multiple software names should point out the likes of apple and facebook and google and amazon all down that's a bit of a change as well that will do it for us for "squawk on the street. "techcheck" starts right now good thursday morning welcome to "techcheck. i'm carl quintanilla with jon fortt, deirdre bosa and julia boorstin the fragility of the tech rally. is a reset coming ahead of earnings apple is eating everyone's lunch, legendary venture capitalist vinod khosla will weigh in netflix won't chill, planning an

expansion into video games, d. >> we'll start on markets. tech stocks continue to print record highs, but some are calling this a fragile bull market let's bring in mark santoli for more right as we're heading into earnings, some are arguing these stocks are priced for perfection and there is risk in that. >> you know, i think it depends where you want to look in terms of whether we're talking the very largest nasdaq stocks, which have had this great run and have carried the market for several weeks right now in which you have to say, yes, they look like they have kind of rebuilt that big valuation premium but they're not where they were late last summer in terms of dominating the overall market move and being aggressively values, even relative to the earnings contribution. so case by case the setup might be difficult because the stocks have -- like a facebook or alphabet and now apple but i think that what is interesting is the segmention of the unprofitable companies, the really kind of earlier stage emerging growth type tech names

that have suffered a lot because there seems to be less of a risk appetite right at this moment, biotech has been weak, a lot of the up and coming software post ipo stocks have in the worked that well. that's been since february another down wave with those i think it is a matter of kind of a little bit of a divergence within what we broadly discuss as tech. >> and we just talked with goldman's david kostin in the last hour, specifically about a subset of those names and that is the main population his general point is even if there is a downtrend in the amount of google searches related to those names that there is still such a huge war chest among retail households and their budget for spending on stocks that it can survive on that for a while. >> sure. i think there is no doubt that we're not living in a world of scarcity, scarcity of retail brokerage accounts or money that could be shifted into equities and it is really kind of folly to try to call the end of a lot of the individual story lines or

amc or gamestop, because they feed off their own energy. it is almost they're separate from the broader market. however, the trillion dollars in money market funds which is over and above where you would expect it to be right now goes up against an equity market that is up 20 trillion from the lows of march, you know, of 2020 so, in other words, we got a lot of allocation in equities relative to what's in cash i think there is a way to argue both sides of that but, yeah, you don't want to necessarily say game over along any of those fronts, just because they're really durable themes and muscle memory in a lot of those stocks. >> all right thank you, mike santoli. and our feed this morning, i'll start with netflix pushing further into gaming, with some plans that might be too hot to handle hiring former facebook executive mike verdu to run gaming efforts. for those who are bullish on

netflix, ubs rising the price target to 620 this morning saying subs will come in higher than others expect for earnings next week. julia, this takes me back to that moment with netflix and podcasts a couple of months back i think the question is do they want to be a platform here are they expanding into a different category beyond tv and movies, or is this them using gaming as a way to expand their existing show brands and create that disney merchandising marketing effect >> well, look, jon, it could be any of the above i think in hiring verdu, you have someone who could expand netflix's gaming opportunities into any of those directions i would break this down to three categories here. one is more aggressive licensing of these properties, partnering with big game developers to develop more of their brands, more of the big netflix brands and franchises into games.

so that's really the low hanging fruit. the second category is to build a game studio within netflix this is something that say warner bros. has, disney had this, to mix success, but this idea that instead of partnering with an outside game company, you develop the games yourself the third category, the most ambitious, would be offering games on netflix streaming games, sort of similar to what you can do on some of the other platforms, you know, you can do this on facebook, you can play some more casual games on facebook, this is something you can really it, you know, that is really more of the kind of thing that actual game companies want to do. so it is really more ambitious, harder to get that right, there is a lot of potential there because it could increase the value of what some subscribers are getting, reduced turn and enabling netflix to charge more. some analysts, they're pretty bullish on this move, there is this question whether this could be a distraction from netflix's core business, which is, of course, creating tv and movies >> yeah, i guess two ways to

