longer term. it shows you that things are rounding in a place for that adjustment that we had for slightly slower growth last quarter and less aggression on investors part >> we are tracking for the best week for the s&p since august. best sector is utilities that's going to do it for us on a thursday evening. have a good night. "fast money" begins now. >> live, we are looking at new york city times square i'm melissa lee. this is our lineup tonight we are watching shares of tesla kicking off its annual meeting in less than 30 minutes. what you can expect whennie leln

musk takes the stage one of our traders getting nervous heading into next week he or she will tell us why the s&p, dow and nasdaq notching their highest closes of the month. 10 of 11 sectors were up today led by consumer stocks the ten-year treasury yield at its highest level since mid june how do you make sense of this market action, guy >> will you indulge me for just a minute, mel? >> all right >> try to have enthusiasm. dan's denim is fitting today because when i was a wee lad in the '90s, they said we need to go to this establishment the peculiar pub so with yields trading at what

they were today. if you told me ten years 158 where is the s&p, i would have said we were well short. here we are rallying makes no sense to me maybe it's charlie munger's comments yields going higher is a warning sign the market didn't choose to heed it today >> it would have been a surprise if yesterday was where the scenario was today >> there were many tech leaders or past leaders who were underperforming. i think there is a potential for it to drag other names we talked about it on the show a couple nights ago. we are still seeing underperformance by some of the major names, amazon and apple

relative to the indices. if you have a move to the highs of 177 in late march, i don't think the major tech stocks participate and could drag things down. you also have a dollar about to break out or appears it is about to break out and you have oil staying put. all of those things together doesn't make up a setup for stocks we are only a couple percent from the all-time high but i am not seeing a runaway breakout >> how do you make sense of today's market action? it seemed a lot of things weren't in its favor except kicking the can down the road to december on the debt limit >> that's a big thing though when we saw the market being down and rallying, we got a

sense this was weighing on the market we thought maybeit was scare tactics, but it was weighing on the market because it turned around thank god, that's for another day, only like seven weeks away. less maybe that's how myopic this market is, that something that happens in december is not relevant to us now i think it should be, but it isn't. doesn't matter what i think. what might be pushing the market is the idea that maybe things are getting a tiny bit better in terms of the pileup at the ports. maybe that's loosening a little bit. i'm not sure if that's the case, it would make sense that the economy would be back on track a little more and that rates would rise rates rising to me isn't

necessarily a death knell for stocks that makes sense to me except for the part we will worry about it in december that will be scares y again in december >> that would be a roadblock if you think there will be seasonal strength until the end of the year, but, oh, by the way, we are going to deal with the debt limit again. it will be another weight on the market in december, tim. >> i think a lot of the seasonal elements of september/october are behind us. we did have a crash in '87, and october can rear its ugly head, but there is an element that markets have technically corrected some of that the nasdaq is up 4.5%. you have a strong argument that i think the market, as guy pointed out, can wake up on a

particular side of the bed i think higher rates are fine. i think up to 2% are fine. i think $100 is fine i am of the view that i think the debt ceiling was an issue, but i don't think it was that significant of an issue. i think just oversold conditions and pessimism have worn out for now. let's not overthink it because at one point debt folks were saying the debt ceiling were the reason the rates were going higher you would think that rates would go down a little bit and in fact we were tat that. >> i think we should mark this date down, that $100 oil

heating oil is one of the best performingcommodities and we are only entering the cold season natural gas is also up more than double for the past year, guy. all of this adds up. >> quite frankly, i hope he's right in that prognostication because maybe that will mean the economy is doing better and maybe the fed will have this entire thing right i would take the other side. if we get to 100, i think the market won't like that and i think we will get there in short order and the speed with which we get there will be problematic. the fact the rates went up on the debt ceiling the rate should have gone down after this and they didn't j.p. morgan has been watching "fast money" because i think

they put a target on schlumberger real quick, scx had one of the best days it has had in quite sometime the things we have talked about seemingly are still working, but there are certain concerns out there that i still have. >> when do we think -- i will go back to tim on this. when do we think things might stop working for this kind of trade? it doesn't have to be a massive factor it could be anything. >> when will the s&p >> no. the materials trade, oil trade >> look, energy. we have broken a 14-year down trend in oil it's easier for it to get to 100 than 50. i think you have a case here

