>> a blue collar, white collar, or blue collar folks -- >> you hope in this digitalage everybody would have access to some of those platforms. point number ten on the list, comcast. >> hey we know them. >> parent company of this network. >> take a bow, everybody thanks for watching "power lunch," everybody. >> "closing bell" starts right now. stocks in the red by well off lows in this roller coaster reaction to the fed minutes. most important hour of trading starts now welcome, every, to "closing bell." i'm sara eisen where we stand now dropped to session lows a moment ago but back nicely. dow down 68 points technology hit hardest again. seeing weakness in all the tech names. chips, internet, software, hardware consumer discretionary worse in

the s&p. utilities holding up and so is reality estate, health care and energy mission of energy and defensive plays. nasdaqdown 1.5%. you can see a lot of winners over the last year or so it's moderna, it's the high-growth companies. cloud names and software secure, cybersecurity names, and paypal down more than 3%. top takeaways on some of the day's biggest stories. david dowd pick your darling, 90% of the etf pshgs cloud etf in the red even with a bounceback in past weeks. higher interest rates, biggers winners in a low environment david dowd had a great quarter valuations down bu

feshfeshl fe firmly in the cross hairs of the federal reserve. and lockdown extended indefinitely in china. service sector contracting sharpest pace in two years in march. and more supply chain issues expected a growing headwind dollar higher strengthened 8% in a year. rising again today strong dollar cuts into any overseas revenue of u.s. multicompanies hurts with a lag expectcurrency headwinds commentary on earnings calls this quarter dollar rolled back for everyone. drug companies, consumer companies, autos, you make it. the latest salvo to fight inflation rallying markets again. and after the minutes of the fed

released, fell again and now come back a bit. fed official saying in the minutes from the last meeting they plan to shrink the balance sheet around $95 billion we are month. joining us, a chief economist, cnbc's steve liesman and mike santoli. mike, interesting, the market. told us a few months ago the fed would come out in a minute from the last meeting saying most people favored a 50 basis point hike super-duper interest rate hike and looking at shrinking balance sheet $95 billion a month the next few months, get aggressive. you would expect stocks to take it poorly. could be a lot worse. >> you would exactly with respect to that, sara, if they hadn't been telling us almost exactly that for months until today. out of nowhere, out of the blue, at a moment in time if that was the news, hitting a complacent wall street, yeah.

not seen the market handful well the whole question is to what degree has the fed's aggressive and methodical scene been absorbed in the market it's been a question this happened the very day of the fed tightening in the press conference we anticipated so much and the market declining perhaps in advance of. i think that's part of the issue here just what's priced in. have we been prepared for what is fully out there in terms of the fed? >> to that point, perceived bullish for bonds. at least two-year yield coming down steve, any surprises here? >> unanimity, interesting. all in agreement pretty much epa, i meant u.s. fish and wildlife service used to put monetary policy dove on the endangered species list. the only people worried going too fast, only reason, market functioning reasons.

a legitimate question here, sara, whether or not even the fed thinks what they've lid out here is enough notice both the staff and the federal reserve officials say we're going to continue with above trend growth here. which is even though marked down growth still think it will be above trend. is this enough to deal with inflation? >> is it, paul >> we will find out. what we do know, and i agree very much with mike and steve, the fed's done a marvelous job laying out the scene the fed is committed unambiguously committed to dealing with this inflation problem, and counterpart to that is they're unambiguously committed to tightening financial conditions. they are laser-beam focused on this, and that's what i think all the rhetoric in recent months has been saying the actions as well as the meeting. so i think that's what we can take away, and whether or not what gave to the plotted out is enough, we will find out in

time, but what they're telling us is that it's not enough we will do more. which is implicitly recognizing they will increase down-side risk for the economy, but are having their voelker moment. >> what about the idea doing a lot. made it clear. brainard told us yesterday do so much it's going to tilt our economy into recession and then have to stop then maybe even have to do easing because the economy's going to be in recession and inflation come down. is that too far of a leap? that's out there and could be what's limiting the damage here in the stock market. >> when i was a young man i had someone tell me not to forecast around two corners effectively what you're asking me to do, forecast around two corner, but seriously. i do think that if you're going to get a soft landing there will be an easing cycle on the other

