tv Fast Money CNBC December 14, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
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as we just discussed with sri, he already set a hawkish tone. amazingly strong inflation data this morning no doubt he will be pressed on that during the press conference we are out of time as "closing bell. "fast money" starts now. >> this is "fast money." i'm melissa lee. tonight's lineup -- tonight the apes go bananas. trading volume off the charts. blockbuster turn around with one of the biggest voices in the trade. plus a big warning for the new year why chris harvey sees losses mounting in 2022 and uber hits the gas.
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what sent that stock rallying. take a look at the losses in microsoft. that stock down more than 3% other names like alphabet, apple an and amazon also slipping today could be the day the music dies for the tech scene. clearly that was tim seymour who said that. explain yourself >> it's possible investors who have been taking their chevy to the levee over and over, the levee may be dry don mclean's great song. wrestled with 50 day and only done that a couple times in the last year. if you think about the overall
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waitings for the market -- so we talk about the nasdaq 100. if you add tesla and nvidia to the big five, you are at roughly 52%. 52% in seven stocks in the nasdaq 1700. -- 100 it is underperforming. this is the theme. we have said this over and over on the show. we have been talking about a market in pain for sometime. did the mus iic die today no but the broader s&p, the same stocks close to 28 or 29% waiting with the six or seven biggest companies in the world, that should concern investors. today maybe the music didn't
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die, but the market didn't this is a moment, a wake-up call >> a lot of metaphors i am not sure i understand, but it feels different than the stock the underperformance with the nasdaq 100 down 1%, usually it's the higher valuation stocks leading the way. to see the big stocks down that much during the day, it felt different. >> it felt different and i think the big bopper would be apple. go back to november 30 since november 30, each day since the stock has traded north of 100 shares. i mention that because that's historic volume for apple over the course of the last seven or eight trading days i think a lot of people piled in late
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i think that's fine. better would be this move back down to a trend line at 155. i don't think the music has died, but i think the song might be over for a while. i think that's a healthy thing microsoft, you will get an opportunity. nothing has changed in terms of fundamentals, but what has changed is the backup. a hawkish meeting tomorrow >> let's say bulls were making this a couple weeks ago. this is a trade you want to be in in good times and bad it affords you some protection in good times and bad. what is it this time around? what can the argument be this time around, karen, to say it should still go higher or is there? >> i'm long so i hope thereis an argument, and i will make it. i think there is a lot of 5g to
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go and apple has changed a lot. when you get in the subscription revenue or the recurring revenue which trades at higher multiples which creates balance for hardware which trades at lower multiple putting it together and the incredible amounts of cash they have, i think the value proposition for apple is far different than some of the high flier tech stocks, like docusign who comes in a ton and is not remotely close to a value stock. i am long apple and microsoft, amazon, alphabet and facebook. to me particularly alphabet and facebook i don't put in that category at all. i look at them as value stocks or m efeta doesn't have any fluf
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in it at all i am not sticking with ivg which is a high-tech high flier. could it scratch around and come back maybe. but in the face of that, i don't know how these super high flyers can retain those multiples but one thing i have to add, i just had to cover some today because it moved $60 off the 440 and change it peaked if that's not why you were in it to hedge, then why do it at all. >> jeff, what is this pressure in big tech all about? we can be intellectual about this and say it is value stocks for x, y and z karen laid out a good case for a lot of them.
