>> absolutely. thank you. leslie, a bit of a mixed picture in the markets the s&p is negative to the tune of almost .5%. the nasdaq flat. facebook, for example, perhaps a name that will be mentioned on "techcheck" because we're done on "squawk on the street." "techcheck" starts now good wednesday morning welcome to "techcheck. i'm carl quintanilla with deirdre bosa and jon fortt today, is netflix finally cheap? we'll break it down and discuss whether the stock is a buy at these levels is roku a real acquisition target more on why that may or may not make sense for the streamer. remember when china was called uninvest i believe you might be surprised the look at the performance versus u.s. we'll start with a look at valuations and where to find opportunity in a down market dom chu has that for us.

>> this is a time when a lot of traders and investors are seeing if there are value metrics becoming more attractive, at least on a relative basis, given the fact that the s&p 500 has pulled back the way it has but showed the modest bounce we're seeing right here at these levels can't really see that here but with the s&p 500 it is a place where you can find some value. take a look at one of the screens that the team over at cnbc pro put together with regard to trying to fight those types of stocks. if you look at the s&p 500, they look for forward p lshe ratios less than 17.5 also, how many of those are at least 50% or more below their five-year average forward price to earnings ratio. and can show or expected to show at least earnings growth or at most, or at worst a modest decline of around 5% or so in earnings expectations.

you put all that together, only nine stocks pass that. exxon eog, also home builders in there. the netflix trade you mentioned off the top of the show is intriguing for many right now. if you take a look at netflix stock, the drop we've seen over the course of the last few months here from the record highs is about 71% below those levels now with that being said, the valuation seems a little more compelling, at least on a relative basis if i show you the forward price to earnings ratio over the course of the last year, no surprise we've seen a decline over the course of the last 12 months to where we are right now, roughly between 17 and 18 a big move higher, netflix today right now, 3%, pushing that a little bit higher. if i was to tell you guys, deirdre, jon, carl, that when you look at the average, this chart shows about a 55% peak in forward p/e. over the last five years, the average has been closer to 67,

68 times expectations. to give you an idea of how deep the valuation has gotten, it may be expensive to some people, but 18 times from forward earnings, it's well below the last five years. >> dom, thanks for breaking that down for us. i guess the question is, what is the right valuation. business insider reporting there have been discussions within roku about netflix acquiring the company. some saying that deal is highly unlikely it gives a discussion of whether m&a is how netflix will return to growth. let's bring in julia boorstin. you hear a lot of sentiment, i guess the core question, why would netflix get into a war on two fronts it's already fighting streaming. >> i do have to say a source close to the situation tells me

there's no truth to these acquisition rumors i just want to put that out there. no comment from the company, but i did hear that from a source. i think the key thing here is why are we hearing these rumors? why would we hear the speculation. of course, roku shares are down about 80% since late july of last year. you know those employees would love to have a savior situation with netflix also, we have to remember that roku spun off from netflix these are companies that do have very old ties and, of course, as net one reason we've heard so much negativity is because this would be such a big acquisition for netflix and also expose them to so many other challenges >> you mentioned, julia, that roku was sort of built inside of netflix. i don't know who would be looking for the savior here, netflix or roku. anthony wood, every time we talk to him, seems comfortable with

their model, with their strategy going forward. to me it seems like the market is more bearing out roku strategy right now than it is netflix. when i look at the question is netflix cheap here the question is by what metrics and compared to what there's a lot of stuff cheap compared to the valuation of where it was trading a year ago. does netflix really deserve half the market cap of disney when you consider disney has parks, networks and movies and figure out how to make it work. netflix doesn't have any of that. >> fundamentally should value be valued like a media company or tech company as netflix becomes more of a media company, investing in its own content, going into the advertising business, it seems more and more like a media company. to go back to this question of why we're talking about roku, we are increasingly focused on how netflix is going to be introducing its ad-supported service. there has been speculation they

