dance forget about the price tag ♪ ♪ ain't about the ♪ >> good morning, welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. we're going to start things out this morning with the money. it is about the money. let's talk about the markets, the dow surged by 460 points in yesterday's session. that was up by 1 1/2%. this is the first time the dow closed above 32,000, and it has been up for four sessions in a row. the s&p up by half a percent the s&p is in 1% range of its record close but the nasdaq was actually down yesterday. didn't share in the gains. it slipped by about 5 pouints after tuesday's 3% rally the nasdaq indicated up by 250 points, around 2%. dow futures indicated up by about 100 points, and then the

s&p 500 up by about 30, and of course, we have been obsessed with treasury yields lately, let's check things out this morning. right now, it looks like the ten-year note is yielding just below where it's been sitting. just below 1 1/2%. you've got the 30-year, a 2.232%, five-year at 0.754%, and of course, gentlemen, let's take a look at the squawk stack this morning. not sure where we left things. we're back to gamestock, which is down 10%. anything anybody wants to change up or add. >> i wanted gamestop because yesterday, i think it was 350 at one point. so maybe we can't really fit in the chart there, but we could use one. the ten-year, as you say, is right about where it's been. ten basis points is such a small amount it looks way different than 16. >> anything below 1-5, all of a

sudden we're off the recent highs. >> and 1.6 on monday, and four straight days with big gains so far, it looks like a pretty good call. >> i think i want to add -- go ahead. >> you want to add roblox? >> well, we should add roblox. just for the day >> instead of bitcoin maybe today. >> what else >> we might actually have to put up coupang later today, and we're going to have to get steve liesman or somebody to do polling, the percentage of americans vaccinated. >> vaccinated. that's a very good idea. we could a separate chart that leads into this. you know, the other thing i would like to keep an eye on is that dbeeple, 13 million now got to be something that tells you about how much liquidity there is out there. >> i think we should get a -- not how many people vaccinated that's too complicated one shot, two shots, i think it

should be everyone vaccinated with either one or two, and everybody that's had covid because we don't know. it's like people have said it's -- >> it's the potential for herd immunity. >> i want to see where we are. someone said 60% 65%. >> we passed 25 million who have had covid already, and i think we are now -- >> what's the real number. >> we are now that in terms of people who have gotten at least one shot you could double, if not triple. >> might be six times that >> that's what dr. mccarry said, right? >> and then we talked to gottlieb, who said that it will flip from us -- people begging to get the shots to the shooters begging to give the shots. and also some of the interesting pieces today about these companies that have done so well, we assume that they've moved up to a new level, and, you know, three steps up, maybe

one step back, will it only be one step back for the stay-at-homers i mean, doordash. >> the thing i thought was most interesting yesterday, maybe one of our sleeper interviews, was the head of the ports down in south carolina just talking about how, look, he thinks it's all because people have been sitting at home, one of the biggest things they have seen coming through the ports is furniture because people have been buying for their homes, and he does not think it will last we have to check in with him, we have gotten through the glut, and maybe things are slowing down, he says they're not spending on going out to eat they're not spending on traveling, they are spending on their home if you can watch kind of with the ports the demand dropped down, that tells you a lot about the stocks that have risen just like you have been talking about, joe >> yeah, there's going to be some give back on the sentiment on these stay-at-home sector and maybe there is some disappointment, and sleeper

interview, how about the just the slightest bit less than our normal block buster interview. is that possible i mean. >> i don't know if people paid enough attention to it it was any favorite interview from yesterday i don't know if people paid enough attention it was my favorite interview. >> we have never had a sleeper interview. we have unbelievable block buster -- >> it was my favorite. and when you look at the big guest list yesterday, you might not have assumed it was a favorite, but it was any favorite interview because i learned something totally different. >> when was that on? it was yesterday. >> i'm with becky, if you haven't bought your peloton yet, i don't know if you're ever buying a peloton. >> you're with me. i started saying that. yeah, don't you think -- >> you two can be on the same team. >> no, we don't want to be on the same team. we're all together in spirit >> take me out of there. >> i bought a treadmill during the pandemic. >> did you really? >> there will be people who need to continue to buy peloton equipment and things, but to

think this is going to become. >> treadmills are good >> the tread is great. >> i had a bike before >> i think a lot of people who wanted to do this did it now, and to think that over the next 12 months, 18 months, that somehow that kind of growth is going to be sustained or even look similar i think is hard to believe. but who knows, there's a lot of stimulus money coming out, and maybe it gets spent in that way. let's tell everybody a little bit about where things stand on that stimulus bill right now because house democrats passed it $1.9 trillion of covid relief president biden expected to sign it tomorrow. here's what's in the bill. $1,400 stimulus checks to individuals making less than $80,000, a $300 per week boost for jobless benefits, $350 billion for state and local aid, 125 billion for public schools, and billions for covid testing and vaccine distribution the bill passed with no republican votes and one

democrat opposed it. meantime, president biden is going to be making his first prime time address to commemorate the one-year anniversary of shut downs taken across the nation as the beginning of this pandemic can you believe it's been a year he will announce the next phase of the u.s. covid response in that year, nearly 30 million americans tested positive for the virus, and more than 529,000 people have died also during that time, three vaccines were developed, and approved by u.s. regulators, nearly 96 million shots. we were talking about this earlier. 24.4% of the country, the adult population has received at least one shot if you do some of the math, those who have taken the shot, and those who have gotten it, it's pretty extraordinary. so it's been quite a year. quite a year it has been to think where we were 365 days ago, joe >> and your brain trying to figure it out.

there are things seems like they're ten years ago, and then there's things that, i mean, easter, i swear we just, we still do -- we still hide eggs in our house my kids are 21 and 18. >> we do too. >> 21 and 18 >> it's okay. >> and they have you know, maybe candy, a nice message, something to think about, but i swear we were just, i actually don't do that i was just watching someone do that, hide all of them. >> the easter bunny. >> yeah, the easter bunny. that's right the easter bunny that seems like last week, and other things seem like this has just been the endless mask wearing and i don't know, i'm still -- i was walking around, you know, outside in the park yesterday. if someone gets within 5 feet of me, i'm like, what's your deal, person, what is your deal? do you not understand. >> that was you before the pandemic >> that was people around me there will be some of that is

going to be hard to change right? i'd feel really weird at a crowded bar. i don't know if i can do that. >> i read an article about how people are going to have a hard time coming back out i'm not going back to kissing people anytime soon on the cheek, accept for my immediate family. >> right >> do you think that restaurants -- >> elbow bumps for life, folks. >> do you think restaurants initially have more business than prior to toit and does doordash go down below where it started. >> i don't know about doordash going down, but restaurants will have more dinner i have cooked dinner 365 nights the home, and i am sick of it. >> not everybody has done that i have been out a lot. not everyone has, but you've got obviously, you know, your parents and everything else. >> somebody i'm protecting, yeah. >> you must be just going nuts. >> sick of it. imagine how sick they are of my cooking, my gosh

>> yeah, has it gotten any better, would you say? >> yes, i have all kinds of new recipes now. >> practice makes perfect. >> i have new recipes, i've trade, breaking out of your habits, you can't have the same four meals or six meals, you got to break out and find new things, and i've gotten much better at that. >> can i make a suggestion, someone spent me one of those slow cookers, it has my face on it. >> we all got those. >> so slow cookers, you can make anything you could put a shoe in there, wow. you put enough chicken broth and mushroom soup and let it go for like 12 hours. the sole might not be as good as the leather part pork chops in there. we have good slow cooker recipes. >> you can make chicken and dumplings in them, and beef

stew, if you let it marinate for 12 hours, becomes super tender. >> look at sorkin, he weighs less, i guess that's the treadmill. everybody else has gained weight. >> the treadmill is life changing, guys, just so you know unbelievable. >> they just killed the story i was supposed to read i don't know whose fault this is it's 33% my fault. >> should we talk more about the treadmill, because i'm happy to. i love that thing. >> i love treadmills, too, and i need one i need one i've been walking, not running got to get back to running. >> joe, here's the game, i walk on it constantly, i do conference calls on it i literally, if i know that i have to be on a phone call for a half hour, i jump on it, and i walk at lileita tt bo of an angle, and it's great. >> look at temper, got him going again. ♪ hey, dad! hey, son! no dad, it's a video call. you got to move the phone in front of you

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on monday, monday morning, appaloosa management founder, david tepper made a big market call he told me japan which had been a net buyer of treasury, here to weigh in on the call, and what else investors should be watching in the bond market is chief investment officer of bleakley advisory group, cnbc contributor. theoretically, if you had listened, i mean, amazon is back above 3,000, the nasdaq was in

the low 12s, it's back above 13,000, dow is up four straight days, you could almost take profits on that. peter, you -- i don't know whether you're saying teperper s wrong or has his facts wrong, but he says japanese have been net sellers for five years you say that japan's holdings of u.s. treasuries are near record highs of 1 1/4 trillion, up 200 billion over the last few years, so they're already loaded up so when he said they had been net sellers for five years, he was wrong, he's looking at different information than you >> yeah, they were sellers up until about 2018, and then picked up their purchases again, so japan is now the largest foreign holder of u.s. treasuries, surpassing china china is closer to a trillion, and as you mentioned, japan is at 1 1/4 trillion, which is only about 40 billion off record

highs. so they still have a lot now, if there's a yield pick up to have, like david said, the japanese are going to take it. the cross currency basis swap, which is basically measuring the cost of hedging out that dollar exposure, if you're a yen based investor, has been pretty steady over the past year, so now with the widening gap between the u.s. ten-year, and the japanese ten-year, there is a yield gap to capture i just don't know how aggressive the japanese want to be with the amount that they already have. every thursday, they announce their purchases of foreign bond. they don't necessarily split it up between country, but for the weekend, march 5th, they recorded today that they only bought a modest amount after selling 35 billion of foreign bonds in the two prior weeks while it's possible, we haven't seen it just yet i think most relevant for bonds or what the fed does with the banks and the supplementary leverage ratio the banks have been the big

buyers of treasuries as of late. >> i want to talk about that, i saw your comments on that, but just returning to japan just for a moment, i wanted to mention this yesterday, actually, because, you know we had the somewhat tame cpi numbers, and there were other things going on yesterday that saw yields fall on the ten-year, but japan, some bank of japan officials seem to be not necessarilyovernor corods on friday that he said, there's no reason to widen the band on keeping rates at zero on the jgbs, but yesterday there was another official who said we need to raise the band, we need to let rates go higher, and they actually have a meeting on march 18th and 19th, peter is itpossible that they go against what coroda indicated on p friday and they actually do widen the band

