taper of its asset purchases and forecast multiple rate hikes next year. now futures are pointing to more solid gains. they're like records records on some of these averages, or close covid outbreaks taking a toll on pro sports teams the nfl said omicron has been detected on multiple teams and could be a deciding factor in the playoff race. bruce springsteen has reportedly sold the rights to his music catalog to sony, price tag half a billion dollars it's tuesday, december 16th, 2021, and "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, everyone welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin.

and we want to start with the markets. joe was just talking about this. the dow all of the major averages jumping yesterday after the fed signals a more aggressive unwind of the bond buying the dow closed higher by 383 points, the s&p 500 up by 1.6% and the nasdaq the big winner, tech up by more than 2%. if we want to check out the u.s. equity futures you'll see the trend continuing, the dow futures indicated up 320 points this morning, nasdaq up 125 points and the s&p indicated up by 40 points and this would be an intraday high for the s&p 500. if you want to check out the treasury markets, the weird part, the yields have barely budged, the ten year at 1.439%, a little lower than yesterday at this time.

the two year .641% that's where we were friday. so a lot baked in for the treasury markets but not stocks. let's get to steve liesman for what we learned from jay powell yesterday we learned a lot and the market seemed to like it. >> yeah. what happened here, andrew, is the fed delivered exactly on the guidance it provided which means it's going to quicken the pace of the removal of the pandemic emergency assistance and reverse course and take steps to make fighting inflation the main steps of the monetary policy. the fed doubled the pace of the taper to $30 billion a month and that's -- it kept interest rates unchanged. but fed chair jay powell suggested maximum employment criteria needed to increase rates has been nearly achieved and then the fed projected three more rate hikes in 2022 and

three more in 2023 the rates will rise to just under 1% by the end of next year the funds rate now expected at 1.6% by year end 2023. in fact, ten of the committee members now see three rate hikes next year. markets cheer the long run outlook look pretty benign they also cheered the response when asked why the fed is continuing to buy assets despite fight inflation now. >> we've learned in dealing with balance sheet issues, we learned it's best to take a careful, methodical approach to make adjustments. markets can be sensitive to it, and we thought this was a doubling of the speed we're basically two meetings away from finishing the taper. we thought that was the appropriate way to go. so we announced it, and that's what will happen >> i guess translation is i got your back from fed chair powell to the markets the question is not if the fed

will raise rates but when. may remains the day for the first rate hike. >> do you have any news about jay powell -- anything in your mind that was -- clearly the market thinks that something was revealed though, pretty much this is what we sort of thought was ultimately going to happen, no >> yeah. look, i have enough trouble sort of with figuring out what's going on with the economy and forecasting monetary policy. it is very difficult to figure out how and why the market reacts the way it does, andrew some people said it was less hawkish than they had expected, i thought it was exactly what was expected what i am interested, this conundrum that powell may face, which is this. the fed fights inflation through markets by tightening financial conditions a higher stock market is loser financial conditions, unchanged yields is looser financial

conditions i'm wondering on one hand you want to marvel at how powell pulled this off. on the other hand was he too clever that he did not cause financial conditions to tighten? that's how you fight inflation he may have to lean harder, take the market by the lapel in the coming months i told you i was raising rates. i'm not sure the market heard that. >> there's a perception i guess among the hawkish community that he's talking tough but acting fairly dovish. the move in the nasdaq makes me think that that's what the market responded to yesterday. initially i thought, wow, look, the market likes that we're tightening and we're going to take on inflation. i don't think that was it. i think the market looked and said, wow, three more months with 7% inflation, three more months of balance sheet expansion. what are we doing? thank you. as a tech stock. and then even in terms of, you know, rate hikes, exactly what

we were thinking with what -- looking at the journal piece, 5.3% personal consumption expenditure inflation, which is the fed's preferred metric the target was two we're above that yet still treading lightly i thought jay powell's answer was right on, which is you don't do herky jerky moves just responding to things that it unsettles the markets. they are getting tighter they cut the time frame for ending qe, they cut it in half, moved the dots, did that, but it's still gradualism that we're seeing >> joe, i think that's smart i agree with the hawkish view on that, which is i don't think they're actually doing enough right now. but joe, remember when you were a pink sheet salesman or a

broker, what is it you were -- >> i started as a commodity broker, i started selling physical gold in some guy's bar. it's embarrassing, i don't want to go into that. >> say you're on the phone with one of the marks -- just kidding. >> that's horrible. >> you have this chart up of the fed's funds rate you said the fed is going to 1% -- not that one, the one on the outlook for the fed. and the fed is going to be 1.6% in two years, and then, in 2024, bottom line is, what is out there now is a very, very benign outlook for the fed. >> gradualism, yeah. >> 2% by the end of 2024. >> who believes that >> that's a pretty good thing -- what's that? >> who believes that do you look at that and say that's realistic and that's where we're going to be? i think that we're all dancing

around the same thing. can you have a soft landing, appease the markets and do it with enough force to stop inflation? >> i think there are more people who believe it this morning than maybe believed it yesterday at 1:59, becky. i don't know what the fed is saying, this particular trajectory of rates is the one that they believe will reduce inflation to its forecast of 2.6% now that's what they believe in aggregate. there are obviously people we're going to talk to in coming days with different views -- >> it doesn't explain the balance sheet, either. >> that's right. and that's another thing that hangs out there. remember, powell said we're going to be talking about the balance sheet in the weeks to come or months to come. >> that's what we don't know if you shrink the balance sheet extensively, that also is a big form of tightening, it's not going to be in the dot plot or anything else you have here. so it's a big tool, we know it

was useful on the way up, we know it's going to have some impact on the way down, if you choose to use it. >> but they'll get there, it's worth pointing out becky you know your kids touch a hot stove once and that's the lesson they need. >> yes, that's what it sounded like from jay powell yesterday, we learned by experience. >> reducing the balance sheet is jay powell's hot stove, right. >> yeah. >> it's the thing that really has -- he really learned and was chasing by that effort he'll approach that very slowly. i do know that the fed thinks that's the least predictable tool that it has much more information on how to do things with interest rates than it does with reducing the balance sheet. so i think that's the third order of response. they may get there, but they'll tread gingerly in that regard. >> in closing, steve, i think one way to look at the message

to the markets was party on, garth. i think that was it. >> i think you're right. >> go for it. >> i think you're right. >> you saw it in the tech stocks >> yeah. but here's the thing, is that the right thing? >> yeah, i don't know. i think it's -- >> you have the copyright. >> is that the right thing is that going to address inflation? >> exactly that's a long-term worry, though the markets, make me chase but not right now. that's such a great expression to use all the time. thank you, steve. yesterday we heard from the fed, apparently. today we'll hear from the central bank's counter parts across the atlantic, the european bank is due in the next half hour. and we'll get housing starts and jobless claims for the month of november and earnings, fed ex, adobe and

rivian all set to release today. when we return we'll have more on today's top corporate stories including an internet company announcing i.p.o. plans and an executive shuffle at amazon. later don't miss lee cooperman, coming up at 8:00 a.m. eastern time. we'll find out how he's feeling at this point. in the past he's been a bull, but a reluctant one. e wie' llee how he's feeling right now after the fed. "squawk box" will be right back. as an independent financial advisor, i stand by these promises: i promise to be a careful steward of the things that matter to you most. i promise to bring you advice that fits your values.

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welcome back to "squawk box" this morning reddit announcing it's filed with the s.e.c. to go public but did not make that filing available. it hasn't disclosed how many shares would be offered or the price range. after the funding in august they had a valuation of $10 billion, at the same time reddit said it reached $100 million in ad revenue in 2021 up 192 from the prior year the latest social network of sorts to go public and i imagine there's going to be a lot more focus and attention on perhaps some of the content on reddit as it goes public as well, joe. >> yeah. be interested when that happens. we know some people that have some things to do with reddit, don't we, some of our friends?

and the amazon shuffle is what they called this. amazon making an executive change naming the former head of prime, neil lindsey to senior vice president of health and brand. he's going to be in charge of the online pharmacy, telehealth and health diagnostic units and continue to oversee amazon's global brands and marketing efforts. lindsey is on the s-team a group of executives that report to the c ceo, hugh -- no, andy jesse, not hughes. >> andy is not a well known guy, came as a surprise when he was put in that position, including to him and it's just -- you know, he's a guy who's focused. this article was incredibly interesting. want to learn more about hum. >> i have plausible deniability

of why i messed up his name. covid outbreaks taking a toll on professional sports teams. the latest when "squawk box" comes right back

welcome back to "squawk box" this morning the covid outbreak hitting broadway, multiple shows have scrapped performances because of positive tests and concerns about contagion, including "tina," "harry potter," and little shop of horrors. and nyu canceling nonacademic

events and encouraging students to do final exams online apple has once again delayed plans to return people to the office there's no new date set. it's also closed three retail locations after a rise in cases at those stores. earlier apple announced all employees and customers irrespective of being vaccinated would have to wear masks we're clearly seeing the cases rise across the country, becky. >> i don't know if you saw the headlines out of the uk, they're talking about the highest levels of covid cases they've seen since the pandemic began and that's causing some concerns, too, especially when you think about what scott gottlieb told us a few weeks ago about the dem demographics are similar to the uk, that's why we think what's likely to happen there is going

to happen there. >> a generation of kids robbed of what i thought was the best four years of my life. >> college, horrible. >> seven years of all that hard work not to joke about it my daughter, there was no college experience and it's continuing i think it's like two and a half years of totally not what college was -- >> and high school, too. >> it's sad. you can't get that back. >> i know. >> you can never get that back in your life it is what it is obviously, you know, that's probably not the worst thing to take away from the pandemic. just another bad thing >> it's a reminder of how many things have been changed, altered or taken away, whether it's christmass you're talking about. that's why people are tired, i'm not going another christmas without seeing my family it's difficult decisions to make here in the itemunited stat the i feel's covid problem is

getting worse. over 100 players have tested positive since monday and two thirds are asymptomatic. the omicron variant has been detected in test results for multiple teams the league recently completed an antibody study of 572 staff members and found they had low levels of antibodies despite being fully vaccinated in response the nfl stepped up booster requirements players are not required to be vaccinated but they face stricter protocols including daily testing. the good news is it's mild from what they've seen in this and obviously they're testing so frequently there they're picking up a lot of stuff. >> similar story, in the nhl, dozens of hockey players have been added to the covid protocol list since sunday. several teams have postponed games, including the calgary flames with 17 members on the list in the nba about 25 players were

in the league's health and safety protocol as of yesterday afternoon. the chicago bull's rescheduled today's game against toronto, ten bull's players have entered protocol since december 1st. while we're on the nba, the arc on the winning shot, look at this arc, almost too unbelievable to believe. we saw rutgers last week check out the ending too last night's game between the thunder, oklahoma city and new orleans, this off balance, 30 footer right here. goes in. >> swish. >> to tie the game with 1.4 seconds left. this is what happened from there. >> devontae sends it oh a game winner >> either one would have been worth the highlight. look at the response from the pelicans devonte graham, he's the one that launched it, 61 feet, bank

g it through the basket for the win. look at how happy these guys are. both teams are in last place in their respective decisions. >> any given night. >> and yet fighting to the end like that and cheering once again, tears in my eyes i guess as i think about what sports -- so awesome we go from covid protocol to -- and then something like that can still happen really great kentucky player i'm told act actually, not on the -- right, evans? yeah exactly. versus devonte >> meantime, coming up after all that, a huge payday. this guy scoring his own swish of sorts the boss, bruce springsteen, reportedly selling his music rights to sony

the price tag, half a billion dollars. we'll talk about it as we head to a break a look at yesterday's s&p 500 winners and losers