would be making some acquisitions, but more around gaming, small more incremental acquisitions and partnering with outside companies as well. >> it's interesting, julia, for years, laura martinality needham says netflix needs an ad-supported tier. today she writes netflix will not be a streaming winner unless it adds sports and news, buys a deep film and tv library and enhances bundling. a little moving the gold post today. >> moving the gold post and saying netflix really has to become a media company with all those investments that the traditional media giants have. once you talk about that, you have to return to that valuation question here. deirdre, as we look at this rumor, even though my source tells me there's no truth to it, you have to understand why people like to talk about it so much. >> why employees would be excited over such a prospect we'll also talk the netflix side

and what it needs to do. julia, thanks so much. staying on netflix, our next guest says based on the stock's recent struggles, maybe the business model is not as attractive as once thought michael nathan son has a neutral rating on netflix as well. good to have you back. >> good morning. thanks for having me >> let's do some housekeeping. do we put this roku thing completely in the trash bin? >> i think the last discussion is pretty much what i would have said i know why people at roku would want this to happen. i don't know why netflix would do it. put that aside nothing something we want to act on today. >> where do you think they do stand? this needham note talking about the other things they need to do makes the added point that they believe free has the biggest hand, as laura martin writes as a result, you're looking at a lot of avod winners relative to

svod winners, for example. >> basically you want a dual revenue stream it's hard to keep pushing up price for subscription-only services every other company has two revenue streams. that's how cable was built netflix needs to do that we've been saying that for a long time as well. that pivot is going to be hard we don't know how they'll price the ad-supported tier. there's a lot of details where i don't support the idea of, hey, it's cheap enough now. we don't know how to model this transition because there's so many moving pieces. >> it seems to me the argument for netflix as a technology company is dramatically damaged, not because its technology has gotten worse but because other media company technology has gotten better. the idea of a moat they had based on the data, based on the interface doesn't seem to be bearing out because, hey, disney plus is pretty good. we'll talk about our company

comcast and peacock and whatnot, but some of the things netflix was insisting of doing, putting out all the episodes at once, all that is being challenged by competitors in a way that seems to knock it down, right? >> that's been my issue forever, right? i'm a media analyst and look to that as a media model. the way nasdaq was valuing it made no sense to me. it's a media company, advertising, sports, ad salespeople, maybe firing people, moving to theatrical windows. nasdaq held by growth investors but it's a media company there are media rules companies have to follow and media valuations that's been our consistent complaint for years and makes me happy that people are now asking the right questions about it what is this thing actually? it's a media company. >> what does netflix need to do?

can it grow its business into the next phase organically, or does it need to look at an acquisition, not many people are enthusiastic about roku, but roblox has a 20 billion dollar market cap netflix has said and been experimenting in gaming. >> i don't really think that's the direction that i would go in i would look to buy a library, look to buy another studio >> so stick to its core? >> it's a media company, right they're fighting one battle in one war now. going into gaming opens another category of competitors. i'm not sure what their edge is there, right i also think the question, deirdre, how much are they spending, and what's the roi of that spend are they overspending? why make 80 movies a year? it makes no sense to me. make 20 great movies i think they need to come back and revisit how they've gotten here and maybe it's a business

that spends less, has an ad tee, adds some sports to it, another library. it has to change from where it is today that's clear. >> that's one thing you've written about in recent weeks, michael, this idea of reining in your spending. if you were to do it, there's no guarantee rivals would match the reining in it's at the end of reservoir dogs and a triangle with guns and no one wants to put their gun down as a result the business model does need to be rethought. >> carl, hence, we have neutrals on all those that we're talking about today. the only buy is on fox, which fox is not playing in this business it feels like exactly what you said, you have too many people competing for what's a fixed amount of time, and just the supply and demand of great shows and fixed time and now it looks like fixed wallets it's just a terrible structure

it really is you need consolidation you need people to exit the space and behave more rationally that's going to happen at some point. we don't know when. >> all right what brings it about nothing we're going to solve today. really insightful stuff lately on the space, michael. as always, our thanks, michael nathanson. still to come, amazon's former consumer chief has a new ceo gig. where he's headed might sound familiar that's next. "techcheck" is just getting started.

