good morning it's 8:00 a.m. at apple cupertino, and 10:00 aa.m. on te east coast and "squawk alley" is live. ♪ ♪ and elon musk starting the show welcome to "squawk alley."

i'm here with carl quintanilla jon has the morning off. and nft sneakers sold, get this, in just seven minutes. evercore taking ap toll a new street high and we break down the latest season's "fortnite. >> recent volatility any tech stocks noting the last time we had this kind of divergence between the naz and dow back to the early 2000s and dotcom bubble and joining us, weighing in on what the environment's like now. welcome back good to see you. thanks for helping us kick off the hour. >> absolutely. thanks for having me. >> it's not just baron's b of a is fund manager survey new numbers saying biggest drop in tech exposure in about 15 years.

i wonder, what do you make of this narrative of a rotation out of tech, and if you believe it's happening, to what extent is it going to happen from here on out? >> i think what we're seeing is the market has already priced in the biden stimulus package, and now we're trying to see how it plays out. we've already seen a little reflationary pressure coming in kind of trying to get the economy back to historical levels where inflation was i think what we're seeing is just a lot of managers taking the historical perspective of transitioning over to those sectors and companies has are going to benefit from the rise in yields and the other things that are going to come along with this. >> at the same time, though, looking at gdp growth, the way in which some people are forecasting, i have to imagine that's going to lead some elements of technology just to earn their way out of that valuation hole. >> no doubt. i mean, look, there's going to be a higher bar for these tech

stocks now that there are alternatives to being able to make the types of returns that investors are looking for. that said, i am a long-term bull on technology, and, in fact, i would say there's so many things that have changed since the last time that we've seen this divergence between tech stocks performance and the historical stocks that one would look to in this type of economic environment. >> lo, good morning. it's deirdre as a long term tech bull what do you make of the divergens seeing within the sector. oracle, cisco and ipm outperforming last year's tech darlings ibm. does it last a secular shift or just a trade for this year, perhaps, looking ahead to a reopening >> it might be i think -- look, one of the things that happened is a lot of those historical names, changed

business models, but that lagged a little from more daryling new names. long term, again, i am a bull. there's a lot of things that the market needs to sort out, and there's new elements that haven't been in place the past couple decades. >> okay. so take cisco and ibm's push into cloud you know, wanting to become big players in this space, but competing against the microsofts and amazons and googles of the world. is this a long-term trend? can they actually compete? a conversation last week saying there wasn't a lot of are transparency when it came to those companies and their cloud ambitions? >> absolutely. zero incentive for them to be able to open the kimono, so to say, and actually show the progress today let's be clear there is no alternative for

them, except to try and compete in these markets they've got a long road to go, but the good news is, they have the balance sheets that at least give them the ability to make those investments and try to compete. >> lo, there's headlines this morning a few more states, for example, are joining in on the texas lawsuit against google we've spent the last couple of years talking about antitrust risk and regulation risk in general, do you see it that as a true long-term negative or is it, in a way, not to be crass about it, but the cost of doing some business? >> yeah. i would really lean more towards the latter i think that, again, and i've always said this you know, we're in an environment where the regulators tried to fostered ability for innovation to happen, which is a good thing like taking a more laissez-faire approach however, now that we're seeing how intertwined these tech

companies have become in our personal lives and also the corporate side, we obviously see the need for some additional regulation and the markets are struggling to try and understand you know, what does that mean long term? but, you know, again, like let's just be clear. these things will figure themselves out technology is too important. these companies have the most powerful business models that we've ever seen. it will play out it will just take a little time and waters might be chopping until we get there >> right i want to get your take, lo, this morning on nvrfts. talk about it later in the hour as well. an interesting piece from "time" essentially investment manias. trading cards, digital art, crypto, sneakers, sports clips how are you processing this? it's come in such a hurry. what do you make of it and where do you think it goes at least in the near-term? >> okay. look i worked at both ebay and nike

ebay ran the collectible business and saw this before i saw it in the form of beanie babies at nike, worked on the online marketplace, and you know, we saw it with all of the tier zero, most desirable things that people bought from nike. this is a convergence and we're looking at the ability for people to now have this combination of the rise that we're seeing in bitcoin and some of the other cryptocurrencies kind of coupled d desire to ow some of these rare things. there is a difference now. which is, these digital assets can be tracked they can't really, you know, be lost, toso to say, although they can be stolen, as we've seen and look, something as valuable as someone is willing to pay a price for it look at beeple, the digital artist, sold about what? $70 million in one piece and

