downside the patience is running thin for lps. people who see that diversification will continue to do so, morgan. >> leslie picker, thank you. that will do it for us here on "squawk on the street" with the dow up about .8% but the s&p just dipg negative and nasdaq down 1.5%. "techcheck" starts now ♪ good tuesday morning welcome to "techcheck" isle carl quintanilla with jon fortt and deirdre bosa the results are in, elizabeth holmes guilty. the reporter who broke the story wide open will join us this hour then, what should we make of the metaverse, a blip on the radar or investing opportunity of a life time.

warren buffett's apple stake topping 162 billion. timeline of that trade is coming up next. we're obviously watching tech stocks losses in the nasdaq pi piling up today as the s&p, jon, joins it in the red. >> yeah. but first, some news getting breaking amd, slate of new products, chips, more than 20 new cpus designed for notebooks got some new gaming products as well. a lot of design wins here. more than 200, topping last year's design wins meaning that these chips are going, planning to be put into oem, customer laptops. we're going to speak with amd ceo lisa su about all of this in just a few minutes as well as the pc outlook for consumers and for businesses in 2022, deirdre. consumer electronic shows where

we were originally planning to have this conversation, but, hey, we're still having it it's consumer electronics week here on "techcheck." >> we are. we're just not in vegas, jon i know you were supposed to be there on the ground as were many, many others. likely the first of a few conferences we'll see go more virtual. though this is still happening i'm very excited to talk to dr. lisa su, jon, you mentioned the consumer pc outlook, what a change over the last two years we have seen these levels just come up from a pc for every household to a pc, high performing one, too, for many people, many individuals so that floor, carl, which has increased so much over the pandemic, interested to hear her thoughts and where we settle post pandemic is this something that will stay are people still going to need those refreshes. that they are so well positioned to accommodate to benefit from as this company is more than $182 billion market cap. >> jon, does seem like some of the reports about the new product have a patina of

security around them and that will be interesting to see what lisa thinks security will mean to investors and customers in the coming year >> yeah. i think a lot of the emphasis here, though, will be on graphics and i think a lot of the question that i'll have, too, is about the mix. we've talked a lot, for good reason, about the supply issues when it comes to the chip industry so, what areas of the pc market is amd going to be able to supply are they going to be able to target what are the implications for asps, average selling prices and margins because of all that. we'll get those answers in just a few. >> yeah. that interview coming up soon. let's turn first, though, to elizabeth holmes, deliberations in that wire fraud trial coming to a close last night finally with a partially guilty verdict. our yasmine has been there since the beginning. yasmine, you have been inside the courtroom every single day of this trial. rain or shine. what was the scene that unfolded

there as the verdict was being read out last night? >> reporter: deirdre, the scene was tense, but we did not see any emotion at all from elizabeth holmes as the verdict was handed down. she sat there stone faced. at one point she looked down the jury really didn't look at her either when the verdict was handed over and the jury left. holmes got up, walked over to her parents, embraced them, embraced her partner, billy evans. her father kissed her on her forehead and she left the courtroom. it was a mixed verdict that she got. so the jury found her guilty of defrauding investors, but not defrauding the patients. sentencing is up next. holmes will be back in court next week for that and it's entirely up to the judge to decide on it. you know, they're going to be looking at things like her prior record if she showed any remorse, all of that stuff. legal experts tell me that they're really going to take into account the amount lost here in holmes' case, we're talking about hundreds of millions of

dollars. if you add up each count, the maximum she could face is 65 years behind bars. that shyly unlikely. but deirdre, you've got to wonder what elizabeth holmes is thinking today she was the darling of silicon valley she was a billionaire, at least on paper rubbing shoulders with the who's who. but this morning, she is facing a very uncertain future. >> yeah. quite the fall one that we have tracked so closely over the years yasmine, thank you so much for all the great reporting. i know you continue to track this story the reporter who broke the theranos fraud story wide open many years ago john careyrou will join us on "techcheck." guys, we've been talking about the implications of this for so long now that we have a verdict, you know, how many other companies are out there? we know there's still so much money for private companies. the whole spac movement has allowed some of the

