licking thing wounds stocks coming off the first back-to-back down days in nearly a month as earnings failed to get anyone excited doubling down, standing on its call for bond yields to fall you'll hear from the man himself coming up. a verdict in minneapolis as former police officer derek chauvin is found guilty on all counts in the murder of george floyd. i have reaction on the ground in a moment back on ball street, netflix

shares tanking amid a slowdown of customers and buying on the news and it's cooperman versus warren what the billionaire investor is saying to elizabeth warren as he turns down an invitation to testify next week. it is wednesday, april 21st. and this is "worldwide exchange." ♪ well, good afternoon good morning, good evening, wherever in the world you're watching i'm brian sullivan on a very busy wednesday let's take a look at stock futures mixed. it's too high. of course, it's been a weak couple of days for stock down 256 yesterday the nasdaq down 1.5% and the s&p down another 28 points we are seeing futures mixed.

dow up a tad nasdaq, down but again, keep in mind, it has been still a pretty good april even with the last couple of days nasdaq 100 up 5.5% this month. s&p 500 still up 4%. of course, got to see if this is just a few days' trend the last couple days of weakness, or maybe the start of something a little more serious for the equity markets in the bond market, let's take a look at yields because yields have been a big part of the story the last ten months ten-year note, 1.6 from 1.85%. remember, a few months ago, scott mmineerd shocked everybod and he's here to double down on that call. the stocks of the morning, netflix shares a huge miss in customer growth in the first

quarter. stock down 8% or $44 a share global paid net subscriber editions coming at just under 4 million. versus 6.2 million expected by analysts we'll get much more on that netflix move coming up a bit later on in the show let's take a look globally, right across the screen in asia. japan which had been rocking the beginning of the year, down another 2% overnight last night. another thing to watch there, hong kong down not nearly as much but new york, a different story, we're seeing gains across the board. not big ones, led by the uk and dax, uk up 0.3%. all of this can wait, the conviction of derek chauvin in the death of george floyd as the jury finds him guilty on all counts frank holland joining us live in

minneapolis with the very latest and the reaction which carried on into the night. frank, good morning. >> reporter: good morning to you, brian the death of george floyd in that historic trial of derek chauvin that took place in this courthouse you see right here behind me seen as a major inflexion point for law enforcement and for american history. hundreds of people gathered outside of this courthouse, really expressing a range of emotions about that conviction some were crying, some were hugging, some were shouting after derek chauvin was found guilty on all three counts many saw this as a victory for this nation and the black community. it was a dramatic reversal from the day before when the jury deliberated and many were anxious and concerned about the possibility of social unrest related to this trial. >> my emotion during the trial was aine anxiety. heightened up with anxiety concerned which way this would turn out and what the reaction of the city would be

but to look at it now it's like a day of jubilee it's also bittersweet. >> reporter: bittersweet that's what we heard from so many people. so many people still very saddened that george floyd had to lose his life to spark a conversation about racial injustice. about law enforcement, just about the racial divide in this nation last inside president joe biden also speaking about the verdict. >> the murder of george floyd launched a summer of protests we hadn't seen since the civil rights era in the '60s protests that unified people of every race and generation. and peace and with purpose to say enough. enough enough of this senseless killings >> reporter: so, brian, what this all means for this city, for this nation, for law enforcement especially related to communities of color, that

remains to be seen but it certainly feels like in this moment, a page in history has been turned. back over to you >> frank, what can you tell us about the sentencing now of former police officer derek chauvin? >> reporter: well, brian what we're hearing right now, the guidance we're getting at this moment that sentencing will happen sometime in mid-june, very close to juneteenth, a time when people are becoming more aware of social injustice. we'll have to continue to watch. brian, we're going to remain here on ground one of the places we're going to go to it george floyd square, where george floyd lost his life we're expecting memorials and other demonstrations there today. >> frank holland live on the ground in minneapolis. frank, thank you very much we'll see you all day here on cnbc >> reporter: thank you, brian. >> you're welcome. let's get back to the markets, the transition that, that is, the next guest making

