good morning, stock futures looking to erase some overnight losses as we head directly into earning seasons, what's moving right now. j.p. morgan ceo jamie dimon says he still thinks that bitcoin is worthless but acknowledges his customers disagree. and more fall out for southwest as they cancelled 360 more flights yesterday when the carrier says they'll be completely back to normal. it's tuesday, october 12th, 2021, and "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. and andrew, welcome back >> thank you >> we're going to check -- >> it was just one day. >> i know. we missed you. you're back. >> it was columbus day.

>> one minute and we miss it. >> do we call it columbus day? >> yes >> i do. >> we do >> i did we do. if you want to look at the u.s. equity futures today, things are flat, dow futures up by only by about 3 points, s&p down by less than a point, nasdaq up by about 22. that's after back-to-back losses with friday's declines after the weak job numbers the declines about .7% for all three of the averages. the biggest drag on the dow yesterday was goldman sachs. the biggest drag for the s&p and nasdaq was amazon. we're watching this as we continue to watch oil prices as well wti the big story yesterday, wti and brent, oil prices chugging higher in fact, wti touched the highest level since 2014 it got up to $82.14 it settled at $80.52 that's

still the highest settle we've seen going back almost seven years ago. it was late october of 2014. andrew >> meantime, j.p. morgan's ceo jamie dimon making a prediction about the global shipping conference he said, quote, i should never do this but i'll make a forecast this will not be an issue next year at all. this is the worst part of it i think great market systems will adjust forit like companies have dimon's view contrasts from goldman sachs a day earlier when they downgraded the gdp forecast dimon said, quote, keep in mind the consumer is buying other stuff. they can't buy cars, they're buying home improvement. they can't travel internationally, they travel domestically the spend level is very high despite saying all of that, the one thing everybody seemed to

focus on was this, protest -- you know what, joe >> i see it. >> it's you. i don't want to steal your lines. >> you take off a day you have to get back into it, people's names, all that stuff. >> i didn't realize that -- >> i don't know what to say about this he's been saying it for a while. means there's some really stupid people out there that have done, you know, had some pretty good track records. despite protests he doesn't want to be the face of skeptics jamie dimon took the bait. >> i personally think that bitcoin is worthless but i don't care it makes no difference to me i don't think you should smoke cigarettes either. you know, but now it comes to like j.p. morgan i -- our clients are adults. they disagree, that's what makes markets. so if they wanted to have access to buy or sell bitcoin, we can't custody it, but we can give them

legitimate, as clean as possible access. >> he's smart. been around, very successful i'm sure he's seen the case made, i hope he's seen the case made by people that, you know, describe that it's been ledgers that we've used since the beginning of time and we've -- when cultures were separate, what you use the ledger for may have been a shell or something, and then as we went multi-cultural you had to find something agreed on, had ledgers qualities, it was transferrable. now you have something called block chain that represents something to distribute. when i said people that -- what i'm talking about people that know how to do this, or that have looked at it and have investigated it, i talk about the tutor joneses and the peter teals and the wingle vie and

everything assume jamie dimon has looked at it and read about it i seen plenty of people who haven't and pop off and have no idea what they're talking about. >> what's interesting was the thing he slid into that, we can't custody it meaning it's not going to be j.p. morgan's custody -- >> i thought he said we could do that. >> no he said we can't he said we can make it simple and easy to get it but we're not going to be responsible for it we're going to talk to aemom javers who did a report on people losing it he talked about it in the last hour, it's not money and the clearance house you're using is not a bank, not an exchange and they're not going to be responsible for it. >> some people like that. >> they do but there's no one to complain

to -- >> it's in one of those cramer investment club things who you are is one of those when you own bitcoin, you take a shot of it. you can do it for bitcoin or do it to join jim's club. what was i going to say? the other thing he said, it sounded similar to, it's going to be regulated. people are going to regulate it, china is going to be able to do it all of that is true. it's a heck of a -- if it is all worthless it's a heck of a bubble because it went from china problems to 41,000 and today it's back to 57,000. >> there's not inherent value. people will assign value to it and they have. look at it now, $56,000. there is an assigned value to it, but i think his point is, without people giving it that valuation, it wouldn't be there. >> what does have inherent value? >> if you want to look at energy, oil prices, oil does have an inherent value if you can do it.

>> that's true but things that we use for, you know, to represent something that has inherent value. >> the u.s. dollar doesn't have value unless you have faith in the u.s. government as well. >> there's art hunter biden's art has inherent value. >> to you. >> because it gets you access to the biden administration so that's a pretty good thing to be able to -- >> yeah. that and a room at the one of the trump hotels it's all available but you can get it as an eft now. >> you can't get hunter's art. i'm sure you can soon. let's get to an update on southwest airlines the company has cancelled more than 2,000 flights since saturday yesterday's total of 263 was down from about 1100 on sunday, but the carrier is grappling with worker short falls, backed planes and a busy flight

schedule company officials said they hope to return to normal tomorrow morning, the stock was down yesterday, today it's up about 33 cents we'll talk to an analyst at 6:30 a.m. eastern time. but this is an important story, people are trying to figure out what's happening and cnbc viewers get to hear from ceo gary kelly at 9:30 i don't want to miss the interview. there were more people trying to explain what happened. a guy in the last hour, a former pan am executive who dug into this and said these really are problems because they're so good at turning around their flights quickly and getting crews places when it comes down, it's like the just in time inventory, whe it falls apart it falls apart badly. >> if there's weather in florida, that's a problem. >> because everything goes through florida. >> there's a lot of issues there. >> how do you explain -- >> all of. >> -- how do you explain the

pilots writing in if you go on twitter and see what some of them are saying. is what the company saying -- >> that's -- >> it's a combination of all of it. >> i've watched them on cable. you figure if that company got money, they owe the world the vaccine, is that how it works? it's the company got money that stay in business, the pilots who flew through the pandemic need to get -- >> no. i'll say it because i know we have to go the pilots took money from the company while they were not flying that's the point they were not flying they begged for money, said they needed to be paid while they were not flying because they did not have a job during the time they took the money and said we, the taxpayer, had to pay them and save them, because it would help society. >> the pilots said it? >> the pilots, the flight aten dans, the airlines, all said please taxpayer give us money to help society now we're in the moment where we're trying to help society and

they're saying we don't want to do it. >> so they need to -- >> that's the whole reason we paid >> they need to get the vaccine -- >> we're going to continue this conversation >> that's the whole concept. >> when we come back, we have dr. scott gottlieb we'll talk more with him in a moment

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texas governor greg abbott issued an order last night banning covid vaccine mandates including for private companies. for more let's turn to dr. scott gottlieb, a cnbc contributor and sits on the boards of pfizer and alum na. has a book out called "uncontrolled spread why covid-19 crushed us and how we can defeat the next pandemic". where do we stand right now on the pandemic and what does it mean when you have the governor of texas saying no covid vaccine mandates when you had the president issuing his own orders saying everyone with 100 employees has to mandate it or get tested what's the concern now. >> i'm concerned about the political implication of vo vaccines becoming the thing that divides us politically voters are not going to be able to make the distinction between

a mandated veen and not taking any vaccine. we'll see the fight over vaccines bleed into other realms, vaccination for children, for flu, we'll see vaccination rates decline across the country. i don't think governors should be stepping in from blocking private businesses imposing mandates if it's the only thing they think can protect their workers or customers just like i don't think the government should be stepping in saying they have to mandate vaccinations if we leave this to local decision making by businesses and local authorities that would be optimal we're not going to do that we're a long way from that this is a political football and we have the administration running against governors on this mandate and governors running for president on the next cycle on the issue of vaccination. i think long term that's corrosive to our public health experts. >> we're not just talking about covid vaccines at this point this is going to spread to other

vaccinations we have seen diseases like measles that we thought we wiped out in the 1980s, you didn't think you would see it until it started recirculating. there have been arguments over vaccine mandates going back to before this country was formed whengeorge washington was making his troops get inoculated for smallpox and back then there was a 3% fatality rate for people getting a smallpox vaccine because at that point it was taking the puss out of a smallpox pus yule and forcing it into a cut >> we accept vaccine mandates in a lot of context, we accept the childhood immunization schedule and vaccines are required for children to attend school, the flu vaccine is mandatory in health care workers. so there are mandates in a lot of settings of private life and

we've come to accept it and people by and large in this country support vaccination. i think now this has become something that is going to define people politically and you see political leaders literally running on their support or their opposition for vaccines and vaccine mandates. again, i don't think a lot of voters are going to nuance this as much as we are, as much as the politicians are and make a distinction between a requirement to get the covid vaccine and the idea of getting the covid vaccine at all and a requirement to get any other vaccine and just the idea of getting vaccinations so a lot of people are going to walk away from this with the assumption that this is something the government is going to tell you what to do and they're going to oppose it that's going to have an affect ultimately i would suspect we'll see vaccination rates come down across the board i've been warning my colleagues we need to watch what the consequences are of our actions.

we want to -- 78% of adults right now with at least one shot, each increment we gain comes at a cost and we need to look at those costs in terms of what we do culturally to ourselves. >> where do we stand covid cases are coming down, it's a significant decline. >> i wouldn't conclude that things are over, things are necessarily getting better nationally cases nationally are coming down because of declines in big statements like texas and florida which is masking a dense epidemic across the midwest and west right now you are seeing cases tick up in the north as the cold weather comes on. so i think the delta wave isn't over, it'll be until thanksgiving but there are other states, smaller populations not bringing up the national averages i think we'll see a plateau as the sharp declines in the south

run their course and we see cases pick up in other parts of the country. >> thanks very much. great to see you we'll talk to you soon. coming up a major company rethinking return to work plans. what amazon just told its employees. as we head to break, a look at banks ahead of tomorrow's kickoff to earning season. "sawbo cinrit ck quk x"omg ghba s could enter themselves? that's why i get up in the morning! i have a secret method for remembering all my hr passwords. my boss doesn't remember approving my time off. let's just... find that email. the old way of doing business slows everyone down. with paycom, employees enter and manage their own hr data in one easy-to-use software. visit paycom.com for a free demo. thanks for coming. now when it comes to a financial plan this broker is your man. let's open your binders to page 188... uh carl, are there different planning options in here?

