tv The Profit CNBC December 19, 2021 4:00am-5:00am EST
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rock 'n' roll. laura: we're ready to bake. james: yeah. ♪♪ ♪♪ man: ♪ feel lost, feel enough, feel less than good ♪ ♪♪ lemonis: i'm here in petaluma, california, it's a community adjacent to sonoma and napa. this area is famous for winemaking. but today i'm going to be visiting sonoma coast spirits -- it's an infused vodka and cocktails company -- and see what it looks like. jill: we have three pos coming. 21,000 units. lemonis: wow. boy, this one's good. carter: that one's good. lemonis: really good. who's in charge of the business? jill: i am. lemonis: do you guys think you're running the business? carter: yeah. lemonis: what is the tension between the two of you? jill: i'm the only one that's really kept this business going.
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i need respect, yeah. carter: i would like some, too. lemonis: this is where i think the rubber meets the road, because if you want to leave the bottle the way it is... jill: i'm sorry. lemonis: ...i'm not interested in being in business with you. i'm marcus lemonis and i risk my own money to help businesses. i love investing in american businesses. woman: i just don't want anything to really change. lemonis: it's not always easy, but i do it to create jobs. i do it to make money. we have a deal? let's rock and roll. man: yeah! [ cheering and applause ] lemonis: this is "the profit." ♪♪ jill: we make the cocktail in a bottle. it's ready to go. just easy peasy. my husband and i started the business in 2011. we have an 1,100-square-foot facility. it's small. but we sell to whole foods, costco, total wine, safeway. lucky, save marts, and a lot of smaller stores. we were featured in oprah magazine.
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it was very exciting. lemonis: this business is at a real crossroads and it's time they decide whether they want to stay local or expand across the country. it may do well in this tight area in california, but is it going to work in texas and new york city? i don't think so. and that's where i come in. but as so often with generational businesses, the lines get blurred and people aren't always pulling in the same direction. jill: my oldest son would beg to differ, but i am the boss and he thinks he's the boss. so it's kind of funny. carter: i view myself as a leader in the business. i wear a lot of hats, maybe too many hats sometimes. jill: these don't look stable to me. carter: she's my mom and it's sometimes hard to give her the truth. she has communication issues. she likes to do things by herself. jill: and they're all on different pages. carter: we don't know what she's working on. so we need to be working together. man: ♪ you lift me up, up, up ♪ lemonis: historically, i have never invested in anything alcohol-related. i've always hesitated. but when you think about how alcohol and food have really merged together, it's interesting.
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so i want to get into the business and really understand, from the inside of the bottle out, how everything works. i'm going to learn at the same time you are. man: ♪ you lift me up, up, up ♪ lemonis: hi, how are you? i'm marcus. jill: hi, i'm jill. nice to meet you. lemonis: nice to meet you. jill: yeah. this is it. we're small. i'm a little embarrassed. lemonis: small but strong. jill: carter. he's my oldest right here. lemonis: how are you doing? i'm marcus. nice to meet you. carter: you, too. jill: my son grant. lemonis: nice to see you. grant: it's a pleasure. lemonis: who's the mixologist here? carter: she creates all the recipes and then we'll just make the big batches. lemonis: so you just do what she says. carter: basically. jill: yes. thank you. lemonis: is that true? jill: it's true. it's true. lemonis: does he do what you say? jill: for the most part. working with family is not the same as having an employee, because, i mean, they are employees, but sometimes it's hard. [ laughs ] lemonis: is this one room pretty much the company? jill: yes, it's small. lemonis: well, stop saying it's small. jill: i know. lemonis: it's exciting.
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jill: it's exciting. i know and i'm always like, i don't know why. lemonis: it's like you're apologizing. you're medium on your way to... jill: on to greatness. lemonis: that's right. jill: i do laugh under pressure. and that's my coping mechanism is i just laugh. he might find it insulting, but it doesn't mean that it's insulting. it means like, oh, my gosh, i'm on the hot seat. lemonis: which one would you like me to look at? carter: our most popular out of everything would be lemon drop. jill: and that was our first product was lemon drop, and it's still our best seller. lemonis: so there's obviously the infused. are you infusing this yourself? carter: yeah. lemonis: so you get the base alcohol for all of it. and then any flavor profile change, you're doing it. jill: yes. carter: exactly. it's trial and error. lemonis: there's two distinct product offerings. there's the craft cocktails that are premixed. you can pour them right over ice. then there's the traditional vodka that's infused with the raw ingredient. but there's no other additives to it other than the jalapeño, the ginger, the basil, and the base alcohol. that's cool. you guys keep talking.
