>> monster beverage. what a quarter last week 34% sales growth can i finally get my hundred dollar print for this company? i think i've been talking about it for the last couple years i think it's coming soon. >> pete, quick. >> crypto is on fire i'm going with riot blockchain good to see everybody. thanks for watching. "the exchange" is now. >> thanks so much, scott i'm eamon javers back with you at cnbc headquarters filling in for kelly evans. capitol hill meets crypto. the digital currency caught in the middle of congress's attempt to move the infrastructure bill for ward we'll look at what's at stake there. the billionaire versus the brokers. we'll speak with former hedge fund manager john arnold on his battle against firms like fidelity when it comes to charity. the newest way to make money in housing even when you're not selling your house we begin with today's markets

and dom chu has the numbers. >> we're pulling back on what we saw on friday by the dow and the s&p 500. but not by a lot down down about 70 points today. s&p 500 only down about three points, and the nasdaq outperforming, up about .2%. just about close to its own record highs we'll keep an eye on the nasdaq composite. with regard to the weakness in the market today, a lot of the downside is being driven around the fears of the covid delta variant and what it could do to the economy, if things slow down, maybe shut down or restrict again check out marriott international on the hotel sigh, down 3% live nation, concerts and live venues down about 3% american airlines, united airlines two of the worst performing in the transportation group, down about 3% as well and then the biggest gainer in

the s&p 500 by a wide margin, moderna up 16%, 360% gains so far this year. they get two big conditional approvals, one in australia for its covid-19 vaccine and one in switzerland for temporary use in children aged 12 to 17 that's driving a lot of the upside there to give you a contextual move about this, eamon, this is a company worth roughly $190 billion. that's important because what does that make it as big as? pharmaceutical and drug giant merck, the same size as moderna now. back over to you. >> dom, thanks for that. a little like back to the future when you see those names that got clobbered last year getting hit this year, a little liss heartening as we watch the delta variant spread inside the capitol, debate is taking place on a $1 trillion infrastructure bill with a vote likely to happen late tonight.

that can always change as the senate makes up its rules as it goes along as the details make their way through capitol hill, we're covering two key issues here, the two cs first crypto, which has become a last-minute sticking point as the senate looks towards regulation, and second, climate. as the u.n. drops a bombshell report on climate which it calls a code red for humanity. what does this bill do to address climate concerns let's begin with ylan mui. ylan, this is happening this week, right? >> it looks like this is finally going to happen. the senate will hold a final vote on the infrastructure package no later than early tomorrow morning lawmakers are hoping to push through a last-minute fix for the crypto industry. this bill creates new irs reporting requirements as a way to pay for the trillion dollars in spending. but the industry feels it will

sweep up not just the exchanges, but miners, note operators and validaters as well today gop senator pat toomey announced compromise language that he says has the backing of key democrats and the treasury department it focuses on the type of transaction being conducted rather than the type of technology. >> a year from now there will be all kinds of new innovations that we haven't thought of, that probably nobody has thought of we may have to go back and revisit the rules. but what we shouldn't do is have an overly broad mandate, a reporting requirement on people who can't possibly comply. >> that was the industry's main complaint, with everyone from jack dorsey to elon musk to brian armstrong of coinbase, accusing the government of picking crypto winners and losers still, it would take unanimous consent in the senate to make the change this late in the game eamon, it's not entirely clear despite this agreement, if the new language will actually make it into the final version of the bill.

