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tv   Fast Money  CNBC  May 21, 2021 5:00pm-5:30pm EDT

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retail etf, not a big surge this year but get earnings from gap next week, and best buy, and reaction overall to retail this week wasn't that great a lot of this was priced in and the outlooks are going to be the most important thing. >> a lot to focus on next week have a lovely weekend. that does it for "closing bell." "fast money" starts right now. i'm melissa lee, this is "fast money" tonight's trader lineup karen finerman, steve grasso, james mcdonald and nadine, big break down on crypto collapse today power traders are playing wild move plus cook gets grilled, after landmark anti-trust trial what it means for investors and chartmaster sounding at lamar on the u.s. --s alarm on the u.s. dollar starting with monster truck
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rally shares ford more than 70% making it the best stock of the s&p 500. and ford company unveiled electric version of the best selling vehicle f-150 pick up. did ford just leave the rest of the ev-pack in the dust? karen, what do you say i know you like gm >> i do. i like gm. but i'm happy to see another, you know, one of the old-school automakers, the kind that makes millions of cars and makes money, with that kind of thing, i'm into that. so good for them you know, it looks very exciting, the f-150. who would have thought people would get excited about an electric f-150 if you said that two or three years ago it would seem highly unlikely but to the extent had he help in the evolution to an all or mostly-ev world, i think it's going to help gm as well, certainly valuation-wise both of them when you compare them to tesla, it's, i know,
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people say tesla is not a car company, but it looks a lot like a car company, i mean, that the chasm of valuation is so wide, good for them, although i've chosen to play with gm i think they will move together and hopefully have very successful launches in the near future, a little later for new big products for gm next year. >> yeah we're showing forward valuations of major auto companies including tesla. ford trading a little bit more expensive than gm at this moment but outperforming gm year-to-date on a 12-month basis. steve grasso where would you place your bets if you want a traditional automaker in the ev space. >> couple things karen brought in important point that would be multiple expansion, melissa, as you touched on, ford is up 52% year-to-date against gm up 36% year-to-date i guess the latest thing because this is an
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actionable show is that ford is over bought right now. 70% relative index against general motors at 50 on an rsi but to karen's other point, five years ago, what was the talk an aluminum body frame what did everyone say, no one will buy a pick up truck with an aluminum body frame. i think people had the choice when tesla came on the market of buying a prius if you wanted ev, and you didn't get a chance to buy style. now you have tesla for style now you have the rest of the group buying for affordability, convenience, efficiency. so i don't know if this is a deal-breaker/maker, but i do believe you will get a multiple skpang expansion. but remember there's been a lot of pull forward for these automobile companies so i wouldn't look to the next month to six months to outperform >> yeah. when it comes to connecting the
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dots and extrapolating out, nadine, when we talk about pe expansion when it comes to a ford or gm, does it imply, necessarily, that tesla's valuation is too high? that a little bit of that should go into ford and gm? how should we think about how it plays out across the sector? >> i think you have to trade the stocks individually. and i agree wholeheartedly, basically this one's over bought we're looking at a daily trade range up 3.5% but down 14.5% so that is not down side to upside that we like. it's also got a applied volatility discount of 8%. we'd be really careful looking at the trend these are the kind of days you trend after a big week we like players like adv volkswagenment year-to-date it's beating ford we're looking to others that are not over bought like this one. talking about tesla, you got to
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trade that stock, it's a different ball of watch, as karen said here you have more free clash flow and other metrics to use but that one you trade on a completely different basis >> okay. so tesla is about 35% give or take perfect its -- from its 52-week high and unveiled its own pick up trump, very unusual design for their cyber truck. how do you feel? does an electrified f-150, the most popular pick up truck in america threaten that bull case for tesla? when it comes to pick up trucks? >> absolutely. when i was a child, one of my favorite memories was my grandfather's ford pick up truck, it was red, he called it soldier and my experience with soldier has lasted a lifetime. my grandchildren will drive around in a truck that is electrified that has a satellite in it with laser capabilities
