orman, of morgan stanley saying basically he thinks he has raised his odds of a refresh session from 30% to 50%. it is kind of a coin toss, other executives have been more muted about their concerns as well, but it will be interesting to see what the results suggest in terms of this severe economic scenario. >> obviously, everyone attentive to about the capital return question, appreciate it, we will watch for that tomorrow and that does it for overtime today. fast money begins right now. right now, telling congress he is strongly committed to bringing down inflation, he hopes the rate hike does not push the economy into a recession. we will dig into that and how it will impact the market. plus, the meta-verse push, ceo, mark, going one-on-one with jim cramer, right now, we will have a sneak peek of the exclusive conversation. also, we got to spend some time with him in the meta-verse, we

are ready to break down the big bet. why the desk is warning that you should think twice before buying shares. i am on the desk tonight. dan nathan, and steve, mark is unable to hold on for a second day of games today ending the day slightly lower after the chairman, testified this morning. the tao of nearly 250 points, closing down a 10th of a percent, we will get all of the market action later on in the show but we start off with a news alert for the company formerly known as facebook. sitting down for an exclusive interview with mark zuckerberg. let's listen to what he had to say just moments ago. >> the meta-verse is this broad thing, it is not just virtual and augmented reality. those will be some of the new major computing platforms that need to get invented for this,

but it is also i think going to be the next kind of most immersive and rich way that people want to express themselves across social media. it kind of goes across everything that we do and will be a big theme over the next decade. >> $10 billion last year to grow its meta-verse business but shares have been cut nearly in half since the company announced its new focus, so when will this investment start paying off? why should we believe mark zuckerberg? >> well, because at times, it has appeared that they were leaders at least in the social media space , facebook has legitimacy because there are many times we actually didn't believe they would fight through very difficult peers including credibility dynamics and privacy issues and socials, so to me the issue here is the so far we are out ahead of so many other companies that i would also think, rising google investing in the meta-verse in this capacity who seemingly they are going to toe with why aren't we hearing about tiktok? this whole hey we are going to invest for the future, there is an expression in investing,

you have to be able to eat while you dream. right now i don't think facebook investors are eating too well. i think they have indigestion. the evaluation reflects not only some sense that there is a locality in their business, but we have been talking about facebook and it has been underperforming, it has been a risk, i think there has been a management credibility risk into the stock for a long time. >> it is down 2%, so at this point, you have to believe in that future, you have to believe that outside that we are seeing now that the business is in a fundamental way, strong, even if things like targeting will be much more difficult to do for the future. >> this is a good start. mark sucker berg sitting down with jim cramer and really explaining about what his vision is going forward. we know cheryl had just left, she is still on the board for a little bit but this is going to

be his management team to reshape and kind of re-envision what this company is. let's not forget, this company has 3 billion monthly active users. they will do $125 billion in sales this year. i think it is important to note, 60% from the all-time high, it was nearly $1 trillio , last year in 2018, the stock sold off 40% and in 2020, it sold off about 40%. think about what the revenue base has done since 2018, go from $55 billion to $125 billion , what you just mentioned last year, that was certainly a hit to the story as the company pivots but is trading 11.5 times next year's expected to grow earnings and sales again 50% or so, with 80% or so gross margins, that is about as cheap as you will find in this market with that sort of monopoly. >> in terms of the spend and what they are making. >> what i am looking at, for a

company like this, seven, that is extraordinary. obviously the balance sheet is you know, 30+ billion in net cash, you know, i think that to me, mark zuckerberg deserves the benefit of the doubt because we always talk about the major things that the company has made, mobile earlier on. the instagram purchase , which was a complete home run, i don't know what to make of it, really. it seemed like it was a long time coming. i don't know how to think about that. i do think they are getting very much penalized for this spend, and yet getting no value that, getting no value that they will make something of it. i don't think that is entirely fair. however, i have said that for a while. i think it is ridiculously

