right now. u.s. state department urging americans to get out of ukraine as the threat level of the russian invasion rises some say it could come anytime details straight ahead. a busy weekend for activists and investors. the new moves with kohl's and unilever and peloton it is monday, january 24th, 2022 "squawk box" begins right now. good morning welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin we needed a week to get our heads back on straight the dow had a rough week

down 4.6%. the worst week since october of 202. out of the three indices, it was the winner s&p was down 5.7%, the nasdaq was off7.5%. that was the worst week since the beginning of the pandemic. march of 2020. that was pretty painful. however, there was more pain if you were in small caps russell 2000 was down 8% for the week to ate. if you are looking at the russell 2000, back to the all-time high on november 8th. it is almost in bear market territory. you may hope for a respite this morning, but not at this hour. futures were higher earlier. they turned negative dow futures down 70 points s&p off 13 nasdaq off 72. overseas in europe, they have seen more pain they have been trying to catch up with the losses we saw last

week the biggest decline in italy down 2.3%. severe numbers across the board for germany. treasury yields last week. the ten-year got above 1.9%. this morning, it is down to 1.728% it is elevated from the past the two-year is higher that yield is over 1%. joe mentioned this at the top. bitcoin is something to watch. tumbling below $35,000 over the weekend. it is now down about 25% from the start of the year. it lost more than 11% for the week to date guys, if you look at the level since the high in november down over 45% from then. significant moves on the percentage basis because there is so much in crypto and tricrypto assets. it is a market cap that evaporated from bitcoin. you are talking about $1 trillion of losses from the

highs. >> when you start to look at the numbers in terms of who got in when and all of those who got in at higher prices, it starts to look like a huge number. a massive percentage of those who now are literally living with losses. joe, we talked about, you know, getting in early $10,000. $8,000 earlier than that. it seems it has shifted. the question is are they hodlers are not? >> i did see someone say a lot of sellers were not big hodlers. i think it is more than 50% at this point 66 or 67was the high we're at 38 now. does it go the weak hand is the strong hand most people are saying stop.

we have seen this before it has had two or three or four other years with a 50% pull back >> the weird thing is this is happening with the fed moving against inflation. if you compare that to gold, i think gold has only been down something like 14% from where it was with some of the levels. >> gold hasn't benefitted from the five year or ten years of easy money the fed tightens and gets less an commodat accommodating. we will see. if you really were brave, i guess if it got to 30, you would buy it >> i don't know. >> the decision to hold it right here for me, would be buying it here you don't want to go to zero.

>> i want to know if you are an investor in micro strategy today. you have been leveraged. this is the most leveraged bitcoin play around. you lost your shirt. by the way, now people are taking their salaries in bitcoin and what about all of those folks? they will pay taxes on what they got paid originally. people taking massive losses in terms of how they did this >> el salvador they don't have much >> anymore >> yup >> we'll talk, i'm sure, a lot more on crypto let's talk about the u.s. state department who recommended all u.s. citizens in ukraine depart the country immediately citing the russian build up on the border and family members at the embassy to leave the senior state department telling reporters the security issues are unpredictable and

could deteriorate with little notice yesterday, secretary of state blinken, reiterating if a single russian force goes into ukraine in an aggressive way, it triggers a swift response from the u.s. and europe. the tensions are increasing and running high, joe. >> activism all over the place i don't know what that means in a weak market. busy for activists. i'll give you a quick round up here. actually, i'll go slowly group backed by starboard. that hedge fund. offering $9 billion to buy kohl's according to bloomberg offer is led by acacia research. sources tell cnbc also that sycamore partners is preparing to make a separate bid for

kohl's the advisers have been pushing for a board change or sale nelson's trian partners is making a stake for unilever after backlash from investors in the attempt to buy the gsk company. and blackwells capital is pushing the company to fire the ceo of peloton and push for a sale the share price plummeted. peloton could be an attractive firm for tech or fitness oriented company someone said and people are going back to the gyms that is obvious what is happening. someone was saying, i can't wait

to get to the point where i can start not going to the g gym anymore. >> instead of not riding your bike >> i can't wait. i could, but i can't wait to get to that point where i'm not going to the gym >> you were saying what are the activist approach means? all with the exception of the peloton mess of a story. the other two are traditional value plays. they have not been propped up at all by the pandemic play or the rest of the market kohl's business has been under question for a long time could that be a business you could turn around? what could you do with that business unilever, probably less so you could see. i don't know how much there is to take away from the sort of a moment here in terms of the companies. peloton is a true opportunistic

play by some folks who think the company should get sold or maybe not managed the way it should be. >> opportunistic or somebody please buy us bid. we're worth more than this to somebody that is what these pleas sound like. >> okay. it is not the only peloton news another negative for peloton in a television show he "b "billions" suffered a heart attack after riding the bike the guy says i'm not going out like mr. big that is a reference of "sex and the city" sequel the scene was written months before the "sex and the city" death and the last sentence was

added in post-production peloton did not add equipment. it is what'sis what happens. >> i'm just a proud papa of the program. i didn't know if that was in the cards at the time. of course, they dubbed in after. you can see when wags looks to the side that the voiceover that they did in adr. >> who is the bald guy that's the guy now >> he's awesome. >> what about the "homeland" guy? >> you have to watch the show. >> i have to >> you do. i'm not going to tell you. otherwise, we will be spoiling it for those who want. >> "ozark" is back >> i'm pumped. you know i don't watch football. last night was football night in

america. >> all weekend >> football was on the four greatest games in the history of football. >> i stayed up for the game. >> i watched last night until overtime at that point it didn't matter i'm scared of both of those teams. >> those teams are incredible and the rules stink about overtime >> it's been that way for a while. for the bengals. >> congratulations. >> thanks. kansas city. i don't want to face either one of them. although, the titans, what they did to burrow and getting to him. nine sacks look what happened to poor tom brady. he was hammered in the first half >> the last 50 seconds of that game i'm sure we'll talk about all that when we come back, a busy week ahead. we will get you ready for the

earnings of the week fed meeting and economic data. we will have it in the squawk. and lloyd blankfein will join us to talk markets. you are watching "squawk box" on cnbc ♪ ♪ ♪ digital transformation has failed to take off. because it hasn't removed the endless mundane work we all hate. ♪ ♪ ♪ automation can solve that by taking on repetitive tasks for us. unleash your potential. uipath. reboot work.

welcome back to "squawk

box. on the planner, a busy week for earnings ibm after the bell earnings. tomorrow, 3m, ge and microsoft. at&t and boeing and intel and tesla. then thursday, mcdonald's, southwest, visa and comcast, our parent company on friday, caterpillar and chevron. while that is happening, the fed is kicking off a two-day policy meeting with the scheduled conference on wednesday. then home prices due tomorrow and then the first look at gdp in the fourth quarter. that's just a lot happening here we have a lot and we'll talk about what is ahead this week. let's bring in anastasia at icapital i want to say good morning to both of you on this monday

morning. anastasia, i want to start with you. a ton of reports coming and the fed meeting. do you care about the reports or the fed here i have to go fed here. >> this is what everybody has been waiting for, andrew this is we should have had this meeting yesterday because that is what the markets have worried about. i think both of things are important. if you look at the markets valuations of stocks across the board with growthand tech and innovations have corrected massively. you had the significant rotation out of stocks and into value you have oversold conditions on a lot of the tech shares for example. what is missing for the bounce back has been more clarity on the fed. right now, the markets are fearful of the fed they think it could be more hawkish than anybody expect. all eyes on powell on wednesday. i think if all they do is a we

may have rate hikes four eimes the other big factor is microsoft and apple and what happened last week is the dow drop caused by a lot of bellwether earning disappointments. if the narrative shifts this week and you have 30% of the tech sector reporting and they reaffirm revenue -- by the way, revenue is projected to grow 12% in the next 12 months. that is rising investors will look at the fed and no more hawkish and stop tech earnings which are better than expected could be what the market to be to rein in footing. >> uma, would you agree? >> andrew, in the last couple months, in march of 2020, we saw

in terms of the valuation spread with growth and value. there is not much risk you are getting. much of the pay back you are getting for investing in the value versus growth spread the focus should be on companies that have the sustainable earnings growth, especially in the inflationary environment that we think is going to persist. that is where the focus should really be. >> what are you expecting from the fed? >> similar to what you just heard, right we're at the point where the market is looking at potentially four rate hikes this year. the question is really whether the fed overshoots this reaction to get inflation back under control. that is the risk i equate this to going into a c

sheraton hotel and you turn on the hot water and you will scald yourself that line is important >> i'm worried that the water is too cold, actually anastasia, help us with this we have been talking about bitcoin all morning. you look at it trading under 34,000 it has come up since we have been on the air this morning what is going on longer term what do you think it says? it is cois correlated to tech. the drop has been so much more i don't know what to say about that is that the double whammy of tech plus fed? >> i think it is fed plus inflation and tech correlation if you think why bitcoin surged in the fall of last year is inflation surging. the fed was sitting on its hands and not doing anything

real rates were dropping gold was not reacting as the hedge it used to a lot of people flocked to bitcoin because of it. now, if you look at the back drop today, inflation is surging and the fed is getting to be hyper active about it. they are doing something about it you don't have the same back drop on top of that, you have headlines about potential digital dollar as well i just think a lot of froth has come out of bitcoin. this is not to say we should avoid the crypto ecosystem last year was a big year for bitcoin. the next five years may be big for bitcoin. now it is not just a fed play, but what is going to drive increase adoption of bitcoin can we use it for statpayment? can we use it for more peer-to-peer transactions? the answer to that in the long

run is yes, andrew, there are 6,000 cryptocurrencies out there there are a lot of businesses that are doing block chain based top services if you look at the banking sector banks are using block chain for real-world instant payments. that may be an interesting way to access crypto by looking at the secular growing banks with the block chain exposure there is more to do besides bitcoin. >> we will leave the conversation there anastasia, uma, thank you very much >> thank you when we come back, is the irs targeting your side hustle we sort through the rumors and crackdown on the business transactions on payment apps like venmo and paypal. looking at paypal.

