it is 5:00 a.m. at cnbc and here's your top five at five they take away and then give back stocks continue to bounce back futures are higher across the board. that rebound partly fueled by the fed's easy money policies. they're here to stay for now but rate hikes are tapering. it's not just the fed, shares of evergrande are surging after the company said they're going to try to pay investors back. we're on the ground with the latest the fda giving the green light for booster shots for pfizer for

millions of americans seen as the most vulnerable to the pandemic our special series, "go big or go home" goes on. why our guest says the bull markets still have plenty of room to run. he has brought stock picks with him. it's happening on this thursday, september 23rd this is "worldwide exchange. good morning, good afternoon, or good evening as always welcome from wherever in the world you may be watching i'm brian sullivan thanks for joining us let's get to it. here's the globals are setting up the day stock futures are higher across the board. major averages up about 1.5 down to .6% if you want to get specific at 5:00 a.m we had decent gains on wednesday as the fed stays dubbish there was a little confusion

over the fed as well but i think it autopsy important this morning, the day after to note two things. the so-called taper will likely start in november or maybe december or january but as you heard every guest on the show mention it doesn't matter when exactly the date is. number two, despite some changes in projections to the so called dot plots where they think rates will be, it is unlikely the fed will begin to raise interest rates even next year some early articles suggested they might based on those dot plots but as steve leishman and others said that's a slight tweak and the market is not expecting any rate hikes even in 2022 we talk about the fed, we have to talk about the bond market as well the ten year yield by the way, it's still low at 1.33% right now that bonds didn't move in a big way is a sign about fed ex peckations with crypto, decent gains

yesterday we're still below the levels of a month ago i get it but up a little bit right now, 43.887 for bitcoin let's go around the world quickly. in asia, it was a mixed session, hang hang seng the holiday on wednesday, the evergrande group shares surged as much as 20% by the comments by the chairman, although it is not clear how much it will pay back on the debt payment, which is due today and it's already 5:00 p.m. we'll get more of that in a moment a lot of green on the screen in europe major averages across the board. so much to do this hour but kick off by hitting the key headlines this morning, including booster shots coming for some americans. we have that and more. good morning silvana. >> reporter: good morning, the

fda has authorized pfizer covid booster shots for those 65 and older, the agency approving the shot for those at risk suffering from severe illness if they get the virus. pfizer had been seeking for approval for everyone 16 and over who were already immunized. the cdc is set to issue guidance on boosters after an advisory panel votes on the third shot, expected today as you mentioned, shares of evergrande group surging in overseas trading overnight ahead of today's deadline. that coming amid a report that the chinese developer's chairman said the company will make it a top priority to help retail investors redeem their products. evergrande group faces an $83 million payment today. president biden set to hold meetings today following yesterday's issues the white house saying progress was made amid the talks. a group of 11 democratic senators is urging the party's

house leaders to stay on course with the original dual track plan to pass the $3.5 trillion social spending bill before taking up a bipartisan infrastructure deal. bernie sanders, cory booker, kirsten gillibrand among those making that call brian? >> it's a big fight there. >> absolutely. >> if you read a lot of research, the odds of that happening they say are not zero but it's going to be a big fight, even amongst the democrats. thank you very much. now to the markets, the fed and your money as we noted, there was some confusion around the fed meeting yesterday with regard to the group's economic projections, the so called dot plots on where they see rates headed and whether they pulled their time line for interest rate hikes forward. so given that, it's a great time to catch up with christopher ailman, chief officer of calsters who helps oversee some