market waves a few weeks ago by saying he thought bond yields would fall in coming months. it's possible they could even go negative heading into next year. but is he changing his mind on this big time call heck no. let's welcome in one of the biggest names if not the biggest name on bonds, guojun heim's scott minerd scott, thanks for visiting us on this busy day. are you standing by that call for a lower ten-year yield >> well, it wouldn't be the first time, brian, people thought i lost it. but, yeah, i'm definitely standing by it and, you know, one of the reasons is that the hysteria there is over rising interest rates is not very well-founded in fact. and, you know, the data shows me something completely different

that ultimately, we're going to see rates moving lower over the course of the coming months. and that people have become way too bearish on bonds >> well, to be fair, i mean, we have seen a big spike in rates not since you were last on which was march 22nd i mean, rates were flat, maybe a little bit down since then but that violent rise in the months and weeks before that got everybody sort of tripping over themselves to have a higher estimate you know, 175 on the ten-year. 2%, maybe 2.5% what are you seeing in the global bond markets, really, particularly, with regard to the u.s. that is, i guess, different than everybody else, scott >> well, i mean, brian, i think one of the big factors here is the fiscal stimulus has been largely misunderstood. people are interpreting the increase in government spending as inflationary.

and it's been well established that changes in fiscal spending may, in the short run, have a transitory impact on bond yields and overall price levels that those changes are just something which occur as a result of the shock of the change of government spending. but that ultimately, the fundamentals take over and the fundamentals are that we're still in a disinflation era, that we're seeing big jumps in productivity. and that's the overall long-term downtrend in rates which has been in place now for almost 40 years is still impntact. we haven't violated that downtrend. and until we do violate that downtrend, i'm not going to jump on the bandwagon of people who are caught up in this hysteria that inflation is taking off

and that we're a grateful market in the last 40 years has come to an end >> well, let's be clear, yields go down when there's aggressive buying more buyers send the price up. yields go down who is going to be the biert of u buyer of u.s. debt in this market >> we just got past japanese year end on march 31st and we've seen a huge reversal in the flows coming out of asia. in the weeks leading up to the end of quarter, we saw outflows, the japanese liquidated holdings there. that's completely reversed in the past two weeks and we're seeing major, major inflows. let's face it, brian, the united states is practically the only country in the world that has a significant yield above zero and for the japanese, where they're locked into zero bound, and their ten-year note is at zero and with hedging costs being

zero at this point, because of the low interest rate differential at the overnight rate, you can buy these r-bonds, treasury, corporate bonds and hedge them back into the yen into yields that are substantially available for them treasuries in japan would outfield japan government bonds by 125 to 150 basis points, depending on where you purchase on the curve so, there's a lot of money coming in there. the other thing, though, i think that people are not aware of is right here at home we are seeing massive flows coming in from our clients, insurance companies, pension funds. for longer dated assets. and our insurance clients that represent the largest portion of the assets we manage have had a

huge demand in their customers, that is policyholders, to invest in long-dated fixed rate annuities of ten years and longer insurance companies hedge those things so, immediately when that money flows in, it gets hedged and that's another source of cash for the long end the curve. >> if you are right, and yields go down, that means bond prices go up as we just said, does that necessarily mean, scott, that u.s. equity markets will go down or do you think that bonds can go up, ten years in particular, and u.s. growth stocks which benefit from low rates, can also go up? or is it more of a zero sum gain >> well, it's an interesting question, brian. because there are a lot of people who now believe that there is no diversification value left in bonds because yields are so low. but, you know, there are signs

that as interest rates fall that we will see stocks propped up. of course, going the other direction here, you know, we are coming into a seasonally weak time of the year for stocks. the old adage it may go away has been pruoven academically, it's empirically true over the years. we will see some moderation, if not some decline in equity prices i think over the coming months and that would reinforce a desire to do portfolio reallocation towards fixed income and so, the stock market, i think, is ultimately heading higher in the long run but, again, i think any short-term turbulence will be, you know, supportive for bonds, all the way around >> so, do you think -- okay, you