>> i think what they'll do, and we heard this from the deputy governor on monday that they'll tolerate more volatility within it the problem that the japanese have with this band is the japanese bank stock index since 1989 is down 90% in nominal terms. they have killed off their regional banking system because of what they have done to the yield curve. widening the band at some point is something they're going to have to do, but i think right now, they'll try to do it in a very controlled fashion but first saying, let's have more volatility within it and maybe in the coming months start to widen it, as growth pictures up, inflationary pressure starts to includes because they need a regional banking system if they were going to survive as an economy. >> you were here about the supplementary leverage ratio for banks and whether the fedex tends that you said if they didn't, banks would be less inclined to do a lot of treasury buying

and then you go on to say, the fed would never do it, they will extend the waiver, because the banks need it, and the fed's worried about the implications for the treasury market. you bring up the possibility of it happening, and then say it's not going to happen. >> i think if we didn't have this big rise in rates this year of, you know, 55 basis points in two months, i think from a regulatory standpoint, the fed would just let it expire and the banks would go back to the ratios they had pre-pandemic i think that now with the angle of, okay, there's been disruption in the treasury market, and banks have increased their holdings of treasuries and agency securities by almost 800 billion over the past year, i think that the fed's going to want that bank lubricant to remain in the treasury market for, you know, maybe another couple of quarters or two. but they're getting pressure from both sides. elizabeth warren wants them to end this waiver, and then the bond market is saying please

extend it because we need the banks to buy more treasuries. >> right >> these are important things, but, you know, one economic number or one data point somewhere else, when you're just talking about low yields, there's a lot of things that go into it, it's nice to at least beware of all of these things peter boockvar, you named it after your view of the stock market, bleakley don't tell me you like the markets because that's trouble you don't like them now, do you? >> for the past year, i said this was a week before the pfizer news, i said the market needs to shift their attention to the open stock. >> shift, okay >> go back to the cape >> we have it. we'll look at that i'll have maybe someone can go back or someone can tell someone that they know to go back and do that we may do that thank you, peter boockvar, that

would have been a shift for you over the years because you're worried about the crazy fed and the over valuation, and all that stuff. that's usually what we hear. anyway, thank you. andrew >> coming up on the other side of this, joe, today marks the biggest ipo from a foreign company, we have everything you need to know about coupang, the amazon of south korea. we'll talk about it next the ceo is going to join us first on cnbc right here on "squawk. we're back after this.

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a fund that invests in the innovators of the nasdaq-100 like you become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq welcome back to "squawk," our executive edge, the largest foreign ipo on a u.s. exchange since alibaba starts training, it happened today, coupang prices at $35 a share, above the

target range, as seems like with every ipo, valuing the company at $60 billion that's ecommerce dominating the market, and it has had quite a journey to get to this moment. >> coupang is an ecommerce giant in the largest market not dominated by amazon, walmart or alibaba. it was founded by bom kim who dropped out of college to start this company: i got the chance to visit him in seoul in 2018. >> we started off with the group on type model. the consistent vein through all of those iterations, through that evolution has been a spirit that we all often refer to in our motto, let's create a world in which customers ask, how did i ever live without coupang. >> in its filing, it generated $12 billion in annual revenue

for 2020 a 91% increase year over year, net loss narrowed to 475 million from 699 million in 2019 coupang's end-to-end logistics network called rocket delivery promises next day or faster delivery for nearly all of its orders and nearly 75% of those rocket deliveries are box less. among risk factors listed in the company's filing, coupang warned it could lose market share to competitors if we donot innovate or compete effectively. >> coupang has it cut out for them amazon is trying to make end roads in south korea. >> one of coupang's biggest backers is softbank which invested $1 billion in 2015, another billion in 2018. bringing the last private market valuation to $9 billion. >> if we can solve it for this market, there are going to be a lot of other markets. >> and while coupang has succeeded in the densely populated south korea, time will

tell how it can form in new markets, especially as we see residents residents fleeing from packed cities it was ranked number two on the 2020 cnbc disrupter list, and we will talk with the ceo live here on cnbc. $60 billion valuation, literally just weeks ago, people thought it would be a $50 billion valuation and a year or two ago, it was half that so, maybe welcome to 2021, but we're going to talk to him about where coupang is going, and where it's headed in just a little bit in the 8:00 hour. >> that's more than roblox >> absolutely. >> 45 billion. >> makes sense >> it makes sense that it has a higher valuation, i think. >> having seen the operations, it's a remarkable company. we talk about it as the amazon of south korea it's really amazon, doordash, instacart, it's all of those things combined. >> i can understand hat.

i was talking about roblox, i'm not sure about -- >> i would say i don't know about valuations but if i had to pick one company or the other, i would take coupang >> i've given up 350 again on gamestop. but they sell those cards. they sell those gift cards for roblox >> they're selling the gift cards. >> maybe it hits 500 today people get so mad still, don't they they get so mad. so mad about -- i'm not saying anything. >> you know who else is mad, the control room, they're saying move on, move on. >> did they say that >> when we come back. >> they didn't say it to me. i can feel it radiating from me, am i right, max? >> yeah. >> oh, you're not going to back me up, go ahead, joe, finish >> you want me to finish, this isn't my read. >> no, no, no. house democrats passing the $1.9 trillion covid relief bill. we're going to talk to peter

orszar about what it will mean for the economic recovery. >> and a huge lineup still to come, including the ceo of pfizer with a vaccine update, and the ceo of bumble, that stock is surging this morning. right now, as we head to a break, let's take a look at yesterday's s&p 500 winners and losers i made a business out of my passion. i mean, who doesn't love obsessing over network security? all our techs are pros. they know exactly which parking lots have the strongest signal. i just don't have the bandwidth for more business. seriously, i don't have the bandwidth. glitchy video calls with regional offices? yeah, that's my thing.

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welcome back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc take a look at what's moving this morning in the "squawk" stack, get your pancakes out, the dow looks like it would open up just marginally higher. we're going to look at the nasdaq, it's going to open marginally higher as well. roblox, take a look at where

roblox is right now, up 12%, and gamestop, though, on the flipside, down about 8%. the ten-year note, alan greenspan, looking at the bottom line at 1.49, now 7% becky. >> thanks, andrew. the house narrowly passing the $1.9 trillion covid relief bill. direct checks, jobless aid and money for other programs it comes as the nation begins t emerge from pandemic shut downs. joining us to talk about the economy is peter orr szag >> great it to be with you. >> before we start on this, i'm very sorry for the passing of vernon jordan, he was someone a lot of us looked up to and respected, and i know you were close to him he had been at lazard, he had been there for 20 years. >> a great man and a great

colleague. we miss him. >> we all do let's talk about this package and what it means. i know you were in favor of this passing. it's here, now what? what will this mean for the economy the rest of this year and beyond >> look, i think we are looking at 6 to 7% growth for the u.s. economy this year, and stop and think about it, if that's accomplished, it will mean that the u.s. could very well grow more rapidly than the chinese for the first time since 1976. so this is, i think, appropriate to the moment. >> wow. >> exactly it is of that order of magnitude. and we still have some head winds, we're still not out of the woods. there are 4 million americans who have been unemployed for more than 27 weeks, but there is a lot of support coming and, again, i think you see it in ceo confidence boosting, you see it in a variety of indicators suggesting that this year could turn out to be, again, quite

strong from an economic growth perspective. >> if that's the case, as things really get rolling along, and we actually start to see some of this economic growth, do you think there's any way we're going to be staying near the 1.5% that we're sitting at for the ten-year treasury right now? >> this comes back to the debate about inflation. we're going to see upward pressure on inflation. for a variety of reasons, some of which are technical the big question is it temporary or permanent put me in the temporary camp i think there's a whole variety of reasons to believe, including the fact that we don't have recently history of very high inflation, which affects psychology and expectations to think that we're going to have a temporary blip here in terms of pressure on prices but that it won't be permanently perpe perpetuated out over time, and that's also because don't think that this is going to go on forever, that 6 to 7% growth is not a permanent feature. it's a temporary thing as we come back on the other side of

that there will be some downward pressure on pricing, too >> i ask because i know the next thing that lots of democrats are looking to is what happens with the infrastructure bill. is that something that can get passed if interest rates remain at 1.5% maybe it has better odds than if interest rates start to skyrocket or not even skyrocket. if you get to 2, 2 1/2%, what does that do for the potential of an infrastructure bill. could it be as big if you're talking about deficit spending again. s >> i think one of the central debates coming over this infrastructure bill is exactly, does it need to be offset or partially offset, so if we go and spend another two or $3 trillion, how much of that should be deficit financed and how much of it should be offset by other spending cuts or tax increases in the budget, this is going to become the central debate over the next piece of legislation, and one of the difficulties is there aren't

that many offsets. they're certainly not in the 2 to $3 trillion range that could pass the senate. the question becomes how do you reconcile those two objectives i personally think if it comes down to climate spending, i would, if we don't have the offsets, i would do it anyway because my perspective is that the climate risks that we face over the next five to ten years is irreversible. the fiscal risk can be dealt with later if we need to, and i say that because if we go another five or so years without seriously altering the path to the energy transition, we are not going to be able -- if you get to 2030 and haven't made significant progress, you are not getting to net zero by 2050 because it's too hard to do given the glide paths. >> peter, you think there's any chance of that, though, because manchin said okay, i said yes to the $1.9 trillion covid bill but i'm not doing it again for an infrastructure bill.