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welcome back amazon giving its employees more flexibility to work from home even after offices begin to open next year. in a memo, the ceo said the

company would leave it up to individual team directors to see how they come together some will come together to work in the office, some remotely and some a hybrid schedule it's a change from an earlier plan that most were expected to return to the office for at least three days a week beginning january 3rd. the ceo said a one size fits all policy didn't work for a company the size and scale of amazon cnbc's at work summit returns tomorrow with a packed line of executives you can register right now at cnbc events.com/worksummit and that conversation will be part of the discussion tomorrow. i'm going to be discussing this issue and more with we work. in the wake of a cnbc investigation into stolen crypto cur currency, one trading platform boosted its customer service but many say that didn't go far enough

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welcome back tuesday morning and we're looking at futures again, a little more movement than half ap hour ago. after two down days in a row, between monday and friday's losses the nasdaq is higher this morning up about 15 points after being down 93 points yesterday this morning evergrande reportedly missing another round of interest payments to international bondholders. this is the third time they were due to take three payments totaling $148 million by midnight but investors have yet to receive any funds

evergrande originally missed a crucial $83.5 million interest payment late last month, that missed payment triggered a 30 day grace period before the company formally results it's now missed at least five bond interest payments and this is putting pressure on not only china evergrande but the larger chinese bond market also. as crypto investing has skyrocketed so have problems in keeping the investments safe customers of coin base, the company's largest crypto platform are angry with the company's customer support which is supposed to provide help. here's e amon javers with an investigation. >> eric and molly richardson said they saved nearly $1.1 million in a coin base account. but then in july eric got an later on his phone the message said someone logged

onto their account he clicked on the text, logged in and received an email that their two-step authentication had been changed. >> he was in a state of shock. i tried to help him, stay calm i looked up coin base online trying to figure out how to get ahold of customer service. >> like thousands of other customers they say they got nowhere when they tried to get immediate help because the company didn't offer any kind of live phone support, email was the only option. >> within the 20 minutes that we sent the email somebody had done 110 different transactions sending out about 21 bitcoin >> reporter: in all, the hackers stole some $700,000 of the couple's savings they're not the only ones. as cnbc reported in the august, cryptocurrency holders across the country have been victimized by hackers who drain their accounts

and then they can't get anyone on the phone to resolve the issue. coin base said in august it set up a phone number for customers to call if their account had been taken over. that doesn't seem to fix the problem. customers told us the live support was useless, a joke, and only for accounts that are actively locked. so we wanted to see what would happen when the richardsons called the new customer support line. >> i'm going to call and see if i can get my account finally unlocked and maybe should i ask if they will give me my money back >> reporter: a coin base agent does answer. >> i got locked out of my account about two months ago and i haven't been able to get back in, somebody stole 21 bitcoin out of it. >> reporter: the agent told richardson he doesn't have access to his case file instead saying he should respond to a coin base email he responded to. a spokesperson said we recognize the challenges some of our customers have experienced with dhar coin base accounts.

improving our customer experience continues to remain a top priority eric said his biggest disappointment is not doing more to protect his accounts. one option he considered but didn't follow-up on was a hardware device used for cold storage of cryptocurrencies. >> i beat myself up every day i have my friends' voices in my head, put it on cold storage and i didn't. >> reporter: nicole says cold storage is virtually hack proof. you get a private key, like a password, to buy and sell crypto and you store it offline. >> when you keep your funds in the cold storage you own those funds. you have access to them. they're off line, away from hackers. >> reporter: of course the problem with even that solution is owners can lose their passwords or something can go wrong with the you device

itself soon after our interview, coin base restored access to their accounts and received credit but nowhere near what they lost, just $500 worth of bitcoin. >> that's what made me think is there anybody senior at coin base looking at this. >> reporter: coin base told the richardsons it won't refund the savings because the company was not responsible for the hack customers have filed more than 12,000 complaints against the company. and an additional 1,500 complaints have been filed since our story aired in august, most of those over customer service. >> they got 500 buck, that's it. i'm surprised. >> reporter: yeah. >> are you a little surprised by that i would have thought that coin base would have wanted to try to make good or as good as can you make on a situation like this just because i would think it presents problems. maybe in an environment bitcoin is going up -- >> the first thing i did while he was doing that, i looked up

the market cap of coin base. because you cannot have a $38 billion company if you don't get this under control you can't have your coins at coin base and expect that my million dollars is safe if it's not. what if it -- people can -- >> it isn't coin base's fault. >> they can hack bank of america -- >> but this guy let this guy in -- >> if someone -- >> that's why i said it's important that jamie dimon said we're not going to take custody. that's the scary thing >> the banking system has worked all this stuff out going back decades, even 100 years, the bonny and collide era. if your money is stolen from a bank, you as the individual customer of the bank are not on the hook for that. the money would be, in that case, taken out of the bank by bonny and clyde, so the analogy isn't the same here where coin

base is saying it wasn't our fault your phone was hacked. but the banking industry came up with solutions and government insurance to prevent this from happening so people would have confidence in the banks and that doesn't exist in crypto. >> is anybody in washington talking about creating the -- i don't know if it's the fdic or something that would provide an insurance program for the different -- i don't know if you call them brokers, bank or storage facilities, if you will. >> there's a lot of ideas kicking around, but in terms of practical action it's just very early days right now we're not seeing anything on the verge of coming to fruition. >> is that something pushed by crypto companies that want to create an insurance program like this or don't they want to create an insurance program like this because it's going to cost them more. >> reporter: there are a lot of theorists talking about this and firing ideas back and forth but you don't see anybody coalescing around a real proposal that's

going to move. there's questions about who regulates this so they have to sort out the turf war first you think we're a long way away from seeing any solution here. and crypto investors have to bear in mind there's this risk out here it happens to a lot of people. your account can be drained if the you click on the wrong link on your phone. and a lot of people are new to this they don't know what that link is going to look like and then that happens and people can't get anybody on the phone to talk about it. >> can you weigh on jamie dimon's comments about bitcoin being worthless and i think becky made the point that he also said they can't take custody of it. can a bank take custody, if they wanted to, of bitcoin? >> that's an interesting question with the regulations that are in place, i don't know the answer to that. one of the interesting things is you saw that piece about cold storage in the piece that we just ran, right.

those devices you can put your cryptocurrency on to keep them away from the internet so hackers can't get at them. the risk becomes you might lose your cold storage device, you put it in a drawer, your dog eats it, so what are people doing with cold storage devices, a lot of them are putting them in safety deposit boxes in banks. full circle. >> that's what i would do. put it in a bank. >> and your password in a second safety deposit box >> $50 million you do not leave it at coin bit >> that's what i mean. >> there's got to be -- >> i don't want it living on a thumb drive either how many thumb drives do you have that it doesn't work after six months zero >> i have a dog, a guinea pig and a two-year-old in my house, so those thumb drives are walking around all the time, totally dangerous. >> eamon javers, thank you very much. >> what's the maximum you leave in coin base

you can't put $10 million in coin base. >> what would you do >> i don't know what the --'s in a what i'm saying, how can it be -- you know, they need to get it together if they have a viable business worth $38 billion. >> if you're going to be trading it you want it on a service that allows you -- there's the easy use of trading, you need to trade if that's what you're in the business of doing. this is why people want more institutional facilities -- >> do you think you have to be -- >> coin base probably has the most institutional of the facilities. >> the thing that you click on, is it obvious to anyone with a brain that you shouldn't click on this? >> no. >> the scam was a scary one. >> i get phishing things all the time and i have to stop myself >> and the guy said he got p panicked because they said somebody has broken into your two-link authentication, let's get in touch and make sure we fix it i can imagine, when you think i have over $1 million, you think i got to take care of this, i

got to resolve it. it's really difficult to get somebody on the phone there. the scammers know that and they're taking advantage of it. >> the irs called me once -- >> i remember. >> i know. they never call. you need to know that. they don't now once andrew gives them money they may be calling. coming up southwest shares fell more than 4% yesterday after the airline cancelled more than 2,000 flights since saturday more on that story next. should have given the airline bailout money to the irs why didn't we do that? becky, am i right? that's what we should have done. e risk and reward, i see one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. your strategic advantage.

southwest airlines shares flat this morning after a drop yesterday of more than 4%. the airline has cancelled more than 2,000 flights since saturday joining us now is steven trent, citi group airline analyst it's gotten, like so many things, i watch certain networks and they're interviewing a lot of pilots saying we aren't getting the vaccine. but then i see the company itself, i see other people that are in the know saying it has very little to do with that and more to do with unexpected jump on columbus day travel, a quicker return, weather, we

always here about air traffic control issues, are any of those real i say there's no weather, what is it? air traffic control issues okay we can't check. >> certainly and look, when something like that goes wrong, when an airline cancels one quarter of its flights it's usually not one thing going wrong, probably it's several things going wrong at the same time. so do you have any potential issues on the labor side because you don't have enough people or people call in sick. it's conceivable that's part of the issue. but how much slack do you have in the system, and how tight a ship are you actually running so that if there is some operational disruption, you know, it can snowball, depending on how you tighten your set up for a particular week, for example. >> when i was listening to some of the pilots, they point out, stephen, if 10% of the pilots

were to -- i don't know, what do you call it, a blue flu, that's one name i guess that's when police do it but a sickout. if 10% do it, on the margin that's enough to cause what we've seen at southwest airlines do you think there's anything to that the pilots seem to be threatening this action is going to continue because at least in his opinion he was anti-mandate. but is that what's going on? why southwest? we did see spirit and other airlines with more minor issues that didn't see to have to do with mandates necessarily. >> yeah, sure. i think that's exactly one of the reasons, you know, i would highlight that there's a danger of that element to the market oversimplifying the situation. 10% of the pilot pilots taking

action, that's a big piece of the force, presumably that's true, that can have an impact on operations if you look at this weekend, spirit airlines had a great deal of difficulty over the summer and then over the weekend, the cancellation rate for them was around 4%. so they had little slack in their system in the summer you had this surge of people traveling and you're trying to get pilots back, get them in flight simulator time, and then back into the cockpit. you know, spirit airlines, i think from what we can tell from this past weekend's flight cancellations now does have sufficient slack in its system to avoid these kind of issues. but if you do get a weather delay in one place, not enough pilots show up at another, you can look a week forward and you thought you'd have a flight crew

