consumer confidence worry, even with discretionary spending worries, the airport in las vegas is reporting that may was the third busiest month in history with more than 4.5 million passengers, a lot of those international travelers. that's a big boost to the city. >> gaming and hospitality. and the brunettes close it out again, everybody thanks for watching "power lunch. "closing bell" right now. the major averages pulling back sharply near session lows after an early rally attempt the nasdaq is down more than 2.5% the most important hour of trading starts now welcome to "closing bell." i'm jon fortt. here is where things standing in the market right now you can see there the dow is down about 1.33%, a little more. the s&p down close to 2% the nasdaq faring worse of all,

about 2.66% down the russell a little more than 1.5. check out the biggest decliners right now on the nasdaq 100. datadog, mercadolibre, docusign, amd match group, all down. coming up on today's show, chip stocks getting hit hard today. we'll talk exclusively with the ceo of intel as the discussion over congressional funding of the c.h.i.p.s. act heats up. sara eisen will join us with pat gelsinger from aspen right now let's get straight to this sell-off. mike santoli joins us looking at today's consumer confidence report that sent stocks lower. mike. >> yeah, early rally attempts ran right into some pretty rough 10:00 a.m. data releases the richmond fed was weak. that inflamed the raw nerve about a manufacturing slowdown within the consumer confidence

survey, which itself was disappointing, consumers still in a dim mood with the outlook being pretty challenged is the expectations for one year forward inflation. this is a question they have asked for a long time. it gets the market back in this mode of worrying, if the fed is worried about consumer based inflation expectations usually not a market mover but jay powell cited the university of michigan inflation expectations in justifying his three-quarter point move look at instances when it did spike. 1990, 2008 this is a proxy for oil prices this is when oil was surging you also had recession scares. the actual inflation rate were nothing approaching what was expected here. in '08 it was under 4% in 2011 and '12, under 4%.

it's not predictive but it's embedded in expectations says the fed has more work to do. >> it's like in ghostbusters, they're supposed to enclosure their mind and not think of their greatest fear. if consumers expect it, that's going to fuel the possibility of inflation. >> that's the lodgic but it's the sense the feels it needs to get rates higher in a hurry and it's going to use this to buttress that campaign, even if they don't fully believe consumer behavior will change that much. >> we can blame ray for this one. mike santoli, thank you. let's get into this tech sell-off, one of the worst performing sectors joining us now, dan niles. you're not on the phone. dan, this is looking today like what you've been predicting for a while, a series of bear market rallies that fade. what are the characteristics here that you're looking at, maybe particularly in tech, to

see if your thesis is holding up >> i think nike this morning is a good harbinger of what you can expect during earnings season. so i was looking at it closely if you look at the forward numbers, we had a tweet on it this morning none of the things that they talked about were unknown. they talked about foreign exchange we all know the dollar is up a lot. they talked about china being an issue on the demand side, so, again, not a huge surprise there. we know cities are being locked down and they talked about supply chain costs and freight costs. again, no surprise there what's interesting is this morning the stock was obviously up 3% pretty early, and now it's down about 6%. and so you've seen this sell-off, even though everything that they talked about you knew ahead of time. the stock is already down 30% for the year and it's still getting hit and it's near a new

52-week low. so i think that gives you an idea of this whole mindset that the bad news is discounted and they're going to go up that worked over 13 years when you had a fed that was backstopping every move lower in the market the fed is now dealing with inflation. they're not going to backstop this in fact this is kind of what they want, which is demand slowing down to try to cool off inflation a little bit so the fed is the enemy for the first time. >> what about the snowflake upgrade today. it's still down 3% does that fall in that same bucket of shrugging off good news and telling you something about this market? >> absolutely. snowflake at the end of the day is still incredibly highly valued i think the mistake a lot of people are making is going, well, this sounds good today,