>> ylan, what are the chances there? do you think we'll see some language change here in the next couple of hours? people have been watching this all through the weekend, watching that definition of who has to file these 1099 forms in terms of crypto. you think we'll see a change at the last minute or do you think things will be pretty much locked down? >> i think it's going to be a nail-biter, eamon. we're expecting something to happen on the floor of the senate around 3:30 this afternoon. keep your eyes there for any more developments, but because you need 100 senators or 99 in this case because one senator is in quarantine, to agree to this in order for it to happen, that's a very high bar to clear, higher than the normal 60-vote threshold you need to see bipartisan legislation pass. i'll be watching at 3:30 >> ylan, thanks so much. let's drill down on the implications of these last-minute regulations on the crypto landscape joining me is william quigley, one of the co-founders of the stable coin tether, the

co-founder of go coin and cryptocurrency partners. you heard what ylan just said in terms of the debate on capitol hill what's the issue from the cryptocurrency industry's perspective? what's the problem with this bill >> you have two broad issues one is a revenue enhancement, part of the infrastructure bill. this would be to tax crypto more than it's taxed now, and the other is how the irs in the united states will figure out which transactions are happening, by who, and so who actually owes these tax bills. the fact that there will be potentially $30 billion of taxes that will be collected over the next few years as a result of better tax compliance, that is hard to debate with because there's no underlying assumptions built around that. so somebody put a figure in

there. we're not sure where it came from as far as the tax compliance goes, there's always been an assumption that cryptocurrencies aid in the evasion of taxes. and while there's almost no evidence to support that, that's an assumption, and it's because it's anonymous who buys and who sells can be anonymous, not always. so what this infrastructure bill is suggesting is that we start to do a lot more reporting, akin to what you see, let's say, when you open a bank account or do a stock trade. so what we call kyc which is know your customer this is sort of procedures that would be submitting your identification, letting the crypto exchange that's selling your currency know who you are so they can file reports with the irs. that's not controversial because it turns out most businesses that are taking in money in

order to do something in crypto, they have to know who you are anyway simply to make sure that there's not fraud, identity fraud or credit card fraud the issue is more around who in this blockchain industry is going to be required to report and if there's a centralized businesslike an exchange that has people you talk to who can request this, it's fine. there's a number of things in blockchain where it's just software you're interacting with it's a smart contract. in those situations there is no individual who is operating that piece of software who can do the collection and the reporting i think it's more of an education problem for the senate to understand this so that they don't disrupt the entire cryptocurrency industry by asking for something that's simply not capable of being produced. >> i wonder how many senators have ever even seen cr

cryptocurrency on a screen anywhere this is a demographic group that tends to be super old. when it comes to technology across the board, senators are famous for being way behind the times. when you look at this problem, which is a new problem, you wonder how much they really know what it is they're dealing with and what the implications and consequences could be. i wanted to ask you william, about the point you made that there's almost no evidence for tax fraud. you're right, a lot of people assume there's tax fraud going on with these cryptocurrencies and some customers may be getting into them thinking here is a way i can make a lot of money and not tell the irs you say there's almost no evidence what percentage of crypto buyers are brought into it by that desire to hide from the irs? >> you know, maybe in the early days, 2010, '11, '12, maybe people thought that would be a reason forgetting into it. but these days, it's very hard

to elude any authority who want to track down who someone is there's anonymity in blockchain because you can set up an account and you don't have to provide your credit card, your driver's license but if you want to do anything with those cryptocurrencies, you want to sell them on an exchange, you want to keep them in a wallet, generally speaking, you have to report who you are to somebody. there's a lot of analytics now, a lot of analytics companies that are very good at tracing these transactions back to the person who has been conducting them. >> the tax man is going to get you no matter what >> yeah. it's almost a misunderstanding blockchain is actually -- since every transaction is recorded, it's actually much harder to evade, let's say, paying your taxes than it would be, for instance, if you had a business and you're doing traditional fee-out money and putting money

into bank accounts that's a misunderstanding that can be corrected by explaining more the problem here is that the infrastructure bill needs to be funded cryptocurrencies look like a juicy target because they're new and there's potentially a lot of revenue that the government could collect. i think they're going at it from that perspective we can get this money as opposed to saying what's the best way to do it. like any legislation, there's a rush to get it done. that's the problem we're kind of rushing into something that frankly congress has neglected for years. >> william, thank you so much for your expertise i hope to have you back on here once this bill actually passes and we can figure out where this debate landed. it's very much, as ylan was saying, a moving target throughout the afternoon anyway. william quigley, thank you for your time and expertise. for the climate discussion, brady dennis is a pulitzer prize

