it is 5:00 a.m. at cnbc and here's your top five at five, stocks set to bounce back a bit following monday's hit futures are higher across the board. all this as investors around the world look at china's evergrande group, the most indebted real estate company in the world. joyce chang is here to way in how options and market structure also played a role in the selloff. we'll break it down for you. the federal reserve kicking off its two-day policy meeting

today. will the markets force them to keep pushing back? their paper timeline. it's day two of our two-week series "go big or go home" david cats with his top pick and random and dare we say recent data on the market's downturn. it's tuesday, september 21st, 2021, this is "worldwide exchange." ♪ good morning, good afternoon, or good evening and as always welcome from wherever in the world you may be watching i'm brian sullivan, thanks for joining us it's a busy tuesday let's get to it check your morning money see if we're going to get some selling or bounce back it looks like we're going to split the middle seeing furttures on the dow up

solidly higher but, of course, the major averages took a tumble on monday, ending down nearly but not quite 2% the dow falling more than 650 points so right now the futures indicating we'll gain about half that back. there is one potential upside. we did yesterday end well off our lows buyers coming in really just the last 15, 20 minutes, in fact, the dow closed 300 points from its low in the session why the big down move in the first place? depends on who you can the debt crisis of china's second biggest real estate developer, evergrande, that grabbed the headlines. but others say technical or options related reasons for the selling as well. we'll get to that in a few minutes. what did rise on monday? fear for one thing, the volatility index up nearly 30%

to its highest level since may the u.s. dollar and gold rose just a touch also. we have called this the everything rally because everything had been going up, right. but monday pretty much -- everything pretty much went down, it wasn't just stocks. it was things like oil, natural gas, even silver and many other commodities. crypto a big part of that. in fact, you could say crypto got hit the hardest, losing, right now they are mixed let's go now around the world as our name says, and overnight asia still coming back from a long holiday weekend and continuing to digest the news out of china trading in europe is just under way as well. let's get the global wrap. good morning >> good morning, brian the theme overnight is one of stabilization. let me take you to asian markets. as you mentioned, chinese equities still on holiday so not

a lot to read thing. hang seng you can see finally some green emerging in the overnight session up .5% there was an s&p report released overnight suggesting the evergrande situation would be limited to evergrande and disspel disspell fears of broader. so it's not a story going away any time soon the nikkei back from holiday, playing catch up with global markets yesterday down about 2 percentage points the picture for europe, positive you can see every one of these is trading nicely in the green yesterday the stoxx 600 was down, this morning it's up 1 percentage point so almost rec recuperated the losses from yesterday. we have airlines reacting well,

the parent company of british airways up about 5 percentage points this after you guys, americans, have announced you're opening your borders to european travelers so a positive session for european airlines. france up about 2 points a quick look at sectors because almost single one in europe is trading in the positive, insurance up 1.5%. tech up 1.5, it got heavily hit in yesterday's trading and oil and gas, a basket we've been watching closely up 1.6 percentage points as well. another strong day for miners, too, which got gclobbered yesterday, brian. >> allowing europeans to come back and visit us, we look forward to it as well. thank you. right now, though, let's get to some of this morning's other top stories, including the latest on the upcoming fiscal

cliff and the race to fund the american government. good morning >> good morning, brian that's right so the s.e.c. is issuing the latest warning to investors looking to put money to work in chinese companies. a regulator detailed the potential risks in putting money to work in companies that have contact but no control over their chinese entities and india could surpass the fifth market by 2024 the pipeline for future listings is expected to remain strong over the next two years. as many as 150 private firms could potentially list on the stock market over the next 36 months adding as much as $400 billion of market value house democrats say they will try to pass a bill that prevents a government shutdown and suspends the u.s. debt limit