look at that, julia, and deirdre, i wonder what you think, because if the way it has been framed for so long is really netflix versus disney, with netflix missing the consumer flywheel, that, for example, theme parks and consumer products can give you, so maybe this is their own way of trying to shore up their defenses in i ways they can. >> yeah and we talked about this yesterday with matthew bald, the former head of amazon studios. it is not just netflix versus disney plus and the other ttt platforms anymore. it is netflix and them versus gaming versus the metaverse and social and his point was that each generation, julia, watches less and less tv and that time is being reallocated to social and gaming so if you think about it in terms of that, this is perhaps existential for netflix. they have to move into gaming, or ultimately they could lose their engagement >> well, not necessarily i think it is a mixed bag here remember i think it was q4 of

2018 netflix said the time its biggest competition was fortnite it was very popular right then they also talked about how their competition is sleek, their competition is youtube they're all of these different forces competing for consumer engagement the question is does netflix want to be the premium name, the go to name for streaming content, that is the must have service there or do they want to be offering multiple things, do they want to be the gaming service and the content service and are they going to make that two-tiered thing, you pay extra for the game here, you make it all part of that flat fee. there is so many questions here, but i think that one thing is for sure, netflix has a lot of franchises, a lot of brands they could expand into games and that to me is the clear low hanging fruit, whether they go really big and ambitious with that, we'll see. but i think a lot of consumers might wonder, i don't play games, but i do love the streaming service, do i want to have to be sort of paying this same fee or -- >> they don't play games yet

>> what disney figured out that i noticed, my boys will be playing fortnite and got the wolverine character in there, other marvel characters, then they'll move into maybe playing playstation and then there is "star wars" on playstation and then move to streaming, maybe disney plus, and be streaming a show, it is like being able to take that ip and move it both from somebody else's game to your own game on one platform to tv and a stream, that's powerful but investors need to worry, i think, about how much netflix can invest in building out any one of these things, carl. >> although, you know, i love julia's point about the potential for maybe additional revenue stream, because you'll recall, for example, laura martin said they need to have an ad-supported version, an ad lite which they have been hesitant to do, but maybe this is another way, to get that revenue flow

from a different channel, d. >> yeah, absolutely. it is going to turn itself into a platform, more of those revenue streams. speaking of social and content, let's turn to facebook it is going all in on content creators allocating a billion dollars in direct payments through 2022 new bonus initiatives across facebook and instagram will pay top users to create and post, making facebook one of the last social media giants to wade into creator payments snap hands out around $1 million a day to top creators already. twitter has tip jars and tiktok launching a $200 million creator fund just last year. so, julia, i wonder, it begs the question, is facebook late here? i thought this was interesting, they were quoted in the times saying covid is an inflexion point where creators started becoming more of a creative economy. think back to chewbacca mom, the

als bucket challenge, facebook had viral moments, they had creators, they haven't let creators capitalize on it. >> well, look, i think it is interesting. we talked about all the ways all those different platforms, tiktok, snap, twitter, all enabling creators to be paid on the platforms, don't foreget about youtube. that was the original platform that was paying creators and what is really interesting about youtube is it is a very clear revenue share. the more times your video is watched, the more ad revenue it generates and the creator gets a percentage of that what is fascinating to me about this billion dollars in spend for its creators is they want to make it tied to engagement so they're not going to do a true revenue share, more complicated than that. they're going to try to identify these different sort of bullet points, different areas that can be honed in on as -- if you get this much engagement, post this many videos we're going to compensate you for the amount of time you spend on the platform facebook is wanting to make sure

that they get the creators i would say this is different -- a different era than when we have the chewbacca mom this is about a new generation of almost small businesses, you know facebook has been really focused on lots of different kinds of small businesses we're seeing a new generation and independent creators, the solo entrepreneur trying to figure out how to make money, skill set from their fan base and i think there is still enough time for them to figure this out. >> i kind of don't get it in the sense you mentioned youtube, youtube of all of them did a pretty good job of creating an economy around this. facebook seems to have sort of intentionally sat things out with facebook, they didn't want to pay up for content there in a big way. maybe they felt like they could get enough chewbacca moms for free, they didn't have to do it. and but now they want to come in with a billion dollars, but tied to engagement metrics that facebook has more control over i think don't creators want more control over their content, the ability to move it here and there to sort of own the