the price plunging down to $160.51. we'll be right back. i feel like they might have a better finance system than we do. workday. how do they make better decisions faster? workday. it's got to be something workday. i think i got something. work... hey, rob, you're on mute. hello! hey, rob, there he is. workday. the finance, hr and planning system for a changing world. the living room slash yoga shanti slash regional office slash... and this is the basement slash panic room. maybe what your family needs is a vacation home slash vacation home. find yours on the vrbo app.

time now for the executive edge we're taking a closer look at the new law thatrequires payment apps to report business transactions to the irs. robert frank has more. robert, you venmo somebody money and the irs is watching? >> reporter: they are, becky good morning this is a law that requires third party payment services like venmo or paypal to report transactions over $600 a year for corporate accounts if you sell a service or business or product and paid through a third party, including airbnb or e-bay, those will go to the irs and you get a 1099k form that was part of the american

rescue act passed last year and aimed at tax evasion it is psparking misconception this has been subject to tax, but it is unclear how many people were paying it. this does not apply to peer-to-peer transactions. gift to friends or family or reimburse a colleague for lunch, that is not reported to the irs. estimated 40 million americans do some kind of independent contract work or side hustle that number growing up to 1/3 during the pandemic. this law would raise about $8 billion over ten years not a lot, but on social media and message boards, taxpayers talking about switching back to cash and labeling business payments to peer-to-peer or using zelle, which is not subject to the rules because it

doesn't hold customer money. a lot of people really upset this was an administration that came in saying they will tax the wealthy and instead people are saying they are going after the little guy becky. >> you say it is only for a business account a corporate account. what does that mean if you text money to the basketball coach or school tutor >> reporter: on paypal, cashapp, venmo, they allow you to label if it is going to a friend or to a product. if you label it peer-to-peer, it is not part of the 1099. if you mark it service payment, it will go to the irs. it is voluntary at this point. they also have ai systems to see whether you are treating a peer-to-peer account as a business account and vice versa. >> that is crazy to talk about if you are talking about getting

around the rules, that's not great. you are right. they threaten to crackdown on the wealthy. this is a way to crackdown on people who are not the wealthiest >> reporter: yeah. $8 billion it is interesting to see how much they raise from this. whether they will go after people that either mislabel or don't report, there is not a lot of revenue the bottom 90% pay less than 30% of the nation's federal income tax. unclear how much money they will raise from this. it is caused a huge backlash all of the message boards. people are upset hair stylists and personal trainers who get the payments through the systems. >> the systems made it easier than carrying cash again, the idea that zelle doesn't count. i don't understand that. zelle is a bank,too. >> reporter: it is a system that

is owned by ten of the largest banks. they don't hold customer accounts they act as a messages service between banks. they are exempt. i asked paypal if you have seen a decline in usership. i suspect i hear this myself can you pay me via zelle instead. >> robert, thank you great to see you >> thank you coming up, we'll talk about an etf specifically designed, this is mean, to short cathie wood's investment strangetegy the money has been pouring in. and later, helima croft will join us to breakdown the

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good morning welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc look at the futures. dow off 95 points. the s&p 500 off 16 points. bitcoin still under 35,000 trading under 34,000 right now fr a growing up of blank checks are abandoning their bids. seven spacs are cancelling plans. five withdrawing in december once red hot arena now facing waning enthusiasm in months after the poor performance and regulatory scrutiny and the post spac index is down 24% this year 41% over the last six months

joe, what is hot is not. what goes up, goes down. >> that may be one of the things that gets written about years from now maybe. a lot of these things. maybe this, too. cathie wood. etf. there is an etf aimed at shorting ark it is seeing the etf with a boom in popularity. the tuttle capital short innovation ticker sark has accumulated $234 million in assets according to bloomberg. $200 million of that from investor inflows with the rest of the appreciation of the assets it holds or it shorts the fund debuted in november which is up 57% since then while the ark innovation etf itself is down 42% you can see it right there

interesting. >> ouch. coming up, bitcoin prices plunging over the weekend. this morning, it is below $34,000. we'll take a closer look after the break. later, muhammad el-erian will join us a reminder you can watch us anytime on the bcpp ♪ ♪

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crypto markets took a hit last week. bitcoin lost half its value since last year. joining us to discuss is the founder and president of the chamber of digital commerce. perry, if it was some other asset like a stock or tech stock or a bio-tech stock, we are used to things that may get overvalued and pull back and maybe garner more interest at those levels and go back up. we have seen that many times these swings are so large. we forget how much that bitcoin appreciated in the last 24 months or so even at 33,000, it is staggering

how much it is up. always see front and center how much it is down. you couldn't use this, certainly, as a utilitarian way as a krcurrency it still hasn't achieved that. >> good morning, joe bitcoin has been called and compared to a digital gold new form of gold by the chairman of the fed jerome powell volatility is not a bad thing. it is normal to see 50% volatility in the crypto markets in any given month the markets are behaving as expected despite the price being down, the fundamentals of the network are as strong as ever. the growth rate is increasing at a rate that is more exponential than the internet grew in the late 1990s and early 2000s

the bitcoin hash rate is at the all-time high. $32 million of bitcoin generated every day. very strong economic incentives for more notes to join on the net network. the power is at an all-time high the powers are still strong. >> the overhang is mentioned what regulators will do is a positive in the end or is this justified in the end you have emerging competition all over the place in terms of -- alternatives of bitcoin which may use less energy which is something we hear quite a bit about. >> the regulatory uncertainty continues to be one of the biggest challenges for the adoption of this technology. despite that according to a survey from fidelity digital assets.

7 of 10 investors around the world plan to buy or invest in digital assets within the next five years i think this is absolutely inevitable is it a little bit of a rocky road yes. in terms of the regulatory perspective, the fate of cryptocurrency has been decided. they are here to stay. they are not going anywhere. right now, we're negotiating the regulatory guardrails look like. they have justified concerns there are things we need structure around and all of that is put into place today. is that having an impact on the markets? i think so i think in the long run, there is really very little governments can do to change the fundamentals of what is happening. that is that bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are going to have a key role in the global financial system >> when you mentioned 20 a couple of years ago and fell

back to 2,000 or 3,000 we had the same type of sentiment now, i think now it is going to zero. i'm seeing that a lot. people on twitter. it is going to zero. it is a ponzi scheme now we're talking about this at 33,000 to put it in perspective, i guess my question is can it make the round trip back to 8 >> i think one of the mistakes that a lot of people make who are getting into crypto is they are myopically focused on the price and ignoring the value we all know the price. when you are making an investment decision, you need to know how to value an asset there is a number of models that professional crypto investors are using today. today, they are all between $50,000 and $100,000 bitcoin what they are telling us is bitcoin is under valued today.

i encourages people not just to focus on the price, but focus on the fundamentals of the network and figure out how to value something before you invest. there are tools available on the market today >> stock to flow is one that a couple of years ago was indicating after the having from a view years ago that it could go higher. do you have a number for what stock to flow if you compare to gold or silver or something like that >> stock to flow today has bitcoin priced at $100,000 that particular model is 95% c correlated if you use stock to flow in gold, it is over 99% correlated. >> and a barrel of oil, i think, and decent suit. that is in the eye of the beholder, i think. perianne, thank you. stock to flow. $100,000 if you believe that, then it is a screaming buy, obviously

or if you believe everybody who is tweeting today, it's worth zero per perianne boring, thank you. the state department urging the u.s. citizens to depart ukraine immediately. we will talk about that and the missile attack news from the uae overnight. this morning, wti is down 11 cents. if you have been watching this, crude has been up for five weeks in a row up 13.2% for the month to date we'll discuss more in just a moment but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

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new overnight. the united arab emirates intercepted two ballistic missiles over the capital. it was fired over the houthi the uae released a video showing the destruction of the briallisc missile launch all of this drove crude oil prices up last week. it is not the only thing pushing crude. talking about the geopolitical factors with us is helima croft. she is the manager director and global head of managing strategies and a cnbc contributor. helima, there is so much to talk about today. you are somebody in the thick of this and understanding all of it you are watching more of what happened with uae or more with russia and ukraine >> i'm watching both stories

obviously the russia and ukraine story is one that could move prices significantly higher. if we are talking about 1$100 ol situa situation, it could be an invasion of ukraine. russia would weaponize them. it's top of mind for world market participants right now. >> we've run up on all of these concerns, but do you think all of the issues are priced in at this point, or do you really think we could push to triple digits for wti >> i mean, becky, if we have those russian troops cross the border and go into ukraine and attempt to take kyiv, that's a significant catalyst for higher oil prices we would look to have significant sanctions and probes on moscow.

