tv Fast Money CNBC August 25, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
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slaging. what's down within the williams sonoma report. rising 51% even erik nordstrom says he doesn't see it's as good as it gets that's going to be a debate especially as these earnings roll in. that's going to do it for us here on "closing bell. have a great evening, everyone "fast money" begins right now. >> live from the nasdaq market site overlooking new york's times square i'm melissa lee. tonight's lineup -- tonight on fast, we are tracking the after hours action samoves of salesforce the call is just kicking off plus, we're watching the white house. president biden wrapping up a meeting right now with the nation's top ceos about cybersecurity. and later, tim is taking the -- his best idea. why he thinks this tech stock is
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a total home run investment. we start out tonight with a big break for the banks. financials leading the s&p 500 on a record day for the index. bank of america, goldman sachs, morgan stanley all posting games. this comes as the benchmark ten-year treasury yield continues to climb higher. it is now at 1.34% guy, what did you make of this big move >> well, we had a few people on over the last couple of weeks, i know tim has been loving this. jeff mills, when i hear from him as well. banks are going higher dan pointed this out a couple of weeks ago. the banks stopped going lower. that was your tell they've been off to the races ever since to me, citi is the most compelling trade here. i think it trades north of tangible focus about 78 bucks we've been as a show, collectively over black stone. they made another acquisition. that stock can continue to go higher and if you think as i do that rates will continue to go
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up, the insurers look really interesting. specifically crew and met life >> we want to go to the white house. we told you about the cyber summit that president biden is holding. jamie dimon is leaving now basically we're witnessing the ceos at the summit leaving the white house right now. we are watching for them and of course we've got our crew standing at the ready to try and get comments from them on what exactly transpired again, this was a cybersecurity summit held by the white house jamie dimon has just left the building along with many others. if we have any headlines, we'll bring them to you. let's continue trading the banks
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here tim, what did you make of this move >> well, again, you know, talking about jpmorgan, that or bank of america i think have the best charts in there you're within 5% of all-time highs. yet again, coming out of second quarter numbers. the banks traded down the first three or four days as they do. >> sorry, we want to go back the ceo of microsoft, i believe. we're going to listen in. i feel like it's a zoom call like we decide to go there then they hop in a car and they drive away we'll continue looking for a lot of the other ceos that are going to come out of this summit
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tim, i think i interrupted you apologies. >> that is okay, mel we're a live news show in financial markets. this happens if you think about banks, what happened to them, they traded down because of they were overly punished net interest income and net interest margins that were down. we're talk about the sensitivity to the ten-year and why the banks are moving another thing that's almost ironic is they started to release credit reserves. they were almost punished for this increase in earnings when on the way down when they had to apply these loss provisions, they were punished as well this makes no sense to me. i recognize you can't count on those earnings and some beat based upon that. the story for banks over the last year,maybe even four years, has been about capital markets, dynamics, return of capital to shareholders, buyback, dividends and that's a story that's quietly very solid here, too. to me, the valuations for these
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companies are very interesting they're never, they haven't been this strong on balance sheet in a long time and the yield curve maybe in their favor for the short-term, but in the long-term, i think you have a solid trade here i don't think you need to trade in and out of these names. i've had a core position of jpmorgan, citibank and maybe best of breed is morgan stanley, who's smoothed out their earnings profile with where they've taken their business >> when tim said the story of the banks for the past year has been, if you had gone to me and said what do you think tim was going to say, i, melissa, would have said rates because the move today caught a lot of people's attention. carter had a note out today about the ten-year bond yields breaching the upper band of the well defined down trend channel that's been in effect since april. he said we suspect 1.65 is in
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the cards which would be a good thing for the financials >> it would. i read that same note and i did find it interesting. he also mentioned the mirror chart on the ten-year as well. so if it completes that short-term mirror, it would get to 145 pretty quickly. i would have expected the move in banks today have been bigger than it was, but i view it as positive and to underscore guy's point, banks have actually been the fourth best performing sector since the peak in rate. so unusual i think it underscores the idea that there's some value there and i talk a lot about positioning, especially when it gets extreme we saw extreme positioning in april. everyone crowded into that reopening trade. the cyclicals, the banks everyone was betting on hirgher rates. go down the list you see three-month flows now in the fifth percentile
