so across the board some strength in the banks. and not to be homer, but our own parent company comcast shares are up too we got that going for us that's going to do it for us on "squawk on the street. "techcheck" starts now good monday morning. welcome to "techcheck. i'm carl keenquintanilla with jn fortt and julia boorstin goldman is out with the best internet ideas we'll break down the bull and bear calls later this hour and, jon is in seattle at amazon headquarters ahead of his major exclusive with amazon ceo andy

jassy tomorrow julia? >> well, we'll start with epic games and apple. we told you on friday, a california judge ruled in favor of apple and every charge except one. saying that apple wasn't unfairly monopolizing the app space with in app purchasing systems. but at the same time, ordering the company to remove its anti-steering rules that banned developers from telling users about alternatives to apple's in app payment systems. epic games has already filed an appeal they were ordered to pay damages to apple for violating their developer agreement. while apple called the judgment a, quote, resounding victory so, jon, no word yet from apple if they plan to appeal any part of this. but i do think now that the attention is going to shift to capitol hill, we got some bipartisan comments on friday, you know, from a lot of commentary this is more evidence that there needs to be legislation here to address the antitrust issues, don't you

think, jon >> well, maybe but, julia, i can't help but think, okay, in june we had wwdc, that's like the first of the most important apple events where they lay out their software vision. tomorrow we're going to get, we expect new iphone and apple watch, the hardware vision apple's strength is in the ecosystem in the vertical integration. tieing the hardware, software, services together. and once they do that, they have so many different options for how they can monetize. so whatever rules i think congress might come up with and then they got to socialize with their constituents, midterms are coming up and people kind of love apple and frankly they love a lot of these big technology companies, even though they don't love everything they do. so as these companies can show themselves useful, and kind of keep that loyalty of the consumer, that might translate into head winds for the people who want to stop them from exercising their power

>> it is interesting, we talked to roger mcnamee last hour and his general framework is that, you know, tech companies are criticized for a number of things, but in apple's case, it is not about necessarily misinformation or threats to democracy or vaccine information. it is more about points on the app store and in his view that's a pretty good spot to sit in if you're willing to concede a little bit of that in exchange for stronger regulatory structure that doesn't include them -- >> yeah. apple's focus on privacy is giving it this competitive moat and insulating it from a lot of the issues the other tech giants have faced and, jon, i think that privacy is going to be first and foremost an issue that is used in apple's defense one reason why they don't want to be opening the floodgates to all sorts of stores on their platforms. >> well, sure.

i mean, we see all of these attacks that are happening out there, so many of them are pc-based there are a lot more smartphones out there in the world with a lot of personal information on them and so apple can say, hey, look, do you want these solar winds type things happening on your -- there is a reason why that's not happening you can expect that will be the argument for more on that, let's bring in eli patel, editor in chief of the verge and cnbc contributor you were with us on friday at the moment as this broke and you had the weekend to digest this and write a few things on the verge. you've been focused on implementation what does this mean practically for how apps have to work within apple's ecosystem. i don't know do they have to put a button in there you pick the payment system it seems like apple has a viable argument to say if people want to refund and they come to us but we're not the payment provider, in order to provide a unified experience in the store,

we have to be able to provide some sort of governance and maybe pay us for it. >> yeah, i think there is a lot of challenges in how implement payments absent a clear rule that says apple gets to own everything which apple had and which the judge pretty much struck down. she says apps have to be able to tell customers where other purchasing mechanisms are, what the prices are, she wants price competition in the store, and you have to have buttons and links in your apps that direct people to those purchasing mechanisms if that goes into effect, 90 days from now or 86 days from now or whatever, yeah, i think we're going to see a lot of fast and furious innovation, we're going to see a lot of boundary pushing and a lot of apple h headed back to the judge to figure out what the parameters of that rule actually are. epic has already appealed this result it is almost certain that apple across appeal and will request a stay of the judge's injunction while that appeal is sorted out and that's all happening in

parallel with the legislative action on capitol hill so will this rule come into effect i have no idea but i do know that just crossing out the anti-steering rule, which is what the judge wanted to do, creates a lot of opportunity for both business model and implementation innovation that threatens apple's core 30% cut and that opportunity, if you just take a step back, represents a big deal for how apps work, for pricing in the app store, and like you said, points against for and against apple. those points are real margin, can be invested in innovation elsewhere. >> absolutely. but, aren't there also some real user convenience issues here you guys at the verge do a good job reviewing technology and talking about usability, and design right now on the web we're used to being able to see, in checkout, i can use pay pal or apple pay or directly input my credit card.

