>> i didn't see that coming from josh i thought i was going to be the one who goes against the grain but cleveland-cliffs who do you think is next cleveland-cliffs they'll delever their balance sheet and return a ton of capital to shareholders. >> thank you to the investment committee. "the exchange" with kelly evans begins right now >> thank you very much, frank. hi, everybody. i'm kelly evans. goldman sachs' vision of the future the firm launching a new actively managed etf its second ever. can they rival the success of arc's cathie wood. we speak with one of the managers about the similarities and key differences. we'll dig into that. plus a bold call from an influential wall street watcher. why esg investing in a waste of time and it's going to cost everyone he'll join us to make his case and america's best-selling

truck for the past four decades has been electric. the first lightning ford f-150s are leaving the factory today. we'll speak with ford's president of the americas about presales, range and competing with tesla first, we begin with today's market the dow down 143 points after giving up all of our early gains. we're down about 0.4% across all the major averages the nasdaq down about 0.3% all of this happening after a better than expected retail sales report hitting ting aroun0 a.m. a rebound in bond yields that had been declining going back to the weaker cpi this week these declines are being seen across the commodities copper, silver gold in the red today. copper is down nearly 3% speaking of which, while the dollar continues to advance, freeport-mcmoran, one of the worst performers today rio down

arcelormittal. freeport down more than 7% this will be something to watch as these come off the boil a little bit meanwhile, some of the shares of ev-makers also moving lower. lordstown and fisker both down 3% to 6% bank of america downgrading the stocks today lordstown to underperform. fisker to neutral. we'll have more on ford's electric vehicle in a moment a large focus for investors has been these big captech names faang has dominated. maybe too dominant maybe time to shift the focus and look at the names that are the future of tech rather than today's staples. goldman sachs launched the future tech leaders equity etf they are focusing on smaller emerging tech companies. if it sounds familiar it's similar to ark investments which has a number of the forward-looking innovations. how will they differentiate themselves joining me is brook dane from goldman sachs asset management and the manager of the fund. good to have you here, brook let's start with theemphasis

which is really on non-faang names. do you think this has become too dominant in most people's portfolios >> great to be back on the show, especially on such an xexciting day on goldman sachs with the launch of the future tech leaders equity etf so, yeah, we have this fundamental belief and we've been talking about it for a while that there's this disconnect between how investors are positioned and where we see the real innovation and disruptive tech coming in the world. we think the twin impacts of cellular phone ubiquity and the rise of the public cloud has democratized innovation. we're seeing a wave of interesting companies also globally in emerging markets, around the world where you're seeing tremendous innovation and great companies being born we think investors are underrepresented of that class of assets and we really think this is a really nice complement to existing investor portfolios in a really nice etf structure and framework. so we couldn't be more excited

about the product today and it's great to have an opportunity to talk about it. >> this is part of other thematic etfs. that you offer the innovate equity etf is a goldman offering the future planet etf and now this one tell me how it will work how many names are in the fund what's the turnover rate cathie wood does distinguish herself by often posting their daily trades and doing transparency things. tell me about your approach. >> sure. first of all, the fund is co-managed by myself, sung cho and nathan lynn. we work closely together this is an actively managed product and the team at arc has done a great job reinvigorating the active world and highlighting that to people. this will be a focused product we'll have around 60 names globally and again, this is long-term investments. our process is very much driven by bottoms-up analysis, getting to know the management teams doing extensive valuation work in our own forecasts and fundamentals to come up with the best 60 names we cathink can

really benefit portfolios. so we're super happy about it. 15 dedicated tech analysts across the globe looking for this next generation of innovative companies we think there's a tremendous opportunity for investors out there. >> not just faang. tesla wouldn't qualify as it's well over $100 billion and that's the centerpiece of cathie's innovation etf. palo alto. also king dee software bill.com some chip names as well. so what are the main criteria? obviously so much of this has to really just be, you know, bottom's up research but other than the -- than being under $100 billion are there any general growth metrics that you're looking at? >> sure. what we're really looking for is companies that we think can, you know, can grow at very high rates over long periods of time and we look for certain patterns