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bruce springsteen has sold his music rights to sony in a deal that may exceed half a billion dollars. "the new york times" reported the deal which includes his catalog and his body of work as a song writer. if the price tag is correct, it's the biggest deal of its kind bob dylan sold to universal music last year for an estimated $300 million, and i remember thinking at the time what an eye popping number it was. but bruce springsteen has a long time that he's been doing this and a big catalog, right, andrew >> it's amazing. the real question is at this point in his career. you sell it, then what do you do with the money >> what if you don't sell it >> what would the catalog do otherwise? >> if you keep them.

>> don't you think david bowie is glad he sold his. >> then it becomes part of your estate i imagine and then what does sony do with it, how do they exploit it >> i wonder if it would be hard to see like all of a sudden your songs popping up in ads of stuff you don't like, losing control of it. >> taylor swift knows -- >> knows it all too well. >> what about the squawk archives. >> i don't think we own those. you and i and andrew somebody else has rights to those. >> do you think we're really missing out on a big payday? >> i don't think we're worth half a billion. >> when they sell squawk nfts, you'll feel like you're missing out. >> there will be on run on -- i'm not sure i'm not so sure. you know what, let's do what -- what's his name, we had him on, let's start talking about how much they're worth on the show and then citing "squawk box" as

these nfts are -- >> that was a great business model. what happened there? do we know >> i think that he -- the last report that i read and and sol of the work i did on this a couple of weeks ago is that there's an investigation going on -- >> never mind, then. >> they're looking at the situation in terms of misleading -- potentially misleading investors and whether that took place. >> i would settle for a squawk coffee mug we haven't had one in about 12 or 14 years. >> coming up a priceless squawk nft, called priceless by becky. >> no. that was all you don't tag it back to me. >> do you remember the newspaper article movers and shakers, what do you think that's worth now, when we got it signed by everyone >> it was icons and rebels. >> yes i looked at that the other night, thought oh my god we had trump. >> warren buffett.

>> robert johnson. >> yeah. >> and i have one, it's totally signed >> i have one too. >> we should give that to charity. >> take andrew's run at the nft of that. >> turn it into an nft, then you can make as many as you would. >> mohammed e leanian is on there too. >> jack welsh. >> yeah. >> coming up, when we return, we have some new results from cnbc's millionaires survey maybe there's an nft in that don't miss our interview later with leon cooperman, giving us his take on the market, feds, and so much more you can watch or listen to us live any time on the cnbc app. literally right now. beautiful shot, live there of times square right outside the nasdaq market site

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welcome back, everybody. markets were up big yesterday and the trend is continuing this morning. dow futures up right now by 372 points almost as much as they were up yesterday. they were up yesterday by about 383 points nasdaq futures up significantly too. the nasdaq yesterday was up by 2% and this morning the futures indicated up by about 164 points and the s&p which was up by 75 yesterday indicated up almost 50 points today if we are to open at this evangelicals in a few hour's time, you'll be looking at a record intraday high for the s&p 500. let's get to robert frank with numbers from the latest cnbc millionaires survey. what did you learn

>> the number one economic worry for millionaires right now is inflation. when asked to rank the biggest threat to the economy, inflation ranked first next to government dysfunction. that is according to the cnbc millionaire survey that polls investors with $1 million or more in investable assets most say inflation is here to stay rather than temporary there is an emerging generation gap, baby boomers four times more likely to cite inflation, and twice as likely to say interest rates will be higher a year from now. on the whole, optimistic about the economy, markets and the fed's response saying they're confident in the fed's ability to manage inflation. most expect the s&p to be up at least 5% next year only 9% plan to reduce their equity exposure.

their favorite sectors for the next 12 months are tech, financials and health care they're worried about inflation but feel the markets and the fed can handle it. guys >> i guess it's not a huge surprise that people who are millionaires are worried about inflation. especially if you just became a millionaire. you finally made it and a million is not worth what it used to be maybe not a surprise that baby boomers are more worried too because they're more likely to be retired or close to retirement >> well, remember, inflation means different things for different income groups, for most it means rising prices on everything they buy every day. for the wealthy and millionaires it comes through on the interest rate side. they're worried about rising rates. otherwise assets do well at a time of inflation, talking about real or the stock market it are the rising rates that are the concern.

so far a little more optimistic about a modest increase in rates as opposed to a dramatic jump. that's why i think they're more optimistic for them it's about the rates, for most of america, about the rising prices. >> thank you, robert good to see you. coming up, we'll talk strategy after yesterday's big fed announcement futures right now, they're looking up people are happy raises lots of questions about what's going to happen to inflation, in fact later don't miss viacom, cbs's ceo chris cahymcrt is going to join us live this morning. this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan

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welcome back to "squawk box. markets enjoying a relief rally yesterday. this after fed chair jay powell eliminated at least one big uncertainty. powell signalled the fed would double the rate at which it would taper its bond purchases and could hike rates as many as three times next year for more on how this could affect the markets we're joined by con top lis and lisa erikscssonericsson. good morning to both of you. we were talking earlier, i don't know if the you heard steve liesman, mike. the issue of effectively whether jay powell -- he may be sticking the landing in certain ways but maybe he's really not because the truth is that if the markets love it, maybe inflation doesn't

go away. >> that's a really good point. i probably take a little bit of a different angle. i think the fed re-established some credibility yesterday they said no matter what happens, even if employment doesn't go to, you know, where they expect it to go they're going to fight inflation first and foremost that removes, as you said earlier, a huge amount of uncertainty. that's what the markets want the markets know how to deal with a fed that's tightening with liquidity that's going away but they don't know how to deal with is higher inflation that runs away from the markets and that's something we haven't had to deal with in a few decades. so the market, i think, is telling us on the equity and the fixed income said that actually the opposite, the fed has re-established credibility, they're going to fight inflation, tighten liquidity and that removal of uncertainty should be good for stocks and should be good for credit.

at least from the perspective they can now trade on fundamentals and that's the most important thing is you want equities and you want fixed incomes to trade on fundamentals not an unknown of runaway inflation in the future. >> isa, you believe the party is over? it's not over? the it looks like the party is still on >> andrew, we're still positive on the equity market and really the reason why is if you look at the overall macro landscape, what you see is that most indicators continue to remain in solid territory. if you look at corporate earnings we have a nice case of continued rises and increases in the revisions and estimates for 2022 so with that, and again to mike's point, with some of that uncertainty around fed policy removed yesterday, we continue to remain optimistic on the market and obviously will want to watch the incoming data particularly on inflation, as we have all been talking about. but again the base case is on the bullish side

>> mike, if you're as bullish as you are, what do you do about it if you're watching right now -- >> i would say -- >> go ahead. >> i wouldn't necessarily say i'm incredibly bullish i said now we can trade on fundamentals the fact of the matter is, earnings are probably peaking in q4 and likely to slip at the macro level next year. i couldn't wouldn't say e we're uber bullish we think there are cyclical areas of the market that continue to perform well in the first half of 2022 and on the rate side, i would say i'd tilt on the more bearish side, knowing that the fed, remember, goes back to that certainty i mentioned knowing that the fed is likely going to hike rates, knowing that the terminal rate is likely higher than what the market currently expects we can, with some degree of certainty, take inflation, the future fed's fund a rate, the

reduction of the balance sheet, certainly relative to gdp, if you look at economic growth, which is probably going to be stronger than most expect, then rates are going higher, too. i'm not necessarily incredibly bullish, but i am bullish on the fact that markets can now trade on fundamentals, whether that be rate or equity markets we do see chop in 2022 as earning growth starts to decline. we see higher rates, we see a higher ten year. and you know, we think the if fed has kind of set us up for that next year >> mike and lisa, thank you both we will see what happens next year wish you a happy new year and hope to talk to you soon. >> thank you >> thanks. when we return, we're going to talk about a stock that's been on a tear in the last few months look at it right now it also happens to be one of our next guest's top picks for 2022. find out what it is, you have to stick around right now as we head to a break. check out shares of apple, that

stock would have hit a $3 trillion market cap at a price of $182.86 a little further from that today, $180.91 it is up about $1.61, but again we were within spitting distance earlier this week. a little more of a hike rit gh now. stay tuned, "squawk box" will be right back

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our next guest has some names to consider, possibly for your portfolio as we head into the next year, including one we showed you before the break. there it is. as you there it is as you can see up this morning maybe on anticipation of what anne barry is going to say, chief investment officer at wheelhouse i can't wait to get your individual picks but what did you make of the nasdaq yesterday and technology in general after what we heard from the fed how do you interpret what the tech was the telling us yesterday about j. powell? >> well, i think despite ultimately sad was when the retail investor had huge confidence, it was interesting to hear robert frank say earlier on in the show today that when it came to the millionaire survey, it was bullish on tax.