he said flat out, no >> we're going to have to see how this plays out i think on the one hand i understand the concern that people may have about another deficit financed bill on their hand one of the most frequent experiences i had as the director of the commission of budget office would be to go up to a senator's office who wanted to offset the deficit effects with my big binder full of possible tax increases and spending cuts, walk through the list and realize they were in favor of deficit offsets in theory but when you looked at the details, everything single thing is very very hard to do. so i don't think we've reached the moment where the true tradeoffs have become clear yet. >> yeah, but my point is, you may not be dealing with a how do we pay for this, do we do offsets or deficit spending, you may be faces with a do we do this or not do this, if you can't get 50 democrats to agree on it. >> i think you will get 50

democrats in favor of infrastructure and climate because there's a widespread recognition that we need to do something. you're right that there's a debate over the size, but i think the key part of that is going to be how big is the offset piece and how big is the deficit finance piece. all of this, becky, i think you're absolutely right. all of this is still kind of in the early innings. i predict that this is going to be harder to do than many people currently suggest, and one reason is the one that you're highlighting, which is that the swing votes in the senate are basically in a much different place than the swing votes in the house, and that makes it quite complicated. it's also very early, and people, we don't really know where the exact cutoff points or the pressure points are yet because we're not yet in the middle of that debate. that's coming and it's going to be messier than most people think. >> and very quickly, we're out of time, but look, we saw this at the beginning of the obama administration when they pushed through the health care act, and they did it -- >> i remember.

>> in a single party way right. the single party way, you saw that there was to bipartisanship after that for the rest of the time are we in a similar situation here do you think there's actually any chance of every getting a bipartisan deal? because what you described just now i don't think you would get any republicans on >> i think we're in a highly polarized environment, and people will still seek bipartisan legislation but it's going to be hard on large pieces of legislation that doesn't mean it never happens. don't forget, we have done a lot of things over the past few years on a bipartisan basis. there was like a massive change to the way that application for federal student aid for college students work. they tend to be more targeted and kind of micro, and the na c -- macro stuff plays into the polarized environment. >> all right it's going to be a debate, and one we will be watching. peter, great to see you this morning. thank you. >> thanks for having me. all right.

coming up, china tightening its grip on hong kong overnight. details after the break. a reminder, you can watch or listen to us live anytime on the cnbc app, we're coming right back

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new overnight, china's parliament approved a draft decision to change hong kong's electoral system, further reducing democratic representation the changes virtually eliminate any possibility of opposition parties affecting the outcome of elections by stacking an electoral committee with pro beijing members. that committee will then choose a city's chief executive as well as many city legislators a new mechanism will vet candidates and screen election winners' behavior to make sure only those seen as china

patriots will be able to rule hong kong. >> okay. thanks, joe. coming up, nft's, we're going to talk about them. they are all the rage. we're going to tell you about a christy's auction going on right now with an eye popping high bid with a token by the artist beeple robert frank joins us with the latest as we head to a break, check out futures, pointing to a i h higher open. we are right back after this

welcome back to "squawk," crypto is taking over christy's, the first nft expected to break records, and guess who's got the story, the one and only robert frank who covers all things money, and so much money sloshing around in this world, robert. >> yeah, these numbers are just getting insane, andrew, now you can now include the artist known as beeple with pi casso and

monett bidding doesn't close until 10:00 a.m., the top bid is $13.3 million for this nft which makes it far and away the most expensive nft sold the bids are likely to go higher right before the auction closes later this morning beeple actually set the previous record for an nft two weeks when the owner of this piece called cross road flipped it for $6.6 million nfts which are videos, memes, tweets, emojis, music, any digital asset that is assigned ownership on a block chain, they have now become a $400 million market jack dorsey turning his first ever tweet into an nft which now has a top bid of 2.5 million, and nbc highlight videos racking up sales over $200 million, and

sou and now they have no current plans to auction off any nfts. i suspect that after this number and this sale for this beeple now over $13 million likely to go higher i think all of that is going to change. let's talk nfts and we can get into bitcoin this is something i think a lot of people are trying to get their heads around it's become a market almost overnight. how do you think about it? >> what we're finding is intellectual property had no free market. there was no price discovery

whether it's nba top shot or this art or something else when art and intellectual property and technology meet in a free market, we're going to do that price discovery we 're seeing seven, eight figures. i think this is a pretty healthy, lots of volume market so it's pretty cool to watch >> and how much do you think about the fully digital universe versus the physical collective universe, baseball cards, basketball cards and the like and they're getting authenticated in a digital universe that get tied together? what do you think of the distinction of those >> this technology allows certain things to happen that can't happen in the physical world. for example, you take a sports team or an artist, they usually have a primary sale.

they sell their asset one time and there's massive secondary markets where they are trading hands two, three, five, ten times. now we're watching whether it's a sports team or artist, they can get a royal at this, it's baked into the technology. they can get paid every time their asset trades hands in terms of the collectible market, you'll see the black and white market gray. what happens when we put this stuff together and you can buy something that's tied together i'm not sure where it goes but i think there's a lot of really smart people working on this >> andrew, you have helped me with your michael jordan card because if it's -- if it's a c card, a physical piece of

cardboard in your box in your attic but somehow has value, i don't think it's that big of a leap to be on a blockchain other people have that card. >> yes, they do. >> even though there's more than one. suddenly it's digital. it's blockchain. people have the ledger it doesn't seem like it's that big of a leap of faith who cares about dusted off box in your attic? i would rather have it digitally. >> i will say this and i have to get this card graded at this point. >> it's even better digital because it's easier to do. >> no, in the digital universe there's one version of it and it's always in mint condition, right? what makes the card universe or even art or all sorts of other things is that, you know, there might be thousands of michael jordan rookie cards but there are some with a torn corner,

some have a wrinkle in the middle, some printed with a black line in the wrong place and that's what makes it -- i don't want to say that's what makes it art, but that's what makes the different versions of it distinct. in the digital world none of them are distinct. that's why some people have a hard time understanding the distinctions. >> hey, andrew, can i say anthony makes a good point about how the player or if it's the artist or whoever it is will now get a royalty on this. that is a better proposition for the artist, athlete or anybody involved is it a better proposition though for the investor? >> i think ultimately what we're watching is the reduction of middlemen. now when you get the asset owner, asset creator meeting the investor, one, you're getting a more pure price discovery. investors want these assets. you couldn't buy jeff dorsey's first tweet. the fact that it's only worth

2.5 to $3 billion, if we wait five years there's nodoubt it will sell for $10 plus million more and more people have access you don't have to go to an art auction. you don't have to physically be there to buy something you can go on the internet and you can bid for owning these assets >> anthony, how much do you tie the success of nfts to the success of crypto and bitcoin to the success, can i say it, of things like gamestop and just the interest and all are those things connected or not in your mind >> let's start with nfts and crypto, bitcoin, et cetera, it definitely helps, but i think that what we're just watching is we are seeing kind of the old boys club of wall street and the financial system being broken down again, anyone in the world can now go on to an open decentralized protocol with an internet connection and they can play the same game

there's a level playing field. when you start to look at things in the traditional role of gam gamestop, that's a macro thing we have a federal reserve pumping liquidity into the market people are finding their extra money in bitcoin, crypto, everything seems to be going up against the dollar that's more macro environment situation. >> tom, always good to see you thank you. >> thanks, guys. >> we'll talk soon becks? >> all right thanks, andrew when we come back, a big lineup ahead including the ceos of pfizer, her 2 financial, bumble. "squawk box" will be right back. with 5g nationwide, millions of people can now work,

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. the dpau closing above 32,000 for the first time. market historian jeremy siegel will join us to talk about this big news virtu financial which lists robinhood among its clients talks about payment for order flow and the rise of retail investors, this, after gamestop

has another me tee or rick rise. game on for roblox making its debut on wall street. we'll talk about the company's value as the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now. welcome back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc i'm andrew ross sorkin along with becky quick and joe kernen. let's show you the futures right now. we should show you the squawk stack. the dow going 70 points higher, nasdaq 200 points higher and s&p up 23 points albert burla is out with a letter this morning. he says the loss of human life

from covid has been staggering he calls making vaccines in one year's time incredible they got the first approved covid-19 vaccine thanks to those efforts, liberation is on the horizon albert bourla will be our guest here on "squawk box" in just a couple of minutes. becky? >> thanks, andrew. the dow surging 464 points to a record close and the rotation away from growth stocks continued yesterday. check out just how far the dow has come since march 11th last year when the w.h.o. declared the pandemic it's been a year and you can see the market's drop leading up to that day and then what's happened since kind of phenomenal the dow up 27% joining us is jeremy siegel. professor of finance with the university of pennsylvania's wharton school jeremy, you've got an interesting take on what comes next we had the stimulus bill that

passed what do you think that leads to? >> i think that's more fuel on the fire so to speak last night i ate at a restaurant inside first time in a year. more and more people are going to be doing that it was a great feeling you know, there's this pent-up demand i think this economy is going to do great before this bill and now there's more money, but particularly i pointed out for nine months how much money, record amount of money in the system that's got to go to financial assets and i do believe much higher inflation and higher interest rates, but i think stocks will be able to surround these higher interest rates even though there will be pressure on the fed, hey, when are you going to start to slow down this higher inflation

but the biden administration wants this economy to run hot. there will be a lot of political pressure to let it do so >> let's break that down a lot of different ways. to this point a lot of people have thought if bond yields rise that is going to mean that stocks will go down, bonds will look more attractive as a result tepper says he thinks there's going to be a cap on bonds that's a separate story. let's say we'll all get to the same conclusion. you think stocks are the place to be. you think bonds are going to rise, too. why do you think stocks will stay attractive in that environment? >> let's assume bonds go to 2.5 or 3. >> yeah. >> if in an environment where we have a 4, 5% inflation, which i really think is going to happen, that's still not attractive at all. remember, stocks are still real assets they're claims on real capital, real ideas, copyrights, individual property, et cetera,