winning reporter for "the washington post. he focuses on the environment and public health. brady, tell us what you think the most important element of this bill is in terms of climate and the biden administration's push there what's the one piece you think will make the most difference? >> i think the biggest question mark is how far it goes in allowing president biden to sort of live up to the promises he made on what he's going to do on climate, on the environment. there is obviously tens of billions of dollars in here for clean energy funding, renewables, that kind of thing a lot of money for communities schools, businesses, other places to work on being more resilient with some of this extreme weather we're seeing there's money for charging of electric cars and all this the main question mark is it's obviously not the scale of spending on climate measures that a lot of democrats and the president wanted so i think an open question is

how much do they try to come back in following legislation and fund those measures in a much more e robust way. >> one of the big questions for investors in this is going to be how much funding is there for electric vehicles and electric vehicle charging in particular that's been one of the ping-pong balls in this debate going back and forth. i wonder if you think there's anything in this bill in terms of electric vehicles that will be a difference maker. we've got the infrastructure running, a lot of it is tesla-based. is there going to be a transformational event in terms of ev charging and, therefore, the availability of ev to a much greater number of americans. >> i think it's a little bit of a chicken and egg thing, right where is the tipping point where a much greater number of americans decide they're going to buy an electric vehicle is it a certain price point? a certain level of convenience

when there's enough charging stations wherever the infrastructure may be whereas the white house and democrats are concerned, they want this bill and others that follow to fund that in a way that speeds up that transition from a climate perspective, certainly president biden and his administration wants to speed that transition away from certainly the gas-powered cars and coal-fired power plants and that sort of infrastructure to a much cleaner one that's going to be needed in the years ahead so how quickly that happens, how big of a piece this particular bill is, i think still remains to be seen we'll certainly add some infrastructure that wasn't there. does that really speed it up on a national level i'm not quite sure. >> it's a great debate and a good question. no matter how you look at it, there's a lot of money at play in this bill thank you, brady dennis, for your perspective on all of this. coming up, with stocks falling from friday's record highs, are concerns over the

delta variant outweighing the optimism around infrastructure and the strong jobs report we saw on friday. we'll discuss that plus, the battle of the billionaire versus the brokers philanthropist john arnold is fighting to force donor-advised funds to give more to charity every year we'll speak to him about why he's taking on the trading titans and going after their so-called warehouses of cash don't go anywhere. we're coming right back after this sofi is a one-stop shop for your finances designed to work better together. save, spend, borrow, invest, and earn cash back rewards, all in one app. that's how you get your money right with sofi. folks the world's first fully autonomous vehicle is almost at the finish line today we're going to fine tune the dynamic braking system

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welcome back to "the exchange." stocks lower with if dow and s&p 500 retreating the surge in the delta variant renewing concerns about global growth given the risks are stocks now overvalued? given those risks, what happens if the fed tapers anyway will it lead to a market tantrum? joining me is bryce dodi, the senior portfolio manager and hue johnson from hugh johnson advisers i have a son whose name is hugh, so i'm biased that way, but let me start with you. you said to our producers you

thought stocks, despite the record high we saw at the end of the week last week were still undervalued. how is that possible given delta and given the fed tapering on the horizon? how is it that you look at that and you say it's still undervalued. >> if you're talking about delta, there's certainly risks in the market. what we've seen this year is pretty straightforward every step of the way we've had a rise in stock prices you become a little concerned about valuation. the next thing you see along with the rise in stock prices is an increase in the consensus estimate for what earnings are going to be for this year as well as next year. so what you have this year is upward revisions to earnings this is very much, eamon, very much of an earnings driven market every time you get a move-up in stock prices you get a move-up in the