so despite the rate hikes coming, which you would have expected on the optimism being around the tech oil state, i think things are going to see confidence in retail investors in 2022. i think they may think there is some value to be found right now. >> how many names are you bringing i know you like amazon as well, paypal, i saw cramer tweeting about paypal earlier take your pick where you want to go what do you like paypal is up almost $5 today >> yeah. paypal is one that's interesting to me. this is one particularly as we move into 2022, some of the tech stocks are going to see folks get more discerning. paypal is one of the "star wars". it has a healthy cash balance. it is fighting a lot of competitive fire, whether it's coming from buy now/pay later or other forms of peer-to-peer payments what i like is it has huge white space, whether it's off crypto,

it has 319 million users i think at a time when time is innovation and paypal can go into i think it's relative valuation on a tech basis is pretty attractive >> you are looking for value, road blocks, do you like it after the sell-off and you think the future is bright for the company's businesses >> well, look, full disclosure, i came in earlier this year, sort of the sell-off that happened i personally have felt the down jondrop to that. it's a user platform, sitting at the intersection of the community and it's really captured eyeballs of the younger generation that otherwise has been quite hard to reach at scale, it has 200 monthly average users. here's what it's doing it is pioneering with music and games, roblox, the likes have

had huge concepts break on that platform brand partnership have been picking up in ernest i think the things that nike did, for example, in buying artifact this week shows they are trying to figure out the metaverse. so i think this is one that's moving quite quickly into a new version of social media. so i liked it before i got burnt on the high valuation and the big attractive sell-off happening now in 2022 >> so in education, you don't think the market understands what it could do in that arena in >> i spent my time on the private investing side, i see interesting businesses backed by deeper equity pockets in the states which attack. you think about the dig dem grafgs, you got millennial's now as their families are created and as kids get older, the millennial generation is tech

savvy. they're looking for different ways to educate a kid, particularly after covid that forced lots of kids to go home in their education and something like roblox, we haven't seen it disrupted and majors should applied to that story. >> you like amazon and tech. walmart is not a tech name i throw that in there, too is there anything else i know you got just about every single, that covers the whole gamut. not quite. to the effect of the retail model? >> well, here's what i like about amazon you know, there is the announcement today from a metal lick perspective going to double down on the developing of the health offering. i think what i have always done is they are very aggressive when it comes to pioneering new technologies and new end markets. they'll double down and cut losses when it fails i think i have seen it in other parts of that tech space is move to telehealth.

i think virtual reality will be an increasing part of it i think the idea that you've got direct-to-consumer diagnosis as well as prescription on place in amazon to meet the amazon retail platform amazon you will teach a good healthcare business at scale and also when you think about what's going on right now in terms of advertising, for the traditional consumer perks businesses, it can become a complete black held, they can't get the data they need, whereas amazon and walmart provide it in a much differentiated fashion >> all right anne, thank you. wheelhouse, all these things are interesting for us, outside your wheelhouse. >> we do have breaking news from delta air lines. phil le beau joins us. he has the details what itself the news >> hey, becky, check out shares of delta, i haven't had a chance to look at them. the company giving an updated

guidance if terms of what it expects for the fourth quarter the company is expecting a profit of approximately $200 million. why is that significant? previously, the company was expected to report a loss for the fourth quarter remember when we talked with ed bastian a couple months ago, he said it will be a rough quarter. they are expecting a profit of $200 million versus a loss in the foushl first quarter you do not want to miss this interview first son cnbc we will be talking with ed what it is not just for the fourth quarter but 2022 and how they're mapping with this resurgence of covid-19 cases around the world and here in the u.s. and what the impact might be as we look into the first quarter and the first half of the year you don't want to miss that interview coming up in a little bit. back to you. >> you definitely do not, we're looking forward to it. 'still ahead, we will be

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good morning, you are watching "squawk box" right here on cnbc. i am andrew ross sorkin along with becky quick and joe kernon. let's show you the u.s. equities this hour after j. powell made the comments yesterday, which the markets seem to like the way he will approach tapering. the dow up 360 points higher s&p up 40 points up and nasdaq up as well 150 points. joe. >> we have breaking news from regeneron, meg tirrell joins with us more hi, meg. >> hey, joe. regeneron now saying that there are data showing that their monoclonal antibody cocktails lose potency against the omicron data there are actual lab data. they confirm this cocktail had potency against the dell that which is the dominant variant circulating. omicron is growing quickly

they say they have next generation drugs active. we are now seeing the lab data coming out here and it's fairly concerning if we don't yet have the anti-viral doctor ug from pfizer and merck, which do stand up against the variant as you wait to get them updated as we need them to be against omicron, guys >> yeah. that probably, watching the stop, watching the overall averages, it's an anti-body monoclonal we know about vaccine generated anti-bodies to omicron are far less effective than to the other variants why wouldn't the monoclonal be expected to be less effective. is this surprising in anyway,

meg, thing eanything that we miv assumed? >> this was expected a. paper came out, a pre-print, not a peer preview from dr. david ho at colombia looking at all of the vaccines, all three and the astrazeneca and all of the monoclone am antibodies. the results were pretty sobering across the board some did hold up slightly better than others. the biotech gfk had the most potency, not to the same extent as the other antibodies and anti-body cocktails. it's where they target the spike or the virus and we know that we said they've got a next generation that holds up against omicron that has moved through some human clinical trials companies are moving fast. we have to see what that gap looks like as only chron does

move so fast >> what concerns me the most is the idea the company can start human trials in the first quarter. i know that's just around the corner f. you are talking starting human trials at that point, it will be a while since they are required before you get that to market especially when you talk about the rate that omicron seems to be spreading at. >> yes so we're going to have regeneron ceo joining us in about a half hour we can talk with him about what he thinks the regulatory pathway looks like here. they have to go through clinical trials or an expedited pathway the same way we talked about with the vaccines using the anti-body data to clear booster shots, for example so, these are all questions that will need to be answered but i think that is the big concern right now is omicron becomes more dominant, will our drugs hold up? and will we have the solutions for them like the anti-virals

soon enough? >> hey, meg. i know we can talk about this later as well, but we often don't talk about this pfizer pill as a magic poettient in may ways there will only be 10 million available in the early parts of 2022 i don't know what you think that time line looks like in the uk, if they're reporting 80,000 cases today, or yesterday, you start to extrapolate out 10 million pills or 10 million doses, they would go very, very quickly. >> yeah. so the u.s. has ordered 10 million courses for all of next year at this point we don't know if they could order more and when will those get delivered, the pace of that at the end of this year, pfizer will have 580,000 courses in total that gets up to 80 million next year and they're increasing their capacity further are you right, we don't know

what the supply will look like immediately, many models are suggesting it could be peaking in january what will the supply be like then we have folks to get tested and get their results quickly so they can take the pills if cleared within three-to-five days >> so, dr. fauci was saying, whether we need a booster -- an omicron-specific booster do you think we need oem chrone specific epitopes for the spike protein to make injectable momen omicronal -- do you think regeneron will develop omicron-specific monoclonals >> well, they do have these next generation ain't bodies they say retain potency against omicron i don't know if they're specific because they target delta and variants of concern. of course, the best solution would be one that works against

a lot of different variants and doesn't only target one variant. >> it's the spike protein that is so mutogenic. it is a concern for one of the other more important enzymes thank you, meg i appreciate that. as you can see, len schlifer is coming up when first on cnbc at 7:30. awesome. meantime, the fed announcing it will be aggressively dialing back at bond buying. it expects to start raising interest rates next year this has been the huge moves for the markets, steve >> yeah, i have breaking news, becky, i didn't tell you about what is coming here the bank of england, we're just getting this became the first central bank raiding it 0.25.

getting back on the fed, i think the story is not that it reversed course and remove stimulus more quickly and forecast rate hikes. the market's benign upbeat reaction the stock rally looks to be gathering more steam joe was pointing this out, the most remarkable turn around is the hard-hit nasdaq. it rallied a at 2:00 p.m found another leg against j. powell's conference. the market expecting a more hawkish bet than had been telegraphed. instead, the fed met expecta expectations we duesing asset by 30 billion per month. the fed chair suggests the maximum employment criteria was pretty darn near they projected three rate hikes next year. three more in 2023

markets cheered benign rate outlook and powell's response when asked, why the fed keeps buying assets even while inflation is high. >> we learned in dealing with balance sheet issues, we learned it's best to take a careful sort of methodical approach to make adjustments. markets can be sensitive to it we thought this was a doubling of the speed we are two meetings away now from finishing the tape early. we thought that was this appropriate way to go. so we announced it, that's what will happen. >> the question now is not the feds will raise rates, it's priced in for the first rate hike we will take a look at the outlook tomorrow with fed president john williams right here on "squawk" at 8:30 becky. >> definitely something to look forward to steve, what, obviously, all of them think independently they're not thinking as one body so you will have difference of

opinion about this but when you are talking to dudley about this, to john williams about this, what is the issue that you really want top get at what is the key question that will help you understand more about what their thinking is >> i'm interested in her to thinking how they will address inflation. what the upside is in terms, upside, what is the utmost they can do in terms of raising rates in terms of fighting inflation, when they think that will happen the question i asked powell yesterday was hey, listen, if milton freedman was right that there were long and variable lags to policy, when you start raising rates in march or even may, you don't get aniesque on that on inflation for six months or a year down the road. interestingly, powell's response was, he doesn't see the variables as long or as variable as they were when professor

freedman gave that famous quote. he thinks the market reaction is more immediate and that's one of the things that i happen to know gives the fed some confidence in their ability to fight inflation, which is this idea that they can speak and the market will react. which is interesting, because the fed spoke yesterday and the market kind of reacted the other way. >> yeah. and, of course, freedman wasn't dealing to fix that balance sheet when he was looking at this stuff, too. lots changed over the course of time >> right >> steve, thank you. >> that's very important. >> we will see you just a little later. andrew >> okay, thanks, becks meantime, we want to go over to dom chu with a look at what is moving in the pre-market well, it looks like almost everything >> i mean, i'm laughing because it's true. it's funny because it's true to what becky and steve were just talking about, the market re, a as curious as it was, may suggest there was some positioning already done well ahead of this and that that