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the lemon drop? jill: and if you don't want to drink the whole thing, there's a little dump -- behind the bottles. well, you're just starting. lemonis: see, remember, at some point we're going to talk about numbers. the less i'm able to talk about it, the safer you'll be. jill: okay, good. [ laughs ] lemonis: it's really sweet. it's delicious. jill: yes, yes, yes, yes. lemonis: this is raspberry lemonade. jill: yes. so it's probably a little bit more tart because raspberry's tart. lemonis: how does this one sell? jill: second most popular. lemonis: this is delicious. jill: thank you. lemonis: this is the ginger. carter: that'll knock your socks off. lemonis: ooh, this one's good. carter: that one's good. lemonis: really good. carter: we just peel ginger and ginger root and we infuse it. we don't filter. so there's a little bit of sediment in there. that also helps with the flavor. lemonis: the fact that you said to me that you're peeling your own ginger and you're doing it, makes me like the idea of this business even more. this is the jalapeño one. ooh, i like that.
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man: how you feeling, marcus? lemonis: how am i feeling? this is straight... jill: yes. lemonis: i'm definitely not going to sit down with my checkbook right now, i can tell you that. the citrus basil, it's nice and smooth. jill: well, that's interesting that you said that, because oprah liked it, too. lemonis: well, i'm gonna go with her. if oprah likes it, i don't really care if i like it or not. do i need to try the -- jill: yeah, go ahead. lemonis: i should try the plain one as well? jill: i think so, because that's the base of everything. carter: that shows the smoothness of what we have in our product. ♪♪ jill: sorry. lemonis: are you, though? are you sorry? because they don't look sorry. that felt like a fake sorry. jill: sorry. lemonis: you're not sorry. jill: no, no, no. i mean -- lemonis: just be honest. it's okay. one of the things that i'm noticing about jill is she tends to be agreeable. and i'm not sure if she's agreeing because she actually agrees or because she wants to just pacify me and move me along. what's the reason for the rooster on the logo? jill: petaluma is the egg capital of the world. if you look anywhere in petaluma there's chickens.
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lemonis: it says small batch, which i agree. how do i know that it's... jill: like ginger roots peeled. lemonis: but how do people know that? a label is meant to be your silent salesperson. either get the credit or don't do it. one of the problems that i have with their label is it feels a little too country for me. but if you're going to ever want to distribute this nationally, you have to play to a wider audience. i am pleasantly surprised, a, at how far you've gotten in a short period of time. i'm even more impressed at the authenticity of the flavors. in a weird way, it's farm-to-table vodka. jill: oh, totally. lemonis: as i look at the product, the foundational products are there, and i love the fact that they're using real ingredients to infuse flavors and i did not know that before. jill: this is my daughter, caroline. lemonis: hi, how are you? i'm marcus. carolina: nice to meet you. lemonis: nice to meet you. jill: caroline helps me figure out what do we want to bottle next? lemonis: how many bottles do you manufacture a year? jill: we did 15,000 units last year.
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right now, we don't have a lot of inventory. i don't like to sit on inventory. i think inventory is money. so i don't really want to sit on a bunch of inventory and have this huge space. so right now, we don't have any -- lemonis: except if the demand explodes and you're not prepared to fill it, you're going to miss out on the shelf space opportunity. if you visualize a 10,000-square-foot warehouse, there's a section of the warehouse that's dedicated exclusively to inventory. you want to make sure that you have at least 30 days of inventory ready to go at all times. if there's inventory on the ground and you can fulfill the order, your manufacturing process can continue to go and move smoothly and efficiently and profitably. so i want to find a happy balance there. jill: so we have a big, huge -- we have three pos coming. and so we're going to have 17 pallets here monday. lemonis: what's a huge -- when you say huge po, give me that in... jill: 21,000 units. lemonis: wow. jill: uh-huh. lemonis: to one retailer? jill: yes. mm-hmm. it's a big one. yes. lemonis: wow! so can i see what the process is like? carter: this is the raw vodka.
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there it is. it's a powerful odor. lemonis: and so it goes from here to where? carter: to the smaller tanks. jill: this is a mixing tank we just purchased it. lemonis: how much does something like this cost? jill: that was about $6,000. lemonis: oh, wow. jill: but it's very cool because it's got the mixer on the top. carter: this is the lemon drop. lemonis: feel like mark twain. jill: right. it's a workout. carter: this is the pump that just brings it into the filler. lemonis: can we do just one bottle? i just want to see what that looks like. carter: so you're going to put it in and then lift it up and then put on the ledge. lemonis: every time i got to do this? carter: no, you just let go. ♪♪ grant: well, normally we fill them all, so, you know. lemonis: right, but i would still be standing here while they're all being filled, right? have you ever looked at automating the whole thing? carter: we were just looking at some like some equipment, but it was just super expensive, lemonis: what's super expensive? carter: 50 grand. lemonis: okay, you got a 21,000 bottle purchase order, the biggest order the company ever had. jill: yes. lemonis: and as the company continues to grow and you get a 200,000 bottle order...