consensus expectation for learnings. they're going in lock stock. quite frankly, the stokt market is a little behind and undervalued. valuation is not a concern i can see completely, if you get a little tapering earlier than we expected, that's not particularly good news of course, it's very hard to estimate what the impact of covid-19, the delta variant is going to be on economic out put? is it going to lead to the kind of lockdowntion or shutdowns we saw in march or april of 2020. i don't think so i don't think that's in the cards, but you've got to worry about it. >> hugh, what's driving the earnings expectations that you point to as the source of all this optimism? is that just the reopening affecting every company in every sector of the economy, or is there something else going on? >> it's certainly reopening. when you get an earnings growth rate in the second quarter of 85.5% year over year or for the

year 40% year over year, a lot of that is just recovery, but it's also what u.s. companies are doing. take a look at the margins of u.s. companies they're really doing very well, particularly when they've got upward pressure on wages which we see in just about all the numbers. upward pressure on wages, and obviously upward pressure because supply shortages on materials prices, but despite the fact they've been able to expand those margins in part it's recovery which is a very strong and impressive rec recovery a big part is what companies are doing. they're doing very well. >> bryce, what are the areas of concern you see? companies, as hugh says, are doing well earnings expectations are bullish. are there areas of concern you have looking at this outside of covid and outside of the fed >> clearly treasury bonds are in a bubble the ten-year yield is so low

as much as the treasury might have an impact on the stock market, that's where the stock market maybe isn't overvalued but i could consider them vulnerable, vulnerable to a rise in rates if that bubble bursts what would it take to burst that bubble that's where we get back to your comment about temper tantrum if the fed syphons money, that's what it takes. without the interference, the mass of money injected as well by congress, you wouldn't have yields as low as they are considering the inflation rates, where they are and what's going on as we come out of this pandemic so, therefore,you know that they're the ones suppressing the rates. as rates have come down, that's even pushed up equities even further. so that's where you might have some concern on the equity front. that said, there still are pockets of undervalued areas, both in the stock and bond market where you can still make

a decent amount of money. >> bryce,does timing matter? i've been watching steve leishman summarizing what the fed wise men and watchers are saying about the timing, whether a hint in september, then tightening later in the year or what the various scenarios are does it matter to the bond market, if your view, whether the fed tightens this year late or next year early >> oh, it does the gold post keeps getting moved out as far as the timing of when the fed does act i'm now in the camp where i think that powell is going to wait and see if he gets reappointed before he starts stirring the pot that happens in february i don't think there's going to be any tapering between now and then i think some ways you make money between now and then, you ride the tips bond wave we're making almost a point a month in principal increase on tips to protect yourself against the

variant, you go into the etf germ, but you counterbalance that with an etf that's tied to travel i agree with hugh. i don't think we're going into a lockdown, so an etf there is a way. you couple those together and you've got a pretty diversified portfolio between the tips, away and germ the other thing is europe is opening, they're experiencing inflation. that's a stunner, they're finally experiencing inflation that's due to shipping costs and trying to restock inventory. there's still opportunity, but the timing is critical after the first quarter of next yeerks i get pretty nervous. >> bryce, i'm going to put a pin in my calendar in february we'll come back in february and talk to you aboutthe taper

bryce doty and hugh johnson, thank you for being here and sharing your thoughts with us. coming up, bank of america says there's still 40% upside in this casino name despite a sse rally. we'll tell you which name they're betting on and why ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google, turn up the heat. ♪ ♪ ♪ that building you're trying to sell, - you should ten-x it. - ten-x it? ten-x is the world's largest online commercial real estate exchange. if i could, i'd ten-x everything. like a coffee run... don't just sell it. ten-x it.

