r play, an easy 10%. i think the deal goesfor at least this price >> okay. we will keep our eyes on that one. joe? >> communication equipment, f5 ffiv is the ticker symbol. >> good stuff. just point out the markets, again, hold in there pretty well considering the cpi print we got. rates are behaving and stocks are up "the exchange" is now. ♪ thank you skrech, scott. hi, everybody. the big story today, absolutely is inplace the cpi rising 7% compared to last year. the biggest jump in 40 years, but like scott just said, markets aren't selling off, bond yields are lower we will look at what the real story here is. and when it comes to evs, one of the biggest challenges is making the cars as cheaply as you can make traditional ones. can ev makers get costs down enough to please customers and bankers? also in rapid fire, travel troubles, payment problems and the crocs craze with amazing

stats. we begin with the markets in the 40-year high inflation take a look at the ten-year. the yield not up today on the big print. it is lower. we are down to 1.71% we were higher before the print came out, so even though we finally got a seven handle for cpi, we are not seeing an outsized reaction in the bond market let's check in with more on the market reaction. bob pisani joining us now. bob. >> 7% year over year inflation is ridiculous and concerning, but it is not above the expectations that of i think that's one reason the market rallied and one reason the yields are lower we have moved 80 points on the s&p since yesterday's, powell's testimony. that's quite a move. let me show you the sectors because tech stocks rallied in that interval. bank stocks are finally starting to slow down a little bit. energy has been on a tear. it is finally slowing down a little compared to the rest of the market most of the time in the last two days consumer staples, utilities, more defensive stocks

lagged a little bit. let me show you the tech names because it is a bifurcation today. the mega cap generally is doing better apple and microsoft generally outperforming but, once again, a lot of the speculative tech stuff, cathie wood's ark fun, zoom, you know the list, those are trading on the downside. so a split in technology stock today. energy stock taking a breather we have oil at $82 essentially but energy has been on a tear. look at the xle, the energy etf. it is back to where it was pre-covid, and i mean two years ago essentially. that is complete round trip. quite a move there for the energy market. so the narrative for the market is still intact. there's one little wild card we can't figure out yet it is pretty simple. the economy and the consumer is strong earnings and margins are strong. that's why the market is only 2% off the highs. omicron is not derailing the recovery the wild card is inflation and the fed. that's what everybody is trying to figure out. kelly, when you look at what is going to work when rates go up here, that's the issue

that's the dilemma for equities right now. what do you do with tech what works when rates rise nobody wants bond funds. they're selling them like crazy right now in the etf world people are looking at things like senior loan ltf it is a little bit of safety here because they adjust every few months so there is some safety, but, you know, kelly you are still going way out on the risk curve here you are still dealing with high-yield stuff the market goes down, the economy goes down, that high yield will suffer. it is a tough trade-off right now. you are going to see huge record sales of bond etfs this week because as far as i can see everybody can't figure out why they want to hold anything, government -- government bonds, corporate bonds right now. i'm seeing sales across the board. >> all right bob, we appreciate it. bob pisani staying in the stock market, there is no alternative. that was the message from wharton professor jeremy siegel last hour.

he said dividend stocks are one place to look for inflation protection where else should investors be looking and what stocks should be avoided joining me, the ceo of genter capital management this is music to your ears, isn't it >> absolutely kelly. i have been singing this song quite a while. the fact it was coming to fruition was obvious because it is the only game in town we added to a lot of bonds so i like bonds, but the reality is the math is what it is it is going to be very difficult for people to achieve a significant long-term outperformance, if you will, or even keep pace in bonds. the reality is that, you know, the high dividend stocks that are generating you cash flow, cash flow that at max is going to get taxed at 20% and 15% probably for most people, and then get you a little growth, it is going to be one of the few games in town, if not the only game in town that also gives you some liquidity so your capital is not committed for possibly years at a time