$318 billion and is very sensitive to interest rates. we begin by asking about the apparent confusion around those rate hike projections and what his take is about what the fed really said when it comes to the next rate hike >> brian you have to love the dot plot it always creates controversy and everybody is trying to figure out where everybody is on that a great point, it's two separate events he made the markets convince them don't equate the two, taper is one thing, if the economy is one thing it can take its foot off the gas pedal, the markets love that. everything went green when he announced that but it's really the rate increase i thought it was interesting the dot plot is pointing to 2.5% on fed funds at some point and people have to pay attention to that there's so much uncertainty about the economy and i think there is confusion

keep in mind, it was pointed out by cnbc that over half of the fmc is going to turn over by december >> yep. >> we're going to have a new majority by the middle of next year. >> that's so important the voting members they roll over every year so people on the tape making comments every day, their comments may matter but their vote won't next year and vice versa, if you were a betting man and you are with a couple hundred billion dollars, chris, do we get a rate hike in 2022 >> it's tough to say exactly i would lean toward yes, because, you know, with rates at zero we need to have what we call normal interest rates again. it tends to put too much emphasis on risk assets. brian we went through this in 2010, '11, '12 when the question was let's get back to normal rates give the fed some ammo it's going to depend on the economy and the strange

unemployment situation where you have lots of unemployed and lots of employment opportunities and the two are not meeting. i don't know how that plays out. i'm not going to predict the covid virus. who knows if we're still talking about that a year from now >> let's hope not. there are more open jobs in america, 10.8 million i think than there are people looking for work it's a really remarkable time in american and human history let's go back to the other thing, the taper and rate hikes. the way i described it to my teenager, i said on one hand you have a bunch of credit card debt and the taper is paying off that debt then you worry about the rate on that debt going up it's not perfectly analogous but that's the way i describe it what is more important to you, to your investments and to maybe even our audience with just their retirement portfolio the reduction of bond buying or the raise of interest rates?

what will move the ship more >> i'm going to confuse your audience by saying if if you're retired and living on a fixed income, it's inflation, what that tstatistic. it probably is seeing them slow down on that credit card because that really isn't paying it off. that is building a fed balance sheet. it has to be unwound at some point. it applies the economy is doing okay when they start playing with interest rates, then they're talking about inflation, which is really the big fear for retirees and for us, i noticed in the comments he didn't say transitory inflation maybe they're starting to realize there's some stickiness to this inflation risk while they're happy now i think that's a story in 2022 we have to watch the shortages of parts and supplies are invasive of the economy. >> yeah. the fed can say transitory but

no ceo that comes on cnbc i don't think has used that term, at least they can't get supplies, they can't get parts as well. speaking of inflation, chris we have our delivering alpha conference coming up next wednesday, virtual, you can still sign up go to cnbc.com i'm hosting a panel on credit and inflation. when you look at credit, owning debt like you do, what's the opportunity going to be, because inflation kills interest income. so what's going to be the outcome for the next ten years, is it like you have to own stocks because credit is doa in many ways? >> that's a good panel to listen to, you have elizabeth burton from hawaii, a strong up and comer in our industry, very opinionated lady, very insightful cred spreads are way too tight, so investing in debt isn't

attractive at these levels if you factor in inflation, a lot is negative yields you're seeing people buy private credit because it's variable rate so they can rise back up with it. and people are really reducing their fixed income exposures over all so the opportunities in high yield are far and few between and there's concern in the credit markets that just spreads this tight is not worth the risk. >> i'm looking at your benchmarks and what you have to own as far as asset classes. you're at 48% public equities, stocks in other words. but about 11% just under 11% in fixed income i mean, you -- 11% of your money is a huge sum of money, is hard to find stuff to buy >> right now it's not. it's listed with u.s. governments and agencies and a

little bit of high yield it's interesting, that number 11% is way down from where it used to be i can go back, i've been in business a long time, to the 80s where it was 40% of our portfolios we reduced that exposure to fixed income as interest rates have come down so you're seeing people like us create a portfolio more diversified not just traditional but private credit, asset-backed securities, other securities we think gives us variable rates and the opportunity to climb when rates turn and head back up. >> finally, i know you're not an individual stock picker but you have a massive portfolio i notice you have been reducing your holdings in big tech, apple. the biggest one coming down. is that because you think the run from big tech is done or they've gone up so much it messed with your benchmarks and you had to sell even though you

liked the space? >> it's a little bit of our active managers. while we're 70% passive we have some active managers but it's also rebalancing within our portfolio to make sure we have proper exposure to mid and small cap. when you look at the market. you're right, big tech and the narrow names in big tech have run so much they've been overweight relative to other opportunities. so it's just a matter of us rebalancing our portfolio and keeping us exposed with reasonable exposures in what we think is other opportunities. >> always a pleasure to have you on the program and the network, especially after the fed, very, very important chris, best to you, thank you. >> thank you, brian. good to talk to you. thanks again to chris ailman in that wide ranging interview when we come back, your morning's big money movers including the new toast of the town making its market debut in a big way.