there are real concerns they might do what they did in 2009 i think this is not done yet, and, again, we're really having to watch what russia does with those troops on the border. >> we have been signaling that this would be a united front coming from both the united states and europe, but maybe that's not quite as clear. europe is the one that's going to feel the pinch a lot more quickly if vladimir putin decides to do just that, cut off some of their supplies. >> i mean, europe is so dependent on russia gas. we've seen how the u.s. and uk is talking about it. the u.s. came out with an intelligence report that russia plans to absolve the leader in kyiv the german naval chief expressing some sympathy for vladimir putin there seems to be some division,

but, again, they have all said they will impose sanctions if those troops cross the border. >> but obviously that's something putin himself is picking up on and seeking to take advantage of. >> i mean, absolutely. do i think that putin potentially uses his oil and gas exports as a potential human shield to sort of break the will of the west? i think that is a really viable option i think the russians would look to play the energy card, and we are talking about such a large hydrocarbon producer, that i do think this is going to be a major market-moving story if we do get a serious confrontation in ukraine. >> this is kind of tangential to wti, but if you look at what rush's doing and partnering up with china to some extent, that complicates things even further. there was a conversation between putin and president xi in december and now putin is expecting to go to the olympics

in another week, week and a half, beginning of february. >> there are some questions about whether russia woeld hold back while the olympics are going on in beijing. the military is saying russia does not have an infinite timeline the move of tanks across the border is probably going to happen when the ground is still cold could they push it out a couple of weeks due to the olympics possibly it's a potentially interesting question, but, again, the real question is russia looking to regain ukraine >> we're looking at the futures for wti and they're above $85 a barrel if you look down the road, what does it show at that point does it anticipate this is a flare-up that comes and rolls back down, or are you looking at

a situation where it continues to climb all year? >> when the market is expected to be tight this year, you know, irrespective of the russia/ukraine story, there are concerns about opec's capacity, oil production, will it roll quickly enough to meet demand as we have this global reopening story, and so we're already talking about brent prices, you know, in the 80s this year before we had this russia/ukraine buildup in terms of the troops and the potential invasion, and so the russia story's a path to 100, but, you know, we are expecting brent prices to be in the 80s irrespective of what happens on the border of ukraine. >> all of this kind of gets you back to the stage where you mentioned it just now, what the u.s. producers will do as a result, but the u.s. producers don't seem very likely, at least the big ones, to go back in any huge way and change and alter their plans. they've got their own issues,

and they would like to see cash returned to them rather than cash poured back into the ground. >> absolutely, becky yes, we're expect u.s. production to grow this year, but the sort of quest for unlimited growth, that seems to be, you know, done shareholders are demanding capital discipline, and so the question always becomes if you have a supply situation, you have to make that call to saudi arabia, and we really are looking at a potential ask of the white house, of the saudis and other gulf producers to put more barrels on the market so i expect heightened pressure on the kingdom as we go into the opec meetings. certainly if there is an invasion, the u.s. will be asking saudi arabia to fill the gape. >> helima, thank you i don't think we can hear fro fr. you often enough right now this is a pretty key time and an important inflection point, so if you'll do us the favor, we'll

have you on speed dial maybe as we get through the next few weeks. >> thank you so much, becky. coming up in just a little bit, former ceo lloyd blankfein will be on meanwhile big losses for stalks last week. "squawk box" coming back right after this esg is responsible investing. who's responsible for building esg into your investments?

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stocks coming off wall street's worst week since just after the pandemic began, and the futures this morning are lower despite all of the losses we saw last week market historian and professor will be joining us what investors should be watching at this time. should the united states follow england's lead and ease up on covid-related restrictions and stocks of electric vehicle makers hitting reverse the sector down double digits last week after a big run-up are these stock as buy right now, or is there more downside on the horizon we've got a bull/bear debate

ready to go as the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now. ♪ good morning and welcome back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc. i'm andrew sorkin along with becky quick and joe kernen take a look at where futures are this morning we are in the red once again, dow off about 18 points. nasdaq off about 22 points, and the s&p 500 off about 4 points meantime bitcoin trading under 35,000 -- 34,000 here's what's making headlines this hour, and we've got a big week ahead a lot of numbers that investors are going to be chewing on we have the fed policy maker meeting tomorrow and wednesday it's expected the fed will give more signals on how and when it

will tighten monetary policy goldman sachs says it expects four rate hikes and more if inflation remains high that's going to be the singfle most important thing people will be paying attention to. meanwhile the irs says people could experience delays in processing and receiving refunds due to lack of staffing and backlog. cryptocurrencies continue to be under pressure. bitcoin hitting its lowest since july of last year. it's now been cut in half from its all-time highs with 33,641 and e ther down to 2,234 yesterday it was recommended all u.s. citizens depart the country immediately citing the military buildup on the border

it ordered family members to leave. a state department official told "reuters" that security issues are unpredictable and could deteriorate with little notice yesterday secretary of state antony blinken reiterated his warning that if additional russian force goes into ukraine in an aggressive way, that would trigger a swift, severe, and united response from the u.s. and from europe. >> dom chu -- i'm sorry. >> why. >> we'll get to your movers. hold on for a second torrey pines -- you know what's after torrey pines, right? it's the california swing, so you go up the coast. >> yep. >> up to pebble beach. already starting to check the weather. that's number one. and, b, someone said that we're going to be against -- who's

your nfl team? >> i am a northern california native. >> oh, no. >> i was born and raised in the bay area, so, yes, i have been for years a 49ers fan. >> have you considered the possibility -- >> -- that uld coyote be like 1988 all over again? >> that's where i was going. have you heard the expression that revenge is best served cold i don't know what you would characterize this as 1988 -- that's so cold that it's never going to move again. that's like freezing it could happen, could it not. >> dish best served cold, dig two graves, whatever metaphor. i would say it was the best weekend, joe, of football i've seen in i can't remember all long. >> any one of the games. any one of the games you know, i thought the buccaneers game was boring in the first half. >> because it was.

it was terrible in the first half it was terrible through three-quarters it got exciting in maybe the last 17 minutes of that game. >> should we just keep going until we hear something, or you'd better do your movers. >> i would just say this for the niners go into green bay with those conditions and have robbie kick a field goal - you're right i'm probably going to get accused. let's move on. we've got some movers going on today. we'll start with moves in coals up 27% right now there's a possibility there could be a bidding war that ensues for kohl's as investors are looking to take this company private. we know that sycamore apparently reportedly according to reuters and other sources they could be preparing some kind of a bid for kohl's on top of the already

possibly bid that an investor group could be trying to put together for this particular company. kohl's is up 27%, so no real kind of issue here, knowing -- understanding why the shares are up the way they are, although, over the last year you can see it was volatile. but it's up 32%. the other is peloton, black well's capital they think they should fire the ceo over peloton, look into maybe a possible strategic sale to a buyer, sopel on the shares over the last year down about 83%. it's catching a bit of the trade market right now another one to watch. and if you take a look at unilever, a name that many know, peltz is looking at a

share shareholder value. there's another one i want to throw up, joe, because it's been a very focused on stock for many people out there and many folks that kind of frequent our website and that's netflix because what we are seeing right now is another decline of about 2% right now, bringing the year-to-date total down 31%. this idea that maybe you don't see the pandemic tailwinds playing out as much over the course of the next coming years, i guess, netflix shares are down in the 2% of trade right now a lot of stuff is going on right now. the activists are very active. netflix is one they're focusing on. >> "ozark" is back.

>> yes. >> in closing i have my doubts we'll see a rematch. who would you rather if you were the bengals, the bills or the chiefs? i don't want either one of those any where near the bengals, but there was so much scoring maybe they won't be rushing joe burrow like they did. did you see what the rams did to brady? it was kind of bloody. i'm worried about the defense. i don't know whatto think. >> this is tough because there's something maybe storyline and poetic about seeing a replay of the super bowl a few years back between the chiefs and the niners where the niners have the lead in the fourth quarter and they end up losing that game there's the cincinnati story line, the fact that sean mcvay with the rams has never beat the 49ers in his career.

aaron rodgers never beat the 49ers in his career. here's what i would say. no matter what, you have a situation where it's going to be about whether offenses or defenses will rule they always say, joe, defense wins championships, right? >> yeah. see, they're going to blame me, but -- i didn't really have to twist your arm, you know what i mean >> no. >> i didn't have to twist your arm to get you going. >> i was fired up. i'm still on adrenaline. >> it's life it's what we did for the last 48 hours. i'm sorry. sue me thank you, dom. when we come back, the market's facing a wall of worry. you can say that again tension building between ukraine and russia rising and lowing growth jeremy segal will be on next and

tell you where you should be putting your money to work. before we head to break, let's take a look at the markets. dow futures are down about 90 points s&p which was down 5.7% almost last week is down another 16 points and the nasdaq which was down by 7.5% last week is down by 78 points this morning. "squawk box" will be right back.