>> one more question to you, dan, which is we are not seeing a lot of movement. if anything yields are falling in the ten-year today. do you want to just comment on that because people are buying, you know, government bonds for safety here. it has not exploded to the upside what would you tell people who aren't so sure we will see runway way rates this year >> i don't think you are going to see runaway rates i think the fed will be very calculated, they will be very sanguine they have been true to their word they would look at the date aand interpret the data. when they're telling us they're likely to have three rate increases, i think the outside chance is maybe you have four. we have to consider that's a hundred basis points increase from where we are now. if you go from 25 basis points to 125 basis points, the economy is not going to come to a halt and crash. i mean when i started in this business, shortly thereafter the prime rate went to 21.5% and it was uncomfortable but we all didn't die so i think people are not going to go to all equities.

they've seen certainly it is a dangerous world out there. they're not going to put, you know, everything into the fire but they're going to reduce what they have in bonds, and new money are going to go probably in equities. >> yeah. dan, i'm going to leave it there and pivot the discussion i really appreciate you joining today. dan genter cole smead is here, president and portfolio manager at smead capital management. cole, appreciate you joining us by phone here today. you have some specific tactical ideas for people who want the know which stocks to be exposed to and which to avoid. why stick with housing definitely it sounds like you guys are sticking with energy. you know, tactically speaking, where do you think investors need to go here? >> well, following your prior guest and in fact what jamie dimon said on you guy's programming, the economy is just so strong right now. the personal savings rate, the cash, the debt ratio are so impressive, and housing has just a very subdued view of the consumer most investors think housing has

found some near-term top we might not see for a while. the reality is, as you know, kelly, this is a drum we have been beating for years and people have doubted it, it has been a great place to make money, and the balance sheets of these businesses have never been set up so well to produce cash and return it back to shareholders at the end of the day. >> you guys think the homebuilders still have room to run. i should mention, by the way, dan's favorite, some of the names are names like brings ton mi bristol-myers, philips, 66, what do you think >> in the energy business you have this incredible scarcity where because of bad capital structures or because of how much investors got punished there's a scarcity of capital willing to poke new holes in the ground what that means is for people that have the balance sheet structure and the strength like the continental resources of the world, like the occidentals of

the world, there's just great money to be made the interesting part, kelly, is if you look at the spring of '20, the things investors should have been buying were the most beat-up balance sheets and stock prices that were going to survive. that has actually been the best money made in the energy space and that's what no one wanted to touch in the spring of '20 >> and that's how it usually works. i know on the auto side, sort of it also fits with how you guys are seeing the world in terms of both demand and also some pricing protection where in the auto space though would you be these are not conventional names i don't think. >> yeah. so we're -- we own the autos in a couple of ways we own obviously some banks that are making auto loans, particularly like an ami credit acceptance on the sub prime side we are launching a new fund today and what we're getting at there are the automakers directly because there are actually automakers outside the united states that have produced wealth i know it is shocking to say but it has actually happened, in

long-term returns. so we own porsche, we own volkswagen and we own bmw. we own most of our capital in that space on the first two, and the brands we get out of those are incredible this is all going on at a time, kelly, when i mean here i am in phoenix. we have all kinds of electric auto manufacturers coming to our town, and they are johnny come latelies the question is will they survive. >> it is funny you say that because we're going to get into that in the next segment in fact cole smead with some international auto names and a lot of plays here in the u.s. as well we really appreciate it. thank you. >> thanks, kelly >> joining me from smead capital management we have a news alert out of the bond market as well. busy to start the hour we just had the first ten-year note auction of the year extremely relevant to the whole discussion and to the whole markets. rick, we were looking pretty strong going into it what just happened >> once again, a counterintuitive response. yes, i fully expect that the auction would represent what we're seeing in the marketplace,

which would mean investors should have stepped up because yields are going down. the inflation data was hot but not necessarily surprising, but that's not the way it turned out. i give the auction a charlie minus, a "c" minus because demand was not good. investors did not step up. so we had 36 billion of reopen ten-years, the first ten-year auction of the year, and the yield 1.723. definitely above where when the issue market was trading so it tailed a bit and the metrics were roughly in line with auction average. nothing spectacular, c minus considering we are making the low yields of the year today one would expect we would see a better interest in the auction i think investors are scratching their heads a bit, as many are, but sometimes it is easier to just look at the landscape today, to me, the dollar index is what jumps out, okay. the euro currency is hot, hot, hot.