by the way, making its founders billionaires the white house calling on big american companies to figure out the global semiconductor crunch and figure it out fast. your morning rbi is a big fed on the stock market, the potentially massive payout for one investor "worldwide exchange" rolls on after this dow futures up 265 we'll see you on the other side of this short commercial break flawlessly designed. undeniably versatile. unlimited 2% cash back. this is the card built for... ...real life. (dad) she's gonna be a drummer. (cashier) yeah she is. that's gonna get loud. (dad) right? (vo) the new wells fargo active cash visa credit card. unlimited 2% cash back on purchases. that's real life ready. your doctor gives you a prescription.

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time now for your big money movers, the three key stock stories of the morning or at least three of of them stock one is a new one, toast. who is toast it's a maker of restaurant software and payment technology and it soared in its i.p.o. yesterday opening at roughly $65, well above the price of 40. the company was started about ten years ago and is now valued at about $30 billion, congrats to them. stock number two is kb homes even as the third quarter results missed forecasts it says, what else, labor and supply shortages continue to impact its operations. and stock three, blackberry. yep, blackberry, shares are jumping as the second quarter revenue beat forecast. it's on strong demand for cyber security and interesting things software

blackberry shares have been volatile the past year, but they have nearly doubled from this time last year you go bb, stock up 9% right now. still on deck, congress' debt ceiling drama, called the riskiest in decades. the fallout in lawmakers cannot strike a deal with days to go. >> announcer: today's "big number," 20% that's the share of all container ships in the pacific ocean that are stuck waiting to loin acrdg to an estimate by flexport

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welcome back let's check some of this morning's other top headlines outside the world of money and business francis rivera in new york with those. good morning. >> reporter: good morning. in florida the search for gabby petito's fiance continues with dive teams searching the swampland. police have searched a nature preserve for days without finding any signs of brian laundrie his family said he went hiking and never returned home last tuesday. the biden administration is scrambling to contain the haitian migrant crisis, the bridge camp is getting smaller authorities have released thousands of migrants in the u.s. with notices to appear

within the next 60 days. an urgency in spain continues this morning, lava from a volcano have destroyed hundreds of homes. and the end of the fiery destruction could be weeks if not months away. "saturday night live" returns on october 2nd. here's the lineup. it is the first time hosting for all four stars the musical guests are casey musgraves, halsey, young thug and brandy carlyle the question is who is the -- the cast i should say, is going to come back for this season >> it's a big one there. kacey musgraves a fantastic singer maybe we'll be on there one day kicking off snl. >> i'm okay in this chair. >> that's -- exactly

that would be something. thank you. >> sure. we are not done. we have half a show left coming up, a shakeup in the c suite at facebook, a top exec is out as the company continues to deal with the growing pr crisis. if you don't follow our podcast, if you miss the show any day out on the road driving, it's early, we know, follow our podcast called "worldwide exan." 'rba rhtfter this. feel stuck with credit card debt? ♪ move your high-interest debt to a sofi personal loan. earn $10 just for viewing your rate — and get your money right. ♪

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let the easy money train keep rolling stocks snapping their losing streak as the fed holds tight on its monetary policy for now. futures, they are higher it's debt deadline day for china's evergrande as the company's chairman works to calm investors' nerves we are live in beijing with the latest. it's day four of our special series "go big or go home" laying out some new stock names just for you it is thursday, september 23rd, this is "worldwide exchange." welcome or welcome back, everybody. it's 5:26 on the east coast. hope you're having a great start to your day or end of the day on the other side of the planet i'm brian sullivan let's get to it. here's how the money and global markets are setting up the day stock futures setting up nicely.