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jill: oh, i know. lemonis: you can't milk cows all day. because that's really like i feel like i'm -- jill: painfully slow. lemonis: i just want to show everybody how ridiculous this is. jill: okay. ♪♪ [ tool whirring ] carter: now you gotta spin it. lemonis: the process, it works fine for the size company that it is today. 15,000 bottles a year. you get 20,000 bottles in an order that process isn't going to be so good. and your husband works in the business? jill: oh, he passed away in 2018. so the last two and a half years. lemonis: oh, he did. jill: yes. yeah. lemonis: i'm sorry. jill: that's okay. my kids are very resilient, strong. the first year was tough. but we've, you know, we survived. it's been, um... ♪♪ it's unfortunate. lemonis: did that loss bring the family closer together?
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jill: i think so, definitely. carter: i think so. lemonis: you do? are you the oldest? carter: yeah. lemonis: how long have you worked in the business? carter: about three years. jill: we're making it work. lemonis: when you were saying we should get the machinery, we should automate it, but we can't do it until we get this. it's almost like you can't get the big order unless you can fulfill it and you can't buy the equipment unless you have the order. so what do you do? how do you get massive distribution? because this nice facility here which has brought you guys to a really successful 250, $300,000 business can't be a two, three, four, five, six million dollar business in this space. i think ultimately you guys have to decide who you want to be when you grow up. so why don't we sit down and go over the financials? jill: sure. not a problem. man: ♪ we can never stop, we got to stay ♪ lemonis: now that i've gotten a good understanding of the products they carry, the manufacturing they have, and the family dynamics, i want to sit down and take a look at their financials and really understand what the investment opportunity is here.
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i want to just start with the pnl. 2019, $232,000 in sales. 2020, $262,000 of sales. we go through the expenses. total expenses in '19, $45,000. total expenses in 2020 of $60,000 with the biggest jump being rent. rent went from $3,000 to $27,000. jill: yes, we went from a small little place to a bigger place. lemonis: and you did about the same amount of business. jill: yes. lemonis: so i don't buy your expense structure. four people who work there. and there's no payroll in here. carter: yeah. lemonis: so i think what you have to be honest about is while the business showed $138,000 profit in 2019 and $124,000 in 2020, if you properly infused it with the wages, it would be a break even to a slight loss. ♪♪ who's in charge of the business? jill: i am.
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it's a family business and it's getting off the ground. it's a huge sign of character that you go without so the business can go with. jill: okay. lemonis: when you look at a financial statement of a business, it's important to ensure that all of the expenses are recorded. in this particular case, they're not recording any wage expense, which means nobody's getting paid. and the business is reporting more profit than it actually really has. it almost creates a false profit. and that's something that we want to get fixed right away. i'm going to assume no debt on the company? jill: no. mnh-mnh. lemonis: $100,000 of assets largely made up of receivables. fixed assets of $35,000. that's the equipment we saw in the shop, right? so a quarter of a million dollars after really two years of fully dedicating yourself to it? jill: yes. lemonis: without a lot of money. without a lot of big machinery. you've been able to come up with something pretty special, really special. so i would like to invest in the business. i know this is a big leap for you guys.
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i think the business needs cash. jill: mm-hmm. lemonis: i think it needs working capital. so i'd like to offer $250,000 for 20% and an additional credit line for an additional $250,000 because you're going to need to finance pos. jill: right. i just take it out of savings right now. lemonis: out of your personal savings? jill: yes. lemonis: yeah. you shouldn't do that. jill: i know. i do. lemonis: what do you think? jill: maybe 350. lemonis: i'll do 350, but i'll want 30%. jill: i think -- carter: i think that's a little too much. jill: yeah, i think 250 at 20%. the first deal. i think the first deal's always the best deal. caroline: or 300 at 25. lemonis: was it the best deal? it's the same math. jill: got it. deal. lemonis: are you saying deal? [ laughter ] caroline: wait, hold on, hold on. lemonis: you pick a number once and for all and i'm going to go with whatever you say. jill: i say $300,000 for 25%. lemonis: do you agree with it? caroline: yeah. lemonis: do you agree with it?