do think that the equity markets can move higher as well? and i would assume also, i know you love it, the bitcoin question, scott, because you made a lot of waves, i don't know what it was, a few months ago, 400,000 on bitcoin. still bullish there? >> look, in the long run, brian, i'm very bullish on bitcoin. we've had such a massive move. i first did the work in this when bitcoin was at 10,000 and that was about the time i made the statement given the massive move we've had in bitcoin over the short run, things are very frothy and i think we're going to have to have a major correction of bitcoin. and i've said it before, i think we can pull back to, you know, 20,000, 30,000 on bitcoin which would be a 50% decline but the interesting thing about bitcoin is we've seen these kinds of declines before

and you know, i think it's just the normal evolution, in what a longer term bull market where we'll end up with numbers like 4 to $600,000 eventually on bitcoin. >> wow maybe a big time near term correction in the btc. very quickly, and totally outside of any of this, i guess, scott is you're a longtime californian. the recent headlines that you are moving to miami. that you'll become a florida resident, you and so many others from new york and california why make the move? can't be the weather you live in los angeles. >> right well, you know, i mean the first thing i'd start off with, brian, is california is an incredibly beautiful place. but i remind people, taxes are a powerful thing and the attempt by the assembly to raise the tax rate to 17% without the fault deduction really shows you that, you know,

that would be a massive hit to anybody's income to have, you know, 17% of your income going to the state and 37% to federal income tax and 6% going to social security and 2% going to medicare, it's easy to get yourself to a 60% marginal tax rate or higher so tax policy is not becoming more friendly. and, you know, i think miami is a great place in terms of being a cultural center. an international hub for finance. and, so, you know, i think it's time to go where the economic incentives are sending you and when you look at relative pricing against california, real estate here is cheap >> does that mean that some of the guggenheim people that you've got a great team out there in santa monica, some of

them will be following you to florida? will there be basically a guggenheim miami branch? >> i think what we'll find out over time, brian, we've discovered worker flexibility is increasing and mobility and where you can work from. and there will probably be opportunities for employees that are in higher tax jurisdiction to, you know, work in florida. or other tax domiciles where the tax rates are lower. >> yeah. >> you know, it's just economic incentives i just had dinner last night with art laffer who we all know is the king of economics, and taxes are a powerful thing >> they are. and maybe a powerful message as california looks to alter those rates. scott minerd, we appreciate your views here rates going down equities in the long term. bitcoin could have a long term

correction scott, easier to get you at this hour when you're on the eastern time zone. scott, thank you >> you, too, brian, take care. >> you, too, take care all right, there is so much more to do as we roll on coming up, may have growth meltdown exactly what happened at netflix. new customer growth tanking. we'll ask one shareholder boosting that position with the stabbing down 40 bucks apple updating its imac for the first time in a decade and later on, leon cooperman and smenator elizabeth warren, why he's turning down an invitation to testify in front of congress. we're back after this. that's why manufacturers are going hybrid with ibm. with watson on a hybrid cloud factories can use ai to automate the little things so they can focus on the next big thing.

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welcome back let's get right now to some of this morning's other top stories. bertha is here now with those. good to see you. and good morning, bertha >> good morning, brian in her first televised interview since taking the top job at citigroup, jane frazier said one of her priorities is to bring the banks to closer to their peers of chase and bank of america speaking with our own wilfred frost. >> we look at the businesses in the decade ahead, we want to be a winner, return the gap with our peers. to do that, you take an assessment of which the

businesses you're going to be in a position to succeed and win in and which perhaps you're at better hands with another bank >> prescription eye wear seller warby parker is considering a new offering as soon as this year according to bloomberg the new york-based city is in conversations with deliberations at an early stage. they could decide not to move forward. warby raised $120 million in the most recent funding last year giving it a valuation of $3 billion. and amazon is expanding its palm-scanning payment system to a whole foods store in seattle the first of many planned rollouts amazon one debuted in september and currently in use at a dozen physical stores. allows shoppers to pay for items by placing their palm over a scanning device.