investors think if omicron runs around the world and wreaks its damage and maybe disappears quickly, there may be better investment opportunities in europe and their currency is reflecting that. i also think the reason the dollar is moving lower is because interest rates may not be moving up as aggressively, and if that's confusing, everybody should read the "wall street journal" article today that talks about the volker years when rates were way too high considering how he wa attacking inflation by raising rates aggressively this is the mirror image of those times, and sometimes the markets don't make sense but they are what they are >> that chart really sums it up, that big drop in the dollar that we're watching play out here, below 95 rick, really appreciate it as always, rick santelli coming up, the high cost of making evs my next guest says if automakers don't find a way to bring down cost they could face a credit crunch we will look at what makes it so expensive and who it could impact the most. plus higher mortgage rates

there's one under the radar that could be well positioned to benefit. the name and the reason ahead. take a look at the dow heat map as we head to break. salesforce, microsoft, nike leading the index while goldman and j&j are weighing on it we're back in a moment ♪ this is "the exchange" on cnbc today, business is a balancing act. you want your data to be protected and secured. and your customers want seamless and easy. with ibm, you can do both. your company can monitor threats across your clouds, address all those regulations, and still create all new experiences. trustworthy ai powered security. that's why so many businesses work with ibm.

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s ♪ welcome back pretty much every single automaker is ramping up production for electric vehicles now, the question is will there be enough batteries and materials to meet demand phil lebeau spoke what catch working on a solution and he is one of the biggest names in the ev space phil. >> reporter: we are talking about the founder of tesla and for the last four years has been running his own company called red wood materials he left tesla in 2019 as the chief technology officer, but now at redwood this is a company that recycles batteries, specifically lithium-ion batteries. they are ramping up production today we talked to him outside a facility that the company is building next to the panasonic battery plant in sparks, nevada. this will be a $1 billion plant producing anode copper foil which is a critical component in lithium battery cells. the idea, supply enough of the copper foil to go into one

million electric vehicles. here is the reason why projections on ev sales continue to go up as you see automakers saying we're not doing enough right now. it is about 4.5% of the market look where it is expected to be just in the u.s. by 2025, up to 12.5%. j.b. straubel says it may be low. >> if you look how fast adoption is growing in parts of europe and other parts of the world, i think it points a path to potentially even higher percentages than that by mid-decade this is catching people a bit off guard, you know, it is a really strong shift, all the way from internal combustion sales dropping to ev sales increasing by almost 100% in different regions. >> take a look at the ev stocks. the enthusiasm behind electric vehicles is one, kelly, we talked about for sometime. it goes well beyond these automakers that we're showing you here it is all of the automakers, not

just those who are dedicated strictly to electric vehicles but the entire industry. it is conversion that is going on right now and j.b. straubel says if the industry does not ramp up production of critical components and work on getting the supply chain out of primarily asia and expanding it here in the united states, he believes we will see supply shortages. >> yes, and i think he was the one that gave musk him the idea for tesla, if i have my history correct. anyway, regardless, he is a major player phil, stay right there because we want to talk more about the production issues. batteries are one key driver of ev production costs. my next guest says if they don't find the way to bring costs down it could lead to cash flow issues and impact credit ratings. let's bring in steven brown, senior director and lead analyst for the north american automotive sector at fitch ratings. steven, such an important point that people are kind of starting to realize can you start with what it means for legacy automakers who are making this pivot internally >> yes, sure you know, we are seeing clearly

a lot of investment going into evs right now. you know, estimates of half a trillion dollars over the next four or five years, but i think sometimes what gets lost in this conversation is the fact that, you know, right now at least margins on evs are lower than on traditional internal combustion engine vehicles. if we don't see those margins start to improve, you know, as we see the industry trying to, you know, hit some of the targets that have been laid out there over the next, call it eight to ten years, our concern is that, you know, profitability will be hit and that could ultimately have a negative impact on the companies' credit profiles >> would that include companies like ford and gm because they, you know, this is going to negatively impact their credit profiles or are they going to benefit from their deeper pockets >> well, certainly the deeper pockets can help but, you know, they can only help so far. our concern is that, you know, if we do see margins come down through that period, you know, ultimately, you know, if it leads to negative free cash flow