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carter: i think it's exactly what we need. lemonis: i wanted jill to understand that this wasn't just going to be about getting her approval. and even though it's legally and technically 100% her business, it is a family business. and asking for approval from every one of the children reinforces the idea that this is a family business. and caroline and carter and grant all have to be in favor of this. i'm telling you right now, i'm super excited. jill: oh, thank you. i think so. i'm excited, too, we're all excited. lemonis: so do we have a deal? jill: we have a deal. lemonis: can we toast? [ glasses clink ] ♪♪ the changes that i want to force and infuse into this business are going to be all around the operational efficiencies. we know that what's inside the bottle works. when you look at the actual operations of the business, who's in charge? the bottle, the packaging, the manufacturing processes, the current warehouse system. there's a lot of room for improvement. ♪♪
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we know we have the farm to bottle model where we're putting fresh ingredients inside. but as you walk through the shelf, the bottles, it's not bad. jill: right. lemonis: it's just -- it's ordinary. jill: yes. caroline: yeah. lemonis: so i wanted to bring jill and caroline today to an artisan glassblower so they could understand how different i want them to be thinking about their actual bottle. man: i'm going to roll it on the table here to help me shape it. jill: so cool. man: and this just helps us to really shape and get the glass to be nice and even. lemonis: in order to stand out in this very competitive alcohol space, you have to do things that are out of the ordinary. and in this particular industry, the way to create noise is to have a beautiful bottle with a spectacular package that stands out as you're walking through the store shelf. man: i think we're finished with this one, right? jill: i like the white. man: let's get out of the heat. lemonis: great. ♪♪ oh, this is fun. caroline: yeah! we have lots of things to try.
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lemonis: how does the new product development process actually happen? jill: like this. like this. lemonis: the goal behind this is to see how the four of you come up with ideas. carter: let's go to work. i think we start with a grapefruit orange, but we don't want to use the juice or one these peels. grant: do you think maybe some rosemary or some basil? carter: we could add a little bit of basil to it. marcus, i grabbed some high-proof 195 citrus basil. lemonis: does it have vodka in it? carter: yeah. see this peeler? like comes out in little slices. i feel like it's good for infusing because there's more surface area to extract the flavor. lemonis: you have to love the enthusiasm that the kids have and the knowledge they have and the passion they have around their business. and in the kitchen, they're the ones driving the process while jill steps back. but if you pay attention to how she looks, she looks nervous and pensive, almost like she feels like she's out of control and somebody else is driving the process. so we're going to document the process and we're going to make sure we create a checklist.
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jill: we have a recipe book exactly what goes into each. lemonis: how did you come to the recipe and who drove the process? jill: i guess i did. mm-hmm. i mean, we all kind of, you know, have our say in the business. lemonis: how would you define your brother carter's role? grant: he pushes the ordering, you know, keeping supplies. lemonis: operations? grant: operations. lemonis: production, distribution? grant: yeah. lemonis: sales? grant: definitely, but... carter: i wear a lot of hats. lemonis: which hat would you like to get rid of? carter: i like them all. i like -- i like... lemonis: you can't be everything to everybody. carter: i know. i know. lemonis: because that's what your mom's job is. carter: yeah. jill: right. lemonis: it's not a good thing. jill: no, it's not. lemonis: that's the problem with the business is that from an outsider looking in, there's a lot of this. i'm not sure how the business functions. one of the issues that i'm noticing is the lack of clarity around roles and responsibilities. now, jill has an absolute death grip on this business. you can tell. but carter actually is doing a lot of the work,
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and i don't know that i necessarily want to create family tension around the power struggle, but i do want to create professional clarity around the power struggle. you guys are an amazing family. this is not a family discussion. this is a business discussion. caroline: yes. lemonis: the one thing we have to do is get the conversation flowing. jill: what he said. [ laughs ] lemonis: let's get into the business and talk about the things that piss you off. jill: okay. lemonis: don't sugarcoat it. jill: okay. lemonis: if they weren't your kids, what would you be saying to them? jill: we need to be more structured on our hours, monday through friday, it's work and if we're not bottling, let's go out and sell, let's make a plan. carter: i think it's frustrating because we've been doing all the work for like the last year. jill: you guys think maybe i don't do much, but i'm at home in the home office ordering the labels or doing this or doing that. carter: i've been doing all the ordering for the last year. jill: well, i'm making sales calls to stores. carter: couple of emails. jill: okay, well. carter: here and there.