gains across the board, dow futures up 265 nasdaq up about .6%. there was a little confusion over the fed but maybe important to note a couple of things number one the so-called taper the reduction of bond buying will start in november, december, maybe january but the timing itself probably doesn't matter that much and secondly, more important despite some change in their projections among some fed member, it is very unlikely the fed will actually start to raise rates even next year there were early articles that suggested they might but that's not what the so-called dot plots where each member puts their projections, show that according to steve leishman and others, so unlikely to get a rate hike next year. things could change but that was the takeaway we talk about the fed, got to talk about bonds, ten year yield

showing that the bond market didn't move on the fed as well if anybody is going to move, it would be bonds, ten year yield still at a low 1.34% good news i guess for home buyers or refies mortgage rates should stay low as well. let's kick off with a reset and get you up to speed with what's happening now silvana is back with more headlines on this thursday morning. >> president biden is reportedly set to tap a crypto and big bank critic to become top regulator of wall street biden will nominate a law professor to run the office of the comptroller of the currency. the report says that is expected to pursue tougher oversight and rules for big banks. the biden administration, set to hold a virtual summit on the ongoing global chip shortage today. they plan to attend a meeting

with representatives from apple, microsoft, samsung, gm and ford. the panel is expected to focus on topics including how to better coordinate between chip producers and consumers. and facebook's chief technology officer announced he's stepping down he'll transition to a part-time role with the company and will be replaced next year by andrew bos bosworth the move comes amid a series of reports shedding a light on how facebook has failed to address problems affecting numerous customers across the services. >> the stock not necessarily responding but we have to watch it, a little bit off the highs thank you. see you soon. >> you got it, brian now to the latest on the story that shook stocks this week that is the debt crisis surrounding china's evergrande group. shares did surge in hong kong trading today.

the company's chairman out with comments trying to reassure investors. it's still not clear if evergrande will make the debt payment today. do we know if the debt payment was made today, eunice >> reporter: so far no word, brian. i'm standing outside of an evergrande real estate project here in beijing. and the staff have repeated that they will be able to make their deliveries of these homes on time not only to us, but also to several of the homeowners who have gathered here because of their concern about the finances of this company. now the staff's message, really echos what we heard out of the chairman late last night, according to state media, he convened a special meeting of 4,000 managers where he said the company's to go all in to guarantee homes. he also said that wealth

investors are a top priority now it's unclear, as you had said, exactly how he plans to sort out all of his finances he does still face this looming deadline today where the company has to pay interest on a dollar denominated bond there has been some hope and you can see it reflected in the stock price, that there could be some negotiations in the works, private negotiations because that's what they did, the flagship property business here, was able to make an interest payment for an onshore note and so, that has lifted some hope that perhaps the company and the authorities here are willing to try to sort out some sort of debt restructuring in an orderly manner for the company as well as for the economy now on the economy, the central bank also injected another $17 billion into the banking

system yet another injection that we've seen over the past several days. it's really being seen as a sign that the policy makers do prioritize stabilizing the financial system, the property sector, that they're trying to make sure this doesn't have a spillover effect into the economy. and, in fact, fitch, the ratings agency downgraded its gdp forecast for 2021 for china from 8.4% to 8.1 because of the property slow down so there are a lot of concerns, brian. >> yeah, there certainly are and the story is not over yet. e what are the people telling you about the crisis are people even talking about it there? >> reporter: they are. there have been several homeowners coming to this property actually we drove to several different properties for evergrande and a lot of the people here are concerned that they won't be able to get their homes on time. they said that they've heard

about this negative news, they're worried about whether or not they're going to be able to get these properties these are expensive properties some of the properties that we saw, or at least the models, are $300,000 homes so that's a lot of money for an average family here in china so a lot of people are getting concerned. but again, the messaging that they're hearing from the staff and, of course, from the state media and officially, is that things are going to be okay. at the end of the day, you know, it's going to be sorted out in the end. i think one gentleman told us he believes that the government is going to guarantee the homes just because it is such a sensitive matter >> certainly is. and the story is not over yet. we'll find out about the debt payment due today. thank you very much. appreciate it. let's switch gears and go to day four of our special series "go big or go home". as always, we are working to help find you stocks to help you