apps haven't worked that way they have been a lot more fluid. right now if you introduce that capability, you really got to do it if you're apple, right, in a perhaps design and sophisticated way, issue some rules and guidelines to apps so there is some consistency are people going to be confused? >> yeah, i think that's right. i think that's a reasonably good argument at the same time apple overrelied on that argument and didn't convince the judge in this case. the judge repeatedly said epic didn't immediate the burden of proving digital and game transactions and she repeatedly says apple is at the precipice, apple is only reduces rates when there is legal action she's constantly noting there is a lack of competition here and then in analogy to retail stores she says the difference is in retail stores consumers have knowledge of other options, and apple is preventing that here. so, yes, i think there is a big convenience factor i think in many ways in app

purchase, particularly subscription management on the iphone is better because it is centralized, but as a consumer can i make the choice to pay higher rates for convenience versus perhaps lower rates for less good experience i feel like that's a choice i should be able to make. >> certainly, but if you look at the fact that apple is not declared a monopoly, they're taking that as a win i'm wondering if you could take a much broader view, look into your crystal ball, you've written so many interesting articles analyzing the minutia of this, but look at what it would -- could look like four or five years from now, after this case is resolved, how different will the consumer experience and apple's business model look years down the line? >> i think between what is happening in south korea with the law that looks like opening up to alternative payments, what is happening with legislation here, what is happening in europe, you're looking at a future in which digital goods like nfts, like some kinds of

cryptocurrency transactions are either subject to a 30% rate, which would be bad, or not and i think that digital goods marketplace is booming we all cover it excellently every day. if you put a cap on that and say these kinds of goods are subject to a cut in this dominant mobile platform, you're going to chill innovation there if you just zoom out, and see what is bubbling now, with nfts and crypto and all this other stuff and say should there be a toll on that kind of marketplace developing, the answer is no that's the broad view i think people should look at. >> hmm well, it is interesting to me how apple never in the begin wanted an app store to begin w the developers said we want to be able to write directly to the phone, came up with the app store and everybody was happy until they weren't and apple became dominant.

interesting when the underdog becomes the overlord thank you. >> thank you speaking of major platforms, i'm here right now at amazon headquarters and so much of what we discussed on friday and the implications of what the judge ruled about how powerful companies in apple's case have to treat their ecosystems make you think about amazon also, the fact that we're expecting to get a new iphone tomorrow and perhaps apple watch and we just got news of a coming amazon television line at the end of last week, which is sure to see quite a bit of action this holiday season. there is this interesting tension right now between the power that these companies have that some in government regulators, you know, smaller companies in their ecosystems are concerned with, carl, but then you also have these product introductions that so many people are really looking

forward to, the new phones and the convenience, the new watches, perhaps, tvs that are priced very competitively for the marketplace at a stage where smart tvs are hot. it is like a sort of, you know, push/pull. >> there is no doubt about it, jon. we can't wait to hear where you take the interview we have been talking about regulatory risk on a lot of these names, certainly the overall space for a while, julia, but to jon's point, what is the political benefit for regulators to pursue it aggressively, if consumers are so in love with the choices that it brings them it is interesting to see the d.c. attorney general widening the scope of their antitrust suit over pricing basically alleging that amazon locks in wholesalers to provide the company with goods that are in agreements that are anti-competitive >> yeah. i mean, i'm so curious to hear what jassy tells you, jon, about this antitrust push against amazon and this question of how it handles its marketplace, the power it yields, and i think there are so many clear

similarities here between amazon's marketplace and the way that apple manages its app store. the business models are entirely different, but these are such powerful gatekeepers in so many ways, jon, so i look forward to hearing you talk to him about that >> yeah. jassy led the development and the rise of amazon web services into a juggernaut in cloud and has all of amazon including these issues under his purview so looking forward to that, carl, as well. >> yeah. we can't wait. by the way, keep your eye on some of the street calls today goldman goes bullish on a number of internet sector companies after approaching derrick sheridan from ubs. the bank is introducing the new framework as they initiate 17 large cap tech names bank is taking a selective approach of the sector buy ratings include the biggest names including big tech names like amazon, alphabet, facebook as well as some social platforms like snap and uber and lyft.