or weaker free cash flow companies might need to start to augment that with, you know, additional debt which could actually raise debt levels so that's something that we're watching and want to make sure investors are aware of >> great point phil, obviously for the smaller startups, a huge question they have to face in terms of just proving that they can do this at scale. >> right and it takes time. scale is the key here, kelly, and i would love to get stephen's perspective on this. stephen, when you look at the big costs that are within the developing and building electric vehicles, so much focus on the battery pack and the battery cells. we know the cost is coming down. is it coming down fast enough in terms of when you look at it you say, yeah, i see these guys getting to the point where this is providing the margin growth that they're hoping to get or are you still worried that the cost is not coming down fast enough >> well, certainly scale helps, and that's definitely something that's helped the industry over the last, you know, five to ten years. but i think one of the concerns

that we have now though is with such a high level of battery demand expected, you know, over the next decade or so, the raw materials that go into those batteries are potentially going to be in short supply. so we'll have to see if that in some ways maybe puts a floor under just how low battery costs can get over the next five to ten years. >> stephen, what would you say about tesla, which has at least had ten years to work on this with a host of sort of original and innovative production ideas they're trying to use to make this more doable >> well, tesla certainly showed the world there can be a market for electric vehicles on large scale, and it has really driven a lot of what we have seen i think throughout the global industry during this transition period that being said though, if you think about tesla, really they're still sort of luxury vehicles, right? the cheapest tesla you can buy is still the model 3 and it is still north of $40,000

as we think of other manufacturers trying to produce cars at scale at lower price points, again, if a battery pack costs, say, $10,000, that could certainly be a concern for margins if you are trying to produce a car that's, say, sub $30,000. >> i think their model 3 is now 45 after the price hikes in the past few price hikes thanks for your time, stephen brown. phil lebeau, thank you for the skpugs a look at the latest struggles ahead. plus one analyst calling this retail stock the most impressive consumer growth story for several more years it is up 70% over the past year. we'll reveal the name coming up.

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welcome back, everybody. the nasdaq continuing its rebound. a modest gain today of about 55 points the s&p is up 11 the dow is up 37 at the moment, and the ten-year remains at a low ebb. meantime, bitcoin, the crypto seizing a rebound after breaking below 40,000 this week bitcoin is up 2% ether is up 4% along with gray scale and the proshares bitcoin etfs and coin base fractionally higher gamestop lower at jefferies, one of the analysts that still covers the stock, cut its price on retails investors will grow restless it is the longest losing streak ever gme is down 1% today biogen following to the lowest level in 2 1/2 years. medicare saying it will limit coverage of the alzheimer's drug

only to patients willing to enter into qualifying clinical trials it is down 7 pernls. we see quest down 6% align down 3.5%. lilly and labcorp down 3%. with demand for rapid covid tests persisting, the ceo of lap corp. will join "closing bell" at 4:00 p.m. don't miss it. now to rahel solomon for a news update here is what is happening at this hour. a texas man has become the first to be charged under new u.s. doping laws governing international sports competition. prosecutors say he distributed performance enhancement years. the ex girlfriend of matt gates has testified in a sex trafficking probe of the congressman and the ex-girlfriend is seeking immunity of obstruction of justice charges in return tore testifying gaetz has denied wrongdoing.

a surprise papal visit pope francis was caught on camera leaving the store with a cd he was given. the pope was a frequent customer of the shop when he was a cardinal and he promised a visit when he met the owner in the vatican. on the news tonight, the white house is sending millions of covid tests to schools but is it the best way to keep classrooms open? tune in tonight at 7:00 eastern. kelly. >> all right rahel, thank you still ahead here, impressive growth a lack of catalyst and spending on cruises is sinking. it is all coming up in "rapid fire" right after this