in stocks. you mentioned cybersecurity. everybody knows in the cybersecurity space there's tremendous tailwinds to the market as the threat environment rapidly evolves and changes. every 39 seconds there's a breach on the web out there. so the backdrop of the environment is incredibly robust and the need for securities is very strong. but one of the things that attracts us is there's also a secular shift happening underneath the hood of being a massive tail wind. so as companies have moved to cloud computing, it's changed the security architectures that people need. no longer can you just be protector with perimeter defenses and firewalls you need to protect workloads in the cloud, re-examine end points with -- and palo alto we think we found a company that's managed to do an excellent job of taking the core strength and existing firewalls but use that and invest in the next generation of security architectures and they've pivoted the business

over the past two years. they're at scale in thee new markets. growing rapidly. and you look at their valuation. valuation is an important part of our process look at their valuation. they and compare them to some of the pure best of breed next-gen security software, there's a big disconnect in how that stock trades we think as this management team proves itself out, the stock will be traded at more attractive valuations. that's an example of the perfect name for our portfolio you know -- >> sure. >> go ahead. >> let me ask again for people considering all these different products out there what would be your typical holding period what is the expense structure? and how do you define success? is outperforming the s&p 500 the bar? >> when we defined this product and came up with what we thought was the opportunity, we said, look, we think investors are underexposed to this level of innovation happening below the

faang. that's not really the opportunity set we're doing. so we actually, from an internal standpoint, we look at effectively the global tech ecosystem that's below $100 billion and that's the benchmark. we're looking for big cap names. in terms of expense structure, this is competitively priced with other etfs in the marketplace and is designed to be a vehicle for helping investors create wealth and drive value over time. >> a final observation/question is, with this huge interest in stocks again in retail trading, participation in the market and innovation and actively managed funds like you mentioned, do you think you'll have more to come on this front or would you offer observations about the engagement of your client base and what they are looking for. >> we've been investing in thematic products. and we coordinately run more

than $21 billion of thematic investments globally most of that product and most of that offerings have been available to our offshore clients. this and the future point are the first two we've brought in an etf framework to the u.s. market so, you know, we have a long history of thfting in thematic products we're very excited about the opportunities in this space and i would just say that we're -- we think it's a big opportunity for investors over time. >> all right brook, thanks for your time. we appreciate it >> kelly, it's been great to be on >> brook dane, the ticker of the new etf is gtek. meanwhile, just as economists have marked down their q3 growth estimates, along comes today's retail sales report suggesting that consumer spending may be on better footing than previously thought. you see the 10-year up around 1.33%. does the report, does the retail sales data mean the fed is likely a go for tapering and is

that really a headwind for stocks let's bring in michael schumacher from wells fargo. and julia coronado good to have you both. michael, am i extrapolating too much from this week's bond moves? >> maybe a little bit too much our take on it is, yes, the number today was good but the short-term data almost impossible to forecast the month to month i think you have to look at the long-termer term picture we still think the market is taking its cue from the fed in particular, the tapering is that going to happen this year we think so. we do think bond yields go up but probably not too much until that occurs. y. is it that a wait until the taper happens? >> well, the fed spent a lot of talk and not so much action with respect to tightening policy now. we've heard speech after speech from fed leader after fed leader and chair powell in particular has been swatting away the tapering questions so i think it's a bit of fool me once, okay fool me twice, that's on me. people want to see that move before they do things like put

in big short positions or position for yields to go higher at this point. >> julia, do you think the report this morning was a game changer? >> not a game changer but it demonstrates resilience. i think that we have seen the delta variant weaken the momentum in the recovery but there's no real risk that it's going to derail it. i think the fed is on track for tapering later this year we are expecting it at the november meeting and we expect next week that we'll serve as what they call advance notice they'll tell us that they are -- if progress continues to be made as expected that they will be on track for tapering in coming meetings so i think right now for the market, it's more about how long is the tapering? what is the shape of the tapering and what is the rhetoric in terms of how does chair powell tie together the tapering and prospective future rate hikes. we saw him in jackson hole

he was plenty dovish and i think to michael's point, he wants this to be a nonevent he wants this to get so tired of anticipating it that once it finally comes, it's like, okay, finally it's here. and i will just add one final point, which is, remember that they are going to be tapering their bond purchases as issuance is also tapering so the net tightening isn't as significant as it would be otherwise. >> julia, what would you say about the decline in jobless claims to almost more normal levels lately and sort of impact of delta on the economy? from the high frequency data, does it look like the worst of that impact is passed? >> i would say not yet the jobless claims number actually is a good illustration. we saw jobless claims continue to decline that's good news but the august employment report showed us that the pace of hiring might also be slowing as well so hiring is the net impact. the payrolls is the net impact of hiring versus firing.