and that's true. but you have to remember you've heard about a lot of companies going ahead and either not hiring or starting to lay off people in the tech industry, where just a couple of months ago it was about, oh, we can't get enough people to fill all these jobs so if you are now starting to reduce your workforce or stop your workforce from growing, you're not going to need as many seats from a snowflake or other software company so that will show up later in the year the impact you're seeing today is more driven by consumer demand slowing down. what we should see later in the year is the business demand slowing down because the companies that serve the consumer are now -- >> that's what i've been wondering, dan, but this idea that consumers are spending -- consumers are going on vacation because, darn it, we deserve it, we've been waiting for this a long time. with these concerns about food prices, gas prices being high,

once we get back right around labor day, is there this big pullback i'm getting the credit card bill now we have to tighten belts and that ripples through the economy. what are the metrics we have to watch to see if that is playing out and those consumer concerns become business concerns. >> i think there's a couple of things intertwined here so we'll try to post a chart on this on our website. one of the things we look at is during the pandemic you saw this big surge in spending on goods so things like smartphones, pcs, lawn furniture, things that help you live at home when you couldn't go out. you saw this collapse obviously in services spending because you can't go to bars, restaurants, on vacation, et cetera but now you're seeing that's starting to reverse. so my feeling is you're going to see a lot worse numbers coming out of the companies that sell goods versus the companies that do services to let you go on vacation, because i think what's going to happen is you're going to have a really bad recession

but the services sector hangs in better than we are thinking because of that. >> but on the other hand, we got a tweet from an analyst about qualcomm and apple perhaps not being able to ditch qualcomm's modems in 2024 that stock is up better than 4%. and this is a company that was very bullish that last earnings roupgd round and how they're selling a lot of technology into industrial iot and so many companies looking to build technology into their manufacturing process. isn't that a potential signal in the other direction? >> i don't really think so whether apple replaces qualcomm in 2023 or in 2024, don't forget they replaced qualcomm in the application process that goes into the smartphone. eventually they'll get around to replacing the modem, which is what qualcomm is selling to them right now. so it may not be in 2023

i think it will be in 2024 don't forget, they replaced the microprocessor obviously, built their own. so this is just what apple does. they keep pulling more and more stuff in-house, which is good, because it helps them integrate all that with the hard waware t they have. but whether it's this year or next year, it's just a question of when. >> we will certainly see dan niles, thank you. >> thank you, jon. we'll have much more on this sell-off throughout the show up next, an exclusive interview with intel ceo pat gelsinger following last week's warning that intel's ohio factory mine delayed, the plan might shrink if the c.h.i.p.s. act money from congress doesn't come through soon you're watching "closing bell" on cnbc. when traders tell us how to make thinkorswim® even better,

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wow. i can do better. yes, you can. i can do better, too. break free from the big three and switch to xfinity mobile. welcome back check out some of the big chip names getting hit in the sell-off you see nvidia down more than 5%, amd down more than 6 intel faring a little better than the nasdaq overall, which is down nearly 3%. this after two positive days and three for the nasdaq now sara eisen joins with us a special guest from the aspen ideas festival sara jon, thank you very much with me is intel ceo pat gelsinger, we just got, sara great to be on the show again.

>> we've got to start with the market because the nasdaq is down another 3%. the semiconductors get hit every time there are these concerns about the economy and rising interest rates are you seeing that in your business >> it's a turbulent market, right, at the end of the day obviously the implications of inflation in the u.s. and tightening of monetary policy to address that the implications of ukraine and energy prices in europe and china, and their supply chains and covid. so you have all three major economies having some headwinds across the world obviously this is now blowing through the business so yeah, we think it's going to be a choppy environment for a period of time the markets reflecting that isn't particularly surprising. at the same time, i'm on a five-year journey as we're rebuilding this great company, rebuilding this industry as well we're not too worried about near-term swings, it's what we do for the long term. >> do you welcome softness in

the economy right now as a company that's been at the center of the chip shortage, which is driven by obviously supply chain problems but also this huge pickup we've seen in demand >> i think of it through two lenses one is everybody wants to be up and to the right forever but we always know that's never the case as we are rebuilding intel, this is a good time for me in the sense that, hmm, a little austerity here where we're redressing just helps me chamber of commerce a little more rapidly. with the significant shortages we've seen for multiple years and forecasted to last a couple of more years, a little reprieve in the market hopefully will allow us to catch up a bit more rapidly and get to a better supply/demand balance situation. >> so you created a lot of drama last week when you delayed the ground-breaking ceremony of the new chip plant in ohio what was the thinking there? what message were you trying to sending? >> first, we had never been public on the ground-breaking time but we were planning on