♪ welcome back, everybody. let's get you caught up on a few stories that should be on your radar. it is time for "rapid fire" and here to break down the headlines and maybe give us some trades, danielle shay, director at operations and our own bob pisani joining us let's talk about the cruise stocks they're feeling the return to normal confusion the big three slightly higher today, and higher 5% to 10% so far this year despite multiple outbreaks aboard vessels, triggering the cdc to warn against cruising regardless of

vaccination status bank of america noting their card data shows a big decline in cruise spending at end of last year with a 40% drop in december versus 2019. danielle, is that going to remained a headwind or does it leave plenty of room to grow >> i do believe it is going to remain a headwind. if you look at the cruise liners right now, first of all, yes, people are going back on cruises, but the fact of the matter is that we are seeing breakouts on the cruise ships. people are being forced to quarantine you're having ships that aren't able to dock all of these things are going to make other people not want to cruise and then when you look at the technicals, you have quite a bit of overhead resistance while the cruise lines have traded higher they traded directly into key resistance levels that for me look like great places to come in and short these stocks sure, they will rally on any positive news but in the long term they're not looking good right now. >> let me add this coda. i don't know ifwe put up the disclosure, you said you don't own any cruise liners at all but

your husband does because he has been trying to convince you that the stocks are going to do better if we see on the disclosures you own it, it is him, not you >> yes >> i love the marital split over this >> we are having a bit of a competition, and i is also working on trying to get me back on the cruise liners one of the cruise liners, i can't remember, i think it is caribbean, if you own 100 shares you get on-board credit. you see, they actually are convincing millennials to buy their shares because of this ridiculous idea. >> wow okay chris, are you among those who are buying up, you know, the cruise lines for some perks on board? >> well, it is good to see you again, kelly i have to say i'm more with danielle's husband than with danielle today i think that for the long term they seem well positioned to me. i would certainly look through the credit card data bank of america looked at today, and i would also look through the omicron problems which are serious but i think relatively short lived.

the one proceed vviso i would h, which is important for your viewers, be careful because they look like they're down 70% to 80% pre-pandemic stock levels but they've issued so much new stock and debt that the actual enterprise value of these companies are much higher than you might think. i still think they would be a nice place to invest over the next year. >> bob, where do you fall? >> well, look, these companies are entirely trading on what is going to happen in the second half of the year so look at, i don't know, carnival for example they used to do $16 billion to $20 billion in revenue they cratered in 2020, 2021 and went down to $5 billion. the analysts expect them to do close to $20 billion this year it is all in the second half of the year they're going all the way back to 2018 all of a sudden. you know what the p/e is there isn't any. they're trading on 2023 estimates about 12 times forward

earnings you know what it used to trade at 12 times forward earnings. my point is the price is way down but the earnings are way down, even the expectations for 2023 i don't eye sigassign ratings b what the market is telling you it is telling you they don't expect upside. >> we'll leave it there. let's talk fintech where the fall-out continues on paypal a price target to $200 a share the shares are around $290 actually, they're around 188 right now and down 40% from the 52-week high the jeffery's analyst admit the downgrade of the stock off the highs is poor optics but see worsening e-commerce trends, decreasing transaction sizes and difficult comps ahead for paypal is this a name you would want to own? >> i think so, kelly you know, i love folks that are bulls at 300, that throw in the towel at 190 so you've got a lot of moving parts here, and i read his note.

it is a perfectly reasonable note he is a good analyst but where i disagree with him is he makes a big point of e-commerce market share is not going to be as strong as we think. i strongly disagree, especially as we invest over the longer term i still see e-commerce taking more and more share from, you know, brick and mortar but the other thing he mentioned a lot is the transaction size, which is going down, as a negative i think that's already in the numbers, and certainly in a stock that's down 40%. fourth -- excuse me, third, we are really excited about pay with venmo, which is obviously a paypal product that's going on amazon, that's going on several other retailers. they will find a way to monetize venmo, and just about everybody and their uncle uses venmo so we're excited about that >> i had a feeling you might like this one after those declines but i have a feeling danielle is not going to what do you say, shay? >> you know what is funny?