audience and isn't this facebook once again not having a clear economic model that puts creators in the driver's seat. a billion dollars sounds like a lot. compared to what amazon is spending for mgm, what apple and others -- it is not that much. >> i wouldn't compare it to mgm. this is apples and bananas here they're trying to create clear guidelines for what you have to do to get a certain amount of compensation it is not going to be a clean revenue share the way it is on youtube. i think the reality is that creators want to go where the people are, they want to go where their fans are and they will be on multiple platforms. facebook needs to make sure that they're a player there if you look at the success of the reels format, effectively what tiktok pioneered, now we're seeing tiktok grow faster than ever, you know you have tiktok with 3 billion downloads, the only nonfacebook app to get to that number. and you have to think, okay,

maybe they're going to be multiple players that succeed here i think if you look at facebook, facebook evolved, first about sharing baby pictures, then about sharing news, now facebook understands that people don't necessarily want to share news, maybe that's not the best news to the platform, maybe more value in getting facebook to be the place where creators interact with their fans and fans get that kind of content that they're most interested in. i don't think that we would -- we should count facebook out yet, nor count out tiktok or other players. they have different audiences and a lot of cases have the same creators on multiple platforms >> yeah, i guess it depends whether you think james bond movie and chewbacca mom are equivalent levels of entertainment, i guess we'll have to wait and see aconsumers decide before the break, a tearful good-bye today for twitter's fleets feature the disappearing message feature is disappearing. its answer to snap stories is short lived.

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♪ dream until your dreams come true ♪ let's get a gut check on norton life lock the company in talks to acquire cybersecurity company avast. the deal, which could value avast at over $8 billion could come as soon as this month norton life lock shares are down almost 5% this morning. >> a lot of people think big tech might be eating up opportunity for the rest of the industry apple in the past few months undercutting some startup rivals in april releasing air tag device trackers intended to replace things like tile at wwdc in june, showcasing facetime on the web, which rivals zoom, which is public and yesterday announcing a buy now pay later feature for apple pay, sending fintech rival affirm tumbling more than 10%

this week. joining us to break down the state of the ecosystem coastal ventures founder vinod khosla. great to have you. i want to know how you view this balance between these big tech plat for platforms creating opportunity in many cases, in the cloud are resources like infrastructure as a service, or with app stores, but then also taking away potentially opportunity by expanding into areas where third parties like the ones you invest in are growing what's the impact? >> this kind of ecosystem has always been the opportunity talking about here was created by amazon creating a lot of technology for itself. so this ecosystem of big players

doing things that validates the opportunity is a constant battle in the startup ecosystem it won't be large enough to the amazon hadn't created something every one of its competitors wants. and so walmart, target, fedex, all of these people need the kind of tech amazon has created for itself, and it creates a massive opportunity for new integrated suppliers >> from your perspective, is it healthy is my question even if we have seen this cooperation from platform creators or platform owners in the past, has it gotten to a point where there need to be a certain type of guardrails or certain types of that competition or unhealthy or are you comfortable with it? >> i don't have strong views on -- what i will say is that

generally the more competition, the more startups do well and there are more agile and carve out their own segments so am i unhappy about apple offering buy now pay later like affirm does? no, i think it will do just fine i doubt apple can keep up with the kind of technology, even with the partnership they have that affirm has established. and the market segment can grow larger how it balances out depends on how affirm performs. it also depends on how companies like bookshire perform at amazon. >> we spoke to -- >> sorry anybody but amazon -- >> go ahead -- >> market -- yeah, and anybody but amazon is the large market in robotics and automation, ai,

there is many, many large segments trying to meet customer demand for orders, low cost delivery, all that in every area, from e-commerce to store fulfillment, third party logistics, grocery, to parcel transportation, everything we're seeing as immediate responsiveness from commerce and e-commerce is what the opportunity becomes. >> right, i -- >> it is exploding because of amazon sorry. >> it is a good point that the things that the big players do validate the competition and create new markets but i wonder at a certain point do they get an unfair advantage? we spoke to affirm competitor klarna yesterday who operates in the pay later space. and apple, if they come out with their own products, have the advantage of bundling. they're in over a million active