cheap. i am surprised that you think it is ridiculously cheap, dan. maybe ridiculous isn't the word to use. >> that is shocking. >> if the consensus estimates which have come down dramatically for this year, if they are able to now with a stock down 60%, if things look achievable, the stock is going to really work for the next year or two. >> i hope that in the interview, which the pull interview will be at 6:00 pm. we only had a snippet because it is basically going on right now. that we actually hear about what it is about the meta-verse and how they plan to monetize that. the meta-verse is cool, it seems cool, it seems like it has a lot of possibility. if it is 10% of the pre-pandemic u.s. digital economy that is a $200 billion business. that is a big number. we don't know how they get there. what is the return on that $10 billion and counting investments.

>> everyone is right. i agree with everyone that he is cheap. but, it is cheap on their old business. we don't know what their new business is going to be, or how that is going to be for the old business, he describes, jim cramer as a broad thing, that doesn't really tell anybody what it is. it sounds like he doesn't even understand what the meta-verse is going to be. then on top of it, he is not taking commissions from creators on facebook or instagram until 2024. so we don't even know, i think it was dan who said we don't know how this is going to be monetized in the future. when a stock is cut in half you want to be a buyer of that stock. no one knows what the future is, for facebook, so they are treating it to tim's point, like a growth stock so i think they are over there sku so i agree with it, i think it is cheap for a reason. >> you can think that it is cheaper here but part of the equation is whether or not you

think there is a place to put your money that will yield you better returns at this point in time, there is a value, a cost of the value of the capital that you have in facebook, and so when you take a look around, you can make the case, the evaluation case for other tech names as well. it might not be unclear. >> this is part of the issue for facebook is that there is an opportunity, and the timeline to transition for the meta-verse is something that i don't think we know and he gets back to eating while you dream but he gets back to also, the aggressive span, that i do think mark zuckerberg has tried to scale back the messaging has changed a little bit over the last quarter or two, they have tried especially in the context of slowing ad spend. we don't have to do all of this here, but i think that is the issue. facebook has been dead money, i pointed this out last night since 2017 we have had the greatest run ever in tech companies especially mega tech. faced book has underperformed the s&p where he you can't,

look at video, microsoft and you can pick a level on the chart and you can see that. i just think that the valuation is very exciting. i think it will stay cheap for some time because the transitions of big tech companies don't happen overnight. >> opportunity cost, thank you. that was the phrase i was struggling to find. karen, how do you think about that? >> you bring up the 10 billion. it is not just a one time 10 billion. it is ongoing. i don't know exactly what multiple the market is assigning to that but it feels to me like it is something really big. therefore, sort of dampening the overall value of facebook, the part of the business that makes it a ton of money. what is the right multiple, i don't know. this doesn't feel like it for sure, and you know, clearly it has been just a disaster this year, but i just think i look at it from right here. if i own none, what i buy it today? >> yes, i would.

>> a lot of digital companies have gone through web to come we will be pivoting as we think about what the new web looks like going forward over the next few decades or whatever. if you're going to start with a third of the planet's population on your platform, that is where you want to start. that is where you want to throw tens of billions of dollars because of this company has gone from basically $1 billion pre-ipo in revenue or whatever it was to $125,000,000,000.10 years later, i am sure you will figure out how to monetize new things. it is kind of silly to call it the meta-verse. there will be lots of different meta-versus. i think these will have multiple different meta-versus. they will monetize it like they have never monetized whatsapp. it just goes on and on and on. i didn't feel this way about the stock in the fall but it is really different here right now if you think expectations get low enough. >> i think the digital ad spen , we are so early in this and facebook is so far out, along with google, there is cyclicality and what is going on with the economy but when you think about the spend on

digital, we are still very early in, in terms of this is where the transition is all going. and so this is the part of the facebook story that i don't understand the discrepancy and why it is so cheap when in fact the core business, yes, it has a lot of cyclicality to it and there have been some margins that have come down. they have had to spend a lot on security and other dynamics but ultimately still very high margin business and we look at this country, made up of medium- sized businesses, they dominate that. so this is the stuff that doesn't reconcile with the stock. >> for more on what's ahead from meta-in the meta-verse, let's bring in the senior technology analyst, always good to speak with you, i found a note that you have a view of what you think metas opportunity is for the meta- verse but i am wondering if you actually heard that from the company itself. if you think they are doing a good job, elaborate what their vision, what their role is going to be in the meta-verse and how they will monetize that. >> i think we are all learning.