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jill: okay, i guess i haven't been doing much. lemonis: if carter should be running the day to day operations, then make that decision. and let him do it. carter: it's been years of trying to build the business together, and it's just hard sometimes when the roles aren't clear cut and we don't get appreciated for the things we do. grant: she likes to control. she's an a type personality. 100%. lemonis: there's a philosophical disconnect about who's doing what and how much work they're doing versus you're doing. jill: mm-hmm. lemonis: and that's creating resentment and tension. grant: you know, how can we be held accountable when we don't have roles? we're all kind of sharing positions. caroline: the communication makes it really hard for us to all work together sometimes. carter: she has communication issues. she likes to do things by herself and in a corner. this can be problematic because we don't know what she's working on. we could be working on two different things, just wasting resources, wasting time. i think that's an important part of the business is to be communicative. lemonis: who's in charge of the business?
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jill: i am. lemonis: who's in charge of running the operations? jill: they are. lemonis: well, that is the business. jill: right. lemonis: so... her job as the leader is to not only lead, but it's to teach and she's not doing that. ...they're really running the business? jill: well... lemonis: do you guys think you're running the business? carter: yeah. you try to micromanage a lot. give me some credit. jill: i do give you credit, but you don't respect me. i need respect. carter: i would like some, too. lemonis: if you're looking to take your business to the next level, log on to theprofitcasting.com.
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lemonis: do you guys think you're running the business? carter: yeah. lemonis: that's where the conflict is. he thinks he's running the company. and you think you're running the company. you know how i know that? both of you told me that separately. you need a clear leader in the day to day business. there needs to be somebody that the buck stops with them. it doesn't have to always stop with you. jill: i know that there's been animosity,
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and i'm certainly guilty of not communicating better with my kids. but it's really hard when you have a family business to separate family with business. lemonis: we're going to figure out an organizational structure that allows them to feel empowered or get out, paid or go get a different job, and respectful or don't work here. jill: sounds good. man: ♪ i'm gonna break this cage ♪ ♪ uh-huh, uh-huh ♪ ♪♪ ♪ yeah ♪ ♪♪ lemonis: hello? what the...? carter: how's it going? lemonis: what the...? what happened? carter: we are a little packed. good to see you. lemonis: is this the same place? carter: same place. jill: it is the same place. carter: this is kind of the remnants of our bottling. and now we're kind of getting ready for our next big bottling session. lemonis: was this the big one that you did? carter: first third of it. lemonis: only one third of it? jill: yeah, 20 pallets. the whole order's 70. lemonis: so this is a great example of why this space doesn't work.
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jill: oh, yeah. lemonis: right here. right now. and this is a good example of why you could use four times the amount of space, five times? where are our bottles? caroline: this is the mockup that we had done. lemonis: what do you think of this? carter: i like it. lemonis: so that -- so we are new packaging for that. new labels that i know are not yet done, but they're being contemplated. i think you should take the lead on this. you're going to come to l.a. and you're going to meet with the firm that i have a relationship with. that's your project. that's your commitment to make. caroline: yeah. carter: what type of cork are we using for that? lemonis: ah! stay out of it. carter: never mind. never mind. ♪♪ lemonis: based on the issues with production at the warehouse, i've asked carter to come up with some solutions and it looks to me like he's come up with a new space, and rather than carter selling me on it, i need him to be able to convince his mom. ultimately, those are the two most important partners
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that exist here and if he can't convince her, well, i don't know where we go from here. i want to tell you why i wanted you to come. i wanted to see if carter would be able to explain to you why he thought it was a good idea, because this is ultimately his idea to move here. jill: yes. lemonis: and the better his plan is, the more you're willing to say yes. but if his plan isn't clear, what would you say? jill: i'm not comfortable with this. lemonis: great. so go in as an owner, not as his mom. jill: okay. lemonis: can you do that? jill: yes, i can. lemonis: no matter what happens, can you stay as the owner? jill: yes, i can. lemonis: seriously? jill: yeah. lemonis: okay. look, if this business is going to grow, it's important that everybody have a very clear path to doing their job. in carter's case, he's in charge of production. and so, this is a real test for him to be able to stand his ground, prove his point, make his case, and bring it home. the question is, is jill going to buy what he's selling? jill: tell me about it. i mean, i've seen it, it's nice, i like it. so this would accommodate
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everything that we need to go to the next level. okay. all right so. lemonis: you said yes pretty quick without really any information. what was it that he said to you that got you so comfortable? jill: what got me so comfortable is the fact that we seriously have run out of space. we cannot do our orders right now with the space we have. lemonis: okay. it's a little odd to me that carter says one line, which is we just need this new space because it's going to make it better. and she just agrees. it's been very clear to me that jill tends to just agree to move on to another topic or at least to move on from having to deal with, i guess, answering any questions to me. i feel like you enable him. jill: i enable him. lemonis: whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. no, i actually do feel that way. jill: okay. lemonis: i genuinely feel that way. because his pitch was so [bleep] and you said yes. he doesn't even think his pitch was great.