in baltimore and that's not going to be there now because an earlier flight got cancelled but i'd be reticent to boil it down to labor action by some, for example. >> long term do the airlines have an issue with pilots? there are early retirements, normal retirement, it takes quite a bit of training and time to fly -- you would hope -- to put two people in the cockpit. so it -- a year from now, two years from now, he was indicating there could be really big problems pilot shortage >> great question. i mean, that is indeed something that's been ban terred around the industry as a particular problem. presumably at the moment there are not enough people going to flight school. when we think about retirements coming up in the next couple of years, it's one of the problems

does seem to be the potential lack of -- they're going to have pilots for not clear how they're going to deal with that unless we get to robot planes, that's probably years down the road, there is potential for a labor issue. >> not a financial question, stephen, but maybe a question about society. i'm getting both a lot of love and hate from our viewers this morning on this particular issue. i've made the argument, which you may or may not know at this point, that the airlines, taxpayers, gave the airlines and gave the pilots and flight attendants an extraordinary amount of money to stay working even when they weren't flying during the pandemic. and they made the argument the taxpayers needed to pay them that money, especially for the airlines, because it was a benefit -- an economic benefit and broader benefit to society to have the airlines in

business southwest happened to be the first profitable airline to return to profit in part as a function of the taxpayers. and so, i have expressed a sense of frustration, as have others, that now we're in a situation where the pilots are saying we don't want to be vaccinated. and obviously a lot of the health care and science community would say getting vaccinated is going to help society in the same way that taxpayers tried, i think, to help society by keeping them in business does that make sense >> great question. i think this is an extremely delicate, intricate issue. i can see there's plenty of science behind the benefits of getting vaccinated and our society where, in many cases you can't force people to do things, you know, how do you go about this even before most people had heard of covid-19, labor issues

were a delicate thing with the airlines pilots unions in the united states have a great deal of power. in terms of the taxpayers angle here, i think that democrats and republicans realize that the airlines are important to long-term commerce in this country which is why they got all that taxpayer money. as we move forward, and as we recover in if fits and starts, are they going to be bumps as we move out of this pandemic, absolutely and this is one of those big bumps, presuming that elements of society don't want to get vaccinated and how do we do it i think, industry and government still trying to sort that out. >> stephen, it is complex. i'm not sure, is he with you or not, i can't tell?

>> i think he was very politics. he went right down the middle there. >> he did. thanks, stephen. coming up when we return, it is hard to believe but earning season is here the big bank reports start rolling in tomorrow. we'll get you adrey next "squawk box" coming back after this

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welcome back to "squawk box. a countdown to earnings season is on with major banks reported due over the next threedays. joining us is gabry sell santos, global market analyst strategist, a markets reporter, money and investing team, good morning to both of you i will start with you. what should we be expecting. do you want to own some of these big banks coming into earnings >> so for the earnings season overall, we should be expecting another very strong number third highest earnings growth

since 2010, second highest revenue growth third highest margin so it should be very strong overall. i think the question mark for investorss is how much does it decelerate town larger versus the second quarter peak. how much can surprises continue to deliver i think that's really the question mark. so the attention is much more on what's happening with margins. how much are businesses able to pass on higher input costs of goods, of labor, of commodities. in terms of banks, in particular, of course, kicking things off tomorrow, i think the financial sector in particular has had a big rally in banks over the past months, several percentage out performance, that's about better margins, better loan growth, really the focus is on whether it does

expect that or not we expect it will. a broader macroread-through, are sheets solid which will push back against this narrative. overall, we expect it to be positive on both fronts. >> that's an interesting point you had the banks make a big run. i think that has less to do with what we are squaring over the next few days. how do we square those numbers around inflation >> that's right, the financial sector has done really well. we will get a look at how the u.s. consumer is doing i think the consumer has been incredibly strong. i think zooming out what we're looking for in terms of earnings is how are corporations dealing with these global bottlenecks, from china, to vietnam how are they dealing with these higher prices and labor shortage, that's the key thing to watch in the next few weeks. >> what companies in particular

will you be watching to better understand which direction this is all headed? >> you know what i found really interesting is we did see a few company's reports, nike, for example, said fit weren't for supply chain issues, its sales would have been even higher, fed-ex said its biggest issue is labor. those are the companies to watch. so far, investors punish those companies after their earnings, nike felt some 5%, fed-ex fell some 10% after its earnings. >> gabriela, if terms of what you're going to be looking for in the same kind of category, what company is going to be that symbol to you a signature fifire of where this is all headed n. are you in the camp of your boss jamie dimon on supply cane issue, he thinks it will be the place to go in. >> both supply disruptions, both in goods and labor, we'll be looking at industrial and the retail sector.

those are ones that tend to feel it the most. those are the companies we will be looking at. other sectors are not expected to feel as much of a pinch, it will be a bigdown size we feel of effects down in the bottom line, specifically industrials and retails. those are the kind of sectors where actual company selections are extremely important. you need to figure out which companies can pass on these higher prices or not n. terms of supply isruptions, we think they'll work themselves out over time they are proving longer lasten than we had expected because of the pandemic effect. both factory production in asia and labor around the world we think cases are coming down around the world vax nace progress is improving we're acquiring natural immunity and lastly we have immune on

anti-virals. >> gabriela, thank you is bitcoin worthless >> i'll take jamie dimon's position in that, our clients are interesting in bitcoin so we have been talking to them about, it fits in a portfolio. the truth is, it's still early days they have unstable correlation, so a very small percentage of allocation. >> we got to leave it there, thanks, guys, talk to you soon >> when we come back, southwest is facing more trouble yesterday now having canceled more than 2,000 flights since saturday the southwest pit'unlos ion is joining uss to talk about what is behind the log jam. we'll be right back. you're driving innovation. you're racing to the cloud. you need to do it securely.

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futureing s pointing to a hr day on wall street we'll tell you what to watch plus, we're keeping an eye on oil prices, energy shortages around the globe pushing prices to multi-year highs. we'll take a closer look at the noble energy crisis. and continued fallout for southwest airlines at mass weekend cancellations. we will speak to the pilot's association ahead of what could be a turbulent day for flyers and investors. the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now

remember go, welcome back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc, i'm andrew ross sorkin take a look at u.s. equity futures at this hour some two-and-a-half hours before we are set to open on a tuesday morning the dow up 26 points, nasdaq 41 points higher. the s&p 500 looking to om open 4 points higher. a couple big headlines, house members head back to the hill to vote on the debt limit increase. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell warning there will not be help when the temporary measures expire. that will happen in early december the problem is continuing for southwest airlines, which canceled about 10% of its flights on monday following the skrang of 28% of flights over the weekend. southwest blaming staffing issues and bad weather but some workers say it's the result of mismanagement.

later this hour, phil le beau with speak with southwest head casey murry and gary kelly will join the gang on "squawk on the street" at 9:30 eastern time, later, we will get a fresh read, last month's report showing a record number of unfilled jobs in the u.s economists expecting more of the same this time around as companies continue to struggle, of course, to fill some open positions. >> it's that time, dom chu what's moving in the pre-market? >> let's kick things off with a dow component. we're watching shares of nike off a percent in the pre-market trades, 10,000 shares of volume, the athletic apparel and shoe giant gets initiation over goldman sachs. analysts say buy it's a 172 price target to buy

they show a macro-industry backdrop and a much more directco consumer business that stock is down roughly 14% over the course of its period from the highs to the recent lows here. so just watching kind of what's happening there. next up, shares of square you were 1.5% of pre-market volume tin tech gets over88 atlantic equities they have a $300 brand positions, also growth opportunities with the buy now, pay later acquisitions that stock pulled back by 20% of its recent highs, square against moves here down 20%, a tracker place to buy things by the way, check out what's happening right now with bitcoin prices we can see there 57,169. it's only about three-quarters of 1% of the downside. it's a far away from july. we're up roughly 93% in bitcoin

prices from that july low, depending the on which measures, obviously, a lot of exchanges change this crypto currency, still an interesting move after it lost more than half of its value earlier this year to summer lows. >> rapid moves, both directions. >> exactly >> dom, thank you. in the meantime, imf and world bank meetings are kicking off against the backdrop of a major deal changing global tax rules kayla tausche is here. good morning. >> reporter: good morning, becky. that's right 136 nations have negotiated a sweeping overhaul of tax rules reaching an agreement with a 15% minimum tax of a certain size, that will raise money from multi-nationals, the second 25% of profits above a 10% profit margin for large companies where they don't have a physical

presence and there is an agreement in principle to roll back existing taxes that penalize facebook, apple and alphabet and block new so-called digital service taxez until 2024 senior treasury officials say that tariffs on some $2 billion in european and british goods scheduled to take effect november 29ing will now be cancelled because of that agreement. president biden is formally expected to agree with these principles with g-20 counterparts in rome each count i's legislature must approve them congress will pass the minimum tax and social spending package but will need a few bill with bipartisan support that's 67 votes for this digital tax countries are hoping to see that language in mid-2022 to take effect in 2023 but, becky, those dates might come quickly considering how much has to be done. >> the idea you have 136 nations

to sign off based on their administration official who's are going along with it is one thing. trying to get it to move through all the legislatures i mean, that sounds like an almost impossible task and if you have a legislature here or there that doesn't ratify it, what happens as you try to keep a cobbling effect together >> well, that's still a big question that is up in the air, becky. these negotiation among oecd countries took six years to get to the point of this agreement now you actually have to put the fine print together. the framework they released friday doesn't include a lot of fine print because of that very reason the legislatures have to write the laws, themselves they can differ slightly the one thing that could be a hangup here in the u.s. is if lawmakers decide that they want that tax on big tech companies or that profit sharing agreement overseas, if they want that to

include also some competitive regulation of those companies, too, to cobble that altogether into one law, that would be even more complicated we'll see how they attack it next year. >> even signing off and ratifying this, the i heard leaders, some administration official who's have said things like well it shouldn't apply to the banks in our country i think it was in the uk where they were saying that all right. and the moment that they were saying they agreed to it already saying we want to make sure it doesn't affect the big businesses in our country. >> yeah. there will be carve-outs and carveups for the supply stream who it applies to, doesn't apply to it won't apply to extractive companies so oil and gas or financial services companies, but, of course, those are broad buckets and we'll see who that actually applies to. >> kayla, thank you. we'll see you soon. coming up, united masters

gives musicians and artists the ability to distribute music to all major streaming services now those making music can get paid via crypto currency details after the break. later a tush leapt few days for southwest ahead of the southwest pilots association injos us in a bit. "squawk box" will be right backe southwest pilots association joins us in a bit. "squawk box" will be right back joins us in a bit. joins us in a bit. "squawk box" will be right backd to support the independent financial advisors who are passionately dedicated to helping people achieve their financial goals. visit findyourindependentadvisor.com