i think right now, they haven't articulated it well, they were in the early stages of this, and most of the analysis we have done are just our own thoughts of what this could do and clearly this will take time, this is a 3 to 5 year journey and it will be multiple phases, multiple vendors as they have called out in video, microsoft, a handful of leaders are going to be part of this, build out of this new world, so we can't just point our finger and say it is only just facebook, it is the whole industry that is trying to build this next chapter and is really just the next generation of the internet. it is not like all of a sudden we are going to show up and it is the meta-world. it is an evolution and so i think everyone is paying too much attention to this and at the core you still have a ad business, right now sentiment is probably the worst in internet and maybe the worst in

tech of all of the names we cover. >> your view on the meta-verse is that they will have hard wheel -- hardware sales, that they will have content sales, that they will have a subscription business, so the streams of revenue, this is in addition to the advertising because some of the advertising that is happening on the platform over time will migrate to the meta-verse. i am not sure what the incremental add dollar will be, to facebook ultimately, but are these other areas incremental revenue streams? >> they are all incremental. today is largely advertisement driven. and now you layer in hardware with oculus, you can have content that you can purchase inside as you are looking through different content, you can grab a piece of content and put it in your shopping cart. i think we will have more subscriptions over time, we have seen microsoft shift that way as well on the gaming business. i think subscriptions will be an element of this and then commerce. the analogy would put the oculus headset on which you pay for, you might be giving a golf

lesson with justin thomas, and you look at the swing and you pay to get that subscription from justin thomas if he does this for a group and there is a pack of golf balls from titleist sitting on the counter, you can grab that and put itn your baskecheck out. you can sit here and think. you can dream of the opportunities and things that they can do, to help up those on the pot for monetize this. this will take some time. we have dozens of examples, but right now, it is really ad driven and these are layered in parts of the business and ultimately when you think about as one of your presenters said about messaging, you know there is just a tremendous opportunity. if you are a small business and i want to buy something online, i want to chat with that individual, so why isn't there a subscription for small businesses on facebook that can help them transact and do service and sales. they bought customer which is a company that helps o that. why couldn't this turn into a broader subscription play over time. i think there is a lot of call

option over time that they can explore. if i can come up with these ideas, i guarantee they are coming up with way better ideas than me. >> don't discount yourself. karen has a very serious question but i have a dumb question, is the avatars golf swing getting better, that is meaning that your golf swing gets etter in real life? >> probably not. >> what are you paying for? >> that justin thomas golfs lesson is something that you probably already have. >> nobody knows how the meta verse is going to evolve. i look at the numbers and just like you i look at how cheap this thing is. i feel like it is two parts, there is the legacy business, that makes a bunch of money. what do you think is the penalty i guess, put on the stock, for this uncertain, and expend, that is coming over a number of years. >> yeah, i look at it now, they are spending between x and ask,

there are like 60 billion years. if they spend 10, 15, 20, they need to spend this. it will not all be in this mice bucket called meta-verse. i think it is a broad term. they are just trying to build the platform up to get used to it and get interaction up and later in these different services. i think there is a huge penalty right now. as i visit our institutional clients, facebook has the single or sentiment of any of the names we cover and we cover a lot of tech stocks at the firm here. it is by far, no one wants to touch it right now because we are in a pitstop and no one really knows, is this a hey, we are going to replace the chastity, is it just the wheels, no one knows how long the pitstop is and i have said this having covered tech for 20 years. microsoft went through this, 30 to 300, adobe, steve jobs, the internet was done and adobe was done, that was the example and that was $30, i think you want