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everyone's abandoned that trade. they've hunkered down into this covid scare. you're seeing momentum in financials if you look at the 20-day high list, can be early, but it's starting to expand a lot you can't to ride this trade >> is this just part of a broader rotation, guy, in your view for the folks saying go into oil stocks at this point after the d drubbing they have seen, is it time to go into financials for the same reasons >> i think, i believe you can absolutely still be or get into financials if you haven't been into them. i think the oil trade, tim, would probably agree i think it's a trade at this point. i think it bottomed out probably three or four trading days ago now the equities seem to be leading the commodity. but the banks are a real story the story in the banks are not going away anytime soon in my opinion. i think you have six to nine months months of tail winds they will get expensive, but
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they're not there yet. there are some banks that seem impervious to any kind of yields i know dan will at me i'm sure, but they seem to go everything right and oh, by the way now they're getting into markets they haven't before. banks are still a trade here, mel, for sure. >> go, guy okay all right. we don't hear dan. he's still in purgatory. i'm dying to know what he's saying if i could read lips, guy, i would convey the message i don't know if it's anything positive we saw some pretty big moves, guy was mentioning black stone not in the financials like the morgan stanley and citi, but also in credit cards like in american express, which was highly levered to that reopening and specific business travel and specifically travel. >> yeah. i mean, i like axp
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i would rather be in the banks here because i feel like they've traded sideways longer they've undergone a little more pain you've only started to see american express roll over recently nonetheless, you've seen a little pullback. this sort of peaking delta narrative is going to continue to develop and i think that could develop into a tail wind for consumer confidence and investor confidence in moving back into cyclicality. you think about axp, levered to business travel, people going to restaurants. just the economy reopening up again. i think you could have a tail wind in names like that as well. >> let's get back to the white house here we've been watching the nation's top ceos leaving the white house. that summit has wrapped up eamon javers with the latest what happened? >> yeah, you've been seeing all the big guys there leaving all at the same time we're told by our active producer own the scene, who you just saw getting some of her steps in for the day there, chasing the ceos, that tim cook has not left
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we're going to see if we can hear from him when he comes out of the meeting to see what he says about this. but clearly, some of those ceos not too anxious to talk to the press on the way out the door. what we are seeing now is some citations in the media, particularly reuters, of some of the commitments now from some of these companies. reuters is reporting that microsoft is saying it's going to invest $20 billion over the course of five years, a four fold increase from its current rate, to speed up cybersecurity rates. we're also going to see microsoft making available $150 million in technical services to help federal, state, and local governments to help keep their security systems up to date. so microsoft out with some news per reuters at this hour talking about what it's going to go on cybersecurity. i think you can expect over the course of this hour to see a bunch of other companies come out with statements of their own. so-called deliverables of this
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meeting. we'll see if it makes a difference hackers have been really successful over the past year. the cybersecurity problem in this country doesn't seem like it's going away anytime soon white house meeting or no white house meeting. the problem you've got right now is that corporate america has pumped so much money into financial resources toward these hackers in the form of ransom payments that the hackers are now using that money to finance even more sophisticated technology you've now got hacking groups i'm told that have nation state level technology and capabilities and sometimes veterans of nation state level intelligence agencies working for them so that creates a very tricky picture. these ceos who were at the white house today are up against a very significant challenge here. >> i think every penny spent on cyber is a good thing. granting another attack at the same time, this pledge by microsoft is maybe not surprising considering the number of hacks it's been involved in in just the past few months >> sure. and one of the questions when
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you talk about a white house meeting like this and the companies announce these deliverables, this is a standard ritual we see between corporate america and the white house. the question you always have is how much of this is new stuff that companies are doing as a result of this white house meeting and how much is the company sort of packaging things they were already working on as a deliverable from a meeting that's sometimes an unknowable thing, but you know, people who have been inside corporate lobbying offices in washington will tell you it's not unheard of for a company to package things it was already working on and say this is a new deliverable for the president today. watch for those over the coming 45 minutes to an hour because i think we're going to get some more announcements >> thank you eamon javers about the cybersecurity summit held at the white house. tim, we've been talking about cyber stocks for a while now past couple of days, in fact, because of the runs they've been having do you think this moves the needle in terms of corporate america pledging all sorts of dollars to beefing up efforts?