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welcome back to "squawk box," united masters is partnering with coin base, they will enable artists to get paid with crypto. joining us right now first on cnbc is united masters and translation ceo steve stout. good morning to you. >> good morning. >> we have not seen each other in person, it's been a long time, let's talk about this big announcement this morning. >> i am super excited. the evolution of what we've done, the legacy label who's have always had their fair share of success and not making sure the artistgot paid, now the artist with new partnership will be paid in crypto. they have that option. >> yes let's explain this to everybody. you created a platform that

bypasses the labels, you have a partnership with tiktok and others. >> yeah. >> now for the first time, instead of accepting cash, you are accepting crypt as to. >> we're paying out if crypt as to we've seen we have 1.4 million artists on the platform and we've watched the rise of them getting paid, payment optionality has been a big thing. right. now, they're asking to get paid in crypt as to so partnering with the best in class, which is coinbase allows artists to get paid with fiat government country cy or crypto currency. >> how much is about the artist wanting to get paid versus the customer wanting to pay in crypt as to. >> well, we are paying the artist so we are take money through apple music and spotify and converting it. >> you will convert it into

crypto so this is less of -- examiner demand are there people wanting to pay crypt to at the moment >> i'm not sure about that my job at united nationalists is to create fictional things for the artists, what are the things that make them happy what we kept saying is they want to be absent in crypto so we decide we had to find the best partner to do it. >> and the plan is to pay them in bitcoin, eterrium, something else >> they have that option a thousand products to choose from. >> how much does this relate to the world of nfts and people are thinking of music as nfts? that's a separate issue? >> it's a separate opportunity okay that, you know, what's taken place in crypto and block chains and nfts are unlocking value for artists. so typically, artists they have

to find a record company in order to find an audience. now they find an audience before they find a record company so they can retain their rights, get paid in different, choose how they want to get paid and always maintain control, own their future, which is something that has never taken place historically in the music business >> in terms of what's happened to concerts and the like, how has it changed the dynamic around both leed needing a label. not leed needing a label i would assume it was great for your business? >> labels are closed listen to this, it's unbelievable now artists have to wait six months to get paid. when you look at the invoice and the statement, the transparency, car, ride, this, that and the third, you have to unpack it i've never seen an artist do an audit and fought make money, they pay you this makes it transparent, makes

it easy and allows you to get paid. >> how does the business, i feel for a lot of artists, you have to be an influencer, meaning a part of a business is something else now. >> you have to treat artists like small business, they are small businesses, we've created them a platform in order to operate this small business, whether it's macrohomes or payment options or distribution. we need to create those to treat them like a small business. >> what's the biggest artist on your platform? an artist is toby from nigeria, who lives in houston, texas and is tremendously successful a great talented guy, he will do a little dance to it >> when we think about the biggest artists of our time. >> yeah. >> what does it take to get them on the platform? when you think of that one

artist who you wish would be on the platform, who would it be? >> well, there is a lot of great artists. everyone would like to have drake on that platform he's the biggest streaming artist in the world. the record companies will pay somebody like that a fortune of money. >> right. >> because if they leave, the whole thing falls apart f. drake left a legacy system, the legacy business ends, everyone realizes you don't need a record company. >> you think they are overpaid by certain labels? >> for a fact. that happens all day every day you got a kid that will walk into a record company and get $3 million at 16-years-old because they want to make sure they overpay him so he wouldn't go to an independent label like that's what they do now that's their mote. >> you want to weigh in on britney spears >> on her father >> no, yeah, what's going on with that whole situation? >> it's been a mess for a while.

i mean, look - >> the business wasn't known as the mess it's become >> i think in the business people knew what was going on, everybody was making so much money, no one dealt with the issue. the underlying thing here is a mental problem that somebody needed to address. when there is so much money involved, fortunately, even family members will do not the right thing when they can benefit from it. so it's a sad thing to be honest with you and something that cob avoided if company swepd in and said i will forego money in order to deal with this mental health issue >> we need to get her on masters. are you a crypto, investor, yourself >> in. >> i invested if coin base, yes, i did. >> you own a lot of bitcoins, etherium if. >> i invested z in coin base early, that feels great. that's working out, but no i believe in crypto for the long run with >> so you are on the other side,

you are jamie dimon? he was worthless in. >> he's been wrong, he's right about most things. you don't have to talk about everything >> steve, great to see you >> appreciate it >> thank you coming up, when we return, it could be another tough day for flyers and investors when we peek to president of the southwest pilots' association. gary kelly will be with thgae ng on "squawk on the street" at 9:30 a.m we'll be right back after this buried in receipts, invoices and

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amazon is giving its employees more flexible from home even as they gen to open next year. in a memo, they said they would leave it up to individual team directors and decide how long the work verse to come into the office some will work mostly remotely some in the office and some a hybrid schedule. it's a change from an earlier plan that said most corporate employees were expected to return to the office three days a week starting january 3rd. he said our one size fits all policy doesn't work for a company of amazon's size, joe, i know this is a little off topic.

since we are talking amazon, i have to ask if you saw a tweet from jeff bezos yesterday, somebody tweeted a picture of planet of the apes and said we should all dress like this when shatner comes back from space. bezos responded and said, i'm game it has made me laugh out loud, i have been watching planet of the apes at home >> the old one >> the mark wahlberg one. >> once again, the benefit of haven't seeing is original and the shocker at the end >> there is the tweet. >> i guess i shouldn't let anyone know they were on >> you already did >> when they see the statue of liberty, it's sort of oh my god, we have been here the whole time i don't want to give it away well, how do you, you know do you follow jeff bezos?

how many people do you follow now, becky >> i did follow jeff bezos yeah >> i can follow you. >> i follow you and i follow andrew, i follow a lot of people i think i follow a few more than you do >> we all wear the same blue 30, all i do are ties. you have to do some interesting things and yesterday someone liked, thought you had. >> i think they were like what is up with the dress she was wearing. i thought it was a few hours >> i thought it was a great look yesterday. >> somebody pointed out, nobody ever saidr says what men are wearing. by the way, i graduated from a check high school. i like having a uniform, not having to pick anything out.

>> no, they don't talk about they talk about how i look my moves >> thank you, misery loves company, thanks for making me feel better. >> i node a broeg. still no come, southwest airlines, we will talk the president of southwest airline policy association that's later, the latest on the global energy crisis you are watching "squawk box" on cnbc they have a better finance system than we do. i feel like they might have a better finance system than we do. workday. how do they make better decisions faster? workday. it's got to be something workday. i think i got something. work... hey, rob, you're on mute. hello! hey, rob, there he is. workday. the finance, hr and planning system for a changing world.

welcome back to "squawk box. the faa saying there is no evidence that a protest against a covid mandate was behind the forced cancellation of thousands of airline flights over the weekend. phil lebeau joins us with more on that story and our next guest. good morning >> good morning, andrew, let's bring in captain casey pary the president of the southwest airline pilots association, swapup for swapa for short. they are coming down a little

bit every day. when do you expect the satellite schedules to be back-to-normal so-to-speak? >> i think we will start getting back-to-normal operations later today and into tomorrow. >> so you expect by later today/tomorrow, no doubt, the last couple days have people wondering, can they rely on this not to happen again with southwest airlines especially as we head towards the travel season, which could be busier than we've seen this last weekend what's your sense in terms of can this be avoided again? >> well, the best part of our issue is what we haven't seen through the summer when we saw the same kind of meltdown into this weekend this happy birthday going on for a couple years we haven't seen a proactive statement from the company addressing what is causing this domino effect to take three, four, five days to recover in the summer it was two or three months so we'd like to see, there are issues with internal processes on how reassignments occur,

within the scheduling system of pilots and flight attendants and there is it it issues with that as well. we want to see southwest address it so it's taken care of and we don't have to worry about the going into next weekend or, heaven forbid, the holiday season >> casey, you and i have talked about this at length we're not going too deep too the woods, in layman's terms, so our audience understands, what is the problem with the scheduling situation with southwest airlines particularly with flight crews that caused this to happen once they had a series of cancelled flights because of weather friday night >> southwest has an extremely complex network. it's deeper than the spears our peers v. when we see recovery taking place, where we're seeing the nailier is, whatever identified over four years ago sort of this problem of these cascading reassignments of

pilots, where one pilot is taken off a perfectly good trip. he has to be replaced. someone else has to replace that pilot that replaces him. it is an ongoing we've provided many solutions and it needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. >> what solutions have you offered? it seems like a no brain fer you are in manage vlt and your pilots are saying, we've got a solution here, unless the solution is to cost the company a lot of main and pay you some more, why would they accept the solutions you offer? >> it's not what we're pushing for, it's more efficiency. we're the most productive pilots in the industry. what we want to see is more efficient scheduling that goes on during these irregular operations so what we've offered is solutions that address the core problem, which is how these cascading reassignments occur.