side of the tightening cycle that's not an ish rational proposition whether it's a soft landing or a hard landing, and i think the yield curve will sort of try to figure out many, many curves along the way but i think where we are right now is the fed wants the entire yield curve to move up not just with controls but wants -- the yield curve to actually steepen out the curve effectively restore a private market determined risk premium, remove suppression of volatility that qe imposed. >> stephen it is a question of the financial conditions and what the fed would like to see the dudley op-ed today knock stocks down harder what do you think is appropriate there how the fed used the market in terms how it affects the economy and what they would like to see now? what are they willing to do

about it >> if i could be diplomatic about it, i think the fed would not be upset in the market was lower. i don't know it would specifically aim for a level of the market that were lower, but picking up on what paul says it wants to see financial conditions tightened, and paul use add great foes in notes i don't want him to leave without saying which described what's going on as after the fed created all of this money now it's going to uncreate money which is pretty much what it's going to be doing here look, what's interesting here to me, sara, among other things is, the market went through this in '94. i'm having a discussion with my friend barry whether this rate hike is tougher more aggressive than '94 we lived through it then got through it got inflation oust system and a long expansion after that. it was ugly in the bond market

hated the fed a lot of years after that but the fed is not around to be liked so much. >> leave it there. lovely note. steve, mike, paul, thank you, all three of you up next a rare interview with billionaire investor and real estate investors sam zell on pick-up in volatility and sectors of the economies he's in you're watching "closing bell" on cnbc. dow down only 100 points. power e*trade gives you an award-winning mobile app with powerful, easy-to-use tools, and interactive charts to give you an edge, 24/7 support when you need it the most. plus, zero-dollar commissions for online u.s. listed stocks. [ding] get e*trade and start trading today. never settle with power e*trade. it has powerful, easy-to-use tools to help you find opportunities, 24/7 support when you need answers, plus some of the lowest options

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stocks down 97 points. check out the stealth hoover rocket companies home lending company sinking today a big decliner in the past three hours. no company specific news on the take but mortgage data out today. applications down 40% from this time last year and rates sit near 5%. keep climbing. stocks in the red well off worst levels of the session. billionaire real estate mogul sam zell joins me. founder and chairman of equity group investments working with various industries great to see you. >> thank you. >> always. market reacting to the fed minutes. we learn they'll trim their balance sheet. $59 -- $95 billion a month raising interest rates how will the market and economy take all this? >> i don't think i can speak to the market, but i've had, that

operates in its own realm, but i think that shrinking the liquidity factor is a very important thing, and i mean, i think the fed is probably five or six months behind what they should have been doing, and i think inflation that we're dealing with which is, i think, very significant and much higher, frankly, than what the statistics suggest, is all about too much money chasing too few opportunities. >> miskell, monetary >> yeah. i mean -- >> they overdid it >> when you think all the fiscal stimulus and i think something pointed out to me that you know, the fed debt level, you know, four years ago versus what it is today. the u.s. debt level is just enormously bigger, and that means that the economy was just overrun with money and -- that basically destroys

price discovery. >> i think the fed realizes this needs to be done the question, how painful taking the punch bowl away? >> you know, history says it's not uneventful and my guess is we'll have -- depending on the situation. i mean, i think there is a lot of -- i'm obviously involved in the reit area, but in the reit arena we've never had as low debt levels as we have today so i think that, for example, is unlikely to be significantly impacted on the other hand, there's a lot of, you know, leverage businesses that have changed interest rates particularly over 150 basis points it's going to make a difference. >> are you in the recession camp >> no. i think the economy is, frankly, stronger than conventional

wisdom suggests. but i think that you know, it's going to be typical to -- you're going to have some difficult times and particularly difficult companies that are, you know, selling at multiples of sales, not multiples of profits. >> how are you preparing some of the companies? you mentioned the reits are in good shape and acting as a safe haven in the market. how do you prepare companies you're dealing with for a big reversal we're about to see at the same time seeing sky-high interest rates >> liquidity equals value. i think more than ever before that's going to be relevant going forward. >> when do you think inflation comes down to normal levels? >> when do i think or when do i hope >> both. >> i think that -- >> so they're different? >> you know, we've got to get inflation under control. we can't afford to have a repeat

of '70 but i'm worried that, you know, between the president who seems to want to sign anything that, you know, creates more money to a congress that doesn't seem to remember, you know, cost benefit relationships. it might take a lot longer that it should. >> do you think inflation is on biden's shoulders, from the stimulus bill? >> it's hard not -- >> you can blame the fed, the supply chain. >> it's not -- it's very hard not to give him a lot of the credit i mean, i think that he came in, i think he came in in a period where the inflation bug was already in place, but that first trillion, now, remember, we used to talk about raising, you know, taxes or raising money in billions, and when, for biden's first day in office he started talking about trillions.

and the economy just can't afford that kind of liquidity. >> sam zell, stay with me to dive deeper into your portfolio and talk energy and real state and take a quick break on "closing bell. dow down 94 points s&p down threequarters of 1% we're back with sack zelm zell a quick break.