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the oil field services company reported adjusted net, two cents above estimates. oil prices, as you probability a probably are aware, have been rising. >> that's right. in the meantime what's been going down is the stockmarket. we've seen what happened over the last week with the nasdaq pushed into correction territory and the dow and s&p down three weeks in a row joining us now is noted bull, jeremy siegel. it's interesting the nasdaq now down into the correction territory and people

wondering if this is the end of the pain or if there's more to come what do you think? >> i think there's more to come. i certainly wouldn't be surprised if nasdaq goes into negative territory, and the s&p, it is top-heavy with tech, probably going into correction territory. as you know, i've been saying that inflation is much worse than the fed admits even though they i're way behind the curve they need to catch up. the market has not been completely digested yet. i think there's more pain to come, and i think clearly -- on wednesday i think we're going to hear a much more hawkish jay

powell than we have in the past. >> so if you're talking about getting nasdaq down into bear territory, you're talking about the losses more than doubling from what we saw last week that's some pretty significant declines how quickly do you think that will happen? >> i think it's very hard to predict. you know, to say that the nasdaq is in correction territory, has to go down maybe another -- maybe 10%, maybe 15% i think that that would not be unusual. there's two -- there's two problems with the tech sector. one is the interest rate, which i think is going to surprise some on the upside and then their earnings have to hold up. what we saw with netflix, if there's any disappointment, we see the reaction there so they've got to meet

optimistic earnings projections, and they've got to have not too h hawkish a fair on the latter, i think they'll be disappointed. it would be really bad for them if we see any facilitiering of those earnings i'm not saying that's going to happen yet but they have two challenges that they have to meet that the other stocks don't i think the rotation is going to continue finally we're going to see those value stocks outperform the growth stocks. it's been a violent change over the last 20 days, but i don't think it's over. it still isn't the change we saw from october of 2020 all the way to march of 2021 after we saw a bigger rotation. then it went all the way back. now we're starting again i think this is going to be one that's going to be deeper than what we saw before. >> with your expectations for declines like that, that really

puts investors in a bit of a conundrum. the reason feds will have to raise rates is because inflation is so high when you're talking inflation, it's on an annualized basis. your money becomes less valuable if you have a dollar, it is worth 93 cents a year later. you can't stick it in a bank account and think it's safe. you can't stick it under your mattress and think it's safe you'll be losing money there too. where should you put your money? >> i would say i would wait if i had cash to deploy and i would underweight those technology stocks you know, i'm not talking necessarily the apples and those that are -- i'm talking about all the others rotations -- i mean jim cramer has been talking about this for a long time. i have been talking about it

i would prune those that are on the more speck la active side, push toward those that are more on the value side that are earning, that are giving dividends. you're right you're going to lose in cash, but you're going to probably lose more in bonds i think the bond rate is going above 2% that's going to be even worse. in the process where discount rates rise in an inflationary process, there's very little that you can do in that short run. in the longer run, i still think the s&p h, the arift cats to be up. >> when you say you don't like a lot of the technology stocks, you're talking the ones that don't have earnings, just the idea they're going to be growth companies. those are the ones you think are going to get valuations swiped out from under them. >> they already have to a great

extent, but unfortunately we all know, when a bear market comes, it doesn't spare the good stocks or the bad stocks. they all go down then when the reaction and the pessimism is over, those athat are the good stocks bounce back. those that are not, do not bounce back. there's really no way to safely weather the storm. i know people may be going in cash and they may be smiling and think the market's gone down and i avoided it but the big problem is they don't get back in and they miss therise, and when they finally say, you know what i'm getting back in. it's higher than when they get out. that's the big problem in terms of trying to play. i think there's going to be a reaction, i'm going to get the cash and wait this out are you really going to be strong enough to get back in

because it's going to be -- people are going to be so pessimistic when that bottom is reached. >> let's talk about that if now is not the time to buy -- that's what you just said, you don't think people should be pulling their money just yet because you think the declines will come, when are the signals? when do you say, okay, it's time to jump back in? >> we saw it get to 30 i wouldn't be surprised if it gets to 40 or 50 that's fear index. even at 30, if you hold long term, you're going to make money, but you're still going to have to go through some problems through index is not quite high enough we don't just get the headlines, oh, my goodness, this market is, you know, no good, stocks are no good, all that we haven't seen enough throwing in the towel, so to speak, as you often see at the end

jim cramer had a check list he's talked about many times. he's checked more boxes. he hasn't checked all the boxes that you see yet when you normally see the bottom of a market i think -- particularly because i think the fed has got to be more aggressive, that that's the -- that's going to be the trigger that's going to finally cause the market to bottom, probably in the end of the first or second quarter of this year. >> let's cross our fingers for that professor, thank you great to see you today. >> thanks. >> andrew? coming up, when we return, electric vehicle stocks hitting reverse. names like tesla and lucid will there be more downside? that's coming up right after the break. plus, dr. scott gottlieb tweeting the u.s. should lean in and relax provisions as quickly

as we implemented them "squawk" coming right back

box. this morning kathy woods is seeing a boom in popularity.

the ticker sark has now generated $234 million in assets, reporting to bloomberg about $200 million of that came from investors and the rest from appreciation of the assets it holds. the fund which debuted in november up 57% since then wood's arc innovation up, down 42%. for every winner there's a loser or for every loser there's a winner, joe. >> $234 million, all right, we'll watch it it's money. >> it's the way to play it if that's the way you want to play the game. >> right. still to come, dr. scott gottlieb to talk all the covid headlines. and don't miss our interview with former goldman sachs ceo

lloyd blankfein. we'll talk with him. stay tuned "squawk box" will be right back. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria.

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welcome back to "squawk box.

this morning the federal reserve meeting this weekend, expected to signal its setup, its plans to battle inflation, but is the u.s. going it alone? that's the question, and economics reporter steve liesman is joining us now. good morning to you, steve. >> hey, good morning, andrew the fed is expected to affirm its market expectations for master rate hikes and even balance sheet reductions this year, jay powell's counterparts in europe and japan are happy to o hold the door open there was a signal there's no intent to join the tightening party any time soon. >> we're not moving at the same speed, and we are unlikely to experience the same kind of inflation increases that the u.s. market does. >> carl weinberg of high

frequency economics tells me the key word is divergence central bank moves are not going to be synchronized e we have divergence amongst economies. japan in blue, not expected to tighten any time soon. mexico, tightened to december. the bank of england looks like it will offer a hike in february meanwhile china cut recently and india is expected to cut jpmorgan's rep says they plan to follow it six to nine months and japan will have to follow labor tightening markets eventually. meanwhile most other developed nations will lead the way. tomorrow the fed service is

going to look at fed rate hikes and how much the fed will reduce its balance sheet over the coming years, andrew. >> i'm curious i know, steve, you're going to say this is off topic, and i think this is related, and this morning there are a lot of people waking up and looking aet the markets. reportedly some are looking at crypto to me there's an interesting connection obviously with where we are globally because crypto is really a global currency relative to what you think the central banks are going to be doing about inflation. what do you think is happening >> you know, first of all, i'd like to point out joe goes off topic with dom about the nfl which i was fully prepared to talk about and then you go off with crypto. i want to point to the lack of symmetry there what i think is happening with crypto, it's one of those higher risk assets, and all higher risk

assets, if you think about the fed providing liquidity in the is ta'uaire, it's the tributaries on the side that lose their water first you have the fed acting to secure the rates and inflation and the currency, and so the -- i guess the rationale for crypto becomes less obvious to many people if the fed does indeed take action to stop -- >> steve, i'm connecting this back to your reporting, which is that the u.s. may be doing that, but it's not being done in sync globally, which is what you just discussed, and that's the part that's so hard for me to sort of square. >> well, it's not that hard to square, andrew, and i'll explain why. the key is it's not just different policies it's different underlying economics. take for example europe. the u.s. has underlined core inflation, x energy and food of

almost 6%. in europe, it's 2.6%, and carl weinberg tells me he thinks that's going to come down to 2.2% europe does not have the underlying inflation problem it's a headline problem the way we do, too, but it does not have the understand lying core inflation. that's exactly voila guard said. she does not see the wage pressure in europe the way we see it in the u.s., and that's really the key it's really right now -- inflation is a global issue, but in the u.s., it's much more acute, it would appear. >> do you really think in the end that this fed wants to dampen -- i mean the question for me is how much do you want to dampen demand, and how much of this supply side of it do you think can actually get fixed over the next six months and sort of make those things mesh in the right way >> yeah. that is exactly tied to the fed.

it's the tight rope everyone has to walk. they have to walk this tight rope of dealing with inflation without creating either a recession or dramatically dampening demand it's really important, andrew, the huge change that took place, call it in november when powell came forward and said, look, a virus wave is not an aggregate demand problem it's essentially an inflation problem. you read t"the wall street journal" story this morning that one in ten food processing plants is calling out sick, some absence of goods on u.s. shelves in part because workers aren't there. that drives up prices at least at the onset here. really what they're trying to do is deal with the virus wave as an inflation problem and less so now as an aggregate demand problem. >> steve, see, we took it in all sorts of directions, but i think we got back to the -- you know, we made a full circle.

>> we didn't talk about the great games this weekend. >> and we should talk about the great games. which we're going to do, i think, in just a little bit. have a great day talk to you in a little bit. becks? >> thanks, andrew. when we come back, dr. scott gottlieb will talk about the latest covid headlines. and later former goldman sachs ceo lloyd blankfein is going to talk with us about the markets. he could give his thoughts and opinions on this. boeing is investing another $450 million in its air taxi joint venture with co-founder larry page, developing small pilot trips. it joins an expanding crowd of electric air vehicles that have attracted billions of dollars in new funding over the next year rival plane makers and airbus

are developing their own electric air taxis alongside overs who have started up with interests in airlines. boeing shares this morning down by about 1%,.3 reflecting the market we'll be right back. wow, we're crunching tons of polygons here! what's going on? where's regina? hi, i'm ladonna. i invest in invesco qqq, a fund that gives me access to the nasdaq-100 innovations, like real time cgi. okay... yeah... oh. don't worry i got it! become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq you could spend half an hour preparing for the half hour status meeting. orrr... you could cancel the meeting and share updates in slack instead. it's where your whole team is in one place so everyone can stay up to date. slack. where the future works.