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time now for gut check on chinese tech you saw some of the names at the top of the leader list moments ago. it wasn't long ago that the space was called uninvestable facing regulatory headwinds. careful coming this a comeback, but the k-web is out performing the qqq on the year. china recently authorizing 60 new video games after temporarily freezing approvals last year, introducing new policies to fuel recovery in the

wake of the lockdowns in beijing. standing to gain from the stimulus, alibaba, nio and jd.com john, it's usually when everyone starts to get bullish again. you've got to be careful with these names. >> indeed. now, major news for flexport dave clark, the outgoing ceo of amazon's worldwide consumer business is going to join flexport as ceo this september flex porlt founder and ceo ryan peterson joins us now. ryan, welcome. first of all, my understanding, you guys are going to share the ceo title for six months and then you take the title executive chairman i was able to speak with dave on the phone last night he's taking some time off in hawaii he said he was looking for a ceo

gig. you were looking for a chief operating officer. you came to an understanding is that right? >> exactly i couldn't be more thrilled right now, honestly. a great day for us i was not looking for a ceo job. i'll stay working at flexport. but what flexport needs to get to the next stage is to be the world's best operations company. global logistics is all about predictability, reliability. dave is probably the best in the world. so when i realized i had the opportunity to hire him, it was like a dream i'll be able to learn from work, work with him. i'm all about growth and creative ways to scale the business we've got to be operationally, relentlessly improving ourselves. ryan, you and i talked in depth about a year ago you said that financially you're ready to be public, but all of these dislocations in the

freight industry, the high prices weren't going to last, so you were looking for maybe a more stable trajectory things it seems have changed since then given that demand has remained strong, your revenue has continued to go up it seems like your vision has expanded give me another take now on flexport over the next three to five years and the road to going public >> well, i think with dave coming on board in five years, flexport is going to be known, hands down as the world's best supply chain company that's something dave and i discuss a lot. we're going to build the best execution for operators, tech-enabled global trade. that's going to being a huge market regardless what happens with trade whether containers are up or down, it's a massive market we've seen ipos from last year get crushed. i'm happy that we're private and not getting distracted by that

we managed to raise a large round of capital at the end of last year, plus in q1 of this year we're well-founded, we're profitable, in a really great place. i think we'll be one of the reference assets that comes out. there's going to be some dislocation, ugliness for companies that aren't well financed and don't have a great business model like flexport does. >> you made that point this morning, saying you guys are profitable a quick question is that net income profitability, or is that another measure? >> yeah, free cash flow, net income profitability, yes. >> flexport got its sport -- i spoke to you four years ago, kind of the anti amazon. you looked to customers that id the on the necessarily want to hand over their data to an amazon you have war by parker and all birds and the likes of them. have you moved up the chain? who is your wig guest customer now? who do you want to go after with dave clark at the help and his

experience >> we serve a lot of amazon merchants. we don't see ourselves as anti amazon at all. we try to make it easy for people who sell through amazon to get their goods delivered through fba. we don't position ourselves that way at all we're not anti anybody really. we want to build the best global logistics. we are working with some of the biggest companies in the world fortune 100 kpoocompanies, bridgestone, georgia pacific as well as many others that don't have permission to share because the data is so sensitive, that we don't always get permission we work with some of the best companies in the world, household names that everybody would know. >> i think you also said recently you're looking to be -- you're already, you say, the best way for companies to place orders to their factories, get goods delivered by air freight, ocean freight, truck or rail what do you see your role as