i normally hate stocks like this that sold off the highs, are not showing relative strengths, but i like paypal here >> hmm >> yes, but it has to hold 175 though because if it does not hold 175, we don't have any meaningful support until around 125 i like paypal for a variety of reasons. number one, i think that it got bludgeoned unnecessarily on the last two quarters earnings reports. yes, it is done with ebay but i think the amazon partnership is significantly better with paypal than ebay was going to be. ebay only made up 4% of their revenue anyway i think that people aren't looking forward at what the venmo partnership is going to do with amazon, i think it is going to be huge millennials love it. so i am long and i'm looking for places to add more shares. i don't think that it is going to trade higher unless we get some kind of catalyst, perhaps earnings where, you know, these

types of ideas are coming through, the amazon partnership is working really well but i do like this place to add in shares but be careful if it drops to 170 >> very, very interesting. we are still 13 bucks above that level. what's the bob pisani breakdown here >> not to be the curmudgeon here, but at least the analyst admitted he downgrades the stock 40% off the highs. there are 40 analysts that cover paypal it is hugely covered on the street 80% have buy recommendations this is the old wall street merry go around, we have to buy going up, we have to buy going down, it doesn't matter that much the only thing i would say about paypal, it is more reasonably priced at 40% off. it is now trading at 35 times multiple, so at least it is a more attractive on a p/e basis what is going to make the p/e expand this year i don't know i do agree, this venmo thing with amazon is interesting here is my question, what is the margin going to be on that what kind of deal do you think amazon is going to drive with venmo on that? yes, on the surface, okay, it

sounds like a lot of money is going to move around, but how much is going to actually stay in paypal's pocket after the deal is what i would like to know >> very good point maybe we can try to find out again, like you said, bob, trading around a 38 p/e even after the declines we will leave that one there let's now talk about some crocs because it has gone from a flash in the pan to a repeat winner piper sandler today is calming crocs its top idea for the second straight year and bumped up its price target again. they're saying crocs is going to be, quote, one of the most impressive consumer growth stories for several years to come the ceo of crocs spoke about closing consuming demand on "closing bell" yesterday listen >> we see a strong amount to the brand. we saw 67% growth for the full year is obviously a huge number. as we look forward into '22 we are really excited about both the growth prospects of crocs. we are guiding 220, plus the growth rate in '22, and obviously we made an acquisition of hey dude, and we're super

excited about that, too. >> i love seeing that banner, crocs ceo on hey dude acquisition. the shares are up 74% over the past year and 6% today we have to go quickly here bob pisani, what do you say? by the way, the market cap, $8 billion. it is bigger than gap. >> i'm going to surprise you and say, first off, no crocs in my closet with that understanding, i have a grudging respect for this company, i really do look, you can easily say it is a work-from-home thing, but their earnings doubled last year here is what is amazing, the p/e multiple went down because the earnings went up so much when did that happen last? the company had huge earnings, p/e actually goes down so, you know, on a valuation basis this company is looking terri overall. >> wow >> their earnings are expected to grow 25% in 2022. this scompany is impressive. >> forward p/e is under 22 what do you think, chris >> i have the ace in the hole, kelly, because i talked to my regional experts, which are my two daughters that are home

today. they both tell me, i don't get it, crocs are a huge day i say, they don't look cool. they say, dad, they're cool because they're not cool, and they're like record players. so that -- it is resonating with a certain group. it is strong i think it has staying power i just wouldn't stay at the party all that long because clearly trends change and this is clearly a trend >> they are great. >> i like it short term. >> great for toddlers, danielle, easy to get on and off the feet. good sandals >> yes, they are you know, i completely agree they've really taken off with the younger generation, which is exactly what they needed to increase their earnings. but you know what i really like it for right here? crocs for me is entering what i like to call the hot zone. this is the 21-bar time frame, free earnings in which stock which has been doing really well in earnings end up rallying into the earnings report. for me that's one of my favorite times to trade crocs over the course of the last eight quarters has traded on average about 15% higher

within that time frame right now it is holding support. it is breaking out to the upside i like it right here for a buy going into earnings, and i'm going to try to trade it up into about 150, 160 >> interesting now i want to get the other names you are watching in this window that you mentioned. guys, thank you for your time and ideas today. danielle shay, chris grisanti and our bob pisani still ahead, despite how hot the housing market is, this derivative play has fallen 10% since going public at the end of 2020, but one analyst says it is time to buy the dip. the stock and thmabendhe call, next