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and customized to the experience ofilities driver this is going to happen in america and it's going to take off. tesla is more of a cult phen phenomena. the cars, the vehicles, the electronics, the founder are all popular. but ford is a staple we're in late cycle in equities and ford is a name with 13 pe. although it may be over bought temporarily based on the past trajectory, it's earnings and revenue was hurt from covid. i think they enter and compete and ford is a winner from flight to quality as well as the cult versus cultural importance of ford to american families. >> so your kid will drive around in an electrified soldier not a cyber truck. >> my grandchildren will be electrified soldiers i think ford will take flight here i like gm as well in the past. i think ford's got two platforms versus one with gm they got the commercial vehicles they got a mustang eev to run -
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>> karen, how do we think of the pull forward effect when it comes to what's priced into these auto stocks. >> yeah. we've been talking about peak auto for a long, long time we saw peak auto and it dipped down a little bit. we saw another sort of mini peak but i think we're in -- so -- multiples are a little bit higher but remember we were in zero interest rate for a while so it should be higher with gm they're running the business more efficiently although last year they did take on a lot of debt during the real depths of the shutdown but i'm comfortable owning it here, for gm in particular they don't get a lot of value in the market for cruise and ev doesn't get a lot of value, i don't think. one thing i think will be really
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important is actually seeing when these markets are in the marketplace will tesla lose market share it reminds me of netflix versus new streaming, well, netflix has survived and done fine but there's a lot of room for new streaming, disney, hbo max, there's a lot of room and they're not getting credit yet i happen to like gm, i think they'll move together. i want to stay long at least a year. >> sorry i mean, being obtuse, but in that analogy netflix is tesla and the competition coming is gm and ford and the like? >> yes because netflix was the first mover, right, for streaming. >> right >> and everyone had netflix. so tesla, you know, i guess it's the first mover in ev. was there room for others? yes there's room for others.
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disney traded up a lot on their streaming. right. so i think the valuation for gm and ford if they're successful with their ev products and game market share will be upside. >> there's room for others when they're strong players, when they have got a balance sheet that can compete steve grasso, yesterday we had a very interesting call that said browse of the strength or what looks like the strength of the ford f-150 or how strong it will be in the marketplace, the lordstown is going to go to a buck so in some respects for some players this is sort of a game-over, perhaps i'm wondering, as you look out across what had been a very hot ev-sector, particularly amongst spacs where you think game might be over for some >> oh, yeah, i mean, this is -- when you look at the speculative spac market, a lot of those names had no earnings and when you had a chance to -- in this environment, where we always
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talk about whether it's growth or whether it's value, i think the needle definitely falls in the value camp and if you're falling in the value camp all of those spacs that had no earnings are going to fall off a cliff. so if you're looking at a ford, we all hope the re-rating happens for companies like gm and for ford, but it hasn't happened in quite some time. so i don't know if the ev market flips the switch for these guys or not but this is definitely a tailwind for companies that have not had one, other than the pandemic, pull forward of getting off mass transit and buying cars this is a another tailwind. >> right once upon a time there was a pick up truck indicator when it came to the housing market and strength for pick up trucks in particular was a barometer for demand in the housing market interestingly we have a very
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hot, hot, hot housing market so james, would you rather, a car maker, an automaker or housing stock? >> it's a great question i think that there's going to be a pick up in the auto space, given the incomes have been supplemented with the paycheck protection program and stimulus and there's been a pent-up demand for getting out on the road i think people will be driving more and doing home improvement with the prices of houses probably peaking in that cycle i would go to automative if i had to bet. >> coming up cook gets grilled, a star witness in a high-stakes anti-trust lawsuit plus another bitcoin crash, plunging as china cracks down. all that and much more when "fast money" returns
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which shows will you be getting into tonight? for nearly 170 years. how 'bout all of them. netflix. 'cause xfinity gets you really into your shows. when one burns for someone who does not feel the same. daphne, let's switch. from live tv to sports on the go. felix at the finish! you can even watch your dvr from anywhere. okay, that's just showing off. you get all of this on x1. so go on, get really into your shows. you need a breath mint. xfinity. it's a way better way to watch. welcome back to "fast money. apple ceo tim cook taking the stand many a high-stakes anti-trust lawsuit brought on by video game maker epic. let's hear the details from josh >> as tim cook left the courthouse he was asked about this trial