iphone devices around the world. at that point, does that give them an unfair advantage should regulators be looking to rein in or regulate that type of competition? >> well, i think there is a lot of activity on antitrust the key point here is if you are a vendor, do you want everything to be dependent on one of the big players? the answer is no many more people will partner with independent players and the competition in this space is very, very high. for example, klarna, affirm, they're all good, strong competitors. and so it is not like there hasn't been competition in the ecosystem, affirm has done very well there i suspect the same will happen in all these areas, be it in buy now, pay later or in automation

and robotics, very, very active area for both investment, market growth and stiff competition for integrated solutions in the end, what really matters is the quality of your tag and the quality of your consumer experience the financial institutions have generally done very, very poorly in anything that involves great consumer experience, the legacy companies have companies like affirm have done well when it comes to state of our technology, like in robotics and automation, there is almost no legacy that have great technology so operator like bookshire is a great technology, and a comprehensive solution because there are lots of startups with tiny pieces of the solution. it is just a large enough market

that going large i don't think competition hurts as much as people think it does >> i am curious, there was a period coming out of the pandemic, say, last fall, where it was clear that stores and restaurants were going to reopen, consumers were going to want to shop in person again shopping would become entertainment again. as a result, e-commerce would make up a smaller share of overall retail sales at least. we will look back at that notion and think of it as a blip coming out of the pandemic? >> my personal view is what consumers demand is convenience and instant pay. serious amounts of technology for consumer expectations. i think e-commerce as a larger percentage is a growing threat but as far as i'm concerned, whether it is e-commerce or retail commerce, berkshire grey serves both markets, grocery or

it is third party logistics, every part of the supply chain has to improve dramatically in responsiveness and lower costs and that, i think, is the opportunity to -- for new tech companies, new ai and robotics companies that serious ai technology i think there is a big difference in the quality of technology among whether it is traditional players or affirm, i think nobody else can match as far as i can tell or in a b berkshire grey, without a lot of customization. >> yeah, more smarter robots seems like a safe bet at this point in time. vinod, thank you so much. >> thank you very much coming up on the show, cathie wood explains her stance on chinese tech stocks

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resetting here near the bottom of the hour welcome back to "techcheck." the fed chair being grilled, currently testifying in front of senate banking steve liesman has an update. hey, steve. >> interesting proceedings jay powell telling senators this morning that the fed is an active consideration of the criteria for figuring out whether to reduce its asset purchases. that's a step further than he did in his testimony yesterday before the house he said the consideration started at the june meeting and will continue in july. powell continued to insist in the face of persist ent questioning, grilling, but said if it is not, the fed is going to act >> we're experiencing a big

uptick in inflation, bigger than mr. expected, bigger than i expected and we're trying to understand whether it is something that will pass through fairly quickly or whether we need toant we act. we're not going to be going into a period of high inflation for a long time. we have tools to address that. >> powell is getting heat from republicans for helping drive inflation through easy monetary policy with their concern and criticism of higher spending plans for the biden administration and he's criticized from democrats for reforms to banking regulations under the powell fed. so deirdre, getting it from both sides. >> steve, thank you very much for bringing that to us. cathie wood is bullish on china's future despite what she's done with her portfolio, the ark innovation etf dropped their chinese investment weight to less than

1% on tuesday after holding 8% in february. wood said she's not out on china just yet >> what you will not see us do with the chinese stocks is pull out of those names that are more endemic to china itself. china does want to be a leader in innovation. and is very supportive for its companies scaling as quickly as they can internally. >> the etf is falling this week, on track for its tenth negative day. down 4.5% on the week. what is interesting is, yes, beijing is interested in innovation everything we have seen over last few weeks tells us they're more interested in maintaining control and protecting data. so i wonder what cathie woods' plan going forward is, perhaps if she thinks there is further to fall, she's waiting to get back in. she still sounded pretty

bullish. >> well, we talked about too big to fail. maybe there is such a thing as too big to succeed meanwhile, the street's top ranked apple analyst is joining the host of bulls we talked about yesterday. morgan stanley upped the price target to 166. joining the chorus of iphone optimism on wall street. shares this morning touched a 52-week high, but now off fractionally stay with us icy hot. ice works fast. heat makes it last. feel the power of contrast therapy, so you can rise from pain.