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>> you're highlighting the fact some of these initiatives have already been announced, clearly, i'm guessing what went on today is a cya versus via your cto one of the problems with a lot of these companies is there are multiple c suite functions that aren't really communicating as it relates to hacking, but through the cto in terms of cybersecurity. my guess is there's a lot of synthesis that needs to go on. much of this is organizational approach as it is bringing on technology but having said that, one of the points we've made around the strength of these stocks is pricing power. in addition to order book and recurring revenue streams and subscription services and the things that are multiple enhancers for so many other parts of the software space, the security space, but as we talk about other tech companies so that's why this is such a sexy place to be investing and that's why again, i think
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corporate america has only just begun. i think a lot of that is about reassessing internal controls and getting these different groups and silos to speak to each other the cto has just been a place on the org chart. not a synthesized process. >> dan nathan has his mike powers back. dan? >> hi. well here's the deal apple and microsoft, two of the largest companies on the planet, right, nearly $5 trillion in market cap they have over $300 billion in cash on their collective balance sheets they can fix these problems if they want to fix them. they want to be serious about it, they run a lot of ads. they spend a lot of money madison avenue and social channels talking about their commitment to these issues, but if they want to fix them, they can fix them >> coming up, in salesforce, we're listening in plus, cathie wood betting big on draft king should you go all in on this
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trade? and later, a million dollar bet against amc. what could send the esap bananas. the details when "fast money" returns. it's also a zero waste event, which means everything thrown away by the hundreds of thousands of people at the tournament is repurposed. in 2020, wm diverted 988 tons of material and kept 421 metric tons of greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere. see how zero waste is one of the many ways wm is always working for a sustainable tomorrow at wm.com/stories.
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welcome back we've got an earnings alerton salesforce the call kicked off at the top of the hour. let's get to julia with details. >> that's right. shares up about 2% mark benoit saying the company has never seen better execution of momentum. quarterly revenue growing 23%. that's faster than analysts expected and guidance for tom and bottom results in the first quarter and full year also surpassing projections he said in the release, quote, our customer 360 platform is now fueled by a herd of unicorns per perfectly designed for this all digital world -- are all billion dollar plus products delivering customer success like no other company. now with particular attention to slack, that deal closed just last month the company's president and cfo saying that they are excited to
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build on slack's momentum. the conference call, which did kick off about to minutes ago, opening up by saying they're talking about innovation they're seeing with slack and about incredible results from their success from anywhere approach to work and their vision for the company. now there was a technical issue on the call. it seems like mark was lost, but the call is back up and running though he is not speaking right now. melissa? >> julia, thank you. be sure to catch cramer's exclusive interview with the salesforce ceo on "mad money." >> i love that herd of unicorns perfectly equipped they're all billion dollar plus revenue companies. when i look at the out year, i look at fiscal 2023, i suspect that current consensus at 19% year-over-year sales growth is probably low right here so if you saw a reacceleration, i
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think this year it's expected to be 22% somewhere above where we are this year. at seven, eight times sale next year, this is probably a cheap stock. i know that sounds kind of crazy, but you put all those businesses together and you look at the accelerations we've seen over the last year and a half to two years and where crm plays, i think this thing works pretty well one of the reasons why we highlighted it last week last night, the whole panel was like, this thing's going to work from here on out this slack acquisition should be a nice catalyst here i like it here >> yeah, let's get more reaction jared, great to have you with us it looks like at least first blush, a pretty good quarter and you were looking for margins there was upside there what did you make of this whole thing? >> i think dan hit all right points when they're looking for better top line momentum as well as better operating margin