where i pointed out a company like freeport has not reinvested there will be shortages in copper there is an infrastructure bill. for all of the dollar strength, the dollar hasn't really knocked these guys down. i think that tells you where demand and structural issues are at work. i also said these companies are run better i think these trades can continue unless we -- unless the fed oversteps their bounds and stomps on this thing right now, unless it's 2018 again, they are scared to do that >> dan >> we have already had a few earnings over the last few weeks. we saw nike and fedex. and facebook had a guide about some of their ad revenues. the combination of higher dollar and higher energy rates are a

nightmare for corporate earnings a lot of our multinationals -- our country opened up before much of the world. so we have a stronger dollar and the next leg of growth will be outside the u.s. i think that is a problem. i expect squishy q 4 guidance, maybe some peak margins here that's when you have to start thinking about valuations as far as the stock market. it wasn't until we sold off about 5% over the last few weeks when i started hearing analysts and strategists talk about valuations that is in hindsight so we may have gotten a precursor of what will happen to the market in the next few months. >> formore on how to navigate the market's recent activity, let's bring in lori.

>> thanks for having me. >> you are not saying all in on value or growth. you are saying a little bit of both >> that's right. we have looked at them both and looked at cyclical versus secular. we feel there is room for things to go well we need covid cases to improve which has been happening we are seeing the rate of change come down and the peak in the covid cases a lot of people expected but we also think fed rates are toxic for cyclicals. so the intermediate trade into next year. but unfortunately, small caps versus -- we don't think you want to get too comfortable. we think you want to stay in the best of both worlds.

>> in your barbell, i know energy fits in there and banks and they may sit on the same side of the barbell. which do you think has more umph to it? >> financials and energy look similar, look undervalued to us. we like energy because the trends have been so resilient in terms much the rate to the upside fangs financials, they report early. and financials have weakened a little historically when you get an upward move, you get upward revision in financials because of bank stocks so i think that's one thing to watch. if we see momentum come back with financial earnings. >> financials is a sector i

follow a lot within financials are i differentiating between an old line j.p. morgan or a square or something more techie? >> the way we do the work is on the gig sector we see -- the test part of the market, we don't think they have the same valuation appeal. we look at the old boring economy type thing >> lori, we have been hearing so much about the surging energy prices at what point does this become a headwind for either corporations or consumer? >> i think that's a great question we have to watch in this next reporting season what we see in terms of comments on energy prices i do think a lot of companies hedge. i don't think that's as big an issue as 5 or 10 years ago

i think it's more on consumers we did not see delays in the last reporting season. a lot of those delays to august. i do think consumers have ample cushion so they can absorb some of these hits, but it is clearly something we have to watch >> lori, great to see you. thanks for your time >> thanks for having me. >> guy, do you like the barbell approach, a little bit of each end. >> i like what she is putting down she does great work. my biggest concern continues to be margins are these companies, corporations, retailers, that have been able to pass on what are going to be higher costs to their end users. i am not sure that's the case. if margins come in, we have to question valuations. that's been my concern for a while. and we will see it manifest

itself in this earnings period we are about to embark upon. >> karen, if companies can't pass that onto the consumer, it's bad for the stock market, but if they do, then there is inflationary pressures it hurts one area and eventually translates back to stocks. >> that's a very good point, but i would also add that the consumer, to at the extent they are working, they are probably earning more so that is another part of the inflation chain, hourly wages going up. maybe we get in this spiral of up, up and passing the buck along. i am not sure which weighs the most if purr an excellent brand you are far more likely to be able to pass on whatever cost pressures may be, to the consumer coming up, what is going on