we've offered i.t. solutions, which is electronically doing some of these things and notifying our piles. our piles come out on off days they're the most productive. they're out there trying to help the airline recover. but there are numerous ways that i.t. could help as well as some of their internal processes. >> hey, casey, just what would you sa i to customer who's are thinking about book ac flight? 28% of southwest flights were cancelled over the weekend, which is fought great odds if you are hoping or planning on taking a vacation or doing anything what would you suggest because the problem that you are describing does not sound like it will be an easy fix i'm not sure i feel confident doing a southwest flight in the next week or over the holidays what would you tell them to think, okay, i could book that flight >> well, from the pilots point of view, i'm very proud of our pilots our pilots have gone above and

beyond to pick up that additional flying. our pilots are continuing to pick up on their off days and support the operation. i will tell our commerce, we will be there and we will do everything possible to make sure the operation runs as smoothly and efficiently as possible. >> hey, casey. i know that you and the airline have said that this is not related to protesting vaccine mandates, but the union did sue effectively to block is up a mandate. can we discuss that for a moment because i think there is a question about what the role of pilots should be as you know pilots were a beneficiary during the pandemic, the airline and pilots and flielt aflight attendants saw that money. even when they weren't flying. the argument is that was going to help society. we were trying to help society and that money was needed to get

to those people. what were the pilots to do to quote help society i want? >> so, i think the two are much rally exclusive. the vaccine mandate and where we are with the lawsuit is really just to get the company to sit down and tuque to us and discuss some of our issues that our peirs have done. we see where their vaccination rates are remember all we are trying to do is get them to sit down and talk to us. we haven't seen. we have been pushing them ten months to do that. pilots have to maintain a medical certificate. so we want to sit down and address how that will be affected, how our long-term disability how our license insurance will cover. we have to address natural immunities, everybody's, alternative means of compliance. there are many things to discuss. real quickly, going back to

mutually exclusive, the job action idea, now we're at tuesday looking back at what happened this weekend, our pile was right in line with this summer during the same kinds of meltdowns. we see them picking up almost at an all-time high they are there supporting. they're different. we're trying to get the company to sit down with us and discuss these issues to make our pilots feel at ease and to make a decision to go out there and get vaccinated or not. >> are you encouraging your pilots to get vaccinated >> well, we are. but we have to sit down and have some agreements in place so our pilots are comfortable with their career decision and their medicals, moving forward >> it's phil again what's changed in the last three, four, five years? i remember six or seven years ago when you would talk about reasons between a management of

an airline and their unions, southwest was among the best that is not the case today what has happened over the last four or five years where it seems like you are constantly battling between the swappa and the pilots and the management of southwest? >> well, we have and we've seen labor relations treating us completely differently than we've seen in the past so it is a cultural thing. southwest's success is our pilot's success. that is our main focus i am proud of spapa. we are a data-driven organization we're here to help, to offer solutionings, the company has the last few years stonewalled us in those regards. we are here ready to talk. we have been ready to talk and this vaccine is the per fact example of where our pierce are as compared to where we are. >> so would you tell a southwest customer, sure, you can still

have confidence in this airline operating as it should >> i would tell them you can have confidence in the pilots. we are absolutely committed to serving our commerce and getting them safely and efficiently to buya ticket where they want to go >> the president president of swappa, thank you for joining us guys you heard casey talk about some of the issues regarding this outage and the cancellation since friday we should point out so far today there are 87 southwest flights cancelled, down considerably f from 435 yesterday he thinks the schedule might be back to normal we'll see. guys, back to you. >> 87 times the number of passengers, still a big, still disappointing. not good for those folks phil,

thanks a programing note, southwest airlines chairman ceo gary kelly will be joining "squawk in the street" following the opening bell stay tuned coming up, brept crude creating at levels not seen since 2017. the global company continues to reopen supply having a hard time keeping up with demand we will talk autbo the glowing global energy crisis in a bit. "squawk box" is right back

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j.p. morgan ceo jamie dimon speaking at the conference by the international finance, he said, quote, i should never do this, but i am going to make a forecast this will not be an issue next year at all. this is the worst part of it i think great market systems will adjust for it like companies have, city mon is contrasting with goldman sachs from a day earlier citing a delayed recovery, dimon said, quote, keep in mind, the consumer is pieing other stuff

they can't travel internationally. they travel domestically the spend level is very high we will hear from j.p. morgan tomorrow when the company is due to report quarterly results in the morning. in the meantime, bitcoin made other companies and more news than that. >> despite he doesn't want to be the face of bitcoin suspects, jamie dimon took the bait. he reiterated his long-held belief bitcoin has no intrinsic value. >> i personally think that bitcoin is worthless i don't want to be a spokesman, i don't care, it makes no dips to me. i don't think you should smoke cigarettes either. now okay j.p. morgan our clients are adults they disagree. so if they wanted to have access to buy yourself bitcoin, you

can't custody it but we can give them legitimate as clear as possible access. >> oh. the banking guy doesn't like the technology that can disrupt the banking industry we will hear from jp morning tomorrow the quarterly results are expected >> somebody else tweeted that. >> really? >> yeah. >> was i honored >> i don't know. somebody tweeted it, not me. >> quarterly results are expected before the u.s. government might not like it too much either. chinese government doesn't like it >> stop the presses. >> stop the presses with this, though we have a new entrance into the world of high finance this morning. are you ready for this larry fink may have some competition harry, prince parry and mention markle are getting through the business of finance through asset manager epic they're announcing two new

investment partners with more than 1.3 billion under management it provides direct indexing advisers to focus on it and the duke and duchess of sussex are quote deeply exited to addressing the defining issues of our time, climate gender, racial justice, human rights and strength to democracy, our shared vision is for a world in which all investing is sustainable investing can reach many millions around the world this coming as the cupsome building theorem pire here in the united states after leaving their oil duties behind, of course, they have deals with spotify, netflix and a documentary of apple interesting, i don't know if you know about that, but they effectively create a portfolio they screen stocks for you, not for you, joe, but what they're effectively doing is creating a

portfolio and then they score the portfolio. but i will say, it's pretty interesting what they're doing and with i believe that with these guys getting involved, they will be obviously a lot more attention on the industry >> prince charles uses wine and cheese to power his car, his astin martin >> he's one of us. >> it's nice the royals can get down in the mud with the rest of us and do, you know, for his astin martin. >> what are you talking about? wince charles is not prince harry. >> i'm talking about his father. >> they're not the royals. >> i know, i would argue what you prince par rihab trying to do and meghan markle are focused on the same. >> look what happened to poor piers morgan he said one thing. is he even employed anymore after saying something >> i think he is >> rupert picked him back up

>> he was more attracted to rupert after that. >> maybe we should stick with the futures. we have been watching it right now in the group dow futures up by about 15 points anne anne futures up 2 points. the nasdaq up tlichlt we have been bouncing around, we will have much more in the next hour with hayman chemical kyle bass "squawk box" will be right back.

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all right. welcome back, everybody. take a look another oil prices this morning oil up to $80.89 yesterday at settlement was the highest we've seen in almost seven years. people have been watching as we see these climbing prices, joining us with his take is steven richardson the head of oil and gas research at evercore isi, stephen, you recently wrote a piece that was interesting you talked about the goldilook outlook for crude oil. it may be for crude oil prices but not for everybody that uses crude at this point. where do you think it's heading? >> what we're experienceing is a tightening based on we had a pretty significant hurricane in august and if you think about ida, we lost quite a bit of infrastructure so what you are seeing is a tightening of balance based on that and prices, crude imports have been very, very high and

domestic supply as we referenced in that piece about a goldilooks outlook isn't reacting as a quick of a time line than we would have expected in the past. that's probably not prices, like i said, i do think we could be in a period here of at least above prices for quite a bit and the prices we are seeing on the screen, some upward momentum yet. >> near term, you are talking higher prices. what are you thinking over the next couple years? >> well, i think what's really interesting is if you look out in the futures market 2023, where we do think you will need to see some u.s. oil supply growth, you know, that curve has come up quite a bit. it's come up to to the mid-60s you got to remember you have opec plus still has quite a bit of spare capacity. they will be bringing upwards of a million-and-a-half markets between now until year end into

2022 so i think that's the things to watch will be how that dynamic plays out, but for a mid-cycle perspective, we think the oil market can balance itself around 60 >> steven, there has been a lot of debate about the esg movement and what that has meant in terms of big oil companies not spending as much on exploration as they have in the past or as they have even planned to. there is a debate whether that is causing these high prices and making them stickier or not. where do you come down on it >> where we come down on it, there is no doubt that that movement has quelled some of the appetite for long-gated investment that will have a long impact as we see in some geographies, where you can't transition enough into alternative power sources if electricity generation, for example. i think what you are seeing is the market realizing that there

will be some tightening before we can transition, you know, the way we like to think about it is the market wants the energy system that we're going to have in the future. but we're still stuck with our current energy system. we feed these hydro carbons in the near term. in terms of investment, in the u.s. at least it's not just this esg movement it is also the desire for high returns and the fact that a lot of u.s. independents that drove u.s. supply growth for the last ten years are really on the sidelines, they've made pretty significant commitments to shareholders so they've got the other dynamic beyond what you are reading about esg and re-investment in alternative energy that's playing out here >> in the old world, you would see higher energy prices, the high nest crude oil in seven years. you would think this is an immediate way to buy big oil companies. again the environment is a little difficult as much as we may need these companies, it's not a very

popular flavor, not something a lot of people want to admit. does that change the investment advice higher oil prices means you want to invest in big oil prices or not? >> we're a little trepid, tepid on some of those ames, primarily i think what the market is waiting for is clarity on the return profile of really their non-hydro carbon investments. there is no doubting that hydro carbon investments are getting significant returns this cycle so we have focused on some of the larger u.s. independence, the conoco philips, esgs and that type of company primarily because they're not being asked, at least from a regulatory societal or shareholder investment to re-invest cash flows into the that's the skew in the market where a lot of the out performance is driven by the smaller names and independence

you have to remember we're 3% of the s&t. we're not seeing the flows that's the alpha opportunity here it is energy relative certain will i to a lot of the other cyclicals that are having challenges right now. >> we thought opec wasn't a big deal, they didn't have the same heft in the united states, opec certainly looks like they matter these days when you talk about those independent companies, stepping back in, will have shift the balance enough to make opec less relevant or not? >> well, i don't think it -- i think what we got to think about is market share. i think opec should be pretty pleased you know with the actions they took through the down cycle to, you know, stem some of the bleeding in the industry and support prices. now they are bringing -- remember they are bringing back crude supply in a measured way it's just demand and this as i mentioned before the hurricane outage is kind of putting us behind i guess what we're saying from

this goldilocks outlook is it's not clear the u.s. independents are going to take much more share in terms of the global oil pick if anything, the u.s. is going to be a little range bound in terms of the production outlook, which creates a little detente if you will from that perspective. >> stephen, thank you for your time it's really great talking to you. >> thank you. >> stephen richardson from evercore analyst calls, nike is higher after goldman sachs, goldman citing healthy industry backdrop as well as strong growth initiatives by the company. airbnb was upgraded. the firm says the street is underestimating potential growth if bookings for airbnb in 2022 and mgm upgraded to outperform from neutral, it says the resort operator hasn't been given enough credit for moves to transform itself, including for

recent acquisition deals >> okay. coming up, anthony scaramucci gives us his take on vaccine mandates and what it means for business we do that next. later, hayman crall's tile ins les joining us to talk about cha'ro in the grid stay tuned you are watching "squawk box" on cnbc uh carl, are there different planning options in here? options? plans we can build on our own, or with help from a financial consultant? like schwab does. uhhh... could we adjust our plan... ...yeah, like if we buy a new house? mmmm... and our son just started working. oh! do you offer a complimentary retirement plan for him? as in free? just like schwab. schwab! look forward to planning with schwab.