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welcome back a founder of google's self-driving project is taking its own autonomous vehicle startup public today let's get over to phil lebeau with the ceo of aurora hey, phil. >> hi, carl. let's bring in chris urmson, the co-founder and ceo of aurora, which for the last four years has been developing autonomous vehicle technology we'll talk about the road map in a little bit, chris, but tell us why this deal came together, how quickly it came together, and how do you address the concerns that people have that, look, this is just another spac and we're not sure when this company is actually going to pay off for us. >> it is an incredibly exciting day for us as a company and for this technology moving forward for the last four and a half years we have really been

investing in building the foundations of what it takes to ship a product in this space i've known reed and the team for a long time. they're deeply experienced in what they're doing as we look to expand aurora's access to capital so we can go and deliver on this mission, tapping the public market seemed like the right move for us so we're excited about where we are today. >> the valuation of this deal at $11 billion. now, your road map calls for you to deliver your first level four autonomous driving system to either paccard so they can put these into their trucks. how confident are you we will actually see level four autonomous driving on the streets and on highways late

'23, early '24 >> this is what we have, deep experience in the team and this incredible group of 1600 people working on the problem and so we're feeling uniquely qualified to understand how to get there and what it is going to take. we have been investing in foundational technologies, whether it is our lidar technology, first light that allows us to see several hundred meters down the road or offline simulation capability, and it gives us enough data to validate the system and have confidence that it is safe to put on the road and so we can't see the future, of course. but we're committed in work hard toward that day. >> good morning, chris it is deirdre. last year you guys purchased uber self-driving unit and for uber it was, you know, a major money loser, lost about $300 million at least last year have you been able to improve margins and when do you expect

autonomous driving to become profitable >> for us that partnership was really -- that acquisition was about bringing the talent that was necessary to solve the problem together along with incredible technology partnerships out of that deal we're now partnered with the world's number one ride hailing platform with uber. the world's number one auto manufacturer with toyota and with two of the top three truck manufacturers in north america that make up about 50% of the market we're spring loaded to enter the market with what we think are the best partnerships in the industry the team that we're able to bring in from uber to augment the amazing folks we had at aurora really puts us at the critical -- necessary to solve the problem. we expect to get a product to do market at the end of 23, and then because our businessmodel is one of driver as a service type model, where we get paid for the utilization, think of it as a usage base sass model, we think this becomes an excitingul

improve road safety, and access and eligibility -- or equitablef it, but create an immense amount of value for our shareholders over time. >> how do you think about competition with wemo. it is seen as a leader in autonomous driving technology. >> we have a ton of respect for everyone working in the space. this is an important problem that matters to solve. and the space is gigantic. transportation in the u.s. is like $1.8 trillion market. and so there is room for multiple players and as there should be in a market of that scale. that said, i think about aurora, i look at the landscape, i think about the people, the technology, the partnerships, and the go market strategy and

so with aurora, the team puts us in a rarified area, i think two or three teams at the scale that we are, in terms of the technology that deep experience we have aloud us to make strategic bets that will actually unlock the technology at a commercial scale, not just as a demonstration our partnerships as i talked about are really profoundly valuable and important we see the opportunity to help raise their businesses and thus scale ours over time and finally i think this is important, as a public market investor, we're going to be the only company you can directly invest in, where we're tackling the trucking problem and that massive market, and also the ride hailing partnership and through our engagement with ride hailing application, through our partnership with uber, we'll be able to deliver a product to market that starts to serve people before it has to do everything we think getting into market is really important here. >> chris, it is phil one final question we have talked for a number of years. i think the first time we talked