earlier-staged companies with big promises to go public earlier. we have a statement as well from tim draper, who is one of the early investors in theranos. and maybe not what some people might be expecting he said the verdict makes me concerned that the spirit of entrepreneurship in america is in jeopardy. what has made america and silicon valley great is the ability to recognize what is possible now draper has for a long time, guys, even despite what has come out, defended elizabeth holmes but he's basically taking this opportunity to say that entrepreneurs sometimes they have to make big promises and be allowed a lot of leeway to achieve them and perhaps she wasn't given that. certainly not the popular opinion, carl. >> no. jon, there seems to be a difference, i think, between what draper is calling innovation and progress, meaning you fight hard to make your product work and promising that your product works today, which clearly we believe is what holmes tried to argue. >> this one is -- this one is

deep when it comes to not just private but also public companies in silicon valley. there's that old metaphor, that old saying about putting lipstick on a pig, making something look better than it is i think in tech in silicon valley in certain circles that's so prevalent that there should be like a whole industry of pig makeup out there there are stories about how very prominent and lauded ceos have ginn keynote presentations about products that didn't entirely work yet right? but they weren't due to launch quite yet. by the time they launched they were working boy, wasn't that great and so i think there are questions here about when is it okay to apply lipstick and when is it fraud? now clearly to a lot of people and based on the great work of journalists, specifically john carreyrou, this was fraud as the jury found but i think there's some soul searching to take place within

both public and private company ceos about how far, carl, is too far. >> yeah. and you know, you do see this at some -- to some extent sorry, carl. one last thing you see this playing out i mentioned spac are allowing companies to go earlier. the investors that lost in the case of theranos and elizabeth holmes are investors with a lot of money you look at nikola and the claims that trevor milton made and he will be on trial for april. i wonder what the implications are here you have this case in the public when he's about to get his turn at his investor promises that reached ordinary retail investors. >> yeah. interesting. we'll see what happens on the sentencing front in the days to come. meanwhile, i have to keep your eye on the markets here s&p taking a leg lower, back below 4,800. nasdaq is down about 1.5%. tech stock is obviously selling off. our next guest remains bullish on cloud names this year data dog and snowflake where should we look for value

byron is with us obviously some of this is related to the macro, maybe some calendar issues. but have you been struck by the action the last day and a half >> well, great to be back. and i would pull it out even a layer above that i've been struck by the action the last 60 days there certainly has been specific outliers with some bad news c 3 a-i, agora, but across the basket, the cloud industry and software wholistically has just been hammered. down almost 30% in the last 60 days and you can look at this as a mix of fear and taxes and a number of drivers, but it's been quite dramatic >> what makes you so encouraged by the action in some these cloud names? >> well, fundamentally these businesses remain the drivers of the new economy. and we have to remember that all of those trends that people were excited about a year ago in the 2020 market when this basket returned almost 100% those remain today

the digital transformation, the a.i.-ml imperative, movement to cloud especially with the omicron resurgence, we need to remember that these stocks are the enablers of the work from home and distributed economy so when you look at the market now down 30% throughout last year, i was on this show many times talking about the high quality of these names but admittedly the high prices and saying they were forward priced by about a year. well, we now rolled forward in that year and we've taken a 30% afterchristmas sale discount so we now have these businesses trading at mid teens multiples which i absolutely am for the first time in many appearances on this show can say the basket feels like a buying opportunity today. >> byron, there's a difference, though, in how a lot of these companies have been treated. i'm looking at shopify, which is down more than 8% today. and i'mlooking at zoom, which think is down more than 6% today. zoom is back to levels where it was right around the time when the pandemic was just getting started. shopify is still up for the past 12 months, i believe

but both have these interesting stories that have room to build on but i think there's a question of exactly how they're going to expand their influence, isn't there? how should investors distinguish between the different types of discounts and stories? >> yeah. so you've got the premium names, the data dogs and the snowflakes still trading deep into the double digits for multiples. snowflake has been trading for 13 consecutive quarters. their leadership teams and growth rates you can see a premium is deserved. the names you mentioned, look at zoom, do cue sign, companies trading at 7 to 15 times revenue, levels that they haven't been at in many months frankly, if you look at the basket trading in the 12s now, that goes back to pre2018 levels that seems like premium high quality names that are driving this digital transformation that