welcome back to "squawk box. this morning face mask rules and covid passes, they're ending in england, boris johnson saying the government would drop its advice that people work from home should the u.s. follow suit? joining us now, dr. scott gottlieb scott, given where we are throughout the country, are you ready to drop masks right now? >> well, look. i think certainly on the east coast where you see cases declining dramatically, we need to be willing and lean in and do that very soon i think as conditions improve, we have to be willing to relax some of the measures with the same speed we put them in place, and lean in a little bit, do it before things fully improve but while things are looking like they're on a full trajectory i think the acrimony we have in the united states is because we

haven't defined a clear goalpost the two issues are masks on children in schools and mandates we know the masks that are cloth are not the best in a setting of an epidemic right nowing you don't want to withdraw the use of masks as schools have come to rely on them, but as we do start to improve, that should be the first thing we look at because we know they're disruptive to children we know they've had an accumulative impact on children and relationships in schools you saw connecticut announce they're going to lift the vaccine mandate. cases are declining in connecticut. and so it doesn't make as much sense to have that mandate in place anymore. you have to have a flexible doctrine here. i think the only way to get compliance from people and get

acomekocome dags is if we have h ability to withdraw these things in the same manner in which we put them in. the final thing is what's going to confound the ability to d that, as soon as you with draw these things, people think it's going to cause a flare in the virus, and that's not necessarily true there's a belief that the reason we had a delta wave last summer is because cdc lifted the national mask recommendation two things were completely unrelated. we lifted the mask man did when b.1.1.7. had fully subsided. we had a quiet july and then delta emerged. >> scott, my kids have been in school since practically the beginning. they did a very good job with it and they require medical masks throughout in new york city we're down now happily, by the way, back into the 5%, 6% range, broadly

speaking what number would you bring it down to, or do you think it needs to come down to before you lift the mask mandate at a school that's actually doing it right? >> yeah, look. it's a great question, and there isn't a clear number that's been prescribed by the public health committee, by health experts before we said when cases reach ten cases per 100,000 cases per day, you can effectively lift all forms of medication. that's what we did last summer i think in the setting of omicron when you have a less virulent strain, a lot of immunity, a lot of people vaccinated or infected, you can probably do it when it'sed a higher levels. i also think that you want to lift these kinds of can communication steps where they're most when you look at mitigation you've imposed on adults, we should look at what we should do in the schools so

when prevalence in the community declines and we're going to take some risk, do it in places that are very disruptive to places that are really important, and there's not more important than educating children. >> scott, i think the question that policy makers are trying to figure out is, look, when it was 3% in new york, 2% in new york, those were considered high numbers and people were saying to wear masks then given that we've decided that fabric masks especially when it comes to omicron don't do the job the way i think people were told, maybe they did the job against delta and alpha before that we could have a debate about that but the question is sort of what that number needs to look like >> look, your point's well taken. what i'm saying is wehave to reset our expectation as little bit. before, you're right, if it was 15 cases per 100,000 people a day or 5% positivity, that felt

very high. that was in a world where we didn't have much immunity and the dominant strain was delta. where we have 50% of the public who have had omicron, probably 30%, 40% will have had delta and the prior variants, 65% of the adult fully vaccinated, 85% at least one dose, the expectations will get reset a little bit, and we are going to tolerate a higher level of overall spread now, we have seen the schools have not become focal points of major outbreaks. there are exceptions there are clearly examples where there have been large outbreaks in the school, but it does appear more of the infections that get imported into the schools is where kids get infected from home, not necessarily widespread at schools. i think the masks have contributed to that and so have other measures like keeps kids in defined social pods the other measures probably won't get lifted, but the masks are disruptive, and that's one

of the first things we should look at. when i saline in, look at what's the least divisive while trying to reduce spread in society. >> scott, as you know, we've spoken both on air for many, many -- for years off air as well as on air i've asked you for personal advice you've been particularly cautious with how you've acted and behaved. has it changed are you doing a lot more indoors? no masking >> look. i have some travel planned for early february, out-of-town travel and meetings where i'll be in congregate meetings, i suspect, unmasked. i expect in february things are going to loosen up, especially on the east coast, and people are going to be gathering again. i haven't yet. prevalence is still moderately high new york city and outlying suburbs, cases are way down. i think we're a week or two away

where i'll feel comfortable going out into congregate settings again like i was two or three months ago in february when i have business travel, i expect things to be resuming that scott gottlieb, always great to talk to you. it's always an education. >> thanks a lot. >> appreciate it joe? coming up, we'll going to talk e-sales find out if investors are losing interest in the sector or is this the time to buy you can say that about just about anything. at the top of the hour, former goldman sachs ceo lloyd blankfein is going to talk with us about the impact on stocks. "squawk box" will be right back. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed.

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nasdaq fell more than 6% last week led by growth stocks a long for the ride, ev makers joining us, whether it's what you'd expect from high flyers. gordon johnson is a founder of g g.e.l. research. i think wajed likes tesla. if you've seen gordon on before, i don't think he agrees. wajed, is it specific to e.v. or is it air coming out of the stockmarket and some of the high

five >> i think you're seeing a little air coming out from the build back better as well as concerns of inflation. but in terms of the fundamentals for evs, they continue to accelerate here where we actually had 33% growth, you're actually seeing more like 50% growth for last year tesla is about 25% of that market and so we continue to like the ev sector, and tesla is the leader there i think that when you really get down and understand the story, there's more to be positive about than negative. >> is 900 an important level for you, wajed . >> no. i think that's -- that's rirl vant here.

the company continues to go from if riff risky low-priced volume to high-priced and now it's a repeat with the giga factories. there's also the ability for tesla to follow the path of an amazon or apple. you know, a lot of analysts said that, you know amazon was going to be put out of business by barnes & noble or am was a one-trick pony with the ipod, and both of those have proved to be much more than that and i think tesla looked through the lens of an energy story has a lot of potential here too. >> gordon, b 10 in t"the wall street journal". lithium carbonate prices in china have quintupled, and china wants to be the leader in ev, nickel and all kinds of stuff. do you think this factors in -- you think everything is bearish for tesla, but is this on your radar screen, too, gordon?

>> i want to take a step back and talk about evs in general. they're $12,000 to $15,000 more terms of combustion engine they take less to fuel when you're talking charging stations versus gas stations. unless someone is an enthusiast and someone is willing to pay $12,000 or $15,000 ore, ev car are it locally they're 5% less than the global market share. in the u.s. they're less than 3% of all cars sold why is that? well n the u.s., there aren't significant incentives in places like norway, we talk about the world and other eu countries, they literally have socialist policies making it two times more expensive to by a car if it's an iec car versus ev car. excluding additional incentives or penalties for countries to buy iec cars versus ev cars,

they're going to remain a niche. tesla, let's talk about it they're on a 400 volt technology versus everybody else at 800 volt, meaning they charge quicker, they're more efficient. tesla cars come out of the car wash and you have enough to watch a movie. 27 out of 29 cars, it was last in quality and j.d. power ranked them 30 out of 33 in lasting quality. there's no reason to buy a tesla now when you have the kia ed 6, the mercedes eqs the point is where competition comes in like we saw where tesla's market share was 33% and eu, they went from 33% to 12%, they're outselling them in china. when competition comes in, tesla

loses. when you talk about the company, they say it's more than an auto company. 95% of thash revenue comes from selling cars the other 5% comes from a profitless energy division when jed says they're the leader, they're not the leader so not only do i think there's risk in ev stocks because the ev space is going to remain a niche, i think there's risk in tesla. >> jed, you point out you think the demand for ev is totally outstripping in terms of internal combustion. is gordon right? if you want go 500 miles and most people buy ev because you're not going to take it on a long trip, if you want to go 500 miles, how off don you have to charge your ev >> one and a half times. gordon is wrong on just about every one of those points except for the 800 volts. we think of voltage as

efficiency, and you are seeing a move to higher voltage, but we often criticize what we don't understand, and the reason that t all the car companies are moving to ev is if there's less embodied energy and energy that's used and you're selling it at the same price, your economics are going to be better, so to like iec versus ev, it's to say i line a 3% grower versus a 50% grower, it makes no sense further there's a cherry picking that's mentioned nyse has them at the highest in terms of vw, literally they have said tesla's takt time is one third of vw.

it takes tesla one third the amount of time to produce a vehicle than vw, and it's showing up in the margins, which are far higher than the traditional companies. so i get the reason to be -- some people want to be negative just to be negative, but i don't see that in this sector. >> jed, here's the thing, and i don't want to speak for gordon here, and i'm a huge fan of tesla, i don't think the metrics you're talking about are the issue. i think the question is simply one of valuation, which is to say is tesla at $910 given the market cap, is that an appropriate valuation really active to the other automakers that's the one and only question >> can i jump in to address some of those points? >> can i answer this one point asked of me about valuation? >> yes, please. >> i come back to rate of growth growth is accelerating here, not

decelerating and as a result, if you're looking when to get bearish or take profits or become negative, you typically want to see things that are peaking and on a decline. we're not seeing that. and you've got two new gigafactorys coming online here that should add to that growth, not detract from it. so i think, no, it's too soon. >> can i jump in >> go for it. >> so the nhtsa report that he mentioned has been widely debunked they only focused on highway models with respect to the markets, i'd invite jed to tell me what other markets are at their chinese factory? they don't disclose that i believe 100% of tesla's market comes from their chinese factory. excluding that factory, i think every one of their other factories, five factories are loss-making. the top selling iec cars is around 26 cars the average price of an ev car

is around $40,000. the average range of an iec car is around 500 miles. the average range of an ev car is around 300 miles. again, this is a car company 95% of revenue is from selling autos. 5% is -- >> we've got to go is your name really jed an idea? >> they're my initials. >> that's what i thought thank you. when we come back, mohammed el erian will give us his thoughts and don't miss our interview with lloyd blankfein stay tuned you're watching "squawk box," and this is cnbc n. ♪♪

i am daniel dibiasio, managing director, morgan stanley wealth management. a great way to start with a high schooler is to start with something simple and achievable, yet dynamic. could be making a purchase, like a pair of sneakers or a sweater. saving to have a few dollars for a future purchase. or how much money do you think you spent this week? and starting with some actual facts. so it's an exercise i think to be engaged together with your children, rather than giving out like a homework assignment. having a job as a teenager is an incredibly valuable experience and not necessarily just about earning the money, but understanding what it takes having a job. and so just keeping it simple and bite-sized and moving them through a conversation over time is probably a better way to do it. i am daniel dibiasio and we are morgan stanley.