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welcome back to "closing bell." a little lower 139 or so on the dow. our guest of the hour, billionaire businessman sam zell here for the annual reit symposium at nyu i wanted to talk about the real estate market. mortgage rates past 5% how do you expect it to impact demand >> i think that the overall real estate market has been in a kind of a period of -- of relatively little activity. and i think that obviously the

most, the biggest impact of raising interest rates is going to be on single-family mortgages. whether or not the difference between 3% and 5% turns out to be the slowing on that, i'm not sure i mean, overall, my feeling about interest rates is that we can probably have interest rates 200 basis points higher than they are without any dramatic impact on the economy. >> what about pricing? are we just going to continue to face higher prices for residential real estate and rent >> you know, that's comparing single-family housing, you know, to the rest of the commercial real estate market the single-family market, you know, for 25 years we built a million single-family house as year, and then all of a sudden we built 250,000 so the pricing more than anything is supply and demand.

and we're not, we're still not doing enough to catch up with, you know, our population has grown, but we're building less houses than we did before, and, therefore, it's not a big shock that the price in housing has gone up. >> a stagflationary outlook for housing? >> to some extent. however, if you owned a house, you've done well recently. >> if buying one it's a tough market. >> yes. >> what about offices and commercial real estate got to be disappointed how slow of a return? >> well, the whole work from home thesis is impacting the office space market. my company and my people have been back to work for over a year. i believe that the -- the culture you create is very much ra function of all of your people working together. i'm not a big fan of work from home i don't know how you motivate by

modem. i don't know how you -- you assess quality of the talent you have from afar. and zoom calls clearly will have their place, but it's very hard -- >> it's a workers' market and workers like flexibility. >> well, you know, that's all well and good, you know, assuming that -- you know, the worker's flexibility doesn't, you know, attack the whole question of affectively working together i mean, you know, we have been successful by generating opportunities for people to work together. we have been successful because of what you call the water cooler effect of interfacing with the people you're working with i think the biggest, you know, mitigator of risk is accessibility, and so the more you have a silo's environment of people working at home, the

greater the risk is that you're not sharing that which you need to do. >> and finally i did want to ask about energy you have been an energy investor for a long time. and there are some tectonic shifts going on. do you see what's happening right now, the war in ukraine, the cutoff of russia, do you see these as permanent shifts in the energy market and the dynamic there? >> just as we talked about the million single-family houses and then 200,000 the energy market is the same. effectively spending an enormous amount on fracking, expanding the energy business and then we've done a reversal. and that kind of reversal is going to be very expensive to correct. >> and take time. >> and take, for sure take time. in the meantime, it's going to be a challenge i mean, the ukrainian war is an unfortunate disaster, and it's

going to have an impact on the energy markets, you know the question is, is russia ever going to become a responsible party in the world >> so given all of these dynamics right now, globally and some volatility, what's most exciting to you right now? what sort of opportunities in the investment world >> well, we've, you know -- we think the real estate market is pretty benign and not very interesting right now. we've spent a lot of time in the last four or five years doing what i call generational investing. where, in effect, we come in and put up the capital to take, you know, a big chunk of a private company leaving the people in it who are working in it and diving giving a check to the heirs. that's turned out to be a very

interesting niche and one growing as a lot of these companies reached a level where, of maturity but don't necessarily want to be part of the public market. >> when you say "real asset" you mean reits the businesses you're in >> they're in the commercial real estate business look at commercial real estate business today, the warehouses space is extraordinarily high. office space is pretty you know, benign nothing going on. multifamily is doing well. retail is falling nice. so you start looking at all the different elements, and because there's been so much supply of capital, there's been relatively little discipline. and i think at some point in the near future we're going to see that discipline get reimposed and kind of separate out the men from the boys. >> sam zell. always good to catch up with you. >> a pleasure. >> thank you for coming by

post nine. to the near stock exchange that's sam zell. after the break, a closer look at technical damage done in the nasdaq 100 hit harder than the rest later talk to an analyst about the big drop for the airlines on the drob of jetblues unsolicited offer for spirit jetblue, by the way, down almost 8% we'll be right back. (vo) some bonds last a lifetime. some bonds inspire confidence, and some you grow to rely on. these are the bonds worth investing in. for over 50 years, pimco has reinvented fixed income to create opportunities for investors in every market environment. so, no matter what happens you can build the bonds that mean the most to you.