positioning was in fact maybe correct or a little off just slightly with regard to the bullish tilts we see in the markets, not only yesterday but today as well f. you want to put the epicenter of this, the banks, certainly some movers yesterday and then on the heels of that this morning, a slew of different an a list teams across wall street that companies financials are all coming out with various research notes talking about which banks are the best positions, the ones who can benefit the most from a fed rate cycle one of the names, we like to talk about j. president moroccan, citiciti-- j.p. morgan and citigroup and back of america and gold man sachs, the general rate race cycle could be coming down the pike

watch the numbers, certainly in focus there. elsewhere in the market, we are seeing movement in certain key parts, maybe the more volatile markets, you can see since the ipo, it's down about 48/49%. the reason why we will keep in focus today is analysts over at bank of america have been issued a coverage of robinhood markets at an under performed price target they think overall the market is under appreciating some of the headwinds it can face with regards to stimulus being withdrawn and the trading volumes in crypto maybe not being sustained. so watch robinhood and lennar is probably, the last i checked, the biggest pre-mark declineer in the s&p on the heels of its owner report, down 7% right now, a hot market interest rates driven probably by the fed but it comes out with earnings that missed expectation on revenues that beat, implying perhaps the housing market

remains hot but the soaring costs for lumber and constituent products led to earnings declines there so lennar, earnings come short of expectations, revenue beat, guys, i'll sends things back over to you. >> okay the domino after domino. thanks, man. coming up, when we return, delta ceo ed bastian and the overall sector we got that interview coming up right here on "squawk. futures right now are looking up j. powell is making the market happen today, dow up about 334 points nasdaq up 132 points s&p 500 up 232 points. we are back after this -aflac! -i love my gold jacket, but that aflac blue feels so right. when you feel right, you coach right. i know that's right! prime never believed in double coverage, but health insurance and aflac...is money. ♪ must be the money ♪ and i know how coach prime feels about money. -aflaaaac. -♪ aaahhhh ♪ now that is what this jacket needs.

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dell to giving the street an update on what the airline is expecting in 2022. phil le beau joins us right now with a special guest hi again, phil. >> hi, becky let's bring in ed bastian, ceo of delta air lines we have thenews, updated guidance for the fourth quarter. you were expecting a loss, swinging to a profit of around $200 million what's changed in the fourth quarter that you guys will now have a profitable fourth quarter? >> good to see you, phil good to be in new york it's been a while.

>> yes >> we've had a really strong close to the year. the holiday bookings particularly for christmas and the new year's holiday are coming in very strong. a lot of people getting back out, seeing people they haven't seen and a good thanksgiving, too. the combination of the stronger revenues and moderation in fuel prices will result in a profit for us, the second quarter in a row of profits, the only airline one of two majors in the world airlines that will be profitable the back half of this year. >> the final ten days, this period here, is it eclipsing what you saw in 2019 put it in some perspective. >> we measure on unit revenues when you look at a revenue basis, we expect for the next two weeks to be up not an insignificant amount above where we were in 2019. which is encouraging as we go into 2022. >> let's talk about the longer range ouvenlth you had the investor range today

you would expecting to eclipseing where you were, near term, you will see higher costs available per seat mile will be substantially increased relative to 2019. where are those costs coming in? is it the additional hiroshimas that are taking place, bringing more fleet on? where is that cost increase coming from? >> the single biggest cost factor we are facing now wind chill le face over the next couple years is scale in efficient sichlt as we bring the airline fully back up, we will be able to scale the airline right now, we're only flying roughly for next year 90%. but we own 100% of the costs as we bring the airline up, we are seeing pressure on certain costs as you mentioned, supply chain costs, certain volatility in fuel, labor costs will be growing, continue to grow. it will be a pressure point for us we expect by the time over the next couple years we are fully

back up. we will be darn close to where we were in 2019. >> andrew, i know you got a question for fred. >> i want to get your thoughts i don't know if you saw this hearing of your colleagues, i am sure you did, gary kelly of southwest made a comment that he doesn't believe that masks passengers should necessarily be masked on airplanes, according to him, quote, it doesn't do much do you agree >> andrew, unfortunately, i missed the hearing yesterday, i was in new york here with the governor of the state as we're break grounds on our new jfk final expansion so i did not see the comments i don't know that i agree with gary's remarks i think particularly as we see omicron continuing to enter into our country, masks will be important as a safeguard for a while yet. >> how much are bookings being sorry to interrupt, andrew, how

much are bookings being preferred by omicron, where are you noticing it? is it international, further out? near term, you are seeing still strong demand right now? >> yes so it won't impact our holidays, we will see it in our bookings into january and beyond prince ply in the trans-atlantic, places you'd expect, heathrow wherever you put in travel restrictions tell aviva, et cetera. it's here in the u.s. all right. i expect it will be here as the dominant strain in the next few weeks here in the u.s. we are prepared for it for us the first quarter is the weakest part of our year so we are already prepared to be battered down in terms of capacity but at the same time what we're learning about it seems like it could be less severe, we have more tools and techniques to manage it effectively. and because it's so contagious,

it will move pretty past the hopefully, it's not going to stall in our country so we'll get through this wave and the doctors have been sharing with me that they think this could very well be the final phase of the pandemic and we move into an endemic with tools to manage it so we're very optimistic about our spring and summer outlook. >> andrew, i'm sorry, i cut you off, you guys have more questions for fred here? i think joe does or you can ask it, ed, just in hindsight, just update the controversy we talk about every day on mandates do they work are they effective are they counterproduct sniff you took one tact. others took another tact i'm hoping that omicron is less onerous so that things like lockdowns or mandates all those things maybe we view omicron a little differently, although, then you worry if omicron became

too widespread that there could be a mutation because it existed to something worse so it's all a part -- how do you think about it at this point what should the reaction be for your industry? which is maybe right at the front line for what gets effective in the most, global travel >> well, first of all, on the vaccination front, are you right, we did not mandate the vaccine, delta i am pleased to say we are over 97% vaccinated or small numbers granted exceptions through employees that had medical or personal religious convictions that they were unable to get vaccinated and so we're going to continue to run down that last 2 or 3%. so it worked for us. mandates continue to be highly divisive we have been able do it. we trust our employees to make the right decisions for themselves we are watching omicron, what's happened in south africa with great interest we're watching the uk.

the uk is probably a month or six weeks ahead of us. what you see is probably what you will see here. i do think as we said earlier, we got a lot more tools to manage this thing. hopefully, it's the outcomes that will be much less severe than prior variants and that will give people confidence that we don't need to go back in lockdowns. we don't need to go backwards. i think offices may be returned. international travel will be delayed. you are talking maybe a couple months, not the entire year. >> which then brings up the question i heard from others, when it comes to corporate travel, where they're noticing resistance are the largest companies. the largest clients in their portfolio who might be a little bit more hesitant especially as they rethink these return-to-work situation and what they're going to do what are you noticeing and are you also noticing what i am hearing from the others in the industry, which is small business is traveling like crazy right now? >> oh, it is, it is. right now, in total our business

travel is back to 60% in terms of volume. where it was in 2019, so we're making pretty good progress. i expect it will hang in that 60% range the next couple months as the oemion wave moves through this country small business is probably closer to 75% restored and the large corporation as you say are down closer to the 50% level a lot is tied to office reopening. we see a direct correlation as offices are reopened and people are returning to office. that's the trigger to get back out on the road. but i am optimistic. we all have a point of view as to what will happen to the future of business travel, video conference will change it. also, we've got a lot more flexibility in the workplace flexibility means people have the ability wherever they travel, there will be new forms of travel that will be recrated. we are entering into a pretty good growth rate we are looking at gr dp

assumptions of 10% higher total gdp in our country it will spurt more travel as well >> ed bastian, ceo of delta air lines before the company's investor day in new york flood good to have you here. >> coming up, what the market has learned from 2021. what should we end up not really sure which and then regeneron says an anti-body drug used to treat covid loses its potency, the ceo leonard shslifer will be here

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now the answer to today's aflac trivia question. which state produces the most christmas trees? the answer -- north carolina the state produces 4.7 million trees a year oregon is second with 4 million tr trees. it's a year that started with mean stocks and crypto soaring and a crash in growth tech valuations. so far standing as the eb stock and inflation both soaring and another crash in growth tech valuations so has the market learned is lesson john fort weighs in. jeopardy the other night had all these smh. i didn't know that was shake my head all these things, i know otoh. >> there you go.

>> don't you >> i do. i do both hands when it comes to the market, yes, it has learned its lesson sanity is back things got out of hand for a bit. remember january when go gamestop went from $70 to 380 and amc from 2 bucs to 270 in june stay-at-home plays are coming back to earth. peloton and zoom were at insane levels peloton is up 38.50. same with zoom 350 in january 185 now this is the proverbial punch bowl leaving the party that's a good thing. these moves at least confirm we're not in a bubble. people do know how to sell the air coming tout of a lot of goat-oriented stock is a good sign koupa topped 172 now to 272. it's pain. for people that bought at euphoric highs, but it's healthy

longer term. this sets up 2022 to a year a bit more about fundamental also when we can look at sales growth, cash flow, margins, get a sense of where stocks will go, joe. >> yep but the s&p, john, just shy of all-highs. so what's really changed >> well, joe, on the other hand, no, the market hasn't learned a thing. look at apple. 3 trillion dollar market cap just hit 3 trillion for the first time 16 months ago has the business model dramatic ally shifted no, same company why is it worth million. if tesla is worth nearly a trillion why shouldn't rivian be worth 100 billion. never mind they haven't massed proud vehicles while it's attempting to fall on the market sobriety. maybe not. national retailer is below $20 bucks, nearly the level four years ago when it went public.