overall, julia, they say in our view the industry has ample opportunities for secular revenue growth, but we're not uniformly bullish that a lot of companies have moved growth forward, priced into their equity it seems like if you had to say it in a nut shell, their most pronounced upside is in digital advertising. >> certainly i think this is a fascinating read i recommend you guys check it out, if you haven't already. they have a couple of key points here these big issues that they're watching, one of them is a line between commerce and advertising, blurriness is something we talk about not just on amazon but facebook and other social platforms the rise of the creator economy. this is a story i've been telling for a while. and then also the crucial fact that streaming media platforms are reaching this massive scale, but face these high costs. we talk about that a lot in the context of netflix so, jon, really exciting themes here and i know we're going to be talking about them for quite some time. but they're bullish on facebook

along some of the other players. >> makes sense a couple of years ago five plus maybe it seemed like there were these siloed economies, your physical world of retail, et cetera, and then there was e-commerce then we started talking about omni channel now more and more we're talking about other technologies that are crossing the boundaries between the digital and the physical, whether you're talking about, you know, inventory tracking, logistics, on the back end, up to the store experience and getting those items in the door amazon's got ring right now for doorbells. you can open the door and let the delivery person put it inside your house. all of these are opportunities for monetization, all of these are potential concerns when it comes to privacy and data in areas for innovation, guys so we look forward to seeing what apple offers along these lines tomorrow and from hearing from andy jassy as well. coming up, private is going public the newest spac on the street,

that is selling pre-ipo securities is next along with a whole lot more on apple's epic challenges "techcheck" just getting started. it's another day. and anything could happen. it could be the day you welcome 1,200 guests and all their devices. or it could be the day there's a cyberthreat. get ready for it all with an advanced network and managed services from comcast business. and get cybersecurity solutions that let you see everything on your network. plus an expert team looking ahead 24/7 to help prevent threats. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next.

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time for a gut check shares of veoneer shooting higher as qualcomm made a binding offer for the company, which is involved in autonomous driving technology now, qualcomm first announced its bid for the company a month ago, but this latest development could set the stage for a bidding war as veoneer shareholders will meet over a merger agreement with magna international. they released the board would consider both offers to find the best available transaction for its shareholders meantime, private share trading is going public. announcing plans to merge with motive capital in a deal valuing

the company at $2 billion. the company boasts 400,000 users, $10.7 billion worth of transactions since the founding back in 2014 joining us this morning forge global ceo kelly rodriguez and motive capital ceo blithe masters. appreciate your time congratulations on this. kelly, for our viewers who may not be well versed in this particular universe of trading, talk about the market transparency, efficiency, costs and where growth is headed >> yeah, well, it is a huge market 800 global unicorns and we believe the worlds access, the world needs data on pricing. and that's what forge is delivering really excited about the announcement >> blithe, talk about your view of the space and what the picture looks like say in three to five years. >> well, we're pretty excited about the story of forge because it lies at the confluence of a

must be of megatrends driving value in the fintech space whether it is digitization of markets and services, the development of tech powered platform businesses that have powerful data offerings, the opening of architecture for wealth that is providing access to new asset classes, or the rapid growth of private capital markets themselves, all of these things are driving value and forge is positioned essentially to take advantage and to provide services in connection with all of that. so we think that the outlook for the company and the sector that it is in is really very strong >> kelly, tell us a little bit about how you see forge fitting into the competitive landscape you know, nasdaq, private markets spinning off. a number of different platforms that offer at least parts of what you do. what is your competitive advantage here >> look, we think it is a big market we think the combination of market-based pricing which we

have been providing for eight years and data is unique to the competitive set. we plan on investing heavily in technology, really bringing this to a broader efficient and global market. forge is already in 70 countries. and one of the things that makes us unique is our global expansion plan and we're on track to deliver on that >> now, bliythe, i'm wondering how much you see more consolidation in the future with all of these different players out there. >> well, i think there is certainly the potential for future consolidation i don't think necessarily this is a space where there will ultimately one winner that takes all. if you look at other financial market infrastructures thereis a reasonable amount of competition in that space. what excites us, however, about forge is they have achieved