are now at extremely reasonable prices both by historical levelings and overlayer the growth rates, businesses growing at 30, 40, 50%, many like adobe creating free cash flow, ores deep in the double digits premium names will persist and at these multiples ifeel like the market has oversold and gone to this fear mode and greed at some point will settle back in >> right but byron, part of the selloff had to do with the macro environment this group is facing in the upcoming year, right? backdrop of fed tightening so what is the catalyst that will create another rerating of these stocks >> yeah. there's the backdrop of chaos across the whole market certainly. you could add that the build back better clause, the dpi print led to this fed pivot. there's a lot of uncertainty about omicron, supply chain issues of all those i would argue most are neutral to positive including omicron

the one that stands out is the fed movements in reaction to the cpi and inflationary reaction that sent people into fear mode has them chasing fang stocks and free cash flow stocks. however, when you look at this basket and software specifically, it's inherently deflationary they are the drivers of this shift. those trends are going to remain and many are selling in enterprise markets have a multiyear horizon in their buying universe that's going to roll through 2022, 2023 and beyond and so i don't see a slow down in the overall trends. i see a pricing situation where people felt that they may have been running hot last year, but this reaction seems oversold and way overbaked. >> finally, byron, since we have you, i wanted to get your quick take on the elizabeth holmes' verdict and what you think the implications may or may not be for silicon valley at a time when there's still so much cash sloshing around the private markets and so many companies

going public with big promises >> you know, unfortunately i disagree with the comments you quoted from tim draper as a fundamental optimist in tech investor, everyday we get up thinking hopes and dreams and meeting with teams about what's possible but she crossed a line and ethics and integrity and accountability needs to be present. and i do think justice will served here. i hope that this is a reminder that the industry has those principles at heart and everyday as we're driving to change the economy and to create the new new thing, we do that in an honest, high integrity way and that these discussions especially with board members, investors, team members need to be totally trance parents because that's how we can all accomplish these lofty goals failure is okay. it happens a lot but lying is not. >> byron, appreciate that very much, as that's huge news obviously anyone in the business of innovating. appreciate it. good to see you. >> always a pleasure

thank you. now the nasdaq is down more than 1.5% today. giving back yesterday's gains. amd, not immune to the selloff lisa su, the ceo of amd, is with us on the other side of this break. "techcheck" is just getting started. at fidelity, your dedicated advisor will work with you on a comprehensive wealth plan across your full financial picture. a plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. this is the planning effect.

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♪ time for a gut check today's hpe stock jumping today. ups price target to 20 bucks a share. says the company is well positioned to manage server and storage dynamics and also believes networking, high performance compute will see solid growth shares up nearly 4% today. plus, barclays points out the stock has been lagging other deep value hardware names like hp ink and dell expect a catchup, jon. dee, amd announcing 25 new products this hour, including the verizon 6,000 series update. promising to deliver faster mobile processer experiences for content creation and gaming.

sector is coming off a big year. easily outperforming the s&p thanks to huge demand during a continued global shortage. one reason analysts report released this week predicts semiconductor sales are expected to grow by nearly 10% in 2022, crossing $600 billion. joining us now for exclusive interview on the heels of the product release or announcement is amd ceo lisa su lisa, great to see you and i want to dive right in. talking a lot about mobile here, it is timed to the consumer electronics show, but you've also got some business pcs in here, specifically lenovo, the z 13, z 16 which we saw some leaks to that thinkpad design coming out. so, how does supply look so far in '22, specially the difference between the first half and the second half as you look to get these chips and products

>> yeah, so good morning, jon. happy new year to you all and great to be with you this morning. it's an exciting day for us. as we kick off 2022, we've launched a whole slew of new products across notebook pcs as well as desk tops and previewing 2022 as another big year for high performance computing and i think you guys have said it well. the pcs essential to so much of what we do 2021 was an amazing year for pcs. we shipped as an industry 350 million pcs or so and we believe 2022 will be another exciting year so for this overall conversation about both consumer pcs, where people want more premium and highly featured notebooks to commercial pcs where again we're doing a lot of optimization in terms of the features and functions. we're very optimistic about 2022 and from a demand standpoint, demand continues to be extremely strong and from a supply standpoint,

we're continuing to ramp up supply as we go through the year so, we expect to again have another big year for pcs >> tell me has the refresh cycle shifted both in consumer and perhaps more important in commercial because i got this sense, right, we're living in this hybrid world where companies are expecting employees to come back into the office but now they're not. employees got to stay productive i imagine they're going to need laptops therefore and laptops with a decent amount of power. different amount of flexibility required how much does graphics demand play into that and how much is commercial demand and the refresh cycle affected >> yeah. those are great points, jon. and i think that's true. you know, i think as we look forward into 2022 and as we think about what do we need to ensure that we're productive, anywhere we want to work and anywhere we need access, you know to our computing.