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we are heading south again dow down 200 points and yet again the tech heavy nasdaq bearing brunt of losses. looking at tech stocks in the dashboard today. mike >> nasdaq an exaggerated version of the broader market on the way up and into last year high as well as the way down more vulnerable spot in terms of technically and sentiment around it where valuation excesses, where are the highs and drawn out most a couple observations. trade here still below october lows s&p 500 like 4% above its own october lows seems a little less lift here. broke this down, turned aggressively in the rebound rally, and now could be working on another one here. you have to watch whether it can possibly get relief. one final thing. probably needs to stay above that level there to keep people from thinking we're going to revisit those lows the nasdaq 100 the semis.

on the worry list along with home builders and transports and banks consumer cyclicals and underforming usually a risk appetite in economic bellwether. performing great and out performance's that gap with the s&p rhymes with previous ones. it isn't always the case that when semis are pointed south and underperforming it means it's going to snowball from there clearly kind of, can't trust without verifying how the group actually acts, sara. >> we'll watch it. thanks see you soon in "the market zone." up nt,ex thousanding descend on miami for a major conference. head there live wofor a report what is driving the whole bitcoin conference lower today bitcoin down about 15%. [sound of helicopter blades] ugh... they found me. ♪ ♪

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what's wall street buzzing about today? crypto a rough session. down 5%. ether and litecoin falling farther. and descending on miami for the bitcoin 2022 conference. kate rooney is live in miami always live in miami for the bitcoin conferences. what are you hearing about today's pullback and what are folks saying there >> reporter: steal a line from mike santoli in the last block talked about the nasdaq being exaggeration verngs of equities. bitcoin and cryptocurrencies saying for the same reason seeing highter growth assets lael brainard's comments, not great for riskier higher growth assets or non-yielding like gold

and bitcoin. believe it or not bitcoin outparming other large cap and cryptocurrency looking within the realm of the crypto like a safe haven describing it, you know bitcoin has a floor. people come in and you see el salvador coming in cases to buy the dip. l lu luno, backing and a floor i bitcoin. might be a relative save haven but doesn't seem to spill over to the crypto conference here. a lot of excitement. a bright ticker tape inside people are walking by. not looking at the price but more about the long-term investment and hype around bitcoin. >> sure. not looking at it at all kate rooney from miami. and time to aggressively own tech names

wall street's reaction to the surprise jetblue bid for spirit. those stories and more when we take you inside the "market zone." dow down 157 we'll be right back. didates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire matching your job description. nurse mariyam sabo knows a moment this pure... ...demands a lotion this pure. new gold bond pure moisture lotion. 24-hour hydration. no parabens, dyes, or fragrances. gold bond. champion your skin.

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d nazdaq leading declines. a downbeat note on the market. live. >> we're paranoid. u.s. equity market 5% up side between now and end of the year. should we go into recession, a meaningfuldown side but no the case. >> 5% up side, mike. now others talking about recession. deu deutsche with the call yesterday. shrinking balance sheets, raising interest rates what do investor do about all this >> david's comments perfectly capture the mind-set you have to have it. fed tightening financial conditions, stocks under pressure, spreads go up, or mortgage rates go to 5% which already happened biggest question how much of the work already done allowing

highehigh higher probability of recession than a couple months ago that's what i think the market is struggling with and price every day obviously. today i will say the s&p 500 sort of defended this area it had to. did not get disorderly on the down side. outperforming by a lot, mega cap stuff is a drag. not a victory in itself but shows it's a two-way market since the lows of several weeking ago. >> cloud stocks falling hard today. snowflake, significant losses. watching the space closely frank, what's driving the sharp pullback other than higher rates we're talking about? >> you know, it's higher rates and questioning valuations of a lot of big names reits first, yield on the ten year a percent higher than intraday low an march 7th. often talk about the cloud etf look at the name bringing it lower, really high valuation names. for example, snowflake down more

than 30% year to date. it has a valuation of 1,000 times forward earnings put it in context, nasdaq forward pe of 28 times data dog down more than 20%. 250 times and another great example, 179%, but keep in mind, that's tlassi a an. >> and what about the cloud names in particular? >> lower than they were. usually sales valuation for a lot of faster moving names one thing to keep in mind, when you look at things like the cloud, etf, not dominated by big cloud infrastructure players riding the secular trends. amazon's, microsoft, et cetera it's really software as service