doing it in july and with that we were expecting c.h.i.p.s. to be done. >> the act, the legislation. >> that legislation that was passed over a year ago by the senate i'm just baffled, frustrated, anxious to see this come across the line as they're now in this conference process and without some certainty of that, as we said when we announced the ohio project, we can either go slow and small with the project and just do a couple of modules there this decade or we can go big and bold so it didn't seem prudent for us to be barreling as aggressively ahead and to sending a clear message to congress, we need this done. >> what is the latest? you're on the phone with lawmakers i imagine talking about this is it going to get done before the midterms, after the

midterms, ever >> i think obviously the house and the senate are now in conference process you know, there was too much added around the house bill, things that weren't directly related to competes and chips. we're sort of pulling that away and getting down to the core issues we were chatting with senator portman this morning we are at gametime in congress we need this done before the august recess. >> or else what? >> it does potentially fall into the fall season. obviously with midterm elections, boy, what's the politics of those? how does this play if in fact the house swings republican? does it get pushed into next year so our fear is if it doesn't get done before the august recess, it's just too easy for this to slide to late in the year or next year. that lack of certainty of funding just says i have to build my fabs elsewhere. just yesterday another fab

announcement by global wafers and their plans to be in texas but they said we need to get c.h.i.p.s. done. >> why do you guys need subsidies? why can't you pay for it yourself >> in many ways we make a lot of money in our business, but every other country in the world has invested in this industry. china, taiwan, korea, japan, india, european countries, spain, germany, italy, have all said we are going to invest in this if every other place in the world offsets the cost by 30 or 40%, my investments in the u.s. are not competitive. if i'm going to put that kind of capital at risk, and we've already gone to the market and said we are putting everything we can to build this industry for the second half of this decade i've taken my free cash flow negative for the first time in over three decades but if those investments aren't competitive in the world market, then they're bad investments if every other market in the world is saying, yes, we want your fabs and are ready to

incentivize you -- >> you've got to go elsewhere. >> the big one for us is we announced a project in germany despite the complexities of the european union, 27 nations coming together, their c.h.i.p.s. act started a year later than ours and is now at least six months ahead of ours so i'm going to see you euros be i see dollars. how do i turn to my board and my investors and say we are so nationally focused but germany is willing to money in a great ally, a great partner, they're ready to move aggressively we need that same energy from the u.s. congress right now. >> obviously huge economic issue. we want to see the jobs come to america. we want to see american manufacturing do well. the national security implications of quite serious. what is happening with china and

semi conductors, and china and taiwan, which manufactures more than 90% of advanced semi conductors in this world >> it's a precarious situation we have become very acutely dependent on one particular area of the world you know, the philosophy that we've espoused as we're working through this with leaders around the world is we need geographically balanced resilient supply chains. we don't want one place in the world where we're dependent, we want a nice distribution geopolitics has been defined by where the oil reserves are for the last five decades. every aspect of human existence is becoming digital and fabs, semiconductor support, everything digital this is more important where we build the fabs for the next five decades than where the oil reserves are the last five decades. if you think about our military, is cyber more important for our national defense think about an a.i. driven f-35

that when it takes off, its fleet of a.i.-driven drones go with it. do we want those chips coming from our leading edge manufacturing or dependent on foreign? this is just a no-brainer. it's a great economy it is great jobs and it's great for our national defense let's get it done. >> pat gelsinger, thank you very much making a clear statement there, the ceo of intel. tomorrow on "closing bell" i'll have highlights from charlie scharf it will be really interesting to see if he's more in the brian moynihan optimistic side of the economy or the jamie dimon side of the economic outlook. we'll have that for you tomorrow. >> looking forward to more and more great stuff from you, sara. give pat my best as well what's not getting the best today is the markets let's check on those the dow is down more than 450

points, about 460 at this moment the s&p off almost 2%. the nasdaq off 2.75% coming up, we're going to talk to former treasury secretary jack lew about the odds of a recession in america and what the fed can do, if anything, to stop it from happening and as we head to the break, check out some of today's top search tickers on cnbc.com the 10-year yield again having the most interest followed by tea,sl nike, the s&p 500 and the dow. we'll be right back. ♪ dream, dream ♪ accenture. let there be change.