pace of firing is slowing, but likely with reopening largely behind us. so is the pace of rehiring so what is the net impact? august was a significant disappointment as michael said huge noise in this data. very difficult to forecast i do expect hiring to stay robust but unlike inflation which has surprised systematically to the upside, the labor market has been more mixed and the shape of this labor market recovery is still far from clear there's just tremendous, tremendous friction in this economy still and the delta variant is just another source of that friction >> michael, what would you add about -- i ask you about this every time but i'm going to until yields finally go up at 1.3% is that an accurate depiction of the state of the economy? yes, the labor market data is mixed here thinking about what's going on in credit markets which are unbelievably strong. and just can't figure out whether they are taking

advantage of sort of artificially low rates or whether this is all sort of an accurate and understandable encapsulation of the u.s. economy. >> i wish it were but we think it just isn't. and it's interesting if you take a look at bond yields compared to pick your favorite economic data indicator gdp, inflation, unemployment, you name it. almost no connection really for a very long time and i would date that back to the financial krcrisis this is true in the u.s. and other countries. central banks are so involved. i'd say it's not a good barometer at this point. what it does reflect, massive wall of cash out there people have so much cash to put to work. they've been flowing into market after market, whether it's equities rocking along the last couple of weeks but generally up big. bond yields down to super low levels that cash has to be deployed that's why yields are low. >> fascinating they seem to move directionally with the moves of the economy. but the level over time may be is more liquidity driven thank you, guys.

we'll leave it there for now michael schumacher and julia coronado coming up, ford's first f-150 lightning prototypes are rolling off the factory floor today. up next, we'll speak with a top executive about range, pricing its new investments in michigan and how they're handling the chip shortage. plus, the esg movement is gaining huge momentum. but nyu's dean of valuation warrants it will do more harm than good for society. azwat joins us to make his case coming up. this is "the exchange" on cnbc i've spent centuries evolving with the world.

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it's wireless so good, it keeps one upping itself. switch to xfinity mobile and save hundreds on your wireless bill. plus, save up to $400 when you purchase a new samsung phone or upgrade your existing phone. learn more at your local xfinity store today. welcome back ford unveiled its all electric ford lightning back in may now the first models are rolling off the factory line it's not on sale until next spring but there are already 150,000 preorders. and they're investing $250 million on top of the nearly $8 billion it's already put into its michigan facilities and adding 450 more manufacturing jobs across the state to keep up with demand. joining me from ford's electric vehicle center in dearborn, michigan kumar, welcome >> thank you thank you for having me. >> so this vehicle is perhaps

the mostin significant electric vehicle yet to the u.s. market i can't imagine you're aiming to compete with tesla's cybertruck. you probably so those customers as very different. theirs probably appealing to general fans of electric vehicleses and yours may be appealing to fans of the f-150 who are on the fence about going electric do you think this car will win them over? >> well, it is one of our most iconic products. one of the most iconic trucks, period and our initial research, first of all, with the customers showed that they were really looking forward to a vehicle like pass done, as you said, we've introduced the vehicle exactly a year ago and started taking orders. and the orders have never stopped rolling in we now have over 150,000 orders. and we are trying to break all the constraints as quickly as possible so that we can satisfy this demand.

really exciting time >> tell us exactly how it will work to own one of these vehicles you know, the -- normally pickup trucks have a poor gas range 10 to 15, maybe these days upwards of 20 miles per gallon how far can the base and top level trucks go on a single charge how long does it take them to charge and is it true you think the truck battery itself can be a backup battery for powering the home >> yeah, so the trucks will go over 300 miles for one charge. and one of the misconceptions about charging electric vehicles is that it takes a long time but the way to think about it is, if you come home, park the car in your garage or the truck in your garage, plug it in every morning you leave with a full tank or a virtual tank. a fully charged battery every morning. if you are going on a longer trip, we have one of the most

expensive networks of charging stations in the country. you can stop and charge to about 80% in 20 minutes. so the range anxiety really is not going to be a very significant issue for a vehicle like this. >> there's also, i guess, questions about how strong, you know, an electric truck like this can be in terms of its cargo and pulling capacity again, to bring up the cybertruck it's a heavier car it's steel i believe your frame is aluminum but by the specs seem somewhat comparable in terms of what they can do i don't know if you want to elaborate on that. and speak about how large the market for the electric f-150 can be then we should expect the market for the traditional f-150 to decline over time. >> yeah, so first of all, in terms of pulling power and torque, the electric motors are fantastic at providing not only great torque but instantaneous