to buy these times were you have great platforms that are in a transition, and we don't think that they have lost it. i don't know, i am still addicted to instagram and getting better targeting. advertisers are saying the same thing. the advertising is still the best in the industry. >> i thought i saw you scrolling through instagram. i have heard the parallel with microsoft , amazon had the aws service already, dented it at that time? it wasn't like the cloud was an unknown thing, that there was no blueprint for a path to profitability. >> f you take the microsoft analogy, we did a lot of early work and no one cared. all of the sudden it is the number two club player, that is the only number that anyone cares about. >> i think that there are hidden gems in this, yes, it is

early, yes, the advertising market can have the biggest downturn if the economy goes into a recession, this is the first area you will see numbers cut. and maybe numbers still have to be cut harder before we bridge the trough. i think when we are talking about 3 to 5 years out. we still believe in what they can pull off here. >> great to get your thoughts, thank you for joining us. okay, steve, the microsoft analogy, that is a pretty interesting one. wheel wall -- we all know what happened to that. >> it is interesting, but i think to karen's point, karen says she is willing to give zuckerberg the benefit of the doubt. they are not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, if a quarter or a third of the spend is going to take away from the legacy business. so i think tt is the way you have to think of it. they think investors are thinking that this is going to hurt the legacy business but just to give you a technical level, during the pandemic, the

march 2020 low, facebook was trading at $137. if you want to get along, i would probably use that. >> well, be sure to keep it tuned here for jim's full interview with mark zuckerberg, exclusively on that money. coming up, reporting results, we will bring you the numbers next, plus retail reduction, could coles be getting a lower bid? the potential new price tag on this retailer. we will bring you the details next, when fast money returns. i promise - as an independent advisor - to put the financial well-being of you

and your family first. i promise to serve, not sell. i promise our relationship will be one of partnership and trust. i am a fiduciary, not just some of the time, but all of the time. charles schwab is proud to support the independent financial advisors who are passionately dedicated to helping people achieve their financial goals. visit findyourindependentadvisor.com (mom allen) verizon just gave us all a brand new iphone 13. (dad allen) we've been customers for years. (dad brown) we got iphone 13s, too. switched two minutes ago, literally right before this. (vo) now everyone can get a new iphone 13 on us on america's most reliable 5g network. for every customer. current, new, everyone. to show the love. ♪ ♪ how's he still playin'? aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength. reduces inflammation. don't touch my piano. kick pain in the aspercreme.

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welcome back to fast money, shares of coal dropping hard after sources told c&c -- cnbc that they are lowering their bid to about $50 down from $60, i know karen is not happy about this. >> i feel like this is like a saturday night live spot, where like oh, okay, this crazy thing happened and now i will scream about it. this is ridiculous once again, although to be fair, i do think that this is more likely coming from the buyers side and the

sellers aside, why would they do that? they want to talk the stock down, get some shareholders scared and say i will take anything. i don't know how the board will respond to that but one other thing that i found, very unusual and disappointing was the notion that this management team would stay with the company. if it were purchased. that certainly makes you wonder, whose side are they really on, wouldn't they want to get on their own side which would make a better easier deal for the buyer meaning a lower deal for the buyer. enough talk already, you have to bring it home, next period for about three weeks, it would extend longer, that is fine. that happens. but, this is just getting ridiculous and just tell us again and again, how much value management has destroyed for shareholders by their delay, their ridiculous plan, the stock was close to that, i don't know that it was 50, it was in the low 50s i think.