kind of like bansky meets bitcoin. >> it's true i mean, believe me, even beep is trying to get his head around it the follow-on, though, it's all made possible by excess liquidity, stimulus checks people at home people being bored people on social media does that make it any less legit, those very strange factors that have fed the boom >> i don't think it makes it any less legit i think what we should be looking for is, is it more of a bubble is it too overheated by the fact there is so much boredom, as was pointed out. the fact there is some excess, you know, monetary gains coming in to people in the form of stimulus are people going to spend their stimulus on digital sneakers or on food and rent i think, look, this is an important time for our economy we need to make sure that we're able to have the lessening of

this significant shift that we've seen where the rich got richer last year, in 2020, and it's been hard times for others, but, yeah. look, those are dynamics at play we're seeing it play out, and this is just a microcosm of kind of everything that we're seeing. >> right and, lo, sort of a sentiment we heard last week when we spoke to a number of people in the nft space. you have to be collective, no which artist to look for perhaps beeple over taco bell's tokens, but do you think that nfts are becoming an alternative investment class for a new generation of traders trading stocks on robinhood? why not nfts to see value appreciate in certain things like trading cards were once seen as part of a diversified portfolio, a long time ago. absolutely that is, i think, one of the key points which is your comment on the generational shift what we're looking at, you know,

we have the ability to understand a lot of things in the physical world in the older generations these younger generations have a deeper understanding of things in the digital world when i think about things like sneakers, for example. you look at the after-market for sneakers and it's hard to be able to actually get your hands on them, if you're a collector well, the digital realm has provided us with a way for collectors both on the buy and the sell side to actually be able to participate at scale in ways that they would not be able to do so if it were not for digital. so is this an opportunity to be able to have these new digital aspects, new nft to be a part of a portfolio? younger generations are saying resoundingly "yes. >> hard to refute that, at least at the moment. watch it closely, lo great seeing you

thanks again. >> thank you. we'll talk more about this see the sneakers on your screen? love them or hate them for $3 million worth of them in just seven minutes. more on that nft craze with founders coming up stay with us. 're 5 and this rate is fixed, you'll pay exactly $70 total. this month and every month. plus, switch today and get a free smartphone for each line. the best value and award-winning customer service. only at t-mobile. ♪♪ ♪ now here we go ♪ ♪ i can't help it if i'm poppin' see them watch like ♪ ♪ who that girl ♪ ♪ it's outrageous how this flavour got em shook like ♪

♪ hold up ♪ ♪ work work work it out ♪ ♪ ah ha ♪ ♪ i hit it back with a brand new style ♪ ♪ like woah ♪ ♪ bring it up into the fold get wild ♪ ♪ we turning up all the way on the dial ♪ ♪ like woah ♪ ♪ baby i'm fabulous so come on ♪ limitless possibilities. the boldly new 2021 nissan kicks. ♪♪

see every delivery... the boldly new 2021 nissan kicks. every yikes... and even every awwwwwwww... wait, where was i? introducing self protection from xfinity. designed to put you in control. with real-time notification and a week of uninterrupted recording... all powered by reliable, secure wifi from xfinity. gotta respect his determinatio. it's easy and affordable to get started. get self protection for $10 a month. our next guests creators of nft sneakers selling over 600

pairs over $3 million in just seven minutes, by the way. with us founder of artifacts. good morning, gentlemen. nice to see you guys and not your artifacts first of all, i get the appeal. >> thank you. >> we did see them earlier. i get the appeal i actually really like the look of these sneakers, but there are many out there who i've been talking to that just cannot understand the idea of paying thousands of dollars for sneakers that you won't actually get to wear. so start with you, in your words, why are people shelling out money, and so much money, for these things >> and so much money because while we created something unique when we worked on these shoes and trying to pioneer how people are thinking of buying sneakers and items in the future as collectibles first and then, of course, wearing them.

one precision. these sneakers also will get physical ones. delivered on time by april, but value of it is nft of the sneaker is actually actually like a blueprint at nft you can't access the physical shoes and a key to experiences and one is having progression of that. i think so much success, in the middle of a -- revolution is amazing in a space like that, never before and how we work with these shoes, how we did content and design, amazing artist i think all planets aligned to make something that can affect the benchmark how you do these things and everyone that bought, in the industries behind it and first time done. it's very exciting and people manifested their excitement with the money they put in to buy it. what's crazy, now resetting in the secondary market already the crazy is not over.