it does require higher performance pcs with more capability and so we see on the commercial side, the enterprise refresh cycle looks to be robust we continue to see people wanting higher performance capability whether you're doing more video and really communications or you're doing more applications at home. we also see on the consumer side, people wanting more premium devices as well as gaming continues to be a really, really hot market segment. overall, i think the key is, the technology expectations keep going up, whether you're talking about graphics performance or, you know, today our verizon 6,000 series, our 24 hours of battery life as well as just significantly higher computing capability and all of those are things that consumers, as well as enterprise users want as we

look forward >> yeah. you and i last talked at code in the fall, you talked about the importance going forward of hetero genius computing. i can't help but see that playing out in the consumer side with what apple is doing in the macs and m1 line of processors can you give an outlook just -- not talking about a financial outlook, more of a technology outlook for 2022 and the kinds of efficiency and flexibility that is going to be required of chips to satisfy the demand that, you know, companies like apple are satisfying now >> well, i think the whole concept of optimizing your computing for the application that you're using is absolutely the way to go, and that's sort of the trend with the tech we talk about hetero genius computing where you use the right computing for the right applications so, if you're doing a heavy graphics application you're

going to see the graphics kick into gear. when you're not using it, you can actually turn it off and save battery life. the optimization that we're doing with our largest oem partners, partners like hp and lenovo is exactly around that. together with microsoft and really optimizing hardware, software and silicon together to get that better experience overall. >> dr. su, it's deirdre. great to have you on the program. when you see pc the association is with amd but when you say a.i., the association still very much with nvidia how important is it to change that perception, invest more on the graphics side which you talked about especially more and more ceos and companies talk about the implications and talk about the deal with meta also. >> yeah, absolutely, deirdre so when we think about where technology is going over the

next five years, it's all about high performance computing whether you're talk about computing in the data center or computing at the edge or computing with consumers and of course a.i. is a very large piece of natchthat we're investing heavily on the jpu side we look at it as a wholistic system so we want to be great partners to the largest cloud companies out there. so, we're excited about our partnership with metta and partnerships across the board with thelargest cloud providers, like google, like amazon, like microsoft and the key there is we're building road maps now five years out. we like to start the year talking about what you're going to see in 2022, but you can expect a lot more for us in 2022 across data center, pcs as well as gaming and then going forward the road map is full with lots of exciting tech

lisa, you're a deep amd, a deep tech supplier for virtual worlds, for what some people have taken to calling the metaverse, though i think i have a problem with that whole metaverse narrative out right now. so i wonder as you look at '22 and maybe even into '23, so what degree has something fundamentally shifted versus to what degree is it just a continuing momentum in the gaming space whether it's console, whether it's pc what do you make of this whole metaverse thing? >> well, jon, what i would say is the overarching theme is that people need more computing and whether you call it the metaverse or you call it high performance computing or, you know, you call it just more applications people need more computing and we're able to provide more so i do believe it is a bit of a continuation as we look forward. and i think that's really

exciting what's fundamentally changed in my mind, people used to think of semiconductors as sort of, hey, this is a mature industry and do you even need all that computing power? and i think the overarching comment or the overarching theme is people need more and more and more and more. and that's an exciting place to be you know, i think as an industry, working across the ecosystem, we love the fact that there are more applications. we talked about a.i. we talked about machine learning these virtual worlds all require more computing and more graphics capability and i think users want that. and companies want that. and so that's probably -- it is a continuation, but it's a continuation sort of at a much higher point than perhaps we would have thought if we were talking about this 12 or 18 months ago. >> that makes sense. that i get lisa su, ceo of amd. thank you. >> thanks so much, guys.

if you're looking for more exposure to the chip sector, marvell is a top pick. they bump the target to 115. we're going to get a lot more on the conviction and the forthcoming sentencing of elizabeth holmes in a moment with john carreyrou the author of "bad blood. "techcheck" is back in a second. so, who's it going to be? tom? could be danny. guess it's on maggie. should we have another one? talk to us about retirement today. feel comfortable about tomorrow. massmutual. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get