amazon one is distinct from allowing shoppers to pick up items and walk out of the store without going through a check outaisle in the palm of your hand brian. >>bertha, i want you to call it i want the hot take. is that cool or creepy >> i'm not sure yet. >> yeah, because you wonder, they're obviously going off your love line and your palm prints, i would assume how are they getting that? you know, we're in the age of biometrics amazon is the airport. bertha, i'll see new a minute. thank you. all right. folks, what do you think palm technology, let us know on twitter. creepy or cool anyway, coming up a big blow to wisconsin, foxconn seriously scaling back with plans supposed to be for a $10 billion plan not anymore. i'll give you full details when "worldwide ehae"etnsxcng rur ♪

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officer. relatives identified her as 16-year-old ma'khia bryant bryant was pronounced dead at the hospital the mayor said they're say are conducting an independent probe and those findings will be made public now, to a harrowing rescue by a railway worker when a child fell under the tracks as a train explodes the worker sprang into action, that heroic worker was able to jump off the tracks. lucic legend prince died at the age of 57. >> to honor the purple one, kinsly park will be hope to the studios opening the doors to 15,000 fans free of charge will be able to pay tribute and review the late musicians ashes

displayed in the atrium, that's a look at the headlines. brian, back to you >> phillip mena, dramatic video from india thank you very much. wow, that was a close call coming up after the break, what china's premier has to say about climate change at the summit see you in two minutes

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net netflix co-crowe rita hastingsdown playing a miss. 40 bucks we'll dig in imacs, air tags oh, my in the first product unveil of the year but is that enough to turn investor heads and their money and standing by is big call -- >> ultimately, we're going to see rates moving lower over the course of the coming months. and that people have become way too bear ish on bonds >> what guggenheim's scott minerd just told us about the rising world landscape in a "worldwide exchange" exclusively all on this april 21st, and this is "worldwide exchange" right here on cnbc ♪

welcome back, exactly 5:31 here on the east coast thank you very much for joining us on cnbc here's how your money and i invests look right now as we're just halfway through the 5:00 a.m. hour. we're seeing not a big trend in futures. we're seeing futures, we'll call them exactly flat. dow down a touch nasdaq down a touch. this as the dow, s&p and russell 2000 all coming off their worst day in nearly a month. with the s&p 500 seeing its first two-day losing streak. i think guess you can have a two-day losing streak. down, for the first time, since all the way back in late march see if this is a start of something more meaningful. or just a little pause in what, by the way, has been a very good april so far don't lose sight of the context. a quick sector check and one of the biggest etfs focused on banks

that's the kbe, coming off 3.5% loss yesterday that's its worst since february when it fell 5%. and cathie woods' arc innovation etf now down three sessions in a row. this as wood continues to add to her position in coinbase that stock is still down from its all-time high, hit all the way back to its debut day which was a couple days ago. still, something to watch. all right, now, back to some of this morning's top other stories. bertha coombs back now with those. bertha, what is on the menu this morning? >> brian, chinese president xi jinping will give a speech tomorrow via video conference at a global leaders climate summit organized by president biden this according to chinese state media, many are expecting the leaders of the world's two largest economies and the

world's largest flopolluters to have their first meeting on the sidelines. and leon cooperman is declining elizabeth warren invitation to testify in congress next week calling it, quote, self-serving and disingenuous in response to our own scott wapner, cooperman says, quote, as has been the case as we first locked horns on this matter after her presidential bid she is looking to grandstand out my expense and use this hearing as a platform to advance her own agenda i am not interested in being pillared by her while she uses me a foil to promote her far-left manifesto and foxconn is scaling back plans for its proposed $10 billion display plant in wisconsin. once called the eighth wonder of the world by former president trump, the company now plans to