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jill: oh, okay. lemonis: and what this family does, because it loves each other so much is that it just says yes and laughs their way through the nervousness. there's a breakdown between the two of you. and i've felt it since the moment i met you. what is the tension between the two of you? jill: i feel like you don't respect me. and so i need respect. carter: i would like some, too. lemonis: i wanted her to work on this project. you were like, "you can work on it, but nothing's done without me knowing about it."
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♪ i'm watching it fall ♪ watch the full story at www.xfinity.com/sing2 my hygienist cleans with a round head. so does my oral-b my hygienist personalizes my cleaning. so does my oral-b oral-b delivers the wow of a professional clean feel every day. better skin from your body wash? try olay body wash with skincare super ingredient collagen! olay body wash hydrates to improve skin 3x better, from dry and dull to firm and radiant. with olay body, i feel fearless in my skin. ♪♪ jill: i feel like you don't respect me. ♪♪ and so i need respect. carter: i would like some, too. you still treat me like the baby. jill: sorry. carter: i feel like you try to micromanage a lot. jill: i know i'm a type a. i know i like make demands. and you guys like put up the wall like, you know,
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"mom is making demands. i'm not doing that." i get it. carter: this is not like that. jill: okay. carter: we have a great business and we just need to really buckle down and communicate with each other and push the product and work as a team. and i feel like sometimes you're just... "you do it, you do everything," and then when time comes like this, you're like, "you don't do anything." like, give me some credit. jill: i do give you credit, but at the end of the day, it's all about the numbers. carter: sales, totally, totally. jill: that's what drives businesses. if you don't have sales, you don't have a business. i've been doing all the sales, but i need help with the sales. i want to make -- lemonis: he doesn't agree with that. jill: he doesn't? you don't agree with that? carter: no. jill: oh, tell me. carter: well, who's been in contact with the distributor? jill: i haven't seen sales. i know you've been in contact with the distributor. i made $400,000 and this is april.
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you need to act like there is a sense of urgency, like your life depended on it. that's what you have to do is you've got to be hungry because i'm like hungry, like i'm hungry. and that's why i go out and sell and reach out to people and follow up and that kind of thing. you got to be hungry. i know you're working, but i need to see sales. lemonis: so now what do we do? the two of you, to get past this? jill: work together, team. carter: i think we work together as a team. lemonis: are you open to him having more of a operational role? jill: absolutely. uh-huh. lemonis: should you rent this space? jill: well, i don't know. this -- you know, i think that we -- i mean, i see potential. i mean, i see our business going, but. lemonis: the chicken or the egg? jill: i think we should rent the space. carter: i think so, too. lemonis: so you guys are in agreement. jill: yes. lemonis: on taking the risk. jill: yes. yes. carter: i think we both understand the risk. but i think we can do it.
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♪♪ lemonis: okay, great. let's head in here. look, i initially gave this task specifically to caroline. caroline's not here. jill is here. it almost feels like jill just hijacked the process again. so today we're on a different page about your label. i've been kind about it. and i've done a lot of research since. jill: okay. all right. lemonis: so these are two friends of mine that specialize in consumer packaged goods. by the way, they are twins in case you were... jill: oh, yes. absolutely. lemonis: so jill is the owner. she's tougher than she looks. she knows what she wants and she's not as flexible as she'd like to believe. jill: my daughter, were you able to see what she had done, just to see? ardavan: ah, yes. jill: okay. lemonis: they've communicated. jill: yeah, so they have everything? all right. lemonis: and then you stepped in and took it away from her. so do you want to just go one by one? jill: yeah, let's go one by one. lemonis: great. ardavan: all right.
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jill: ooh, i like that. i love it. lemonis: good to know. jill: i like that, too. i do! lemonis: because your rooster still lives? jill: it does still live and that's important that it's on there. you guys are good. i can't tell. i can't -- i mean, they're all good. i mean, really, that's kind of cool, too, because it's got the farm and the family. lemonis: are you ready for this one? jill: oh, definitely not. no, i don't like that. yeah. i'm sorry. i don't like the black. ooh. it's different. i like different. i do like this up here. we were thinking about the custom bottle having --- it's called a cartouche, where it's a chicken. it sticks out in the glass. lemonis: to me, it's a way to give you your rooster, chicken, whatever you're calling it, ricken. jill: right.