>> how much have they appreciated on the secondary market, stephen? >> going up about 50%. we were selling them initially, three models ats 3ds,000, $5,000, $10,000 and seen them go up to $15,000. definitely a market and demand what's great is every pair is trackable on the blockchain and easy to see this which is awesome. >> okay. chris, that's amazing, then. in such a short time appreciated these digital sneakers by about 50%. those people won't get the physical ones, i assume. the point don't wear them in real life but in the meta verse. blocks that "fortnight" and others are creating. how do you make sure there's no fakes in the metaverse think about luxury products in the real world, there's a huge

problem with counter fits.counto you see problem here >> advantage -- go ahead, chris. go ahead, everything's on the blockchain for example, you know, how do you awe tent kateuthenticate a jordan jersey signature? you ask for paperwork. is there a picture of michael jordan signing it? but with blockchain, say if michael jordan made a wallet or started selli ing nft on open ss wearables, it would be traced back to michael jordan on top of that every new collector or buyer that buys it, it traces that purchase with a timestamp. what day they purchased it how much they purchased it for i feel like there can't be copies if there are copies you can easily tell where the original source came from >> that's interesting.

benoit, i wonder obviously, you guys are having to explain the basics of this and probably will have to explain the basics for a while as people get up to speed. is that frustrating? or do you think that's part of being on the cusp of something that is truly new? >> i mean, i think it's part of our role, because we are acting as, like, pioneers and again, it's not us. it's a movement happeni ing rig now, and when decide to organize themselves and want to make a big change in the world they can. right now it's what's happening. nft, all movement, part of the population and creators and collectors are making the change and making things happen every day. actually been in that before i was in esports before and had to explain to people why a new form of sports and entertainment. takes ts time when you are a part of something new you have a role to educate, spread the message and explain to people how to connect and be

a part of the movement i'm ate the age of explaining. normal it's natural, because we come from video games, come from collector goodies and right now for us it's natural. it's all the things we love and know that we can manifest and create with and make revenue with, but i think the revenue comes because being very generous, educating people and getting them up to speed it's something we need to do same time, we know some people will never understand. just like not understanding why this is so strong and such a control movement these people we want to spend most time explaining. >> steven, last question to you. with such demand for the sneakers and even that appreciation you guys spoke about in the secondary markets already. how do buyers of the original, the first set of sneakers know you won't turn around and issue, 50, 100, 1,000 more of these digital sneakers devaluing them?

that's what trading cards did in the '90s, issuing in the washgs c wax card era >> for us as brand we keep our integrity. for example, the atari sneakers you see on the screen right now. when we sold them we actually burnt the rest of them to increase value for original people who bought the items. focused on two parts collaborators and artist empowering the community and bringing in new artist to skin our shoes give a revenue cut in a fair way because it's a new generation starting. on the collector side, we value the collectors who are spending this money so we don't want to overproduce and we actually would do the opposite and destroy nfts to increase the value. >> everyone starts with that intention, steven. how do you make sure you stick to that philosophy >> we just make sure that we --

>> i mean we -- >> that's -- part of -- >> okay. >> yes. >> okay. okay we -- we hear you. gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us this morning. be benoit, steven and chris from artifacts. >> thank you for having us and thanks for everyone supporting this, nft and thanks for you. >> great discussion, guys. thank you. you saw that apple chart up. take a look at it. evercore, new street high. 175. bull case, 225 we'll talk in a moment about thisheweomba. wn ce ck (vo) ideas exist inside you, electrify you. they grow from our imagination, but they can't be held back. they want to be set free. to make the world more responsible, and even more incredible.

ideas start the future, just like that. we see harnessing natural gas unleashing the promise of cleaner energy. at emerson, we advance the safety and efficiency of the lng industry to meet the world's need for reliable, affordable electricity. emerson. consider it solved. hi, i'm a new customer and i want your best new smartphone deal. affordable electricity. well i'm an existing customer and i'd like your best new smartphone deal. oh do ya? actually it's for both new and existing customers. i feel silly. but i do want the fastest 5g network. oh i want the fastest 5g network. are we actually doing this again? it's not complicated. only at&t gives everyone the same great deal. like the samsung galaxy s21 5g for free when you trade in. in the romo household we take things to the max oh yeah! honey, you still in bed? yep!