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welcome back to "fast money. we are following a money out of capitol hill where there is expected to be a vote about the debt limit >> senators are debating the debt limit on the floor. that will go on for a couple hours and the final vote is expected tonight mitch mcconnell promised he would promise they wouldn't block this but some were uncomfortable with this there are some requesting that there be 60 votes to make it pass president biden said we have to

see if the deal is done. i am not sure about it it is expected to pass this evening. after that it needs to head to the house. remember, this would raise the debt limit by $480 billion this is expected to last until about december 3, not coincidentally, that is the day the federal funding is about to run out. >> we need a debt clock. last time there was a huge rush in the form of safety in gold buying it soared 20% to its famous 2011 highs. not only is gold down 15% from its 2020 highs, but down more than 2% in the last month. similar crisis, totally different price action

is this gold losing its luster >> it's lost it. it's gone, over. the last time we had this crisis about a decade ago gold was trading about the same spot. we were talking about a barbell approach look at ten years on what has happened in gold we had a bit of run-up we did see a quality or safety or something like that where we had the pandemic, but what happened here is every incremental dollar is going into bitcoin. when you think about the potential to narrow that gap between the gold holdings globally which are north of 10 trillion and what bitcoin market cap is about a trillion. we are not going to trip the debt ceiling and get downgraded and all of that stuff. it's a lot of drama. but when you look at the gold chart over the last ten years

and the sovereign balance sheets, we have gone from 2 trillion to 8 1/2 trillion, there is no case to own gold i know i'm ticking off guy adame, but it's over, done >> it's amazing when i won't even say the can is kicked down the road is bitcoin the beneficiary people have made the case for so long the 10 trillion versus 1 tri trillion that's interesting. >> you are saying the 10 trillion of gold and 1 trillion of bitcoin >> no, came out of gold. >> with the commodity move i thought that was one of the

underpinning of the gold case. i have never quite understood gold i do think that because bitcoin is becoming sort of a valid asset class that people need to be invested in, some of that coming out of gold, that makes sense to me. i don't know if this is it, that's the move, but i don't get gold what has it done for you i don't get it >> it has done down 8% over the last year. guy, you dabbled in gold once upon a time a blue moon ago. >> yeah. we will book mark denim dan's call that it's over. there is a myriad of reasons, not the least of which we will get to see him in that denim

shirt for years to come. if gold got half of the money, it would be 10% higher you can do the math as can i central bank has been buying gold in record amounts i still will book mark the day that there was $53 million bars of gold. there are people that think like i do but the truth is that gold did not want to go higher. >> let's go to bertha. >> shares of allogene plummets 50% after hours, getting halted in extended trade after the fda put a clinical hold on trials of the company's cancer drug. there was a single report of a

chromosomal abnormality in a stage 4 lymphoma patient that was taking part in the trials. they expect an update after they consult with the fda in the coming weeks the stock taking a big hit and the stock was already down about 40%. we are just getting started. the china trade is back. alibaba surging after investment from a big investor. n't ils next dobe a square, but why analysts say this payment stock is a must own. we have that and more when "fast money" returns we now find that 85% of individual investors are interested in sustainable investing. among millennials, the interest is even stronger. ♪♪

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welcome back to "fast money. alibaba soaring more than 11%. there was an investment to make the stock soar tim, do you buy this bounce here >> charlie, understand the source charlie has always been a major china bull and said something along the lines the best companies are in china we are looking at regulatory filings from the first quarter to the fourth quarter, that's a lot of stock, but not necessarily a lot of stock relative to the market cap of the company. it's charlie munger. i think some of this extra call

it energy and nitrous behind the china moves has something to do with biden and xi planning a summit although the u.s. and china will have fundamental issues they will be on the opposite side of, there may be at least a relationship, a summit different than we saw under the last administration baba is still in a down trend. i think the thoughts there will be redistribution of assets is wrong. >> i think there is always hope things will follow between them. but a lot on the tech sector was because of beijing and not what the u.s. did to beijing.

so karen, is a lot of that nitrous is warranted, that things should be getting better for the tech sector? >> did you see the deal, a buyout of one of the chinese property owners who owns evergrande, so that, i am wondering if that was some of the excitement in the market i don't have a position in alibaba. i lost as much as i could lose it is not my slogan, but i think of whoever said that you don't need to make it back where you lost it. it's nice it held up, but i am not on that ride right now >> dan, what did you make of this bounce? >> it's interesting. before the chinese started to lean into their own companies, we were worried about doelisting

and some of the action here. to tim's point, some of the most innovative companies with a very captive audience, a large growing middle class in china where a lot of foreigners don't have access, it seems perfect except that these companies listed here, when they are done getting banged around by their own government, they have a round from ours. if alibaba rallied 15% or 20% it's still in a down trend i think something fundamental has to change before you dip your toe in. >> buffet are long-term investors. they could be increasing a stake and getting a slab of alibaba.