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a texas ban on mask mandates he says they're required at least temporarily until he can protect staff and students from the delta variant. how are florida schools dealing with rising infections as classes start tomorrow. shep explains it all at 7:00 p.m. eastern. texas democratic lawmakers are returning home right now they won a key legal victory barring them from being arrested from leaving the state and blocking a republican voting bill more than half of the democrats who fled to washington, d.c. are now back in texas. a federal judge showing skepticism the new cdc eviction moratorium will stand up it's virtually identical to a similar ban which the supreme court criticized saying the biden administration lacked authority to issue it. there's your news for now. i'll throw it back to you. coming up, the back-to-school blues so early, only august 9th.

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welcome back let's catch you up on a few stories that should be on your radar. it's time for "rapid fire. here are courtney reagan and mike santoli and gina sanchez. the surging delta variant could spoil what's expected to be a record setting back-to-school shopping season. the national retail federation expects spending for k-12 students to hit more than $37 billion this year. it also forecasts back-to-college spending to hit a record $71 billion thanks to pent-up demand and child tax credits. surging cases are putting a return to classrooms in doubt. the u.s. topped 100,000 new covid cases on saturday. courtney, maybe it's the kid in me or maybe the fact i was just at the beach over the weekend, i'm a little bummed that we're already talking about back to school and it's already august 9th. where do you see this season playing out?

we've never had a season like the one we're about to have. >> that's right. it's different in different areas of the country as far as when school starts i'm from the midwest and the kids are starring back in a week or so, even though in new york city they start much later back to school is a rolling season when it comesa year unli kids being right away, some went were mase weren't.yes, you have tos are u and how to federatio missed time. i think we don't know exactly what's going to happen becausei

to consumer demand alng a slowdown yet but acknowledge that uncertainty is still are investors unsure do they know how to play this one going into the ingesters rit now are taking it one day at a days we don't know what will happen in the next 30 days. this could happen one of two ways it could be a very quick spike with a very, very quick recovery time probably nothing will change it will just feel very turbulent, or it could be something that lasts longer. even if that happens, i do believe that the reaction by schools may be more delayed,

meaning that you will still probably -- i haven't yet heard any school system say they're not going to have children coming back to school. if that's the case, you're going to have to clothe your kid. >> going back to school whether you like it or not, kid. next up, drivers returning to job share providers new data from rack ten shows uber and lyft fairs increased month to month since february. consumers paid over 50% more last month than in january 2020 before the pandemic began. both companies blamed it on a driver shortage. last month uber reported a 30% increase in drivers, and lyft a 50% increase is this part of the labor shortage story we've heard so much about or a wagestory that d about a little less. >> it's also clarifying who

exactly is the customer, so to speak, of uber and lyft. it's both drivers and riders but in this case the power does lie with the scarce drivers. also, i think it threatens to make these services a little bit less kind of effortless and ubiquitous you don't think about it you call an uber it becomes something you have to consider comes at the same time you have record prices in new car and used car sales it seems as if a tight economy and tight labor market are coming to bear, not to the benefit of the stocks. >> maybe to the benefit of the drivers though and maybe ultimately to the benefit of the economy as those drivers then have cash to respend in all the things they want to buy in their lives. something to watch there. next, a pair of stock down grades, deutsche bank dropping dollar tree from buy to hold

saying surging costs in weiages and freight. and darden downgraded saying rising food costs will likely limit earnings through next yearment dollar tree is struggling to remain positive today while darden is down more than 4%. courtney, is this a case where dollar tree will have to rebrand itself as ten dollar tree in this inflationary world? >> you have other dollar store plays. dollar general where not everything is a general. they have a little more room, to the analysts' point, than dollar tree that's their competitive positioning, everything is a dollar, which certainly makes it harder when you have costs going up on the flip side, if people are really looking for a bargain, perhaps you have more demand that helps at least a little bit offset some of that. wages that dollar tree pays is about $11 to $12 an hour, of course depending on the local