bye! that's why we love skechers max cushioning footwear. they've maxed out the cushion for extreme comfort. it's like walking on clouds! big, comfy ones! oh yeah! ♪♪ in boxing or any other business, one day, you're gonna take a hit you didn't see coming. do you stay down? or do you get up? [announcer] and this fight is a long way from over, leonard is coming back. ♪♪

♪♪ welcome back here is your cnbc update at this

hour homeland security secretary mayorkas is defending the biden administration handling of the surge's migrants on the u.s./mexico border saying minors are held in temporary shelters until they can be placed with relatives or sponsors in the u.s. senate majority leader mcconnell is warning democrats will create a "completely scorched earth" doing away with the senate's filibuster rule such a move would make it harder for president biden to advance his agenda. and planned credit card fees suspended until next year citing the pandemic impact on businesses. and tender wants to help you swab while you swipe offering free covid testing kits to 1,000 members one for themselves and one for their match.

that's our update. "squawk alley" returns in just a moment. i had saved up some money and then found the home of my dreams. but my home of my dreams needed some work sofi was the first lender that even offered a personal loan. i didn't even know that was an option. the personal loan let us renovate our single family house into a multi-unit home. and i get to live in this beautiful house with this beautiful kitchen and it's all thanks to sofi. don't like surprises? [ watch vibrates ] proactive notifications from fidelity keep you tuned in all day long. so when something happens that could affect your portfolio, you can act quickly. that's decision tech, only from fidelity.

our next guest has ap many at new street high price target 175 says the stock is less of a product story more about services expects revenue to cross $100 billion by 2025 with us evercore's representative great to have you. >> thanks for having me. >> i'd love to get you to talk a bit about the product service

narrative, but also this idea that the valuation over time reverts to something we see in consumer staples rather than in tech. >> yeah. actually two parts of this narrative. one is, this is inherently going to keep becoming less of the iphone units apple is selling but how to monetize this 1.6 million phones out in the world now. right? services side, listen, average users spending about $62 a year on iphone services compare that to what you spend on netflix and apple and prime, this number could easily keep growing. long as it keeps going through install base growth and new services offered, we think services alone can grow mid-teens next four, five years. and quickly the narrative is airpods, despite the fact we see them often, it has a less than 10% attach rate to iphone users.

same with apple watch. that number can get to 20% usually businesses grow forward. a kind of less about iphones more monetizations. >> interesting where does that leave people who have been trained over the years to react to every incremental headline about supply chain, about production growth, about margin's improvement in the camera, product offering, and what about the concern that we used to haveat least, about margins? that is that they're not as robust and not as transparent about services margins than ththey have been on product? >> yeah. as an analysis i would love for apple to be more transparent on a whole host of things modeling this and i still run a model unit it becomes a lot less -- i feel like the model we should all

want, iphone installing versus iphone units that metric hasn't changed in terms what is important. the other part, by the way to the point you mentioned services inherently, variables, higher than corporate margins which means not only the growth installing monetization but it could drive margins and dps faster when people see historically out of that. >> good morning. it's deidre. talking a lot about services but there's a lot of really some uncertainty there. especially movement on the regulation front in terms of payments and the app store just recently arizona house passed a bill that would allow developers to avoid that so-called apple tax. how do you build that into your case, and do you think this is a risk or something that will kind of peter on like we've seen regulations over the last few years? >> you know, it's a great

question i have this into our narrative regulation undermine everything you said in addition to think about all of the issues they had with the google licensing deal as well. right? i think what can happen from a regulatory basis, actually could be a risk, 0 a risk from this narrative moving forward you know, on the apple tax, services tax, right? we've got to say, take 30% down to 10% that would imply the full eps get it back -- that's what we've been working with. our our assumption would be apple probably has least amount of regulatory risk and big tech moving forward as you said. these things might peter along for a longer time than be -- that's our hope right now, at least. >> right you're saying even if that commission went down to 10% you still think services could be the growth driver? what you're saying