torque not only a lot of torque available which is very important to our customers it's instantaneous so it's a lot of fun to drive. one feature our customers and the very utilitarian customers in the truck segment love is what we lovingly call the front which is the front trunk basically. it gives you a lot of room to store stuff. your tools for the working kwuft mores are two or three golf bags for customers using it for more personal use so the truck will be built ford tough and it will be incredibly capable. and we did a video, i think it's still available on youtube, where we demonstrated when we launched it last year, when we first revealed it last year, showing that this truck has so much torque and they can pull a freight train and so, therefore, it makes it a very capable vehicle. >> finally, what do you think in terms of the price point with

what's happening in the supply chains you think you can see keep the entry level model urnd and how soon can they take delivery? >> the starting price will be under $40,000. as you mentioned earlier, the orders have been rolling in. we have over 150,000 orders, reservations already most of these reservations will convert order tos. and the reservations are coming from a lot of customers who haven't considered a ford in the past so a lot of conquest customers for us in terms of delivery spring of next year. spring of next year, full production starts happening and customers can start taking delivery of this wonderful iconic electric vehicle. >> it's right there behind you for those listening on the radio. just a quick final question. what kind of driver assistance technologies and capabilities

will this truck have >> so it will have the -- all the driver assist technologies like lane keeping and blind spot detection that we do today but really proud to say -- thanks for asking that question. we are going to be launching -- we are going to be equipping these vehicles with blue cruise which is our hands-free driving. as soon as you keep your eyes on the road you can take the hands off the wheel. and in certain geofenced areas like major hoighways of the country, the truck will not only accelerate and brake like our present cruise control does, but will also steer itself it's really exciting technology we're launching. >> that will be very interesting. 2022 to see the f-150 lightning. maybe the cybertruck as well it's a point of no return for the u.s. car industry. kumar, thanks for joining me

today. >> thank you very much for having me. >> kumar of ford coming up -- shares of chipotlery are trying to avoid back-to-back weekly losses they get a boost today and aew n street high price target we'll take a look at the top tech food play coming up [slow electronic notes fade in] [fast upbeat music begins]

[music stops] and release. [deep exhale] [fast upbeat music resumes] [music stops]

we see increased efficiency connected to more comfortable homes. emerson's energy star™ certified sensi™ smart thermostat uses geofencing to simplify how homeowners manage comfort and costs. emerson. consider it solved. welcome back to "the exchange." we're down about the same amount we were up this morning. dow down 133 the high plus 129. but things have moved lower. here are some of the movers. semiconductors in the red. the chip shortage creeping back into play.

xilinx down 1.6 and nvidia down 1.3% speaking of chips, casinos still struggling on concerns over regulation in macau. wynn las vegas sands and melco are also down. jpmorgan downgrading the names to neutral saying they don't like the uncertainty for more on that call head to cnbc.com/pro now to rahel solomon for a cnbc news upset. >> here's the latest convicted murderer and former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin has pleaded not guilty in a separate civil rights case. it involves a 2017 encounter with a black teenager. he used a similar restraint on george floyd this is the second federal arraignment for derek chauvin this week. for more on the charges he's facing, tune in to "the news" tonight with shepard smith north korea has successfully launched ballistic missiles from a train for the first time

an official said the rail system is an efficient counterstrike measure. the madoff victim fund has distributed another $568 million to victims in total $3.7 billion has been distributed to nearly 40,000 victims. and mass mutual will pay $4 million in overalling its social media policies as part of a settlement with massachusetts regulators over posts made by its employees who fwere online s roaring kitty. >> so his employer got in trouble, rahel >> apparently. >> wow interesting wrinkle in all of this coming up -- esg is one of the hottest investment trends, but does it actually achieve environmental social and governance goals and a recent blog post, aswath damodaran says it does not and, in fact, makes the world worse f.of

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welcome back, everybody. esg is still one of the hottest investment trends lately according to morningstar research, inflows were more than