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welcome back to "techcheck." i'm carl quintanilla, jon fortt, deirdre bosa and julia boorstin. the tech selling remains unabated today julia has a timeline of buffett's activity in apple coming up. but first a news update with rahel solomon. >> good morning. and here is what's happening at this hour. a record 4.5 million americans quit their jobs in november. another sign of worker confidence and tightness in the labor market job openings fell to 10.6 million but that's still high by

historical standards. u.s. manufacturing activity slowed in december and was weaker than forecast the ism manufacturing index dropped to its lowest level since late january, but there are indications that supply constraints are easing input costs for factories posted biggest monthly drop since early 2020. oil prices are rising this morning. brent crude above $80 a barrel opec and allies agrees to remain steady output. toyota was the best selling auto brand in the u.s. last year beat out general motors for the top spot that's a distinction that gm has held for 90-consecutive years, carl apparently the issue was that toyota was better able to manage supply chain issues better than gm so, proof is in the pudding, i guess. back to you. >> indeed. thank you. rahel solomon. we'll turn back to the elizabeth holmes verdict today one of the former "wall street journal" reporters who cracked the case wide open, author of "bad blood" an amazing book if

you haven't read it already, john carreyrou >> thank you for having me >> i want to break down the various verdicts in a minute, but overall, i wonder if there was a period having covered her the way you have for so long where you wondered whether or not any guilty verdicts might be in doubt. >> i definitely had my doubts especially the day that she testified about her alleged abuse at the hands of sonny balwani. that testimony was really emotional and you could tell the jurors were riveted by it. i was in the courtroom that day. and at the end of the court day, i came away thinking maybe she isn't going to be convicted. i think the prosecution was able to turn the tables or at least make up lost ground by cross-examining her and then i think the prosecution's closing arguments were really strong as well >> right now, the asymmetry between verdicts related to investors

versus patients, do you find that disappointing >> i mean, it's disappointing in the sense i thought the biggest outrage of the scandal was that she went live with technology and experimented on patients but that's not what the charges were the charges were that she allegedly defrauded patients and that was always going to be a very hard case to make, the notion that she deliberately tried to defraud patients and tried to, you know, illegally make money from them i don't think was going to be a very compelling case and so, i thought from the beginning once the indictment came out 3.5 years ago that the investor part of the case was the more compelling one. the one that was easier to prove. and that's how it played out >> john, good morning, it's deirdre. i wonder we're still waiting on sentencing if you think that there's an argument to be made that perhaps she shouldn't go to prison

the information had a piece that argued this that said there was so much excitement around a young female founder really set her up to fail you look at other cases like anthony, went other to uber, pardoned by trump. do you think that that comes through at all in the sentencing >> well, i really disagree with the notion that she shouldn't do any prison time. i think she's been charged on four counts of wire fraud. she bilked $144 million out of those three investors. really if you count murdoch and other investors from that round, it's several hundred million dollars more i think that crime deserves a stiff punishment and i think the message also needs to be sent to silicon valley that you can't take the exaggerating and the hyping too far. you can't let it cross into lying or there will be consequences so i think it's important for

there to be prison sentence so that it sinks in with vcs in entrepreneurs in silicon valley that there are consequences to lying and there are consequences to committing fraud. >> john, how important do you think it is that this was a medical product, it was a health product, and how unique is this? because there's -- we saw her in the black turtle neck, the mock turtle neck trying to evoke steve jobs apple capping $3 trillion in market cap yesterday, that's a real company with real products, but she was trying to spin something else there's an argument out there that she's being perhaps -- she's having the book thrown at her more because she's a woman or -- i don't know but what do you make of that argument and the uniqueness, perhaps, of theranos, among all of the entrepreneurs and all of the fraud cases that you've seen or studied >> yeah. i mean, i think it's an important point, which is that

she had a med tech company this was a med tech startup. this wasn't a computer company and so, yes, she was following in the footsteps of her idol, steve jobs, of her early mentor, larry ellison who famously exaggerated the features of oracle's early data base products but those guys knew that they were op right in the computer industry they were operating in the software world and the consequences in that world aren't that you're putting patient's lives at risk. with the medical product, with a blood testing diagnostic product that doctors and patients, thousands of, tens of thousands of them by the way in this case that doctors and patients are relying on for important medical decisions, i think the stakes are a lot higher so i think what's unique about this case isn't so much that it was a woman and that she is getting the book thrown at her because she's a woman, it's that she was operating in the medical world. and that anyone with common sense operating in the medical