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performance and that's what we got. 6.34 billion in revenue. way ahead of the street at 6.22 billion remarkably something, crpo, that's a good real time indicator of the health of the business that was up 23% of the year on year ahead of guidance up 20% year on year and they had a tough comp from the year ago quarter as well. so that was quite strong i think the absolute star of the show here was operating margins at 20.4%, which 200 basis points ahead of the street. and in line with what dan was just talking about, you look at year-to-date the stock's up 17%, but on a relative basis, you look at that against the broader software basis, it's sitting on one-year lows because you had concerns on slack integration and operating margin expansion or lack there of the fact you were able to get the operating expansion and the new cfo came in and delivered
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full year raise for the next fiscal year. the stock screams cheap relative to its peers >> hey, jared, that rocket ship of a number they reported a year ago that set the performance bar very high, but you talked also about the slack integration and where ultimately this leaves crm versus taking on microsoft can you talk about that? because again, we led the show talking about not only software, but cyber and where some of bigger guys are positioned to spend here talk about salesforce versus microsoft. >> it's such an important point where you think about where he's driving the fucture of this company and collaboration as a whole. work from home is not going anywhere soon. you've soon multiple companies in silicon valley working from their home office on a permanent basis going forward. i think the ability to have
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collaboration is part of his toolkit is so critical when you mentioned microsoft as competitor, part of the competition practice is based on microsoft teams users. and now that he's got this underneath the umbrella combined with pathwell, yield softs, all of the original salesforce engines, it really gives him the go to market that's able to go ahead and take on microsoft. i think when all is said and done, it's going to turn out to be a pretty smart acquisition. you think about the integration capabilities he's able to deliver especially in the context of work from anywhere and those trends don't seem to be abating >> this is the first quarter inclusive of slack and you went through the laundry list of the notable acquisition salesforce has made in its recent history i'm wondering how much more leverage there is to be had from these acquisitions that have not been extracted yet >> i think you've seen
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tremendous momentum in their organization you know, when you start looking t plus 1, t plus 2 quarters after you plug the entire salesforce in and reframe it on the cross and upselling motions across the board and slack is really going to go ahead and provide that opportunity when you can about the ability for them to penetrate that total adjustable market so i think they've made tremendous strides with yield statement of fact. with tableau those are probably in the lead with respect to those integrations for sure and i think all hands on deck now with respect to slack and how crm can take on microsoft on the day when you have the ability to integrate that collaboration tool as part of the salesforce suite. so i still see plenty of runway to go with respect to slack. we're still very much in the early days >> great to see you. thank you.
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guy, your top pick in software >> well, i mean i know you're not an oracle fan there, mel, but i still think very quietly they're sort of catching up to the rest of the world and it's manifesting itself in the stock price. in terms of salesforce kudos to dan, number one i think the stock trades up to 285, which was the high this time last year and i think you take profits there you get it above 291, we'll have another conversation you can wrap your arms around this valuation giving the growth and i think the stock tends to trend higher >> by the way, i'm agnostic whe it comes to any individual shares >> can i ask you a quick question, by the way, because that's what we do on this show doesn't, doesn't, isn't a unicorn, isn't the scarcity factor of a unicorn what makes it special so therefore a herd of unicorn stops being special. or does my mind not work correctly? just throwing it out there to the "fast money" audience.