companies cloud-based application-type companies a couple hundred came public supply versus demand imbalance all valuations cut people thought magical business models no other being valued now on total addressable market very tough to say valuation-wise they've reached some kind of floor, but you can say that the stocks have acted as if, maybe, the had climatic saving. it's a tough call to say somehow we're at an inflection point because they're down. >> we have to distinguish, i feel between cloud names and software with strong cash flows considered more quality names. microsoft, for instance, hit hard today versus faster growing ones like data dog or snowflake. have we seen a gap in performance here >> absolutely. sort of pre-profit or low-profit names, some down 70% from their

highs. microsoft, it's pulled back hard but very much in a multiyear uptrend. not that big a deal. tweaking valuation around the edges of a big player. >> sticking with a tech story. nasdaq sharply underperforming the past couple days the story bring in webex deputy. this is too much >> oversold tech stocks i've seen in the last five years. i view this as a massive buy table pounding on cybersecurity names. names like crowdstrike, tenable. names like microsoft on the cloud side, cloud valuations of a google as well amazon. sara, i think at this point the new york city cab driver knows

the path over the next 18 months now nerve-racking investors we're talking to risk/rewards, buying these names heavy the next few weeks. >> here's the problem. since you recommended v-scaler last time. now 9% other names even worse picked it, down 50%. not to pick on you a problem. looking at fundamentals and valuations and this market focus and the macro. >> no doubt. look, i view it this is not a call on these names for the next week or the next month it's, where do we see us over the next 12 to 18 months playing outside and the last few years i believe the digital transformation in terms of growth tech is two to three what we've seen in the last decade and why some of the names, the fro froth will come up some could be falling each night but look at names in

cybersecurity, names like microsoft, look at names across the ecosystem on the infrastructure side i think right now massively over sold relative how we see fundamentals haters will hate fire into a crowd theater going into earnings. i think we see four, five weeks from now as a golding buying opportunity. as we talked when the fed started to raise rates, uwe use it as a bottom. >> any hint out of these companies or do you expect to hear anything about the fundamentals deteriorating potential recession or pullback, for instance, in enterprise spending ing in like that going on? >> look, i think on the niche player, some of the pure plays like maybe data dogs, stuff like some of that growth sort of wane a bit, but i think the theme coming out of earnings will be cloud, cybersecurity, enterprise

spending next gen xaccelerating not decelerating i believe going into tech, use add bright green light ultimate buckle the seat belt time but i view it as the year to go in tech. >> your favorite you like the group, one pick, if you had to >> one pick, palleo alto risk/reward the golden name. >> that one actually, mike, has been up, about 23% since the call it's hard to argue with the whole secular growth theme, mike right? y when it comes to some of these companies. data dog, bet quarter ever put up in life of the company but not mattered for the stock price. frustrating? >> and flip side of stocks

quadrupling first quarter 2021 when underlining fundamentals weren't quadrupling. interesting point. at some time down the road the very large nasdaq dominant tech players again regain that defensive quality attribute and in fact overall earnings spottier not talking about rapid growth overall in the s&p earnings. used to be that's when you went to the names a as premium and quality premium. it hasn't really shown through recently where caught up in the macro stuff. got expensive. coming into this year. at some point down the road maybe that's reasserts itself. >> thank you, dan, for commentary today and your pick. hit airlines jetblue elbowing its way into a merger between spirit and frontier airlines sending a $3. billion unsolicited offer for spirit 37% higher than the frontier offer. here's what was said this morning about this on "squawk on the street." >> when you scratch behind the

surface and you look at what the regulators are trying to do, make sure as result of these combinations fares go down rather than up, we actually believe a jetblue/spirit combination would have a more profound and personal nenlt effect nationwide on lower fares than merger of the ultra low-cost carriers. >> shares of jetblue sharply underperforming in the market. down more than 8%. joining us on the newsline elaine becker, research analyst. wall street doesn't steem to lik this move. do you >> well, we sort of think that the, the merger creates a large airline but the business models are pretty different one is a low-cost airline with a high-cost product, and the other is a low-cost airline way low-touch product. i'm not sure how that's going to work together and one of