until the end of next year as they try to dodge two possibly crises in one move congress faces a september 30th deadline to fund the federal government separately janet yellen has told lawmakers the u.s. will likely not be able to pay its bills in october if congress does not raise or suspend the debt ceiling. brian? >> fiscal cliff certainly is part of the whole market story right now and it's creeping up on us every day. >> absolutely. >> see you in a few minutes. thank you very much. let's get back to the markets. we could see a bit of a bounce back today futures are higher across the board, dow futures up about 350. all this as we digest a number of headwinds the suddenly debt crisis in china with real estate developer evergrande you have the fed meeting starting today and the unwinding of its balance sheet the debt ceiling, and the

reduced budget support post pandemic as well joining us now to tie all of this together for you is joyce chang, one of america's banks most powerful women in fitnnanc ten years running thanks for coming on is the evergrande debt issue and the interest payment at the end of the week a systemic risk to the chinese or global banking systems. >> it's great to be with you, brian. evergrande is not a systemic risk but it's an industry-wide event and it's not over. i think you're going to continue to see further risk off over the next couple of weeks and there's going to be a focus on reducing leverage i don't think you're going to see the government being proactive in bailing out -- in a bail out but the government, its ultimate

goal is to lower systemic risk even though the sentiment is going to continue, i do want to highlight that the property developer are only about 7% of total loans in the system. if we look at the overall banking sector in china, evergrande's debt is around $1 trillion, that's about 41 bases points in china. but if you look at the total loan wash reserve for the first half of the year, it was 340 basis points of bank loans so i don't think this is a systemic risk and i don't think it's a systemic risk to the banking system but the volatility is going to continue i don't think that we're done with this regulatory tightening crusade and i think the equity volatility will remain high. >> i'm going to get back to macro china in a minute, joyce but first a two-parter do you and your team anticipate

that evergrande will miss the upcoming interest payment at the end of this week, and if so, or if not, what happens then? >> well, our base case is for a stand still. we've seen this before frankly, china had started on this process of allowing more corporate default in the past. so this started a couple of years ago. the surprise is that evergrande is one of the largest ones and i do think that evergrande could be used as an example of what happens when companies become too big and aggressive in the bond issuing and investing i think rather than avoid restructuring, i would suspect and prepare for a stand still. i think that china usually doesn't present a problem without having some type of solution in mind i think that's the type of workout that markets need to anticipate i think that, you know, the one thing that we are looking at is just the overall default rate

and that rising. we've seen about 6 million of defaults, you know, in the china high yield market, about 4.5, 5% of that market i think that number is going to increase, you know, across the industry but again, i don't see a systemic risk, and i think that the government, you know, will, you know, be able to, you know, manage this. but i think that this tightening is going to continue and you have to expect it to rise and fall >> yeah, it's big money, 300 billion, but to your point maybe not to the chinese government which brings us back to the more macro issue. joyce i tweeted out yesterday that it appears that if you sort of look at history, china right now in the last 18 months or so, is undergoing maybe its greatest political and societal shift since the early to mid 1970s kind of under our noses, telling people how long they can play

video games, social media, don't list i.p.o.s in new york does this news give the chinese government more of a heavy hand and openness to be able to regulate markets which to your point they're already regulating, which could reduce the attractiveness or growth of the chinese markets, which could hurt the global markets? i know i threw a lot at you but i hope you get my point. >> the key words are common prosperity this is a target they laid out to achieve by 2035 there's a couple things they're trying to do they're trying to regulate the sectors that expanded early on we've seen it happen in china before we saw china take actions on the shipping sector early on so it's the new economy sector the other concern is disposable income and the social and consumer welfare

you are going to see regulation that touches things like health care, education, the high tutoring costs, things that are very expensive for the middle class in china so what we're going to see is a tolerance for short term in exchange for medium term structural gains and for the third quarter of a year we have china's growth at basically zero, at flat. that compares to 10% in europe and about 5% in the u.s., which we've taken down a number of times since july so we are seeing weaker growth just looking at real estate, a 5% slow down in real estate takes about 0.3% off of china's gdp growth every 1% down in china's growth is about .5% down in global growth so i do think that we need to be prepared for the third quarter slow down that's under way but they need to do, i think, more rate cuts in october