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>> maybe jim will point that out to mark when he speaks to him at the top of the hour. but jeff, quickly to bring it back to actual stocks and how people feel about them, your top pick in software >> well, look, i'm going to go with crm here. it's a name that i've been following for some time and i think in this brave new world we're in, what that they do becomes increasingly useful. i know we keep talking about the slack acquisition, but it's going to be incredible important. it's not just communicating within a company, but between companies and disrupting e-mail and that can be very, very powerful i've seen that right now that they're only servicing 20% of the worldwide market estimates of 175 billion by 2025 that's a big market so they still have room to grow even if you consider the current valuation stretched. >> we're just getting started here on "fast money. here's what's coming up next >> cathie wood rolling the dice
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holdings tesla, down 21%. roku down 28%. coinbase down. unity down from its recent highs. were any of these beaten down names worth a second look or maybe it's just not the right environment for an etf like cathie wood's? dan, what do you think >> well, it's the right environment because we're seeing all sort of flows into the really innovative tech we're seeing a lot of it in the private markets, too, and i think her time horizon from what i can understand from recent interviews and she's been on the show, it's not a "fast money" time horizon i think that's the really difficult part about it and when you think about what her vision is for a company like tesla, you know, even around 600, $700, she's talking thousands of dollars of price targets so you have to deal with that volatility i guess the thing i struggle with is she's probably got the wrong vehicle. every morning i wake up and see headlines in the press, cathie
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woods sold a million shares of this or that or whatever that's just because of her rebalancing. i suspect she should be really running a hedge fund take the two and 20 and the money that's really with you for a long time time horizon and not have to deal with this mark to market on a day-to-day basis >> jeff. >> yeah, well to go back to your question about is this the time, i think dan hit the nail on the head in terms of time horizon, but if we're thinking about shorter term and we think rates are going higher, we're talking about banks, probably not great for some of these longer dated future cash flows. that's where you're going to see the growth we have to remember where these stocks came from their performance last year. that time horizon. so when i think about a stock like draftkings, i know i'm becoming a broken record there, i think we're in the early innings of all this. in terms of technology, the way sports is going to be consumed through that betting lens. the legalization it's not going to happen today,
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tomorrow, next quarter, maybe not even next year, but over time, these are things that are going to play out. we're seeing with draftkings, with penn. it's this land grab to try to buy companies. get market share because they know the growth is going to be there. i think a stock like draftkings is going to continue to be a big player in that space we might be getting to a point where we can break above 60 and stay there so these are long-term plays no, do i think right now is a great time for these companies no but if you have the right time horizon, there's a lot of growth in these names >> it's an interesting point in not being a "fast money" sort of investment vehicle this sort of came of age became a household word, cathie wood gained rock star status because of the quick rise in a lot of these stocks thanks to the reddit crowd which saw this as fast money we're talking about the run for tesla through its bitcoin acquisition, guy these were all names we were
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talking about because they had incredible runs alongside ark invest >> which if you asked her, i'm sure it will probably upset her. to dan's point, she's not in it for the next 30 minutes. my sense is that she's in most of these for the next five to ten years. we've had conversations about tesla and some of the points dan made about her rebalancing i'm sure to a certain extent, those moves mortified her. with that said, you have a fascinating sort of push me pull you right now with her on one side and michael burry, brilliant investor, making bets against the ark etf. i am with jeff mills on this one. i think draft kkings, if you hae a horizon of more than the next six minutes, i think draftkings is really interesting at these levels >> tim, a slate of the top holdings in ark invest have significant percentages off their 52-week highs. any of them you would scoop up
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>> one that's interesting to me that i've owned in much bigger size, still hold it and actually like the chart is square you've actually consolidated 220 to 265, but the story around the cash app is extraordinary. we have talked about the different elements of where basically jack dorsey has tied people on to this platform and this is a platform that is executing and giving access and leapfrogging technology and moving around the world and doing it so there's loyalty on the consumer side. enormous loyalty on the business side and this is a fintech play that we think is showing the way of many, the money center banks that may need to follow. i like square here and i think longer term story there is again they are going to be involved in secular trends and have proven they may be early and they're usually right. >> coming up, we're all over the afterhours action. shares of williams sonoma. that stock is sharply higher we're starting to get headlines from the call. but first, tim is taking the mound for you.