really very nice early mover advantage. the volumes that are transacting over the platform are market leading and that's a great position from which to be now positioning the public with access to public -- the company with access to public capital in order to grow and take advantage of those opportunities both in organic and organic. >> kelly, given the run that we have seen in valuations in private companies lately, how volatile are your revenues potentially going to be? it used to be that unicorn meant unique now as you mentioned there is hundreds of them gallivanting all about. >> look, we think there is a long-term need for liquidity in the space. whether a company is consistently going up into the right or the whole unicorn sector is going up and to the right will benefit and provide access to the market even during volatile times

our offering includes more than just trading we're a data business as well. we announced our data business today. and we believe that having access to what things price at are going to be what creates more liquidity in the market and that's good for everybody. >> finally, blythe, you have so much experience in this space and reputation is so impressive. i wonder when you consider fintech more broadly, beyond this particular product, we keep having conversations about apps that say they want to be one stop shop, that involves everything from trading to managing your money to payments to crypto. is that reasonable do you see a future in which players really pick a silo and stick with it? >> well, i think that the opportunity here is to build platforms that are multifaceted that allow a number of different constituents who are part of an ecosystem to perform their businesses and do that in an integrated way but you have to be realistic and

more importantly especially as a young growth company you have to be focused and what we like about the story at forge is that the company is absolutely focused on its immediate opportunity and that's to provide an integrated suite of services to both investors, to companies, and their employers addressing the information asymmetry, providing the liquidity and adding on additional value added services, data, as you may have read, forge launched the first data product just today and other related services we think it is perfectly realistic to expect this company will expand to have a multifaceted product line offering, but they will all be oriented around this immediate space. >> and before we go, i want to go back to that data business that you announced today and what that does potentially for the revenue model. should i understand that that is going to be perhaps a little bit

more stable, little bit more constant no matter what the cycle is doing, you expect, because, you know, people are looking for opportunity whether the market is particularly hot or not >> yeah, the product is already well received. the combination of the data business and our custody business is a recurring revenue component to the forge story so yes this is a transactional business, but there is also recurring revenue through the data business and through our custodial platform with almost 2 million investors. >> appreciate it very much we'll continue to watch that space with your help thanks for the time. >> thank you >> thank you well, epic and the $2 trillion emflephant in the rooms next watch dell add to goldman's conviction list as they forecast a 4 4% upside. catch all this at cnbc.com/pro "techcheck" is back in a moment.

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welcome back to "techcheck." we're resetting at the bottom of the hour i'm carl quintanilla with julia boorstin and jon fortt a breakdown of apple and epic's battle royal first, a news update with rahel solomon. >> good morning. good morning, everyone house democrats are detailing the tax hikes that they're proposing to help pay for their $3.5 trillion social safety net and climate policy plan. it calls for a top corporate tax rate of 26.5% and a top individual tax rate of 39.6% they also want a 3% surcharge on individual income above $5 million. and a capital gains tax of 25% opec is forecasting that for all of next year global demand for oil will actually top prepandemic levels crude futures are up around 1% in u.s. trading topping $70 a

barrel and dick's sporting goods is expecting a strong holiday season it plans to hire up to 10,000 seasonal workers, 1,000 mores than last year shares are down today but up more than 130% this year back to you, jon >> good luck to them findi ing 10,000 workers it is competitive out there. tencent music getting a downgrade to hold by wolf research amidst the ongoing china wreckage payments app ali pay becoming the newest rumored target of a breakup. alibaba a big steake in parent company ant group under pressure on that.

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. let's turn back to apple following the court's ruling in the antitrust suit from epic games. epic will appeal the ruling and, of course, it all comes ahead of apple's new product event tomorrow our next guest writing the financial times apple is in search of the next big thing, but perhaps it shouldn't be. joining us now former andreissen horowitz partner and tech

analyst benedict evans thanks so much for joining us. great piece in the financial times. but before we talk about the big apple event tomorrow, i want to get your thoughts on this epic ruling you write that the ruling was incomplete, but also that apple does have this advantage in all the friction that comes with a new way people will be able to buy through the app store, outside of the app store what is your sense of what this could mean for apple over the long run >> well, i think there is a bunch of short-term detailed questions and then there is the long-term macro question and lots of detailed puzzles this ruling is a little unclear as to what developers are allowed to do. but then bear in mind epic is appealing two or tree dihree dit bills. the eu spotify case, the eu decided spotify is in the right, but haven't said what they're going to do yet. apple could probably do a victory lap over the weekend, but we're still kind of