$17 billion last yrt that's a small step down from the record-setting $21.5 billion from the first quarter but is the esg movement having a real impact and the right kind of impact. my next guest says esg could be a waste of money and could do more harm than good for society. joining me is aswath damodaran, professor at nyu stearns school of business. the good thing about having you on today is in the 24 hours since this was posted maybe you've had another chance to hear some of the biggest criticisms has your mind been changed about your declarations here or what did you think were some of the best points people make about why you might be off base on this? >> it's amazing. i've got actually very little pushback in farkts i've heard from quite a few people in the esg movement that they feel the same way. they just can't say it because they're in the business of making money off esg >> we've actually had a guest who i think was formerly with

blackrock and is on his own and has been vocal about his own concerns so let's run through them. it's one thing to say it's not effective and another thing to say it does more harm than good. why do you feel so strongly this does more harm than good >> let's start at the very top if you ask me to define esg or ask anybody to define esg, it's difficult to pin down. your definition of goodness and my definition of goodness are going to be very different that's why when services attach esg scores it's very little correlation across services on which companies they think are best so already you have a problem. can't even agree on what companies are good companies and which are bad companies. second, if you're going to tell me it increases value, show me something that backs it up right now all i'm hearing is -- seeing is a lot of hand waving about how esg is good for value. if you are selling esg to me as an investor, telling me i can make higher returns, it just doesn't make any sense it doesn't make sense because if i add a constraint to my

investment policy, no matter what it is, you can't tell me that adding a constraint gives me a better outcome than not having the constraint. you can't have your cake and eat it, too. if you want to be good, i am okay with that but don't ask me to give you higher returns while trying to be good. that, i think, is the problem with the esg movement. they want to promise -- basically cookies and cakes for everybody, calories for no one stop lying please be open and honest that being good will cost us in conveniences and as long as you hide from that truth, i think what you're going to get are people -- basically being co-opted by companies and investment funds offering to do good for them. >> right >> when in fact they should be making these decisions themselves >> this is a huge concern. if there's an option in a 401(k) to choose an esg fund, a lot of people will do that. there needs to be very clear about what they are giving up, what they are choosing and so on still underperformance is not

the real issue here because plenty of people say i'll take the underperformance because i'm changing society if we said putting performance aside, does esg achieve its goals? i'm asking you a question that by definition is impossible to answer because it has to depend on whether that goal is environmental or social or governance related and they're all in conflict with one another. i'm sure your nyu students, if they say, we want clean energy or whatever it is, then how should they achieve that goal? why doesn't esg at least help? >> i would say start with the i. you can't generalize to other people what you think is good. start with your own decisions on what you consume know -- basically your choices ultimately drive what companies do so i think goodness starts at home the danger i see with esg is by, in a sense, passing on this responsibility to companies and investment funds my fear is people are going to go back to living their life saying, if i did my job, look,

my 401(k) is an esg fund so i can drive my suv, take as many flights as i want and keep my house at 60 degrees because my job has already been done i think we're taking the responsibility of the people who should be making the decisions and letting companies stand in for us and i don't think that outcome is going to be something that you and i want, which is good for society. >> it's a really perceptive point and obviously always hardest sort of start at home. but let me ask you one more question then about those who say, okay, i still want to make corporate america a better steward of the planet, of shareholder capital through governance, of my political priorities through social. whatever that is then what is the investment advice you'd give them >> i would tell them that i share their end game which is i want companies to be better behaved as well. if you want companies to be better behaved, make it in their

best financial interest to be well behaved >> isn't that what esg does, though >> not really, right because in a sense, what does it do right now it's check boxes basically companies can get a higher esg score if they meet the check boxes that sustainability put up in front of them. ultimately if you want esg to have an impact on companies. if you want companies to behave well, we need less talk about being good and more actions that reflect goodness i think right now we're accepting a cosmessic version of goodness instead of pushing for real change in companies and that real change will come about only when our actions drive companies to behave better >> very, very interesting. aswath, really have kicked off a huge discussion and debate here. thanks for joining me. really good to have you. >> thank you the king of beers recaptured -- speaking of consumer choices the king of beers is recapturing

its place. and it's all coming up in today's rapid fire right after this ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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welcome back let's catch you up on a couple of stories that should be on your radar time for rapid fire. it's a food and beverage edition. here, delano saporo. our own kate rogers and michael santoli. great to have you all on board we'll begin with chipotle getting two new street high price targets in the past week just days after cowan hiked theirs to $22.50 it has just one analyst celebrating. it's pricey. its p/e ratio among the highest among peers. it may be high but nowhere near its own all-time highs