they're going to maintain their value in an inflationary environment. dividend paying stocks dividends go up with inflation bond yields -- if bond yields are rising you take a double hit on it. you have less purchasing power on the bond and the bond price falls so we can't take advantage today of a bond yield 3% a year from now it actually makes the bond market that much worse compared to stocks. that's why the money is going to continue to flow into the stock market. >> you think the stock market is being shortsighted when they look at higher yields and start thinking, okay, the comparison here, maybe that's more attractive you think this is a short-term, short-sighted move how long are you looking down the road before the market figures this out >> well, eventually there will be a fed tightening and

eventually, you know, that tightening is going to pressure stocks and that fear i think is beginning to come through now but when i see the amount of stimulus come, i can see another 10% rise in stock prices, 10, 12% this year, then the fed gets more worried and the leveling off 2022, 2023 this we're still in the phase where the liquidity is going to push stocks over we're going to get those little, you know, fears that are coming through, but it's going to be overwhelmed, i think, by the strength of the economy and the rise in corporate earnings >> we just had peter orzak on and he says he thinks inflation is coming but he thinks it's temporary. why do you think he's wrong on that account >> well, i think because, you know, looking at -- being a

monetary theorist of a money supply increase last year was the greatest in our history. we have 150 years of historical data and i just have never seen liquidity increase like this far, far greater than the financial crisis far greater than world war i and world war ii where we saw bursts of inflation that follow all of this debt and all of this. i think we're going to have that 5, 6% inflation in 2, 3, 4 years. i want to be in real assets which are stocks yeah, so it will be temporary in the sense of once we get up there with another 15% higher consumer price indexes in a few years, then it might slow down, the fed will act, but until then, i think inflation is absolutely on the horizon. >> jeremy, do you think there is any reason the fed might react

sooner if you start looking at treasury prices rise rapidly meaning it's going to cost more and more to finance all of this deficit spending that we're doing? >> let me tell you an interesting angle. i mean, i think powell recognizes what's going on but, remember, next year, early next year he faces reappointment. i think he's willing to go with this overheating and he's hoping for a biden reappointment next year at which point he will with a four-year term again as chairman feel freer to voice more concerns and to act on that inflation. so i think there's a little bit of politics going on over here yellen is on board treasury's always got to be on board with the president the fed historically has stood

independent, and as we know, has had leaders of different parties very frequently from the president or the congress and i think we have powell very mindful of this. he's playing along with this now i think next year is when they plan the move >> so david tepper earlier this week said he thinks bond yields are going to be capped at around 1.6 for now. he said temporarily because the japanese are going to become buyers, he thinks, with some signals he saw fromjapan over the weekend, he thinks that they are more likely to become net buyers of treasuries after being net sellers for years. is he wrong and you're right or is he right for the moment and you're right for the longer term how would you put together his thoughts with yours? >> my thoughts are that the

japanese buying, there might be a little bit of it i understand the swap spreads are now getting more favorable, but i think they're going to be swamped by inflation concerns and holding paper assets when prices are rising. so my feeling is, you know, last year i said that the 40 year bull market in bonds, and it was a 40-year market, is over, and i think a year, two, three, what were people thinking in 2020, even early 2021 buying treasury bonds at 1, 1.5, even 2% when inflation is raising 3, 4, 5%. we said the same thing right after world war ii people continued to buy those bonds because of memories of the depression and all the rest as the economy boomed and prices

moved forward. so i think these other macro forces are going to overwhelm any buying by the japanese in addition, a lot of people are talking about operation twisted. the fed didn't control the long end. i talked to james borne and i don't think they have any appetite for trying to cap those yields there will be a lot of talk about that, but honestly the fed is not interested in going back to the 1950s and early '60s and trying that experiment which really didn't work they control the short rate. they're going to let long rate go up and not worry about acting against the inflation i think until next year. >> professor siegel gives us a lot to think about thank you. we'll talk to you soon. >> thank you very much, becky. coming up, roblox worth as much as electronic arts?

jon fortt breaks down the company's debut and what it means. plus, investor playing pong with gamestop's stocks. "squawk box" coming right back and unmatched overall value. together with a dedicated advisor, you'll make a plan that can adjust as your life changes, with access to tax-smart investing strategies that help you keep more of what you earn. and with brokerage accounts, you see what you'll pay before you trade. personalized advice. unmatched value. at fidelity, you can have both. ♪ more than this ♪ we see homes staying cooler, without the planet getting warmer.

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one year ago the world

changed. we learned the world was go to change that time for the better. the day pfizer announced the covid vaccine was more than 90% effective. it was a powerful moment here they are in their own words. >> the closer you get to the results, the more you become, oh, my god, oh, my god, is this going to work or not >> i was outside in the backyard with my mask on of a friend's home and i got -- my cell phone went off i got up and i took it because the people that have my cell phone are people who i should probably talk to, and it was albert bourla who is the ceo of pfizer and he said, you're not going to believe this but the results are absolutely amazing it's well over 90%. >> albert bourla called just as

the press lease was coming out saying efficacy is 98% it was incredible. it was like one of those moments of joy that you remember forever. >> it was like, oh, my goodness gracious it was sort of like the -- a bright ray of sun pushing all the clouds away. that was an incredible feeling that night. >> it was kind of liberating because that's the minute you know, ultimately we're going to take back control of our lives from this virus. >> and we're thrilled to tell you that pfizer's chairman and ceo albert bourla will be our very special guest in a few minutes here. first, up next jon fort is going to be here for this week's edition of on the other hand we'll talk about the debut of roblox on wall street. my kids are going to be watching we're back after this. time now for today's aflac trivia question.

black monday occurred on october 19, 1987 two months later this e sw wwinning film was released. thanerhen cnbc "squawk box" continues go aflac!!! what the heck, troy - that's not your kid! the aflac duck is just covering for sophie. same way he got me money to help cover her hospital bill when my health insurance didn't pay for all of it. but this isn't fair! that's exactly what i said! but then i learned health insurance isn't even supposed to cover everything. wait...for real? for real real. luckily i had aflac. aflac!!! get help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover. go aflac! !mm-hm! get to know us at aflac.com. !mm-hm! labradoodles, cronuts, skorts. (it's a skirt... and shorts) the world loves a hybrid. so do businesses. so, today they're going hybrid with ibm. a hybrid cloud approach lets them use watson ai to modernize without rebuilding, and bring all their partners and customers together in one place. that's why businesses from retail to banking are going with a smarter hybrid cloud

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now the answer to today's aflac trivia question. black monday occurred on october 19, 1987 two months later this oscar winning film was released. the answer "wall street. >> greed, norfor lack of a bettr word, is good. >> money never sleeps, pal that song was a prominent part of that movie. gaming company roblox making its debut on the new york stock exchange this week investors were excited and after the initial trade the company had a valuation that was just mind boggling and john fortt absolutely thinks it's -- it deserves it and at the same time thinks it's absolutely crazy, i think. have i got that right? how much is it worth, jon? >> let's contrast that with

electronic arts. let me just tell you, joe, how much roblox is worth it has 32 million daily active users. for 2020 it turned $1 billion in revenue up 80% that doesn't capture what roblox represents here. it has the ingame of fortnite and mine craft and the creator energy of youtube. while many gaming companies are trying to figure out platforms that generate subscription revenue, roblox has done it. valuations are a bit lofty here, sure, but there's a reason for that investors are giving extra credit to companies whose models are proving to be especially effective during the pandemic. when it comes to gaming you won't find many examples of that than roblox, joe >> what you just said is impossible to -- don't even -- wedon't even need to go any further. you're right i think that's all true. there's another side

>> joe, i mean, on the other hand, let's put down the game controller and get serious for a minute electronic arts should be so much more than roblox. that means it's trading about 40 times last year's revenue. electronic arts is going to have more than 6 billion in revenue for fiscal 2021. it's trading 6 times roblox is growing faster, sure, come on. roblox added 400 million in revenue in 2020. electronic arts is expected to add twice the revenue dollars, about $800 millionin the fisca year that ends this month. if you think roblox can keep growing at pandemic lockdown speed coming out of it, you're delusional to justify a market cap on par with ea it would have to roblox is 32 million daily active users are impressive. what's more impressive for a $40 billion market cap, pinterest, 416 million monthly active users. any way you look at it now,

roblox isn't worth this money robucks. >> we were going to talk about one being the future, roblox, and electronic arts maybe being the past and i em might yaetly thought if electronic arts is the past, what is gamestop how does that figure into all of this >> gamestop is also the past, which is why it was -- >> the past past. >> the past past, but there's this hope with the talent that they have on the board at this moment where so much is changing in gaming they can leap ahead. look at zynga, that was sort of supposed to be a has been. they grew up during the social gaming that's long past it didn't acquisition. that's supposed to get it more into the platform era. so many players here amazon and google trying to do streaming games. ea transforming. now you have the roblox type players coming in. the one who figures it out is

probably going to have a lot of growth in the future question is who's going to figure it out. >> right i can see what you're saying if you can go digital, i understand that. it just seems like all of the brick and mortar locations, maybe they're worth something. right, john? >> well, i don't know. if you transform it and you have some kind of vr thing happening there, maybe. >> magnolia? magnolia, best buy, something like that. >> something like that apple stores those are probably going to come back it depends where these things are. there's a lot in the mall. >> another otoh segment. >> there's no shortage, joe. >> all right, jon. thank you as always. andrew. >> joe, when we come back on the other side of this, pfizer ceo albert bourla is going to join us to discuss his open letter reflecting on the one year anniversary of the pandemic which came out minutes ago check out the futures ahead of

that interview we'll be back with the dow okg keloinli it would open 100 points higher right about now. back in a moment

welcome back to "squawk box. i'm dominic chu.

here's your market minute. some of the more active parts of the current market are showing up in the morning trade as well. check out what's happening with roblox shares up 10% in the pre-market which would put it by the way if it opens at these levels higher than the highest levels we saw yesterday during the first day of trading at its closing price of 69.50, it's worth $45 billion now we could see it worth $50 billion on a fully diluted basis. take also a look at what's happening with prices of gamestop $249.80 down 6%. at the highs you were talking around $372 thereabouts or 342, rather, over here and about 172 over here at the lows of the day. so a huge move intraday. one other place to watch as well, bitcoin prices are moving just a little bit here to the down side, about half of 1%.