being technologically in those areas? more and more you see companies like sam sara coming out using sensors in trucks, various ways of realtime tracking, where goods are, giving that data to help make sure that companies are very well aware. how deep do you think flexport is going to get involved in that ecosystem from here? >> the fundamental problem in supply chain is it is a chain, meaning there's many companies on a single shipment going from, let's call it vooem vietnam, into the middle of the united states, you'll have at least ten companies playing some role in that transaction it's a very hard problem how do you get data to and from these companies about what's happening in the real world. that's where flexport's unique proposition comes in we build technology for the operators out there, that's trucking companies we've got over 10,000 drivers available for dispatch with a mobile app for doing port and airport pickup and drop-off, so

getting freight picked up. we integrate with asset owners on the ocean care yeah we have warehouse, customs brokers in 112 countries it's about how do you get data to flow seamlessly in a world where goods where transferring seamlessly often there's no system to integrate with we've got to build grid technology to help companies run better operations. unlike other software, ours comes with revenue think there's a great proposition for asset owners whether that's truck, ocean, warehousing or other forms of logistics assets. >> brian, thank you for joining us on "techcheck." dev clark starting september 1st as co-ceo and ryan transitions to executive chairman. a development out of microsoft. microsoft hollow lens co-creator alex kipp man set to redine,

after allegations of inappropriate behavior toward female employees, including unwanted touching and screening a vv video that made some people uncomfortable. kit man and the company mutually designed to part ways adding he will stay on for another two months to help with guthrie's reorganization plans carl speaking of microsoft, the company expanding partnership with docusign and integrating tech into the own software apps. you can see what docusign has done on that today the dow is down 55 we're back in a moment another crazy day? of course—you're a cio in 2022. but you're ready. because you've got the next generation in global secure networking from comcast business. with fully integrated security solutions all in one place.

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do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly

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will -- the ceo joined jim on "mad money" last night to talk about the broader m&a vat gee and how the company is balancing cash with deal making. >> the way we think about why we issue dividends even as we keep on a strategy of acquiring great for assets is simply because we feel -- it's a long-term investment, as a long-term play, we feel that we are rewarding them as we progress, as we advance which is why we put aside half our free cash flow as dividends and the other half, in return, to do the next deal and grow the business. >> stock still down on the year, but outperforming the broader

semiconductor index. in retrospect, the m&a strategy and diversification strategy looks pretty brilliant. >> he's been able to pull it off where i think you can argue many others have not been able to he ended that sound bite by saying they let us do the next deal you've got to wonder, jon, what does that mean is he going to double down valuations aren't as cheap as they were a few weeks from now there could be more targets out there for him. >> this is tricky stuff. the reason why i think so many people are cheering this vm ware move, they're talking about hoc tan just as they used to about eller son. you've got players like marvel doing very well competing against broadcom and some ofth core businesses. there are questions about the

integration. he's being given the benefit of the doubt because he's executed so well to this point. >> yeah. they've had some practice on that front we'll see how it goes. when we come back, the end of retail trading as we know it? that's next. stay with us

i'm contessa brewer. here is your cnbc news update.

an armed man arrested near the home of supreme court justice brett kavanaugh. the court says only that the suspect made threats against kavanaugh. but law enforcement officials tell nbc news the man had a handgun, knife and pepper spray and told police he was there to kill the conservative justice. former film producer harvey weinstein will face two indecent assault charges in london. the alleged incidents involved one woman now in her 50s in the summer of 1996. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is urging american kpoens to shut down any operations in russia and move them to his country instead. he spoke this morning by video linkup to the yale ceo summit in new york deirdre, back to you. the heads of global exchanges trading desk, spin tech are gathering at the global exchange conference. our bob pisani joining us from the conference we just heard from galaxy

digital. he says it may be a taste of what's to come >> it's very interesting he had some very important comments about bitcoin and whether or not it was going to bottom or not. he was asked about that. he said bitcoin will turn as soon as the fed flinches he said there's no fear bitcoin is not going to remain a real macro asset. the big story here everybody here from the crypto community react to the senate bill introduced yesterday that would give primary authority to regulate crypto to the cftc. the crypto community in attendance universally has been applauding this. here is what mike november grath had to say about that bill. >> wildly positive, three cheers for the two female senators from