criticisms the other is they're both very big in south florida much bigger together than frontier and spirit would be so that's another concern. because i think regulators will look at that and wonder about the competitive situation in that market. which admittedly is quite competitive. >> already there have been democrats that have raised red flags on the spirit/frontier deal are you suggesting that a jetblue/spirit deal would be a tougher pill to swallow for regulators i suspect it would, yes. both companies, if you go back to the february date when the first merger was announced, there were issues with regulators to your point and then you go today and there are issues as well so not 100% certain that either deal will go through we think certainly frontier/spirit makes a lot of

sense. jetblue and spirit i'm not 100% convinced. >> does it say something about the threat to jetblue if spirit and frontier do move forward here >> i think it talks to the industry in general, to that point. four airlines that are -- with the pandemic and cut in capacity are probably closer to 70%, 75% of capacity in the u.s. and the other airlines representing the other 25%. take them out, feed allianz, delta connection, united and the so on probably leaves 20% for about what, six other seven airlines to, what's the right word eat between us divide between us? and i don't know how they can all compete. especially with jetblue where it is new york harbor $7 this morning. elsewhere in the country over

$3.50 almost $4 a gallon a tough competitive situation out there from a cost perspective, and we talked before, sara, you and i, about labor costs going up you're seeing labor costs rising, fuel costs are rising, and fares are not keeping pace with that right now, and i don't know how you get on the other side of the margin in an effort to keep the trends going >> hmm do you stay away from airlines now or stick with some of the bigger, more scaled airlines that can deal with some of these cost pressures >> yeah. i would do that. stay with the, with the airlines that have deep pockets, good balance sheets can focus on paying down debt. obviously no one can return capital to shareholders until after the third quarter just because of the c.a.r.e.s. act but definitely focus on those airlines that are strong from a balance sheet perspective. >> got it.

helaine beck thank you very much. want to hit small caps barclays with a new note small caps underperforming large caps year over year worst margin since the dotcom boom. russell 2,000 continuing underperformance bank of america saying yield curve investigation poses a new risk joining us, head of small and large cap. never have good things to say. caught our attention the yield threat explain. >> incremental risk. saw it fall, turn back positive. obviously instances historically we've had false signals from the yield curve. a lot of debate right now around what the signal it selling us. usually more often than not a signal that can indicate a

recession it coming. we've seen small caps come up following yield conversion tend to underperform large caps usually if that leads to recession. i think what we're watching is what are the other data and indicators telling us right now? and so based on the amalgamation of inputs we're looking at, we would still stay near-term on small caps versus large caps had a tell on equity markets but do think, domestic small caps. services recovery based on consumer activity data a big tailwind for small valuations how much risks are already in the prices that you're seeing small caps really discount a lot of the risks but -- >> 18%, jill they're 18% off highs, where i'm

looking at nasdaq. down 14% off highs s&p down 7%. clearly beaten up harder i think also immune from the strong dollar. threat to multi-nationals. where are valuations given the fact they've underperforms. >> small caps the only side segment trading cheap versus their history on forward pe and relative to large cap trading below covid and prior crisis lows trading at lowest relative multiples ever seen outside of, during the tech bubble so a lot of the risks have been reflected in valuations and you've seen the multiples compress a lot usually when relative valuations are at these levels, it's been a good historical long-term signal for small versus large a multi-year time horizon a good period to invest in small over

large. macro indicators we're watching, looking at ism and mpmi the pick down in the ism, one risk to monitor. meanwhile the market pmi increased in march and that one's beenalities more correlated with small caps recently services recovery. >> yep. >> pricing power we have seen more evidence of pricing power from small caps as of the latest earnings season and seen historically small caps fare well. something to keep an eye on as well this earnings season. >> thank you got to go. about a minute left in the trading day. mike what do you see in internals? quickly. >> negative. nasdaq definitely negative three to one down side insurance versus banks, all financials not alike insurance much more direct beneficiaries of yields without the credit risk and a bounce don't turn that into a longer trade. not great for the market. >> down 1% on the dow heading

into the close dow down 135 points. lower earlier in the session, but still negative reaction, i'd say, to the fed minutes and the plans to shrink the balance sheet. far as what's lurking in the market, utilities, health care, staples, real estate, energy we saw yesterday, same hardest hit all week s&p down 1%. 2.2% on the nasdaq 100 that good it for me on "closing bell." have a good evening. into "overtime" with scott. sara, thanks welcome to "overtime." i'm scott wapner you heard the bell just getting started here. in fact in a few minutes speakics collusively to nancy davis for the latest on market volatility and her best ideas right now. we begin, though, with our talk of your stocks versus an adversarial fed. the kind of main event we haven't seen in more than a de decade what does it mean for your