56,073 near the pandemic lows all the way over here closer to $4,000 per token. this latest move has been up roughly 25% in the last few weeks kind of bounced off the near term low. keep an eye on bitcoin prices. 57,900 or thereabouts depending on how you look at it. i'll send things back over to you. >> we'll add it to the stack thank you, dom. when we come back, pfizer ceo albert bourla reflects on the one year anniversary of the pandemic and what comes next we'll be right back. investments,l snapshr key portfolio events, all in one place. because when it's decision time, you need decision tech. only from fidelity.

welcome back, everybody. we've got some news just out from cvs an update on the covid vaccine rollout. the company says it has nearly ducked the number of states where it has pharmacies offering the jabs, 1200 stores in 29 states and puerto rico karen lynch says the company now has the capacity to administer 20 to 25 million shots a month that would be if they were to

have this open up in all of their 10,000 stores or so. that's not the case and that would be based on availability this is the thing, guys, we've been hearing for quite some time from people like scott gottleib. if you get it out to walmarts, cvss, walgreens, you would be in every community and they could do this very rapidly because this is what they do they're very good at offering vaccinations and they do it every year with the flu shot and other vaccines too 20 to 25 million shots a month they could do. cvs says from march 3rd through yesterday teachers, school staff members and child care workers actually made up more than 30% of the covid vaccine appointments at cvs pharmacy locations.

bumble shares lost shares. they had 31% revenue growth year over year. bumble reported 2.7 million paying users of its app. that's up 32.5% from the prior year we're going to talk to the ceo whitney wolf herd. we have another big one coming up after this. pfizer ceo albert bourla we have the ceo of market maker virtu financial. he'll talk gamestop, rise in reddit stocks and payment of order flow he'll break it down and i imagine we'll have a fascinating conversation about it. as we head to a break, a quick check on the sawquk stack. stay tuned, you're watching "squawk" on cnbc

♪ ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

welcome back to "squawk. some dramatic swings yesterday for game stock stock surging to nearly $350 topping its record closing price from late january only to drop 40% in 25 minutes. by the close nearly all of yesterday's gains were gone. we're looking at that stock now at about -- up about 5%. joining us to talk about that but even more importantly everything that underlies this issue, virtu financial ceo doug

sequin is here doug, it's great to have you on the program. i'm so glad we could do this i was talking about order flow earlier this week or i should say payment for order flow earlier this week and you tweeted at me, told me i got it wrong. >> i did. >> we had a fabulous conversation -- >> yes. >> -- where as you noted, you called me some names along the way but i wanted to get you on so we could have this conversation >> i apologize for that, andrew. >> no, no, no there's a narrative out there that i think that you think is wrong and i want to -- i just want you to have the opportunity to talk about it >> yeah. >> which is that underneath throb bin issue is the idea of payment for order flow robinhood is directing trades to you and citadel and that the argument is -- or the argument against this is customers are not getting the best price that

they possibly could and even worst suggestions that firms like yours effectively are front running those trades, right? that is the narrative out there. i want -- given the conversation we have -- for you toexplain how it actually works in practice. >> sure. great. i appreciate it. thank you very much for having me on. i think the issue is -- you set it up in the intro people conflate two different concepts there's this concept of wholesaling which goes back 35 years. a bunch of really smart guys at the retail brokers that were the pioneers back then said there may be a better way to execute client orders rather than sending them to what was the only exchange in the new york stock exchange they approached the virt twos and csit -- virtus and citadels if we send you these, can you improve the price? can you give us better execution quality than our clients would ultimately get on an exchange?

so that's the fundamental premise of wholesaling we have 200 retail brokers, platforms, wealth managers, et cetera, that every day are saying, look, we have an obligation of best execution do we send this order to remove liquidity to an exchange, dark pool or to a wholesaler, the 5 or 6 of us that compete every day on the execution quality the key thing is we are providing a price. better than you could get on an exchange every single broker, including robinhood, is making those routing decisions with that in mind and only that in mind not based on a rebate that we might otherwise be paying which people call payment for order flow. >> doug, explain this. robinhood uses payment for order flow fidelity doesn't. >> right. >> they both use you what's the difference? >> well, i think, look, the difference is that consumers have choice, right

there's a lot more to using one of those two platforms and it's 200 odd different retail brokers, platforms, et cetera you can go to. the analogy i would use is i get gas from my car. i live in short hills, new jersey there are three stations really competitive solely on price and a station a little bit further away i know it's a nickell a gallon more ultimately there's transparency around price but there's other things there's financing rates for margin loans there's education. there's research this and that. at the end of the day investors make the informed choice as long as there's transparency, andrew, there's nothing wrong. whether you're a robin hood client or fidelity client you are getting a price better than the national best bid or offer nothing nefarious going on here. >> just so i understand. if robinhood were to send those trades to a linked exchange

you're telling me that they would get worse execution and worse pricing? >> categorically, yes. in this global information, we produce every month be what we call a price improvement statistics it's all publicly available. in 2020 all of the wholesalers, virtu, sigma, susquehanna, we provided $3.7 billion of aggregate price improvement to retailers in this country. that's what is so frustrating. because of innovation and competition it means that a retail investors can go on one of these little things and for zero and get a price that is on the screen or better than what's on the screen, right, and get that done instantaneously, right? we should be celebrating the efficiency and competition in the market. >> so, doug, again, you can tell me that i'm wrong. the narrative that's being created here is that this is a facebook situation. >> yes. >> that the customer is not --

that robinhood's customer is not actually the end user. robinhood's customer is you because you're the one paying them >> no, it's actually the opposite of facebook zero client information. i've seen that narrative out there. you mentioned it the other day on tv. which is why i had my tweet storm with you there's no client information. all of these orders, millions of them a day, small little orders. no storing of data the market maker has no information. orders are coming at us and we have to execute them you mentioned gamestop yesterday. when there's a barrage of information like that, i looked down at my gui and i looked up and we lost millions of dollars. all of a sudden the market tears against us that's the conundrum of the market maker there is value to us, uniquely to the virtus and the citadels as the market maker in trying to

capture the market spread. you mentioned your grandmother when you were interviewing ken griffin. it was a great interview you were saying it's not fair because your grandmother is competing against citadel. she's not. she's buying stock for your kids because she's thinking over the next five years they're going to appreciate the tiny little difference between what a willing buyer and willing seller is willing to pay which is called a bid offer spread, that's what virtu and citadel have spent hundreds of millions of dollars so we can profit from that what we're doing is sharing some of that profit back to the end user in price improvement and yes in a number of cases there are a number of retail brokers that take a rebate the market maker is profit sharing back to the retail broker the retail investor is really ultimately benefitting this. it's not at all the narrative that has been described. >> that's not dealing with payment for order flow at fidelity ultimately getting a

better price from fidelity than the robinhood investor >> individually the answer is it really depends overall, right, through the course of a month we will provide more price improvement to fidelity than we do to robinhood but, again, ultimately every single investor at robinhood and fidelity is getting a price that is better than the national best bid or best offer. >> why are you providing better -- just so i understand why providing better to fidelity than to robinhood customers? >> there's only an aggregate amount of bid offer spread in the universe our deal, if you will, with all of the 200 odd retail brokers that we deal with, there are 10 or so of them that take a rebate and the vast preponderance don't. what we do every day is try to capture as much bid offer spread as we possibly can it's negotiation with each of our clients to say, hey, if we're going to capture 100 units, we can give you 70 units back as far as we're concerned, we're switzerland.

what they do with that price improvement or rebate is ultimately their decision. i can tell you that each of those brokers and virtu is surveilled constantly by the sec and finra for best execution practices. >> we have 30 seconds. i need to understand this. somebody from healthy markets that makes the argument that effectively it's an artificial price improvement makes this suggestion, suppose i try to buy 10 shares of stock the best offer for 25 shares is $10 but the best protected is $10.03 if i buy at $9.99 they would say my price improvement was $3.01 per share. they're saying i wasn't and turning it around and saying you could get it at $10.29 in which case they would make their argument the price improvement was a tenth of a penny they were just ropd of 2.9 cents. >> he's wrong and the narrative is wrong because the broker dealers that we deal with, you

gave a couple names before, fidelity, schwab etrade which is now another company, they understand they are the odd lots they are literally routing flow based on the price we provide to odd lots based on what the prices are there may need to be some reforms in terms of how all of that is scored and we are that he favor of that but ultimately the supposition that the retail brokers haven't figured that out and there is a nefarious deal is categorically wrong. >> doug, we want to thank you for coming on. >> appreciate it. >> hope we can continue this conversation and do more with it i know people have a lot of questions about it and continue to very much appreciate this right now. >> thank you very much, andrew appreciate it. >> you bet good to see you. becks? >> pfizer ceo albert bourla sharing an open letter on the company's website reflecting on the one year anniversary of the

world health care organization and covid-19 meg tirrell joins us. >> reporter: thank you very much that special guest is albert bourla thank you for being with us on this one year anniversary mark you have this amazing vaccine and more data coming out this morning from real world use in israel, and i honestly had to check this stat multiple times to make sure i understood it 94% effectiveness in preventing asymptomatic infection on the ground in israel tell us what you're finding there and what this means for stopping this virus. >> thank you, meg. it is great opportunity, i think, in this day of the first anniversary of the declaration of the pandemic we have message of hope coming from a country where they have vaccinated -- on monday 5 million of their people small number but for israelis that means they have vaccinated more than 55% of their