either side of the ail it's bipartisan. i think the bill laid out pretty much what the industry would like, which is just transparency and clarity. is it going to get passed? no, it's not it's a great starting point for the negotiation and for the discussion >> as you can see, the crypto community wants the cftc to be their primary regulator. they think it's a smaller organization, more sympathetic to them. they've really showered on the head of the sec, gary gensler who will be speaking here in an hour he's not approved the bitcoin atf. novogratz said it's crazy they had not approved it. >> maybe a sigh of relief that he's not going to be the one potentially making the rules one thing he is looking at that he's been quite vocal about which is payment for overflow, so controversial with retail

investors. what do you think we'll hear from him regarding payment for order flow you talked about this in the past is he looking for a political win or an actual win for retail investors. break it down for us >> i think the problem is for payment for order flow, the retail investor has never had it better there are zero dollar commissions out there. the cost of trading has gone to practically zero gensler has been very critical about that hedoesn't like the fact that there are a few wholesalers that potentially control the business and he thinks some of the brokers who sell it may have conflicts of interest because you go to the person offering them the most money for the order flow i think gensler today is going to propose some system whereby we have an auction for the retail order flow rather than just have a few wholesale market makers that are controlling that that may be feasible but the question is can he really show that the retail

investor is being dramatically harmed and proposing the big change in the trading system would be fairly significant. i think the industry is probably going to push back seriously against them. >> you're already hearing comments from the likes of virtu ceo this may have unintended consequences is payment for order flow the problem or is it the ease, retail investors have been able to make these quicker trades versus long-term investments we talked so much about a robinhood that throws confetti on the screen to encourage you to do more trade if you change the way the payment for order flow works, does that get at that root problem? >> no, it doesn't really it's exactly what you said you're sitting in a bar, your friends, and you have one phone up and another phone -- one phone that's sitting there with draftkings and another phone there with robinhood and you're making a bet on the giants game on one hand and making the bet on crypto or ibm on the other

phone. what's the difference? to a lot of people there isn't of course, as you note, there is a difference one is just investing in trading and the other is gambling. can you make the distinction that's a problem a lot of people have including gary gensler with the system he's not addressing that particular problem here. he has been critical of robinhood. erasing the lines between gambling and investing and confusing everybody in the process. >> bob, in the longer term, maybe a year or two years, do you think the trend is that retail investors are going to have to pay for trades they won't get this commission-free trading. what does that do in the long run as well? does that discourage retail investors from getting to the market in the first place where they may be treating it more like a casino in the beginning at least that gets them into the market in the long term which is something that pretty much

everyone agrees is ultimate agood thing. >> if i had to guess, i would guess this proposal as i think it's being formulated is unlikely to go through i do think they'll get more disclosure, for example, the broker who is doing this might have to disclose exactly what the cost is for payment for order flow it's not clear right now it's obviously, deirdre, very small amounts of money the most important thing is the direction of the market and staying invested that's what people need to be aware of long-term investing, this is not that sfaft for people who do an awful lot of trading, it nay be a little more important my sense is payment for order flow is not going to go away zero dollar commissions is not going to go away, but you might get more disclosure as to what the actual real costs are. >> we know you'll bring us the updates from chair gary gensler. bob pisani, thank you so much. getting a check on another chip company western digital reaching the

settlement with elliott and says it will consider splitting the company into two separate businesses we'll keep you updated on how that story evolves afwhen we fid out more after the break, spotify with interesting comments on churn. that's coming up next.