>> absolutely. i think the part that infers that people under estimate on apple services is, ability to launch new things like apple tv or apple arcade or apple fitness, and make it a several hadn't manage business growing quickly something you're see from apple going forward. >> finally, everybody's got to have an opinion about an apple car. it's early so early that there's a big divergence in opinion between on one hand largest available global tam the other, so far out that it's impossible to model at this point. where are you on the car >> you know, one of the things we do in this report we had. we say, you know what? getting a free call option on a wholesale moonshot project, lack of a better word apple car one of them. and outlier in the report i think we will have an apple car,

a physical product apple will come out along with their own apple likes to a degree. and i feel people will get it. 2024 seems very aggressive i would say 2025, 2026, the right time i think you get it within this decade. >> hmm >> it's a, it's a robust, thorough note at 126 pages we won't get to all of the nuances, but congratulations on it, and thanks for coming on i look forward to talking again soon. >> absolutely. thank you very much for having me. coming up on the show, the tech you'd need to link home and office breaking down essentials for retemo and hybrid work that's coming up next. stay with us. f. before we board. excellent. and you have thinkorswim mobile- -so i can finish analyzing the risk on this position. you two are all set. have a great flight. thanks. we'll see ya.

ah, they're getting so smart. choose the app that fits your investing style. ♪♪ if you're 55 and up, t-mobile has plans built just for you. get 2 unlimited lines for only $70. and now get netflix on us with your plan. and this rate is fixed, you'll pay exactly $70 total. this month and every month. plus, switch today and get a free smartphone for each line. the best value and award-winning customer service. only at t-mobile.

if you're worried about your return to the office or reflecting on stresses of a hybrid work model our next guest has advice "wall street journal" the joanna stern a great piece looking at the tech you need to lighten your home and office great to see you welcome. >> hey, you guys. >> you know, seems like every day getting a new corporate -- a new corporate memo from some employer that's sort of outlining their plan for bringing people back one thing that's clear is that we are going to need to either upgrade or at least maintain the tech we are using from home, as i am right now, for example. >> yes the home office from all of the experts, they tell me it's going

to stay. the setups we've perfected over the last year, that's probably going to be a very core place of your future of work, in the sense that you will have your home office, and then some days you will go to your office-office, and in that sense there's a lot of debate around how much time you're spend in each place, but to two three days is what i heard from a lot of tech executives all betting that we'll spend two to three days at home and the other in the office >> right so for the, for your -- from your point of view in terms of tech is there real innovation and the real acceptance rate going to depend on software or hardware >> it's a combo of both. i think the tech industry is very excited about this, because it means even more dependence on these tools. in the sense that in the last year we were certainly dependent on these, but when you split the workforce, we were all at home and all sort of knew where we were were overcommunicating but not

communicating in the sense we didn't know where people were. we knew they were home now we have tools that we need to adapt to the fact that someone's in the office. someone's at home. someone's on a boat someplace who can work anywhere. from the slacks of the world, google workspaces working to make it easier. heard a lot of edendens on audio from slack and clubhouse features and the idea just drop into a conference room on the hardware side, again, even more dependence we go back to offices we'll talk to people everywhere going to have webcams everywhere in the office. ceo of logitech excited. a conversation how he envisions the entire office having cameras. >> a little scary of a thought, joanna i know you love your dongle bag. how long have you had it >> i do. hoping to talk about my dongle

bag. in fact, i have it. >> how long have you had it, joanna how many days or week? >> i knew i would have to show my dongle back publicly so i did just buy this, for reporting purposes. but this is going to be even more important right? you'll be dragging dongling, adapters, airpods, headphones, laptops back and forth. >> joanna, the reason i ask is because there is no way that i'm going to show my dongle bag on tv, because it is an absolute mess i mean, i've tried this a number of times, and there are just wires and stuff everywhere it's like completely useless after a few days i just wonder. do you think it's possible that companies will purchase double, stuff that you can keep at home or on the go and stuff that stays in the office? sure, may be more expensive, but you could avoid lost stuff, damaged devices. is it possible the ceo of logitech and other companies could see even greater than anticipated sales as we all go

back to work or a hybrid workforce? >> first of all, talk about your dongle bag you need to clean that up. we can talk afterwards about one i recommend. but 100% on that. right? logitech ceo told me also the hardwaremakers that do make the software, too. googling of the world, microsoft they also make speakers for conference rooms. and many looking at soar of the hot desking, right everyone shares desks. all going to be upgrading that infrastructure plus going to want to make you feel comfortable at home we see many of these companies especially the big tech companies give spip stipends toi

workforce. up to $2,000 for people to outfit homes not just buying nicer desks but laptops, new webcams i expect to see a big surge in all of that. >> curious to know where you think this leaves zoom, obviously has gotten the zeitgeist, lion's share of the zeitgeist post-covid looked at teams, google workspace and compare to a clubhouse for quick meetings the street is very much in a mode they believe large enterprise will consolidate vendors. who's in the pole position in that case? >> zoom i think stands to be left behind in the sense that they only really focus on the video and calling. right? you have microsoft and you've got slack and you've got google especially with combined suites's products. not only can you get the chat and video.