we've got a breakdown in progress cryptocurrency slides well below the market slide coming up interviews with two

market experts you're want to hear from both. moham mohammeed el erian and then llod blankfein. the final hour of "squawk box" begins right now good morning and welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc live from the nasdaq, market site in times square yeah, it's monday. i'm joe kernen along with becky quick and andrew ross sorkin u.s. futures don't look much different. actually last week they kept trying to rally around and t turned around in the end of the session. you can see triple-digit losses right now. the dow, nasdaq took it on the chin last week, another 60 points fed yields, that's not been the

issue. sometimes you see that you see the market react to higher yields and then when the stockmarket goes down, that causes the rise in yields to moderate a little bit, and we've seen it come back. we were at 1.9%. now 1.7% cryptocurrencies have really taken it -- how can you say it -- there's so many things you can't say anymore. >> on the chin >> yeah. they're down maybe not up 33, 2 now. bitcoin just today down another five. >> when i talk about 45% decline, that was based on friday's numbers. >> well over 50. 50%. it's happened before, and the bitcoin will point that out. nothing to sear here. >> the interesting thing is the amount of money that's been lost and vaporized. it's much bigger just based on friday's numbers

without adding the additional losses since then, you were talking about $600 billion in market value just from bitcoin itself and more than $1 trillion in the aggregate crypto market so you are talking about some significant pain when you consider how much money had gone into all of these things. >> all the institutional ownership and the acceptance and the mainstreaming, all the things we've talked about, still you can't say that that's not true because if this really were -- if it really were getting close to the bottom at 33,000 after being at 2,000 two years ago, that econ so dating it at a much higher level. and there's just no -- it went from maybe 90/10 in terms of acceptance -- it's not 50/50 people are ready to say all right. some of the big bears t gold bugs -- >> two things. is it actually going to be a cur currency >> it's now growing, it's now below 50,000

gold is supposed to be at 10,000 it's still down. this is eighteers ago and they're coming out of the woodwork and taking a victory lap. >> i guess the question is anybody using this as a currency at all i mean when you see these kinds of drops, people we talked about it with before taking it in salary, i was looking at our old friend darryn rovell had a tweet about odell beckham jr. who -- you saw this he took his deal, $750,000 in bitcoin. that deal is now worth $412,000, but he had to be taxed on the 750, so now he's netted for the year to play for the rams, 35,000 bucks. >> exactly. >> does that seem like a sustainable proposition for anybody? >> i don't think we ever said it's made it to currency i think people said that it is now looked at as a store value, but, i mean -- >> a sore value that's gone --

it's not zero, but it's gone down. >> the sore value is down 50% from the store value at 68, but up 15 times from where it was as a store value a few years ago. >> right there was a story this morning that said if you invested with berkshire hathaway under warren buffett or arc with cathie wood, your returns for the past two years are the same but two different packets. one that went this way or one that went whoosh and you're back down it depends on when you jump into these things. meanwhile we're about 90 mins from opening bell let's go to senior commentator mark sa mike santoli and soo whaes ooh going on. >> the market itself is showing a lot of short-term extremes

every rally has been sold recently, and now we're dialing back to late summer levels for the s&p 500, right in the 4200s for the s&p, which is the equivalent of 420 for the etf here that gets you back to july's level. so you're kind of wiping away about half a year's worth of gains. that's a start we're also below the 200 day average. there were more put options on friday than any single day in history. you're starring to see a lot of the sentiment and tactical sent meant line up, at least soon in time if not in price that's at least a positive coming from a lot of these negatives. definitely a defensive turn take a look at the dividend and buyback, the s&p as well as the growth sector of the s&p you see this here is the dividend and buyback just in the last several weeks it's basically held up much better, so this is one measure

of what you might call quality or defensive equities that doesn't necessarily have a ton of the big nasdaq stocks because a lot of these quality screens, great balance sheets, great cash flow, they end up forcing you into faang because of the definitions. this show as little bit of discernment going on when it comes to di ss to dividends and. one thing the fed is going to do is look at what the credit markets are up to. so far that's a dog that's not barking here you have the high-yield credit it's still outperforming the corporate debt, that's the white line, the high yield you have this little bit of a cushion here it's not really responding the way the equity market is with volatility levels going up we'll see if, in fact, all the hawkish talk and the way the markets have kind of positioned themselves for a hostile fed, you wonder if it's priced in the extreme hawkish possibility from

the fed on wednesday we'll have to obviously wait and listen to see that. >> mike, what's the chance that microsoft's earnings or apple's earnings provides a fire wall against hawkish talk >> i think the combination of markets being down, valuations getting compressed so much, and maybe in a timely way, you'll have these big somewhat reliable companies again display how profitable they are. it could be. i think the timing has to be right in terms of people's willingness to say they've taken enough punishment. i don't think it's necessarily the trigger for the overall market, but, again, we're getting to the extremes that you're going to have things like -- we're at this point now where we're looking for stuff to worry about, so if you remove a couple of those, you might get a little bit of relief. >> mike santoli, thank you, sir. joining us now for more on the markets and this week's fed meeting is mohamed el erian.

he's a adviser and president of queens college cambridge mohamed, this is one of those times where people are feeling uncomfortable. where are things shaping up from your perspective what you do think happens next >> the story has changed for a long time we had this massive fed umbrella it didn't matter how much it was raining because we were under this fed umbrella with low interest rates and that will stay forever qe forever now it's raining a lot harder, not only economically but geo politically as well. we're dodging the umbrella widely so. it's been abused for a long time i understand this nervousness, and it's not going to go away because inflation is a problem and the fed is going to have to react. >> jeremy siegel was with us the last hour. he said the fed's going to sound much more hawkish.

jay powell will sound much more hawkish and if he's looking at things, you could see the declines more than double. he was talking about the nasdaq getting into bear market territory and the s&p getting well into correction territory so if you're down 5.7% on the s&p, that would be well more double than what we've seen. same story on the nasdaq, not near bear market territory does that sound right to you >> so it's significant because it comes from jeremy what sounds right to me the fed doesn't quite know where the fed is and where it's going. when you look at the analysis, i haven't seen such dispersion about what the analysts are saying not only what the fed is going to do but what the fed should do. so the federal reserve has lost control of the inflation narrative, understandably so because of mischaracterized inflation talk for so long

it has to regain it. the question is how do you regain it? in my view they need to be bold. they need to tell the market we understand we have an inflation problem and react. but most people think the fed isn't going to do that think think it's going be very gradual. that's where whooi there's this incredible range that undermines the market and the economy. >> i forget what the opposite of a virt use cycle is but that seems to be what we're in. this may be market psychology at this point where they're willing to look past a lot of things and really bid up valuations when the multiples kind of unwind, this is what you see but there's been a lot of pain that's been inflicted because even though you talk about the averages being down 5%, 6%, 7% you're talking much steeper declines does it really continue? does the bloodletting continue

at this time >> it's hard to tell let me explain most of the time it's the flows that lead to price action, so you identify the flows and then you see the price action then you can make a judgment as to what comes next this time around, the flows haven't led to price action. the price action has gone way ahead of the flows mike was talking about the credit markets no flows there look at the emerging markets no flows there, in a meaningful way. now, the optimist would say that's great news. it means investors have faith in this market. the pes mistsimists will say, be careful. the biggest problem for investors -- and you talked to jeremy about it -- is they don't know where to go they may not like equities, but like you pointed out, minus 7% return on cash isn't attractive, the bond market isn't attractive

cryptos aren't that attractive with the volatility, so they don't know where to go, and that's what's making us all feel uncomfortable right now. >> where should they go? >> it depends on your situation. i say this all the type. i'm with jeremy. if you've got money to invest, just wait a little bit otherwise make sure you've got a long-term view i worry about the behavorial aspects that people get kicked out of managements at the wrong time, but this is tricky, and it's only january, becky it's only january. >> mohamed, thank you. we will check in with you again soon. >> thank you. coming up former goldman sachs ceo lloyd blankfein joins us to talk about everything this morning. >> and next, though, even though it's still months aunway until taxes are due, ppleoe are embracing for tax season, and we'll tell you why stay tuned

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welcome back to "squawk box. the nasdaq is getting a little worse, down 180 points and the

s&p down 32. interest rates are under control. in fact, the ten-year is in the mid-170 range right now. it's almost 1.9. we figured 2.0 is next not quite. oil still problematic, andrew. >> that it is, that it is. this is another problem. i know you think it's my favorite season of the year. it is not. tax filing beginning tore. the irs starting off with a big hole though. things can get worse from here it's got huge implications for all americans. we have more ylan mui is here to explain what's going on. good morning >> good morning. take a look at these numbers the agency is still working on 9.8 million. 2.3 amended returns and 2.8 million business returns the vast majority of those have

to be processed by hand. now, i spoke this morning with treasury deputy secretary and he said bottom line the irs needs more money to end this bottleneck. >> until that money is approved by congress which we expect to happen this year, they're doing everything they can to help taxpayers deal with what's going to be a tough filing season. >> making things even more complicated is crypto. they're working on tightening the regulations. >> even in emerging issues, we find ways to make sure people aren't able to hide assets that aren't allowing us to collect tax revenue. that's exactly what we're doing, working on rules that will allow us to do that and carefully working with the irs to make sure we capture the revenues that people owe. >> now, those new rules are part

of the infrastructure law that the industry had lobbied so hard against. andrew, adeyemo said they want to get those out as soon as possible back over to you. >> we will see in terms of actual implications, refund, huge issue, but in terms of filing itself, any issue. >> yeah. so far the irs has said that they're not planning to extend the tax filing deadline as they did last year. we'll see if that changes as tax season goes on if you file your taxes electronically, you still should be able to get your refund within 21 days the problem is if you have a complicated refund, amend your tax return, those could get caught in the system and take months and months and months to get resolved. >> thank you i appreciate it. becky? >> thanks, andrew. when we come back, we're live with an exclusive interview with former goldman sachs ceo

lloyd blankfein. we're going to talk markets, feds, risks, and so much more. before we head to break, starting tonight "fast money" is tackling all the trends that changed the way we trade ore the last year. special coverage of the "retail revolution" starts at 5: p00.m. eastern time stay tuned "squawk box" will be ride back here. aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme. throughout history i've observed markets shaped by the intentional and unforeseeable. for investors who can navigate this landscape, leveraging gold, a strategic and sustainable asset... the path is gilded with the potential

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coming up mitch green is going to talk with us. but next an expensive conversation with former goldman sachs ceo oylld blankfein. but don't go anywhere. "squawk" returning right after this 3 and t-mobile will pay for it! upgrade to the iphone 13 on us.