coupla is more than 50% off its highs. this isn't sobriety. it's a market so overdock it both to the upside and the downside, that, joe, is what 2022 will have more of >> 2022 in either event won't be -- boring, it will be something to behold? >> well, this fed action, all this talk of variants mid-term elections, joe, yeah, i don't think it's going to be boring at all. >> is that a stretch or a question, beck >> boring in a heart beat right about now, i think everybody would. >> your mick was off >> oh, sign me up for boring i would say boring >> boring would be great >> john, it was weird, because the other day like gamestop you know, sort of came out ands underwelming i don't see the grand plan, really so that seemed like some air came out of it until the fed

seemed kind of dovish. now we're back to the red. it doesn't seem like it's based on normal metrics? >> it seems like short selling might be back, too so we'll see we'll see if wall street bets still has a lot of gas in the tank especially with reddit going public, right? >> exactly what we talked ability. otoh that's definitely not tmi. just the right amount. see yeah >> okay. >> still to come in just a moment, regeneron saying its quaint body drug used to treat patients with covid loses its potency against the omicron variant. company's ceo leonard schleifer will join us the market is rallying on yesterday's fed news, seeing be ig gains for the session we talk to the top an a lists of what to expect from the banks in 22 stay tuned you are watching "squawk" on cnbc

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jtsdz jtsdz. >> some big news in the fight against covid. >> regeneron just a few moments ago saying its anti-body drug used to treat patients with covid loses potency against the omicron variant. the ceo of regeneron joins us live to discuss, leonard schsc

schleifer joins us your county body drug holds up against delta, which is the circulating variant. does it mean if omicron becomes dom napinant in certain areas y drug should no longer be use ed? there are a couple things how we approach all this. first of all, vaccinate, vaccinate, boost, boost, boost, it's still the best way to get people protected and wear masks, socially distant. thursday night poker game, playing one, keep it up for a while. we're in the midst of a surge. now our anti-body cocktail works against delta. delta is still surging so we want to direct that therapy to people who have delta. if omicron starts to surge, we need county bodies that work against only chron by the way, i think you covered it on the news very well the other night, meg, it's possible delta will surge, the flu will surge and so will omicron so we're going to need a fool tooth

kit here we are excited to say we have a host of new anti-bodies which can work against both omicron and delta. so while the current cocktail doesn't, this sort of emphasized the need to play the long game here we got new anti-bodies we've tested they work against both delta and omicron. we hope to get in the clinic early next year with those we will work with the fda. by the way, i should say, people think the healthcare workers, the doctors, nurses, the scientists at the companies and academia pay gratitude to the fda. they're killing themselves looking at every sort of thing so we're looking to hopefully working with them and trying to get the next generation as initially as possible because it has to play an important role in the toolkit against covid. >> i want to ask you about what you think that regulatory process might look like.

before we go there, as you mentioned, there is a philosophy now we might see omicron and delta co-circulating, in which case, we need to figure out which ones folks have to decide to get your county body drug is it possible to do that quickly enough, to administer the county bodies, using pcr tests that have that target failure marker or can there be rapid genome sequencing to determine the variants so many have >> it's a really important point f. you think about if you have an antibiotic infection. you go to the hospital, we don't randomly guess, we contest whether the anti-boycotted chosen matches up against the bacteria you got i think we will have to be in the business the technology is there. it's not where everybody would like us to be in terms of scale, speed, point of care and soft. can i see a world, where we may have more than one variant circulating and we will need to pick and choose our weapons,

depending on which one that you have we don't need new technology for. this we have to figure out how to get that out a little bit more efficiently, get out to point of care so it turns around rapidly. we can distinguishes between omicron and delta and anything else that might come along >> you said these next generations, oh, go ahead, becky. >> i thought you were going to ask the question about the fda on this first c go ahead >> thanks. i am wondering, how quickly do you think niece new next generation antibodies can get through the regulatory process does it show big trials to show efficacy again or can there be some pathway that's created like we've seen for the vaccine >> i think that we're hoping, and we made a proposal just recently to the fda that we can usesome pathway that looks a little like the vaccines if you have a validated platform

that can select anti-bodies, that can test anti-bodies, scale anti-bodies, you can do this safely in terms of your manufacturing processes, i think we need to figure out a way that we can get this to patients on a large scale before the next variant shows up we don't want to be chasing our tail here so we look forward to working with the agency and trying to figure out efficient ways, but safe ways. that's always the tension. you don't want to go too fast. but you don't want to go so slow that you don't do so good. we think our pathways have proven themselves, time and time again. that's why we don't have to be in this for the long haul. omicron, the last letter in the greekle th alphabet. we have to have a scheme that allows us to deal with them efficiently but safely >> i want to ask you about the use of monoclone am anti-bodies

in patient population who is immunocomprised, at risk we've talked about this a lot. you have been advocating before the fda to give patients monoclone am as a preventative moshe e measure not if they have covid, the fda gave approval for astrazeneca to do that a week ago. do you know anything about your request or if that will be approved at some point >> we never know if it will be approved we hope. we know the fda is committed to locking at it. we're interacting with them. we will respond to any questions they may have. a lot of this is superseded by what is going to be out there. the concept of prevention with a monoclonal anti-bodies makes great sense. in reality, you got to make sure are you matching what you are giving somebody against what is out there. maybe will you have to have more than one preventative as this

just like you might need more than one vaccine as the variants start to emerge and new ones come this was a pretty scary mutation if you think about it, we used to see evolution as sort of step-by-step this was leap by leap, a giant leap from the delta, which has troublesome mutations in it. to all of a sudden something that has 30 or 40. you mentioned immun no comprise, there is stock exchangelation it percolated in an immunocomprised individual that's why we think it's so important to protect the immunocomprised from being affected with a variant that their body can't do. we have interesting data i can't talk about yet, which suggests in the real world

immunocomprised people can be helped with anti-bodies, but you got it i know you talk about it i know you are worried, i don't want to get into your personal family i know you mentioned on the air, not your mom i hope she is doing well, you can tell her we're working hard also to try to figure out the best way to deal with it >> it's not just my mom, it's the millions of people out there. >> kudos to you, becky i know we've talked about that are you not doing this, there is a whole 10 million people out there and this is something that we all want to address and we are working hard they issued the first with astrazeneca's product. good for them. we want to make one also none of us can make enough to supply the entire feed here. yeah, we're working on this. >> what's what i want to ask you about. i also want to ask you about the

trajectory of this particular variant, which is to say, given how it transmits and quickly and efficiently unfortunately it seems to do that maybe it will turn out to be fortunate, is it possible we have a wave, the wave effectively crests and by the time you are able to either come up with or have this new drug available or, frankly, even when pfizer is able to produce enough of their own pills that we're already going to be onto the next and how we should even think about that >> afternoon drew, you know, you've asked the question and i can give it to you a lot of smart people within the industry and government and academia are trying to wrestle with we're not used to at our home approaches in terms of those groups, we're develop ac drug let's say a drug for macular

degeneration or a drug for some allergic diseases such as really bad ecsema you don't have that urgency, when you get it, the disease isn't changing these infection diseases are changing like you are suggesting at such speed that we need whole new regulatory schema to deal with them the old no harm way has to be rethought. the greater harm is we do nothing. we have to weigh these things, people are thinking about this very carefully in the meanwhile, by the way, i got to say, mask, socially distant, get your booster. there are measures we can take right now. we have to go faster and figure this out >> an important message. len schleifer we appreciate you being here with us to untangle this information >> thanks, everybody

coming up, the fed announcement is now the time to buy the banks? that's the question. we will hear from a top an a list after the break about that back after thi s. as an independent financial advisor, i stand by these promises: i promise to be a careful steward of the things that matter to you most. i promise to bring you advice that fits your values. i promise our relationship will be one of trust and transparency. as a fiduciary, i promise to put your interests first, always. charles schwab is proud to support the independent

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you liked buffer heard yesterday, i am guessing nothing yesterday you heard changed your mind >> that's a good guess the headlines i think were largely as expected, accelerated. the taper. the dots moved in line with the futures market which is good but it's a bit of a biological weaponsing act for banks here. higher short-term rates from hiking would clearly be good for profitability f. bank investors were rooting for higher rates. on the other hand, aggressively hiking until something breaks would be backed for the economy and banks lubry indicates the economy. i think that's a little of what you saw yesterday afternoon, once you dug a little deeper into the message, it didn't seem as hawkish as some had feared, which is good for the economy, does that mean rates will go up as quickly you ambubalance it all out we see loan growth pickup.

i want to emphasize that, the question is, can it be sustained? i, obviously, think it will. >> i guess the bet on a soft landing for the fed. is that something you think will happen here in. >> who knows right. that's the best how have you an edge on what the fed will do i think coming out of all the extraordinary actions the last couple years with covid, i think they will air on the side of not knocking down the economies they've built up so that's going to be risks with banks out there. right? one is as you were suggesting a policy mistake until you hike until something breaks i think they will be careful about that in the near term, the first few hikes will be good for banks and bank stocks. the other thing is supervising the administration, less bank friendly than we had for the previous administration. that's the two big risks here. >> what is your favorite among

the banks? >> i mean, in general, i still like the big guys, the money centered banks, where they have the scale to not only become more efficient but also to continue investing in market and technology, i think bank of america, j.p. morgan, i don't think you can go wrong with either one of those. >> thank you, happy holidays >> good to be on okay worry going to talk about the streaming wars right now joining us is the president and ceo of via com cbs networks. it's great to see you. we are in the midst of a clearly streaming wars amazon plus playing a huge role for new all of this. i want to understand sort of how you are seeing this play out also how you are seeing the traditional legacy piece of this play out, both in terms of legacy television and also the film business. there was a lot of consternation

over last week's box office with stephen spielberg's film, whether something like that will never unfortunately be able to work anymore in the theater? >> listen, thanks for having me. we're making incredible progress we have a really unique strategy you can talk about our legacy business we're leveraging that legacy business, we are still to this day over 70% of all tv minutes are spent on linear. we're using that great ba is to launch a new series and bringing that to paramount plus, nine months in, we're already the fastest growing service in streaming. >> and when you think about your streaming service relative to what you are seeing out of nbc universe am, peacock, for example, netflix, is the -- how do you stack them? by the way what is your sense in terms of long term how viewers, how many of these services a viewer will ultimately have?