they are not looking for a payoff for decades i don't know if our audience has that time frame. >> nor do i. tim makes the right point. it could trade up to 175 and still be in a yearish down trend where we made a series of lower lows and lower highs when the stock traded down to 153 and rallied close on big volume, i thought that was it. for three or four trading days we were looking like geniuses. my sense is the same thing will happen here. we will have another conversation on a close above 180. >> tesla's annual meeting kicking off now. we will bring you any big headlines as they come in. plus a must-own stock, what one analyst is saying.

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welcome back to "fast money.

squaring jumping today analysts upgraded the stock. it is more than 20% higher than today's close. is square something you charge forward on forgive the pun. they are not mine. >> i think it is must-own long-term. but do you have to buy it at $250 it is on line with the nasdaq, up about 15% it has traded from 290 down to 151 over the last year yeah -- $115 billion market cap where earnings growth is expected to be up 20 or 25%. revenues grew last year. they accelerated they are only supposed to grow 20%. it's a valuation issue for a company that has 26% gross margins on the out year.

this is not a returning revenue name for me i think it is a must-own long-term. i am not sure you have to buy it here >> guy, are you off the phone? >> i don't know what is going on there is a ghost in the machine killing me maybe they are knocking me out of the box for you armchair technicians, there is a bit of a double top here you need to break it out on the upside i would rather wait on earnings in november. i think dan makes a good point >> ways to make a payment base you could go papal which is less than half the valuation of square at this point >> it's really -- square has done extraordinary things but it is all about valuation which is to dan's point they want to be your bank, small

business lender, send cash to people, and yet they have a multiple that doesn't reflect any kind of those businesses i love the payment space but i don't love the valuation jim cramer, named three other names. to find out go to the website or point your phone to the qr code. we are watching shares of tesla as the meeting gets underway but first a message from our own bertha coombs. >> we moved to the u.s. when i was 4. my dad felt that we just couldn't make a life in cuba came here for greater opportunity. that's something that has been engrained in me. you need to take risks and

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welcome back to "fast money. happening now, tesla kicking off its annual meeting let's get to phil lebeau and what we can expect >> the meeting started on time they are going through the business you usually see at annual meetings, voting on shareholder proposals. when we hear from elon usk, three things shareholders will be looking for him to touch upon about where the company is and headed with the new gigafactories ready? this is held at the one to be opened outside austin, texas and one to be opened up outside berlin, germany. they talked about the challenges

they have seen on supply chain and will the cyber truck delivery plan in place it has already been pushed back a bit. right now they have already exceeded the number of vehicles they delivered last year, which was a half million so far i think they have delivered 627,000. they have a shot at 900,000 although i don't see many analysts who expect them to hit that tesla has been a nice move over the last three to four months. you have seen the stock accelerating getting close to $800 a share this meeting doesn't always deliver news, but sometimes elon musk says a few things that does get attention. we will probably here from elon musk in about 10 to 15 minutes

phil lebeau. >> let's beginning in gene what is your number one question going into this meeting? and do you think you will get an answer >> i think it will be. when is cyber truck coming out as a quick refresher, pickup trucks account for 20% of u.s. sales. this is a big market that has been delayed that's my number one question. my number two question is around model two. this is their $25,000 car that they have teased at coming out it is tough to build a car, to purchase a new car for $25,000 they are going to try to do that when you put those two together and get a better sense with cyber truck and current lineup which is growing 1700% faster

than the rest of auto, you can start to build a case where this company can deliver on its goal. they started out the shareholder meeting by reiterating their goal of 20 million vehicles. >> how do you view tesla's goals, gene, the cyber truck as well as the lower cost car, in light of gm's bold target rate from yesterday and ford's plan for the f-150. it seems its competitors are going gung-ho on ev. this has to impact your margin >> getting to the core question around sustainability of this massive growth and potential they can grow at 50% compound for the next ten years