>> 38. >> yes! that was stocks 38, and that is not as low as it will go. it will go lower for sure. i don't know who comes in after. i think there will be parties interested in buying stock. i think this company will be a target again of activism because of the terrible job that they have done for shareholders and misleading to shareholders with their ridiculous plans. that is kind of all of what i have to say about that today. >> let's do an alert here. homebuilder out with earnings after the top and bottom line, the conference line kicked off at the top of the hour. diana is here to take us inside those numbers. >> strong beats on both revenue and earnings per share in the company is reaffirming its full- year guidance despite the sharp rise in interest rates and the slowdown that builders are reporting, started just really a few weeks ago, jeff wrote in the release, sales are moderating from the exceptional levels the industry has experienced as buyers process

the impact of higher mortgage interest rates as well as inflationary pressures. we believe the flexibility of our will to order business model will enable us to navigate these changing market conditions. interesting that in the guidance it actually raised its previous estimate of the average home sale price to 500,000, previously it had been in a range of 492 500 but that is built to order model suggesting buyers might be looking for a break on price given obviously the higher cost now of borrowing. >> diana, thank you. steve, you have been in the space in the past, where are you now? >> i am not in this space. i can't be a buyer of the homebuilders if i think we are headed toward higher rates, which everyone knows that we are, we are already there and a recession that is looming over us, if all of the homebuilders are down basically the same amount, the headline today with j.p. morgan laying off people in their home mortgage division, we are going to see more down

stocks and i think this is not the worst, the worst is not over yet for the homebuilders and i wouldn't be a buyer of home depot or lowe's either. >> i was waiting for you to say the r word. >> this is the right time of day that fast money is on and our audience is a happy group. >> we heard about all of the layoffs in the mortgage industry from mortgage, specific mortgage lenders and specific banks, it seems like there is another drop in terms of the larger banks, that expanded to meet those huge volumes of mortgage applications that are now contracting. karen, what do you think, how do you think that impacts j.p. morgan, and bank of america for instance? >> wells fargo i think more than some others, i think it is not a gigantic part of the business for j.p. morgan but i do think that we talked about this a couple times, i do think that it is not that the fed wants this to happen but there is a necessary byproduct of them doing what

they need to do to squash inflation, and so i am not optimistic in the short term. >> can you believe katie holmes sticking by the forecast? >> i can because i think the housing market hasn't fallen apart yet. if you look at the numbers that we got earlier in the week on headlines, they were down a bit but we were at record prices, they are up 23%. there is a backlog that grew to 12,300 something houses. i am not worried about 22. i think the stock obviously down 41%, priced in a lot of that. they gave a second-quarter guide, which missed some of the stock traded down on that, we know the interest rate story, what is meant for mortgage rates, it has been almost a 1 to 1 correlation to homebuilders. i think their business is fine but i am worried about 23. >> we are just getting started here on fast money. here is what is coming up next. >> powell on the hill, telling

lawmakers the fed will fight inflation. is it enough to prevent a recession? our next guest says don't count on it. the details, next. plus, cosmetic caution. shares of revlon surging, even after a bankruptcy announcement. so, karen is digging into details. not even the best can hide. you are watching fast money. live, from the nasdaq market decide in time square. decide in time square. we are back, right after this. , like real time cgi. okay... yeah... oh. don't worry i got it! become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq

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he has committed to bringing down inflation but he acknowledged aggressive rate heights could help the economy into a recession. coming back on the hill in front of the house tomorrow, our next guest says it is almost a sure thing.

almost a sure thing, 99%, the question is, how deep, how long, what is your take? >> you make an important distinction because i do think the question is, is how long, how deep mild or not, rather than are we going to have one? and, i think it is possible that we have a mild one, but when you have a mild recession, that doesn't necessarily lead to a quick step back, as opposed to a tough short decline that usually leads to a short rebound. so i am not sure which is necessarily better here, but i think it is still inevitable that we do get negative rates of business activity when we look to the back half of this year and even to next year. i know some people think it is not until 2023, but i think we are either beginning on or just on the cusp of one. >> they were asked today about the possibility of a 100 basis

point hike and he didn't rule that out. do you think he is getting more hawkish? do you think he is trying to get the markets more comfortable with the fed that is much more hawkish than it was even just two months ago? >> i think it is his way of telling the markets that he is still very serious about trying to engineer a short slowdown in inflation and i say short rather than a slow rate of change on the decline of inflation. i don't think they go 100 at all, because i still think at the end of the day they will be very sensitive to the economic implications of what they are doing. and powell also acknowledged that yes, we could have a recession. but, that typically is what happens when the fed tightens issue ends up getting a recession. >> is powell basically voelker dealing in the aftermath of miller and ferns and as opposed to you know, powell dealing in