population, more than 80% of the eligible population, 16 and above with the vaccine the data is telling us three things i would say, meg. the first thing is they're concerning the efficacy. it's coming at 97% and that is not efficacy only against deaths or hospitalizations but also on mild disease so everything, all three measures, mild disease, hospitalizations and deaths are north of 97% in the real world millions of people vaccinated. the second thing as you pointed out. most important of all, it is the data are demonstrating 94% efficacy on asymptomatic this means that 94% protection against you getting infected even if you don't have the disease. this is really important, not particularly for you but for society. because the asymptomatic carriers, the asymptomatic

patients are the ones that they are spreading the disease. so this is the first time that we were expecting to have something good in terms of preventing asymptomatic but this is the first time they're coming with a confirmation of the real world evidence study of that magnitude and of course we never expected that high number, 94% >> and also very interestingly, this was -- this evidence was collected during a time when that b.1.1.7, highly contagious variant was dominant in israel it shows that your vaccine is equally or even more effective than we saw in the clinical trials with that variant tell us what pfizer is doing to stay ahead of the mutations in the virus. what you're looking at in terms of booster shots and what you expect in terms of the efficacy against some of the other concerning variants. >> europe's right. this is the third very important

thing that comes out of this study. 80% of the strains, 80% of the u.k. strain over there, we see these results. this is promising against variants what we are doing against variants we have already initiated a study that we will try to stick to things if we boost our vaccine with the same doses of vaccine at 6 months and if we boost our vaccine with adapted vaccine for the south african variant, again, six months involved we will see if first of all we don't need a boost because we have very good protection already with the two doses that the reasonable scheduleis or i we cannot see better protection by giving a third or moving to a new vaccine but all of these

studies, we have initiate them or already started dosing with the boost, we will jump into a few weeks into the new variant and we will have some evidence if there is a need to do something different than what we are doing right now. >> so you're testing those booster shots at six months. i wonder how you're looking at the virus right now and the immune response generated by the vaccine. it's only a year into this pandemic a brand-new virus. we've only had the vaccines for a few months so it's hard to know what are you planning as a company? are you modeling this could be a twice-a-year shot people have to get? >> of course of course we are modeling. we believe we are optimistic you're optimistic pretty soon the supply may not be an issue we may face other logistics, how to vaccinate all of these people or make sure people get the

vaccine, but supply after a few months i don't think will be an issue at least from our side right now as we announce to the world we're about to make more than 2 billion doses, actually i reviewed with my team our manufacturing readiness recently and right now on the steady state, for example, on the entire '22 we will be having a capacity of 3 billion doses. that will be if you have the run rate of what we are doing right now. it will be north of 2 billion only this year full year capacityof 3 billion doses. this is good enough to supply very, very big part of humanity. >> albert, very quickly. just we have been arguing for some time that it doesn't matter which vaccine you get, if it's moderna, if it's faiz, if it's j&j because we said it wasn't really apples to apples, that

they were being tested at a time when all of these new variants were out there and when the case count was higher, too, so likely the effectiveness was much more similar. based on this new information that you're hearing, should i still feel that way? i would still get any shot because i know that all of them are likely to keep me out of the hospital i won't die if i get any of them i won't die from covid but if you do pick up a mild version of it, even if it's not something that sets you down, could you be more likely to transmit it to somebody else in your household or someone else you come in contact with who has not been vaccinated? >> look, i'm getting this question a lot i don't think it's adequate for me to speak about it i tell my family or relatives who ask me, if you get an appointment for pfizer vaccine and the center will give it to you in two months and you can get an appointment for another

vaccine j&j this week, i urge you go and do the j&j vaccine. >> i understand that entirely. and i think that that is the right thing to do and i think that is what i would do, but if you have someone who can't get the vaccine because they have some other issue, they have cancer, their' child, they can't get it, if you get a mild grade version of this, are you likely to transmit it to somebody or does it cut down no matter which vaccine you get, does it cut down the transmitbility at that level? >> i don't know. what i know is our vaccine is blocking -- is protecting against asymptomatic infections to 94% i don't know the data about j&j and moderna. >> hey, albert, great to see you. again, thank you >> thank you. >> just on behalf of everybody my question, there was a great story about you and pfizer on the cover of "newsweek."

there was an interesting question about the profit center and your company will make a very good and more than healthy profit off of this over the next couple of years. you hope and the board hopes j&j chose not to and i'm curious how you think about that in this context. >> i don't want to bring this up to make comments about others. in our case, we could make the following decisions. one was that we didn't take any taxpayer money to develop. we took all there is from our shoulders. we did that because that would allow us to price at higher levels we price it actually even smaller prices than other similar vaccines it was the case we did not take the money because we liberated our scientists of having to

report, have to create with those who gave us the money what would be the study design. we took the risk but we were able to cross the finish line soon the second decision we made was give it at a cost, the price in the u.s. is the price of a meal. clearly delivering vaccine to the world is higher. economic higher. economic value that it brings to the world is tremendous. so we decided to capture a very, very small part of this value because we didn't want to abuse, let's say, our position but we could do that. so that's all i have to say. i think that the price for all-americans is free right now. the price to the government is a fraction of what the economy is gaining. i don't think it's appropriate to discuss the price of a vaccine of a meal that saves the world. >> fascinating discussion and different approaches to doing something like this, albert.

we have to go, but one last question for you i know -- >> if you will allow me. i wanted to add something, meg being the low income countries like africas or some countries in the middle east, we do give it at cost, right? so for those at even the -- it's a low price of a meal, it's a problem. we do give it at cost. we don't give it at cost but we give it at very, very low cost in high income countries sorry, meg, go ahead. >> it makes sense. we have to go to commercial, albert have you gotten your shot yet? >> i did i did. i did my second shot a few days ago and tweeted about it and i felt liberated >> reporter: wonderful thank you so much for being with us >> my family haven't received it yet but i hope pretty soon we'll find we can get them vaccinated

as well. >> reporter: i hope so too you know now that the asymptomatic transmission is cut down albert, thanks again >> thank you, meg. meg, thank you thank you to albert. not only for coming on today but more importantly for what he has done with this vaccine he and his team at pfizer, the other companies, they have given us so much hope. i can't wait to get my shot too. when we come back, president biden's $1.9 trillion relief bill receiving the final approval from the house and it could be signed into law as early as tomorrow. we'll debate what it means for the economy, small business and much more. that's straight ahead. plus, the ceo of today's big ecommerce ipo coupang is going to be the biggest listing in the united states since alibaba. c> later don't miss our first onnbc interview with bumble.

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emerson. consider it solved. a year of the global pandemic marks the first time we got the covid virus designation. weighing in on the grim anniversary a message of hope. meanwhile, on wall street we are getting ready for the first public trade of coupang. they just executed the biggest u.s.ipo of a foreign company since alibaba.

bumble, a big interview with the ceo whitney wolfe herd is coming up. the final hour of "squawk box" is coming up right now ♪ ♪ good morning and welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc. i'm joe kernen along with becky quick and andrew ross sorkin u.s. equity up 113 dow notched the 11th record close and broke 32,000 for the first time the nasdaq fell early and never quite recovered. it's getting a lot of that back today and today was the first time we didn't see a big move in that index we'll look at treasury yields. let's do it with the squawk stack. this is what the squawk stack

was created for. i didn't consult i got rid of gamestop and roblox and the dow for a second number one, to show you gold which i wanted to ask jeremy siegel about it if there's inflation and if everybody is looking for a store of value, what's happening with gold it's up at a weekly high but that is a six-month chart. i'm just positing, is bitcoin starting to replace gold i don't know there may be other things happening with gold. >> that's interesting. >> that's weird. that's weird. >> i bet it's investors who would have gone to gold but drawn to bitcoin that's fair. >> that's what i was thinking. >> something else. back to the squawk stack the german 10 year bund, yields on the 10-year bund just plunged after christine lagarde and the

ecb announced significantly faster bond purchases. so we had japan and yields dro dropping, maybe the hedge isn't going to be raised japan down today you can see that immediately happened we're going to head faster to bond purchases the 10-year on the squawk stack all the way down to 148. the squawk stack one more time what it was created for. it was created to get sponsor. so if you are out there and you're thinking about, wow, what would -- >> ihop. >> no, but that's an idea, ihop, can you hear me? >> denney's. >> fruity tutti fresh and fruity

from denney's? >> no. we're not searching for a sponsor here that's really good andrew, do you have any deal book money would deal book sponsor a squawk stack? do you have an expense account >> we have a little bit of marketing dollars we could put towards that >> can you think of a better place to do it >> i can't >> other than squawk stack. >> perfect synergistic audience. >> give them a freebie see what it's for. the deal book stack for the hour >> how quickly can we get sponsored by ars deal book i bet you they could put that up complementary initially and see what the response is love it. love it, joe here are the stories investors will be talking about. exactly a year since the world

health organization declared covid-19 was a global pandemic march 11th last year, 1,000 cases of covid in the united states now close to 30 million. more than half a million people have lost their lives in the country. vaccinations are ramping up. the cdc says more than 95 million have been given. pfizer ceo albert bourla joined us. >> i will tell you with all honesty what i tell my relatives or family when they're asking what to do if you try to get an appointment for a pfizer vaccine and the center will give it to you in two months or you can get an appointment for j&j this week, i urge you go and do the j&j vaccine. it's very important. >> president biden will give his

first primetime address tonight. shares are rising in pre-market. shares jumped 50% yesterday in the wall street debut that raced the gaming company's total market value to $45 billion. also check out the shares of movie theater operator amc the company said the covid-19 vaccine rollout and upcoming major releases would boost movie theater ticket sales this year that followed a quarterly loss from amc though revenue came in better than amc. 8 million patrons returned to the theater during the most recent quarter and i didn't have gamestop on the squawk stack did you do the math yesterday, the high and the low 175 -- >> 350 was the high? >> 175 to 350. >> then it's back to 220 today. >> i'm not a math major, but i have a calculator. isn't 350 -- have i got that --

