tv Mad Money CNBC May 5, 2022 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT
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>> it got obliterated yesterday, lyft and yet today it was up i think this three day rule is now in effect. i bought some at the close. >> guy >> phillips 66. >> thank you for watchin my mission is simple to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money. welcome to cramer america. trying to save you money my job is not just to explain days like today. call me, 1-800-cnbc.
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i want you to get used to days like today, where the dow plunges. and yes, the nasdaq goes down almost 5%. 4.99 what's happening is the market is repricing stocks, year stocks on the fly withwall street deciding all stocks are worse worth less anytime a thing called the 10-year treasury ticks down in price and up a yield. i mean it every time and that's what happens in this stage of run-away inflation. frankly, it's the only touch tone to trust, even as it smells real bad and you wish it with were not happening 3.5 year high on the 10-year does that. it's been so long since we had a market like this, that i think many mistakenly believe all fed controlled -- and they could
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lead -- you can't own u.s. bonds here because they keep going down in price. thee guys are losing fortunes because of u.s. inflation. they wanted to take a more aggressive approach. are they want the fed to engineer a recession they want to hear 75 is on the table and he might raise interest rates a full point. they want a riri session and it's not what they got the stock market has always been close-ly related to the bond market they're joined at the hip. except the bond market is more powerful than stocks the bond yields are are goings up, it's because investors are afraid of inflation and don't trust the fed to get it under control. toiv basis points, three triple rate hikes an a powell took off the table today. it's clear these sellers don't believe he can keep it off the table. i have a lot of confidence in jay powell and what's he's doing.
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the bond market doesn't have any confidence now, as my mentor used to come on, when we were at goldman sack ises together, the key to making money, particularly -- and we had a lot of bad days together it was a tough time in the '80s. you probably never heard that before curious. but curiosity helps you a great deal when you're trying to make money. because it forces you to answer certain questions. first, is every company worth less than it was yesterday which is what the stock market is is saying the answer is no if you take your cue only from the bond market, we're headed for a high inflation world that means you should buy stocks that do well they do well on a high inflation slowdown the jimmy carter is scenario think pioneer natural resources. same goes for cotara
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diamond back energy. and you know i love the oils that's my cnbc investing club mantra i love the oils. second, will the russian invasion of ukraine or china's rolling lockdowns last forever of course not. yet, right now stocks reflect a never-ending war and never-ending lockdown. even if china doesn't do anything differently -- we know the lockdowns end after a few months at most once it goes back to normal, and it will. you will see insane rallies from nike and starbucks as for nike, the world-wide sales have tripled without china. but nobody wants to own the stock without substantial chinese business sooner or later, nike sales will rebound. might happen faster if it changes senses and embraces the pfizer, maternau -- pfizer is a
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biontech, which they're just not choosing to use. we know putin can't with come up with something he can spin as a victory in ukraine he can't keep his job and might not keep his life. he's got to find something to say. he'll keep sending troops to ukraine because puling out makes him look weak and that's a death sentence for a dictator. but there are real-world constraints. sooner or later the war will endb with either with an assassination or one side ending with soldiers. third, a curious person would question whether our current bout of inflation is as deeply intrenched as the bears say. in the last week, i've heard of peeks in grains, steel, aluminum, copper, cars, soy and storage. that sounds like a trend to me when only oil and natural gas continue to hit new highs, maybe it's easier to beat than people expect
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if you're curious, you have to wonder if earnings still matter. let's take the case of amd. we thought it was generating high-single digit growth they weren't allowed to talk because of the deal. turns out they're growing at 20%. that's called a surprise yet, a and, d stock has come way down from the highs. you're getting the news for free when you know it's added to earnings, how can you not think is the stock's a buy i know what you're selling you're selling because everyone is selling everything, not because they're selling amd. now, facebook. when facebook hit negtive and you hear they're not hiring or slowing hiring, wall street presumes the company is in trouble. but you can choose among the best engineers in the world. at this point, they're available. why bother choosing junior ones.