welcome back let's check out today's stealth mover. farfetch shares of the online luxury fashion retailer under a lot of pressure after ubs downgraded the stock to neutral from buy, cut the price target to $10 from $13 citing risks of a recession. and still ahead, bank stocks doing better than the broader market in this sell-off

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the major averages cutting earlier gains after consumer confidence missed estimates this

morning as investors watch each data point for signs of say slowdown earlier john williams and ark invest cathie wood took opposite sides in this recession debate. >> recession is not my base case right now. i think the economy is strong. clearly financial conditions have tightened and i'm expecting growth to slow this year quite a bit relative to what we had last year and actually slow to 1 to 1.5% growth for the year. >> inflation has been a bigger problem but i think that it has set us up for deflation. i've been listening to your program. i heard ken langone talking about be in recession and jeremy siegel saying we think we're in a recession. >> so are we or aren't we? joining us now is former treasury secretary jack lew. secretary lew, thanks for being with me today. first defining terms i know there are these textbook definitions of a recession, but

what's the definition that really matters right now and how likely are we to be in one by the end of the year? >> it's good to be with you, jon. i think the technical definitions of recession are less the issue than where is the economy going to be going. when you have high inflation and the fed raises rates, you know that the goal is to slow economic growth and to slow the economy down the question is, can you hit a soft landing i think what we should expect is it's going to be a bumpy ride. whether that becomes a technical recession or not is a separate question from is the fed making its policy trying to control inflation while trying to avoid a deep economic slowdown i give them a lot of credit for having been patient, waiting until the data was clear that we had strong growth coming out of the covid recession. one can argue whether they should have moved a month or two

earlier, but the point is nobody knew back at the beginning where covid was going, what the period of adjustment for supply chains would be, and certainly nobody knew that the war in ukraine was going to break out going forward, i think it's equally uncertain exactly what's going to happen day to day much less week to week. this past week we've seen some signs of inflation letting up in some of the commodities, things like wood and metals but we're seeing it bounce around still so when you ask who's right, i tend to give a lot of credit to the fed for doing its very best to avoid a deep decline. >> sure. >> does that mean we'll have a technical recession? i don't know. >> given all that, though, how important is the consumer expectation that inflation is going to be stubbornly high, right? because if consumers expect it, then that in a way kind of fuels it, which in a way makes the fed's job that much more difficult, doesn't it?

>> look, i think that they moved in a pretty dramatic way at this last meeting and it sent a powerful signal that they're serious about inflation. i think the expectation is a big part of it and sending that signal may well have even more of an impact on psychology an it does on rates. i think there's a problem when you look at what markets are looking for, which is to know today exactly where things are going to be a week, a month, a year from now and the longer view what the fed is looking at and the public is looking at, where are we going over the next year? and i personally believe that we're going to see inflation letting up it may or may not get back easily to the 2% bound they may or may not have to move a little harder. but i would think given the concern now about recession, it underscores the importance of

giving the fed the freedom to move based on the way data is coming out it's painful to have inflation it's painful to have a recession. it's very hard to fight inflation without raising the risk of economic slowdown. >> i keep wondering as we look at the markets and we look at data how much we need to be parsing the fact that a lot of americans really living in different economies. there's the economy for people who own stocks and are trading stocks and maybe own a home. there's the economy for people living paycheck to paycheck and putting $20 of gas in their car to get to work because they can't afford to fill up, right >> yeah. >> to one group of people it feels like we're in a recession already. another group of people can sort of debate it so what are the main metrics that we need to watch the next several months to see if we're all going to be feeling worse before too long. >> that's a really good question the good news is coming out of the covid recession, family balances, household savings are