make money to round out the year this week we have heard from some of our favorite stock pickers, stephanie link, david katz, and yesterday vance howard said pay come, intel and lulu lemon were all good bets for you. let's see what today brings with craig johnson, a man more right about the macro markets in the last five or six years than anybody else appreciate it, you and your team doing great macro work today it's about micro i love when a guest throws out a ticker and i have to look it up. you did that for me. meoh methonex who and why? >> well, brian, first off, this is a company in the specialty chemical space we're starting to see obviously a recovery in the economy and a pick up in the basic material

parts of the market right now. so it's a stock to us, it looks like one we think should be bought it's one that i would put on a short list as we look forward into the second half of the year as the economy really picks up and starts to recover. >> yeah, it's off its highs but it's been hot the last 30 days or so. another new name a name i've heard in passing, couldn't tell you what they do, tech, biotechne. what about the charts are you seeing with this stock that makes you like it going into year end the. >> so brian, this is a chart that has been putting up really nice price action, the strength has been strong, it's a constructive segment inside of the health care space. health care has been very challenged this year this is a minnesota based company, obviously doing well, it's one we like the relative

strength, we like the trend and it's one we should be focussing on one other one i think we should talk about too is unity software this stock has made a very impressive looking inverted head and shoulders bottom it is also, to us, poised to set up for 30% upside from here and it's in a very key part of the market, which is 2d, 3d, graphic tools, virtual reality this looks like a stock that has a nice growth profile and a nice earning set up for it going forward from here. that's a third one i would put onto our list, brian. >> when you say going back to the technicals, you say inverse head and shoulders if we bring up the chart of unity again, we are off the highs, stock looked mateterriblr months what do you see to say this may be a real turn and it looks like it happened in early may >> what we're saying in terms of

the technicals there, brian. you have the left shoulder, you have this push lower that makes the kind of head and then you get the next sort of move back up and can't get down to the prior low where you had the prior head so you look like a left shoulder, head and right shoulder, but inverted from our perspective when we finally start seeing this stock break above that neckline of that inverted head and shoulders which is the area where you form your left shoulder, head and right shoulder, not to get too technical but if you measure that neckline to head standing up, it's a good indication of how far that stock can run that's what we think is going to happen with unity software right theme, technical, price action all coming together it's kind of a stars and moons alignment when you're looking at fundamentals and technicals on that one. >> listen, you can get technical, that's why you're

here, craig. that's what you do you're one of the best in the business i want to talk about two other names, one you bought and one you sold this is interesting i think it was last week or something, we did a segment on when to sell. we're always talking about when to buy we need to know when to sell if you made enough money, your money is going to be flat for years to come. you bought one oil company, sec and sold another, pxd. they're kind of similar companies. tell us why. what's the different, what did you see? >> we sold the pioneer, we sold clb too. so this was another company inside of our energy exposure. what we were looking to do is basically take out pioneer, which was underperforming along with they were lagging

cimerex is reducing the down trend we've been seeing the last six to nine months or so so we're seeing better absolute and relative strength. we're trying to pick up alpha every day and it looks like cimerex is going to do that for us we think that looks like good opportunity to make a swap we took two positions that were smaller and bought one larger position which is cimarex. >> really good stuff. >> it's a portfolio and technical decision as why we did it. >> you're combining the two worlds there got a great energy research team so shout out to them new names there, we like to hear them craig johnson we're watching unity, cimarex, methanex appreciate it, buddy. >> thank you do not miss craig and all this week's guests go back and maybe defend some of their picks

5:30 a.m. eastern time tomorrow, round table discussion, get you going. what else is better? wake up, get on the treadmill, get a cup of coffee and get a round table discussion on stocks. our series also rolls on next week. we have great guests there as well so set your dvrs or tune in next week coming up, the debt limit show down why some top wall street analysts are beginning to get nervous about the drama in d.c. right now. as we head to break, more key headlines. tesla wants the government to raise penalties for auto makers who do not meet fuel requirements it's important because tesla sells environmental credits to other auto makers to meet, and elon musk is arguing those credits are less valuable.

gavin newsom signing a bill yesterday aimed at protecting warehouse workers. it'll limit companies from setting quotas good news for apple store workers. the company is set to drop a $1,000, one-time bonus on all of its retail team members. it comes as a thank you for keeping the stores running during the pandemic. dow futureup50 e ckight after this. but your customers, they still expect things to be simple. and they want it all personalized. with ibm, you can do both. businesses like insurers can automate it processes across clouds. so agents can spend more time on customer needs. and whatever comes your way, you've got it covered. saving time and improving customer service, that's why so many businesses work, with ibm.