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he's a former chief executive of goldman sachs he doesn't really need an introduction, i don't think really he joins us now to weigh in on whatever we ask him. he's ready let's welcome lloyd blankfein. if you believe the longer and crazier and wilder the party is, the worse the hangover is, have we put in that type of two- or three-year period as grantham said we're looking at the end of a superbullish cycle that could take us down much further than people think

a as a risk guide, do you think -- >> that drunken met for is yours. i have less experience i would say that -- well, perhaps. i'd say one of the big issues in the market today is how far the fed -- because of the uncertainty, you know. the fed has been pretty good at giving the market advance notice of the pace of change, how far change might go, and people have come to rely on that we're in a situation now probably wihere the fed itself s pretty insecure in that, and so people instead of having some certainty in that, not that there's ever really certainty, but a feeling of certainty, people are kind of extrapolating, you know, big cars and risk, you know -- the riskiness of the situation is quite great. those of us of a certain age are having a little bit pts d'back

to 1994. you probably remember that andrew probably wasn't born yet. that was a situation where the fed had to do a lot in a relatively compressed time frame. i'm not suggesting that i believe that that's the situation now, but at this point the market is -- you know, the market's a little bit cringy. >> do you remember -- i'm going to put this in a way that makes me -- i mean i guess i'd have to say the fed has gotten increasingly political, and i think they care about what they're responsible for. do you think they'reresolve do necessary in the coming months if the market were to get dicey? is there a fed put based off that. >> let's unpack it you know, i'm not sure what -- you know, away from the politics, you know, the fed --

the fed doesn't want to put the country into a recession regardless of what -- not just as a matter of trying to please the politicians and all of this at the given moment. i don't think they'll do that they haven't shown that tendency i agree always i can't agree to what mohamed said previously. i'm just not as mad as them as he is because i think they had a tough job of keeping the country out of recession they were given the patient that had a really -- that had real big health issues that could have really -- you know, that could have gotten existential, and they were erring on the sid of preventing that problem, and so they were willing to take additional risks, some of which is manifesting now i think the fed -- you know, the market is in the process of

absorbing what it believes the fed has to do, maybe even a little more than that because, again, the unknown and the unpredictability of it so it could be severe. it doesn't have to be as extreme as some people are thinking. it's not just a matter of pleasing the politicians look, there's a lot of inflation out there. the bulk of it obviously doesn't feel transitory. some of it might be. there are really -- it's not all or nothing there are some issues that due to covid and, you know, consequent effect on supply chains, and there's a lot of stimulus in the market that was added again. we can discuss whether all of that was advisable or not, but the fiscal policy is trying to prevent a worse outcome, and a lot of that lighter fluid is getting burnt off also some of it is transitory, but i'm not polpollyanna-ish

they'll come out and say it's market stuff, but the markets have adjusted to some extent it's a question of how much. we're sitting here with the futures coming off again, and i'm trying to look at this in a way -- the futures were up -- one day doesn't make a difference who knows what can happen on any given day, but if the futures were up today going into the opening, people wouldn't sound as negative as they do today you have to separate yourself a little bit we're kind of in risk management mode here. the fact that we don't know is a bearish factor in and of itself, and so in risk management mode, you kind of reduce risk, and that's what people are doichlk some peel have alluded to the fact more puts are being bought, people are getting out of positions, but there will be an end to it, and some of the best purchases here in the long run will be done, you know, at a moment like this when people are probably the most fearful. >> when you said that the fed

doesn't want to cause a recession, there was a time when the fed needed to do that to break the back of inflation, and that volcker really caused -- >> it did. >> we're nowhere near that, do you think? >> we all -- i think we lived through that i don't think we're there. if you look at the numbers and, you know, the shock headline, again, there are other factors going on here that weren't evident there. look, there's other things toochtoo. we're starting at 0 to 25 basis points there's a lot of room to go up and still be the best game -- you know, equities, for example, still being the best game in town for quite a lot of movement, and so there's that factor also. again, i'm not pollyannaish.

there's only so many times where you can go through times like this where people's knees are knocking together, including mine, and it does come to an end, although, people don't always think that. >> yep we're very low there's plenty of time to go up. but if something were to go amiss, we don't have much cutting to do to try to stimulate things let me ask you about stimulus. >> which, by the way, is exactly why they chose to err on the side of easier monetary policy and take the risk of inflation versus the much more consequential risk of deflation. >> do you think that if we don't get further fiscal stimulus -- i don't know what happens. maybe we do smaller pieces of build back better, but let's say the election -- who knows. it's so far off, believe it or not, november. let's say that we do switch the

house or teen sehe senate and t no more fiscal stimulus coming is that good or bad for the stockmarket and for the economy? >> well, the answer is yes i mean obviously if you spend a lot of money and introduce a lot of spending into the market, that's, again, more lighter fluid. and then the risk is all you're burning is lighter fluid and the coals don't catch and what do you do, and then you have to deal with the consequence of additional wasteful spending i don't mind taking a pause here and letting -- you know, letting us all absorb a lot of the stimulus that's already been introduced in the market clearly that had -- i mean people say it doesn't have an -- obviously if you pump a lot of money and you're going to have inflationary effect -- look. weird times. you had high growth, you know, strong fiscal policy, and zero interest rates when did that happen and we know why it did happen in

connection with covid. i wish we started at a higher place before covid, and so maybe one of the problems was we should have taken away some of that ease and tightened up financial condition as little bit in advance of it so we could have started at a stronger place and go down, and that goes to your ammunition point. but given where we are, it would be -- certainly it would be a lot more consequential to have a deflationary situation look like it and have no more -- you know, have not a lot of things that the fed could have done. obviously they can do more stuff, but not a lot of obvious stuff to do. >> i want to let becky and andrew in, but i've been around you enough to know how much you love studying history and things that happened before world war ii, after world war ii what do you make of -- what will happen if or when russia goes into ukraine is that on your radar screen

isn't that something that could be significant >> yeah. it goes to show how focus wed are on the story of the day that we seem not to notice what would otherwise be the prevailing headline you know, again, i don't think we're watching a looming worrell war iii. again, a lot of things -- whenever something's resolved, you can look back and say that wasn't so bad. when you're in the middle of something and it could go in any direction even though it's unlikely, people get more -- it becomes more problematic in people's minds, but generally for the market, the markets are kind of amoral, and i don't know that it necessarily has to affect equity prices i think in some kind of weird way, if there is that kind of a thing, maybe the market starts to think that the fed will be a little bit less aggressive on raising interest rates or taking away their monetary stimulus it certainly won't be bad for oil prices

it may be bad for the country, but it won't be bad -- energy prices and commodity prices will go up, but it doesn't have to be bad. we might be entering that realm where bad news is good news because bad news will slow up the fed and make people think the inflation thing is a little bit more self-correcting and the economy is slowing anyway. so, you know, i don't know i remember living through a number of, you know, wars and things like that it's not necessarily a horrible thing to the equity market, although, it will be bad day the first day that that happens. >> all right >> hey, lloyd, i don't know if this is a hard question for you or not do you want to own the banks in this environmental the reason i ask, there's a view that at least the traditional banks are going to benefit from

a higher interest rates. you've seen the distinction between where the stocks of a jpm are compared to where a goldman is right now, your former firm. >> yeah, well, i think banks have -- have earned discounts in the market because every -- you know, every once in a while periodically, you know, it seems like every four, five years had the prices of the century every four or five years, and i think that that, you know, extra additional risk, i don't see any of that kind of looming on the horizon. bank balance sheets -- look. away from the high -- away from any additional tailwind you get from a change in yield rates or a curve, you're making a lot of money in this market by the way, a lot of it, for example, the capital market banks and trading banks are making a lot of money.