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is it just dump tech because that's the rotation going on now? >> i don't think it's dump tech. i think you want to differentiate between the high flyers and some of these solid stocks that have a little more reasonable valuations. i know we are focused on microsoft. that's a stock up 47% year-to-date so a little bit of selling heading into the end of the year i don't know that sets off any alarm bells for me i don't think the big tech trade has died if anything, i think it is just getting going. you may have a quiet period through the first quarter of 2022, but i'm operating under the thought that you have falling money supply, prices have risen financial conditions start to tighten. in slowdowns you want strong fundamentals, and technology has
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the highest concentration. amd, apple, these are names i think will continue to do well relative to the fed i i think we all know what's coming but look back to 2015, 2018, they outperformed. i don't think the tech trade has to go poorly because of the macrobackdrop. >> i will go back to tim you talk about chevys and levees that i am not sure connects to this conversation. >> sorry about that. >> you say the story has not changed so this is what the market is doing right now, but i am not doing that. >> we talk about trading in a stock like apple and i think there has been plenty of opportunities. you have to point out the week when we were wrestling with a
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trillion dollars value the biggest company in the world has tripled. why? it is a better company on some level. it deserves a higher multiple. i agree with that. i am an investor in apple. but the hawkish fed has a lot to do with the move in these stocks you cannot tell me -- guy mentions this all of the time. the etf dynamics, is something we have to think about the fundamentals are fine beings extraordinary. i am worried about a dynamic where the market becomes bigger than five stories. at some point they are more disproportionate to what you want in this market. i get that that's been very beneficial with people for a long time.
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i am talking about the s&p a now 27%, these six or seven stocks much that troubles me. it is not about are they still investable market dynamics change the rhetoric or things people need to think about >> we have talked about this in the context of other factors how etf governs how other stocks trade even though stocks may not warrant that decline or depreciation do you see that also playing a role >> tim makes a good point. two of the pillars -- there are many -- but have been passive investing that is great on the way up, but not on the way down. when passive becomes active that's a concern how many etfs apple is in and
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how many of those is apple top ten holding. when money comes in it lifts that boat. it's just problematic when it stops. we have seen it stop a number of times. but look over the last four years or so. you have had a number of 20 to 35% peak drops or declines in in apple. i think you want one to happen again and get to maybe 153 or 154 and we load the boat your led zeppelin early on was well done. genius by you. >> i am going to move on >> chris harvey is the head of equity strategy at wells fargo good to see you. you say it's time to move up in quality and down in risk
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we are seeing this rotation out of tech which many would argue is up in quality and down in risk so how do you reconcile what we are seeing going on now? >> we have to differentiate between what's cyclical and not cyclical software or software and semiconductors are different beasts what we are seeing is secular trade unwind you are seeing it in high growth companies. i think that's partly what we are seeing with relation to the fed. the fed is not going to make a policy by hook or by crook they are going to contain inflation or keep it moderate you are seeing break-evens comes down that's an environment that's not
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hospitable to stagflation. that's a great environment for software that's what has changed. we had a lot of hedge fund derisking in the last couple weeks and many have been crowded into these high growth names we think that's ending, but if you are investing on a price of sales basis, you are not having a very happy end to the year let's just say that. >> this is karen thanks for being on. so if one were to follow your advice is that by definition leaving that investor in to value stocks whether financials or industrials? >> what we are telling people is we want cyclical quality we want better balance sheets, better stewards of capital, better management teams,
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industrials such as the aerospace group. we think there is great opportunity. we think you can buy that in financials as well, particularly banks. but you can find that more so in your semiconductors. we want good balance sheets and some scyclicality. because we do want to downshift. >> we talked about the impact of the retail trader. that's been a headline of 2021 yesterday in your show you had the percent of households and equities i am wondering how do you think this plays out in terms if the fed is going to fight inflation by hook or by crook, that could mean negative things for the stock market and could mean a negative impact on household
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wealth >> there are two reasons we highlighted this one has to do with the market. last time there was a spike it was the late '90s. what this told you, it's more about what has happened, not so much what is about to happen you have pulled ahead return and the next couple years may not be so great that's what we saw in the late '90s that's what we are beginning to think now. on the spending side as you tie the net worth that will pull back that is by sentiment and by association that will also influence discretionary spending or consumer spending. that has a bigger impact today than ten years ago that's important as you
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restructure portfolios good to see you. jeff mills, how do you think that plays out in terms of household wealth and the impact of what we are seeing this week for the stock market as we come off record highs >> i think it's possible that it has an impact. statement i feel like households in general are in pretty good shape from a general standpoint. perhaps that isn't the main governor on the stock market much when i think about my thesis for next year it is more about price to racio coming down because the economy is slowing down in general. when i think about next year and the potential growth, aroun 10%, you are talking about a return in the stock market in the 5% range i believe this is largely because of this slowdown thesis.