you also get the suite of collaboration tools, google docs, microsoft words, presentations. all of that kind of stuff, in these combined packages. certainly there's something to be said for a company just investing in one of those says we're doing going the all the way, google docs, slide sheets, et cetera. >> fascinating and then finally, i wonder do you think they'll be a point as we get headline after headline regarding cybersecurity risk and hackings that employers will eventually say, look, love to have you work remote, but this is an important meeting and we'd rather not have the it online why don't you come in? >> i think so. i spoke to a couple of cios for this piece and definitely heard quite a bit about amping up security making sure the i.t. departments are really focused on that. what does that look like i think that that sort of idea, hey, this is an important

meeting. whether because they want facetime or it's more secure, come into the office is something we'll hear more of that's the hybrid model. only go to the office to collaborate. doing solo work, on cnbc, you stay home. >> yeah. certainly at least on some of the banks and some of the trading businesses they're putting the emphasis on being back we'll see how the summer goes, and talk about that closer to labor day. a great piece. great seeing you as well. >> yes i hope to come to talk to you in a studio and that part of my go-to events. >> okay. we hope so, too. keep your eye on roblox. a compelling play on converge. price target $85 you can see at $76 up more than 5% we're back in just a moment.

mom and dad left costa rica, 1971. and in 1990, they opened irazu. when the pandemic hit, pickup and delivery was still viable. and that kept us afloat. keeping our diners informed on google was so important. the support from our customers, it honestly kept us going. i will always be grateful for that.

so you're a small business, or a big one. you were thriving, but then... oh. ah. okay. plan, pivot. how do you bounce back? you don't, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. powered by the largest gig speed network in america. but is it secure? sure it's secure. and even if the power goes down, your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. bounce forward, with comcast business. gumroad's latest round

good morning, gentlemen. thanks for being with us s how does this move or doesn't it change the move in the start of ecosystem, democratizing, sort of like robinhood has done could it lead to more start-ups not vetted by vcs or investment professionals that do this for a living >> essential possible, yeah. funding around limit's up from one to five, first run was in 2015, i believe. there have been basically zero cases of fraud or scams in that market these deals are still vetted by crowd funding portals. on the other side, public markets have seen plenty of fraud. i think sort of the average person of the little guy, quote/unquote, is pretty sophisticated and can do their own research and make good investment decisions this is heavily regulated.

had to file a form c you can look it up go to the website and read all our financials see the history of the companies and that's a requirement for all companies raising these kinds of rounds. >> spacs on the other hand -- >> i think that's fair. yeah okay that's fair. jason, come to you i mean, we've just seen over the last year and a half, year or so, the explosion of spacs on the scene. do you think that we'll see kind of a similar effect here, pro limp riveration and crowdfundi ing investment >> i do. i think spacs are a bit disingenuous and like this more direct form of investing you actually know what you're buying into and small investors finally get involved really nice. forever a very, very high wall, and anytime there's a high wall there's something high the other side really good others can't get to nice to lower that wall and excited to see where this goes

i think direct investment in small, private businesses is a good thing long as people do their homework, which they should do with any investment but it's direct and clear, and i appreciate it. >> jason -- why are spacs disingenuous residential you just putting money with someone you trust to make the right investment? how is it different than putting money directly with a founder? you may not know as much about them as someone who will take a big investment >> the spac, yeah, betting on somebody which is fine you don't know what they'll do down the road. people's point of view changes i think a bit disingenuous a bit of a mystery. >> you see the financials, when it comes time to keep that investment in that special purpose acquisition vehicle or get out. how is it different? >> you see them later. yeah that's true, but put money in with the person first and they decide if they want to buy or

bring other private companies public i find -- giving my opinion. i find them to be a bit strange and disingenuous for that reason but appreciate the direct investment is something you know exactly what you're buying when you're buying it, what you're getting into exactly a more direct, in my opinion, honest way to put your money to work people are free to do whatever they want and maybe i'll be proven wrong over time maybe not. doesn't even matter, i guess just my opinion. >> back to you the founder, idea raising money for an experienced venture capitalist, who they can introduce you to potential deals and partnerships help you find talent when you are pooling from such a large group of different individual investors, and they may be customers with a lot of value add, but how do you capitalize on that? take advantage of that when there are so many? >> yeah. yeah i mean, you know, look i've raised money from venture