invest as much as $672 million and create 1400 jobs by 2025, in order to qualify for $80 million in incentives promised by the state. brian. >> yeah, you know, if i knew you were going to do the story, i would have sent my own video i was there. it's the weirdest thing, bertha, basically it's a client clear dome which i think is some sort of data center/museum. a couple of big warehouses and then farms and some homes down the street there's a bunch of new roads that kind of lead to nowhere pretty interesting there at foxconn. bertha, thank you. >> thank you you're welcome all right. the big stock story of the day, netflix, ouch. shares down over 40 bucks right now. the big problem -- a big miss on new customer ads only 4 million new ads wall street wanted it over 6 million. the company also saying it

expects to add only 1 million subscribers in the next quarter. and that may sound like a lot, but that is the first time they have ever projected growth at less than 2 million. joining us now axios media reporter sara fischer and granted advisers timothy lesko sara, i'll start with you, are we at peak netflix everybody who wants it already has it or maybe there's a crackdown on password sharing here? what do you think is going on with netflix and don't tell me it's everybody going out to the movies. maybe it is. >> i think we're definitely peak netflix in the united states that's been one of their issues. it's saturation year in the states especially as new competitors launch here. now, if you take a look at what's happening globally, remember their domestic partners disney plus and hbo max, they're also starting to grow overseas

so that's squeezing them a little bit netflix's response is, look, we didn't add as many subscribers this quarter because we just added so many in the back half of 2020 during the peandemic. what i'm curious about, brian, whether or not this trend continues. if they can't get out of that 200 million subscriber range within a significant amount of time we're going to see some competitors catch up disney is over 100 million amazon prime has 200 million subscribers worldwide. it's going to be tough >> yeah, tim, you wonder does everybody here, to sara's point that has it wants it and the big story internationally, what is going on with netflix and are you a buyer on the weakness? >> well, they did report 24% growth let's not lose the factthat they're doing very well. they're actually making money as a streaming provider, for years,grew on borrowed money

underlying that the numbers are fundamentally good and what the subscriber growth means, it's still growth, and we're not sure what the source of that weakness was. i believe a little bit that you had a big pull forward last year and you're going to begin to see some softness in the legacy streaming businesses like netflix, as apple, as disney, as hbo, all begin to add subscribers. so it is beginning to be a saturated market, but it can still be a very profitable market >> yeah. we hear your point, tim, very, very well but this is netflix. it's hey, you've been so hot and so great for so long, we just kind of expect it. maybe do we neat to ratchet down those expectations for netflix and realize it's still a growth company, but it's never going to be company it was, simply from the law of large numbers >> right certainly, the law of large numbers is going to catch up with them to a degree. they have a large to the

addressable market globally. they also have not had a lot of productions. ed global pandemic didn't just slow down restaurants and hotels, it basically put a stop to a lot of production you don't have a lot of movies coming out in the theaters you don't have new shows like "a stranger thing" or like a new black describing growth. 17 billion spent on content. and the expect is some of that content will begin to drive an increase in subscribers again. >> sara, it's a weird world, all of these tv shows and movies, everything -- not just that, our lives, put on pause. i've got to imagine there's going to be at some point just this massive unveiling of all of these new shows. not just netflix everything all of these new movies that have just been in status for the last 12 months >> yeah, netflix is giving guidance on that in our video

calls. i think about "cobra kai," they think the bloat that you're talking about production comes back at the end of the year and they're hopeful that's going to bring in new scribers and that income comes back. but i do want to say it's not like netflix had nothing in the past year, they had "bridgerton. but, yes, to your point, it's going to get better for them towards the end of the year when production comes out and when they're able to put more stuff in front of consumers. >> i can't name one -- i'm sure you can, sara. you're a lot more dialed in. i couldn't name one movie that's up for any award at all. let's move on. we'll talk more about -- by the way, another tv studio you might have heard about them, they're called apple and aside from producing tv shows, they unveiled a bunch of