as well as take some action on the policy side there. >> 0.3%, not the biggest number in the world but with an economy their size it's not nothing as well i guess what our viewers here watching or listening right now, joyce, may be wondering is, does all of what we just talked about have a negative impact on our markets? are you adjusting your s&p 500 price target for this year or next year? >> we adjusted the s&p 500 target up. and that's really off of the earnings outlooks. >> wow. >> we expect the s&p 500 to 4700, took it up from 4500 from earlier this year. this is all about the earnings i still would say the key to all of this is that, you know, as we look at the delta variant in 90% of the states we see the infection rate coming down so we don't see permanent demand

here so we're positive on the market equity outlook we raised the s&p 500 target we also raised our eps estimates from 205 to 210 for 2021 and 230 to 240 for 2022. so i would not see this impacting the u.s. markets now all of that said, we've taken down third quarter u.s. growth to 5% back in july we had this at 9.5% so that's 4 percentage points down that's still a healthy number. we do see that the business side momentum, where consumer demand is at, health and savings, corporate balance sheets are still supportive of a business cycle not in a late phase. it's one that has momentum from here >> yeah, raising the target up thankfully as covid cases and hospitalizations come down, particularly in the south coming down strong. maybe a little good news joyce chang of j.p. morgan, a

pleasure to have you on. thank you. take care. >> thank you, brian for having me. >> you're welcome. welcome back any time. when we come back, the universal music saga ending on a high note as its shares soar. a rough ride for act vision, as regulators step up regulation and one group of stocks actually took off, and it might be a pretty good sign in many ways a little optimism. it's your rbi ahead. dow futures up 300 we're back right after this. (vo) this is a place for ambition. a forge of progress. a unicorn in training. a corner to build a legacy. a vision for tomorrow. a fresh start. a blank canvas. a second act. a renewed company culture. a temple for ideas.

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it is time now for your big money movers the three key stock stories of the day. let's go stock number one, activision blizzard the wall street journal reporting the s.e.c. is reportedly launching a wide ranging investigation into the company, including how the company handled allegations of misconduct in the work place and sexual discrimination. the stock is actually up up next, dr horton lowering its sales guidance, blaming a shortage of building supplies and workers which hurt its ability to, quote, meet strong home demand. this as lennar reported mixed

results, the company saying it faced supply chain complaints. shares there down about over 3%. and stock number three, universal music. shares surging in their public market debut in europe it is the largest listing in europe of the year it is the company behind artists like lady gaga and taylor swift opened over $29 per share come down but still a 35%, perhaps a giant win. still on deck. it is day two of our two-week special series go big or just go home our top stock pickers lay out their best plays for the rest of the year, just for you you'll hear what david katz likes headed into october but only if you keep it here on "worldwide exchange. >> announcer: today's big number 13.4%.

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president. mr. biden started his week of diplomacy by meeting with the u.n. secretary general he's expected to try to rally world leaders to work together on covid, climate change and other challenges but must also defend the exit of afghanistan fbi agents searched the home of brian laundrie. he was named a person of interest in gabby petito's disappearance days before a body was discovered in wyoming. investigators have not released a cause of death canadian prime minister justin trudeau won a third term but his party fell short of the majority he will have to work with opposition leaders as the country works to emerge from the pandemic. the packers.

the second half belonged to the packers, in particular aaron jones caught three touchdowns and ran one in the packers ran away from the lions, 35-17 brian, back to you >> game started, i was 42 points up on my fantasy football rival, i went to bed, woke up, won the week by .8 he had aaron jones. what a showing >> there you go, absolutely. >> yeah. four touchdowns you go all right. on deck, why did the markets really selloff on monday here's a hint, despite the headlines, it wasn't just ever grand. there was a lot more going on and we'll tell you about it coming up here on "worldwide exchange." we'll be right back. dow futures up 300 a bit of a bounce back tuesday stick around