>> almost double >> it's exactly double 175 to 350 nothing's crazy anymore. it's fine. it's good. >> no. no let's move on to totally sensible things and that's the house passing president biden's $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief bill and sending it to his desk. biden is expected to sign this measure tomorrow and joining us right now to talk about the likely impact on the u.s. economy is former white house chief of staff mick mulvaney who served as the director of management and budget and austan goolsbee and a professor at chicago's booth school of business this ought to be interesting do you think there's anything at all you two agree on when it comes to this? >>that joe owes me money i think we can agree on that >> joe's math is not bad, 175 to

350. >> i'll buy you a share of that, austan or bitcoin which do you want? >> mick, we'll start this out with you and what you think about this because it is going to become law. >> sure it is. he's going to sign it i think tomorrow he said probably talk about it tonight in the speech. listen, it's just a huge bill. it's a huge socially progressive bill i know austan wants to make it out as a stimulus bill or disaster relief ill, it's a huge progressive bill. which is fine. elections have consequences. the democrats won. they get to have their policies. i hate it when they talk about all the good things in the bill and they ignore all of the other things the money that goes directly to people is roughly 20% of the bill yes, there's $10 billion in here for medical supplies there's 35 times that in the bailout to the states. the amounts of money are just staggering i hope we can put the politics aside.

we've lost that argument the democrats are in charge. let's talk about the economics of this bill it's truly frightening when it comes to the size and effects on the economy. >> austan, what do you think what will it mean for the economy? >> i think it's going to be a positive for the economy i'm surprised by the argument that the economy is -- the implicit argument is the economy is great, therefore, let's not do something like this the reason this has got the support of 76% of the american people and a majority of republicans is because outside of the group of people who are living off of stock market wealth or who have knowledge economy jobs that can be done from home, it's still a brutally bad situation in the economy we've still got more than 10 million people that lost their jobs in the crisis that have not come back to work. the chairman of the fed is saying that the properly moesch urd unemployment rate is still close to 10% and the economy

does need disaster relief. i don't view this as a stimulus bill i think it is in the spirit of the c.a.r.e.s. act which we passed last year which was even larger which is let's try to prevent permanent damage from taking place to hard-hit groups because of something that had nothing to do with them. >> austan, i understand that argument let me ask you what we heard from jeremy siegel earlier this morning, non-political view on this, he thinks this is going to really drive inflation and it's going to pick up steam you're going to see it play out in the bond market and bond yields will go much higher from here what would you say to that he's worried about the risk that could mean. >> i understand that argument. i would say two things first, the market is not afraid of that. and the fed chair is not afraid of that. if you look at the tips yield, it says that the inflation rate over the next 5 years is going to be 2.4%

if you look at what happens to the output gap, that is the -- what gdp growth is relative to potential, it's projected to put us over potential by about 1% for a year that's very similar to what happened when the trump administration cut taxes by $2 trillion when the unemployment plate was only 4.1% and that did not lead to inflation. it's similar to what happened at the end of the '90s. as aninsurance policy, i just think you want to run the economy hot. you don't want to go through the same mistake that we made last summer when the virus resurged and we needed more support and relief and we kept saying, let's wait and see if we need it, and that is what led to the stallout of the economy in november, december, and january of this year >> mick? >> oh, becky a couple of things. austan, it's good to see you, by the way. it's been too long

we should do this more often. >> good to see you. >> the $2.1 trillion on the taxes was a 10-year number this is a one-year number. this brings it to $6 trillion new money coming into the government all of it borrowed. let's talk about inflation everybody watching this with the exception of becky is old enough to know what inflation is which is too much money chasing too few goods. we stimulated the economy by lowering taxes but did it as part of a supply side initiative including dramatically reducing regulation making it easier to produce goods and services the biden administration is getting ready to stick another $2 trillion in a single year, we were doing it over 10, into an eco economy. this is a formula for inflation. i want to talk about who inflation hurts.

this is only going to hurt the rich people, et cetera, et cetera it's not the case. inflation hurts the middle class, the lower class and the elderly. so many people watching the show don't remember what inflation is my family was building houses when interest rates were 12, 14, 16%. it was debilitating to the middle dlas. yes, austan, people -- >> mick, i think we've lost your audio there. also yelling at me that we're out of time. fair point on both of these. i like you two together. i'd love you both back mick, by the way, i do remember. my parents were buying homes during the periods of those high inflation too. you put me in the uncomfortable position of that i'm old or stupid i'll take the old. mick, thank you. austan, thank you. joe, i think you have a quick comment, too, don't you? >> austan, i just wonder whether he's clued in to what's really going on here, ustan

i mean, the longer i wait for that money i owe you with the democrats in charge and with the fed where it is, you're going to end up with one taco by -- with what the dollar is worth after you're done managing this country, i'm going to be paying you back -- >> i want my ability on the squawk stack. >> the price of one taco that's about what you're going to get a year from now after you've screwed this up >> wait a second we did not agree on a sum nominal to the dollar value. >> i'll pay you in bitcoin mick, you like that, right how's that the dollar value of what i give you is going to be a pittance by the time you're through, austan. >> talk to the tips. why do they not think there's inflation? they know you owe me money and it's going to cost you. >> we've got to go thank you. thank you for putting up with that anyway, andrew >> okay. two big interviews you do

not want to miss first, the head of south korea's answers to amazon. the ceo of coupang as we get set for the highly anticipated wall street debut the biggest foreign ipo and then bu bumble's ceo breaks down her situation. or silver #1 for diabetic dry skin* #1 for psoriasis symptom relief* and #1 for eczema symptom relief* gold bond champion your skin (soft music) (announcer) this is chet. he loves monday through friday but lives for the weekend. ♪ he's put some miles on his truck and now, it's time for something new. so he came to truecar and saw what other people paid for the same truck he wants. ♪ now, he can recognize a great price. truecar was so easy, chet was in and out and got right on back to the life he loves. before you buy a car or truck, see what others paid for it

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coming up next, the ceo of the company that just pulled off

the biggest ipo of an asian company since alibaba. might call it the amazon of south korea. coupang ceo will be with us. we're watching "squawkoxon cn bc b"

woem come back just completed on the u.s. exchange since alibaba. >> it's been quite a ride. the former private valuation is up six times since we last spoke.

it's doordash, insta cart all in one in south korea i've talked a lot about it lots of companies have been trying to buy you for years. talk to us about the path to profrltbility. the losses have come down. we have been aligned and unwavering i think we will continue to remain focused we're really, really excited. >> we'll continue to invest in the regional areas continue to invest in the

technology and end to end integration. nobody has a clue. we're almost backwards to where you are. an executive said they were going roller blading because you can place an order as late as midnight, he placed an order for roller blades before he went to bed. in the morning it was waiting for him outside his door had those not been the right size, he could have left them outside the door

it's not just free returns, it's stress free returns. that's the kind of assurance we've been able to build. >> is this doable in any other country? the reason i ask is the density. so you've done something remarkable which is it's a fully end-to-end business. the density of seoul and south korea makes it possible to do this >> we certainly rolled this out nationwide in our most sense area but even the rural areas. a small slivers of it. this is just the beginning for us

they just made a deal with sk telecom to work with something called 11th street which is a competitor of yours. >> lots of great companies will serve our customers alongside of us >> guaranteed nationwide it's a unique service. unique foundation that we'll continue to build. we have 75% of shipments because of end to end distribution

>> we pick up the reusable bags. >> our investors, we've been very fortunate to partner with investors are long term. that dna will still remain there. >> if you are locked into it, brilliant, who knows what were able to find aws which was able to power and generate a whole other separate set of profits.

>> our investors understand the incredible value are always going to be aligned and will come back in the form of value for shareholders shareholders and customers have been aligned in the long term. for long-term investors we're excited to partner. >> is this a 10-year proposition? >> we're just in the early stages >> many of the companies you eluded to, we're excited to

enter i think you've been with us for many years. >> we've been covering you for many, many years soft bank will want to realize some of the game how much is something investors should be thinking about i think many of those investors are aligned with us. they understand this is just the beginning. i think that will see that in not only our investors today but the new investors we've been able to partner with

it really is something at core at our dna we are unwavering in the long-term vision >> we appreciate it. we wish you lots of luck with it. >> can i say something can i say one thing? >> please. really today, you mentioned this is the largest ipo -- foreign ipo since alibaba. it's a testament to the korean story. korea was one of the poorest countries with a gdp per cappit of $79 the creativity koreans have created is exciting. i think there's a lot that we're really proud of collectively today. >> it's a great success story. we wish you lots of luck.

>> thank you >> thanks, andrew. rick santelli standing by. >> the numbers please. beyond storms things are getting more accurate. 712,000 is the initial claims for this week. >> on continuing claims, 4.14. >> very similar to the headline initial. just under the initial to a bit

over 4.3 million and i totally understand it. i know the areas that have opened up in my part of town certainly seem to be getting a robust response. maybe new businesses will be birthed very quickly i think that may be the blind spot right now the central banks trying to put the glitter back they made it a bit peppier. we have to manipulate a little bit better bags to you, joe

>> that made the squawk stack, rick. >> that's not every day you get the 10-year bund on the squawk stack. that's the whole idea. very nimble. nimble jack be quick. >> nimble. we're going from nimble to numb. nimble to number steve liesman joins you with more >> a lot going on, joe let me just tell you that the total number of claims is actually ticking up.

seechg claims over the week of february 10th. better jobs numbers. this problem of 20 million people still receiving benefits because of shutdowns, it's going on all over the time, that's still a major, major issue out there. there is some improvement on the front end. on lagarde, i think it's an interesting story here what happened is she is responding to the tick up in yields that is becoming less negative over there in europe than it was before this will stabilize yields here.