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lemonis: in a way that isn't so in your face country store. it puts a limit on our price. the perceived value of the buyer -- of the retailer -- and the actual consumer. how do i get the most margin? instead of being a $29.99 or $34.99, could get $36.99. jill: sure. lemonis: or $38.99. or a reserve batch at $41.99. how do you do that? i'm trying to keep costs down and margins up. we already know the product is spectacular, but we have to make a larger investment in the bottle itself, whether we're going to raise things or whether we're going to emboss things so that it really stands out. while you may raise the cost between the bottle and the label, $1, $2, $3, the perceived value will allow you to raise the price two to three times the amount that you invest, ultimately driving profitability and expanding the market. jill: i am drawn to this. the twigs. what if they had twigs? lemonis: great.
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jill: i would love that. lemonis: and then it went like this. it went around the back and it finished up here. jill: i would love that. that would be very cool. lemonis: okay? jill: uh-huh. lemonis: i do like the fact that jill has embraced a logo. but in the back of my mind, i'm wondering, is she just saying that and she's going to do something else? is this how she really feels? i have a little bit of excitement, but i'm also nervous still. so i know that caroline's going to nursing school in the fall. jill: yes. lemonis: but i wanted her to work on this project. and i got the sense from her that you were like, "you can work on it, but i'm going to come over the top and i want to make sure nothing's done without me knowing about it." i'm frustrated. if you want to leave the bottle the way it is or you want to leave the labels the way they are, i'm not interested in being in business with you.
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lemonis: i got the sense from her that you were like, "you can work on it, but i'm going to come over the top and i want to make sure nothing is done without me knowing about it." jill: that makes sense. no, no. basically, i was just telling her, keep me in the loop. i know she reached out to you with my approval. like, like, please, you know, find out -- lemonis: you just said it with your approval. jill: no, no. lemonis: i think you're going to have to let other people do some things that don't require you to stamp everything. jill: i would love that because i have been --
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lemonis: well, you say you'd love it, but... jill: pushed, pulled too many different directions and it's overwhelming. seriously. so i might come off like i want to control everything because i kind of... lemonis: finish your sentence. be honest. jill: i can be a control freak. i can be a control freak. but honestly, i can be a control freak, but if someone was to say, "we'll take care of it," i'd be like, "thank you." lemonis: carter is your ace in the hole. jill: oh, absolutely. he's taking ownership with the business and really stepping up. so we're working on this. i am listening to you. [ phone ringing ] jill: hey. lemonis: hi, jill. jill: hi, marcus, how are you? lemonis: i'm pretty frustrated. i got a call from ardavan and kevin, the twins in orange county who are working on the label. i'm hearing from them that she's going back to her original label and abandoned everything they've done.
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jill: uh-oh. okay. lemonis: no, it's not going to be uh-oh. i'm just being honest with you. so the key for me through this whole process was making sure that it was collaborative and making sure that we're doing what's best for the business. i think your process to get progress is broken. jill: okay. lemonis: the way you see your business and the way i see your business are very different. you want to be local and country. and i want to be big and national. the only people that really know your brand today are in california. that bottle isn't selling in texas or florida or new york. i sent bottles to southern wine and spirits in new york. jill: oh, okay. lemonis: they're not interested. their comment to me was that we look too homemade. like we're printing labels in the back room. jill: that's tough feedback, but honest. i mean, i do want to go national and i want to go international.
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i'm sorry for the breakdown in communication. i'm confused. i'm just -- i'm trying -- i don't want to hurt anybody's -- i don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. i'm trying to -- to please everybody. that's my problem. lemonis: yeah, i think what -- you are trying to please everybody and you are a people pleaser, which is why -- which is, i think, what the core of the problem is. i feel like you're doing things on an island, and i know you don't see it that way, but it's still not clear to me why you said yes to even being in business with me. it's still not clear to me. and the reason that i say it's not clear is because i feel very left out. carter: i did see a couple labels, like maybe two weeks after, and i assumed that she would be in contact with marcus and showing him what she's working on as well, but doesn't sound like that's the case. we should be keeping an open book for everything.
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oh. -what the. oh my goodness! i don't suppose you can sing, can you? ♪ the snow's comin' down ♪ -mommy? ♪ i'm watching it fall ♪ watch the full story at www.xfinity.com/sing2 lemonis: if you want to leave the bottle the way it is or you want to leave the labels the way they are, i'm not interested in being in business with you. jill: i'm sorry about that. i didn't mean to leave you out.