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welcome back, good thursday morning, 5:43, beautiful look at the capitol in d.c maybe you're getting on the highway 66, who knows the orange line at the metro, either way, that is the capitol of capital because wall street is closely watching what is happening down there in d.c and between republican versus democrat or even democrat versus other democrat on two big spending bill, there is a lot to follow rights now. but let's focus this morning on debt limit and the so-called fiscal cliff wall street starting to get nervous. goldman sachs calling the stalemate on capitol hill the riskiest in decades. what some are saying the worst case scenarios good morning where do we stand >> good morning. the warning of defaulting on the debt are getting clouder as

republicans and democrats dig into positions the treasury department would face a $500 billion short fall for october and november if congress does not raise the debt ceiling. that would trigger a 40% cut in federal spending, potentially including interest payments, social security checks and military pay a default could result in a downturn that would rival the great recession and gdp could drop 4%, 6 million jobs would be at risk and stock prices could plummet by a third >> i can't think of a worse gut punch to the american people who spent the last 19 months fighting against covid-19 pandemic than to see their life savings disappear because republicans won't pay political bills and are simply trying to gain political advantage. >> as you mentioned, that is the nightmare scenario, no one wants it to happen and republicans say that they

agree that defaulting would endanger the economy which is why democrats should raise the debt ceiling all on their own. even a delay caused by the political wrangling could be damaging in a letter yesterday, six former treasury secretaries said postponing action to raise the debt limit too close to the deadline undermines confidence in our political system at home and abroad you know this is all a political exercise but one with real consequences for american households and investors back to you. >> it certainly does listen, a lot of people may not realize we have the most evenly divided congress in 150 years, it is tight. tied in the senate, almost tied in in the house. can the democrats, the way it's structured now, raise the debt ceiling on their own >> yeah, when republicans say that what they're really talking about is they want democrats to use the same process that

they're using to pass the $3.5 trillion spending bill, they want them to add the debt limit onto that. the problem is that process takes a lot of time. it could take a couple of weeks even and we are getting closer and closer to that x date of when treasury is going to run out of borrowing authority. the problem is, democrats have tied this to keeping the government open, that deadline is september 30th. you could face the possibility of a government shutdown coupled with running up against the debt limit situation. that is why some wall street analysts are starting to get worried about the scenario >> is it because, i would imagine, mitch mcconnell, the republicans, want to say hey, it's on you. you did it it's your bag. you take the political fallout >> yeah, that's right. that's what republicans are saying this would pave the way for that $3.5 trillion spending plan so they don't want any part of it the reality is whether democrats

do this using that sort of fast track reconciliation process or whether they do it through regular order on the floor with 60 votes, et cetera. republicans are going to need to offer them some measure of procedural help in order for this to happen the democratic argument is one way or the other you have to throw us a bone here you might as well do it in a way that diverts all of this drama at the deadline. >> it's all going to play out over the next couple of days or weeks. we're glad you're over it as well thank you, have a great day. >> thank you. on deck, your morning rbi and a big bet on the stock you have to hear about cnbc's delivering alpha is back it's next wednesday, september 29th and it's all about maximizing returns in the era of opportunity. you can still register go to

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today's most random but interesting thing has to do with a stock market bet a really, really big bet and one that you might like to hear if you are long stocks. according to boomburg a trader put a bet that stocks will soar into the end of the year and did it with options. it's wonky but interesting this trader spent about $50 million on call spreads in the s&p 500 etf. over the next three months if those call spreads all come in, they could be worth about $136 million for a profit of about 86 million in about 90 days or about a million bucks per day. our friend of show chris murphy says there is a chance this could be somebody who is simply underweight stocks and is looking to make it up with lost time with a big bet.