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welcome back we saw mortgage applications climb 1.5% last week despite higher rates we saw mortgage rates hitting their highest level since march of 2020, a sign home buyers are trying to beat more increases that could be down the pike. one company that could be well-positioned for the winter warm-up in home buying is

portrait at least according to my next guest, justin ages tell me, what does porch group do >> yes, thanks, kelly. i think the market misunderstands porch's business model and i think it is a great play on the housing market we see them making their revenue in three avenues they often software platforms to home service verticals like home inspectors, mortgage companies, moving companies, and those companies can pay a sas fee. the key and interesting part that porch does is if the home inspection company wants to receive the software platform for free, they can then provide access to that customer who requested the inspection and then porch will reach out to the customer with a moving concierge service and offer ago send to end service providers. let's say the customer is moving and they need home security or they need tv and internet or

they need an insurance policy on their new home, they'll present a list of options. once a customer chooses one of the options, porch will get paid for the referral so it is really win, win, win. the customer wins because they get ease of access on their move the end service provider wins, and this is really the key differentiator, because they get early access porch is offering them access to customers six weeks prior to when they would normally, and porch wins obviously because they're collecting a fee from providing that customer. >> it is fascinating i have to say i'm surprised it works because i was thinking about my own moves, and often an e-mail like that i would usually ignore or maybe i get word-of-mouth referral business or i google it i'm surprised it is as effective as you say it is >> yeah, you know, that was my initial reaction, but people like it. if you think about the number of people that are moving each year, you know, there's this large opportunity. if someone can say, hey, let me

make this moving process easy for you, then it is going to be worth the wait so it is not like a cold call, blind e-mail to the home inspector or that title and settlement is going to say, hey, would you like help with your move we have this opportunity for you. >> you say they deserve a higher multiple what is the multiple right now >> currently it is trading on an ebitda, 20, 22 sales, trading around 4.3, 4.5. but given this misunderstood business model, given our growth expectations, we think it should be trading and five times ebitda sales. >> are they profitable >> they are not profitable yet, but if you look at their, you know, production, you can see, listen, they're investing a lot in the business, so gross margin is low if they take their foot off kind of the investments they can pop up gross profit, they can pop up ebitda so that's not a real, you know, concern where they are kind of in their growth cycle just yet >> real quickly, are they an

acquisition target i can't imagine by who, but do you see that being where the story ends >> you know, haven't really thought that much about them being an acquisition target. they're more in the acquiring mode they acquired a big insurance company that's is expected to close in 2022 to give them access to the california market. that's more where the m & a focus is >> that's fascinating. thank you for joining us >> thank you a $21 price target for porch, an under-the-radar housing play coming up, congress unveiling wide-ranging new sanctions against russia after this morning's hours-long nato meeting. we have the details and the industries affected next

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♪ welcome back following this developing story. the u.s. taking new steps in theeth escalating tensions between russia and ukraine tessa tausche is here with the latest. >> reporter: kelly, after talks with nato for first time in three years, russia gave some signals it will remain at the table, which is a good sign as western allies are trying to stave off a further invasion of ukraine. today the top american diplomat

in those talks said russia's claim about its own worries about its security are perplexing given its size and nuclear capability and live military exercises conducted just today, but that it remains unclear whether russia will, in fact, back today. but it remains to be seen where russia will back down. >> russia will have to decide whether they are really about security n which case, they should engage, or whether this was all a pretext. and they may not even know yet >> in the meantime, the white house and senate democrats have crafted a package of crippling sanctions that president biden could trigger if he sees evidence of russian escalation the bill unveiled today would levy sex sank onsz president putin and his top deputies as well as major russian financial institutions it would also prohibit activity on the swift platform and sovereign debt tractions and

explore further action in the energy industry. the biden administration said the actions taken in 2014 from far from severe enough and now they are folk used on keeping history from repeating itself. >> a lot of people wonder if those sanctions with end up pushing russia further into china's orbit. who knows how it will play out time wises, how does it play out here russia had life exercises today. when will it come apparent what path they are following here. >>in 2014 russia's annex of crimea took place immediately following sochi winter olympics. and with the beijing olympics occurring in february, president putin could wait until overwards. but if he dozen choose to invade, the deadline to do so

would probably be before springtime when ground will thaw and make it muddy making it difficult. from the u.s. standpoint they hope invasion will not happen at all. >> kayla tausche in d.c. up next, remember those robots domino's started testing for delivery last year in the company behind them unveiled their latest model we will get a look at it and talk to the ceo of nuro next your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone.