>> relative who what our competition is doing, we're playing a different game we're taking our big massive hits on linear, like yellowstone, we premiered back, it's already the number one show in the u.s. with 15 million viewers, year franchiseing those quickly to bring paramount plus. so for us, it's a unique strategy about franchiseing our biggest ip brigg it to the fan bass, it's working we feel great about the progress and the continued growth to point where how this will end, the winner will have the biggest set of ip. when we stand in that space, we feel great about what we've built. >> you mentioned yellowstone, which i became a new jersey hasn't of, did it occur to you when you sue rupert buy that ranch that he maybe has been watching yellowstone and they're

going to buy one of those stetsons even bought in montana but he's no kevin costner. do you think he will be out there actually like hanging around with the ranch hands? do you think he will brand people that come on to work there so they can't leave, >> >> a passion point with our audiences and outside that, of course, so, really have people find their inner cowboy and cowgirl. we feel great about the growth and welcome more people into the show it's more room for us to grow the launch new series for paramount plus. >> what did you make of chris wallace deciding streaming was the way to go? and cbs plus, how much money will they spend trying to make that a real thing do you think >> you know, generally speak whack cnn is doing, paramount plus has a unique strategy, which does include news.

we have one of the biggest legacy news organizations and cbs morning and that's one of our content wings. we're playing a different game where we have all content, kids, reality, scripted and news it's a proven strategy and why we are making rapid growth in fact, in november was our biggest month to date so certainly i think there are different strategies the one we have is unique and it's winning >> it wouldn't surprise to you know that there is a lot of folks on wall street and elsewhere who speculate a lot about whether the company you work for will ultimately get schooled and merged with another company and whether your company needs more heft. can you speak to that, to that idea, to the extent you say to yourself, we got to build this business to sell it? >> you know, as a creator, my job is to make the biggest mass

sets we k. and to really look towards the long-term investment of the ip we acraving. nielsen is a good one. south park is another winner the winners will be the ones with the biggest ip and biggest hits and best ip from that standpoint, we may be new to streaming, but we have been making massive hits over the years and massive ip bank we're starting to scratch the surface as we begin to franchise ip for streaming we feel good about the happened we have and look continue to growth >> chris, great to see you, we hope to have you back and do all this in person sooner or later for knnow, we will wish you a happy holidays >> thanks. >> when we come back, don't miss our exclusive interview we will on cooperman and harold ma'am him. and judy shelton on yesterday's

fed news stay tuned for skwuk on c nbc.

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b. good morning futures point to a strong open on wall street this follows the fed saying it's going to scoot up its basic bond brands, possibly hike rates three times next year. speaking of central banks, more breaking news this morning bank of england raising a key interest rate, central banks stands in the path for now we have a big lineup of guests to talk about all of the things and its impact on stocks, bonds and commodities. legendary invor leon cooperman will join us by harold hamm and former fed nominee judy shelton. the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now.

mpgs good morning, i'm bill kernon along with becky quick and andrew ross sorkin a big move we saw yesterday, it was interesting to watch as things were coming up, it took off into the close for a really big gain, a really big show, a really big gains this morning. the dow up over 300 points. nasdaq 100 instead a 70-plus move and today up another 40. look at treasury yields, which you would think would sit up and take notice to the fed or bank of england but 1.48% maybe a little higher. crude oil, harold hamm is going to weigh in on energy prices in just a couple of minutes. delta airlines out with

updated guidance this morning. the company is now projecting a $200 million fourth quarter profit the forecast had been calling for a loss for the quarter but the carrier says it is seeing strong holiday demand on its way to exceeding profit levels, delta ceo ed bastian joined us earlier in the show. >> a couple moderation and fuel prices will result in a profit for us, the second quarter in a row. the only major, two majors in the world airlines that will be profitable the back half of this year. >> take a look at shares of delta airlines up by more than 2 1/3 of that news the other airlines are trading higher delta is the biggest gainer. united up by 1.5% as is southwest. joe. >> beck, a little under 90 minutes now until the opening bell on wall street. dom chu joins us with a look at

the top pre-market movers. >> hey, joe, one of the big ones in the pre-market trade is ac sen sure -- accen shsure. it gives a much better outlook that analysts were looking for for the current quarter as well a. lot has to do with the at ther demand for services like maybe no shock cloud computing and cyber security that's driving a lot of the venture there and accenture shares up 10%. a notable upgrade in the market. we've talked a lot about at&t and just how much of a down trends it has been for years now at this point, by some measure, you can see here, the lowest levels that we've seen going all the way back to the great financial crisis, back in 2009, hovering near those low

levels they're up 2%. 28.50 a. lot has to do with an upgrade by analysts at morgan stanley who now call this an outperform or buy rating they think the shares have fallen enough to make them attractive they see near-term coming up watch those. then as we often do check on the most popular tickers search on cnbc from the prior day's full session. tesla, apple, inindividualia eli lilly, all up in a trade maybe a tailwind watch those shares and the pre-market trade, as always, you can find the rest of the top ten and highlights from the top 50 at the domino on my ticket feed. but we have breaking news this morning on mcdonald's. we will toss it over to kate rogers >> hey, dom, good morning. mcdonald's reached a settlement,

they brought against the former president and ceo steve easterbrooke returned cash valued at $105 million which the company said he would have forfeited had he been truthful at the time he was fired in november 2019 he would have been fired for cause instead of without cause he was accused of having sexual relationships with four snow subordinates in a statement, he said, quote, during my tenure as ceo i failed at times to uphold mcdonald's values and fulfill certain of my responsibilities as a leader of the company. i apologize to my former co-workers, the board and franchisees and suppliers for doing so the board adding in a message that even if the company moves on from this, a big lesson is continuing to quote foster a culture where the expectation is

that people will speak up in response to wrong doing. back over to you, becky. >> kate, thank you very much let's move on to our next guest and ask him about yesterday's fed decision and the broader markets. for that we welcome lee cooperman, it's good to see you this morning in the past, you have talked a little bit about how you are a fully-invested bear. you don't like this market you cannot get out of the way. and cannot trade it. how are you feeling right now? >> lee, i'm sorry, i think we are having a problem with your microphone, i don't know if that's picking up on the computer right now if you are wearing a microphone, it might be rubbing against your jacket at this point >> i don't have a microphone can you hear me. >> i can hear you. it's not a great connection with the audio. try talking again. let's see. >> sorry good morning, good morning, good morning. any better >> yeah, there is some static

that's taking place. i tell you what, we will take a quick break and get that static out of the way clearly a technical diffulicty we'll be back with lee just a few minutes

come on everybody, let's get to work. johnny, you're gonna be working with the number one choreographer in redshore city. wrong. i'm trying, he's freaking me out. tippy toes, tippy toes, i don't see your tippy toes. if you could just give me some dance lessons you would be saving my life. ♪ sky full of stars ♪ ♪ i think i saw you ♪ [ cheering ] that's my boy. welcome back to "squawk box. let's get back to our next guest, lee cooperman what do you think about the markets right now?

do like them any better than the last two times we talked to you? >> i would say i like them less well i'm still heavily invested but i make ally, it's the cyclical phenomena you know i think the causes of significant market declines are not present at the current time. most important is problematic inflation u. i think we have that remember the most important point we make, excuse me, inflation is a friend of common stocks the inflation gets incorporated in selling prices. it becomes a profitable market when the central bank is moving to cover inflation we have a central bank that has elevated societal issues relative to inflation. so we have a problematic acceleration of inflation. i think i was on the last time when i said i would tip my hat to mr. powell if he was right on inflation. i think inflation is much worse than he is allowing for.

i think they're moving in the direction where they will become less friendly. but the reality is, we have an inflation that's been accepted by the fed we don't have the historical negative high real interest rates that leads to reinvestigations in bear markets. so you know, we don't have an oncoming recession we are coming out of recession the market is very self correcting my theme has been there is one market out there there are three markets, the fang market. there is nothing overvalued against a 1.5% ten-year government bond rate, other than the buy, itself, is overvalued second market is the robinhood market which has gone cremated the third market is everything else can i find plenty of value in the market i don't see the class of conditions of overvaluation. every bear market and reinvestigation i've lived through has been led by high and rising real interest rates and we have negative interest rates

at the present time. and what the secretary powell said yesterday would suggest that would continue to be the case every time. but i think we're borrowing from the future, we have a negative longer-term view, nobody is paying attention to the explosion of debt in the country, in over four years, we've gone from 20 trillion of national debt to 30 trillion and that is going to be a problem. i think we've had very aggressive fiscal monetary policies that can come and bite us in the ass as in the old days >> you don't like what you are seeing in the markets, you realize things can continue for quite a while. so are you not mosque towards the exits yet. what would change your mind? by the way, do you think you would be able to be nimble enough if that happens or this s this a situation j. powell says something and everything rushes to the exits and it's too late to get out ahead of what are you talking about? >> i would say in a bear market,

he who loses least wins. so i am prepared to give back. i am having a good year up in the high 30s it will be tax sensitive to a long-term investor but what i'm watching in 2022 is inflation. i think it will be more institutionalized, more of a problem than the fed is allowing for presently. i am looking for that fed policy i think it was in george schaeffer, the technician in the '60s to '70s, coined the phrase, three steps to stumble and the first increases in rates for the market we have three increases and the market paid attention, i'm watching the path of the virus, i'm watching valuation i think my main concerns were we're borrowing from the future. if we put 100 economists in a room today and ask them what is the potential of the real growth they would respond 2% real, labor force growth and productivity growth.