the aftermath of for nike and yelling? is the dynamic similar which is the psychological overcoming of inflation and what might be different is the structural labor market changes and where it is going to be really difficult to reverse the move in the labor market. how much of this is psychological from the fed at this point and how much of this is really what they have to continue to do? >> well, i think that they were embarrassed by what they have presided over, and i think for the sake of powell's reputation, he does not want to be burns. you make a point that is important about the structural change in the labor force and that that keeps inflation elevated and then that gets to okay, what happens next. let's just say that the economy is in a recession and inflation is only slowed to 3% to 4%. does that all of a sudden become tolerant by the fed rather than trying to push that down to 2? i actually think the answer will be yes, because they will

lean toward helping the economy and getting that inflation rate back and we keep in mind, it is an arbitrary number. i think right now, they want the direction of inflation to go down and to go down as quick as they can, without causing too much economic damage but i don't know how you can have one without the other. >> peter, great to get your thoughts, thank you for your time. >> thinks, melissa. >> peter, dan, i think that is an important thing that peter brings up. what if we are in a recession, they come out and they have reaffirmed their commitment almost at all costs. aggressively committed to price stability. that is where ties are handed a little bit. >> the other mandate is for employment. if the unemployment starts to take up, and they are in a different situation, he also reads that they have a lot of individual companies and he

takes a lot of things out. by reading his work and what he has had to say here, we are kind of just on the precipice of figuring out what a slowing economy looks like in a time where i don't think any investor that i know in our age group can remember a time where the feds are so tight because usually their playbook is to get easy or at least talk easier. i don't think that is a situation they can really do because again inflation will stay way above that target for a long time and unemployment is still very near those pre- pandemic levels. >> the unemployment part i think is interesting. we passed what we thought was maximum employment. i do feel like the fed does have some room. it is another painful byproduct of a process of trying to get a handle on inflation, because they could allow unemployment to rise a few percent, and i still think that they are fulfilling their mandate. >> that is sort of the point. one of the points that he was making in his opinion piece on bloomberg today, and that is

consumers and corporations are so strong, the good part of that is that we are very strong heading into the cycle to a potential recession. that means the fed will probably have to slam on the brakes harder, in order to dampen that demand. if people have all of the money in the bank and can still spend on whatever it is, prices will still stay high. >> yeah, and you know when you talk about a garden-variety recession, i don't really know what that is, quite frankly. and then throw in, china, and then throw in russia, so i can't assess what a garden variety recession looks like to start off with. what i can assess though, is that if peter is talking about the recession hitting in 2023, or on the cusp of it right now, the market is usually ahead by six months. you are going to see a buyable bottom way before we even talk about how this turned out. >> what history tells us about a bear market that is inflation caused as we have had three or

four of them is that they are 18 month events, and so that is the troubling part about where we are today. >> coming up, will the rise take a toll on exxon mobil. david joins us in just a few minutes to give us an inside look at his new documentary, exxon mobil at the crossroads premiering tonightt 00 p a8:m. the details, straightahead. first, be mindful, revlon announces bankruptcy, but karen says take some cosmetic caution. her fine print is up next. fast money is back in 2. ♪ ♪ alexa, play our favorite song again. ok. (mom allen) verizon just gave us all a brand new iphone 13. ♪ i only have eyes for you ♪ (dad allen) we've been customers for years. (dad brown) we got iphone 13s, too. switched two minutes ago,