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take a listen. >> mr. cook, how do you feel your testimony went today? how confident are you that apple will win this? >> now, in court tim cook explaining the company's focus is on the use erthat the app store has been an economic miracle in competition with mobile devices and mobile operating systems is fierce. the epic lawyer press on apple doesn't break out profit and loss statements for each business unit. maybe the most interesting part of the day came at the very end when the judge peppered cook with questions example, she questioned whether apple really did cut store fees by half to 15% for some developers because of coached and worries about small businesses or was it because of pressure from lawsuit and regulators investors paying attention because if apple loses or forced
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to make concessions it could impact app store growth going forward. analyst estimate 30% of its total revenue, closing arguments on monday and decision by mid-august. >> how did cook answer the judge to that question >> basically cook said, listen, that was not top of mind stuck with the idea that they launched that 15% program because of worries about covid and worries about how small businesses were performing at the end of the day, melissa, this is an anti-trust case so really, epic will win if it convinces the judge apple has a monopoly and is abusing the power by forcing epic to use the system if you talk to anti-trust lawyers it's tough to win because the burden of proof is on the plaintiff, epic.
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>> josh, thank you mean tile bury diller blasts apple, here's what he said on "squawk box." >> overcharged in a disgusting manner if you go through on equivalent of an app store, credit card, the transmission cost is about 2% here apple says, oh no, 30%. 30%. i mean, it's criminal. well, it's not criminal. >> let me ask you this though -- >> -- it will be criminal. >> meantime snap ceo saying he is happy to pay the 30% fee because without apple his company would not exist. you can certainly see both sides of this. karen, where do you stand, particularly someone who oholds apple. >> as a apple shareholder i stand a lot closer to the snap side of it i don't think the credit card transaction analogy is exactly
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the same i think credit cards are a completely commodity business and apple represents something very different i love barry dillard how candid he is and how he will say anything, match our little company pay $5 million to apple, not sure it's such a little company if they can afford that so i'm not crying for them, he's done an extraordinary job. all that said though, i don't know when we'll get clarity on this we heard from josh mid-august for a decision, but we've seen apple and whoever is suing apple at the time settle many times before. that could happen. and maybe it's somewhere in the middle it won the be shocking to me we seen it with qualcomm we've seen it before so i don't know what's priced into this stock though. >> right, right. >> i don't know if any discount is priced in so that would be bad >> i mean, let's say worst-case
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scenario i'm sure there are worse but let's say 15% became across the board, fact of the matter is we don't know, as tim cook said, we don't know the break out of how much money apple makes from the fees it charges apps to be in it's app store. nadine, how do you start factoring that in, in your view? >> you know, i can't believe the cfo doesn't know what it is, it's just that they don't break it out, that's the key item but i guarantee they know exactly what it is, it's probably a large number and therefore they don't want to report it. you have to believe this is a risk the thing i'd be most concerned about is in-game payment systems required to run through them, that's the real key issue here i don't think it's choosing a number like 15 or 30 or 20%. it's that it violates it's own agreement of what could happen and does provide potential liability. i would be nervous as an owner i don't think it's completely
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baked in we're looking now, it has more down side than upside. if you are looking to trim or looking to hedge i'd maybe do that before you find out the final answer when the envelope gets open. >> yeah, grasso, where do you stand? this stock already had difficulty even without this epic trial, just because of the context, the back drop of the markets right now. >> yes and but the back drop of the markets is the value growth and apple is in both camps it is growth at an affordable price, it is value. it's a very simple answer, if you have a problem with it then you shouldn't be on the app store. it's their store they have control over it. this is a non-sensical argument. services is above $50 billion for apple. that machine will continue to grow and barry dillard, all due respect, i'm sure tim cook could comment on all of his businesses and all of his margins and what was or wasn't criminal it's very simple, it's their store, they can charge it, if
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you can't afford to pay it or think it's egregious don't do it, go somewhere else. >> all right coming up, we break down costco trade and big crypto crush out of chinawe, 'll see how traders are playing the wild move, down 16 perspecent don't go anywhere. "fast money" back in two [ding] power e*trade gives you an award-winning mobile app with powerful, easy-to-use tools and interactive charts to give you an edge, 24/7 support when you need it the most and $0 commissions for online u.s. listed stocks. don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today. in business, it's never just another day. it's the big sale, or the big presentation. the day where everything goes right. or the one where nothing does.