yet for some reason we're keeping interest rates at zero that doesn't make sense, secondly, we've injected into the economy stimulus and the president wants another 3/3.5 trillion we're boroughing from the future ultimately, we have to change policies, you are right to ask if i have doto respond if i'm negative, i'm a heavily invested bear >> how much should be taken out? 10% or >> i would say yeah about 10%, heavily inskreftd. i lose money when the market goes down and make money when the market goes up >> did you put it in cash? >> no i'm selling out of the money cause in the s&p i'm short of calls at strike price that ultimately we get to. i think the fair value of the s&p in my view is around 4100 and we get further and further away from 4100, i get more

conservative we get closer to 4100 or below it, i get more active the truth is i respond to individual ideas. >> 4100? that's 600 points ago. >> yeah, well, that was probably two days ago the machines run the world they buy bear and sell weakness, they know everything about price, nothing about value i think the question we have to ask ourselves, what is a fair multiple of the s&p in given the government involved in the system, 18 times, towards a thousand dollars earnings. that's my central tendency i think people that are bullish could argue the 18 multiple is low given interest rates think about it, in your own life, you go out and buy at 1.5% and keep 60% and inflation rate running 6/7% i think it's crazy it's the result of global interest rates and other kind of facts that people don't fully

understand, myself included. it's appropriate the ten-year government has ruled in line with nominal gdp it will be up 10%. you know, you look at trend and you say, trend gdp is 4% 2% real. 2% inflation that's 4%. you got the government buying. that doesn't make a great deal we have central bank policy around the world, which is basically pushing everybody out of the risk code people are not stupid. basically, they can't earn anything in fixed income they're moving on the risk curve. ten years ago, the person that brought t-bills says i can't get by on zero ten basis points i got to take a duration risk. the h-bond doesn't ring my bell by industrial bonds. industrial bond person says well 3% doesn't excite me

i'll buy high yield. they say 5 or 6% doesn't work for me i will buy stuff like that the coo guy says the hot market is equity, put 20% of the fixed income into equities and in bitcoin. the fed is encouraging inflation and long on speculation. 64% of the typical business cost is labor labor is not going down. there are 10 million unfilled job option labor mad rates the demands. >> lee, as your neighbor, i'm going to do this, i want to get your comment before the interview, it's important. becky can get back to the markets and everything like this just real quick, you've had some tete-a-tetes with a certain m. senior about some different things i was wondering if you saw elon muck's treats about senator elizabeth warren and i was

thinking, wow, lee really pulls his punches compared to, if you look at it on a relative basis to what we saw from elon musk, i was just wondering whether you thought he went too far, whether you will adopt the name senator karen and start using that in. >> i try to take the high road with her just to remind you this whole thing, i'm not too politically involved i think both political parties have big problems. i think the democrats have been far too south of the violence in the big cities and republicans have been far too tolerant of the baloney pulled by trump. i'm not in favor of any of them. i was on one of your conferences, the moderate oor asked me the question. at the time she was running strongly in the polls. he asked me, i spent no time on politics, what would the marks do if elizabeth warren was elected president.

i said go down 20% i think was too optimistic the next day she tweets, leon, i'm only looking for 2% to give others the american dream. she messing around with the one guy. i respect money, but i'm giving it all away. i've taken twa partners, one with warren buffet and i and the to give away my money. i'm not money oriented i decided to take the high road. she says when they take the low road we take the high road. i wrote her a very good letter, explaining why she was wrong okay and larry summers called me up afterwards, he said you should give it to the paper, at harvard, i'll give you a plus. she does no attempt to respond to specifically the letter and label itself me an inside tried i trader, liabled me, i won the case and said i owned stock which more than doubled and has

a thing about student loan companies. if i wanted to be polite, i'd say elizabeth warren is a politician in the worst sense of the word if i wanted to be impolite and aggressive like elon musk, a much smarter guy than me, i'd say she's a nasty fool a nasty foochl i dl. i don't know about karen, she did misrepresentation her heritage i read something somewhere an indian tribe bestowed a name and they said it means a person so full of baloney, too heavy to fly. i don't want to get too involved in politics. one of the negatives on my list is thisvillification of wealthy people is just wrong bill clinton didn't vilify wealthy people ronald reagan didn't vilify

wealthy people, george bush first and son did not vilify people america is a country where people want to become rich i think the kwhorld iworld is a better place because of jeff bezos, people like that. tax them, fine you have to pay our tax with the contact structure. i think it's very destructive to the country to have this class hatred i wrote a letter to mr. obama. are you telling the 99% is screwed by the 1%. why don't you tell the 99% with a lot of work will become a part of the 1%. president biden has taken on the same mantle. we will create union jobs i'm in favor of jobs, whether union or non-union, i don't care. i don't want to tax wealthy people

i don't know if i answered your question, i'm not looking to be a political activist i'm a numbers guys, i would say as far as the market is concerned, 23 don't have the yield curve or high interest rates or a hostile fed we don't have an oncoming recession. the market has been very self corrective the area that's been bombed out is gamestop, you know, amc, they still have earnings and high market values. and there is plenty of things in the market that look cheap haired hanley will follow me on the show, i have an interest what he has to say i came into a big energy position one of my biggest positions, i looked at paramourn mont in canada, gaining $8 per share in stock flow the stock is $20 an change they have $4 a share and nine other energy assets.

they tripped the dividend to a yield of 3.3%. they make money in oil at $35 a barrel i don't want to own car, i have to own net i have a lot of energy stocks. the supply demand for energy is favorable. i am very negative on fixed income ironically, the largest position is a fixed income. a no brainer it's very complex. we can't discuss this. i'm finding plenty of things to do you know i mentioned paramont, i would mention a theme, eight times earnings, cigna ten times other earnings i think overall we're borrowing from the future. we're pulling demand forward and fiscal monetary policies will get us in trouble. i'm not potentially paid to the

dret created to think about it. from 20 trillion to 20 trillion in 30 years. we are going to free up money or ultimately the door bringest the car will catch the car >> lee, we have learned a lot. we want to thank you for your time today, wishing you happy holidays >> i lost my brother about ten days ago. >> oh, lee, so sorry >> my closest friend but, life has to go on thank you very much, stay well, stay healthy >> best of wishes to you and your family on this holiday season take care, we'll see you soon. we're very sorry about your brother. andrew >> thanks, becks we send our best to the cooperman family. meantime, we will talk a little bit about crude oil right

now. a hard pivot there, having a solid month. up close to 10%, still well off of its highs from mid--to-late october. they are trying to gauge the impact right now oil 57d gas, the founder of hamm we will talk about that in just a moment i want to start with the current state of oil and gas prices, where do you think we're at, harold, where do you think we're going? i don't know if you heard a conversation with lee about the price of energy right now? >> i did, andrew i think the fundamental also are well established where prices are, both for crude oil and natural gas. this inflation has limited what we can do, who has the federal

permits to work on federal lands. and you could expect price to responded a it has we have come off a high. we having plagued with this pandemic the last two years. certainly, it has kept prices down and demand down and if we see this come back, we see prices respond somewhat. but as far as them getting out of control, i don't see that happening. the market does not reward oversupply and, in fact. , they do reward return to investors. that's what all the companies are doing out there. you know, they've responded to what the market wants today. >> how do you think this new variant could affect prices in the short term and how do you think about prices think out six months, 12 months from now? >> well, it's certainly knocked

demand back this new variant, but it doesn't seem as bad, people are interesting vaccinated we're about 90% here at continental and we're proud of that here in the continental center and certainly as other companies are encouraging vaccination and as that comes about, you know, that will help the whom situation we've got to beat this thing it's a pandemic, you know, it can be beat. vaccination is key to us and that should do it. i think in six months, to answer your question. i don't see prices running away. they're destabilized, $70 a beryl. that's what we're kind of seeing out there. so you all, we've got good fundamental alsos. we need to be able to work we don't need legislation or anything being a applied to us, in addition to what they've done already. and there are some things that

could hurt us bad that they're trying to do so, we're working hard and trying to supply what america ne needs. >> harold, you have been very critical of the biden administration, you said they have censured the oil industry and tried to lower the price, i don't know if that's actually working. but in terms of the piles coming out of walk and what you think it is doing to price long term, it is what >> they need to quit ignoring our domestic industry. that itself first thing. they need as much local calls as i call it to calls on opec or russia for supplies. i mean, you know, we've got a tremendous amount of supplies right here at home and opening spr, that might help temporarily on prices, long term it can't.

that just doesn't work what we need is, you know, for our own production to be paramount to this administration and so that's what was asked we've asked to talk to the administration over and over and haven't had any response i'd love to do that. so that's what needs to happen we don't need a lot of community legislation. we need to be able to work >> but do you think the price today is a function of the cyclicality of where we are? or do you think it is a function of the move towards both from a policy perspective in washington and maybe an esg perspective in terms of investors, in terms of new investors. >> it's all that you know, as far as investors, like i say, they want return you know of dividends and everything else, that's what they're wanting. we have to respond to that

we're public companies i think as far as prices, you know, it's strictly supply and demand that's what drives it. and that's what the market responds to. >> speak to what this new institute is about how much of this is about finding new renewable efforts, clean efforts from what you are currently doing? when you say you are starting this new foundation, what is it going to do? >> well, certainly, this institute as i see it can do so much for energy in america research, basic research j you tjust the facts of everything, you mentioned esg certain to be involved with that and you know this industry intends to lead the way. you know, and save fuels and we

have look at what's happened in just the last years in clean burning gas. we have the cleanest in the world here what happened in the '80s that put us on this disastrous course, you know, mandating 100% use of coal, the act of 1978, that was biden helping quarter so that put us on a disastrous path we have to make intelligent decision on energy, certainly this institute can help with that. >> we are looking forward to seeing what work you do, harold, it's great to see you, happy holidays >> thank you, andrew happy holidays to you. >> rick santelli standing by at the cme in chicago with breaking economic data. can you fix it, rick, please >> all right a initial jobless claims

206,000. last's's 184,000 post-covid law started through a variety of seasonal adjustments moved from 184 to 188,000 206,000 still is low the problem is that jobless claims, the problem is the 4 million people we can't seem to plug into these job option, on continuing claims 1 million 8 fore,000 definitely a poeflt covid low, revised shy of 2 million housing starts for the month of november, 1 million 679,000, seasonally adjusted annualized units, wow, that just blows away expectations by over a million and if you look in the rear view mirror, that follows 1 million 502,000 so that is a huge jump on the permit side 1 million 6 -- i'm sorry 1 million 7 specifically the e 12,000

seasonally adjusted units, that follows 1 million 353. permits up 3 b.5% on starts. finally our december, the most real time data, philly business outlook moves to half the expectations it's the lowest read of the year and just to remind everybody, in april, in april, this number was 50.2 that was a 48-year high. so this is definitely a big miss on philly. interest rates, joe, where do we begin? so we have our curve steepen ac bit. the curve of the uk is basically a lateral move they did something unusual, of course, they've raised rates, the bank of england, that is monetary policy committee on the ecb you talk about kicking the biggest can in history they didn't ease back. they're doubling the rate of purse per month to 40 billion

euros. that is a big number, joe. back to you. >> hey, rick, looking forward to judy shelton coming up what do you want me to ask her >> i would like you to ask her why we don't take that band aid off right away and like the bank of england, the purchases running them off until march, yes, it's a quickened pace it's a pace that still doesn't make sense coming up, former fed nominee joao dudy shelton. stay tuned you are watching "squawk box" on nnbc zbl