in a better place for a lot of families for a lot of families, while it's worrisome to draw down the reserves we built in, there's a response to some of the turbulence we are going through. that doesn't extend all the way down through income levels as you get lower to lower middle class and barely above paoverty level incomes, it's very painful. i've been arguing congress still needs to act on things pending, like making the child credit refundable going forward so families trying to keep food on the table aren't suffering unduly, particularly during these challenging days i hope we can reach a point of some bipartisan or at least unified democratic response so that in a legislative package that reduces the deficit and helps fight inflation, there's also the room to provide some

relief to families that are feeling it the worst. >> and this data that we got, the consumer sentiment data, certainly shows how they're feeling it former secretary jack lew, thank you very much for your thoughts. >> good to be with you. here's where we stand in the markets right now. still near session lows. the dow is down more than 435 points the s&p off nearly 2%. the nasdaq is off about 2.7% nike, the biggest loser in the dow today. up next, the big picture on what nike's disappointing revenue guidance says about the state of consumer spending. you can listen to "closing bell" on the go by following the "closing bell" podcast on your favorite podcast app we'll be right back.

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before you invest, investor.gov. nike shares tripping over their laces today even after beating estimates on the top and bottom line. sara eisen has the big picture on what nike's earnings mean for the market and the economy >> hi again, jon that's right, today's big picture is on nike and really what its earnings report says about the state of the consumer. and the answer, it's not all that bad as the stock may suggest right now, which it's down more than 6%. it's actually pretty bullish nike executives didn't talk directly about the consumer but there were constant references on the earnings call to the strength of the brand in the face of the headwinds that nike

is facing like chinese covid shutdowns, the stronger u.s. dollar, and supply chain headwinds. here's the cfo, matt friend, on supply and demand in the key market, the u.s. >> inventory supply is normalizing against a healthy market across north america and we've seen three consecutive quarters now where consumer demand has significantly exceeded available inventory supply >> consumer demand exceeding supply also we can point to 18% growth in digital as a promising sign that demand appears to be holding up relatively well despite the challenges nike is projecting a double-digit percentage boost in revenue for the new fiscal year which suggests management expects a solid recovery in the face of all of these headwinds which are pressuring sales and profits now and in the current quarter. the ceo and cfo on the call did say we are closely monitoring

consumer behavior amid rising interest rates and inflation, jon, as we all are but so far if you read into the commentary and the forecast, it does suggest that they see at least the nike consumer holding up relatively well despite everything else they're dealing with. >> yeah. well, we'll see what happens with the stock sara, thanks up next, a top analyst on whether investors should be betting on the banks after their latest dividend hike announcements. that story plus qualcomm spiking, snowflake melting, when we take you inside the market zone this is all your teams working as one. this is the system you built, creating a lasting impression. this is how. airtable.

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we are now in the "closing bell" market zone. cnbc's senior markets commentator, mike santoli, is here to break down these crucial moments of the trading day plus steve kovach on qualcomm and apple and piper sandler's jeff rey hart on the banks. stocks moving lower on weaker than expected consumer confidence data. mike, what are you watching? >> we've been talking for a couple of days about how this bounce we got in the market still fit within the parameters of yet one of these relief rallies that hadn't really gotten traction and taken hold and carried the market to a full recovery so far that remains the case we're trading below those levels that define this as more than a bounce that being said, all we're doing is operating within friday's trading range. remember that huge jump we got on friday, testing those levels. obviously the fact that the market got more kind of weak

manufacturing data this morning, yields going up, oil picking up on the china reopen, it undid a little bit of the tension release we had gotten in the past couple of days. so still a familiar pattern, still a lot to prove. >> yeah. and some things to prove -- the u.s. economy on chips. sara eisen sat down with intel's ceo, pat gelsinger, earlier this hour do we have some sound from that? >> with the significant shortages we've seen for multiple years and forecasted to last a couple more years, a little reprieve in the market hopefully will allow us to catch up a bit more rapidly and get to a better supply/demand balance situation. >> but perhaps crucially, mike, what he was really talking about is not enough help from the u.s. government to fuel the future, including the economy. that's an issue. >> without a doubt an issue in terms of him feeling as if

there's an insufficient appreciation of the strategic need for congress to help out in terms of these he did also mention and this is not a secret but he's taken intel into a free cash flow negative position. this was a company that wasn't growing much but throwing off a lot of cash for years. he's betting his needs to plow it all into the future so any help whe can get in that regard. it makes the stock less cheap because they are consuming so much of their cash obviously in parts of the market they believe will grow faster than what they have right now. >> i thought it was so interesting that he would say i'm taking the company cash flow negative to make these big investments but you can't expect me to do it in a country that's not going to help me out as much as, say, germany is going to of the so being a good steward of cap capital, capital preservation, not just something that investors watching these last