but it is more likely this is a straight up bet on stocks going, well, straight up, higher to the end of the year by somebody who is already very bullish and obviously somebody who's got a lot of money to bet with so all in all, forget about the trade itself, the macro takeaway is maybe that bet is at least one good sign heading into the final three months of the year, even if you're just a regular old investor random but interesting let's talk to somebody who knows a thing or two about the options action and can shed light on what we just talked about. that is amy silverman, head of derivative strategy. i wrote the rbi yesterday not re realizing you were following it, our good luck it worked out. what does that bet say to you? what do you think that trader is trying to accomplish, besides, you know, making money >> yeah, you know, we watch that

with great interest because it's always signaling to us a shift in sentiment, brian. options market sentiment has been glum up until recently. it's really been more demand for hedges and the call spreads you mentioned were pretty substantial but they weren't the only ones trading in the market. i think their size made them notable to several people and there are hedging ding dynamics around the called spreads being so large that pushed up the market intraday. but the trades are ones we're seeing the investors doing more and more they're reversing buying calls, they're buying call spreads, expressing much more bullish sentiment than we've seen in a while. >> you know what's so important amy and what you said, we have talked a lot this last couple years on this program in

particular about market structure and the impact that options and derivative strategies, delta one, all these things that you talked about but most americans have no idea what they are your point was a trade like that, while 50 million is kind of i know peanuts in the big world of hedge funds, the fact you said it did shift parts of the overall market how do they correlate >> it's a dynamic we've seen more and more. we've talked about retail call buying and how when that happens in mass it drives up the market. if you buy a call option, there's somebody else who is selling you that call option, that person is usually a broker/dealer, someone who doesn't want to have a directional view, they're just trying to facilitate so something they do, called a delta hedge, to help neutralize the stock position, they sell a

call bill, try to buy more shares to reduce the sensitive of the option to underlying stock moves when that happens that can exacerbate upmoves. i don't know if you remember the nasdaq whale in august of 2020, very exacerbating situation for a lot of stocks like facebook, and salesforce they're all related to dealer delta dynamic hedging in the market. >> i think delta is the word i've used more the last two years except one other word as i try to understand your world, it's the word skew word of the day. when you look at the skew, the extreme call buying from individual options traders what you see now, correct me if i'm wrong, means that people, not just whoever the trader is, are getting more bullish in the year end >> yeah, and what's notable about that, when we had draw

downs in the past couple draw downs we've seen, people have been getting more bearish so people bought more hedges. so one thing i said, look you're going into a market that's very well hedged. a market that's well hedged has trouble going down, the reason is people aren't going to be panicked when they see the draw down because they have the hedge in place now we're seeing the hedges be lifted and people buying more upside so the opposite is true, you're going into a market with decreasing hedges. so we see a draw down now, there's less hedges in if place and there may be that scramble to place the hedges later on, which could cause an interesting volatile environment into the future >> really important ainterestin look inside. amy, i don't know about our viewers but i learned a lot in that segment, always a great day. thank you for coming on, amy

appreciate it. >> thank you folks we talk about it all the time on this program market structure how the options market do impact the broader equity markets as well it's the butterfly effect. it's too early, i need another cup of coffee. i'm going to make it we'll see you tomorrow "worldwide exchange" with our weekly insider buying segment as ha a ve great day "squawk box" is next

good morning, fed chair jay powell adding fuel to the market rebound. we'll show you what he said that helped stocks break a four day losing streak, at least in the dow. evergrande helping maybe as well soaring in hong kong overnight ahead of a key debt payment due today. an update straight ahead

plus the trial of elizabeth holmes, cnbc has obtained hundreds of pages of private text messages that could be central to the case. we'll hear from a reporter who's been inside the courtroom every day. thursday, september 23rd, 2021, "squawk box" begins right now. good morning welcome to "squawk box" here onc snb. i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. we start with the markets. the dow jumped by 338 points yesterday that broke a four day losing streak and posted the best daily performance since july 20th. it came after the fed's announcement, more on that in a moment but if you look at the u.s. equity futures you'll see gains once again dow futures te