laws and the municipalsities in which they operate the company points out, look, we figured this out for 35 years. we're going to be okay i do think it would be one to watch and margins would have to be squeezed from what we're hearing about how much it's costing these companies to pay for the containers to bring freight from overseas right now. >> really a tight economy. gina, if you're an investor, same question to you, how do you play it? what do you buy? >> i think right now the inflationary story is one that seems to be creeping now rather than surging that creeping inflation is happening in a lot of different ways, one through shortages. i think dollar tree could address their issues to change their inventory to cheaper inventory. they can make it work absolutely will it be attractive to the end consumer maybe not as much. we'll get less for the same amount of money. fourth topic, perfect for

vacation season. a federal judge ruling to temporarily halt a florida law prohibiting visitors, requiring proof of vaccination the judge granted a preliminary injunction allowing norwegian to request that information from travelers while the case heads to trial norwegian says it wants all guests and crew on its voyages to be fully vaccinated shares down about 2% today mike, before i ask you if you'd take a cruise without everybody being vaccinated, typically republicans and conservatives would argue private enterprise should be allowed to do what it wants within basic parameters. let them organize their business however they want. here you have the state of florida saying we're going to put some rules around what you can and can't do which would be sort of the liberal argument how does wall street see that playing out in all these businesses throughout the

economy that are all going to be struggling with the same exact question >> it's a complete inversion, as you suggest, eamon what is amazing is norwegian and other companies that are going to try to impose these requirements are strictly doing it out of self-interest. they're not wanting to restrict the pool of people that use their service. they feel it's a survival issue. wall street is going to say, these companies need to be viable very soon we've floated them for about a year this is a way they see clear to do it. maybe it's an interim phase. we can all hope that's the case. right now those companies are back on their heels. >> mike, would you take a cruise if everybody was not vaccinated? >> i have taken cruises, let me establish that, as a family type of a vacation. >> maybe before the virus

started spreading throughout the world. gina, last question to you on this topic, how do you see this playing out in the economy going forward? this is an issue that all these companies in every sector are going to have to deal with >> i think the weakness you're seeing today is noise. if you think about it, this is absolutely a case of survival. the headline risk is too risky for this company once they start booking cruise lines -- here is what i believe. i believe there are more than enough vaccinated individuals who want to take cruises the pent-up demand is very much there, that there's going to be no problem creating the revenue stream once you create the revenue streams, this is going to be a forgotten issue. >> thanks so much, courtney reagan mike santoli and gina sanchez. coming up, a look at how to make money in the housing market without selling your house that's a trick big moves for casino stocks today. we have a rundown of all the

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welcome back bank of america placing its bets on casino stocks, upgrading caesar's to buy from neutral you cee cee sars up. expecting the company's digital market share to rise b of a downgrading wynn resorts because of the heavy reliance on ma macau. you can read more on cnbc.com/pro draftkings buying golden nugget online gaming for $1.5 billion this gives them access to golden nugget's customers tillman fertitta and jason

robins of draftkings. donor advising funds have been a good way to give money to charities we'll speak to former hedge fund manager who is blowing the whistle. you don't want to miss that. this may look like a regular movie night.

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welcome back to "the exchange." there's a growing debate over some of the instruments involved in charitable giving, specifically donor-advised funds. new proposed legislation designed to change these types of funds is now setting up a big showdown in philanthropy robert franks joins us now. >> donor-advised funds have quadrupled over the past decade to over $140 billion they now account for about one of every $8.00 that americans give to charity every year philanthropist john arnold says they've become tax-free warehouses of cash largely for the wealthy. when you give to a fund, you get an immediate tax deduction there's no deadline to actually distribute the grant, so the money grows tax-free it generates a lot of fees for the management companies and it may not go to charity for decades or even generations.