your son was 9 or 10 years old and you said my goal is he never has to get a driver's license. self-driving cars will be the way of getting around, around town, wherever you want to go. your son, i believe, is going to be turning 18, he now has a learner's permit how confident are you that he will not have to be doing his own driving, let's say by the time he's 25 or when he's 30 >> yeah, and i think it is really important when you work on something as challenging as what we are to set a goal, set a mission. i've been fortunate through my career, i've been able to pursue that i've been working in the space for going on 20 years now. i think, yes, our expectation is that you'll be able to use this technology in the near future, and that over time it is going to be a massive benefit in terms of the safety, accessibility and efficiency of moving people through the world. >> chris urmson, co-founder and

ceo of aurora, thank you for joining us, chris. guys, they expect this deal to close later this year, and when it does, this will be once again people saying, okay, the clock is ticking, when do we actually see level four autonomous technology they say by late '23, early '24. we'll see how it progresses from here back to you. >> and we have that timeline, two years ago, i talked to him as well. he's sticking to it. which as you know can be impressive in the space as timelines often get pushed further out. thank you for bringing that to us. s my mizuho says buying square now is like buying jpm stock in 1871. the analyst behind that call is going to join us tomorrow. don't miss that. we're back in a moment

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as more employees return to physical offices, at least part time, companies are trying to figure out what hybrid work looks like one of the biggest tech players to emerge out of the pandemic, video conferencing giant zoom. as part of a cnbc technology executive council gathering yesterday, i spoke with zoom ceo eric uwan and harry moseley. two of the biggest challenges are retaining talent in a remote environment and keeping a high level of quality for zoom

meetings >> the challenge comes from how to on board the new employees and even if you have several hundred employees a quarter, how to engage with them. >> like march or april when we moved a lot of the free service out to the cloud, so we could free up our data center capacity to support our enterprise paying plans. because that's where the secret sauce is, it is in that data center and that's where, you know, sort of -- and the reason, you know, we do that is that we want to protect the meeting, the meeting -- this meeting as an example is not running in any cloud. >> so keeping a lot of those paid customers in their data center while also using the cloud, d you also hosted a panel on the future of remote work there. >> yeah, i interviewed enrique gevagrasu.

he said they're aiming for the internet, not the office he spoke about building relationships remotely and how they are taking cues fro youtube creators on how they build such strong connections with their audiences >> one of the things that us and our managers have been starting to do is a more like vlog-like communications channel the employees feel more connected to us than what we just, i saw you passing by in the office or saw you in the meeting room, right? i think there is a lot of things that the internet solved before, how to do things that we should look to copy instead of trying to bring what we did into the office into the online version >> for more on the cnbc technology executive council, head over to cnbc.com/tec. carl >> that's fascinasfascinating. one employer said work is

something we do, not somewhere we go. the co-creator of dogecoin said he's not getting back into crypto anytime soon. that and the latest on binance with nick carter in a moment it's another day. and anything could happen. it could be the day you welcome 1,200 guests and all their devices. or it could be the day there's a cyberthreat. get ready for it all with an advanced network and managed services from comcast business. and get cybersecurity solutions that let you see everything on your network. plus an expert team looking ahead 24/7 to help prevent threats. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities.

a lot of news in the advertising business today and it looks like it's kind of

booming, julia boorstin. >> that's right. this year's up fronts revealing a booming ad market. cnbc's parent company comcast announcing the biggest up-front ad sales period ever, with double-digit increases in volume and price across the company's assets and there is particular strength in digital with $19.5 billion in sales up from last year, driven by peacock, drawing more than half a billion dollars in up-front ad commitments. and the super bowl is already 85% soldout with ad prices for sunday night football hitting record highs we are seeing the strength particularly in digital at other giants as well roku reports the up-front had doubled last year's volume in over 40% of advertisers are on the platform for the first time. and last month disney reported double-digit percentage increases in revenue across broadcast cable and major

sports, with 40% of the up-front dollars committed to streaming and digital. there is more news of surging up-front ad commitments, all of this bodes well for the media giants, ahead of earnings season kicking off next week. guys. >> we'll see the results, julia. thanks. here is the reminder we've got a podcast for "techcheck." subscribe, listened anywhere, any time, available wherever you download podcasts. and tech check on tv will be back in a moment