>> thank you very much check in with you in a little bit. when we come back bumble ceo whitney wolfe herd will join us after her company's first quarterlrerty po as a public company. stay tuned, we'll be right back.

>> dating and connecting in what we hope will be a post pandemic world. ayuned "sawk box" coming right back.

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i'm joined by whitney wolf heard. >> good morning, julia thanks for having me so you are paying users faster than expected. revenues slightly faster than expected what's behind that and what's going on >> wehave a great opportunity. the market opportunity just in that alone is sensational and the way we do things differently really sets us apart we've always been committed to safety and protecting the cus customer this converts to paying

customers. >> but, whitney, i'm curious in terms of what's going on right now. we were talking about the vaccine. the fact that that's being rolled out economies are starting to open up again what are you seeing in terms of user trends and what do you see as they go out in person how is that going to change things >> so we think digital dating is here to stay so we have seen people leaning into this digital first dating they're having video chats then pre-pandemic people are going to meet in real life

we capture that early infection face you are tweeting to know them and vet them so we get to benefit from both sides. we believe this is here to stay. >> talk to us about future revenue opportunities. you have two paid subscription teergs pay to subscribe and may the monthly fee. are you looking at adding other subscription options, different price points or even generating revenue in other ways beyond subscriptions? >> julia, i think all of the above.

>> there are so many levels of experiences we can build there are laundry lists of experiences customers want that would help enhance their experience we are very anchored and focused. people who don't want co-workers to see them. is we will innovate and build and find it in a way that is conducive for you and optimize that and focus on growth overall.

>> for those customers that don't pay could you imagine offering advertising or things like that? >> we still think there are a lot of levers to pull consumables, one offs, subscription offerings the opportunity ahead is massive. think about what the individual spends in the real world their dating wallet. it's far beyond and you can imagine the opportunity to e extend that dating wallet beyond where it is. >> whit dmi, you've talked in the past about this bumble ff business which is very much nascent. give us when you can invest in the friend finding business. when could that become a revenu

generating part of the business? >> this is something we're excited about. >> this was a feature we built in 2015 that was an answer for what the community was asking for. they wanted to use bumble for platonic relationships this goes to show how important this market opportunity truly is it's surrounding bff to get it to the level we are happy with we plan to deploy real resources. we are laser focused on dating

so do not expect that to come in the way of our dating opportunity. i would not expect monetization for bumble ff until 2022. >> got it. give us an update on the internags expansion. >> this is one of our highest priorities we're so excited about this opportunity. >> the need for bumble around the world is vast. you can imagine the meaningful growth ahead we are very focused on western europe capturing the early growth of mexico and really reinvesting in that strategy.

>> whitney, a final question about women on boards. it's international women's month. what's your message to all of the companies out there. if they say they have a hard time finding candidates for the boards >> so make it a priority recognize the value. >> it pushes society in the right direction. we appreciate you joining us.

>> thank you >> thanks, julia great interview. great conversation when we come back. what to watch as we approach the opening bell futures, 40 minutes before we're going to open. open up 90 minutes higher on the dow. nasdaq up 205 points s&p 0 23 50uppoints stay tuned, you're watching squawk lately, it's been hard to think about the future. but thinking about the future, is human nature. at edward jones, our 19,000 financial advisors create personalized investment strategies to help you get back to your future. edward jones.

welcome back, everybody.

earlier today, andrew was interviewing the ceo of coupon and i want to give you an update, somebody i heard from, somebody we're familiar with, a friend of the show, kevin wrote in to say that he and stan drunkenmiller had been investors in coupon for the last five years or so, kevin has been on the board for about three years, and he was so complimentary, he said look, he really puts him on the level of bezos and edison, so impressed at what an incredible thinker he is i just want to throw that out. i didn't realize that kevin was on the board there. >> kevin and i were texting about this earlier before the interview. interestingly, before kevin, we didn't talk about this, bill hackman is one of the series a original investors when bond had just left harvard business school and he created a magazine which he sold and bill gave him money, it might have been bill hackman's best investment ever,

oddly enough so there's a lot of big names that are around our show and others that -- >> i would add sanders which is impressive enough. it's amazing i didn't want to jump in on the interview before because i wanted to hear what he had to say but i wanted to make that quick comment about the people who were close to him and we know pretty well about it. >> totally >> anyway, we should also mention european central bank president making some comments after the decision in the last hour to leave rates unchanged. steve liesman joins us with more on this and a big decision about buying of additional bonds that people paid attention to, too. >> yes, recapping that, becky, the ecv decided to accelerate its purchases under its pandemic emergency purchase program and it may have a positive effect on yield, the ecv saying it was doing it to avoid the tightening of financial conditions, ostensibly the rise in yields across the world tand

must have been something she said because la guard got to the podium there, started the press conference and yields reversed themselves and you be the judge if there is anything in here, but you see the yields rose again and the u.s. 10-year as well, and la guard said an unchecked rise in bond yields could lead to premature tightening and monitor the exchange rate for the impact on inflation and stands ready to use her instruments and real gdp ready to contract in the first quarter and compare it to the first quarter with 6% growth and expects vaccinations to spur rebound in 2021, i'll leave it there but you did have a positive effect, ostensibly the way ecb wanted it to go with a statement at 7:345 but over the -- 7:45 but over the course of the time when she was talking, coming back. >> ready to act and when she said that, i don't think she meant about stimulating more growth i think she meant about if we're wrong about inflation, and that might be it, right

i mean can we really just see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, really no problemo here with all we're doing here, it seems it is inevitable that you see some type of problem, price pressure, down the road. just seems like there is no way, and if so, then the yields aren't where they're supposed to be >> well, remember, joe, the central banks on both sides of the atlantic are aiming for higher inflation, they want to get away from zero, they want to get away from negative, so that's the program here, so if you get it, at least to some point, it's what they're aiming for, whether or not they should be aiming for it is a separate question but that is the standard goal of both central banks, just inflation at 2%, and neither central bank is close to its goal at the moment >> we got to go. have you asked bob on the show >> if you want bob on the show, i can certainly ask him but we would have to pre-tape because

bob doesn't usually get up to noon or 1:00 >> and have him follow some of our other guests, we have that problem with some of the other guests he's not still up. in previous times he might have been still up. anyway, we were talking about that yesterday i can't believe you have conversations with bob very cool. thanks let's get commentary from megan, director of portfolio strategy at verdins capital advisers and joe, senior director at verdins investment partners as well, and megan, i feel like the comments i'm getting from you, would have been perfect aweek ago, for, and we would have all been nodding, but given some of the developments this week, and some of the reporting we've done with david tepper, about rates maybe taking a bit of a pause, you just feel like they're headed higher, there is just no two ways about it, they're headed higher, technology is way too expensive, maybe you buy some dips but you better be careful even if you do that. is that about right? >> yes, absolutely and that's our long-term view,

that rates are, and you mentioned it earlier, just way too low considering what we're looking for, for growth, and even inflation over the next 12 to 24 months, but just this week, if you look at what may happen today, we saw what the ecb did, that was mentioned, and the next test for the treasury market will be the 30-year auction that we get this afternoon. if that goes off okay, it doesn't have to be great, we saw that yesterday, and you can see yields continue just to stabilize here, and that's what is the most important thing, because equity markets don't like rapid moves in the fixed income market. >> right, joe, i guess you always need to say near term, medium term, long term, talking about anything, and what's your view on, do rates immediately start to go back up again, near-term? >> well, we're basically normalizing society, and when you're normalizing society, you're also going to have to normalize risk assets from 2020 which was clearly abnormal, and saw such concentrated performance, so you're finally

seeing ubiquitous performance throughout equity sectors, and yields could clearly for a 10-year move back to where they were at the beginning of 2020, 1.92, but i would just encourage the viewers to look for diversified opportunities, across all sector, and when you look at technology, you don't want the emerging growth story, you want the established growth story, and the other day on the decline, i was able to enter into alphabet, to me that's an established growth story which provides an opportunity. >> megan, are you favoring value now, i guess if you think tesla is way too expensive, that goes without saying >> we still favor those value or cyclically oriented sectors, financials, industrials, energy, materials, and if you look, these are the sectors that have really lagged, over the past five years, and i mean just on a rolling basis, they're underperforming by about 10% per year and we're looking for a multi-year acceleration of economic growth. that should definitely favor these sectors over those more

expensive sectors like technology >> you bought alphabet, you said, joe, that's, i don't know, maybe that was value, but which way do you think the best way, the best path forward is, value or growth? >> yes, that's the answer. growth or value, the answer is yes. >> growth or value. >> this is a reflationary environment, joe that's what's occurring. we went through the same experience in 2016 when the very injured and impaired industries from the 2015 manufacturing recession, they recovered significantly. same story here in 2021, whether it's airlines, regional banks, consumer financing, oil and gas, construction, machinery, they're the injured, impaired industries from the pandemic and they're going to recover it doesn't mean that you're going to pair back significant allocations with what's working, and other sectors, like the established technology names >> right megan hornman and joe, thank you both, time to say goodbye, i

think the squawk stack should not turn into stocks to watch, like whatever people happen to be talking about, you know what i mean i think we need crude, becky, i think you're ride, crude, gold, nasdaq, maybe bitcoin, we'll see if it keeps being a story, and the 10-year, and then we work around the edges but it can't turn into, just, you know, stocks to watch, right? are you with me? and it's sponsor-able. >> i like the sponsor idea. >> make sure you join us tomorrow "squawk on the street" is next good thursday morning. welcome to "squawk on the street." i'm carl quintanilla, with david faber and mike santoli cramer has the morning off dow set for a record high at the open, 92 points. as there's bullish news on the vaccine and the fresh pfizer data, jobless claims down a touch, some rate stabilization, too, on this one-year anniversary of the