new stuff yesterday. they updated the imac for the first time in a decade they rolled out a new ipad pro with 5g tech and mercifully, a bigger remote. thank you, apple and also a tracking gadget called the air tag which you can slap on anything you don't want to lose. shares of apple down 2% as the event wrapped up down again this morning, but still, doing pretty well overall in the last couple of weeks. tim, are you an owner of apple are you a longtime holder of apple? what's your take on apple? >> certainly, we've been a long-term holder of apple and continue to be a holder of apple and buy position as it comes in the door the stock has been relatively flat since september so you have a stock that's been consolidating for a while. we'll see if the stock pushes more growth. the story to their credit in

some ways, maybe to their detriment has still been the iphone, with the iphone 12 with tv and tags, and more devices, they're going after the surface. the ipad was the start of the show, think about the zoom world. it's the front facing camera that matters now, more than the pictures you're taking >> very well said, sara. i think tim nailed it. you got to have that monthly revenue, whether podcast, apple tv, icloud, apple music. pretty soon you look at your monthly credit card report and you're thinking i'm topp droppi bucks to apple it feels like these apple events, i understand there's a global pandemic, you might have heard about that it's like now we're going to unveil gravy for the potatoes. it's like maybe they should hold them until there's something big. >> yeah, i think they keep

momentum not just investors, but consumers which is helpful it also gives a snapshot of what they're working on but i agree the services business is going to become crucial as hardware sales continue to slow down. what i'm looking at, brian, they continue to take this 30% cut from people who make transactions through their app stores they're going to apply it to new products in the software business they said yesterday, the podcast creators are going to have 30% of their revenue tapeken by appe apple has so much scrutiny i hear about it all the time the about dominance about the app store and software as they continue to move through that space how did that square with the regulatory that they're facing it's only going to increase as they focus on surface. that's not something that apple has had to worry about up until

now. >> yeah, we'll see what happens. it's not moving the stock right now. the air tag may be cool but you wonder if they're going to move the needle now, we're going to unveil a keyboard with two "w"s sara fischer, tim lesko on netflix and apple. have a great day >> thanks. coming up, life is all about the benjamins in today's green yk back rbi but other top stories, discord, focusing on its business as a stan ad alone company. the super league soccer competition crumbling as all six english football clubs have now pulled out the new league faces backlash from fans, owners and

politicians. the remaining italian teams are left to decide how they might redesign this plan lead. and workplace software company settling for an ipo. positioning at 56 bucks a share. the company begins trading today. today. nyc under th of the largest spectator events pan our path is right back after this break hing thrown away by the hundreds of thousands of people at the tournament is repurposed. in 2020, wm diverted 988 tons of material and kept 421 metric tons of greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere. see how zero waste is one of the many ways wm is always working for a sustainable tomorrow at wm.com/stories.

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time now for your morning rbi. in this random and hopefully interesting stat has to do with something that kind of has to do with everything. the u.s. dollar. now, we talk a lot on the show about how much everything is up in price lately. stocks, bond, crypto, art, et cetera, et cetera. one thing that is down is the u.s. dollar. that's right, the greenback is in the red the dollar index down about 9% in the past 12 months and down about 2% this month. now, i think you know what you might be thinking. 2% doesn't sound like much, sullivan and it's not for anything but the currency market 2% it's actually a pretty big move and one that can impact a lot of the stuff if it continues. everything from oil prices and your purchasing power. a lot of folks hate a weaker

dollar but remember here, investors, it can also be very good for big american companies doing business overseas. think about a procter & gamble you sell in dollars, it's a win anywhere but in the states yes, currencies are boring until they're not. we're seeing a pretty big move, but not many are talking about, but watch the dollar and watch big multinational stock go with it random, hopefully, informative on deck, upper her forecast, morgan stanley's ellen zentner is neck with her take and more and a reminder, if you miss the show any day, we're not upset. we just hope you listen on the podcast, spotify or other platforms. we're back after this.