stumbling towards some new app store model, but we don't know what it will look like i think the macro question is, well, actually, once all the dust is settled, who cares this is $50 billion of commission for apple last year it was probably 70% to 80% gains. so, you know, the base case is this is a giant wealth transfer from apple to spotify and a bunch of publishers and publishers will give the money back to apple. the best case would be who cares. i think the more -- unless you're -- the more interesting set of questions i think are, you know, how much have apple's rules over the last ten years shaped what was even possible? so is the reason that 80% of payment on the store is for games because that's where the money is or is it that apple has kind of made nothing else work and if all these rules start unlocking in kind of new ways,

does stuff we haven't seen before start happening on the store? that's the big unknown question. >> interesting now, you wrote that privacy is a building block we talked about privacy being a mode how does that play into things >> apple has long decade long strategy planning sessions and, you know, they built a new chip, they built components for things, they built the touch i.d., face i.d., you got multiyear strategies where they could create technology building blocks and then combine them into new products and i think it is useful to lookat privacy in that context they spend a decade making themselves a privacy company and that's very useful if you want to do a credit card. it is also very useful if you want to make a pair of glasses that look like this but have a camera built in. it is a lot easier for apple to do that and sell that than for facebook to do that and sell that and so i think apple believe in privacy, all that stuff about

fundamental human rights and though they managed to avoid mentioning that most of the privacy features aren't available in china there should be an asterisk on their billboard, what happens on your iphone stays on your iphone, except in china. they believe it, but it is also strategic and useful to them and it is easy in a sense for them as well. they don't have a social network. they don't have a search engine. it is very easy to say we're not interested in what you're trying to do if you don't have a search engine so that gives them that building block they can use for those products. >> that's intentional, benedict. they could have built that and i think they thought about different areas that they could move into. they were going into advertising for a bit and didn't but i think it is important at times like this with rulings like this for investors to think about what is probably not going to change as we wonder what is going to change and it seems to me when i think about what is foundational to what apple is and its model, i think about the chip design, i think about the

hardware design, the operating system, the apps and services on top of that, things like apple pay, things like differential privacy and then in distribution even the retail stores provide apple with unique advantages in loyalty and engagement none of that is at risk, right when investors think about that is at risk and the details of the app store model, they have to consider all of that. >> i think that's almost -- i agree with almost all of that. it is interesting to compare apple retail with lvmh if you lockok at those premium locations, they're the world's biggest luxury goods company, but the one thing i would disagree with you on is on the user experience. it is a place where there is an ideological assault on the app store, on apple and the place where epic was coming from was the desire to turn off a lot of the protections to make it easier for developer to do whatever they want on your

devices, they can persuade you to press yes and that would be great for epic because they can do whatever they want, but it also opens up the possibility for more malware, more privacy problems, more performance problems, more and less differe differentiation. it is very funny in the epic lawsuit that tim sweeney said, yes, i use an iphone because i like all the privacy and security, but he's suing apple to remove the privacy and security controls. do you not realize that. that is what the lawsuit was so that's where there is a competitive differentiation from apple that is under question not clear what will happen there at all as i said earlier, we're kind of stumbling towards understanding what the new store model would look like. but on everything else, yes, on the chips, the hardware, the integration, the stores, yes, apple has gone -- no threat there at all >> i want you to circle back on something you said a few moments ago, talking about some of the rules starting to unlock themselves and where that might lead you said stuff we haven't seen before might start happening on

the app store. what would be an example can you spin out a hypothetical? >> well, for example, you can install a square app, but it isn't eed to access the nfc you can store snapchat, but it can't be a full camera app so there is a lot of places where the apple security -- the security reasons for that and privacy and performance reasons for that, also a bunch of things that apple locks down that mean there is innovation that can't happen and the interesting kind of countercase is to look at android, where google has weaker controls and in particular to look at android in china, which has always been well, you know, google has any control, nobody is in control, you get a chinese android phone and you have two, three, four different app stores on the phone, who were fighting each other for updates and fighting to control what you can ins install. there was a wonderful story from a couple of years ago that if you bought a -- it was scraping