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it's looking like a bounce back tuesday, futures they are higher after monday's big selloff, investors may look to buy the dip. but who is the evergrande? china's sudden debt threat and what is the real risk to global markets. and jeff bezos pledging to

give away $1 billion to one cause this year. here's a hint, think oceans. it is tuesday, september 21st, and this is "worldwide exchange." welcome back good tuesday morning it's 5:28 here on the east coast thanks for joining us, there's a lot going on let's get to your morning money and see if we are getting more follow through selling after monday's big selloff we are not futures they are higher not where they were, not what we lost, dow futures up 307, just over 1% so maybe looking to regain about half of our 650 point drop markets, as you know, maybe you were under a rock, who knows, took a tumble on monday. the major averages ending down nearly 2%, the dow down more

than 650 points. there was one potential upside to it all. we ended well off our lows of the day. buyers really streaming in in the last 15 to 20 minutes of the market the dow closed 300 points off its low from the session and strategists rushing to the rescue for one j.p. morgan chase's marco saying writing in a note to clients, quote, our fundamental thesis remains unchanged and we see the selloff as an opportunity to buy the dip. just one of many strategists coming out and saying we are optimistic longer term so why the big move on monday? depends on who you ask the debt crisis at evergrande group grabbed all the headlines. but there were technical or options related moves happening that might have exacerbated to the selling. we'll get more on that in just a

minute but right now to that story. the latest developments out of china, the global investment world is watching the sudden debt crisis around chinese real estate developer evergrande group, it's the most indebted company in the world and has a huge debt payment due later this week or risk default let's get more on the story, day two, learn more about evergrande eunice yoon is in beijing. >> reporter: they're going all out to try to calm investors and boost market sentiment in a letter to staff today, the state media had picked up this letter written by the chairman, saying that evergrande would walk out of its darkest moment very soon and resume full-scale constructions of its property projects as soon as possible now other property developers are also trying to prove their

financial strength for example, the cofounders of a firm rnf said they're injecting $1 billion of their own capital into the company they also said they sold their property management business to rival country garden a lot of other property developers announced share purchases or bond redemses early. all in an effort to try to boost confidence around the property sector fears remain of a contagion within the property sector the fate of sinic is a top trending topic this is after shares of the smaller company tanked by 90%, brian. remain suspended s&p downgraded the company and made some comments which again spooked investors saying they believe beijing would not provide any direct support to

evergrande unless there is a far reaching contagion. >> talk to us more about evergrande i'm not going to pretend that i knew anything about them before this absolutely not i heard the name in passing. saw their signs in hong kong, that's about it. they are giant, 1.5 million departments but they also have a wealth management division, they've gotten into things like electric cars, auto sales. talk to us more about just who evergrande is, and maybe how they got to this position. >> reporter: well, they got to the position because they borrowed so much money and expanded so this is kind of a typical style of company here, where you see a company that does quite well in its core business, such as real estate in this particular example and then use that money and that -- those connections to be able to expand into other areas. you mentioned that the company had gone into evs, at one point

the billionaire founder had bragged he believed the company could take on tesla. he also has gone into bottled water. he's gone into the internet services as well as soccer in fact, the billionaire founder is said to be -- to share a lot of the same interests as president xi jingping since both of them have been very interested in if soccer. so the company expanded way too much, very, very leveraged and once beijing's policy started to change where the chinese government said we don't want companies, especially the private sector to be borrowing so much money. we have these three red lines. we want to make sure that you are able to meet and once the company wasn't able to meet those lines anymore, it started to run into trouble. >> the debt payment coming up later this week, that is a big story as well. you're all over it we appreciate it

eunice joon in beijing we told you a moment ago that jeff bezos was planning to donate $1 billion to one cause let's find out where the cause is and get other headlines happening now. >> robinhood is reportedly testing a new crypto wallet and currency transfer features bl bloomburg said it would let senders send digital policies. the new york post said the hedge fund made $5 million from the sale and jeff bezos is pledging to give away $1 billion in grants this year to support conservation efforts this is part of the bezos earth fund, the $10 billion commitment to those supporting and addressing climate change.