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up 33% this year and just broke out above a major resistance level. it's also tim's best idea. he's stepping up to the mound to deliver a fast pitch take it away >> thanks, mel so again, a proud franchise like some of its other megacap tech companies, cisco i think is moving in the direction of transformation of their business as we've talked about microsoft and others this is a recurring revenue software story higher multiple story and it's happening across some of their software segments. these recurring obligations and payment obligations are about 30 billion of their overall sales process and another 53% of those will be recurring purchases over the next 12 months if we just listen to their earnings, we heard a little margin pressure, but some is transitory supply disruption. meanwhile, the sense we got is that their core business around enterprise is strong it's getting stronger and off of
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an easy comp of a year ago, you're up about 30% on spending. i think it's going to continue finally with this company, what we talked about in this transformation and a move towards software, what's the multiple you put on cisco? it's not yesterday's multiple. it's not a 16, 17 times. at 17 times what they're going earn in 2022 to '23 if you take a hybrid multiple, eps, it's somewhere around a $62 stock you put a $20 stock on it because you know, at least one-third of that could be software revenue where you should be putting a 25 to 30 ti ti times multiple on it the question is, as always, and i love this with these big megacap names. whether it's been a disney, gm or walmart, this is a case of a company that should be rerating out of its former base and we've seen them do it. we've seen the security in software it's been a theme all week and
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it's been a name we've mentioned along with cisco finally that chart on a two-year, you see a breakout you see a company that in the last month, reaffirmation is taking this thing higher and breaking out to near at-time highs above 59 >> jeff has a question >> yes, sir. >> so my question was, yes my question was going to be on the multiple that you know, the stock kind of struggled at 17 times forward in the past you hit on that pretty clearly we'll move on. thinking about a little bit in terms of positioning, technology al along with rising rates, do you feel a stock like this is better position where we believe the ten-year is rising versus the tech sector more broadly, some of the longer duration names >> i think cisco fits nicely, frankly, in the middle of that i think the cyclical exposure to enterprise is what should have cisco moving here.
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we have exposure to software and services and current revenue streams. this should be trading defensively along with higher multiple tech. i think it's a bit of a stock for all seasons and one of the reasons why it's breaking out here we've had affirmation of the new business lines we see that the legacy business is quite strong and the cyclicality should help cisco. >> it is time to vote. are you buying tim's pitch on cisco? guy, what do you say >> let me get my smart board can you read this for the audience >> itsays jimmy smitts >> he played the cisco kid in 1994 tim has surpassed that jimmy is a big fan i thought when they reported on the 18th that stock put in a huge double top. traded in the mid 40s. i was wrong.
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who am i to cast dispersions with tim's power pitch well done, ambassador. >> your mind works in mysterious ways dan? >> we've heard about the breath in the nasdaq that's been weakening. i think this breakout and to tim's point makes a lot of sense. i'm a buyer here might this thing come in a little bit, consolidate a little bit. if you get a raging nasdaq in q3, this thing's going to participate and you'll probably see it near 70 >> jeff, what's your vote? >> yeah, look, i agree with everyone else. i think we're heading into a better it spending environment the breakout's clear i did want to trade it so i'm sticking with that >> all right clean sweep here, but it is now your turn. you at home. your turn to vote. are you buying tim's fast pitch on cisco vote in our twitter poll coming up, williams sonoma on the move after reporting
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this time on williams sonoma the stock is up almost 12% christina. >> sales increasing over 30% in this quarter, but the company could face head winds into the next quarter on the call that's happening now, the company is still dealing with supply chain issues their inventory levels are not, quote, at the levels we'd expect at this time that i shifted furniture to vietnam and indonesia in 2015 due to teariffs and the industr why there's shortages coming out of asia and a recent port closure in china so it's making it harder for them to predict when supply chain issues will be resolved the ceo said they're raising their full year revenue to the low 20s and are increasing their dividend by 20% and the home goods retailer did see double digit growth across several brands for example, even just west elm
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is up 51% which shows americans are still upgrading their homes, hybrid offices and maybe, just maybe, haven't given up making that sour dough bread, which i know guy does in his spare time. >> i knowtim enjoys a loaf of sour dough just like anybody else does. >> does he make it though? that's the big question. >> he might have his own yeast starter. thanks i'll go to you, tim. all these supply chain issues, we know the cost of containers have gone up like 200% year on year vietnam in particular has a very difficult problem because they have a very low vaccination rate in that country. it's in the single digit percentages i believe, so it's a move their manufacturing there is a little problematic, but all that does not matter at this point for this digital first company. >> margins and comps were certainly something we wanted to hear and so there continues to
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be some pressure on sour dough bread, who doesn't love it. i'm not cooking it in the kind of oven we've often talked about that williams sonoma's famous for, but we'll leave that for another show the key to this stock is the valuation that is not more in its less expensive, cheaper than it was precovid with the trends we have that are not falling off the table anytime soon so i think you get long this stock. i think you buy any weakness on the back of what i think are not structural issues. i think they are dynamics that are fleeting maybe it's going to take longer, but ultimately these supply chain issues will be solved. >> i dividend increase of 20%. that is confidence this is not just a pandemic phenomenon the growth >> yeah, it sure is. we own the stock we have for some time. i'm glad we do what i'm not so happy about is we did trim it a bit right around these levels where it closed today and obviously you're seeing the move to the upside in the after hours.