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mark zuckerberg can take his pick that's why not a seller. so, on our cnbc investing club call that you must listen to you recognize this is one of the stocks that does get cheaper as it goes lower because the earning power is tremendous. i know averages are trading like everything is over valued. for every negative, there's a company profiting from it. what's are the most inflationary part of inflation? natural gas. who makes the most money cotara energy and i like sempra, a prl company with a major natural gas business couturau's got a 7.5 field i know, i know it's a disgusting, horrible market that rests entirely on the fortunes of one piece of paper the 10-year treasury
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but a curious person asked if there's one piece of paper can really control the future of every company in the world and where is it written the 10-year must go down in price and is up in yield every day where does it say that every unemployment number, like the one we're going to get tomorrow, must remain over heated. and we know the fed will keep hitting the brakes of the economy and they'll be scared to start a business around excess inventory. how can we be so sure he won't raise interest rate ares as aggressively as we need to and there's a good chance we don't get it let's say you own nothing. snow stock at all. you're all in cash wouldn't you be tempted to buy something down here? is is it your lack of cash that makes you feel desperate are you in that much of the wrong stocks
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if you've got enough cash on the sidelines, the market's showing a sale on everything, including great stocks with good yields that are going to beat the earnings the kinds my trust bought today during the club. bottom line, it is so easy to panic. it feels great when you sell everything at that one moment. it's hard to be curious when your head's getting beat you're getting beat over the head by a two by four. curiosity tends to be a better bet. right now it will be buying stocks selectively and not selling them indiscriminately. curiosity might have killed the cat. but it can also make you a fortune. david. >> caller: i was looking at their reports from about a week ago. it's very enticing
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i want to ask your opinion on general motors >> this is at the crux of what i'm talking about. good m. has no dividend, sells at five times earnings and people think it's going to lose a lot of money it's down 32% for the year it won't always not pay a dividend i think that gm, at 39, represents value but it can go to 35. if you can't handle that to 35, then wait until it goes there or don't buy at all panic is not a strategy. i think being curious, being curious about things is is a much better way to riches. a curious mind will be buying stocks selectively, not selling them indiscriminately. the energy space held off amid today's big sell off is it time to look to the oil patch, where are the real value might be i'm eyeing one of the companies that ended in the green. the highest yielding stock on
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the dow. and it's are mowed down scots miracle grow this is the weekend where i'm going to play at my boxes. but it there are analysts who like it and analysts who hate it we got to figure out which one is right so we can make real grown. and shopify dropping 15% what is it saying for the rest of e commerce? is it just the stock market that's angry i'm talking with the company's top brass after the report stay with cramer >> don't miss a second of "mad money. follow @jim cramer on twitter. have a question, tweet cramer, #mad tweets. or give us a call at 1-800-743-cnbc miss something, head to "mad money".cnbc.com.
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i always say there's always a bull market somewhere. and when everybody is freaking out about curb inflation by raising interest rate ares, there's a bull market and in oil and it's obvious that's what worked during the '70s and it's why i keep recommending the best names in the industry look at natural resources. one of the rare stocks that managed to go up today it's well run. it's embraced a base-plus variable dividend policy and incredibly generous to shareholders and got unbelievable properties. this is an amazing environment for pioneer. and paying a $37.38 per share. that's the base payout if they can keep that up, you'll
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bow getting a 13% dividend yield. almost unbelievable when you consider how much the stock has run. i think this one keeps working let's check in with long-time dean of the groups, ceo of pioneer natural resources. welcome back to "mad money." >> jim, great to see you again always great being on the show >> always great having you on the show i was talk toing to a young investor and i said you can get a 13% dividend yield on a stock with high quality, big balance sheet and she said you're making it up. it's not possible. can you explain why, not only is it possible but you're doing it. >> we had a great quarter. over 30% on capital employ and is it's all about changing our strategy, about returning
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capital to the shareholders. keeping production flat to growing 5% over the next several years. and distributing most of our free cash flow back to the investor so, 2 billion free cash flow back to the investor most of it was the cash dividend of about 13% again, it's great to be here it's a great quarter for pioneer and we're excited about our plan we announced this plan two years ago. about half the peers are following us now the high dividend policy. >> your high dividend policy is much higher than everybody els how are you able to beat top of peer group >> we are giving up the higher percent, back to the investor. back to the investor so, that's the reason we're at 13%. our peer groups are giving 50% so, their dividend's 8%. its it's our asset base,