>> thank you very much a billion dollars going to oceans i think it was the tropical congo region, or something like this. >> yes there was a couple of places it's going to. >> a couple of places like that. all right. now to day two of our special series "go big or go home" where we're trying to find you some money making opportunities to round out the year. here with that and dare we say some random but interesting stats on the market is david katz david, it's a pleasure to have you back on again as well. i'm going to read some of the stats because i almost stole them for the rbi, but i can't do that to david, these are his numbers we'll let him do it. this is amazing -- we're waiting for the 5% pullback. we talked about it, we actually got it just off the highs. you said there were 34 market pullbacks more than 5% going back to 1993 but of those times what has

happened later on. give us a little bit of deep stock market history to make us feel a bit better about what happened yesterday. >> that's the surprise thing the corrections happened there pretty quick typically take three to four months and the recoveries are also pretty quick, four to five months of the 34 corrections, three were big bear markets, 31 were modest and you had fully gone back to the highs within three or four months we expect that to be the case this time, don't expect a bear market so we're saying this is a good time to buy the dips at the lows the markets were off 5%, that's been a year since you had that type of correction. we think it's safe to go back into the water if you had money on the sidelines, looking to put money to work. there are stocks down more than 10%, so we think there are very good opportunities out there right now. we'll talk about some stock picks later. we're more excited about stocks

today than we were weeks ago and we think there's good opportunities if you have a six to 12 month time frame. >> we may continue to go down, david, right it's not like okay, the all clear and that was it. you're investing for the long-term and a name like qualcomm is one of the names topping your list. >> so qualcomm is a great technology company, they are in the guts of every cell phone, in terms of 5g, they're also going to be in automobiles and other areas of industrials over the next few years you're buying it 16 times earnings, very powerful franchise, great price. >> another one, you know, we've talked a little bit -- i don't want to call them mid major banks. we've had a lot of people on the show talking about the pnc and truist of the world. you like another game, bank

corp., huge company but doesn't get the market attention like the big dogs. >> even the big dogs aren't getting respect these days right now u.s. bank corp. is a top 10 bank, generating great deal of money, diversified, buying at 11 points earnings banks have done well this year we think they have another 12 to 18 months of returns it's recently pulled back, but again, great entry point, good outlook, especially if the economy is improving we do believe interest rates are getting a little bit higher, that will give them tailwind. >> you could actually write a via come movie or series about the warfare and drama around viacom >> we think they have a good

streaming strategy which is going to take hold we think that the ceo is doing a really good job in running the business and selling at about nine times earnings. this is a good franchise, al about eyeballs they have great product and at nine times earnings think you're going to do well this year. we had it earlier, sold it, bought it back we think it has 50% as an independent company, think it's going to do better but we think there's a chance they'll get acquired both ways you win. >> you've been coming on cnbc ever and i'm sure i ever heard you say 50% upside so viacom is a name we're watching along with qualcomm thanks for being part of the series. >> have a great day, thanks. next week we're doing that

go big or go home. we are finding the opportunity for you. up next was monday's selloff really because of china and evergrande or maybe something else under the hood of the markets? chris rp imuhys here to help make you smarter we're back after this. with free 1-to-2 day delivery from your local cvs... or same day if you need it sooner but at a time like this, aren't you glad you can also just swing by to pick it up? and get your questions answered. because peace of mind is something you just can't get in a cardboard box. that's healthier made easier. at cvs. (vo) introducing 48 square centimeters of earning potential. flawlessly designed. undeniably versatile. unlimited 2% cash back. this is the card built for...