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chris talked about quality i still think you can find quality in certain areas of technology and we have seen that play out in the past that's where i am focusing my attention as i think about next year coming up, the apes are back at it. bouncing back after a day of losses we will talk about what is next for these. and uber with a big bump in ock. we have details next doa don't go anywhere. finding understanding doesn't have to be. together, we can create a kinder, more inclusive world for the millions of people on the autism spectrum. go to autismspeaks.org
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(cheers) xfinity brought us together, after all! power your whole home this holiday with wifi speeds faster than a gig. click, call, or visit a store today. sing 2 the ceo of uber saying the company had its best week ever uber gaining more than 4%. is ride sharing back in business this is good news because we have been dealing with omicron we also spoke with lyft who said so far no impact on bookings ride sharing, i don't want to say it seems impervious, but people are back.
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>> inconceivable, i am mperviou, whatever word you want to use. go back and look at the quarter they put up prior to that. i think it was an extraordinary quarter. i think they are being penalized on the back of shoot first, ask questions later. i don't know if lyft gets to the 57 target, but i think it gets higher than now. i would rather lyft over uber. >> you think that gets you out of the penalty box, but it doesn't. this is like a real time barometer on where the economy is at any one time if you think ride sharing is back, the extrapolation is that people are booking flights,
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vacations, planning out as well? >> i like uber here. there is a big eu worker for both lyft and uber but uber sees their business closer to prepandemic level than pandemic in fact, significantly prepandemic. they talked about monetizing stakes, of which they had multiple if you look at where the stock is trading -- i will go with uber now, somewhere between 32 and 38 this is where you settled into in the early days of assessing
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coming out of covid. i have always said around uber, i like the fact their business is more complex and going more the dynamic. i think this is the way to go. they are getting closer and getting closer to profitability. >> karen, your thoughts on ride sharing or do you see this as a way for investors or mindsets of going to concerts in terms of live nation. >> where are the majority of the riders in areas that are more vaccinated i would assume that would be the population more likely to go out and do things. maybe that's not right we are getting used to the idea we are going to have covid with us one way or another.
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each variant has less effect i feel the ride sharing business has found its footing. we will see, but maybe both will reach profitability in the next year i agree with guy i like lyft. i like the simpler business model. i know tim prefers the more complicated one. but if you have that more complicated one, the market gravitates to the lower level. i do have reopen exposure as in ulta, for example. we are just getting started. here is what is coming up next -- >> game stop and amc trying to shake off major losses plus, by now, pay never?
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nvidia combined. welcome back >> happy to be back much. >> what is the mentality on the trade. as we go into the end of the year there is concern with the macroenvironment hitting high flying stocks. a lot of new traders have never traded in this sort of environment before, have never seen these stock moving integers down >> i think you hit the nail on the head i think the prevailing winds are the whales, hedge funds and other things related, being cautious with the upcoming fed meeting, cautious with a multidecade high inflation rate. i think it could be termed a high risk bet.
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i think many people are holding onto the concept of diamond handing. this particular one is more symbolic of the fight for market transparency we can chop up the other trades and look at their revenues and ebida. but these two i would define it as an easy trade many people may be willing to ride it down to zero if need be much. >> which sounds good on paper, but when you have a lot of people who on the way up were so glad about it going up, being able to pay off their mortgage, et cetera. life-changing money being made we highlighted today's trading being 106 million.