gm's comments. they have had a two-day analysts' day. they talked about doing $90 billion in nine years. tesla should be around $700 billion in ev revenue at that point. in other words, if you take gm's guidance and say they are going to achieve that guidance, their electric business will be 15% of the size of what tesla says. they are all estimates so proof is in the pudding. i would say as a company that has been around for a long time, general motors, understand their excitement around being an ev company, but the substance of the target falwell short the bottom line is they will be losing market share in the new ev world >> gene, for a long time we had

to sit and watch to see if elon musk was going to tweet, do something that could have a detrimental impact on the stock. it seems like we are well past that and i would submit it looks like he has grown into the job as ceo is that a position you share if it is, i think this is a stock that may take off to the $900 level or so >> i am always reluctant to predict what elon is going to do i think he is more ceo like. i do question how long he wants to do this job i would think it may be two more years as ceo and then three years as a chairman role i think space and mars is more compelling to him. but a breakout it's hard to predict a breakout when you have had the kind of

performance a tesla stock has had. but when you putthe pieces together, what the future products are, you can build the case this could be a much bigger company. >> gene, thank you we have talked about this before in terms of competing. you are talking about one of the best-selling vehicles around the states and world, the ford f-150, getting a ev is key, and the 2 is part of that, too >> you would think so. you have to give credit. to the extent that --again, th ev opportunity, everybody understands that i think right now it is a scaling issue.

tesla has to get further down the road even though major, major victories. the stock has been a bedrock of stability in a volatile market it's almost extraordinary when you look how un-volatile or be nine the movements have been in tesla when the rest of the market is having a difficult time i don't change mytune on the multiple not a buyer of tesla at these levels i think it shows a lot more profitability than yesterday it's still 155 times number. i think they will lose market share. i think this is as good as it gets in terms much the competitive landscape and i think they are closing fast. >> dan, you pointed this out, when it comes to tesla

it is supposedly growth year cutting edge company and tesla has held up. do you think that's because elon has a muzzle on? besides the ibu -- >> he is very deliberate about a lot of things that he says i think gene also mentioned the fact that he's focused on mars when you talk to him and it's not just a tesla conversation, they are sending satellites and returning rocket ships they are doing big, big things so i think he gets where he needs to be. for a guy with a trillion market cap company in tesla in the not too distant future, and what is

it on spacex is it trillions? maybe he won he may be ruler of the galaxy at this point it's him, he won >> so salty in that denim shirt. yesterday betting against e financials we have the other side of that when we return missed a moment? catch us on the go follow the "fast money" podcast. what happens when we welcome change? we can transform our workforce overnight out of convenience, or necessity. we can explore uncharted waters,

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welcome back to "fast money. a new 52-week high we were told about a big day of betting. and now mike has a big day of betting the opposite way take it away >> xlf traded about eight times its volume buyers of the call are betting that the rally we saw today could continue risking under 1.3% that the stock could rise by 2% going into next week

>> karen, you are getting nervous going into earnings? >> yes i feel like this is a terrible setup for banks. two or three weeks ago j.p. morgan was 152. earlier today it traded 172. $20 on j.p. morgan that's an all time high. bank of america also i think the setup isn't great. i like the banks, not like they are super frothy, but j.p. morgan had good numbers in january and april and july i think the bar is getting high. it's getting high enough that i think people might be disappointed i am staying long. i am not going to trade around it i have taxes to worry about and i don't know when i would get back in, but i am not that excited or hopeful we will see a big run in the banks next week

>> the action going in makes a big difference we have seen time and time again. >> i know you are a football fan and playbooks are a big thing. playbooks for banks, for karen's point she doesn't like the setup. for good reason. we have seen them sell off on the back she is spot on i think there will be an opportunity in the form of some of thesean bks they will trade at a discount to tangible book, citi being one of them up next, final trade ♪♪ ♪♪

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time for the final trade dan? levis will get it done 50% from its all time high >> tim >> a shirt only a mother could

love no, it looks good on you google it is going higher in the next couple days. >> thankfully we can't see with these cameras. i am sure you look fabulous, dan. i just wan >> the matching chaps must be very attractive. nasdaq, mel. >> "mad money" starts right now. >> my mission is simple, to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there is always a bull market somewhere and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now >> hey, i'm cramer welcome to "mad money. welcome to cramerica other pipeline want to make friends, i just want to make money. my job is to educate and teach you so call me at 800-743-cnbc or