11, 12 minutes are thinking about. >> no, without a doubt the stakes are relatively high even if the amounts of money that might come intel's way in tham terms of these projects isn't really going to define whether they'll make it or not, but you'd want the backstop nonetheless. >> mike santoli, thank you now, qualcomm, that stock jumping after an analyst said qualcomm will remain the exclusive supplier of 5g modems for apple's iphones. steve, it's always guessing what apple will endi up doing with their devices but it is a big deal whether they'll design 5g modems in house. >> what people are getting rattled about is apple's development of this modem may

have failed. we were just talking about intel. apple actually bought intel's failed 5g modem business back in 2019 for a billion dollars set up an office in qualcomm's own backyard in san diego to develop their own 5g modem with the hope when their deal with qualcomm ends in 2024 or so, they'll use their own homegrown chips. now, if they're having trouble making that in time, they'll have to go right back to qualcomm after this deal ends and qualcomm will have all the power at the negotiating table and can make more money per device that apple sells. >> mike santoli, what does this really mean from an investor perspective. people are used to an integration story with apple at the same time, though,

perhaps it shows if there's something to this, there are still moats in technology. >> it's interesting. the apple investor base seems leak they're happy with the less detail, the better just produce the cash flow, share it with us in terms of dividends and buybacks be predictable make sure the upgrade cycle is clicking the way it should add services it's less about what is the specific defensible technological ip that apple can bring to bear at every turn in the process. >> all right thank you, steve, for bringing us that. now from chips to enterprise tech shares of snowflake are lower today despite an upgrade from analysts at jeffries taking it to a buy on strong fundamentals, multiple compression and plachl expansion. here's what frank slootman told me about spending levels from his customers. >> we're not really picking up

signals of distrust in our constituents here. it doesn't mean other people aren't seeing it but i can only react to our experience. the type of things of what we do are still highly prioritized in enterprises. you're seeing surveys just conducted by jpmorgan and other people that the spending intentions are still incredibly high so we're not backing off of anything at this point in time we see no reason to. >> stocks falling on what should be good news of an upgrade, kind of bullish commentary from the ceo. yes, it's not cheap but it's way down from where it was is this a similar effect what we've been seeing with nike today, mike? >> do a degree, jon, yeah. i don't think anybody believes that snowflake is really a slave to the macro environment they have this better mousetrap story going. 50% revenue growth expected in next fiscal year on top of this one. we're only talking about a couple of billion in revenue

right now and plenty of room to grow it's really about is this the moment to pay up for it today when it's really not something you're seeing in the way of tangible financial results yes, it's way down yes, from 100 times sales to maybe 15 times next year's revenue in terms of market cap that's nobody's definition of inexpensive, which is why on a bad market day when the nasdaq is down, snowflake more likely to get caught up in it or not. >> and yet if you were going to make a short list in technology, particularly enterprise technology of the next companies to build out a platform and become a hundred billion dollar company, snowflake would be on that list. in a way this tells us something about the investor appetite to take that swing, right >> without a doubt the investor appetite is bird in hand type investments where they don't really have to worry about waiting. there's not that much about how many things have to go right or

how much time is it going to take for the opportunity to be realized. >> all right well, from software to hard cash banks mostly outperforming after they announced dividend and buyback plans yesterday. joining us now is jeff hart from piper sandler. are banks a good place right now based on interest rates an those results what we saw banks are doing with dividends >> yeah, i think banks are a decent place to be within banking there are some really good places to be i'm a fab of your larger scale employers, the b of as, the jpmorgans. not only do they have tailwinds which help banks in general, but they got the scale to gain market share by spending more on technology, spending more on marketing while still having wider profit margins the stress test results on average were in line with our expectations, though there were some better and some worse