capitalists and from excel and perkins and others in the past i have that experience co-invested with my own venture fund, too. i can get the help if i need it and frankly a lot of them are investors now. several invested directly via this crowdfunding opening to everybody including v cs i think getting help from more people is not hard i tweet out, hey, i need help and get 50 dms and go through them it's not a really big deal and frankly a lot of founders raisedmond from vcs are disappointed how much value they'll get and if you're not uber, instagram, by the way, been in this position for several years. started the company in 2011. you don't necessarily get the help you think you might it's up to you, frankly. you're the founder it's your company. so, yeah i think it's okay to say, it's my thing my responsibility, to put my

investors to work and i think we have 7,600 investors now my guess is 7,600 investors are a lot more valuable when a lot of our customers in our community members than, like a few big wigs. >> hmm jason, i wonder if we're talking about a broader population of participants, does that mean you'll get a broader dispersion of opinions about what kinds of investments you should make? disclosures you should be making how far does democratization go? >> far as it wants to go and needs to go. having more people involve ared in something like this is a good idea gives people more say in how they want to invest their money versus just giving it to someone else to manage their money i'm okay with it in general, i hopefully --

there's -- you don't want to have board meetings with 100 or 1,000 people, you don't want to deal with that necessarily of course, that's not what this is yeah there's a risk, of course. having 7,000 investors invest in something. a lot of opinions. different points of view that's a new challenge, which is interesting. in public markets, hundreds of thousands investors in the stock. not that much different but a slightly different expectation given how close to the founder that's something that can be interesting to see how that plays out over time. >> i think i heard from you, sentiment that sometimes vcs and idea of value add are overrated. jason, do you agree with that? do you think that this new rule will change dynamics see more companies, more founders, go directly to customers or individuals to raise capital? >> i do think contact books and address books are highly

overratedtop give away significant amount of your company to get an email some somebody come on. that's ridiculous. you can get connections you if need to. a lot of connections aren't worth what they're sold to be. another example of this. we published awe few book with major publishers they promise you everything. end of the day, you got to promote the book yourself. they'll publish the book put it in book stores but you have to promote the book, you have to do the work the idea these big, powerful organizations or people are really going to make significant, going to -- i guess -- make significant in-roads to certain areas i don't buy it i don't see it happening at all. it can happen, but, again, what's the trade-off what are you paying for, giving up to get that one email introduction i just don't think it's worth it. >> potentially a lot of equity >> yes. >> thank you both. good luck. hope to talk to you soon. >> thank you. >> thanks for having us.

>> fascinating chat. thank you, guys. this afternoon, don't miss an exclusive on klob "closing b" 3:00 p.m. eastern time meantime, vix below 20 first time since mid-february. back in a moment >> i like the retail investors for lots of reasons. first of all, unlike many people they're investing their own money with no safety net many are engineers and actually go and evaluate or product and by the way dispel a lot of what i call slanderish critiques written by people that don't ever seem to have engaged with our product. i really like these people and very happy we dpo'd. you give investors to make money and not just big hedge funds on wall street. very proud normal people investing their own money with their own risk making their own opinion made a lot of money and

we are working for a long-term outcome.

that's a very good question. will there be an ev for me? what about me? an ev for me? what about me? can i get one too? an ev for this princess? what's an ev? and there better be one for me. and what about michelle from michigan? me? what about me? us? will there be an ev for me? me? me? me? ♪♪

closing out the show look at the nasdaq up 0.9 of 1%.

for the year up nearly 5.5% approaching gains of the s&p 500 this year. shaky start but seeing it catch up to the other indexes. after some underperformance this year, carl. >> yeah. i think the real chart, too, might be the vix today people talk about it getting below 20 an important marker but it's there now first time since mid-february. the judge is back. get to "the half". >> scott walker front and center big effort risk to your money and first time in the year not the covid crisis one big firm just said about the markets that has a lot of people talking today. we discuss and debate with our investment committee joining me, josh brown, jenny harrington, and jon najarian and president of farr miller to the wall. currently trading dow up seven straight days. down 100 now