they can make a lot going up or down but it has to be a lot of activity the problem is you have a low multiple applied to them because of the experiences i've spoken of but there's a new regime there the banks are operating under very, very tight oversight and i know people will say, it's been loosed up. the capital markets are very, very stiff in a way, i'm not regretting that because if the banks were competing with each other, maybe by now they would have been taking riskier positions the fed has. applied them despite their best efforts to be riskier, they weren't allowed to be riskier, so i think they're in very good shape and the earnings have been there, and they trade at an unbelievably low multiple the visk that the multiple stays low, but at some point they do earn money, they do buy back shares, they do raise their dividends and probably will, so

i don't think it's a bad place to be. but then what? i topped my book. >> are you buying? >> am i buying i think i already own all of it. >> hey, lloyd, it's been good to see you. i've been thinking of one of the bigger issues. we saw earnings go up last year, up by 4.7% but when you look at the overall pay for all workers, overall wages for all workers when you adjust for inflation, they were actually down by 2.4%. we've been talking inequality for a long time. we saw jeff bezos lose money elon musk lost $25 billion that's probably not the way we wanted to fix the inequality problem. how do we get at this intractable problem? >> well, i don't concede on the intractability of anything, but it's certainly difficult and it's been around, and it's been exacerbated. look, the important thing is to

do things that don't shrink -- the economic system has to do two things hayes to create wealth and it has to distribute it i think our system has been genius at creating it and less good at distributing it. i think there has to be some redistribution of it through the tax system, and i think that that's been accomplished you know, we need a stable society, and without that, there won't be a stable society for the wealthy to jeb rate more wealth, so that has to happen. on the other hand, i'm not for putting a greater part of the economy into the hands of the government because, you know, i don't want to turn transportation into amtrak or the health system into the veterans administration. you can go on and see my drift there. i think government civil servants do a great job with what they have, but you can't promote the most talented. everything is seniority, you know it's a very difficult way to get the most value and contribute

most to the economy in public hands, and so i would -- again, i'm not -- i don't adopt the socialist credo of putting more of the economy into the hands of the government, but i don't hate that part of it that recognizes the inequality and wants to have a progressive tax system. >> lloyd, i know we talked about crypto with you over the years and you've been, let's just say, lightly skeptical. does the turn in crypto over the past couple of months or weeks changed your view? a lot of banks obviously -- traditional banks are now making crypto available in ways that they weren't before. how are we all going to look back at this five years from now? >> look. my view of it is evolving not as an intellectual. look i remember when they were, you know -- a couple of decades ago, maybe 30 years ago or more, they

were auctioning off bandwidth for cellphones and i was thinking to myself, why would anyone want to carry around a phone? there's tens of thousands of phone booths around the country. why would anyone want to carry a phone? guess what that worked. the point i take is i don't know -- i'm bad at -- i can't predict the future, but i think it's a big thing to be able to predict the present, like what is happening. and i look at the crypto, and it is happening and so i -- you know, again, as an intellectual matter, i can't think differently about it, but as a pragmatist and somebody who's not only skeptical of the market but my own views and trying to get on board and acknowledge things that i don't know anything about and strange things are happening, i would say it's lost a lot of value, but it's a point where it's trillions of dollars and whole ecosystems are growing around it, and, of course, we have the

benefit of transfers and blockchains that people come on your show and talk about you know, i may be skeptical, but i'm also pragmatic about it, and so, guess what i would certainly want to have an oar in that water. >> i mean the way that really wealthy people are able to shelter -- i mean obviously a lot of the assets, some they paid taxes on and said it was accrued. some they haven't if it's been thought it's gone up, that they've never paid tacks on. so i understand what you're saying there but in terms of redistribution, you kind of mentioned my name. i think i'd redistribute -- i live in new jersey, so i'm at about 55%, 57% or so, and i'm fine with that i redistribute what i make are you saying in general the u.s. tax system is not progressive or not progressive enough in your view? and if so, what is a good number

to have as a maximum marginal rate for people -- >> joe, i'm not going to play that game. >> well, you talked about it you talked about it like you want do it is it progressive now or not, lloyd. >> well, i live in new york, so it's awfully progressive. >> okay, thank you. >> i mean, to me, i don't think you're barely a taxpayer because i live in new york and you're way over across the sea in new jersey. >> we do our best. we try to -- we try to one-up new york what are we, a couple of basis points less than new york? i don't think we're much less. >> maybe on that basis you could have -- for what you get, you may be overpaying more than i am. >> people will say marginal rates, you have all of those deductions there aren't any deductions left for people that are doing very well, but not the people that we're talking about that have accrued trillions in the -- during the pandemic. i don't know how we get after that. >> i'm just saying, joe, i'm not

a flat tax nick. >> right again, looking at the world, again, the system -- it's not going to be good for wealthy people. >> give me a way to do it. don't just say it in virt you signal tell me how you want to do it. how do you want to do it >> let me consult my staff of economists that they have at the treasury where they'll come out with a precise number and i'm come back. >> you mentioned 1994. do you remember the bank crisis in 1997? that was a doozy do you remember that one that was brutal? >> joe, i didn't live through the civil war, but i know a lot about it the bottom line is i do know a lot about the 1907 situation i didn't have to live through everything, but i will tell you it's a lot more livid when you do live through it and i lived through 1994. >> you have my favorite quote of all time, that we're not in the

higgins boat we're going into the u.s. fed. >> right thanks a lot, joe. be well. coming up on the other side of this, jim cramer and the week e d. thbig fed meeting and lots and lots to look forward to. stay here. you're watching "squawk box" on cnbc you're a one-man stitchwork master. but your staffing plan needs to go up a size. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

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and all the days in between. today we take our greatest step yet forward fulfilling our mission and helping more people achieve financial independence. let's get down to the new york stock exchange. if you're watching the future this morning, down another 1.5%. is this the tip of open you were looking for? does this concern you? what do you think? >> it is the one i'm looking for

yesterday when the games were on, you saw the futures up and you thought, oh, darn, here it is again a pitfall of fires come in and they get killed and when the president announced families have to leave, things started to go over. one thing i would olympics it's been abysmal. i think fear buying anything because people don't like to be down no matter what -- no matter where they buy and i wish we had more information about what is going on in the last half hour to hour or trading it's so all buys seem untenable. there are a lot of company that are interesting. >> buying the dips is something that was beaten into the investors for years. it worked for a long time. we haven't seen a decline like this in a long time. >> we have you look it's see the decline when omicron spread. it's a little bit like the

decline that was caused by jay powell talking about lock step also, the decline in 2018 where there was just the problem where the vix went haywire we're at the extremes. at the same time it's beginning earnings season. most of the people i've listen listening to the in the morning have been so negative. i'm watching a company like kohls which is not exactly a great asset being bid upon by two different companies. so i don't -- by no means to give up the market but 600 companies became public since '21 began. spac and ipo i can't find any to buy. i think that's a weakness in the market. >> jim, thank you. i know people will be tuning in to hear more about what you're thinking this morning. important opening. by the way, folks, we want to remind you about the new cnbc investing club sign up to find more

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welcome back to "squawkbox." things are not looking up. the dow down about 280 points. nasdaq off about 207 points even the s&p 500 looking to open down 50 points. big banks right now. you'll be looking at jpmorgan, bank of america, citigroup all

down about 2% across the board, and then the faang stocks with, that's what we'll talk to the next guest about if you look now, you're looking at numbers in the 1 to 2% range. netflix down almost 3.5% mitchell green is here he's the founding partner at lead edge capital. mitchell, i'm curious what you're thinking and doing given what clearly is a downdraft at the moment. >> yeah, good to be on this morning. yeah it clearly downdraft i'm interested, you know, in the nasdaq is down 14% and the s&p is down 9. but underneath it, i mean, you have a lot of people still had hiding in the large cap stocks amazon broke last week but, you know, google, microsoft. things are down that much. underneath the covers in a lot of software, you know, half --

all the software stocks we look at are down on average about 50%. probably more this morning and, like, 40 plus percent of the nasdaq stocks are down 50. there's already a tremendous amount of pain in the market it looks like there's more coming. >> so that's the question, though you said there's more coming does it mean you buy now or wait because you think there's more coming timing historically has never been anybody's great strong suit. >> yeah. and i think we're starting to buy in the software world we're buying two of assets we run often times with a lot of cash we're never going to go -- and we're not fully invested at all right now. there's a business on the stock chaex exchanges. we were early investors of it. i think we bought the shock originally at 3 pounds a share and distributed it back at 6

they just reported good numbers last week. we also have igh-quality software lean like the service now and data dogs. i think those are great businesses that will compound over long periods of time. i also think you can start to look for there's another software companies that are cheap. trading like three times revenue or four times revenues that have really good gross in that potential. so sticky customers that are going to annihilate. there's hundreds of billions of dollars in capital on the side now and probably equity buyout funds. i think if you see prolonged pricing down near a lot of these companies. >> you said there's a couple of companies you thought their stocks were annihilated at three times revenue. what companies are you talking about? >> a company called sumo logic that has been crushed.

the stock is down probably 60 to 70%. it still grows 100 plus percent a year toast restaurant point of sale systems was a big ipo system last year. i can't tell you what this quarter or next quarter with all the economy stuff going on if the numbers will get bumpy, but, like, people are still eating outside. that's the business we like for the long-term. >> what is the chance that the fed is not as hawkish this week as perhaps the market thinks and there's a rating >> i think -- i can tell you these things will probably go vertical, i would guess. and it can snap back and an expert on the bear markets, or i'm not or bull

markets will tell you in a bear contract there are violent rallies on the way but, like, talking about raising rates 200 basis points over the next year. it won't end the world i don't think. and the software and, you know, every hundred basis points and multiples are coming down 15% or so at least for the high growth names. if you grow fast, youcan earn your way you have to take advantage of the situation selectively to deploy cash and businesses will be bigger today than five years. i have no clue but you have to use your cash and slowly get in the names you really like and like for the long-term. >> thank you for joining us this morning.

we wish you a lot of luck. >> thank you as things get choppy we'll take a quick final check of the markets looking to open in the red again. dow down about 350 points. nasdaq off 242 points. s&p 500 off about 60 points. then bitcoin trading below 35,000 we'll see whether it breaks 33,000 for now we're going to hand it off to our good friends at squawk on the street make sure you join us tomorrow good morning futures are rolling over here as the nasdaq looking set for a fifth straight 1% loss a fed meeting, a third of the s&p meetings including ibm tonight. it begins with the ongoing market volatility. futures point to more declines the s&p down 8% year tda