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low-cost structure we're focussed only in the midland basin and abate for balance sheet. so, when you bring it all together, it's arer easy to give out a 13% dividend >> when i met you many, many years ago, that was not the style of pioneer or any other company. what occurred to make you realize you might as elwith be the best yielder in the s&p and go off on days like today? >> i was excited to be the number one s&p dividend paying company today. when i came back three years ago, we received feedback that the plan had to change we went from a production-growth company to a company that kept production and that zero to 5% range. sustainable growth and we developed a free cash flow policy ee have the return cash flow back to the investor
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and most of them really liked the dividend verses buybacks we're still buying back stock. we bought back about a half a billion last two quarters. most of the pay back is in dividends. >> rusty was mention said on the call was mentioned many times and identified you as one of the great operators and told me, look, with just because they give you a big return, doesn't mean they're also not working on esg. you're co 2. intensity is remarkably low. >> yes, if you look at our charts, the permian-basin is one of the lowest in the world we have some of the best targets. 75% reduction by 2030 in meth in a. 50% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2030. we're eventually going to move everything to the grid, drilling, with fracking, compression. that's really our goal
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and we got several exciting projects we're looking to install wind and solar farms on a lot of our land in west texas >> do you care lat what the price of oil is right now in terms of your payout >> not really because we have an interesting chart. we were paying out $17 at $120, we're paying a much higher number. we're always going to pay a dividend our break-even price is $30. >> you put a lot of properties and some people say you might have over paid clearly not only did you not over pay but you must have known these properties were long live. it's astonishing to me, not only how you're all in cost but how many years you're going to be able to pull this off? >> and how do you over pay when you bought them a year and a half ago, when all prices were cheaper. there were great acquisitions.
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we now have a million acres in the midline basin. we dominate the midline basin. us and chevron are the longest producers in the permian we're drilling over 15,000 foot laterals going to 2023 and we have over 1,000 locations. those two acquisitions helped us do that. >> do we have to care about no pack or any of this other stuff when we think about pioneer? >> yeah, no. it's interesting what congress is doing yvl are been advocating for the boyden administration to get over to saudi and improve our relationships. they have the only excess capacity in the world today. maybe a little bit in uae. but saudi has probably a million is and a half barrels a day. we shouldn't do anything to upset opec if anything >> wow well, what can i tell you. when people tell me, jim, i want
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to give up i say have you talked about pioneer? talked about it today. you have taught me a great deal. and now you're the best teacher in the entire industry and the biggest money maker. thank you so much, scott, for everything >> thank you, jim. >> okay. pxd. what can i say 13% yield, unbelievable properties i know it sounds too good to be true but it isn't. it's real. "mad money's" back after the break.
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averages, where we rolled back yesterday's gains and then some. i want to remind you that we're stuck, still, in the middle of earnings season. for more on today's meltdown, tune into tonight's cnbc special report, markets in tur moil at 8:00 p.m and let's get back to it believe it or not, earnings do matter, even in the crazy market and you nide need to be able to evaluate them. make no mistake, they're stocks that work when inflation's on fire these are names you buy confidently when the whole market collapsed like today. that low starts with earnings. with spotting the difference between a struggling business and a thriving one which brings me to a name we all love scots miracle grow you're a gardner you use them
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it's planning season and skauts is a name you see have a ton of questions about. for years, it was a good, solid business and then from 2019 through april are of last year, wall street started treating it as a cannabis plant. stocks surged from 60 to north of 250 reefer madness, if you will. over the past 13 months, they have been obliterated. as investors brace themselves for potentially ugly quarter when squats miracle grow reported tuesday morning, we had a mix set of numbers are and management pulled their full-year earnings forecast. that's a forecast they cut two months ago and like so many others, it was sol ready so beaten down, that overnight the analysts published their takes. see, j.p. morgan upgraded miracle grow but the exact same time down the
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stock cutting the price target in the process two very different reactions to the same quarter fch we love the analyst face-off situations which can help you come to your own conclusions. the market seemed to be siding with the bulls at j.p. morgan yesterday. scots miracle grow jumped 10% and then closed down 6%. what are both sides saying here? who's right? scots miracle grow, sold fertilizer and seed. but then as the state started legalizing marijuana, scots broke down separate results about hydroponic equipment, and that helped fuel the stock's miraculous run the pandemic hit and we couldn't