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lively offers bluetooth connected, fda approved hearing aids delivered to your door, sold at a fraction of the price, with direct access to an audiologist whenever you need it. better hearing has never been this easy. try lively risk free for 100 days. visit listenlively.com the growing debt crisis with china's evergrande group dominated the headlines on

monday and is widely being blamed for why we sold off but is that entirely true? the dow remember was down three weeks in a row headed into yesterday and other averages were showing some sign of exhaustion as well so let's try to figure out exactly what went on and look a little more under the hood and bring in chris murphy. his research notes always a must read great to have you on, i appreciate it. i know it's early. when we look at the entirety of what happened, was it all china or was it china plus other stuff? >> brian, yeah, i certainly think it was china plus other stuff. it was great to be able to point to one thing for the selloff yesterday but keep in mind that expiration on friday was one of the biggest expirations of all time that's a huge liquidity event then turn the page to monday, much less liquidity on the back

of that event. that could have an impact. enough has been weighing in on markets and we shouldn't be surprised to see a move like we saw yesterday. it felt like more of a shock because we hadn't seen one in so long but it was not even a one standard deviation move by the end of the day we haven't had a -- i'm sorry it wasn't even a two-standard deviation move by the end of the day. we haven't had a two-standard deviation move in seven months we would expect five or six over that span. it was partly the surprise of the move because wehaven't see a move like that in a while. but it should be somewhat expected to see a move like that from time to time. >> that's it and i know i've bored our viewers to tears the last few years talking about things like market structure, negative gamma options positioning. it's 5:45 in the morning i know nobody wants to hear it as they're waking up, but when you look at the way the market has

gone up without the big drops, of course, minus the covid thing, that was its own thing. just the steady climb up, how did the options factor into this, the gamma gamma change of price move, how did the options positioning factor into the speed of the decline and the other ones we have seen the last few years? >> sure. well, you know, buying calls, long calls, it's been a real popular strategy as investigators, retail or institutional, are buying calls and it's mostly on the equity level but that has a huge impact as they're buying calls and market markers are selling them, market makers go out and buy stock. that's aslow process, you see the grinding moves higher. however, when the market does sell off, all of a sudden if those calls that the market makers are short are not in the money anymore, then the market makers at the same time have to

go out and sell some stock so you suddenly can see those sharp moves lower on the down days because, you know, market makers are unwinding their positions and that juxtaposes with the slow grind higher incrementally as investors are buying calls on the way up >> this is a really, really important point that you are making because when you look at the way that market structure, whether it's the al goes, market makers, etf, options has evolved in really just the last five years is that kind of, chris, go going forward our new reality? i was trying to explain it to my family last night, maybe this is stupid, tell me. i describe it as a treadmill with a slight incline. you're plodding away on the treadmill with a slight incline and every once in a while you fall off, you catch a shoe lace and go down. the new market is like that, we'll grind higher, have a

sharp, steep, fast, embarrassing drop, grind higher is that our new reality? >> i think there's something to that i think there's the argument that there really is nowhere else to go if you look at u.s. treasury yields and what other places you can put your money besides the stock market right now. so that's part of it you don't want to be the last person out the door when we do have those sell offs and you mentioned it's early so we don't want to dig too much into market skew so that's the way that s&p skew is pricing the market relatively low volatility right around the options -- the options right around where the market is trading but further out of the money on the down side, that volatility is high it's like the market is telling you, okay, nine times out of ten or 98 times out of 100, the dip is going to be bought but the one or two times it breaks

through the dip buyers we'll see a real move to the down side. >> as you pointed out in a note, there was some bullish activity late dayin the market with buyers coming in to names like twitter, morgan stanley and others we appreciate you getting up early and coming on, chris thank you. >> thank you your morning rbi and what happened inside the stock market monday that may actually be some good news ahead? something you're going to only hear here on "worldwide exchange." and then john is here, we'll talk about the market and options and what they flagged a few days ago that might have been a crystal ball into the move by the way, here's the guy, follow the podcast, "worldwide exchange." dow futures up 340 we're back after this. expect things to be simple. and they want it all personalized.