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welcome back to fast money, shares of revlon surging over the last two days, retail investors seem to be betting that the bankrupt cosmetics giant will successfully emerge from chapter 11 just like hertz did last year. are traitors think you should tread carefully in this one, here is karen with the fine print. what should we, what should we worry about, karen? >> you have to look at the debt. the bankruptcies are always about that. we have a company that has an enormous amount of debt. let's just look at the most most senior, first lead, these

have the biggest, the first claims on the value of this company. this has gotten crushed, the 800 million and change of this particular tranche of that is treating and $.32 of a dollar. this whole thing trades at 252 million yet it should get another 560 million in a bankruptcy. way before the equity gets anything. there is tons of tranches of debt, all of them become senior to the equity, and yet, the equity today, trading, the last few days, this actually closed at $1.17 the day after they filed. traded as high as nine dollars. this is a short squeeze of giant proportions. i tried to borrow some stock today. it could trade up to anything crazy. just to see, is it available? no, it is not available. i see thousands of thousands of options trading. you have to just, i understand you have to play the greater theory and that may work. it very well could work but at the end of the day, i think

revlon equity won't be worth as much. one other thing to think about, there is nobody who wants to get out of this stock i think more than ron perlman, and there is nobody who is trickier at sort of subverting or working his way through a capital structure, if i were he, i would have a bank sees my shares and pay them off and say you know what, you were selling your shares, i don't know else he could sell them. you have to think, he wants to, and he has 46 million shares. he is the largest shareholder by a lot. the game seems rigged to me. maybe you can make money, great. have at it as dan would say. at the end of the day, probably don't be there. it will not be a good look. coming up, a rise in electric vehicles and how it could impact exxon mobil and how the company is navigating the shift. david will join us next with the details and we are diving

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matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire (mom allen) verizon just gave us all a brand new iphone 13. (dad allen) we've been customers for years. (dad brown) we got iphone 13s, too. switched two minutes ago, literally right before this. (vo) now everyone can get a new iphone 13 on us on america's most reliable 5g network. for every customer. current, new, everyone. to show the love. welcome back to fast money, president biden calling on congress to posit federal gas tax until september as gas prices hovered near all-time highs.

will push drivers to turn to elect vehicles? we asked darren woods that very question, in part of his documentary, here is what he had to say. >> we did some work very early on. i said let's just make the assumption that ultimately, every car in the world that sold his electric and ultimately, i think we can say by 2040, every vehicle in the world is electric. demand would be what it was back in 2013 and 2014 timeframe. we were's -- we were pretty successful. our view is look, that change will come at some pace. that is not going to make or break this business or this industry, quite frankly. >> it is hard to imagine in a way that you can sit here and tell me exxon mobil is not going to really take a hit so

to speak from a vast reduction in the use of gasoline on the planet. >> if you look going forward where the demand for oil is driving the gross and demand for oil, the chemical products which play a really important role in people's lives today. >> we are joined now with more by david. david, it looks spectacular, the documentary. some of the shots are just amazing. he is talking about other revenue streams basically to replace oil. it just doesn't seem feasible but the other streams would be so big even if you assume that electric vehicle still required to be plugged into a grid which is still going to be powered by nat gas which they do deal in. >> all true. all true. and yet, we were down doing that interview, melissa, in corpus christi at a giant chemical plant, and of course those are the building blocks for plastic, it is an enormous business for them already. over $7 billion in earnings last year, most likely going to be more this year. it still is hard to imagine

they would only get back to 2014 levels, of sales, if you were selling no gasoline. yeah, i questioned him on it, that is where they came out. obviously, they all believe there will be other revenue streams coming into the company. as you point out, there was still going to be potentially a need for natural gas, for example. even for oil, even though it is not used that heavily in the grid in terms of powering electric plants, and then there will be the efforts that they make and this is the focus of our documentary, in terms of reducing carbon in the atmosphere. carbon capture, hydrogen, biofuels. all designed to become significant producers, but profits of this company, by 2040, that here that he cited. >> david, it is karen, thank you for being on. really, it is fascinating. your question to him, i have a side question to that, which is to those other industries that