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geanywhere and we had a lot more time for hobbies like gardening. over the last year, miracle grow has plunged back to earth. live by the bond, die by the bondb with i say and the end of last year, realized the company would be up comparisoneders. it's a pot stock and a covid stock. pots on stock. unlike so many others, scots miracle grow is not just a victim of the wall street fashion show it turned out to deserve to go out of stock because the business has gotten bad. at the same time, serious holes emerge in the hydroponics story. and they've gradually disclosed the cannabis market has become a huge problem we learned hawthorn sales with were down roughly 30% in the third quarter. a month later we learned hawthorn would see declining sales. by early march management
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admitting hawthorn sales would be down 25 to 30% this year. they cut their full forecast for the company. they were talking about 850 to 890 a share. by march, they cut it to 8 bucks. this time they were better than feared although hawthorn was terrific and once again slashed their full-year earnings forecast. management said the $8 number is, quote, likely unastainable are this is terrible but this was a reason to upgrade. stocks come down, the levels are too cheap verses previous earnings listen to this there's nothing particularly working in scots favor at this juncture how about the down grade steeple is still likes the core
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business for scotts miracle grow they're believes in the longer term story but year term the business has gotten too much to stay positive cannabis is awful and for the quarter, some thought miracle-gro could unlock valley and it's no longer a viable option who would want to buy it and scotts has an ugly enough balance sheet. in short, business is bad. there's not much scots can do to make it better i side with the bears at steeple. even the bulls at j.p. morgan don't sound all that bullish while it might seem cheap, the problem is that the earnings forecasts keep coming down, like so many other stocks management does have a hand on how bad it's going to get.
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people use to grow their business the price has been obliterated look at the quarter shopify reported they missed on the key lines, including a 42 cent earnings missed i don't know who was 62. your growth slowed dramatically. long term a good plan. but we have a risk averse market right now. and it wants profitability at all costs. good times are bad let's take a closer look at the president of shopify >> for more about where the company is is heading. carly, there's another time when this quarter would have been just fine. but you had difficult compares because of the obviously covid but when i look at the trend line, if you take out covid, it's going higher. this is a hard one to figure, harley help me. >> it'sall ayes such an honor to be with you. i think at a difficult quarter for the markets generally --
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first of all, we showed a profit of $30 million and grew our two hf year competent annual growth rate by 60% across very important metrics. revenue had a two-year growth at 60%. gmv at 57% and i think -- and i know you and i talk about the next piece. our value proposition, especially in inflationary environment is in parallel our merchant solutions parallel was the highest it's ever been at 1.99% and solutions like capital and payments are the highest and that means we're solving more of their problems so, you said it great. kwb think we were a pandemic story. but we have very much transitioned to a reopening story as they rebalance. and the proof is our total point of sale grew at nearly 80% this past quarter and it continues to gain real market share globally.
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the trust we build we're now using that to help them take other solutions and those that came online now want to use this for off line >> there's no doubt you're the best at it but you just bought deliver. we want to talk about that if we look closely, we think the cash flow is not as good as it used to be, harley and i'm somewhat concerns given the acquisition. please alay any fears i have about negative cash flow and need for money >> let's talk about this because i think we've proven we can operate in any environment with very strong operational discipline and i think that's something you've always called out about our company. weevlg are always bal ngsed growth and profitability and operating discipline should be clear we've been well run in any environment and thoughtful about how weevt funded our growth and allocate capital to date if you look at the history of the company, we've raised
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$7.7 billion in funding. as of march, we had 7.2 billion in the coughers and paid for our investments with growth profits generated by operation we were not born in with venture capital money. i think it's that operating discipline that matters more than ever. >> tell us what deliver does that you couldn't have done yourself or you need >> i did check out your new mescal company and grateful and excited to see it's being powered by shopify >> i was not going to bring it up >> that's okay i do my research as you know but supply chain management fulfillment are some of the biggest challenges they face you know this as a small business owner you have to fumble through a maze of 3 pls and carriers so, we announced shopify f fulfillment network and the goal is to handle the post order
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phase. once the order gets placed, the fulfillment network sends the package directly at the end consumer we've added new inventory balance capabilities simple returns and we created a management system that goes across our warehouses to make it sufficient deliver fulfills already over a million orders it's an asset-like, tech-driven service. and so, yes, it is our largest acquisition ever but it strengthens the fulfillment network and accelerates our path to an end-to-end logistics effort they'll get highly reliable, fast affordable delivery and the best part is they will own the relationship with the end consumer unlike other providers >> that is very clear that's what you need. now, one last thing. fabulous debt.