the more capital markets players fared better than your money center banks, b of a, citi and jpmorgan dividend increases were better than we were expecting i think what's really weighing for bank stocks right now is what's going to happen the next couple of quarters what's going to happen with credit are rates going to keep going up not to say that capital doesn't matter, but banks are very well capitalized. i don't think people are losing sleep over bank capital at this point. >> okay. so what's the smart spending that a bank at scale is going to do over the next year or two, assuming that this economic environment continues to be challenging, when you say the scale players have an advantage. where are they going to buy so that they're going to zoom ahead faster than the rest. >> some of the things i think they can do and we're seeing guys do it, they're spending more money on marketing. it's an opportunity to get more clients because they can spread

it out over a wider base when it comes to technology, the finteches were taking share from the banks for a while. if you can stay on the cutting edge curve, that's going to help you a lot as far as getting stronger when you look at jpmorgan citing 10 to $15 billion a year investments, it's hard for much of any other bank or fin ttech keep up with that. >> mike santoli, what do you think, are we moving into an either or scenario in the fintech and challenger banks, et cetera, versus the scale players, at least where investors are concerned, where maybe the tide shifts? is that what we're seeing in the tape so far? >> most of the market value has really come out of, i would say, the leading finteches like paypals and squares where it seems as though they could race ahead. right now the traditional banks to a large degree are trading as if they're captive to the

outlook for recession or no recession. that binary call or what happens to credit trends within that, that seems to be what matters. but if it's going to be a stability and dividend yield type story, with jpmorgan, its dividend yield rarely has been higher in the last 15 years than it is right now and when it has, it was in crash type scenarios in 2011 and 2020 so there's some safety margin being built into some of these stocks if you don't get that big economic backsliding that everyone is afraid of. >> jeff, does blockchain even matter anymore from a technology and investment perspective because i wonder if in a way this crypto story plays out like open source did, where the big players in industry ending up adapting it to their own needs and using it to succeed. is that part of the investment that scale players are going to make >> i think it is a part of it. when you talk about blockchain, there's two different pools you they think of.

the pure blockchain technology i think will become more and more important and the banks will participate. the other side is cryptocurrencies and is it a new cash or not. that remains to be seen. that's where we're seeing a lot of the pain so far when you look out five or ten years, settlement, processing, i think blockchain will be a big part of it and the jpmorgans of the world are spending on growth leak nobody else. >> all right we'll see if they can ending up winning that race. jeff hart from piper sandler, thank you. we've got a little less than two minutes to go in the trading day. mike has more on the market internals today. mike, what do they look like inside >> just like the indexes, jon, they have eroded, started out positive but now if you look at the new york stock exchange, volume split roughly 3-1 downside volume to advancing volume not really a washout it's mostly the mega caps t dragging the s&p and nasdaq down

i talked about the bird in the hand take a look at the etf called cowz it's called the cash cowz etf. great performer year to date compared to apple, it shows you people were willing to give the big premium to a growth story like apple the volatility index has perked up but not a dramatic response to today's sell-off. in the 28s it's been migrating from the mid-20s to mid-30s so not decisive. uneasy, but not panicky, jon. >> mike, thank you now as we head toward the close, perhaps the biggest casualties today are the stocks that needed hope i'm looking at names like coinbase, which is down more than 8.5%. peloton also down 9% affirm, we were just talking about finteches, down 9.5% the major averages closing near

session lows s&p down more than 2%. the nasdaq just ticked down a little over 3%, but we'll see where things settle out. there's always something to speak of in the final seconds. and then thedow, down about 49 points we will see where that settles but for now i've got to turn it over to my friend carl quintanilla. it's "overtime." jon, thanks. welcome to "overtime." i am carl quintanilla in for scott wapner you just heard the bells but we are just getting started in a few moments we'll hear from scott minerd we'll get his take on the volatility and the one thing hees watching to declare an all clear for the market le begin with our talk of the tape today that bear bounce breakdown stocks did tumble, about a 900 point swing to the downside for the dow. the nasdaq's worst day since june 16. amd,