you a on the nows vehicle start-up nuro unveiling its latest delivery bot. the third generation bot has twice the cargo room and expersonal air bags. and nuro will be already has big partnerships with the likes of domino's 7-eleven and kroger nuro's ceo joins us.

when are we going to start to see these in the real world? >> we are excited about the announcement today this is taking us a big step closer to where you and everyone across the country will start seeing niece vehicles. one of the challenges we have in the space is we want to make sure we are building something we can get out to the entire country. part of what we have to do there is build a vehicle that we can scale in order to fulfill that service. really, this latest vehicle is our answer to that >> would you say we are now kind of ready for primetime or is the fourth or fifth or beyond generation likely and why do we need a one size fits all bot i can see why each client might have slightly different needs. >> great question. in fact that's a key part of the design that went into the latest generation vehicle for us. we hope that we don't need a fourth or fifth. this is the world's first automotive grade zero occupant vehicle. we do intend to scale this vehicle to service all the

different applicationings that could be needed. one of the key differentiators for the vehicle is that the two compartments you showed earlier are flexible so we can configure them for specific partners to be ideal for their applications for instance we can have heated areas for hot domino's pizzas in addition to having cool areas for the drink that go along with the order. we can also configure the compartments separately for groceries. >> am i going to see it literally on the roads wi itself or is it meant to be a partner bot, like you can park a vehicle somewhere and this goes down the sidewalk or something like that? >> this vehicle will travel on roads. it is intended to replace the trips that you personally take to your local business. in the u.s. we take almost 100 billion such trips, vehicles driving to run aaron rand.

and the intent behind this vehicle is to replace as many as those trips as possible. i would love that i have a grocery ris to pick up this afternoon. i would love to give to it nuro. we talked to a truck, too simple, the other day, who just did an 80-mile run by itself in arizona. when are we expecting to actually see vehicles like yours on the roadways? >> our second-generation vehicle was the first vehicle to ever get an exemption from the department of transportation to operate as a fully autonomous vehicle on public roads. it has done that in california, arizona and texas, three states. this third vehicle we anticipate will comply with all federal regulations. we are excited about ramping this up and getting it into scale commercial use without having significant regulatory hurdle inside our future. >> and this is an electric

vehicle? >> yep, it's fully electric. one of the key parts of our culture and mission as a company is to really try to improve our communities. and part of that is very much the sustainability side. this will be a fully electric vehicle. we also announced today alongside this new vehicle our first sustain nlt report where we are committing to fully renewable energy for all of our operations going forwards. and that's u.n. just one of the steps that worry taking to try to do our part. >> it is impressive, a lot of the investment that you have to make to put into something we have literally never had on the roads before would you say that 2022 -- that's the year it is, radio it -- that this is the year we are likely to see it or are we talking more 2023, 242024, '25. >> we are announcing it. the preproduction vehicle is ramping up this is the year where we iron out all the kinks and launch our

production we created two facilities outside of las vegas to do final end of line production of these vehicles this year i wouldn't anticipate we will see too many of them on roads. certainly next year is when we really hope to be ramping this up and scaling out into communities. >> fantastic keep us posted dave. talk to you again soon dave ferguson is nuro's president and cofounder. that does it for "the exchange." tyler mathisen picks things up right now. ♪ kelly, thank you very much, and welcome, everybody, to "power lunch." i'm tyler mathisen here's what's ahead. inflation surging, prices rising at their fastest rate in 40 years. our market guest says bet on the consumer no matter what. and a bitcoin banking bet. silvergate shares falling along with crypto prices but is the volatility creating opportunities for investors