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good morning southwest airlines trying after that huge waive of cancellations. they are rebounding a bit today. when american who's got the moderna and johnson&johnson be eligible for booster shops we will answer that with an expert the house set to vote on raising the debt ceiling, which could end a dramatic chapter in walk i -- in washington it's likely we will do this in a week we bring you the latest as the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now.

good morning, welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc, i'm joe kernon along with becky quick and andrew ross sorkin on this fall day, you feel it, you see it >> i don't >> drive by the party. >> i walked a mile before the show the morning. >> you walked a mile in somebody else's shoes >> my own shoes. >> that's good can you feel it? i feel a little of the chill it's nice. but its ominous. it's foreboding. >> winterer is coming. >> game of thrones us equity futures this hour indicating, eh, nowhere, down five on the dow, up 30 on the nasdaq you can see the s&p bakelily unchanged. treasury yields, which have been a feature to talk about most morning,, 1.6, 1.6 out of 3. it would be nice to know where we go from here on treasury yields you can make a lot of determinations of what to do

with everything else based on that ten year. here are stories investors will be talking about make. jamie dimon says the global supply chain will resolve itself next year. he says he thinks that businesses are dealing with the worst effects of the supply chain crunch right now and rather than derailing the recovery, he says disruptions may just end up elongateing it a bit. the house is set to vote to raise the nation's debt ceiling today, which would cover government bill paying through early december, as you probably know the senate already passed the measure. treasury secretary janet yellen had warned of an imminent government default and merck is hoping to double manufacturing capacity for that pill that we've talked about that was shown to significantly cut hospitalization and death in at-rick people infected with covid-19, according to financial times, which also reports merck

has inked deals to make the pill good do it. >> we are just a little under 90 minutes away from the opening bill on wall street. dom chu is here. he has a look at the top pre-mark movers. what do you have >> becky, let's start off, first of all, we are seeing a move hire, at least in certain parts. the five-year treasury note, however that ten year note is in focused around fed meetings and bank earnings season we got that kicking off tomorrow the check at the highs of the session. we have the benchmark. by the way, generally speaking has been trending upwards, j.p. morgan chase headed into this big bank focus ahead of earnings, down one-tenth, citi as well and flat for morgan stanley. so a check on that rate complex

and the financials also watching what's happening with the cable broadband complex as well. we talked yesterday raymond james analysts downgrading comcast and charter communications, this morning stifel nicolaus have downgraded altice, they cited competitive pressures, lower returns for the broadbands business and comcast was a part of the raymond james downgrade yesterday. this morning comcast unchanged a by righting and our parent company they cut the target price to $64 from 68 also checking with what's happening right now with the energy complex because we have seen prices moving to the high side for oil we are not quite where we were yesterday, however, in the pre-market trade, hess, ha

halliburton and marathon and exxon and chevron. then we end the yesterday's full session cnbc.com southwest airlines cracks the top ten for obvious reasons there, a lot of stories about their cancellations. sofi technologies was a big mover into the top ten down three-quarters of 1% acon, it was a spac, it's now called ess technologies, that company was a spac i guess deal that went yesterday, it was a big battery company, bill gates among their investors there. so watch those shows 21% today, crude oil is in the top ten as well, bitcoin prices, by the way, bitcoin, beck yip the only crypto currency that cracked the top 50 ticker searches in yesterday's session.

over to you. >> that is unusual dom, thank you in the meantime, we heard of surging prices as the global supply chain struggles to break out of a pandemic-driven slump but those shipping prices may not be sustainable and we could be seeing the first evidence of that now, frank collins joins with us more on that please tell us there is light at the end of the tunnel mixing our trains and ship's metaphors >> well, good morning, beck, you know, it depends on how you look at everything. shares of maersk down 12% after the company raised the top end of the profit guidance by $3 billion the containership shipping is booming at the port of l.a. today. there are 140 in port. 83 arrived in the lost 24 hours. 63 more are expected in the next 30 days. container shipping prices from asia to the u.s. east coast have fallen 20% over the last month

a lot of companies are racing to bring goods in before the holiday season they are seeing shares fall, too. china-based cost coand evergreen down over 20%. pop pie lloyd down more than 50 performance. these stocks control more than a third of global capacity one factor, a temporary slowdown due to the national holiday where production pauses as people travel to see their loved ones, analysts say some of the decline is due to concerns the surge will end sooner than expected deutsche bank points to the fact new ships are ordered and global capacity is growing, forecast to increase 22% in 2023 if you are looking to invest here in the u.s., night swift, jb hunt, market leaders and moving containers from ports like the port of l.a becky, back over to you. >> i will add to this. we will be talking about jb

dimon and he hopes, believes they will be better this year than next we're. we are getting through the worst part of it now carl cantonia said the global supply chain picture remains in focus, overnight commentary from samsung, they suggest production restarts maybe we are coming out the other side of this >>. >> reporter: you know, we may be, but people are finding alternative ways of moving goods, some are going air 48 and walmart and coca-cola are using ships usually used to transport coal and raw materials they're putting their goals if those ships. people also finding alternate ways to get from point a to point b. >> there has been a shortage of comb, india talking how they were rung out in a matter of days last week, is it the coal

shipping containers that they took to move other goods, creating more of the problem with that? or is there not enough mind? i am answering questions i don't have the answer to that. >> i know one thing the bdrytf is used often as a proxy for china bringing in raw materials into china that's basically it gauges the rates of what i was talking about, those ships that carry raw material, iron ore and comb. yesterday it's been up in recent days so you see it up 27% over last month a. lot of analysts see that as a proxy increasing it's importing of comb. maybe it's increasing its demand and pulling some of that supply there. >> very interesting. see you soon. >> okay. coming up, when we return, the latest on a wave of cancellations to southwest airlines is there any truth to online rumors that blame a vaccine mandate? we will get an update.

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southwest airlines trying to fully recover from a cascade of flight cancellations that wreaked havoc. with passenger's travel plans, we heard that last hour from the head of southwest pilot's association. phil le beau joins us now with the latest hi, phil >> hey, joe, let's look at the cancellation situation for southwest airline. here at los vegas airport, you see scores of bags from flights that have been cancelled people have been coming in steadily in small numbers, take them home the cancellations for today according to flight aware, which tracks this, looks at 87 flights being cancelled. that is much lower than yesterday, far lower than we saw on saturday and sunday the head of the southwest pilot's association glams all of this or a good chunk on the company's refusal to work with the union on updating how pilots are scheduled, when there are cancellations due to weather

he says this is the latest example of a frosty relationship between the union and the airline. >> we've seen labor relations treating us completely differently than we've seen in the past so it is a cultural thing. the company has the last few years stonewalled us in those regards. we are here ready to talk. >> i cannot underscore how much the relationship between the southwest airlines pilots and management has changed over the last six, senks eight years. it is not what it used to be it used to be consideredone of the best relationships in the airline industry not the case today remember southwest will be reporting its q3 results next week, don't forget, guys, coming up next hour, gary kelly ceo of southwest airlines, he will be on "squawk on the street". the guys will be asking him pointed questions of what's happened on friday and this relationship between southwest management and the pilot's association. because it is certainly not in a

good spot right now. guys >> here's the part of the story i don't get. i am the first to say nothing is black and white at all, it's always invariably grey but we have a situation where the airline, the pilot's union, i believe the faa are saying this is nothing about protesting vaccine mandates or the like. >> right. >> at the same time we have the pilot's union effectively suing over the issue of vaccine mandates and we have the head of the pilot's union coming on our own air talking about this frosty relationship with the airline. even if we 'ut the pan date piece on the side of the table, there seems to be some kind of pro problem. i know everyone says it isn't a work stoppage, it's all weather. it's sort of hard to look at it and think they're not somehow related in some way. >> no, i understand what you are

saying, andrew look, let's be honest, if you have been at the airport as i have been over the last couple of days, people are coming through, more than once, they will say they refuse to fly today. look, the pilots have said point plank there is not a union sickout going on, either official or unofficial the faa says there is no pilot sickout going on keep in mind, they have far fewer pilots at southwest than before the pandemic. you had a number that took a pieout when they had to cut their schedule dramatically and getting these people back into the system after they took leaves of absence, that takes time so the problem is also the scheduling it has been far too aggressive on southwest airline's part in terms of bringing back crews and saying we think we have the people in night. when there was a weather event, like friday night in florida it's like dominos. if it's hub and spoke, it's a little bit difficult it doesn't mean it can't happen with a carrier like united or

delta or american. it's a different setup at southwest airline. that is a part of the issue as well >> okay. phil le beau, appreciate it. meantime, even if it is not related, there is a new wrink him in the story yesterday governor greg abbott issued an executive order barring businesses from enforces have southwest mandates. southwest is based if dallas, so where does that leave businesses trying or trying to comply with vaccine mandates we will bring in anthony scaramucci, sky bridge founder and co-manager and cnbc contributor. what do you make of this you have talked openly about the need for employees to be vaccinated what it does for society yet, we are in a situation we have companies in certain cases wanting to do more than the state or in some cases as much as the federal government and it's one big, it's a problem