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time for your morning rbi.

and this one will stay smack dab on the markets what else given what happened on monday. you heard a lot about the selloff. but today's most random but interesting thing is something you may not have heard about yesterday. and it may actually be a bit of a good sign. that's right, during the selloff on monday, only 50 s&p 500 stocks rose, a dismal 10% showing. but you have to look at which stocks ended in the green. pretty much all the airlines and travel stocks. american airlines, delta, united, southwest, as well as expedia and booking holdings they all gained on monday on what was no doubt a lousy take american airlines up 3%. why should you care? maybe two reasons, number one transports like these are generally considered leading indicators so could be a good sign ahead plus these are super consumer

discretionary names and with the recent talk of rising covid, people have gotten nervous but covid cases and hospitalizations are trending down florida hospitalizations down 32% in just two weeks. some of the other hard-hit states are seeing a rollover in the south. the point is, the market move monday may have, hopefully, hinted at better days ahead and some maybe some good things to come we'll find out but the travel names they all rose. random and interesting john is joining us now, the co-founder of market pavilion. john you just heard our conversation with chris murphy, we talked your world, options. you guys and your team flagged, i think, four days ago, some underlying moves in things like the russell 2000 etf that may

have been a signal what did you see and what did it tell you >> sure. well, so last friday, brian, and chris was right about a couple things, by the way one of which was that expiration friday was huge. and that means that a lot of people, unless they rolled the positions into this week, brian, or further out, didn't have either, a, protection, or b, bets either to the upside or down side that would play out this week. those positions expired on friday last week what didn't expire was a big purchase of about 60,000 of the iwm puts these puts were purchased at the 218 strike and they went deep in the money. in fact, you more than tripled your money on those 60,000 puts. that's a big trade multi-million dollar winner.

now did somebody just need protection or did they think maybe something this week would play out the way it did yesterday? certainly these one-day events are becoming more and more common we used to say there are no one-day events but lately it's been just that one other trade that happened that was pretty big was the end of august somebody bought an awful lot of puts -- rather calls. 90,000 of the vix calls. those calls, of course, go up in value when volatility or fear goes up and that's what happened on a day like yesterday. the vix for those november futures about 17.5, it shot through 25 yesterday so another big winner. people had some positions on but to chris murphy's point, rap perhaps not as many positions as they needed to protect the

multi-billion dollar portfolios. >> you may have heard my terrible treadmill analogy about the way the markets work and crash -- give me a break it's early. we talked about these one day events you mentioned, if you're a market participant now, that's your new reality, correct because the way the market structure changed you have to be willing to deal with not slow grinds down, but big a slow grind up, a big drop, correct? >> yes a big drop followed by a big jump the very next day these kind of moves, these bounces were far more rare just a couple of years ago. but especially given that we've got the fed meeting tomorrow, brian, and a lot of us feel that the fed will stay on the sidelines not start that taper until the november meeting means you just had to get through to wednesday. that was your oxygen tank if you

were deep under water. you were just hoping you had enough oxygen to reach wednesday because you're hoping then that the fed does exactly that and the markets calm down significantly on wednesday it looks like to your point jon we may get that violent snap back as well always love your insight a pleasure talk soon, bud dpip appreciate it. >> thank you, brian. a very different "worldwide exchange." yesterday we left you with dow futures down big, today up another wild day on the street we'll see you tomorrow as well squawk and the gang will pick up all the coverage have an awesome tuesday. take care.

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good morning, futures pointing to a rebound. we'll show you what's moving right now. meantime the fed kicking off its closely-watched policy meeting today. we'll get ready for tomorrow's news conference. plus universal music group shares are surging in their public debut that's the company behind artists like lady gaga and taylor swift it's tuesday, september 21st, 2021 and "squawk box" begins right

now. welcome to "squawk box" on cnbc i'm becky quick. the dow closed down yesterday by 614 points that was the worst one day drop since july but that was way off the lows, there was a rally into the close, we had been down almost 1,000 points until the last 15 or 20 minutes of trading. the s&p 500 down 1.7% for the worst day since may 12th it pulled back 5% from the record high. right now it sits at 4.1% from that record. check things out today as joe mentioned, futures are up big