its full-year pardon p/e was down to 32 went back above 116 by last may. since come in to settle in around $74 michael, what are your thoughts beyond the stock's performance >> it shows you that analysts do have to stretch to find a rational to justify much further upside from here because it's been such a well-embraced investment thesis. the company has been performing so well. i'd throw away the huge multiple on super depressed earnings and say it's rich. and one of the things that struck me was that piper suggests that getting up to 47 times cash flow, enterprise value to cash flow, it's never really traded up there you really can't find that many companies that trade there but part of the premise is they can double domestic store counts not that many companies that profitable with that much consumer loyalty that can double their footprint in that period of time. that's why the bulls hold the day for the moment >> maybe that's why it commands

a higher valuation than domino's >> yeah, that's right. what mike just mentioned about consumer loyalty is something that stuck out last quarter with this name. the ceo basically said they've recouped about 70% of in-store dining sales from 2019 but they're hanging on to 80% of their digital gains. they've also been able to raise prices without turning consumers off. you can understand, obviously, it is expensive. all of that. but there's a lot of growth there and people are really sticking with the brand. the marketing tends to work. once they get you in their system digitally, it's hard to lose the customer from there >> does the p/e turn you off or would this be a long-term hold for you? >> i think investors and myself would be a long-term hold. i like the theme said across the panel. the way they went digitalinative in 2020 struck me. it was like an assembly line passing out the brown bag and customers going in and out all the time the high valuation has to set you back if you are a short-term

holder something you want to look for a better price point but at this point, the performance against the other competitors when you look at yum brands, mcdonald's you can't argue with the performance of the stock >> we move along chief chipotle and hit it up on the weekend. meanwhile deutsche bank is giving ab in bev a boost writing its rethroning the king of beers. european shares are cheap. the underlying concerns like the seltzer slowdown and beer losing share to spirits constellation brands which has wine and spirits is the only one eking out a gain boston beer the biggest laggard after it pulled guidance on accelerating growth in hard seltzer. they are looking for the next growth leader in the beverage space. >> and who knows what it will be we talked about this last time i was on rapid fire about how many hard seltzer names there are this makes note of the fact the decline in hard seltzer sales

could be a boost for beer sales which had been tapering off. people buying less hard seltzer. could be better for beer sales but who knows what it will be. i know topo chico has its hard seltzer going across the country soon that could be another catalyst to get people like myself potentially interested in that i have no idea what comes next >> this has been a difficult space to invest in lately. anywhere you'd want to be buying up some of these names >> this is actually a very difficult space. talking about the slowdown in seltzers and you want to look at some areas of stocks that you think may be under value boston beer company has had a litany of issues legal issues, different things as far as management pulling back guidance. but this is a company that introduced a brand in seltzer brand in 2016 in truly and had tremendous growth. it's since come back if you have been investing, you look at opportunities to buy on the dip. that may be something to consider if they clear up some of these issues. let's move along and talk

about beyond meat. doesn't run on dunkin. piper sandler says the discontinuation of the beyond sausage sandwich retail sales fell 10% in the third quarter but beyond's partnership with pepsi to develop plant-based protein snacks and beverages could remain a wild card in a positive sense. what do you say about beyond meat >> it's obviously lost some of that buzz around it being a leader in this huge emerging area it's a little if you dial out a cautionary story about racing for the one stock that seems a pure play on what everybody acknowledges is going to be a big trend for plant-based meats. a $10 billion market cap at the peak it was feeding off partnerships and distribution announcements it wasn't really about the numbers. they already have a large starting market share in this alternative meat category. can it go up or is it going to go down from here? it's obviously kind of had its reckoning to some degree cut in half since the peak

>> kate? >> well, it's been a push/pull throughout the pandemic for beyond because its retail sales in the u.s. are about three quarters of its u.s. sales that's the food stores people were pantry loading throughout the pandemic. that gave them a boost that fell off last quarter food service in restaurants did pick up which was good news but now with delta, that could pull back the note mentions the wild card is the deal with pepsi what these alt-meat products and snacks will be interesting to me they call it a wild card not sure what comes of that. we heard from the pepsi ceo that should come in 2022. myself, a lot of analysts will be looking forward to kind of see what comes out of that this quarter will be an interesting one because the pandemic continues to impact its business on both ends. >> no, i'm trying to think of what are the meat snacks jerky? maybe some pork skins? you think impossible may be winning some share >> i eat real meat i don't know if you are looking at this