they are relying on to maintain their revenue, do those also have an interest in becoming electrified, or you know, you talk about the other that they have, will that replace some of their revenue, not necessarily expand it? >> yes, it will pick you are right. it will potentially replace some of the revenue although there are many people, it is like these are still masons efforts, they will spend $15 billion on these opportunities over the next six years. about 2.5 billion a year, but, some will replace and some will add. if they can come up with something in terms of direct air capture, for carbon, that will be a game changer. they certainly know how to get things out of the ground, they know how to put the back in the ground. that is what you need to do. these are vast efforts that they need to scale. and they haven't yet, but they talk about the fact that they

will. some will replace and some will be additive over time as well. >> quickly, david, i have to ask you for the viewers, benefit, the cases you had to go through in order for you to get onto that rig, it wasn't an easy task for you to actually pass the test they put you through to get onto that rig. >> yeah, you know, it is 33 years or so since the exxon valdez, it is something people remember about exxon. the company embraced safety, under lee raymond who took over not long after that terrible accident. they are serious about it. for me to get on that helicopter, i had to go through a full day of training. we had a great package of it, i think it was last week, but melissa, i wouldn't recommend it to anybody. being lowered into a pool, turned over and over, strapped in, underwater, holding your breath, having to climb out either a window or across a row and as much time as i spent in

a pool and a lot of you guys know i am a big swimmer but once you get turned over, you have no idea where you are. you are like where am i? is this my left? so, let's just say it is not something i ever want to have to do again. >> david, we look forward to watching this hour tonight. david, i would've drowned. i don't know how to swim. the exclusive look inside exxon mobil, exxon mobil at the crossroads premiering tonight, 8:00 pm eastern time. okay, let's trade here. xo in. >> i would think you have to make sales here. if you look at the chart and go back, you go back on an eight year chart. exxon mobil almost got up to the dollar from its july 2014 hi, and then faded. so, granted it has had an incredible year, but for the last five, six, seven years, it has done nothing. energy has done nothing.

so, i think you just say thank you, take your profit, and move on. >> these energy companies are making a lot of money right now but that makes them targets. of the administration. >> look, i think there has been a lot of noise and i think it will continue to be noise. we need every barrel they can get out of it. this is a distraction for these oil companies. chevron said this last night, they are going from probably one 50,000 a day, trying to get to 70 -- 750. they said they have 10 billion tours of new energies, i will just say this, i think these companies on so differently than they were, a 25% pullback in chevron off those highs, to me, is a place to be if you inn't and if you have missed, i thk this is a place to put it off. >> shares of gilead climbing higher over the past week. one options trader settling on a slowdown. we have the details, when fast money returns. everyone can get w iphone 13 on us

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welcome back, shares of gilead jumping more than 5% over the last week. one trader sees a bumpy road ahead for the biotech name.

tony has the action. tony? >> yeah, melissa. gilead is very active trading more than 2.5 times the average daily volume. one trade really stuck out. over 11,000 contracts of the september 62 1/2 calls were sold for about 2 1/2 dollars. this is a call sale that likely was tied to an equity position that has a market value of roughly $71 million but this investor clearly sees very limited upside here for gilead in exchange giving away all upside for just 4% of the stock value over the next three months. fairly neutral possibly bearish tnkook on gilead. >>ha you, tony. tune into the full shelf had a 5:30 pm. up next, final trade.

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(dad brown) we got iphone 13s, too. switched two minutes ago, literally right before this. (vo) now everyone can get a new iphone 13 on us on america's most reliable 5g network. for every customer. current, new, everyone. to show the love. time for the final trade. steve? >> xl energy up 32%, year to date, so any energy that you still hold. smoke him if you've got them. >> i am on the other side of

that trade. chevron, you're right at that uptrend from back to september but i think at 150, watch and hold this level, and by chevron. you don't need to do it tomorrow. >> dan? >> u.s. dollar. >> thank you exclusive with thek starts now my mission is simple, to make you money i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere. i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money. welcome to cramerica people make friends, i'm just trying to make you money my job is to teach and entertain. right now, the conventional wisdom says this market is long way from bottoming, even if you get the occasional good day like yesterday or a day like today, dow dipped 4