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this is how. airtable. welcome back is there a comeback in smaller enterprise cloud names

a lot of growth software has been crushed in this year's tech selloff. common to see year-to-date losses of 40%, 60% or more but if you've been watching closely like, of course, we have, some have been showing signs of life. zoom, data dog, docusign, up between 5 and 26% so far for the month of june. should investors trust the rebound, those stocks are now 30, 45% off their 52-week lows the fed is going to raise rates further and there are no shortage -- there is no shortage in the macro headwinds that they face we're going to speak with docusign ceo dan springer later this week for clues. how he's looking at things, how he's expanded the partnership with microsoft carl, just a few weeks ago people were saying, if it doesn't have profits, stay away from it. not everybody stayed away. >> that's true take a name like coupe pa.

the guidance was disappointing some of the names have fallen. in the last two or three weeks have just short of flat lined. i wonder if they really have found longer term support. >> look at okta, up 25% alone. this is a company still losing money, still growing very quickly, but investors started to buy into that long-term story. is it a dead cat bounce? are we going to see them continue to keep these gains, head further lower as some of our best tell us, that this could be a bear market rally spotify is hosting the first investor day since going public in 2018. julia is back with us. what have we heard so far? >> spotify shares up about 5.5% as the company lays out its physician for building a platform with multiple verticals, teasing to other opportunities. the ceo saying the business is

doing well the music business is doing much better than you think. he noted that monthly subscriber return has declined by 30% over the last four years, also explaining the lower growth margin results spotify has had, s talking about the spotify machine which they'll now apply to the third vertical of audio books, their pending acquisition they see a $70 billion annual opportunity in audio books with margins above 40% as they take on the only real player in the space which is, of course, amazon when it comes to podcast xing, they're not yet profitable but they do see between 40% and 50% gross margin potential saying they're exploring other new verticals and looking for opportunities to deploy their

playbook and personalization technology he wasn't ready to tell us what those other verticalsjulia, wheg about crazy numbers, talent deals, the joe rogans a few years ago or just a year ago, do you think we'll continue to see that as the macro environment changes, as investors recommend different things >> based on what i was just listening to in this investor day presentation, they believe the deals are worth it they talked about how joe rogan is the most popular podcaster in the world despite the fact he's exclusive to spotify i think there may not be as many people left to make deals with this is clearly an area they're investing in and also doing things like having the video component to podcasts. podcasts aren't just audio anymore. >> a lot of people don't know there is that video component. i stumbled upon it myself. thanks, julia. >> meantime, throughout the month of june, we're celebrating

pride month. here is francesca ceo andrew clark. >> it's more importantthan eve to celebrate pride month pride is the moment for us to stand up and represent our community while standing alongside other minorities in a celebration of the defense of diversity and equality in this country. pride is happy, pride is positive, but pride is serious and pride is necessary do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even

a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have $100,000 or more of life insurance, you may qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit coventrydirect.com to find out if your policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance.

smartsheet reporting a beat on revenue and billings that's got the stock down about 5.5% so far in early trade even as management expects break-even free cash flow joining us smartsheet ceo mark nader. you're in this category of software, enterprise software, up start that the market has been punishing a bit recently. your growth overall seems pretty solid. tell me what demand looks like as the economy seems to be slowing in some ways >> good to see you again, john it was a very good kwaurer in both performance growing north of 40% year on year and seeing

record pipelines what we're seeing in the market today is companies are trying to derive more values from the teams they have. yes, they're looking to invest more but also trying to drive more yield what we do is two things we help teams at the edge of the business work more work more efy and manage digital assets more effectively. it really comes in a couple forms. it is helping people within business teams derive better processes, programs, and also all of the assets acquired over months and years, what do they do with the assets that's where asset management comes in we see strong demand we are at three quarters billion of revenue, growing north of 40%. this year we guided to break even cash flow, sets us up for future years. >> tell me about the conservative guide you said you're not seeing macro issues but cautious in the guide nonetheless. what led to that what are you doing on costs