situation. it's a bumpy ride for impossible -- for beyond and i think you mentioned impossible is gaining share. if you look at these companies for beyond, you are looking at growth imagine seeing growth is slowing. this is a stock i'd probably stay out of as of now. >> finally today let's talk about this call on door dash despite the reopening, delivery is said to boom according to bank of america. its analysts are upgrading dash citing a robust five-year. according to its own data, restaurant spending is holding up surprisingly well which should benefit dash. you buy this >> i mean, so these fee caps in certain big cities like new york city and san francisco, obviously, stand to impact, but this could be an area of growth for dash i didn't realize we were all this lazy in terms of getting convenience items delivered, alcohol delivered. a lot of people relied on it for food service delivery during the pandemic i got hooked into that and haven't stepped back yet

it will be interesting where it goes from here i didn't realize that many people were that bought into this as a service beyond just food delivery and other items like that was surprising to me >> would you rather have the shares if they become the all-in-one delivery app or if they stick with what they do best >> if you are looking at just the food delivery. such a competitive space dash has been the market leader, up over 16% year to date uber and grub down over 20% year to date. the market clearly likes what dash is doing as far as delivery expansion, making -- as far as looking at becoming a super app and delivering all items that's the big clear winner here if you are a holder, stay long because it's clear the market is looking at dash as leading this category >> mike, i wouldn't have seen that coming that uber and lyft would struggle as businesses but food delivery with all the fees people are always explaining -- complaining about and the issues that kate mentioned that it would stibl still be

outperforming. >> nobody kind of went broke overestimating the laziness of the american consumer, i guess that's part of it. also the massive technological shift that's enabled all of this if you look inside this analyst report on doordash, 17 cents in adjusted ebitda per order. that's the business model right business model right now that's what they take in adjusted cash flow it's a tough way to make a living it's years before it seems it's spinning out profits and that's the total adjustable market stays large lay your bets. it's a three or four company race in this area to deliver absolutely everything to you >> maybe this can be some comfort, only 17 cents of ebitda thank you for "rapid fire" today. coming up, a retirement account loophole exploited by high earners could soon be closing. we have those details next remember, you can catchthis show anytime anywhere by listening to and following "the

exchange" podcast.

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was revealed he had a $5 billion roth i.r.a. causing congress to propose caps closingthe loophole that allowed this to happen robert >> reporter: kelly this is a retirement tool for the middle class that has become a popular tax shelter for the ultra wealthy. the number of i.r.a.s with more than $5 million has tripled to over 28,000. those with accounts over $25 million have over $53 billion in assets the new house plan effectively bars the wealthy from creating these mega i.r.a.s first of all, it would effectively limit i.r.a. accounts to $10 million. once the balance reaches $10 million, taxpayers can no longer make contributions if the balance of your i.r.a., roth i.r.a. and benefit plan totals $10 million you have to distribute half of the amount over $10 million finally the rules close the

creation of so-called mega roth i.r.a.s. to get around the current income limits wealthy savers are contributing to i.r.a.s and then converting them into roth i.r.a.s which, of course, are more tax effective the new rules prevent those making more than $400,000 a year from these conversions the house also seeking to limit the kinds of investment you can put into i.r.a.s peter thiel placed early shares of paypal into his roth i.r.a., which, as you mentioned, grew into the largest ever at $5 billion. kelly? >> robert, the bigger impact, the conversion, is more limited. you can only do $6,500 a year, right? >> reporter: that's right. right now the limit is between $6,000 and $7,000 and income limits, also age limits. but the wealthy, as always, figure out ways around these and hopefully this will at least close the most obvious loophole

which, again, was this conversion where you pay the taxes upon the conversion. but when you withdrew that money, no matter how large it became, there would be no tax. >> right, right. the whole premise of the roth. robert, we appreciate it thank you, our robert frank with the very latest. up next, this company is up more than 40% on the year. it's our mystery chart today on the heels of announcing a revamp shares are on pace to break their longest winning streak since 2019. the name after this break.

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markets with limited growth to recurring revenue streams from contracts and subscriptions. cisco shares are up more than 40% over the past year so it remains to be seen if investors will appreciate the old tech names, transformation in the long term cisco, oracle, dell all experiencing similar size year-to-date gains that does it for "the exchange." "power lunch" begins right now it most surely does. and welcome, everybody glad you could join us here is what's ahead this hour and it's going to be a busy one because president biden will -- let's go to president biden right now on the economy and the build back better plan that i have proposed. i've said many times before, i believe we're at an inflection point in this country, one of those moments where the decisions we're about to mak