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you're very candid about things. normalized a percent in retail sales. it goes back to where it was in 2019 aren't you actually ahead of where you were before the. demic started? >> look, the u.s. department of commerce came out with the monthly trade report u.s. online and off line commerce each grooe grew by 11% year on year shopify out paced both those numbers online and off line. and because we built so much trust during covid, helping all these off line retailers come online quickly, now that they're rebalancing and stores are reopening, they're saying please replace our existing point sale system with your system as well. more merchants coming, taking more of our products and we're operating with great operational discipline right now >> do you think there are a lot of companies that would have started but aren't because they're worried about a
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recession? >> one of the things we've noticed about merchants is is they're incredibly rewill havant a lot of people extended their businesses the thing people don't realize is we're millions of merchants but if you considered to be a single merchant, we would be the second largest in america. we're able it get incredible economies of sale on shopping and software leverage we can give to small businesses and that's what we say when we're leveling the playing field and making it easier for them to succeed. >> if you're a growth investor, you have to ride it out. but you know there are people saying build it's athis company it doesn't matter right now. people are trying to figure out how to value i myself don't know how other than to know you're indispensable. i'm trying to put a value on indispensable.
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>> we're behind every consumer's favorite brand and we're trying to build 100-year company we believe being able to adjust profitability verses growth at the right time is important. but we think and we're seeing more people starting businesses on shopify again, the relationship we have to these millions of merchants, we're not just their ecommerce provider we saw 400% increase on merchants selling on places like facebook and instagram and tiktok and google, all powered by shopify the future of retailers everywhere and i think we're the trusted company for entrepreneurs around the world. >> what do you do if you're me and people say jim, the party's over move on from shopify >> we with take long-term approach we're about to celebrate our seventh year an vars ree for the ipo, i was able to get on your show
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but we're a company that believes in building for the long term. we have alevers to adjust and insure we're responsible in how we spend $7.7 billion raised. that speaks volumes, i think >> do any of them say listen, i'm sorry. i've got to wait for another time or do people say i know you'll come back. >> the investors that understand our product, our business model, understand management, they're long-term holders and many have been with us since we went public so, the macro environment is tif klt. but a company can be a covid success story and then transition to a recovery story those are the companies to bet on and i think shopify is unequivocally one of those companies. >> you're not on the bottle but it doesn't matter. you get the job donee been a bee
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lemons. lemons. lemons. the world is so full of lemons. when you become an expedia member, you can instantly start saving on your travels. so you can go and see all those lemons, for less. it is time and then the lightening round is over are you ready? and the lightening michael. >> caller: afternoon, jim.
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>> how are you, buddy? >> i'm doing fine. thank you. so, i recently bought this stock for dividends and over the last month, it has cutback close to my buy in price of $15 and yesterday it had its earnings and the stock took a hit. jim, the ticker is ex 7 buy or hold >> it's down 7%. so, let's just stay away let's go to andy in wisconsin. andy >> caller: hey, green from land of beer. >> i love beer what's going on? >> caller: hey, what's your read on enmo? >> is if you want tech, you just want it. yoko in georgia.
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>> caller: it's yoko from milton and i got to tell you what a depressing day but i've got a deplemau i held your bobby, chevron and made a nice profit but six months ago, i decided to go into the natural gas at $3.25 and now it's $9. so, i bought western midstream partners, wes. >> what a good situation you got horse ends i like that. i like everyone of the pipes this one's got a great yield, really great story sean in california sean >> how's it going, jim >> not bad how are you? >> i'm are doing as good as i can be, consid issering i'm looking at the market. >> what's going on >> i'm calling because of a stock. you said the chairman of the
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company is quite possibly the most brilliant man you've had on your show and previously called the stock a buy, buy, buy. i want to know what you think of ticker sj -- >> i know? erick from, he is brilliant and they're one of the few spacs is up you should read the deck they're doing well and i don't say that highly. the stock was up today what does that say he's the real deal sebastian and i. sebastian. >> caller: booyah, jim >> booyah. >> caller: up by 21% year to date >> because they are the best at what they do and it will continue to be a buy and a 7% yield and i like it. david in tennessee david. >> hey, how you doing, jim >> i am doing well i'm volunteering what's happening >> it's a blessing just to get to talk to you, brother.