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meta's average is 21 million so it's twice that of meta on an average day. you are saying the other trading activity is other investors trading around, but the retail trader is holding on still >> i would strongly think the data suggests that with the high volatility there will be quite a bit between marketmakers and high volatility and we are trading into stocks that are numerically more valuable so stocks trading at a lesser price relative to amc. there will be high frequency trading, high market trading there is trading in retail but i think there are investors highly attached to this play.
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>> you mentioned that holders of amc are believers that you can enact market change. if you are an amc diamond hander, should the trade be short robin hood >> that's an excellent question. with the apes, it's caring about market transparency. that may not be tied to a particular equity. talking about robin hood, i am bearish, bearish, bearish. last quarter they earned 1.3 billion and the quarter before that they burned half a million dollars. it's safe to say it is not a good situation the only reason before that they
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did well was because of these idiosyncratic things likes explosion in dogecoin. now in the previous quarter we didn't have a wild defense they weren't able to profit off trades as we move forward as they make money off crypto and that has been quiet and it sounds like in the next year there will be fireworks on the regulatory front that relates to this, their business model is falling apart. on more of the social standpoint, one of the most difficult jobs of the year was to be on the pr team of robin hood it was a dumpster fire the public lost their faith in the company. they said of risk to them is a reduction in spreads that is a risk to the company that is beneficial to traders.
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that's in their own sec filing i don't see a way they can win the trust of the retail public back >> matt, good to see you thanks for your time >> thanks so much. >> guy, robin hood was enabled by this wave of retail investors and may be seeing the decline because of a backlash amongst these retail investors >> it's interesting. i said this for a while. the only thing move denovel or innovative about robin hood was the name and hair. maybe it makes sense in terms of market capping we are pretty steadfast. we have the utmost respect for the guys and gals who do this. it was recently announced he
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sold 312,000 shares of amc and the cfo sold 18,000 shares you would think if anybody believes in the story it's them. i am not suggesting that's the case but fundamentals don't matter for certain stocks but matter for others like robin hood i think you have to be somewhat consistent >> or somebody may say spiderman should move the needle but fundamentals shouldn't have mattered but when you see a cfo selling the entire position that he has, that puts it under the rug. >> i wanted to ask mat about the that is that another thesis, spark
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versus fundamentals catching up with the price i tweeted out yesterday having the apes throw in the towel and they shoved that in my face with the volume and price action. i think amc, game stop, guy mentioned the selling. i think the market is shifting it's giving less credit to those to the future and other popular stocks that other investors have owned have gotten killed you may be in a situation where you have to sell what you can. these stocks have levitated. and i wonder where the new buyers come from maybe it recovers back to previous levels. it has been flat all year, but when is the next catalyst and when do you get out and why.
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>> let's go to mike for some blockbuster action >> amc is typically one of the top ten most active options. fifth today. we did see about 1.7 times the average daily put volume about 44,000 traded for .64. that's roughly double what we saw at the open of the day while we have seen call volumes steadily declining, we have seen put volumes steadily increasing. over the last five days it probably has been double it is possible that maybe some of the diamond hands are holding onto the stock maybe they are doing some hedging just in case >> i am sure they are. >> for more "options action," tune in for the full show on
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to learn more about cost, visit xarelto.com or call 1-888-xarelto welcome back take a look at some of the buy now, pay later stocks. the firm has a new note, buy now, pay maybe a high growing number of delinquencies and missed payments 53% of households of less than $75,000 per year have missed at least one payment. names like affirm, papal and others come under regulatory scrutiny karen, how much concern do you think this is?
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this is an area driving a lot of growth >> it's droiving a lot of growt but has also driven growth for consumer discretionary, like peloton. is that over a few places to go with it fl these stocks in particular you get credit calls and that's concerning mastercard and visa got hit on the way people pay is changing i don't know if this will be good for them or if the part that is the consumer is going to be slowing, if that is the element of it, it would be bad for them and bad for banks as well if credit starts to worsen. there is a lot to be worried about.