a new bill in the senate would impose new requirements on donor-advised funds and change the way they operate joining us now is the philanthropist that is out to change all this, john arnold thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. great to be in new york, a wonderful city. >> right above times square. these funds have helped mayors khan give more to charity. fi dealt says last year they give $9 billion in grants. schwab was up 35%. they have helped more americans give more. what is the problem? >> i'm part of a coalition trying to ensure that the philanthropic donations that are seeing a federal tax benefit make it to the community in a timely manner. laura and i have a foundation as well as a donor advised fund what we're trying to do is think about how to make sure that the tax benefit aligns with, in a

timely manner, that that money gets to the community. in a private foundation you have at least nominally applied for spend rate there are loopholes in that. in a donor-advised fund, there's no requirement to ever give this money. the data bears this out. last year, in 2020, when the call on resources was perhaps its gatest ever, we saw 35% of accounts didn't make a single dollar of distribution. in the past four years, 10% of accounts haven't made a distribution so while most of the holders and sponsors are behaving in a way that is against the intent of the law, there's too many dormant accounts >> a lot of wealthy people say, look, don't mess with philanthropy, don't regulate philanthropy it already works well in america. they say this is essentially a solution in search of a problem

because donor-advised funds give out 20% a year and they say they have a rule if your fund doesn't give money for two years, it automatically takes 5% way can't they just self-regulate this does washington have to get involved >> there are many sponsors who are acting in a good manner. they're requiring that those funds be active and active in a material way and fidelity is one of those when you talk to some of the largest commercial sponsors of dafs, weagree. what we're proposing isn't something radical. they're saying it's logical. but there are some daf sponsor who have virtually no requirement on activity. and that money can sit there in a wealth warehousing vehicle forever. it's received the tax benefit on day one, but that money never has to go to the community that 20% number that you hear

the industry throw around is kind of not legitimate for a couple ways. >> it just sounds strange. i don't know how dafs came about. the idea that you can get a giant tax benefits for money that sits there and grows but doesn't get to the people who need it, it does sound like it needs a fix. >> right and it's -- part of the tension in the system is these management fees. so community foundations are a large sponsor of dafs. and the community foundations generally have a mission that says something like, maximum the general welfare of our community. and so we've had many community foundations say, this proposal is right along those lines moving money from investment accounts into the community is our mission. we've had others that have looked at it -- i think get seduced by the management fees from aum, right, and there's that tension because the more money that sits in the investment account, more

management fees -- >> they have an incentive to want it to sit there and grow. >> but their main mission is, how do you benefit your community? that's where the tension is in the industry right now. >> john, thanks for being here really appreciate it you talk about getting this money out there in a timely manner and it seems like the essence of what you're talking about is pulling money now to these charities from these out years, decades from now, potentially. do you have an estimate of how much money that we're talking about coming from the out years into next year, for example, if you get the reform that you're talking about? >> so we have two proposals. one is that if you get the tax benefit up front, you get that tax benefit this year, you have 15 years in order to distribute the money. so put a dollar in today, you have until 2036 to distribute the money. the second option at the donor discretion, you can have a daf account that has a much longer time limit, but you don't get

that income tax deduction until the money goes to the community. we don't have -- i don't know offhand how much money that's going to pull forward. but it's going to be significant. and the charities that we talked to are very interested in this proposal to try to bring that money forward rather than sitting in investment accounts. >> john, right now, we're in this incredible debate about how to tax wealth verses work and the wealthy get a tax rate that is much lower on their total wealth than the everyday american do you think things like capital gains, step up in basis should be changed and how do you think they should be changed >> i think there's this great dicho dichotomy between how labor is taxed and wealthy is taxed the tax on capital, especially because it can sit unrealized and compounding until death and then you get the step-up might never be taxed that seems wrong to me that you

have these two sources of wealth taxed so differently and so i think we need to look at the step-up, that question of when you die, should that -- should you have that free step-up in basis and i think we need to have a conversation about what happens for the very long-term unrealized capital gains it gets complicated about what you would do with it there have been some academics that have proposed things. we funded some of that work. but it's a conversation that we need to start happening. >> if that would change, it would hurt someone like yourself, right? >> it would, ironically, yes >> back to you. >> thanks so much. robert frank there important conversation coming up, do you have housing fomo we'll tell you how you can make sl urouutavg ng witho hin toelyo hse that's next.

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