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appreciate everything you to >> you're very kind. thank you. >> anyway, i was just curious about u.s. steel >> if you own a steel company, which i don't recommend, you're going to own u corp and i think you're going to go down a little bit more and then buy it it's got to go lower i want to talk to edward in maryland edwithward >> caller: yes, jim. this is dr. edwards. my wonderful wife, mary of 49 years. retired pharmacist, living in laurel, maryland we watch "mad money. we have your book. and out of israel, kiva pharmaceutical >> look, i know them well. i can't say that they deserve that accolade, frankly i would prefer to see you in something like a j&j, which is splitting up and going to bring more value
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clinton in florida >> caller: hello, jim. this is clinton from florida where the choppers fly in. my young son made a lot of money on gamestop and amc back in the day. he tells me now i call that luck he calls it skill. he tells me to look into a company called asd space mobile. >> well, he's got the edge on me i do not know the company but we'll do homework on it. sounds like my kind of speculative company for young people and that's the conclusion of the lightening round it's an entire trading experience. with innovation that lets you customize interfaces, charts and orders to your style of trading. personalized education to expand your perspective. and a dedicated trade desk of expert-level support.
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♪ with the real pandemic please stand up. please stand up. every day we find out another company has done more business trading during the high of the pandemic doesn't have the staying power now that the world has more or less gone back to normal i listened to a conference call withetsy and learned they did not create a whole new market. instead it's a tree that gets trimmed because it got too close thopower lines those that got this -- who a thought this thing could keep working got their heads blown off. -you look at etsy stock, the
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darn thing peeked late last year and sunk to 109 yesterday before it plunged here's the real issue. despite that hideous decline, etsy still sells for 36 times earnings and is it's earnings are expected to be down this year. if you're trying to figure out how much you should pay for the stock in this environment, that's not enticing to the big institutional money managers they say it's impossible to figure out and i don't buy stocks unless they have good dividends it's a no-man's land and in a horrible mean market, when you're going to get shot to pieces, there's e bay, similar story. we learned the most actively bought and sold items are trading cars that's quintessential lockdown stuff. might as well try to make money on trader cards. as we get further away from the
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worst stage of the pandemic, we know zoom, video and peloton were pandemic plays. what we didn't realize is none of them took their covid money and used it to dump something big. the most alarm rg the streaming lays the fact netflix hit a wall, shows you board people stuck at home gravitated to anything online and that's no longer the case. i think netflix is a casualty of booking holdings told us last night. they're seeing an acceleration of travel a. the more time traveling, less you need netflix same for amazon. shopping online is much less compelling when you can do anything else. and if you don't need to stream, then you don't need roku or hbo max. and it's hard to find any habit from the pandemic that we're continuing with. in part, because we hated the darn pandemic and we don't want to be reminded of life under
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lockdown it seems like we're visiting the donner pass in winter. hard pass. while the disinfecting wipes went through the roof at the height of covid and came back to earth. it didn't fall back to where it was before the pandemic because a lot of us are still germophobes. i think that shopify, is a survivor and will be a thriver, as is resolved from the sj, which has been resolved to be profitable i have no idea what metrics to use when there's a pioneer or devyn or plano industrial with a 4 to 5% dividend because the stock has fallen so much you got a bigger yield because the stock's greater. other than the vanishingly rare exception is we got stick of this stuff it seems like people associate them with darker days of the pandemic
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afraid of your own shadow. they weren't covid stocks so much as they were nothing better to do stocks no wonder they're getting killed because they have places to go and thing toz do i loik to say there's always a bull market somewhere. i'm jim cramer see you u rrrrmomototoow.m"mad money. the ne"the news with shepard sm starts now . stocks plummet and recession fears soar i am shepard smith, this is the news on cnbc wall street in turmoil. >> down more than a thousand point on the dow. >> oil prices up, nasdaq down 5%. >> uncertainty roared. what the market selloff means for 401(k)s, economy, and inflation. unspeakable horror at the bombed-out steal plant in au ukraine. >> that continued bombardment by russian air strikes in mare yoem. >> the new movements in putsen's war, and the pope weighs i
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