world and the healthcare sector understands thestakes are much higher and you can't put people's lives at risk. >> right >> finally, john, in the book you document pretty well the pressure you were put under as a reporter, the tables full of lawyers, the intimidation i would argue. and in the trial, she did say that she messed that whole communication process up i wonder how you took that >> it didn't feel very genuine or authentic to me it just felt like something she rehearsed because, you know, the way she went after the whistleblowers, tyler schulz, adam rosendorf, it was really ugly and the way she went after me and "the journal" was ugly, too. the law firm threatened us with litigation so i think she had to show some regret about those actions in front of the jury. but i don't think she really meant it and back then i know for a fact

based on all my reporting that she was piloting that whole campaign to intimidate my sources and to kill my story and so i don't really think that she has many regrets >> john, we appreciate your time and coverage during this entire episode. it's good to see you john carreyrou. >> thanks for having me. as we head to break, check out amazon, wolff research calling the stock a top pick for 2022 and if that sounds familiar, it's because it is tesla, goldman, and evercore all with similar calls in recent weeks. after the stock underperformed its megacap last year, there's more "techcheck" after this.

maybe the biggest winner in apple's climb to a $3 trillion market cap, warren buffett julia boorstin takes a look at one of the most successful purchases of all time from the oracle of omaha. julia. >> well, jon, as apple's market cap crossed $3 trillion, berkshire hathaway's stake in the company hit a record $162 billion. now, warren buffett isn't known as a tech investor, but this is one of the most lucrative investments in his career. berkshire began buying the stock in 2016. he called the holding a family jewel in his letter to berkshire

shareholders last year and it is incredibly valuable one. look at what buffett said on cnbc back in february of 2020. >> we own 5 bnt 5% of apple. probably the best business i know in the world. and we own 5.5% of it. that is a bigger commitment that we have in anything except insurance and the railroad so, it's our third largest business >> now berkshire spent about $36 billion to buy over 1 billion apple shares between 2016 and 2018 berkshire trimmed its position selling 12% of its position for about $13 billion, which buffett admitted last year to berkshire shareholder meeting was probably a mistake. now with that sale, berkshire lost out on $9 billion in apple's stock appreciation since then now the company has had nearly $140 billion in realized and unrealized gains, despite

missing out on that 9 billion. now apple is berkshire's largest holding. accounting for about 45% of its portfolio. that's as of the end of the third quarter. and carl, i just always think about warren buffett's old addage, don't invest in what you don't understand and he clearly understands the appeal of those apple devices and its services business. >> yep grand kids had something to do with that. they were a long way from just coke and wells fargo, julia. pretty fascinating. still to come this morning, our next guess calls the (swords clashing) metaverse evolutionary not revolutionary. that's after a quick break here. aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme.

♪ check out shares of pinterest. downgrading the stock from buy to neutral this morning, slashing price target from 46 to 39 bucks those cuts coming after the platform saw global users fall in back-to-back months down 8% across the asia-pacific region, more than 7% in latin america. pinterest daily average daily downloads also declining over four consecutive months according to data from octopia shares down almost 9% this morning along with the rest of the social media stocks. jon, under pressure along with the rest of tech. >> yeah. the overall nasdaq not reflecting the hit that a lot of companies are taking so many techs down more than 5% so far this morning. meanwhile, a check on

another mover we talked a lot about before, direct to consumer brands recently. this morning, wedbush calling the bottom for the realreal. upgrading to outperform while adding the new cfo could be, quote, key to improving profitability. stocks still down 40% in the last year, though. don't go away. nurse mariyam sabo knows a moment this pure... ...demands a lotion this pure. new gold bond pure moisture lotion. 24-hour hydration. no parabens, dyes, or fragrances. gold bond. champion your skin.

