting a boost this morning after reporting earnings beating on both the top and bottom line. shares up over 9%.

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welcome back if you've been to a hospital that used a credit card chances are your influence has been used by our next guest software, some of the biggest names across major industries including finance, customers include american express, citi and hsbc. pega systems rang the opening bell to celebrate crossing a billion dollars in annual revenue and founder and ceo allen truffler joins us. besides being a billionaire from your founding and long time leadership you're a chess grandmaster. tell us how the board looks for

economic recovery because of the many industries that pegasystems touches? you said in the earnings call that financial services, government, telecom, health care continue to be stronger. how does the recovery look globally >> well, we see that digital transformation is needed now more than ever a lot of organizations have been sort of, i think, well, stumbling through the last year trying to make the best with what they have and they now understand that it's time for them to really rethink the way they engage with customers and get work done and reduce complexity. >> what's happening with spending, though, because for so many governments revenue is less certain than it was in the past, but there's a need for transformation, as you mentioned, because there's so much digital inquiry necessity to inquire of the data to make decisions. so how is that balancing out

>> well, the great news is our technology tends to have a very, very quick payback so that an organization, being the commercial organization or a government, can put the technology in and immediately begin to see benefits. benefits in terms of cost reduction, benefits in terms of spee speed to service and better in terms of proclaproclamation. >> so strategically, where are you investing in 2021 that might be different than where you'd thought be investing in say, 2019 >> no one could have predicted the pandemic in that time frame. the places we're investing continue to be aligned with the good growth we're showing. we crossed not just a billion in revenue, which we do as a milestone, but also we're able to project expectations for about a billion and a quarter of

what the revenue next year and to support that, we're going to be continuing to build out our sale to marketing capability and build out engineering. >> alan, it seems like the key here is that peg is all about low code solutions with that in mind, i'm wondering which industries, which sectors you think are going to be able to tap into what you offer going forward. what's the next leg of growth? >> well, when i take a look at the industries that were highlighted, there's tremendous growth in those industries including in some of the very large customers that we have where we see a lot of upside still to make things more digital, more efficient. the thing i think is very exciting from a local point of view is we've been low code or sometimes call it, model-driven. since our inception three

decades ago, but we've been able to demonstrate the ability to handle the rich problems and the sophisticated challenges as well as the simple ones, which i think some of the other providers just do the easy stuff. we're able to let you start easy and start fast, but then ramp up to do something that could go end to end across the major bank >> you're in the midst of these two transitions, of being a subscription service and to the cloud. >> very deep into those transitions. if you take a look at last year, about 78% of our overall revenue was subscription and we believe when we call cloud choice. so even though the majority of what we sell runs on pega cloud, which we basically operate completely for our customers, we support the ability for our large and sophisticated customers to be able to choose

to run it on their clock and we have customers that do both and we have customers that go back and forth. so i think the cloud transition is dramatically not just under way, but has been meaningfully achieved and i think the transition from perpetual to subscription is now in the 90s i think we feel good about that and you'll continue to see results. >> i'm curious to know more about the government silo and we talk about all this digital transformation and we see it happening all around us. i mean, we're coming off of a couple of months here where election security was a severe risk for long-term social stability of the country i wonder if you see tech coming to the rescue on that front in any way in the next couple of cycles >> i think that for elections, the tech sector is going to be pretty fraught to be able to participate. there's a lot that should be

done but so much anxiety and suspicion. i'm just thrilled that we have nothing to do with that. we have no desire to enter, but the type of things we do for governments. i'll tell you a story about something that had frankly never happened before until last year. and one day, we got a call from the government of bavaria, the second largest state they won a customer but somebody who worked for our clients saw they were getting inundated with companies that suddenly needed relief and there were just the processing, the risk of fraud and they had never been in a position where something like that had happened. they reached out we came to work on a monday thinking we'd spend a few days showing what was possible with low code and fast time to market, and by the end of monday, they'd say, let's go by that weekend, we were live and they were so thrilled with the outcome that they did something that's never happened

before we suddenly appeared in a press release they put out in german, talking about how they were automating and digitizing and mentioning us by name. which normally, you have to talk to a customer a long time to get their provision to put our name in association with them and since then, we've now moved in across all 16 states of the government so being able to have a fast win, build on it and then continue to do the more sophisticated stuff. that's a perfect use case. >> yeah, sounds like a dream scenario germany living up to its reputation of loving efficiency there. talk to us about mega scale cloud. you've had a long standing relationship with aws. how strong does their offering continue to be versus challengers like azure, like google cloud that are, you know, trying to get companies like yours on their platforms as

well >> i would say that the aws cloud is, i would still say is kind of the thought leader in the space, and well deserved congratulations to andy jasse, who we knew seven years ago when we were getting this ramped up taking over for bezos but the tremendous competition in the base and part of the choice runs on microsoft azure and they're really working hard to create a level playing field and ultimate that's great for clients and organizations like us. >> how far are they from being able to catch up from amazon and aws is doing >> from the point of view where we're fully functional on all of those thplatforms. >> all right alan tref lerler and, the foundr and ceo of pegasystems.

>> thank you. shares of spotify, currently hosting its stream on event. shares up nearly 2%. the company just announced new exclusively podcast content and announcing consumption of podcasts on the platform up 1500% over three years and introducing a new service called hifi, and they're going to expanding the places where spotify is available saying it's now available in more than 2,000 devices and they're going to make it available to more than 1 billion people to overall growth here saying that the number of creators on the platform is up to 8 million, up from 3 years ago, having 3 million creators so guys, take a look at those shares of spotify reflecting some optimism in where that company is headed in terms of the exclusive content and the people using the platform. >> it's funny how quickly things move

i can't hear you talking about podcasts now without thinking about audio in general, clubhouse, how so many are trying to jump in and do their take on that format. i wonder if spotify and others who have been in the podcast space go more into live audio and this kind of room format we're seeing so much about >> yeah, they're definitely doubling down, guys. that's an all-time high on spotify and even partnering with the rousseau brothers and doing some scripted narrative content like batman unburied we'll see how much the doubling down works i know the street in some cases has been a little bit skeptical. there's signs at least on the bitcoin front that some institutions are beginning to trim their positions kate rooney has got more on that hey, kate. >> reporter: carl, a wild couple of days here for bitcoin now about 53,000 top 58,000 over the weekend. we've got some new data out from

chain, block chain data firm that shows when bitcoin topped 50,000 a couple of weeks ago, the amount of larger bitcoin wallets, so those holding more than a thousand bitcoin which is worth about $50 million, reduced their position so sort of trimmed their holdings around that 50k mark. meanwhile, retail investing picked up. as prices go up here, we see some of the momentum retail investor interest is surging. that's data from chain analysis and we also had elon musk saying that bitcoin seems high after passing a trillion dollar market cap. so a lot of action with bitcoin but again, around 53,000 right now. back to you. >> i wonder, he says something seems high speaking of things going higher, trip adviser up about 11%. thanks, kate rooney, after earnings got a buy from d.a. davidson there, julia? >> yeah, look at those shares

and carl, what are you watching today as we close out the hour spotify shares up 4% >> wow okay also, points out the dow is in the green. only the fifth time in the last ten years the nasdaq down on a day when the dow was up and doc ewed docusign one of the laggards i'm scott wapner front and center dow dramatically outperforming the nasdaq today as one of our investment committee members is making a big bet against tech. joining me for the hour, steve weisz, shannon at boston private wealth and jenny harrington, ceo and portfolio manager at asset management i'll take you to the wall and show you the slide we're talking about. there's the dow up about 30 mintm points

nearly 230 that's