internally, pace of hiring, maybe marketing even in this environment. >> we have beaten raise on the top line, improved our forecast on the free cash flow, and i think the market was a bit surprised by in a tight labor market us having record hiring in r&d and sales in the first quarter. that's something we will be ingesting, digesting in q2, but we improved that margin forecast for the remainder of the year. couple areas we are looking to be smart how we manage investments is on the discretionary side and those are things that are not impacting to customers but things like travel, internal travel. those are things that are easy to control the throttle on and doesn't effect the outlook of business from a growth standpoint. >> last time you and i talked i asked you about this, want to press you on it again, in economic times like this, the larger players, microsoft, et cetera, tend to simplify things

offer package deals to squeeze out smaller guys what's your strategy to prevent that eating into growth as bigger players with money to spend, try to offer that >> you look at the largest consumer, north of $5 million a year, started paying us less than $5,000 a year it is hard to squeeze something that starts so small when we acquire thousands of customers in a quarter, sub $2,000 per year, not much squeezing to take place. and demand from teams to work more effectively is absolutely present. this is a market that single digits penetrated, while the big enterprise software providers selling to i.t. in large capital amounts are operating a different altitude we come in, see success, and as we demonstrate success and value, companies are growing very quickly we have one of the top net dollar retention rates at 133%

with almost -- it shows the ability to start small and grow at a significant scale. >> when you think about limits to remote work, from the plaur's point of view, what will be the argument, tighter labor market, something regarding on boarding or culture, what would keep companies from saying this continue to the extremes >> i think you hit it on the head, carl it is that ability to on board quickly. we don't have the luxury of being shoulder to shoulder i am in the office today, most aren't the ability to get software managed at the end point and demonstrate value, that's what companies are looking for. yes, they still do huge projects, but trying to figure out how to navigatethis new world. it is the space we're in now you see the category one of the fastest growth categories in enterprise software today.

>> thank you with the stock off lows, down less than 5% >> follow and subscribe to our podcast, listen anytime, anywhere tech check is back in just a moment

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welcome back one more thing before we go. check out shares of affirm underperformed with a 15 target, 40% down side from here. they're concerned about path of profitability, growing competition in the buy now pay later space. something we talked about monday >> i think vast majority of people talking about it lumped the category into single bucket and that's fundamentally lazy. affirm is different. from the beginning doesn't matter if it is a six month or four year transaction, you have to underwrite, look at a person's capabilities of paying that back and if they can't,

then you shouldn't lend money. >> talked about the new entry competition from apple interesting piece as well from bloomberg about the securititization packages getting more expensive fo for affirm as people pay more attention to credit risk. >> glad we have a real market back there's been pain in the investor sense in the past several weeks and months but this is where you make your not actually bets because you're not gambling any more necessarily but you make your projections where to put your money based on what can grow. smart sheet is a great example affirm, a lot of analysts, not this one in particular put out what the price action has done already, price goes up, raised their price. not necessarily because it makes sense but just because they sort

of have to i don't know if you believe max levchin has a track record knowing about digital payments and made good bets, maybe you can buy it >> what did you and jim say, putting lipstick on a pig. harsh but true every company ceo will say they're different. he was first to the space before it was a movement. he pioneered buy now, pay later, part of the paypal mafia he knows how this works. you see a lot of other companies jumping on this trend because consumers, younger ones, are looking for buy now pay later versus a credit card >> something to watch in weeks to come. finally, we began the hour talking roku, it is still up 12%, almost 12.5 first peak above the 50 day. barely got there back in april or march we'll watch that even though there's a lot of

skepticism about m and a activity. >> a lot of skepticism surprising to see that up that much jon was saying, this is the market we're in, it has been less volatile, shocking to see 12%, carl. >> overall, middling session south of the flat line vix is interesting, too. keep an eye of that, south of 24 let's get to the judge and the half all right, carl, thanks so much welcome to the halftime report scott wapner rally and risk and the questions for investors. can stocks continue their climb back or are headwinds simply becoming too great we discuss and debate with the investment committee today joining me steve weiss, pete najarian, joe ter november a, carrie firestone. nasdaq positive by more than 17. dow and the s&p 500 negative russell negative, ten year hanging at 3%.