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to those of you watch ac few minutes ago when lee cooperman talked about his brother, he got cut off. i called him lee is doing okay. he did tell me a little about his brother howard who passed away completely unexpected he served in the army and later volunteered in the essex county sheriffs department in new jersey and also at st. barnabus medical center he sent out, stay close to your family remember, they care more about it than anybody. when we come back, cramer's word on the day ahead and judy shelton. stay tuned you are watching "squawk box" and this is cnbc

the fed will phase out a bond purchase program at a faster pace. officials see three interest strikes next year. high inflation got a lot of attention. here's fed chair j. powell >> there is a real risk now, we believe, i believe, that inflation may be more per accept it and that may be putting inflation expectations under pressure and that the risk of higher inflation becoming entrenched has increased it certainly increased i don't think it's high at this moment i think it's increased. >> joining us now, judy shelton board nominee and senior fellow. she also the author of money meltdown, restoring order to the global currency system i know you probably heard rick santelli, judy, the lead

editorial, not surprisingly the "wall street journal" takes a more hawkish tone. even as i watched the markets yesterday, some people said, wow, the fed is getting top-on inflation. the markets liked it others said, it was more dovish, really, maybe. or that people thought and the markets were partying on, based on that we're still going to have qe with 7% inflation. where do you come down >> well, i think the rhetoric has certainly gotten tougher and it's hard to imagine that it couldn't given that chairman powell has been spend ac lot of time on the hill and i am sure he has been getting an ear full. if he didn't stop the top-down rhetoric about the fed needs to fight inflation, he would have to deal with those consequences, so that causes pivot from the fed going from being so benevolent and almost growing at the rate of zero until we had

full labor force participation however long it took to now saying, we're the disciplinarians and we are going to stamp out inflation >> and as the action, does it live up to what you just described? the action the journal says the central bank signals it will have, it will leave real negative real interest rates all the way through next year and that's accommodative, not inflation fighting >> right no, i think this is largely posturing. the fed is hoping it might get lucky and the inflation will work itself out, but we're going to go through another two meetings of the fomc where they will still stimulating, engaging in quantitative easing to some extent while keeping rates at zero so i just think that the fed is

very good at hedging its bets and it felt like it had to sound hawkish, but, in fact, the actions are still stimulating at a time when we are seeing its tremendous energy, the economy wants to recover and the fed is still maybe. >> would you say the stockmarket is correctly anticipating an effective landing, an effective soft landing or would you say that the stockmarket is near term feeling good about the continued accommodation? and when would it finally come to grips with the notion that maybe we're behind or maybe inflation is going to be tough tore deal with, because it's already the toothpaste is already out of the tube? is that coming down the road we haven't seen it yet with the stockmarket. >> i think that a lot of people

in the market are thinking vaca while the sunshines. the fed made it clear they're not going to raise rates until they finish the taper. so they've got it at least through the end of march i think if they start to raise rates using this blunt tool, the rate that the fed pays to commercial banks, the following institution, reserves on the deposits, at the administered rate, they just ratchet that up, i think that that has nothing to do with engaging with markets' demand and supply f. they use that tool, that's when you will get the attention of stockmarket participants because there might be a lot of stockmarket activity financed by -- that would be very sensitive to an increase by the fed. i think this is the time for beneficials to stands back and say, why would we use that tool? that is you also have 4.3

trademark this niece revs sitting there collecting 15 basis points at the fed doing nothing. if the fed perceives raising that rate three times and we get to .9% by the end of next year, you will be paying banks six times more that money sitting stagnant now, what does that do with increased supply to expand production how does that really fight inflation? that's not really a good tool. >> steve leishman earlier, he did address some of these things when he actually asked chairman powell his question, and that was that the pace seems to be very sort of thoughtful and slow and gradual and the chairman had a response to that that that's the way you need to sort of steer the ship as chairman of the fed, that, for example, if

he had done everything you wanted him to do, judy, what would the near-term impact have been on the stockmarket, on the bond market and should you take the near-term pain now and take your medicine or do you think as you space it out and do things methodically and let the market know along the way what you are doing? isn't it possible that was the right way to do it that was the case he made? >> well, i think that chair powell is exquisitely sensitive not just to political sentiments but also the marmt so he believes and not surprising the market, creates expectations and then he meets them precisely so the stockmarket tends to appreciate like that but what happens if the fed starts with the first interest hike and it doesn't affect inflation. what is inflation is every bit as high or higher. so they do the next point. so they do the next one. now are you in a situation where

the fed is ratcheting up to a hike monetary policy relatively, that could create not just market turmoil but financial instability. so much debt out there and much of it very sensitive to change in the interest rates i think he is risking that i would much rather see the fed drink the balance sheet and to use this very blunt instrument of paying banks more on their deposits >> you made a point in the past to just indicate that the private sector is where a lot of wealth generation and prosperity and gdp growth that's where we see it do you think that the acts of the f-- actions of the fed righ now are putting a damper on the ability of the private sector to be as innovative and to put capital and allocate it into

place where its treated us and will this cause future growth to be below potential >> it will cause future growth to be below potential, yes when you have an interventionist and managing the economy, supporting the economy as that's a euphemism they use, but that's attempting to direct at will that's attempting to distort on manipulating the interest rate to socially engineer, to affect people's decisions i'd much prefer across the private sector to make good decisions about the future and about where to invest and what they really need are clear monetary signals so, the less intervention from the fed. the smaller the fed puts things in there for free markets to function and to result in those optimum outcomes, that brings prosperity to the entire

economy. i'm thinking that to the exteptd that we have been living in accordance with mod tern monetary, if you live by mmt, will you die by mmt. if you think deficits don't matter you think the fed can create all the money it can create all the money it wants with a keystroke, if you go to the mmt for what do you do with inflation, the recipe is you tax. you pull the money out of the real economy by taxes people, not just the ones in a senator warren is after, not the rich people, but the middle class, the ones who go to walmart or target, that lift the cpi to alarming rates that's what i'm concerned, we've gone too long not living by the rule of sound finances and sound money. >> well, the fed has plenty of cover to have the financial crisis followed by the pandemic, you know, it's going to be hard to point fingers

it's almost as they said we're doing our best given what happened judy, thanks good to have you on this morning with your insight. thank you. >> thank you for inviting me, joe. >> you're welcome. we want to get down to the new york stock exchange and talk to our good friend jim cramer. i don't know if you had an opportunity to hear what jude use shelton was saying, but i would love your reaction, whether you think mr. powell is doing it right >> yeah, i think he's doing it perfectly. i love the fact that nobody comes on and says he's doing it perfectly. everyone wants to savage him he's managed to thread every single needle. he's saved us at the worst part of the pandemic. i think inflation will probably peak midyear next year, because things will catch up a lot of

people are always gunning for the guy, but sometimes you just have to say he's smarter than we are. it's kind of like elon musk, when lee said elon musk is smarter than he is, but i think jay powell is smarter than a lot of these people. maybe because he's not a blix fi belichick figure, he's got it right. >> we just listen to do jude,shelton's view that's obviously on the other side of it what do you make of her argument >> look, that's the rap. look, you can't -- what's he going to do, race it 17 times and do it now? what does that do to the working person what does that do to the person who goes to walmart or target, as she said? that person is wiped out

we don't have commodity inflation. we have distribution inflation it doesn't create the truckers we need. i think it's gradual, and these people want to shock it, or want to do something radical. i mean, they're just playing some sort of game against the american people. >> look, the devil's advocate position here is you're looking at the market this morning open up on this news higher, as if the party is going on and that the punchbowl is not really being taken away, right? risk on, let's keep playing. >> but look, i think it's okay now, but when you look at the adobe call is not that good. i think the futures are reflecting the general forget what the actual stocks are doing? the only real positive i saw was a piece about at&t, which is worthless to me, anyway. there is absolutely nothing in the research or any earnings

that make me feel like this will necessarily be an up day let's not judge ourself by the futures, but by the reality. adobe really missed. lennar really missed i'm not playing the stock market game i know the stock market. it's not as strong as what the futures look like. >>. >> we talk about the variant, but we are seeing it spread in a meaningful way -- >> every day, okay every day i get up and i take it i wish everybody else did. i got a box of 40, just take it and take it. you think thinks an inspiration for me to go to macy's, go to the mall i just think that we're not as cognizant that everybody will get one, so in that environment i'm not buying that the market

is going to roar we'll have a santa claus rally and there should be some stocks that go up, but once again, like jay poly -- as the late monty said, don't fight the fed. we're now fighting the fed even though people may want him to crush the economy, he's formidable, and it is it's much harder to be in a lot of stocks if you're losing money if you're in companies that are losing money, you should sell them >> i salute you for testing. we've been doing the same thing. we've got to figure out a way to make them even cheaper unfortunately they're too expensive for too many people to do it as frequently as we need. >> in england they're free nigh charitable trust owns abbott labs, it's like a lollipop you can't eat it, though >> stay safe, my friend. (soft music)

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making it happen. and at genesys, we're proud to help them help you everyday. the european central bank holding rates steady, in contrast to the bank of england which announced an increase this

morning. steve, we used to just barely glance at they meetings, but now that inflation is running rampant, we are now paying attention. >> the european central bank became the latest to tiptone to -- tiptoe to an easing. bank of england, raised rates to a quarter. essential the federal reserve speeding up its tapering crist teen lagarde generally upbeat on growth not easy these days. >> it's not, or even a parent trying to wade through these things steve, thank you

we'll see you again tomorrow. a look at the futures this morning. we've been higher all morning long right now the dow futures constituent indicated up about 300 points s&p up by about 32 that would not be a record, but awfully close to it. guys, that does it for us today. we'll be right back here tomorrow now it's time for "squawk on the street" good thursday morning. welcome to "squawk on the street." i'm carl quintanilla with jim cramer, david faber has the morning off. futures suggest we'll get awfully close at the open. the bank of england, the first major economy set to raise rates.