>> all right so let's delayer it. i think the first thing is should there be a federal mandate from the biden administration i think that's basically impossible at this moment in time in our society. there's 20 to 25% of people that have lost trust in the establishment. i think that that would not go over well. but the real central issues is what about private corporations? do private corporations have the right to put through a vaccine mandate? i would say they do in the spirit of that liberty, if you are an entrepreneur, a business owner, you want to keep your people healthy, your commerce healthy, you deploy a vaccine mandate. we did that at the salt conference, you attends, we had 124 people there safely as a result of that mandate governor abbott espouses libertarian values now he's basically going against all that by telling private corporations that they have to listen to

quote/unquote big government so i think that's very hypoc hypocritical it will be interesting what the texas courts do with a decision like that. going to the pilots, i think this is the more interesting part of the story. have you pilots, they do say it's related to the vaccine. so this is the dilemma, we know the science and there is propaganda and misinformation out in the world so the challenge now for business leaders, corporate leaders, political leaders is to get out in front of that and encourage people to get vaccinated for myself, i've already gotten the boostary, andrew, i'm encouraging everybody to do. that sky bridge has a vaccine mandate. the salt conference had a vaccine mandate. many of our corporations have that mandate for one simple reason we want to keep people safe, andrew, but i'll tell you right now, if i were the southwest people, this is like an air track controller moment for

ronal reagan in 1981 they got to move on from these people that don't want to be vaccinated and focus on employee and customer safety. >> antony, you know, here's the complicated part in the midst of the pandemic this goes to the taxpayer issue, in the midst of the pandemic, both republicans and democrats said on a federal level that we needed to spend an enormous amount of money to keep people employed during this period, specifically, we need to give money to the airlines because they were a benefit to society, an economic engine and here we are now saying, well, actually, that was a federal issue now actually this issue of taking the vaccine, which is clearly i think good for society overall, is actually not a fair issue at all why does that make sense >> no, it doesn't make sense, it should be a federal issue. take you back to the 1950s, dwight eisenhower, a five-star

general in the office of the presidency, a tremendous amount of trust after the war, please go get the polio vaccination there was no problem there you want to talk about mandates after the pearl harbor investigation, you gave up your liberty to go fight for the country to protect ourselves and so, the great irony about our personal freedom, it's actually checked. we need each other to be free. if we have a foreign invader we have to team up toke. if we have an invisible organism, the coronavirus, we have to protect each other but we don't have the trust and confidence in the establishment any more, andrew that's the unfortunate thing we have to figure out a way to -- that. >> it's political it appears to me. >> no, there is no pressure. >> for reasons that are explicable i'm wondering why it's not

patriotic to take the vaccine. why that hasn't permeated if you will, a certain part of the political base on the right. >> well, listen, you know, president trump with operation warp speed, he helped to put the vaccine together he told his constituents that he, himself, took the vaccine. they booed him on stage. there is a group of those people upset with president trump for actually pushing the vaccine through. and so, andrew, that's the issue. there is 20-to-25% of the people affected from the establishment. most of these people frankly they went from a generation of economically aspirational people in the blue collar areas to economically desperational they're upset. they're angry about that so, therefore, they've lost truth in a lot of categories. >> what would you do to change this dynamic >> well, i think it's a passive. >> it's a longer-term issue than the other. >> well, step one, if you are a

responsible corporate executive, you have to force a pan date on your employees if they want to lead, that's fine they did that out here in long island we have to have a massive education program to wipe out the dismanufacturing that's going on out there step three, call mark zuckerberg tell him to knock it off with all this disinformation on facebook those are the three things i would do immediately we can end this pandemic it's better for freedom and economic growth tell governor abbott that the next time he's on your show >> we had scott gottlieb on earlier this morning he point out something, he hasn't connected the dots yet all of this politicization of the covid vaccine is very likely going to have rip him impacts, now there are certain people who are not going to want to get vaccinated simply because they are being told to by a president

they didn't vote for and don't support. now they're going to start rethinking it when it comes to other vaccines too, things that would take them from granted, everything from flu shots to measles, mumps, rubella. things that are common she worried over the next several years you may see a decline in effectiveness of vaccines if people stop taking them as well, if this dined of spreads from there i don't know how to address that >> well, listen, i talked to dr. gottlieb we got 120 years that has led to an elongation of life, becky so the result of which there is a lot of police ency in there. it's the same way after a nation goes through a war they do not want war 100 years goes by and they start to rattle the sabres again so this is an information campaign and this is an education campaign he's right if we don't get ahead of this thing, this is one of imploring every corporation in america

every small business, please get your employees vaccinated. push the envelope. if it comes from the president, it understand the soreness there because of the current political environment. but we can do this at the private level. we can do this as entrepreneurs to push this andrew and i had this conference at the salt conference that allowed us to have a 24-hour person conference in safety we even had dr. scott gottlieb telling people, hey, this is a covid-19 free or covid-friendly environment, the right words to use. we can do that together. it lead to more economic growth and freedom. i think he's right, if we don't start now and stop this disinformation, will you end up with a bigger disaster on your hands with more and more vaccines >> before you go, i want to take you real quick to jamie dimon's conference on bitcoin. you said it was worthless and different opinions make a market

and that he's prepared to get his clients access to it, to the extent that he can, that he won't custody it what do you make of that >> i'm sending jamie dimon a copy of my book, andrew, a small pamphlet the sweet life with bitcoin, it's got the people out of touch now. it's only 100 pages. i think jamie is wrong if you look at the network that's been created. the network, itself, robert met calf would tell them this as well, the network, itself, is quite valuable and it's certainly something i think he has to reconsider. for myself when i've made prideful decision or got missile locked into a prior position that was wrong i hung in there, it's always been a disaster for me i hope he releases that pride of getting things wrong in the beginning and recognizing this is a global transformation bank like his needs to be at the forefront of this, not leading from behind. >> a book.

i have netflix >> i would call it a pamphlet, joe, you have a short attention span. >> i have netflix, books are so, i don't know did you have a pfizer booster? what did you have a pfizer >> yes >> yes >> your not old enough to get one. we don't need to know about your personal log book. >> we can talk about my health issues, but, yeah, i went and got the booster as soon as i was eligible to get it >> you are eligible. so moderna is not -- anything different than first two >> i gained a little weight, though, to get the -- >> anything different? did you feel it in your sore arm? anything go on >> i sort of felt that the third shot was a lot like the first shot the second shot actually knocked me out, joe. >> it did? >> the third shot was fine you should go get it, joe. protect yourself >> it's moderna, i admire mix

and match. i wouldn't be afraid of that either i got away from moderna. >> you should get it when you are eligible that's my recommendation ask dr. gottlieb >> i'm good either way i'm feeling strong, anthony, feeling double vacc'ed, feeling good >> don't feel like the ppilots,. get in line. >> when we come back, hedge fund manager kyle bass will join us to talk about taiwan as beijing aymps up pressure on the island. st tuned you are watching "squawk box" and this is cnbc

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coming up, we'll talk consisted of booster shots we were just talking about that. five seconds or so, so we will talk about it again, can americans who got the moderna and the johnson&johnson expect to be able to get other jab? soon next, hedge fund manager kyle bass weighs in on rising energy prices and tension stay tuned you are watching "squawk box" on nbc.

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china is looking at banning all news media not directly funded by the communist party according to a report in the telegraph that says beijing published a draft law saying they may not engage in news gathering, editing founder and

cio of payment capital management we don't have to look far and very wide to have you on every couple of weeks, kyle, with the ongoing, this is episodic. this is not like a mini series this is going on for years, there will be a tenth season you sa you the latest. any bank in china that is dealing with any of the private companies, she wants to know about that now as well i mean, this is a real shift and it pretty, i think it's a seismic shift, really, in what we are seeing from president xi. is it all about getting a third term >> no, i think it's much deeper than that first of all, the chinese media ban, if you take a few steps back and look at what their grand strategy is, it seems with xi's october 9th speech talking about the

peaceful you unification of taiwan, how that intertwines with the ban of all non-chinese communist party-based media and the rollout of their central bank digital currency in 2022, it looks to me like they're setting the stage for whether taiwan surrenders peacefully or she does an aggressive militaristic landing i think it's inevitable taiwan's days are numbered. as far as what's going on with regard to the 8th inspection under secretary xi as far as different investigations into the corruption and what, if you lead deeply into what they're doing in the banking sector. they're specifically targeting banks that are making loans to troubled sectors, ie the property sector. so it looks to me like xi is

looking for a bunch of fall guyss as far as rescuing evergrand and the chinese property sector overleveraged and collapsing so i think this the a policy shift. i think investors better pay a lot of attention to exactly what's being said here. >> has it been cast in terms of what we are able to do for taiwan i don't know who will be president what administration will be there. i can't see any administration being able to react in a way that could prevent that, do you think a republican or democratic administration would say cease and desist we will stay with them >> i think you hold all the camps. you can't think of it as a whether or not we're going to kin etically get involved.

you know, china has a closed capital account. they have to use dollars everywhere around the world. everyone believes china's economy could be eventually stronger than ours, but they rely wholeheartedly on the dollars' efficacy. no when trusts the chinese currency so if we would have sanctioned chinese banks and to say we were to even the start discussing an invasion of taiwan, we could removal them and the their access to dollars. their economy would collapse our dod needs to understand it treasury understands it. treasury is very much in the same boat as wall street where they wanted to keep growing. it's important our national

security be separated from those that have an interest if until marks. >> so that would be the red button in many ways. would you use it and advocate for the u.s. government to more actively build more fabs into the u.s. and manufacture this so that maybe taiwan isn't as crucial. that's what makes it as crucial as it is, right? >> that is exactly right i think it's important to know these spacs take five years to get built, roughly, the first is going up in arizona for taiwan semi we're about a year-and-a-half into it. andrew, the real problem is there is a duration in this match. samsung is about to build a major $10 billion plus fab in taylor, texas, south of dallas

and i think we are encouraging, helping, assisting in anyway to get through to get taiwan's semi business up here the problem is they take five years and it looks like chinese militaristic bridge rance is increasing every single day so for those people that believe it's a multi-year event, if you listen to xi's speech october 9th, very carefully, he basically asked taiwan to surrender peacefully, or he will have a rejuvenation he puts it or achieving the stream. >> i read the same thing you have it's possible by 2020, '25, '26, we could be where you are talking about if not sooner, the question is how far you think the u.s. government should go effectively to protect that country, strategically, if you believe in itsive ev itibility,

it may be i don't mean to be fatalistic about that. how we should think about our own strategy in that regard? >> i mean if i were president and i was deciding whether or not to send more aircraft carriers and more men and women into the taiwan straight or the south china sea or i knew i had the economic viability to really coerce china to really think twice about engaging in this kind of activity i think if we start socializing amongst our government, the fact that we have the economic nuclear button, that will act as a very strict deterrent against chinese belligerence as up to now, i haven't heard our government talk about this at all we should be discussing this openly. >> kyle, you were behind, you saw it in the head of the ai projects and the milltary, we're