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welcome back to "fast money. we've got a bitcoin alert, the cryptocurrency crashing again as china calls for tighter regulation around mining and trading, taking down the rest of the crypto complex bitcoin is now down more than 20% since monday we also have the biden administration in one of its
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proposals saying if bitcoin is used in a transaction that is greater than $10,000 worth it has to be reported to the irs, to make it difficult to use bitcoin for larger transactions. james, it's been an absolutely crazy week for cryptocurrency. what do you make of this ride? >> i think there's always an inverse to an amazing story, obviously the run up in bitcoin and crypto space from the beginning of year, beginning of last year, any previous point in time, the run up was crazy and amazing. for this space for investors so many people were intrigued about this cryptocurrency phenomenon in terms of investing and maybe are unsophisticated about risk this should be an index investment for people. bit bitq has an index fund since then bitcoin was $50 and down 30% and index down only 40% during that time i like to see risk managed and
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spread across this platform. it could come down a lot more. for people just getting invested do it in a diversified way. >> that's the smart way for most investing period nadine, you look at other bitcoin-related plays like coinbase it's been absolutely ugly as well how do you view this space considering it has been around a long time now and we're still riding this volatility >> right i mean, we talked about this last time and karen had made a point about pickup trucking it a point about putting it away. our firm trades it we can't fall in love with it, we have to trade it. right now it's broken our short-term and intermediate term lines looking at 44% down you could get versus 17% up. so we're just waiting to see what happens but i think more important, mel, is what china is doing they don't want dollar to be the reserve currency but they don't want bitcoin to sneak in and
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take the space they want their own digital coin, digital currency to be important in the world. we have written about that for investors last year. that and creating it's own internet back bone this is not going away, it's important fact. >> bitcoin $35,289 down 12% equity markets are closed so bitcoin doesn't close so it could be a wild weekend as well. what better way to wrap up the week to welcome in newest member sullivan patrick doyle both mother and son are doing great, congrats to bre and welcome to the "fast" family, baby sully, so adorable. time for the final trade let's go around the horn, karen. >> congratulations, that's great. for me msg entertainment. >> james >> follow the leader, built up in a market getting choppy, ford
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motor company. >> nadine? >> we're looking at bhp, keep long of inflation, so go for metals and mining. >> steve grasso. >> congratulations, brie, that's some name, i had no idea she was italian, that's awesome. sonos my final trade, getting its sea legs marching back to $45. sonos. >> that does it for us don't go anywhere "options action" is up right after this nvidia
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happy friday "options action" fans, i'm melissa lee here at cnbc global 4ekd we headquarters we have a big show lined up. here's what's ahead. >> the chartmaster sounding the alarm on the dollar. why carter worth is seeing trouble in the charts and how you can play it. plus nvidia jumping after announcing a 4 for 1 stock split. tony zhang says next week's result can send this semi-stock even higher. how he is positioning and later, mike khouw is going back to

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