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i think that was prudent portfolio management and that's fine looking out over a year, two years, you saw this covid bump in revenue this step up function in margins. ultimately promotions are going to come back revenue growth is going to revert back to trend i think margins are going to revert back to trend i still think it's a good long-term hold and we're still going to continue to have a position there we like their digital first model, as you said, but i think for the moment, a lot of this good news might be priced in >> guy, you have a cheshire cat grin on your face, so go >> i've been known to bake a loaf of sour dough bread from time to time, number one number two, oddly enough, williams sonoma comps were lower so maybe people were not as enthralled by a dutch oven as they were a few months ago number three, the inventory is concerning 12% against 30% sales growth however, what trumps it all is
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the fact that a $1.2 billion buyback, whatever they announced, is significant when you're talking about a company with a market cap of 11, $12 billion. you've said it for a while you stay with this name. tim is right probably cheaper now than it was before i think wsm above 195 and you're talking about a stock that could easily get to $250 >> coming up, roll the credits amc having a blockbuster week. but options traders are betting big that this one is about to flop we've got the trade, next. and there's still time to weigh in on tim's fast pitch on cisco. go vote in our twitter poll. "fast money's" back in two >> miss a moment of fast follow the "fast money" podcast.
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welcome back shares of amc falling into the red after the close after yesterday's eye popping 20% gain one option trader is betting a million dollars that today's move means it's about to go bust tony, what did you see >> so, amc on the back of yesterday's 20% move, we saw one very large bet against that.
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amc traded actively. about 1.4 million contracts, which is just shy of two times the average daily volume the thing that stood out was 1,000 contracts of the october 45 puts were purchased for $12.24 what's interesting about that trade is this is an at the money put. to put into context, $12.24 on a $45 stock is 27% of the stock's value. that's a lot to pay in extrinsic value that's awl going to decay if they don't accelerate to the downside so this is betting a million dollars that amc is going to give back all of yesterday's gains and more before the october expiration >> the size of this trade, tony, does this indicate to you, i know it's impossible to know that this is not a retail trader >> i certainly think a million dollars in premium certainly would say that this is not a retail trader. yes. because that would be all that risk if that trade doesn't work
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out. >> all right tony, thank you. i asked that obviously because retail traders have been very active in the options market, but they tend to be in smaller size in lower volumes. dan, how would you interpret this action? just curious >> i'm just looking at it. looks like it's a roll looks like they rolled out of the september 45s into the octobers i still look at the call volume versus the put volume. the top ten actions were all calls and they were two and a half times that of puts today. so that was clearly an institution rolling. give themselves a little more time here. but it looks like retail is still all over the calls, mel. >> yeah. and judging by twitter activity, they still are standing by this one, which may be surprising, jeff mills a lot of people threw a lot of water all over this move in saying these retail guys, they don't know what they're doing. dumb money
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whatever you want to call them, they are still there in the stock. >> they are. and i continue to be surprised that the price stays where it does and everybody knows what i'm about to say, but given all of the activity and how many retail traders are in the stock, it probably bears repeating. whether you're talking about game stop, amc, these are stocks that can go up 50%, down 50% it's very clear and i think just knowing the game you're playing is really important and becabe careful. that's awful >> for more options action, tune into the full show on friday just a few more minutes left in our vote for twitter poll. are you buying tim's fast pitch onis cco systems res results and your final trades are next ♪ ♪ ♪
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embrace the volatility >> dan >> intel for a bounce. >> guy >> warm sour dough butter. nothing better fire eye, melissa lee. >> i forgot about the sour dough conversation thanks for watchin my mission is simple to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere. and i promise to help you find it "mad money" starts now. hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money," other people are here to make friends. i'm just here to make you money. my job is not just to entertain, teach, call me 1-800-743-cnbc or tweet me
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