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lemonis: but you kind of do it with everybody, jill, including the kids. you're driving the process and nobody else is really getting to put any input. jill: so i apologize because we are one team. lemonis: i think jill does everything she can to avoid conflict, except she creates conflict by saying yes to your face and sometimes having a different perspective in the background. and what i would rather her do is just object in front of me. bye. jill: bye. well, that was fun getting my ass chewed out. i was in trouble. i kind of knew it. carter: i think he was right. caroline: i think he was right, too. jill: he was right that i'm a control freak. carter: you're getting better at your miscommunication, but that is one thing that -- jill: okay. i'm sorry. ♪♪ ♪♪
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♪♪ lemonis: what's happening, my man? carter: hey, marcus, how you doing? good to see you. lemonis: you're doing good? carter: looking good. lemonis: what's the good word? carter: oh, welcome. we've been moved in for about a week and a half now. lemonis: where's your mom at? jill: right here. i didn't want to interrupt you. lemonis: hi. how are you? jill: good, how are you? lemonis: good to see you. jill: good to see you, too. lemonis: so this is where everything is. how much bigger is this? carter: about three times the size? lemonis: oh, wow. i wanted to head back to sonoma because, over the last couple of weeks since my last phone call, i wanted to see if jill would actually make things right in making the changes that we all agreed to. normally, i keep my communication with the businesses pretty controlled during the period of time to make sure there's no mistakes and that it's clear. in this particular case, i would say that it's been anything but clear. and so, i'm here largely to confront jill on does she even really want a partner? what are these? carter: those are cans. we were going to do 8% canned cocktails.
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lemonis: oh, that's the first time i heard of that idea. do you have canning? carter: no, we have to send those to a co-packer. lemonis: wait, what? jill: i'm sorry. we've been talking about this for a while, but maybe he forgot. lemonis: did you forget? carter: no. lemonis: i think everybody would agree. you know exactly what you want for your business. i think the problem is we're all riding in the car, except instead of being in the backseat, you've locked us in the trunk. i would say that in our time together, i would give myself an f. jill: why? lemonis: because you're operating the exact same way you are the day i met you. i wasn't able to get you to see anything any differently. jill: we have learned a lot. i mean, we moved into a new space. we needed a bigger space. lemonis: but you needed that regardless of whether you met me. jill: true. lemonis: the thing that was important to me is that the bottle and the label and the presentation to the marketplace be different. jill: yes. lemonis: i got an f. what i've learned about you is that your talent
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is bursting at the seams, the problem is, is that you don't let other people take that talent and do what they do best to get the most out of it. you don't even communicate with him. i can't do business with you because i don't ever know where we're going. jill: okay. lemonis: and when we agree on something, sometimes i think you think about it and then you know that you want to go a different direction and then you don't tell anybody. when we're together and you say yes to me, i leave thinking it's done. and then all of the sudden, two days later, it's a different story. but it happens in an environment that i'm like, wait, what happened? jill: i didn't do anything because i didn't want -- i didn't want to change until i got your approval on what label you wanted. lemonis: jill, when we had a decision, i ended up finding out by accident that it changed. i ended up finding out by accident that there's cans here. i ended up finding out by accident that you hired a marketing agency. where's our bottle? where's our label? it's the one that you created.
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jill: there was just, i think, a miscommunication. and i'm sorry that i came across kind of all over the place. lemonis: you didn't come across anything negative. you just came across as a person who may not be ready to let go yet. i really felt the need to deliver this idea that maybe it wasn't the right thing for me to be in business with her. it's frustrating for me, and i can't imagine how frustrating it is for the kids. but the kids have said time and time again that she's going to ultimately do what she wants. she really wasn't open to anybody's ideas. mine, carter's, caroline's, grant's. so what i think we should do is we should take a step back and reset. jill: okay. lemonis: i would like you to take the next period of time and solidify the partnership and relationship and communication with your beautiful family. jill: okay. lemonis: and then we can re-meet again. i think you're an amazing person. i just think you're not ready to have a business boyfriend. okay, guys, take care. jill: thanks a lot. bye. lemonis: i think it's important for business owners
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to just own who they are. and what jill should have said to me from the beginning is, "i'd be more than happy to have you invest in my business, but ultimately, i'm going to make 100% of the decisions and i'm going to listen to you, but i'm not actually going to execute it, even if i agree with it. do you want to still invest?" ♪♪ ♪♪ lemonis: so i'm here in draper, utah, right outside of salt lake city, and i'm meeting a business owner who has a leash business. let's take a look. -[ barking ] heather: this dog almost tore off his owner's arm, and so now she has a leash on, using pressure to help to calm her down. lemonis: that's crazy. a leash business in utah struggles to pull its business forward. cost to make it? heather: i wouldn't know what it costs. i've just never been involved in that side of it. lemonis: you guys knew i was coming, right? heather: yeah. lemonis: you got to know this... and an owner who doesn't know her numbers. i'm getting tired of you not knowing stuff. heather: yeah. yep, i agree 100%. lemonis: but do you agree, though? 'cause you agreed last time. heather: yes. yes. yeah. lemonis: and now we're standing here again today,
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