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tonight why gas station owners sue colonial pipeline after the massive cyberattack. plus our american comeback series heads to the big east the rebellion is here. old money is out new money is in. >> that was spike lee hopping on the bitcoin band wagon promoting a digital cryptocurrency machine saying the digital rebellion is here some people are racing, though, to jump off that band wagon. the creator of dogecoin raised eyebrows when he said he was quiting crypto tweeting cryptocurrency is like taking

the worst parts of the capitalist system and using software to technically limit the use of interventions serving as protections or safety nets for the archl person here to discuss is capital island partner, nick carter. kbraet to have you back with us. what do you make of that indictment, especially, the idea that it's coming from someone who created one of the most popular cryptocurrencies >> well, dogecoin is really just a copy pace coin of light coin and took off despite jackson palmer's best efforts. he has always been rather bemused by success he hasn't been relevant in the crypto space a long time creating a copy paste of a crypto currency and having it succeed despite you i don't know if we should give his opinions that much weight, frankly. >> that's totally fair and i remember when dogecoin was becoming more popular we

questioned whether we should be even talking about it on cnbc because it was created as a joke but the fact of the matter, nick, is that it did become so popular. at one point it was the third most popular cryptocurrency. and elon musk has been tweeting about it so what toes that say about the broader market about bitcoin >> well, bitcoin exists on its own merits of course there is all the eddys in bitcoin's wake, which was undifferentiated bitcoins. in code bitcoin held philosophical values and beliefs with regard to property rights dogecoin i exists as a mockery of bitcoin you know, it's probably been successful in that respect caused a lot of distraction. but there is a core community of people that genuinely believe in a political mutual non-state money and they are working hard and we're investing in these poem people to make the dreemt a reality. we try not to focused too much on the clones effectively.

>> tell me what you think the crypto space needs right now in the sense that i see a lot of people bullish on it saying that, for example, bitcoin is the solution to everything but as we have rise in ransomware and other issues, we have more people calling for the regulation of it are there enough voices out there kind of maturely saying crypto is important and here is what needs to happen for it to continue to be viable? >> it really depends on the voices that you isolate and identify something like ransomware, of course, bitcoin is not the cause of ransomware. the cause of that thing is simply the fact that there is insecure servers out there and, you know, crypto currency is merely a means to instrumentalize the bounty there. but of course crime existed with cash it's -- cash is really the favored instrument for criminals. i don't think it's an indictment of cryptocurrency that criminals use it ultimately it's a monetary

network open to all. you're going to get all kinds of actors, illicit and elicit in terms of work from the industry, people are trying to propose -- we are seeing more transparency for miners for instance, seeing more self-regulatory organizations get created. there is progress there. >> on the other side of that, nick, you have binance coming under more and more scrutiny you say it could be the gray swan event in crypto >> yeah, binance, it doesn't surprise me the regulators are aggressively going after it. they are largely stateless, don't really have a domicile it's going to be very challenging to instrumentalize a crackdown on them. if it does occur i'd expect to see it through the financial sector, the banks. >> nick, appreciate that very much obviously it's a topic of much discussion on our air and even fed chair powell in front of senate banking just a few moments ago said cryptocurrencies in his words

have completely failed to become a payment mechanism except for those who desire anonymity there is the comment the other on a the wires is that powell said the market has at times felt a bit frothy. we'll watch that let's g get to the judge and "the half," big show coming up >> carl thanks so much welcome to the "halftime report"" i'm scott wapner front and center, exclusive interview with jeffrey gundlach and stocks hover near record highs we deepest debate where the money heads from here. tiffany! gee, josh brown. jim lebenthal. jeffrey gundlach the dow has gone positive. the s&p and nasdaq are in negative territory right as we speak. there is the 10-year note yield. it is at 1.32, a little bit lower than that not too long ago, as the fed chair taking capitol hill for the second day. yields as i said falling