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i think it's lumping together some good things with some things that don't make sense yet. >> our own john on the metaverse. not the first time you've expressed, let's call it skepticism, and we often debate here the buzz word that we've been hearing so often. is it investable or not? our next guest thinks so, kind of he's a little skeptical, too mark joins us. i appreciated the nuances in your note. i tend to like to call it sort of the new name for the internet economy, but when we talk about it being investable, what's interesting in your note you say that the majority of the big players like meta, microsoft, nvidia they already have the head start. let me start by giving us perhaps some of the more under the radar metaverse plays that aren't constantly talking about it >> thanks for having me. i tend to agree. the branding of the metaverse

includes all of those connotations that go with it if we expand our definition there are good use cases underneath it and there it's the computing platform and we've done it from desktop to mobile and it might include vr and we're already seeing applications like roblox play that role in the existing role we make it more immersive as we move forward and we've seen facebook go off and change their names effectively acknowledging that the shift was pretty pai painful. you'd rather acknowledge something is coming and say let's invest toward it and let's be ahead of the game and if we can unlock revenue streams along the way, all the better. >> mark, can we talk about the perhaps sub-themes that you see that are real? i look across things like advancements in 3d design, stuff that unity is doing and things

that epic is doing and i look at computer vision both for cars, automotive and in retail stores to be able to identify patterns and all of that takes processing power. i mean, you can call that metaverse, but it's not really that stuff is interesting to me. is it to you >> you know, it certainly is, but as you mentioned a lot of that requires very significant step changes in technology and the capability to go deliver it. i'm sitting here with my device and it's got 5g and there are many parts that i get effectively no reception and therefore how am i supposed to be living in a metaverse, so there's still a lot that needs to become zero lag and if we're not going to be immersed as we walk around. the first is enterprise, we're already seeing microsoft do that, and right now we're all

doing this and if it's a bit more immersive than videoconferencing, it maches all of the sense in the world. when you think about mobile, the blackberry revolution was an enterprise device, it makes all of the sense from a metaverse perspective and on the second one it's exactly what i've seen with the likes of roblox, epic and others where gen-x spends more time online immersed than they do in school. they have more friends in the virtual environment than they do the physical let's go sell virtual goods and virtual utility, that makes all of the sense in the world if that's where their friends are and that's where they want to buy goods to communicate their status and what they need to communicate to their friends. >> the question will be will there be some kind of line that delineates the end of high-performance game being or we won't know until we're well into it. >> it's the latter and the

mobile revolution acknowledges the same thing we shifted our stuff from desktop to mobile and the app ecosystem is how most of us engage with the internet today, but a lot of that is still very much backwards competitive with dfk desktop and you can access it through your browser the same will happen with gaming and other utility like applications in the next computing platform where it is going to be backwards compatible, they'll call it web2.0 and develop their own kind of solutions and applications in the next world and we're not going to see this aha moment where it takes off and we're not looking back it will all be backwards comp patible and like many of us have desktops and still using our smartphones and our desktops so it will be much more gradual. >> yeah. and it goes to the argument that it's happening in front of our eyes thank you so much for being with us

we'll talk to you again soon >> thanks a lot. if you missed part of the show don't forget to follow and subscribe to our podcast listen any time, anywhere, wherever you download podcasts "tech check" is back in a memont

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♪ ♪ we have somed sad news to mention, a day after apple hit the $3 trillion, blackberry phones are dead. no calls, no texts, data, e-mails. you can find a spot in that drawer next to your pager. good-bye, physical keyboard, good-bye brukbreaker, good-bye fat-fingered typos blackberry phones were 22 years old, john. >> and d, i know you are canadian i'm sorry for your loss, but i want to encourage you by saying in every flicker, in every slack that's birthed in the mind of fellow canadian stu butterfield, for every shopify merchant out there, also a canadian company, blackberry will live on in our hearts. >> it was the largest canadian company at one point the gem of canadian tech, but as you said, john, we have shopify

now which has taken that crown and been able to maintain the business, but carl, i still miss that keyboard. i tell you that that might have come back in some form, but no >> bbry will liver in our hearts forever. let's get to the half. ♪ ♪ >> all right, carl thank you so much. welcome to "the halftime report." new records for your money, apple tops $3 trillion and market cap will debate both plus it's day two of our stop summit top picks. johning me, stephanie link, bryn talkington, jim lebenthal and anastasia omarosa, chief strategist at i.m. capital the s&p going for its first close above 4800 and got off to a good start and it is now below that level and you see the dow is the big winner at this moment up 240 the nasdaq is