your payments from inside the -- app. because there was nobody to tell them they couldn't do that so you could have a lot of innovation, not necessarily innovation you might particularly want if you didn't have any controls at all the problem is we don't know >> speaking of -- speaking of innovation, benedict, before you go, we want to make sure to get your thoughts on what you expect from apple's big event tomorrow. you write that perhaps being in search of the next big thing is not the right move for apple what do you mean by that and what should we expect from apple next >> well, with points firstly, apple has a lock on the top third of the market and will carry on minting money from that absence what i said earlier, there is no particular reason why they won't carry on selling a lot of iphones every year. tomorrow, you know, we'll see some nice cool stuff and if you buy a new iphone, it will be better than last year's iphone, but not as dramatic as first couple of years of improvement

i think the thing i mentioned earlier about apple creating building blocks, that's really what we're all looking at now is apple creating building blocks with glasses you see that in image recognition, in ai, spatial audio, motion sensing, machine learning they put on the device, in all the custom chips. they're clearly putting together building blocks that they could then use for a pair of glasses that kind of look like this but that are watching the world around you and have a display built in. spatial audio makes more sense in a pair of glasses than in a phone, for example that be with the interesting sub text to look for tomorrow. otherwise, it will be a great new phone, they'll be ahead of the market for the next six months and the android developers will catch up and leap forward some more it has been happening for the last ten years. >> well, benedict, we'll look for that context in apple's announcement tomorrow. i'm always fascinating by these glasses. thanks for joining us. >> thank you keep an eye on crowd strike today.

downgraded to neutral by goldman. the firm bullish on the space telling investors now is the time to own securities software. you can catch that call on cnbc.com after the break, andy jassy's opportunities and challenges at amazon ahead of jon's interview tomorrow, "techcheck" is back in two.

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amazon's ceo andy jassy is tomorrow but it is not the first time we have spoken to the new man in charge over the years as he ran aws. take a look. >> there is no compression algorithm for experience you can only learn certain lessons as you go through the experiences. >> andy jassy. >> andy jassy. >> andy jassy, who has been running the company's aws cloud business, is taking over as chief executive. >> he's been with amazon since 1997 >> almost every innovation that we ever do at amazon starts off as a kernel of an idea. >> if you're not finding a way to build a culture that wants to reinvent itself, you're going to really struggle in this new world. >> understated, very competitive, very smart. >> he's obviously chosen andy knowing andy very well i think this bodes terrifically well for amazon. >> there will be some companies that do everything. >> amazon is the white elephant of e-commerce. >> amazon is not a fully fledged

content company. it is one of those things it does when it bought whole foods, they didn't revolutionize the food business, restructure food, they bought it as one of the many things they do. >> our core mission is to allow any company to build their business and their applications on top of our technology infrastructure platform. >> the vast majority of media companies are using aws and netflix, despite the fact they compete very aggressively with prime video, they run everything on top of after ws, disney, warner, fox, hbo, turner, they all run on aws. >> we have our annual to talk a buffalo wing eating competition. >> are you doing the celery eating competition for the vegetarians also >> for any of our businesses at amazon, the customer experience is really the thing that unites us all, every business starts with that customer experience. everything else moves outward from there >> yeah. since 2015 around this time of year i've had an opportunity to

sit down with andy jassy back then his title was senior vice president aws, something like that. and what struck me, carl, about him pretty much from the beginning was the authority that he spoke with. a lot of times you get folks who are high level executives at a company, especially when there is a prominent founder in place, they seem to be kind of unsure and, you know, cautious to a fault in what they say but andy was always confident, not only in how he was speaking about aws itself, but also in how he was speaking about amazon and i've come to believe over the years that part of that probably goes back to the relationship that he and bezos have had he was sort of a chief of staff to bezos many years ago. that's the role out of which he helped to develop the aws concept and then grow the business out of that so now with him as ceo facing so many other challenges that we talk about across the industry,

i'm eager to hear what he's got to say >> absolutely, jon i always go back to february 2 when you brought him on, we talked about work from home and how that was an inhibitor to innovation that's a core managerial philosophy you don't get from number twos very often, julia. >> i think it will be interesting to see where he wants to change direction and where he's going to continue investing just as bezos did. i know there is some speculation here in hollywood that maybe he wouldn't be as interested in investing in content, but i think the opposite has proven to be the case. so the mgm deal and all this speculation that they could be looking for even more nfl rights and, of course, advertising is this huge growing business for amazon and we expect that to continue to grow meanwhile, the most valuable startup in the u.s. could be going public and soon a check-in on the fintech space as names like affirm continue to ride higher. that's next.