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i didn't buy these buy now, pay later because of the multiple. but it is concerning >> there is less wiggle room to recover from something like this and the notion they are taking out multiple loans or buying multiple items on buy now, pay later, there may not be a full picture of the risk con summers are taking on in paying back the loan and may not be accounted for in valuation >> that's been the point the ability to make credit analysis decisions is something that is part of the evolution of technology credit delinquencies will be higher in 2022 are these folks at the front of
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the line possibly i think this is more bad valuation again. you have a firm pricing at 60% growth, also pricing in lending that is not buy now, pay later, part of their overall business model that doesn't exist yet these are the issues that we got a little too excited with the new wave consumer and we are staring at good old-fashioned credit dynamics and old-fashioned valuation dynamics >> guy, is this a concern or niche, a small subset of the consumer >> i think it's niche. i wonder how much crypto plays into this. if crypto continues to get beaten up, what does that mean are these the same people that buy now, pay later i think papaypal is a little
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welcome back to "fast money. disney suffering from a crisis of confidence. it was cut to 185 from 210 >> they said there were challenges, but the share prices overreacted. i think that's no question now at 33 times versus netflix at 43 times. we are back in a range i would consider reasonable. morgan stanley pointed out three
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things that would make investors confidence -- we talked about where do we find stuff, on hulu, disney i think disney has the wherewithal to resolve issues like that. we initially sauw disney at 143 back in november i think it is a good entry point. >> guy >> we said we were waiting for a pullback back to the december 2019 all-time high before everything cratered. we know what happened there. we got it on december 1 and 2. i thought the 210 price target was too high i agree with the new price target and i think you can stay long with the price levels. i am with jeff mills on this
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welcome back jim cramer will have the ceobausch interview at the top of the hour. check this out with the information there on your screen you can bet on a stock, winning horse, next year's super bowl champion, that's old news but this allows you to place trades on everything you can even bet on how many people ride the new york subway. and you can trade on the economy. it's great to have you with us >> excited to be here. >> you are regulated so this is all legit so to speak.
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are you surprised at the things that people want to bet on or are you not surprised there is a betting mentality in our society? >> i was surprised to see it oftentimes it's not necessarily surprising things are in the news on a weekly or daily basis. these things, like recessions, these are things that have real and tangible economic impacts. what we see is allowing people to trade on things that direct their bottom lines >> one of the most active contracts on your site is will 2021 be the hottest year on
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record what are people saying about that and what it the payout right now? >> absolutely. the market pricing, they are saying it won't be the hottest year on record yesterday we were talking about 20x payouts. >> there are a lot of things about the economy people can bet on just to give the viewer some context, cpi, the last reading was actually on target in terms of what people were betting on in the outcome of cpi. the most active contract right now in terms of economic betting is what about gpe be
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>> our markets are between 5 and 5.75%. that's sort of where we are landing right now. >> quickly, do you think this changes after tomorrow and the fed meeting? >> what markets are really good at, there will be new information coming from the feds, fancy headlines, overshoot or undershoot and adjust market traders are good at taking in new information, how to incorporate this information into new forecasts and calibrate it over time they do a great job providing a real gauge for future events. >> thank you so much, tarek
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mansour. karen, would you bet on next year will be the hottest year on record there are interesting things maybe it's another interesting data point in terms of how people are thinking about the economy? >> i think that hottest record here we are december 14, is there enough data to know. unless the next 17 days are super hot it can't possibly be the hottest year on record i am guessing more people are informed is it different than what we do? it sounds different, but maybe it really isn't. i think this investing/gambling thing is here to stay. >> up next, your final trade
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>> jeff mills. >> ea. caught my eye. showed strength off of 120 i think the risk-reward is pretty good. >> my mission is simple, to make you money i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere. i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now >> hey, i'm cramer welcome to "mad money. i'm trying to make you money my job is to not just entertain but educate and teach. so call me today we got a bit of reprieve from the indiscriminate nat selling that we've been seeing and, you kno
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