so far behind china in ai development that we're never going to catch up. is that just ai, is it other computing? sit, how many things are we at this point already behind the 8-ball as you said in there look, my contacts in that space say that's just not true but i do think there is a massive race in quantum computing. for those that don't understand quantum computing. i'm not a quantum expert, i'm not a ph.d it's been explained to me once there is a specific level of achievement in quantum computing. that country's sovereign or entity will be able to decrypt any encryption that exists in data all over the world that data or sovereign will end up controlling the data universe and being able to read anything that goes over the internet and i think that's why this race in

quantum computing will be so important and that will be highlighted in the years to come. >> steve agrees with you, which is why he made a big endoumt to at&t i want to come back to this point of our ability to really be using an economic cugill over china. they've gotten bigger and bicker do you think we can hold them back forever with that >> look, we're not trying to hold them back we're trying to make china act as a responsible global actor. they didn't act responsibly when the pandemic emanated out of wuhan. we still don't know exactly what happened it's obvious to help they're not acting responsibly globally anywhere. now they're banning any press within china that isn't fund by the cpp. they've regressed so far and we made a bet 20 years ago thinking

they would open, open their capital account and become more western and more capitalistic. in fact, we lost that bet. as soon as we start realizing they're not our strategic competitor and they're actually our enemy in almost every way, we will start developing policies to reciprocate with china. today they're what 75-plus official chinese state media accounts on twitter. they won't allow accounts in china. >> kile, we talk energy next time >> that's one everybody's got some issues there, kyle, all right. thanks appreciate it. see you again soon >> when we come back, we will bring you news on the moderna

booster shots. democrat patel will join us right after the break. in 2016, i was working at the amazon warehouse when my brother passed away. and a couple of years later, my mother passed away. after taking care of them, i knew that i really wanted to become a nurse. amazon helped me with training and tuition. today, i'm a medical assistant and i'm studying to become a registered nurse. in filipino: you'll always be in my heart.

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somebody in there? don't thank them too soon. [ scream ] micheal myers is still alive. tonight, our family will kill him. i want to take his mask off and see the life leave his eyes. some breaking news right now on covid booster shots, meg tirrell joins us she has more on that front >> hey, becky, we are preparing for two fda advisory meetings for both the moderna and j&j vaccine. we are getting them posted ahead of the fda we are not seeing the agency's opinion on these

we will be looking forward to that later this morning. we have seen what the companies have made to make their case specifically moderna, their meeting is coming up first on thursday the interesting thing what moderna applied for, it focused on a half dose, you get 100 micrograms for the first shot. on the booster, they're making their case here in these documents saying the half dose boosted anti-bodies 15-fold, compared to previous levels, it showed a lower genicity. a half you relate to getting the second shot. they note that giving a half dose would increase world wide supply of their vaccines so they are making the case here for that half dose saying in their filings, they are looking for the same authorization as what we saw for the pfizer vaccine tailored to spec groups so we'll see the fda documents come out later today j&j putting out documents this

morning, essentially citing the data we saw on giving the boost two months out, which increases the efficacy up to 94% based on anti-body data, they're recommending six months being the optimal timing this is ahead of big votes later this week from fda advisers, cluck some much anticipated data on mixing and matching. >> meg, just to clarify, you said they are applying under the same, for the same group that was already given authorization for pfizer pfizer applied for anyone up to 16 and up to get it. i thought they were applying for anybody 18 and up. they are saying we want to same authorization for the same group which has been authorized for pfizer so moderna officially applied for a booster for everybody 18 and older here in their documents, they note the fda's sort or amendment for pfizer for people 65 plus,

all the categories eligible for boosters moderna says in the interest of public health, it's requesting a booster dose consistent with the amendment issued by the ygs for the pfizer biontech vaccine. it's interesting to hear the conversation it would be surpriseding to see the fda advocate for different groups >> hey, meg, in terms of efficacy, you were talking about a multiple in terms of anti-bodies, how does it compare to pfizer and relative to the efficacy after the second shot either of the pfizer or moderna in. >> you know, right now, we have an anti-body level information from moderna we don't have the real world efficacy or effectiveness data showing how this affects getting infected or severe disease, we expect to see that from an nih presentation on friday it's hard to do an apple's to apple's comparison here. i am hopeful we will get to see that comparison, does it boost

to 94% or what is the protection and what's the best way to boost? it might be mixing and matching. we don't know yet. >> meg, thank you, we will see you later during the course of the day. we are joined by dr. kavita patel. she's an nbc and medical contributor, doctor, thanks for being here today >> thanks so much, becky >> let's talk through the booster shots at this point. i guess it's safe to assume that the fda very likely will sign off and the same group for the moderna and johnson&johnson booster shots that shy have done for pfizer or is that a stretch >> no, it's safe to assume, the way the journal put forward their documents, i think you can make a reasonable argue, it's similar to pfizer's that the advisory committee might not be necessary. i realize in the interest of having this dialogue, they will

meet with moderna and johnson&janson,fully, soon after, the ydc will meet, we'll get clarity, americans are pretty confused and wondering, many patients are wondering, like are we left kind have modea or johnson & johnson in the first doses. >> how much demand is there for booster shots at this point? >> it's pretty high. we're outpacing booster shots by -- we're outpacing initial doses by a factor of about two to three to one. not surprising reminiscent of the early days when over 65 qualified and we saw people flooding websites and pharmacies and clinics but having said that, we have many supplies and doses on shelves. and we're bracing for pediatric doses and smaller trays to be available. we'll do everything. think about it, first doses,

booster shots, a booster for moderna of a different dose and pediatric doses and smaller sets. >> do you get the feeling that if you're double vaccinated and let's say it's been six months, a year, do you get the feeling that you have very limited immunity to a new exposure to covid or do you even think in a year the worst-case scenario is still off the table? and i'm just wondering, if it was very scarce, you could see that -- you're never going to have zero risk, absolutely zero risk there are people that definitely do need the boosters that have underlying conditions where the worst-case scenario may never be off the table or it could be back on the table very soon. i'm just wondering, if this is an endemic bug that we're going to see again and again and again, you're talking about every six months then. if you want 15 times the antibody level, you're going to get it every six months.

it's not free and people in other countries around the country that haven't had any yet. just wondering, how much is too much >> great question, joe listen, we're looking for a couple of features, some of which we've seen and some we haven't. in order to think about something every six months or 12 months, we have to look for a rapid pace in mutations. i know it feels like we've seen a lot of mutations, but head to head, if you compare coronavirus against the flu, we don't see that degree of kind of shift that would cause panic to need a yearly vaccine you're putting out i think exactly the right question because this is a novel virus. even if two years later we start to see something that escapes the currently immunity we have or that memory or t cell immunity that we all do have but we don't know how to measure kicks in but isn't enough, could we need boosters we do boosters for other things.

to be determined but not as bad as -- >> we need more data and -- >> but we need to be prepared. >> if i knew that i was going to either be asymptomatic or just have a moderate symptoms, i don't know -- i may like to wait for a booster that works on a variant. if we don't have a variant yet but if there was going to be a variant, maybe wait for that -- >> i wouldn't do that today. >> what's that >> i wouldn't wait today for that because we know that pfizer is -- we know all the manufacturers are talking about variant-specific changes to their formula. i couldn't wait today, joe, because we do know delta is here, delta is present and we have waning immunity today you're bringing up a good point. this is why i'm excited about the oral antivirals, merck, first in line with others behind it >> that's a game changer. >> it changes the game you get a positive test next

year, joe, and we know you're immunized to the large degree. an oral antiviral compliments your immunity, would be what we would look for. >> one of the questions i wanted to ask you about given what joe was asking, i think the implication of that question is, do you really need to take the booster now? i assume there's some element here of whether you're going to be infected and, therefore, infectious to the rest of society. and so there's the argument about what -- whether you're going to go to the hospital or worse. but then there's this larger question about whether you can get infected at all by getting the third booster, you can keep other people from getting sick. >> right andrew, that has to do with the circulating case rates we have still seven day rates that are coming down until we drop to seven day rates of less than 10,000, which we're nowhere near we're at 80 to 90,000 cases in a

seven-day course, that's unacceptable we have too much virus circulating to kind of wait because of exactly what you point out -- >> i believe double vaccinated people -- >> i'm not a doctor. but i can tell you, a doctor can speak to this. i want to talk to the doctor doctor, just speak to this -- and i've had conversations with albert bourla and others -- the third shot -- it's more efficacious by default by having the booster which means -- >> you get the second booster and you have a lot of circulating but you're -- even after you get the second shot. >> doctor, you speak to it i'm not going to >> you don't know. >> you're right. and i think -- >> i do know >> you'll be wearing masks and taking a vaccine for the rest of your life. >> let the doctor explain. >> the third shot absolutely does boost and amplify antibody

titers if you look at the 40 and under group, those two vaccine doses have stuck around even six months, nine months later. we're seeing effectiveness in the 80s and 90s. i would say some people do need to be boosted at six months but it's not the entire population that's why you've seen this debate i think everybody needs that third dose and that third dose, think of the children's pediatric vaccines they're three dose-vaccines. should probably default to kind of the normal series for a covid vaccine series >> doctor, thank you squawk returns right after this.

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good tuesday morning i'm carl quintanilla with jim cramer, david faber at the new york stock exchange. futures are off the early morning lows as we get encouraging commentary on supply chain production results as well as decent guidance on q-3 from american, signet all ahead of

tomorrow southwest cancellation the airline denying that a vaccine mandate backlash is behind the trouble and we'll check in with gary kelly as well. and texas bans vaccine mandates on all entities how willbusinesses respond and what does that mean for the return to the office trend watching the vaccines, the development of its most advanced covid-19 vaccine candidate and moderna now says that data does support a booster. we're going to start, though, with the cancellations at southwest. you've got a long list of questions you want answered just about labor relations with the carrier. >> a lot of things have not been answered yet and i do put out what i'm looking at. you can get it if you're a member of the investor club. i'm not satisfied with anything i've heard they're saying it's scheduling