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as we take another break here, word from capitol hill this morning the democrats, in this case, chairman neil of ways and means are planning meaningful change to the caps on local and state tax deductions so-called s.a.l.t. relief is not currently in the tax plan but could become a part of future bills. they are currently capped at 10 grand. u.s. chamber of commerce saying

tax hikes they are considering are large and will result in a big economic hit we'll take a break here. dow up 245 c'mon caleb, you got this! and if you don't, there are other options! umpire: strike three, you're out! you'll get 'em next time! plan today. feel comfortable about tomorrow. massmutual.

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a report this morning that digital payments company strike is in talks to go public as soon as next year with a valuation of nearly $100 billion. that's like the white whale of private companies right now. looking forward to strike. our next guest says don't forget about those bigger established fintech players as we focus on the insurgent names driving growth joining us is darren peller. first, take a step back with us, please so we're talking a lot about major technology platforms and the power that they have at the same time, amazon, apple both recently announced partnerships with affirm in buy now, pay later and shopify already dealing with affirm in that same space and then we've got this app store ruling from a judge which many

people expect could open up possibilities for other payments platforms. what is the opportunity in this space? why are so many payments providers finding room to run where others in the big tech ecosystem are feeling pressure >> yeah, thanks. thanks for having me look, when you start off with a notion that we now have a material increase in the amount of commerce spend online up to the mid-teens percentage of total spending versus high single digits prepandemic, there's so much more digital commerce going on. millennials and really younger demographics really want neo banks, digital experiences for banking. so when you consider the fact that our estimates say over one-third of total financial app downloads are now on neo banks, not the traditional banks but newer fintech-type oriented. and if you included paypal and square it would be two-thirds. it shows why there's so much demand not only for consumers but for investors to add capital

to these spaces. >> and how much opportunity is there? in a way, a lot of people might have thought this problem is solved paypal was like 20 years ago and yet not only has paypal separated from ebay and created more investor possibility there, now we've got strike, $100 billion valuation potentially and plus a slew of other companies. >> first of all, we're onliad mid teens online right now we have a long way to go on that some developed markets considerably higher. that's a global metric when you consider what i said earlier, the digital wallet themes think about buy now, pay later there's been a shift to consumer credit shifting from traditional consumer credit on to these programs we estimate it's still only $80 billion of total volume. think about that metric out of the $15 trillion of spend on visa or mastercard so we have a long runway on buy

now, pay later and more themes b2b payments areas like softwar converging that's why investors are so excited to add capital in these areas. >> in the face of all of these new players, including strike, which of the incumbents do you think is best positioned >> first of aushlgs i think there's been a couple of probably the biggest stocks in the market trading sideways which is visa and mastercard it's important to keep in mind that even though these stocks have been underperforming for relatively a year, since the pandemic, more or less, their structure beneficiary is the pandemic and ongoing online. buy now, pay later is like an affirm or square now with after pay are going to keep money in their ecosystem and, therefore, take it away from the cards. the reality is you still use your cards to fund those after pay wallets or affirm wallets on the other side i'd say those names which are structurally stronger given how much more commerce is online now

are probably about among the best bets. also b2b like bill.com paypal was our top pick last year square has been one of our top picks this year. and in terms of the legacy names beyond visa and mastercard there are some acquirers like fis or pfizer. they have some really strong tech we estimate over 50% of their business is also thanks, guys >> appreciate that by the way, do not miss andy jassy tomorrow "halftime" starts right now. >> carl, thanks. welcome to the halftime report i'm scott wapner streaking stocks the s&p comes off its worst week since june a five-day drop that has us asking, are stocks in the midst of breaking or close to bouncing we'll debate that and your money's next move with our investment committee joining me today, bryn talkington, shannon, steve weiss and pete