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in a disinflation era, we're

seeing big jumps in productivity and that the overall long-term downtrend in rates which has been in place now for almost 40 years is still intact. we haven't violated that downtrend. and until we do violate that downtrend, you know, i'm not going to jump on the bandwagon of people who are caught up in this hysteria that inflation is taking off >> that was scott minerd of gukeguk guggenheim partners earlier this morning on "worldwide exchange." let's talk about this and other issues of the american economy with ellen zentner of morgan stanley. her team recently raising the gdp in the first half, stunning 9.6% i'm not sure i've ever seen a number like that ellen, before that, i want you to comment, our friend and

colleague jim cramer tweeting out he thought scott's call was interesting. explaining how rates can't go down even with incipient inflation. you're probably not on scott's side, because most aren't. but what do you think about that is it possible to have inflation without a meaningful jump in interest rates? >> well, isn't that what the fed is trying to generate here >> yes, yes, it is >> so far, it's very early days, right? they've been successful so far, we're back to don't fight the fed. but it is early days in the previous segment you talked about dollar weakening. guess what's great for inflation outlook for a fed policymaker, dollar weakening because it puts pressure on import prices. even though we've been arguing since the middle of last year that we'd be in the middle of a higher inflationary environment. here's why the long-term downtrend in rates is really

just a low rate trend. not a further downtrend in rates. but when you're carrying debt levels that are this enormous, what it does is it makes every rate increase you do that much more powerful. so you don't need to raise rates as much to get a big impact on the economy. so that does end up lowering the neutral rate of where you can get to, in a cycle i think we are in a low interest rate environment i'm not that the tend is to trend downward >> i don't know if it's rocky 1 or rocky 2 ellen, but there's a scene where they're trying to make rocky quicker he's running around chasing a chicken. has the fed lost control or do they maintain -- are they fast enough >> so, we all like to think that

they're fast enough, right but there have been times historically when they've not been fast enough and allowed inflation to go too far. and like you said, it can't -- they're chasing the chicken. i feel like you just described my childhood and so you know, right now, we're still in early days. they're trying to and willing to accept higher inflation. they're saying, hey, if it starts to look out of control, we know exactly what we want to do but this is something they argued in a thesis in a hotter but shorter cycle. it's one reason why with inflationary pressure that they start to push the envelope of that ceiling, sort of implicit ceiling of 2.5% on core inflation, that the fed would have to act. it could be very disruptive for markets and the fed would act quicker in the cycle and

therefore, precipitated downturns. i would think of this as we're going to run a very hot cycle. and therefore it could be shorter. we shouldn't be thinking we're in another ten-year expansion. >> it feels like, ellen, without getting political too much, it's a huge disconnect. when i listen to politicians and other speaks, i know they're in d.c. if you're chuck schumer and you come back to new york and you say, oh, new york is still locked down. what you find is most of the economic sectors have done better i understand there are millions of people suffering in hospitality, small business, travel and leisure, much over that, the economy boomed everybody worked and had excess savings. stimulus needed in bigger programs for the hospitality sector that said, do you think the government has misinterpreted now strong the u.s. economy remained, even during the

pandemic did they overshoot, i guess, is the short way to ask the question >> so, i think what we have to remember is that we can't -- we don't have a factual of what the economy would look out without all of the government support. but i can tell you it's an economy we would not have wanted to live in and so, you can't say have we -- it's very difficult to say have we done enough have we done too much. we've performed very well because we didn't have a drop in income at a time when we had a hit to the economy >> yes >> so we're having this very rapid recovery now we can argue, have they done too much >> yeah. >> i can argue that we did too much in this last package. we did more to point the hull. but it's a difficult argument. >> yeah. well, it's moved now, anyway at least in as much as it comes with inflation, i guess, the only remaining question. leeln zentner, thank you for being here

thank you very much. folks, we'll see you tomorrow. "squawk" is next

♪ good morning this is the story du jour of the day. netflix -- netflix shares plummeting after subscriber numbers fell well short of estimates. guidance for the current quarter, even weaker people are leaving the house again. we'll go through the numbers apple rolling out a slate of new products and upgrade level, full recap and reaction from the investor straight ahead. and thanks, but no thanks, leon cooperman rejecting an offer by senator elizabeth warren to testify about taxes. he called her invitation self-serving and disingenuous, it's wednesday, ri